@ProfMTH Homosexuality is a great example. Is homosexuality logical or reasonable? Is it scientifically explainable? Should we disallow it because it seems contrary to biological reproduction? It seems like atheist would have to be anti gay. Homosexuality transcends logic reason and science. Your logic seems to fail when applied to your own existence. irony
which homosexuality is the right one? They can’t all be right…lo
There are many who profess to be Jews but are of the Synagogue of Satan. (Remember the first 'christians' were Jews), and in this context you might supplant the word "Jew" for Christian, or Believer. The TRUE 'church' even though spread throughout many denominations, are few and far between and the call has come for them to "Come out of Babylon". The sorting and gathering has started, so yes, Yeshua's prayer has been answered... I know and recognize my true brothers and sisters in Yeshua. :)
@ProfMTH They believe that Yeshua is the Living Word of Yahowah who came in the flesh and stood in our place to receive the punishment meant for us, so that we may become righteous in Him. They believe that mere lip service is not going to save them, but that they need to turn away from wickedness and seek to do the Will of Yahowah. They know the flesh is weak, but that we need to resist evil on a daily basis and live to show fruit of love, temperance and deal fairly with everyone.
@GodHasNOMother Oh, I suspect there are LOTS of Christians whom you would not regard as your "true brothers and sisters in Yeshua" who would say they adhere to all of the above. BTW, is this group of Christians you regard as the "real" ones recongized as such by the world?
@ProfMTH If they adhere to the above they are my brothers and sisters... Our Lord sets the standards of what is right and wrong, not we. If they say they adhere to these standards, and do not, then their fruit will show that they are lying. The world does not recognize us, because we are not of the world...
@ProfMTH They also believe that He rose from the Dead and is sitting at the Right Hand of Yahowah from where He will come to Judge all mankind on the Day of Judgement. That He is the Melech Ha Tzadik (Melchizedek) The Righteous King Priest who intercedes for all of us who believe in Him and call upon His Name, by Yahowah. That He is the First Fruits of the Harvest, and that He is the Only Shepherd who's voice we acknowledge... We call NO man Rabbi.
I could believe jesus was an alien much easier as it would make more sense an alien race sent someone to help these backwards fools back then , however that time period was full of crap as it is now ! so stay with SCIENCE !
Seeing as how John is the latest gospel included in the Bible to have been written, I think the most likely interpretation of this passage is that the author of the gospel is putting words in Jesus' mouth in the hope that the sectarianism that was already widespread in his own day would be stopped. I.e. This passage is anachronistic.
@seleroan Do you honestly believe that the ONLY Apostle that was spared death by torture and entrusted with the Revelation of the End Times would 'put words in the mouth of Yeshua'?! And then have the chutzpah to write that if anyone adds to the Word of G-d to him will be added the plagues of Egypt, and to anyone who removes from the Word of G-d, will have his name removed from the Book of Life? (Shooting himself in the foot?) NO Apostle of Yeshua would do that....
@seleroan Do you honestly believe that the ONLY Apostle that was spared death by torture and entrusted with the Revelation of the End Times would 'put words in the mouth of Yeshua'?! And then have the chutzpah to write that if anyone adds to the Word of G-d to him will be added the plagues of Egypt, and to anyone who removes from the Word of G-d, will have his name removed from the Book of Life? (Shooting himself in the foot?) NO Apostle of Yeshua would do that....
I think you're really, really stretching John 17 there. It is not as though Jesus is creating an exclusive list of qualities which his followers must have to be valid. I don't see that as the plain, most clear meaning of that text. And I don't know any commentator who does.
Your point about Catholicism doesn't hold water. Roman Catholics, Maronites, Syriac, etc, all are in unity with the pope. They only differ in externals and some practices which are interchangeable. An analogous situation, to some extent, would be the differing departments of the executive branch: all working for the same institution, with generally the same goal (administration/execution of validly exec'd laws) but with different outward appearances.
@ysopuatmube this is retarded logic. The god you chose is a violent and vengeful one, and the bible says that you need to have faith and love god to be saved. Doing it to save your sorry ass will do nothing.
God of the Bible is logical because his demands it fits into the law of nature including faith & love. Imagine every mom wasnt faithful or loving to her child, we will not be here now. The sufferings also fits in our nature: no pain no gain. And more important He warns the world is not a nice place.
Why war & disaster? The modern wars are much worst and the worst disasters are still coming, God said so. Explain...
Ok. Explain me what did u mean by "this is retarded logic." in your previous post.
I thought you are responsing on my comment ealier about God of the Bible is the most logical choice (= if there is a god then he should be one like what the bible describes).
Go to any place and ask any body: who is jesus. You will find nobody who answerd: what is jesus?
Billion people will say that Jesus is from God or at least He is a prophet. Those billions are including those living the past centuries. Interesting, right? Not many people can achieve such thing. I mean, not everyone who said: I will become famous, will become famous.
@Zacharia8v3 You have posted and reposted the same shit multiple times. I've answered your questions. You're done. Blocked for spamming and wasting my time.
I think Jesus is saying that IF christians were unified then the entire world would know that god sent him. Being that christians are NOT unified, the world doesn't believe Jesus was sent by god. I don't see this as a refutation.
@KayBeeEee1983 "I think Jesus is saying that IF christians were unified then the entire world would know that god sent him. Being that christians are NOT unified...."
atheism refuse itself also.....they are saying everything is by coincidence...
wel then their fuckin dumbass homo lives are coincidence also...
typical weak dumbass sheeple like most of americans blame everything on coincidence.. ..illuminati is getting in your homoass without you even know it..
are you part of illuminati propaganda?illuminati paperboy?..they will deny you also bitch.
@nuketherothschild666 that doesn't even come close to making sense lol. Atheism is the belief that science has the answers, if it is science, there are no coincidence's, there is always an explanation. I also have the feeling you don't even understand who the illuminati is. Especially for the fact that atheists have nothing to do with it, and your spelling, how you type and just your thought process makes my eye's sear of pain.
great job. all those different denominations in christianity! how can anyone claim they have a true message. some believe he's the son of god, some believe he's both. the absurdity is endless. the same in islam. they have over 500 sects! yet they all claim the knowledge of salvation. if people can get hundreds to thousands of different concepts from the same book, obviously something is wrong. i know the reason, but it's still funny to hear so many excuses.
Catholics and Protestants fought a long war in Ireland over their very obvious DIS-unity. They were not "One" with anything. Since the Reformation, just about every country in Europe had a civil war that involved them fighting over whether Catholicism or Protestantism should reign supreme. Thankfully, Europeans came to their senses and have mostly dumped the religion completely. Hopefully, they can reject that other psychotic cold sore that approaches them -- Islam.
Jesus' doctrines are whatever came out his mouth. With regards to uniformity, a lack of it CAN lead to a break in unity but in most cases I don't think so.
@ProfMTH No, don't switch my words around. Theology is not the same as belief. I said salvation is not dependent on theology. However, if an individual holds a belief that contradicts following Jesus then I would question his salvation.
Only God not this man knows who are the"ones" to be "one" the irony this guy desires eternal sousl to be more inclined to his prophecies. He is a prophet of doctrine to hate christianity what it stands for. He actually enpowers himself in these videos. He will not meet the spaghetti monster for judgment But a Holy God of all possiblity.The deception is if God were God He would stop this.No! some are reserved for greater judgment. They are given liberty for a longer rope.God loves these videos
A nice bumper sticker. Alas, as with most bumper stickers, it doesn't really have much substance. Tell me, MrStevenJake22, is, just for example, the Catholic-Protestant split in Christianity a mere lack of uniformity? How about the split between trinitarian and non-trinitarian Christians? The Calvinist-Arminian split? I could go on, but please address those 3 examples. Thanks.
@ProfMTH Our salvation is not dependent on our theology. On judgment day, Gods not going to say "ok Catholics on my right and Lutherans on my left". No he's going to say "those who are my disciples on my right and everyone else on my left". Jesus said those who follow Him will be saved, therefore it is those who are his disciples who are unified. Theology has nothing to do with it.
@mrstevenjake22 "I cant really answer that since Im not God."
That's odd. In your previous comment you were quite firm in your conviction that "salvation is not dependent on our theology." Now you're saying you can't really answer because you're "not God." Which is it: salvation is independent of what one believes OR you don't know because you're not God?
"His doctrines"
Who has "His doctrines"? Calvinists or Arminians? Catholics or Protestants? Trinitarians or non-Trinitarians?
@mrstevenjake22 Sorry, Mr Stevenjake - you didn't answer the question. You are the worst, creepiest kind of apologist. Go back and study your disgusting bible and mumble your prayers to your ill-imagined god!
@ProfMTH I'll take a stab at it - Jesus answers this question, and a few others, in Mt 7:22-23. Here He distinguishes between those who hold their own worthiness up for consideration, based on their WORKS, and He replies with the ONLY qualification necessary, namely, predestination. You are either known by Him from before the foundation of the world (can't wait to field comments...) or you are responsible for your own sins before a holy, just, and angry God. Comes in handy to read the WHOLE
@ProfMTH ... Bible without prejudice - a difficult task, to be sure. But outside the proper framework - Calvinism - one may never figure out that, 1.) one's very nature is evil, and 2.) that "free will" is a myth. You are NOT free to act as you will; your essence is at enmity with God, and absent the "quickening" work of the Holy Spirit, you are DEAD already in your sins and trespasses.
@ProfMTH But one thing you misunderstand is that HE reveals Himself to whomever He wishes, and that is the ONLY way to know Him. Calvinism holds that due to our "total depravity", we as humans are wholly unable to even seek Him; those who pretend to are really just trying to impress themselves and are merely acting out of and feeding their own pride... which is the most primeval of sins. In Mt 7:22-23 we find those who even recognize Jesus' lordship (we call them "Christians") but who list their
@cheagan so what about all the people that said that they prayed for god to reveal himself and he did and we should do the same? Clearly religion fails and you can't get a damn hint of it. You guys can't agree on anything and demand to be taken seriously, it's pathetic.
@linkuei83 I don't demand any such thing. I have a mandate to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ; if it sticks to you, then you know you're saved. That simple. If not, then if I were you I would invest in some asbestos underwear.
@linkuei83 I can't speak for "all other denominations". Paul says that if anyone preaches "a different gospel" other than the one he illuminates, and that his hearers had already received, they are "accursed". I have spent the better part of 17 years studying the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the interest of getting it "right"... what have you been doing all this time? My point is that it MATTERS to me, and that is due to the presence of the Holy Ghost in me. I have left a few
@linkuei83 ...churches in the past, never feeling as if I owed them any loyalty, because of doctrines which I discovered in the course of time that were antithetical to a Biblical understanding of the Gospel. Essentially it is a treaty, between God and humanity. Some denominations remove elements from the Gospel; others add to it. And by virtue of this, they have abrogated it and nullified it. It is really very simple.
@ProfMTH ... litany of good works as evidence of their "salvation". Surely they qualify for eternal life! Yet all along, it was those whom Jesus FOREKNEW who were PREDESTINED to be saved. NO ONE is deserving of God's forgiveness, yet He deigns to grant it to a select ("elect") few, in order "that he might display the riches of his grace in Christ Jesus". Sadly, most Americans cannot get over the hump of "free will", and cannot admit their own depravity. Thank you, Oprah Winfrey.
You can't bring up one issue wherein one Christian sect doesn't disagree with some other one. Either Jesus is telling 38,000 sects 38,000 different things, or 38,000 sects have 38,000 opinions. Please use Occam's Razor.
This Video doesn't provide evidence that what Jesus said was in error, only SUPPORT for what else Jesus said in other passages!
"For MANY will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive MANY."Mat24:5
Those who are truly called by God & born of the Holy Spirit ARE one just as Jesus & God are one, but MOST who claim to be Christians (probably about 99.999%) are LIARS & NEVER KNEW HIM!
Those who truly know Christ are very FEW & will be known by their FRUIT (whether they obey God)!
I'M ELVIS PRESLEY.... Just because I said so it doesn't mean I am, THANK YOU for laying it so plainly!!! Those names you mentioned carried the title but they do not follow the MANUAL therefore they cannot be those who they claim to be keep reading the MANUAL and you will see that not all who claims to be a Christian is a Christian
Is the manual clear enough that all can plainly tell which of the many thousands of denominations claiming to be Christian are actually Christian?
Then why can groups like the Roman Catholic church claim that salvation comes from belief plus works - or sometimes even just works - while Calvinists assert in no uncertain terms that it is faith alone as sent from above that signals salvation - and not any work of man?
Are both Christian? Calvin and Renaissance popes would say no.
The manual is clear enough. God is not stupid to do not say what means and He means what He says.
However man is so arrogant that he believes that God needs an interpretation as if He doesn't know what He says. 1 Pet. 3:21 says that baptism saves us and John 3:16 says that he that believes shall be save this verses is taken out of context because in the same chapter Jesus mentions baptism to ENTER to the Kingdom of Heaven the believing in things He already spoke of. John 3:1-7
@amoxtlacatl The reason they both are correct is because in Greek they don't use "a" or "an" because in that case it would have been translated as and the word was with a God
The bible requires READING not interpretation if you read it you will understand it, that's why I call it a manual. Manual are not to interpret but to follow, and those pearls that you talk about are not but merely places that needs more reading as a whole not as a part
Reading the faith/works exegesis you posted, a traditional intolerant Calvinist might have no trouble saying you are wrong, possibly branding you a heretic and maybe even in liege with Satan (as comical comic evangelist Jack T. Chic does with the Roman Catholic Church to this day).
Thank you so much for your comments, there is no disabusing made so far. I don't have all the answers, I am just a guy who doesn't have a Phd. But I like to know what I read. There are many great and good man in many denominations who teach wrong things, this is because interpretation. See Mahatma Gandhi said once I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ, because of the way one interpreted the other Jesus taught never interpreted
How many divergent groups are there around reading, say, a computer or car manual?
Has it ever dawned on you that if the Bible were -as you say- such a clear manual, there would be no divergent interpretations or readings and all who follow it would agree on all points???
Yet this is not so, is it?
What church do you belong to? When was it born? When if ever did it split from an earlier parent group and what Bible reading differences?
I appreciate your simple modesty. May I appropriate it and join you in it?
No one has all the answers. I think that includes me, you, and the writers of ancient books - the Bible included.
What leads you to think that a storybook cum behavior codes written thousands of years ago can answer every problem of today is quaint and baffling at best, dangerous and damnable at worst?
Only your belief that a god exists.
What evidence beyond a reasonable doubt have you that a god exists?
'Religious seekers of truth' fail the second they turn to religion for truth. No truth will reach them. As usual ProfMTH, you're just giving us non believers (and possible non Christians) ammo.
Yes and the unity will be manifest on the day of Christ and then all the world will know that God sent Him. There's your answer. I can't wait to see and email that says "your still avoiding the question" after I post this...
@subruwrxsti1 You finally answered the question. See? Had you done that at the start, you'd have saved yourself a lot of time. :-) So, it's not a visible confirmatory sign now, but it will be one day--the "day of Christ." Got it.
Typical Christian tactic: any prophecy or condition that has failed to obtain gets pushed to some vague future time, making it unfalsifiable.
You did not avoid the question indeed.
You just put its confirmation conveniently and safely out of the reach of any one -including you- who might challenge why it hasn't been confirmed yet. Now isn't that comforting?
On what evidence do you base your answer that "ut unum sint" is clearly fated for this "day of Christ" yet to come?
@amoxtlacatl alright, if that is what the text means then you can't just say "it's a typical Christian tactic". Slapping a label on something and calling it a lie doesn't make it less true. I came to the conclusion that the unity will be maifest on the day of Christ because i read the chapter in context.
@subruwrxst The True Church is unified now. The thing is though probably about 99.9999% of the visible Church are HERETICS & NOT PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST! Those born of the Spirit of God will be united in OBEYING God & keeping His commandments! If you HATE any of His commandments this proves you are a child of the DEVIL & never knew Him! if the very mention of the Sabbath makes you angry, that is because you are filled with the spirit of SATAN & never knew Christ! A believer will hate all sin!
@ciaranofseir All you're doing is defending your own sect and your particular slant of which 'commandments' to believe. You just proved the point of the video. If Jesus' prayer to God about believers being "one" was actually *answered* by God, then you wouldn't be at odds with "99.9999%" of other believers who truly believe they are following Christ.
It's funny, God doesn't even answer Jesus' prayers, let along anyone else's.
From a Calvinistic standpoint of course it does. Like if you see a group of evangelists for example. No matter what I tell you, you will label it as "avoiding the question" unless God does a supernatural work in your heart and regenerates you. your example of the many denomenations fits perfectly with Matthew 7. I don't know what else I can tell you.
@subruwrxsti1 "No matter what I tell you, you will label it as 'avoiding the question'....."
Wrong. I asked you for a direct "yes" or "no" answer to my direct question. Am I correct in interpreting your statement "[f]rom a Calvinistic standpoint of course it is" to be a "yes" in response to the question whether the unity of Christians that Jesus said would be a visible confirmatory sign to the world that Jesus had come from God (Jn 17:33) is in fact a visible confirmatory sign to the world?
It's a tricky thing. On the surface they could seem to be true followers but on every other day of the week they could live like the world. In other worlds they could be Christians only on Sundays.
@subruwrxsti1 You're STILL avoiding the question I've asked you MULTIPLE times. So, again, I must conclude that you either unable to answer the question or you're afraid to do so. For the last time--and all I need here is a direct "yes" or "no"--is the unity of Christians that Jesus said would be a visible confirmatory sign to the world that Jesus had come from God (Jn 17:33) in fact a visible confirmatory sign to the world?
@ProfMTH, True Chirtsians ARE united, your fallacy is you're calling all those who profess to be Christians, Christians, & saying.. wow, they are really divided and ununified, therefore Jesus was wrong about the elect being one! Jesus was not wrong, those who are TRULY His are one, but most who profess to be His are LIARS & never knew Him! He will tell them to DEPART! His true elect whom He has truly called will be known by their FRUIT, whether they OBEY HIM! Denominations are constructs of men!
@ProfMTH I already told you how you will know a true disciple of Christ, FRUIT! Denominations are human constructs! The Church is not ANY denomination! The word translated Church is Ecclesia, which means called out ones! Those truly born of God will come out of the world & will be set apart from it, because they will live as Jesus did! A true disciiple of Christ will follow the teachings of Christ! Being one does not mean they will agree on everything, but they will agree on living as Jesus did!
@ciaranofseir " I already told you how you will know a true disciple of Christ, FRUIT!"
What's the "FRUIT!" The entire world is supposed to be recognizing these "true Christians" so that it can be demonstrated that Jesus came from God. So, I think we need to know what this "FRUIT!" is that identifies the "true Christians." Got some clues you can offer?
"A true disciiple of Christ will follow the teachings of Christ!"
@Prof “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them BY THIER FRUITS"Mt7:15
"for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, & truth"Ep5:9
Every Church may SAY they follow Christ's teachings, but almost NONE do! Goodness RIGHTEOUSNESS & TRUTH are fruits of the Spirit! A true believer will hate LIES like grace being a license to sin & observing pagan traditions of men, & will live DIFFERENTLY than the world!
@ciaranofseir "A true believer will hate LIES like grace being a license to sin & observing pagan traditions of men, & will live DIFFERENTLY than the world!"
Ah, so now you're offering some concrete stuff. Excellent. You say "true Christians" don't "observ[e] pagan traditions of men." So, would it be correct to conclude that any Christian who, e.g., celebrates Christmas is not a "true Christian"?
@P A true believer will follow what is TRUE to the very BEST of his/her understanding! It is possible a true believer may not understand Christ mass is the pagan 8th day of feast of the Saturnalia (which honored the rebirth of the unconquerable sun & was abosorbed into Catholicisim) & observe it in ignorance, but it would be IMPOSSIBLE for a believer to KNOW of its origins, KNOW that it is a LIE, & then to continue observing it! ALL who observe halloween show their loyalty to their father Satan!
@ciaranofseir "A true believer will follow what is TRUE to the very BEST of his/her understanding! It is possible a true believer may not understand Christ mass is the pagan 8th day of feast of the Saturnalia...."
So, a "true believer" *can* "observ[e] pagan traditions of men" and still be a "true believer." I see. Wouldn't that throw off the signal to the world that the unity of "true believers" is supposed to send, i.e., that Jesus came from God?
@P The unity will be that all true believers will keep the commandments of God! This is the acid test to know if one is born of God or is of the devil! 1Jn3:7-9 I don't think any so called believer who keeps Christmas today could be a true believer. There's too much information available about it's true origins & too much carnality, sin & blatant IDOLATRY that goes along with it! One who is a true believer COULD NOT lie to their kids about Satan Clause bringing them gifts or teach them to COVET!
@ciaranofseir "The unity will be that all true believers will keep the commandments of God! This is the acid test to know if one is born of God or is of the devil!"
So, that other stuff you talked about before was not part of the "acid test"? I'm starting to get the impression that goal posts are being moved by you. That's unfortunate.
BTW, are you a member of one of the Armstrong-type churches?
@P I'm not moving goal posts, I'm telling you what the word of God says! The word of God answers the question very clearly on how we can know a child of God! A true believer WILL NOT live in the practice of SIN! That is where unity will be! Whoever abides in Christ will live RIGHTEOUSLY as Christ did!
"In this the children of God & the CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL are manifest: Whoever does not PRACTICE RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT OF GOD"1JN3:10
Keeping pagan traditions of men IS NOT PRACTICING RIGHTEOUSNESS!
@P Jesus did say this; "And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more."Luke12:48
I do not belong to ANY group but to the BODY OF CHRIST, whose members will be known by their FRUIT!
@P Your welcome. I have visited various groups including break offs of the Armstrong organization. I do believe there are true believers within those groups, but a true believer will be known by keeping ALL of the commandments & refraining from ALL sin! Refraining from pagan holidays DOES NOT make one a Christian! If one is COVETOUS (loves money), yet observes the Sabbath & refrains from pagan holidays, he's still LIVING IN SIN! A believer will walk in love & OBEY God to the BEST of his ability!
@ProfMTH, Oh by the way, why don't you watch this video?
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In it is explained proof beyond doubt, the early church KEPT the Sabbath!
What happened is a great false counterfeit church arose (Catholicism), who worshiped their father Satan the sun god! They even referred to Jesus as the "true sun" to get converts among sun worshipers! Protestantism comes out of Catholicism, & is CORRUPTED! True believers will remain faithful to what is really taught by Jesus (keeping the commandments)!
@Prof But if you actually would watch that video, you will see that the proof cited is from early GENTILE Churches around the world, such as writings found from early Celtic Churches & early Churches in India, in far out of the way places where it was difficult for Catholic inquisitioners to reach! The truth is TRUE Christians ARE united in obeying ALL of the commandments of God, not just making a pretense at keeping 9 of them, while hating the fourth! Most professing believers HATE the Sabbath!
@ciaranofseir Let me broaden my response. I have no quibble about the Sabbath being kept by early Christians at all. Nor do I see it as relevant to this video, so I have no intention of being drawn into a pointless discussion about a matter that is both irrelevant and, as far as I'm concerned, not controversial. I trust that's clear enough.
@P Well yes it's clear, but wrong. The Sabbath is VERY relevant to what is being discussed in this video!
This video says that Christians are all split up & divided about what they believe, so this disproves what Jesus said & the Bible!
But Jesus PROPHESIED this very thing WOULD happen! He Prophesied MANY would come in His name saying that He is the Christ & deceive MANY (not few)! The test given by the Bible to know a true believer from a heretic, is a believer will KEEP (all) the commandments!
I mean those who are saved and bare fruit, we can sort of tell theyre of the elect of God. What we cant tell is which unbelievers are going to, by the grace of God, become saved. Sorry for the confusion.
@subruwrxsti1 "I mean those who are saved and bare fruit, we can sort of tell theyre of the elect of God."
So, then, the unity of believers in Jesus that Jesus said would be a confirmatory sign to the world that Jesus came from God (John 17:33) is, in fact, *not* a confirmatory sign to the world because only "those who are saved" can "sort of tell" who the true believers are, correct?
In that quote of me saying you can't accept my answer I meant that only God can enable you to perceive His truths my words and explanations can't do anything to the unbeliever. His elect are united and you can tell who they are by there fruits as it say "you will know a tree by it's fruits" in Matthew. Do you get it?
@subruwrxsti1 "His elect are united and you can tell who they are by there fruits as it say "you will know a tree by it's fruits" in Matthew. Do you get it?"
So, contrary to your earlier statement that only God knows who the true Christians are, you're now saying that everyone in the world can see who the true Christians are by "their fruits," is that correct?
No matter what answer I give you, you wont accept it because of your presuppositions. First off it matters what theological standpoint you are looking at it from. You have no theology and yet you are commenting on a passage which has a major theological point. You refuse to listen and can't accept it so I'm done here. Goodbye.
@subruwrxsti1 "No matter what answer I give you, you wont accept it because of your presuppositions."
You're not answering my question because you fear I won't "accept" your answer? You should try me. Perhaps I'm one of the known-only-to-God elect to whom God has led you just for this moment. If, as you say, only God knows who the true "brothers in Christ" are, how can their invisible unity be a confirmatory sign to the world, as Jesus said it would be (Jn 17:33), that Jesus was sent by God?
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I suggest thoroughly reading the bible and seeing what it says rather than what you think it means.
@subruwrxsti1 Still not answering my question despite my having given you several opportunities to do so. I'm compelled to conclude that you have no answer. I wish I could say I'm surprised.
Ok you should read up on the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. Me and my brothers in Christ are unified. And so are other true followers of Christ around the world. You have very little knowledge of what you are speaking of, and until you gain more knowledge I suggest you lay off making commentary videos about anything. Jesus is talking about the future as you stated in your video. He could be talking about the end of days and in the end of days "every knee will bow and every tongue w
@subruwrxsti1 "Me and my brothers in Christ are unified. And so are other true followers of Christ around the world."
But you said only your god knows who the true "brothers in Christ" are. So, how could your invisible unity be a confirmatory sign to the world, as Jesus said it would be (John 17:33), that Jesus was sent by your god?
@subruwrxsti1 "You are so far off in your judgment of Christianity"
Then help a guy out. If, as *you* have said, only God knows who the true Christians are, then how can it possibly be the case that the unity of Jesus' followers will, as he said, let the world know that God sent him (John 17:33)? If the unity is invisible, known only to your god--as you say it is--then the very sign Jesus said would validate his identity is not there. How, if at all, is that "so far off"? Please explain.
You know Charles Spurgeon once said "if you lift up people's shirts and see an E stamped on their back then you will know they're of the elect."No one knows except God. You never mentioned Calvinism or Arminianism by name, youre correct. But in the passage in John, Jesus Christ is referring to the elect of God not the world. And before Jesus says that passage he says "I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours." John 17:9
And so you make my point for me. Jesus said that this unity among his followers would be a sign to the world that Jesus was truly who he claimed to be. If the unity is invisible, known only to your god, then the very sign Jesus said would validate his identity is not there.
"Jesus Christ is referring to the elect of God not the world. "
John 17:33, "...so that THE WORLD may know that [God] sent me" (emphasis mine).
Ok you're dipping into a different/controversial topic now which is Calvinism vs Arminianism which I really don't want to get into. Jesus in John 17:20-23 was praying for HIS people not everyone who calls himself a follower of Christ. As I mentioned before in matthew 7:21-23...
@subruwrxsti1 "Ok you're dipping into a different/controversial topic now which is Calvinism vs Arminianism which I really don't want to get into."
Actually, I mentioned neither. Rather, you said, relying on Matthew 7:21-22, that not everyone who calls Jesus "Lord" is truly a Christian. It's only the ones who do "the will of [Jesus'] father" who are true Christians. So, who are these people and how do we know?
@subruwrxsti1 So, then, you're telling me that there are *true* Christians who are one in the way Jesus prayed and, therefore, constitute the answer to his prayer, is that correct?
Ok is there only one branch of atheism? Or anything else for that matter? You're argument doesn't hold on that point and that "Not everyone who says 'Lord Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and preformed miracles?' and I will say to them depart from me, I never knew you." Matthew 7:21-23 just because these many denomenations o
@subruwrxsti1 Atheism is not a religion,but to answer your question yes there is only on branch of atheism all it means is that you don't believe in a god or gods. Anything we believe after that is not part of atheism.
Wow. I'm speechless. So many things to be said about this video. What worldview do you hold to? (I'm not going to assume atheism because your only goal was to refute Christianity)
@subruwrxsti1 What, if anything, does my my "worldview" have to do with the argument? The argument either stands or falls on its merits, regardless of whether I'm the president of an atheist association, the Cardinal Archbishop of New York, or a guy who runs a hot dog stand and doesn't really care about religion at all.
(2 Timothy 4:3-4) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
@ProfMTH Homosexuality is a great example. Is homosexuality logical or reasonable? Is it scientifically explainable? Should we disallow it because it seems contrary to biological reproduction? It seems like atheist would have to be anti gay. Homosexuality transcends logic reason and science. Your logic seems to fail when applied to your own existence. irony
which homosexuality is the right one? They can’t all be right…lo
romney27 1 week ago
@romney27 As ever, Romney, you make no sense. But nice to hear from you again.
ProfMTH 1 week ago
There are many who profess to be Jews but are of the Synagogue of Satan. (Remember the first 'christians' were Jews), and in this context you might supplant the word "Jew" for Christian, or Believer. The TRUE 'church' even though spread throughout many denominations, are few and far between and the call has come for them to "Come out of Babylon". The sorting and gathering has started, so yes, Yeshua's prayer has been answered... I know and recognize my true brothers and sisters in Yeshua. :)
GodHasNOMother 2 weeks ago
@GodHasNOMother "I know and recognize my true brothers and sisters in Yeshua. :)"
How?
ProfMTH 2 weeks ago
@ProfMTH They believe that Yeshua is the Living Word of Yahowah who came in the flesh and stood in our place to receive the punishment meant for us, so that we may become righteous in Him. They believe that mere lip service is not going to save them, but that they need to turn away from wickedness and seek to do the Will of Yahowah. They know the flesh is weak, but that we need to resist evil on a daily basis and live to show fruit of love, temperance and deal fairly with everyone.
GodHasNOMother 2 weeks ago
@GodHasNOMother Oh, I suspect there are LOTS of Christians whom you would not regard as your "true brothers and sisters in Yeshua" who would say they adhere to all of the above. BTW, is this group of Christians you regard as the "real" ones recongized as such by the world?
ProfMTH 1 week ago
@ProfMTH If they adhere to the above they are my brothers and sisters... Our Lord sets the standards of what is right and wrong, not we. If they say they adhere to these standards, and do not, then their fruit will show that they are lying. The world does not recognize us, because we are not of the world...
GodHasNOMother 1 week ago
@ProfMTH They also believe that He rose from the Dead and is sitting at the Right Hand of Yahowah from where He will come to Judge all mankind on the Day of Judgement. That He is the Melech Ha Tzadik (Melchizedek) The Righteous King Priest who intercedes for all of us who believe in Him and call upon His Name, by Yahowah. That He is the First Fruits of the Harvest, and that He is the Only Shepherd who's voice we acknowledge... We call NO man Rabbi.
GodHasNOMother 2 weeks ago
@ProfMTH They also keep the Commandments of Yahowah (ALL TEN of them) and have the testimony of Yeshua...
GodHasNOMother 2 weeks ago
I could believe jesus was an alien much easier as it would make more sense an alien race sent someone to help these backwards fools back then , however that time period was full of crap as it is now ! so stay with SCIENCE !
flexbrat 3 weeks ago
Seeing as how John is the latest gospel included in the Bible to have been written, I think the most likely interpretation of this passage is that the author of the gospel is putting words in Jesus' mouth in the hope that the sectarianism that was already widespread in his own day would be stopped. I.e. This passage is anachronistic.
seleroan 1 month ago
@seleroan I think that's right.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@seleroan Do you honestly believe that the ONLY Apostle that was spared death by torture and entrusted with the Revelation of the End Times would 'put words in the mouth of Yeshua'?! And then have the chutzpah to write that if anyone adds to the Word of G-d to him will be added the plagues of Egypt, and to anyone who removes from the Word of G-d, will have his name removed from the Book of Life? (Shooting himself in the foot?) NO Apostle of Yeshua would do that....
GodHasNOMother 2 weeks ago
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@seleroan Do you honestly believe that the ONLY Apostle that was spared death by torture and entrusted with the Revelation of the End Times would 'put words in the mouth of Yeshua'?! And then have the chutzpah to write that if anyone adds to the Word of G-d to him will be added the plagues of Egypt, and to anyone who removes from the Word of G-d, will have his name removed from the Book of Life? (Shooting himself in the foot?) NO Apostle of Yeshua would do that....
GodHasNOMother 2 weeks ago
You sure that's a Lutheran girl @2.46 .. she looks like a hot atheist :)
ticodaddy 2 months ago
I think you're really, really stretching John 17 there. It is not as though Jesus is creating an exclusive list of qualities which his followers must have to be valid. I don't see that as the plain, most clear meaning of that text. And I don't know any commentator who does.
shadow3772 2 months ago
@shadow3772 So when one Christian sect dismisses another Christian sect by saying they are not Christians, they are still one?
FALCO64125 1 month ago
Your point about Catholicism doesn't hold water. Roman Catholics, Maronites, Syriac, etc, all are in unity with the pope. They only differ in externals and some practices which are interchangeable. An analogous situation, to some extent, would be the differing departments of the executive branch: all working for the same institution, with generally the same goal (administration/execution of validly exec'd laws) but with different outward appearances.
shadow3772 2 months ago
If there is a chance that God exists then the chance must be very big.
If I have to choose: I choose for the God of the Bible. Simply the best & most logical God.
My plan is simple: if there is no God, I am safe. If there is God I am safe also since I believe in Him. Atheists are risking too much.
ysopuatmube 2 months ago
@ysopuatmube this is retarded logic. The god you chose is a violent and vengeful one, and the bible says that you need to have faith and love god to be saved. Doing it to save your sorry ass will do nothing.
linkuei83 2 months ago
@linkuei83
God of the Bible is logical because his demands it fits into the law of nature including faith & love. Imagine every mom wasnt faithful or loving to her child, we will not be here now. The sufferings also fits in our nature: no pain no gain. And more important He warns the world is not a nice place.
Why war & disaster? The modern wars are much worst and the worst disasters are still coming, God said so. Explain...
ysopuatmube 2 months ago
@ysopuatmube you are not making the least bit of sense. I am sorry but can't understand any of what you said.
linkuei83 2 months ago
@linkuei83
Ok. Explain me what did u mean by "this is retarded logic." in your previous post.
I thought you are responsing on my comment ealier about God of the Bible is the most logical choice (= if there is a god then he should be one like what the bible describes).
You understand my point now?
ysopuatmube 2 months ago
@ysopuatmube i explained in my post why it is. Should read it again if you didn't get it. I think it made it clear, if not i can try again.
linkuei83 2 months ago
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@linkuei83
Ok. I repeat my statement and be specific what u mean by not logic:
- If there is a chance that God exists then the chance must be very big.
- If I have to choose: I choose for the God of the Bible.
- God of the Bible is simply the best & most logical God.
My plan is simple:
- if there is no God, I am safe (we all die & nothing happens)
- If there is God I am safe also since I believe in Him.
- Atheists are risking too much (no plan B at all, what if God does exists?)
ysopuatmube 2 months ago
@ProfMTH
Do you think that CS Lewis brainwashed himself?
Zacharia8v3 2 months ago
Go to any place and ask any body: who is jesus. You will find nobody who answerd: what is jesus?
Billion people will say that Jesus is from God or at least He is a prophet. Those billions are including those living the past centuries. Interesting, right? Not many people can achieve such thing. I mean, not everyone who said: I will become famous, will become famous.
Zacharia8v3 2 months ago
@Zacharia8v3 And so?
ProfMTH 2 months ago 3
@ProfMTH
Try to copy that... ;)
You got only 3 years to do that and must end up like a looser, killed and the cross or something like that.
Try to become famous after that (I mean really famous). Can you?
Do not cheat.
Zacharia8v3 2 months ago
@ProfMTH
If there is a god, how do u want him to be? I mean what kind of god do you like to see?
Zacharia8v3 2 months ago
@ProfMTH
Do u believe in big bang?
Zacharia8v3 2 months ago
@ProfMTH
So once more time:
- do u blieve in Bg bang?
- wat knd of God do u want
- CS Lewis brainwashed himself?
- Can u or anybody achieve what Jesus did? (3 years working, get killed & become famous)
Zacharia8v3 2 months ago
@Zacharia8v3 You have posted and reposted the same shit multiple times. I've answered your questions. You're done. Blocked for spamming and wasting my time.
ProfMTH 2 months ago
Get right in there Prof... get right in there man!!!
TheWisemonkey8 3 months ago
I think Jesus is saying that IF christians were unified then the entire world would know that god sent him. Being that christians are NOT unified, the world doesn't believe Jesus was sent by god. I don't see this as a refutation.
KayBeeEee1983 3 months ago
@KayBeeEee1983 "I think Jesus is saying that IF christians were unified then the entire world would know that god sent him. Being that christians are NOT unified...."
So God didn't answer Jesus' prayer.
ProfMTH 3 months ago 7
@ProfMTH Nope. Shows what chance our prayers have of being answered.
KayBeeEee1983 3 months ago
Haha! I was thinking of that conclusion before you got to it at the end of the video, good show :D
TorahOfMessiah613 3 months ago
You make a good argument. Interesting.
fratbrotha 3 months ago
@fratbrotha Thanks a lot.
ProfMTH 3 months ago
atheism refuse itself also.....they are saying everything is by coincidence...
wel then their fuckin dumbass homo lives are coincidence also...
typical weak dumbass sheeple like most of americans blame everything on coincidence.. ..illuminati is getting in your homoass without you even know it..
are you part of illuminati propaganda?illuminati paperboy?..they will deny you also bitch.
nuketherothschild666 3 months ago
@nuketherothschild666 that doesn't even come close to making sense lol. Atheism is the belief that science has the answers, if it is science, there are no coincidence's, there is always an explanation. I also have the feeling you don't even understand who the illuminati is. Especially for the fact that atheists have nothing to do with it, and your spelling, how you type and just your thought process makes my eye's sear of pain.
ShinoJereamachi 2 months ago
great job. all those different denominations in christianity! how can anyone claim they have a true message. some believe he's the son of god, some believe he's both. the absurdity is endless. the same in islam. they have over 500 sects! yet they all claim the knowledge of salvation. if people can get hundreds to thousands of different concepts from the same book, obviously something is wrong. i know the reason, but it's still funny to hear so many excuses.
saladooq 3 months ago
2:45 Looks like luscious little Lutheran lady loves long lusty labia licks...
kaduisaui 3 months ago
that lutheran girl is hot
matthelion 3 months ago
if U are an Atheist , U are a succes Product of NWO, illuminati.
dont believe all they say in tv's(tv 's own by illuminati)....
and zeitgeist movie: the part about religion is a lie...(part of NWo agenda)
do ur research....
nuketherothschild666 3 months ago
@nuketherothschild666 you should do your research and read the bible to see what religion is all about. I doubt you ever read it.
linkuei83 2 months ago
that girl at 2:41 hot, where did you get the picture of her?
conraddoavil 3 months ago
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Christians fail because they use circular logic.
halolIlmao0 4 months ago
Catholics and Protestants fought a long war in Ireland over their very obvious DIS-unity. They were not "One" with anything. Since the Reformation, just about every country in Europe had a civil war that involved them fighting over whether Catholicism or Protestantism should reign supreme. Thankfully, Europeans came to their senses and have mostly dumped the religion completely. Hopefully, they can reject that other psychotic cold sore that approaches them -- Islam.
politicoochie09 4 months ago 2
John 17:20-23 is a bit homoerotic
ahmology 4 months ago
Jesus' doctrines are whatever came out his mouth. With regards to uniformity, a lack of it CAN lead to a break in unity but in most cases I don't think so.
mrstevenjake22 4 months ago
@ProfMTH No, don't switch my words around. Theology is not the same as belief. I said salvation is not dependent on theology. However, if an individual holds a belief that contradicts following Jesus then I would question his salvation.
mrstevenjake22 4 months ago
Only God not this man knows who are the"ones" to be "one" the irony this guy desires eternal sousl to be more inclined to his prophecies. He is a prophet of doctrine to hate christianity what it stands for. He actually enpowers himself in these videos. He will not meet the spaghetti monster for judgment But a Holy God of all possiblity.The deception is if God were God He would stop this.No! some are reserved for greater judgment. They are given liberty for a longer rope.God loves these videos
polopowers1 4 months ago
Unity doesn't mean uniformity
mrstevenjake22 4 months ago
@mrstevenjake22 "Unity doesn't mean uniformity."
A nice bumper sticker. Alas, as with most bumper stickers, it doesn't really have much substance. Tell me, MrStevenJake22, is, just for example, the Catholic-Protestant split in Christianity a mere lack of uniformity? How about the split between trinitarian and non-trinitarian Christians? The Calvinist-Arminian split? I could go on, but please address those 3 examples. Thanks.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH Our salvation is not dependent on our theology. On judgment day, Gods not going to say "ok Catholics on my right and Lutherans on my left". No he's going to say "those who are my disciples on my right and everyone else on my left". Jesus said those who follow Him will be saved, therefore it is those who are his disciples who are unified. Theology has nothing to do with it.
mrstevenjake22 4 months ago
@mrstevenjake22 "Our salvation is not dependent on our theology."
So, then, one may believe whatever one wants, be a Christian, and be saved, is that correct?
And I'd appreciate your answering (rather than avoiding) the questions I asked about uniformity. Thanks. :-)
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH "So, then, one may believe whatever one wants, be a Christian, and be saved, is that correct?"
I cant really answer that since Im not God. However, if someone is truly a disciple of Jesus then it follows that they would follow His doctrines.
"And I'd appreciate your answering (rather than avoiding) the questions I asked about uniformity."
I wasnt trying to avoid the question so my bad. Yes most of the splits are a lack of theological uniformity.
mrstevenjake22 4 months ago
@mrstevenjake22 "I cant really answer that since Im not God."
That's odd. In your previous comment you were quite firm in your conviction that "salvation is not dependent on our theology." Now you're saying you can't really answer because you're "not God." Which is it: salvation is independent of what one believes OR you don't know because you're not God?
"His doctrines"
Who has "His doctrines"? Calvinists or Arminians? Catholics or Protestants? Trinitarians or non-Trinitarians?
ProfMTH 4 months ago
(con't) @mrstevenjake22 "Yes most of the splits are a lack of theological uniformity."
Thanks. And this lack of theological uniformity does *not* lead to a lack of unity, is that correct?
ProfMTH 4 months ago 4
@mrstevenjake22 Sorry, Mr Stevenjake - you didn't answer the question. You are the worst, creepiest kind of apologist. Go back and study your disgusting bible and mumble your prayers to your ill-imagined god!
leomcallister9 4 months ago
@ProfMTH I'll take a stab at it - Jesus answers this question, and a few others, in Mt 7:22-23. Here He distinguishes between those who hold their own worthiness up for consideration, based on their WORKS, and He replies with the ONLY qualification necessary, namely, predestination. You are either known by Him from before the foundation of the world (can't wait to field comments...) or you are responsible for your own sins before a holy, just, and angry God. Comes in handy to read the WHOLE
cheagan 3 months ago
@ProfMTH ... Bible without prejudice - a difficult task, to be sure. But outside the proper framework - Calvinism - one may never figure out that, 1.) one's very nature is evil, and 2.) that "free will" is a myth. You are NOT free to act as you will; your essence is at enmity with God, and absent the "quickening" work of the Holy Spirit, you are DEAD already in your sins and trespasses.
cheagan 3 months ago
@ProfMTH But one thing you misunderstand is that HE reveals Himself to whomever He wishes, and that is the ONLY way to know Him. Calvinism holds that due to our "total depravity", we as humans are wholly unable to even seek Him; those who pretend to are really just trying to impress themselves and are merely acting out of and feeding their own pride... which is the most primeval of sins. In Mt 7:22-23 we find those who even recognize Jesus' lordship (we call them "Christians") but who list their
cheagan 3 months ago
@cheagan so what about all the people that said that they prayed for god to reveal himself and he did and we should do the same? Clearly religion fails and you can't get a damn hint of it. You guys can't agree on anything and demand to be taken seriously, it's pathetic.
linkuei83 2 months ago
@linkuei83 I don't demand any such thing. I have a mandate to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ; if it sticks to you, then you know you're saved. That simple. If not, then if I were you I would invest in some asbestos underwear.
cheagan 2 months ago
@cheagan so you're right and saved and all other people who are in different denominations are fucked?!
linkuei83 2 months ago
@linkuei83 I can't speak for "all other denominations". Paul says that if anyone preaches "a different gospel" other than the one he illuminates, and that his hearers had already received, they are "accursed". I have spent the better part of 17 years studying the Gospel of Jesus Christ in the interest of getting it "right"... what have you been doing all this time? My point is that it MATTERS to me, and that is due to the presence of the Holy Ghost in me. I have left a few
cheagan 2 months ago
@linkuei83 ...churches in the past, never feeling as if I owed them any loyalty, because of doctrines which I discovered in the course of time that were antithetical to a Biblical understanding of the Gospel. Essentially it is a treaty, between God and humanity. Some denominations remove elements from the Gospel; others add to it. And by virtue of this, they have abrogated it and nullified it. It is really very simple.
cheagan 2 months ago
@ProfMTH ... litany of good works as evidence of their "salvation". Surely they qualify for eternal life! Yet all along, it was those whom Jesus FOREKNEW who were PREDESTINED to be saved. NO ONE is deserving of God's forgiveness, yet He deigns to grant it to a select ("elect") few, in order "that he might display the riches of his grace in Christ Jesus". Sadly, most Americans cannot get over the hump of "free will", and cannot admit their own depravity. Thank you, Oprah Winfrey.
cheagan 3 months ago
The book of Acts chapters one and two are the fulfillment of John chapter 17. See Acts 1:14 and 2:1,46 and 5:12
iodtiger2 5 months ago
@iodtiger2 Oh, that's it, the unity of believers as a sign communicating to the world that Jesus came from God ended there in the Book of Acts?
ProfMTH 5 months ago
Every christian sect belives in the new testament, doesn't that make us one?
will595959 5 months ago
@will595959 Not by itself, no.
ProfMTH 5 months ago
I am an atheist, i think christianity refutes itself. But this video is not good at all. Believers being one doesnt mean being one sect.
sirdelrio 5 months ago
@sirdelrio What does it mean?
ProfMTH 5 months ago
You can't bring up one issue wherein one Christian sect doesn't disagree with some other one. Either Jesus is telling 38,000 sects 38,000 different things, or 38,000 sects have 38,000 opinions. Please use Occam's Razor.
TheBowsersMario 6 months ago
Please god strike the rest off the list too! They are all false :)
HostileNegotiator 6 months ago
This Video doesn't provide evidence that what Jesus said was in error, only SUPPORT for what else Jesus said in other passages!
"For MANY will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive MANY."Mat24:5
Those who are truly called by God & born of the Holy Spirit ARE one just as Jesus & God are one, but MOST who claim to be Christians (probably about 99.999%) are LIARS & NEVER KNEW HIM!
Those who truly know Christ are very FEW & will be known by their FRUIT (whether they obey God)!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
Taylor & all:
Wanna have a good laugh (or have your hairs stand on end)?
Look at this video here on YouTube:
/watch?v=fc8eX1dO9XY
where someone attempts to explain why the writer of Revelations used letters to write the number of the Beast.
I KID YOU NOT.
Watch it and laugh heartily.
Then read the comments by most viewers of that video - and cringe.
Cringe at how little they know of matters biblical - and be scared by what they conclude from such ignorance and their wild imaginations.
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
@amoxtlacatl
By the way, the user who uploaded that video BLOCKED ME for daring to write the truth on that video.
The video claims it is a mystery that the writer of Revelations used letters to write the number of the Beast.
I explained plainly that everyone back in those times used letters as numbers in Greek, Latin, Hebrew, and many other languages.
And called the video poor.
And that got me blocked. =D
And my comment was deleted.
Thin-skinned user??? ;-)
S/he can't handle the truth.
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
I can see so many atheist burning in hell.
iTrollThis 7 months ago
I'M ELVIS PRESLEY.... Just because I said so it doesn't mean I am, THANK YOU for laying it so plainly!!! Those names you mentioned carried the title but they do not follow the MANUAL therefore they cannot be those who they claim to be keep reading the MANUAL and you will see that not all who claims to be a Christian is a Christian
xdeltomx 7 months ago in playlist doc.
@xdeltomx
Is the manual clear enough that all can plainly tell which of the many thousands of denominations claiming to be Christian are actually Christian?
Then why can groups like the Roman Catholic church claim that salvation comes from belief plus works - or sometimes even just works - while Calvinists assert in no uncertain terms that it is faith alone as sent from above that signals salvation - and not any work of man?
Are both Christian? Calvin and Renaissance popes would say no.
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
@amoxtlacatl
The manual is clear enough. God is not stupid to do not say what means and He means what He says.
However man is so arrogant that he believes that God needs an interpretation as if He doesn't know what He says. 1 Pet. 3:21 says that baptism saves us and John 3:16 says that he that believes shall be save this verses is taken out of context because in the same chapter Jesus mentions baptism to ENTER to the Kingdom of Heaven the believing in things He already spoke of. John 3:1-7
xdeltomx 6 months ago
@xdeltomx
John 1: In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was God.
John 1: In the beginning was the word, and the word was with God and the word was a god.
Both these translations are perfectly correct from the standpoint of Greek grammar.
One supports the beliefs of traditional Trinitarian Christianity; the other supports the beliefs of Jehova's Witnesses and others.
And using theology to decide is cart before horse and sheer circular reasoning.
What gives?
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
@amoxtlacatl The reason they both are correct is because in Greek they don't use "a" or "an" because in that case it would have been translated as and the word was with a God
xdeltomx 6 months ago
@xdeltomx
Well answered. Indeed, there is no indeterminate article (a/an) in Greek, which lends John 1:1 to at least two readings - i.e. INTERPRETATIONS.
And this already detracts from the manual's clarity. Were it clear enough, only one reading would be possible. Yet this is not so.
And yet you say it is, in one word, clear.
When modern manual writers know their texts will be translated, they take pains to remove ANY possible ambiguity.
Did the Bible god not know how to remove ambiguity?
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
I have just given you one example of how the "manual" is not clear enough and requires interpretation.
And you just gave me the umpteenth Bible INTERPRETATION I have read about why either faith or works save.
And there is more where that came from. The Bible is full of such "pearls".
And you remain naive or disingenuous enough to still claim that the Bible requires NO interpretation?
Sorry to disabuse you.
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
@amoxtlacatl
The bible requires READING not interpretation if you read it you will understand it, that's why I call it a manual. Manual are not to interpret but to follow, and those pearls that you talk about are not but merely places that needs more reading as a whole not as a part
xdeltomx 6 months ago
@xdeltomx
Reading the faith/works exegesis you posted, a traditional intolerant Calvinist might have no trouble saying you are wrong, possibly branding you a heretic and maybe even in liege with Satan (as comical comic evangelist Jack T. Chic does with the Roman Catholic Church to this day).
Yet you both call yourselves Christians.
And you say the Bible is clear...
O what a tangled web we weave
when first we practice to believe!
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
@amoxtlacatl
Thank you so much for your comments, there is no disabusing made so far. I don't have all the answers, I am just a guy who doesn't have a Phd. But I like to know what I read. There are many great and good man in many denominations who teach wrong things, this is because interpretation. See Mahatma Gandhi said once I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ, because of the way one interpreted the other Jesus taught never interpreted
xdeltomx 6 months ago
@xdeltomx
How many divergent groups are there around reading, say, a computer or car manual?
Has it ever dawned on you that if the Bible were -as you say- such a clear manual, there would be no divergent interpretations or readings and all who follow it would agree on all points???
Yet this is not so, is it?
What church do you belong to? When was it born? When if ever did it split from an earlier parent group and what Bible reading differences?
I await your reply.
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
@xdeltomx
I appreciate your simple modesty. May I appropriate it and join you in it?
No one has all the answers. I think that includes me, you, and the writers of ancient books - the Bible included.
What leads you to think that a storybook cum behavior codes written thousands of years ago can answer every problem of today is quaint and baffling at best, dangerous and damnable at worst?
Only your belief that a god exists.
What evidence beyond a reasonable doubt have you that a god exists?
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
Tuesday
KluKluxKLAM 7 months ago
'Religious seekers of truth' fail the second they turn to religion for truth. No truth will reach them. As usual ProfMTH, you're just giving us non believers (and possible non Christians) ammo.
HybridD91 7 months ago
38,000 different sects. And each one is convinced of its inerrancy, while regarding the other 37,999 sects as false.
LMAO
Weissnung 8 months ago 14
@Weissnung Here's the kicker, they all can use the Bible to support their opposing views.
HybridD91 7 months ago 12
Yes and the unity will be manifest on the day of Christ and then all the world will know that God sent Him. There's your answer. I can't wait to see and email that says "your still avoiding the question" after I post this...
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 You finally answered the question. See? Had you done that at the start, you'd have saved yourself a lot of time. :-) So, it's not a visible confirmatory sign now, but it will be one day--the "day of Christ." Got it.
ProfMTH 8 months ago
Comment removed
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
@subruwrxsti1
Typical Christian tactic: any prophecy or condition that has failed to obtain gets pushed to some vague future time, making it unfalsifiable.
You did not avoid the question indeed.
You just put its confirmation conveniently and safely out of the reach of any one -including you- who might challenge why it hasn't been confirmed yet. Now isn't that comforting?
On what evidence do you base your answer that "ut unum sint" is clearly fated for this "day of Christ" yet to come?
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
@amoxtlacatl alright, if that is what the text means then you can't just say "it's a typical Christian tactic". Slapping a label on something and calling it a lie doesn't make it less true. I came to the conclusion that the unity will be maifest on the day of Christ because i read the chapter in context.
subruwrxsti1 6 months ago
@subruwrxst The True Church is unified now. The thing is though probably about 99.9999% of the visible Church are HERETICS & NOT PART OF THE BODY OF CHRIST! Those born of the Spirit of God will be united in OBEYING God & keeping His commandments! If you HATE any of His commandments this proves you are a child of the DEVIL & never knew Him! if the very mention of the Sabbath makes you angry, that is because you are filled with the spirit of SATAN & never knew Christ! A believer will hate all sin!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir All you're doing is defending your own sect and your particular slant of which 'commandments' to believe. You just proved the point of the video. If Jesus' prayer to God about believers being "one" was actually *answered* by God, then you wouldn't be at odds with "99.9999%" of other believers who truly believe they are following Christ.
It's funny, God doesn't even answer Jesus' prayers, let along anyone else's.
Discern4 5 months ago
From a Calvinistic standpoint of course it does. Like if you see a group of evangelists for example. No matter what I tell you, you will label it as "avoiding the question" unless God does a supernatural work in your heart and regenerates you. your example of the many denomenations fits perfectly with Matthew 7. I don't know what else I can tell you.
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 "No matter what I tell you, you will label it as 'avoiding the question'....."
Wrong. I asked you for a direct "yes" or "no" answer to my direct question. Am I correct in interpreting your statement "[f]rom a Calvinistic standpoint of course it is" to be a "yes" in response to the question whether the unity of Christians that Jesus said would be a visible confirmatory sign to the world that Jesus had come from God (Jn 17:33) is in fact a visible confirmatory sign to the world?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1
I am glad you have approached answering my question - but you have not quite answered it yet.
Could you please clarify how you know the text meant what you claim it meant?
In what context did you read the text that made you read it so?
Thank you.
amoxtlacatl 6 months ago
It's a tricky thing. On the surface they could seem to be true followers but on every other day of the week they could live like the world. In other worlds they could be Christians only on Sundays.
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 You're STILL avoiding the question I've asked you MULTIPLE times. So, again, I must conclude that you either unable to answer the question or you're afraid to do so. For the last time--and all I need here is a direct "yes" or "no"--is the unity of Christians that Jesus said would be a visible confirmatory sign to the world that Jesus had come from God (Jn 17:33) in fact a visible confirmatory sign to the world?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
@ProfMTH, True Chirtsians ARE united, your fallacy is you're calling all those who profess to be Christians, Christians, & saying.. wow, they are really divided and ununified, therefore Jesus was wrong about the elect being one! Jesus was not wrong, those who are TRULY His are one, but most who profess to be His are LIARS & never knew Him! He will tell them to DEPART! His true elect whom He has truly called will be known by their FRUIT, whether they OBEY HIM! Denominations are constructs of men!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir "True Chirtsians ARE united...."
Who are these "true Christians" and how do we know them?
ProfMTH 6 months ago
@ProfMTH I already told you how you will know a true disciple of Christ, FRUIT! Denominations are human constructs! The Church is not ANY denomination! The word translated Church is Ecclesia, which means called out ones! Those truly born of God will come out of the world & will be set apart from it, because they will live as Jesus did! A true disciiple of Christ will follow the teachings of Christ! Being one does not mean they will agree on everything, but they will agree on living as Jesus did!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir " I already told you how you will know a true disciple of Christ, FRUIT!"
What's the "FRUIT!" The entire world is supposed to be recognizing these "true Christians" so that it can be demonstrated that Jesus came from God. So, I think we need to know what this "FRUIT!" is that identifies the "true Christians." Got some clues you can offer?
"A true disciiple of Christ will follow the teachings of Christ!"
Every church says it does that.
ProfMTH 6 months ago
@Prof “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them BY THIER FRUITS"Mt7:15
"for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness, righteousness, & truth"Ep5:9
Every Church may SAY they follow Christ's teachings, but almost NONE do! Goodness RIGHTEOUSNESS & TRUTH are fruits of the Spirit! A true believer will hate LIES like grace being a license to sin & observing pagan traditions of men, & will live DIFFERENTLY than the world!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir "A true believer will hate LIES like grace being a license to sin & observing pagan traditions of men, & will live DIFFERENTLY than the world!"
Ah, so now you're offering some concrete stuff. Excellent. You say "true Christians" don't "observ[e] pagan traditions of men." So, would it be correct to conclude that any Christian who, e.g., celebrates Christmas is not a "true Christian"?
ProfMTH 6 months ago
@P A true believer will follow what is TRUE to the very BEST of his/her understanding! It is possible a true believer may not understand Christ mass is the pagan 8th day of feast of the Saturnalia (which honored the rebirth of the unconquerable sun & was abosorbed into Catholicisim) & observe it in ignorance, but it would be IMPOSSIBLE for a believer to KNOW of its origins, KNOW that it is a LIE, & then to continue observing it! ALL who observe halloween show their loyalty to their father Satan!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir "A true believer will follow what is TRUE to the very BEST of his/her understanding! It is possible a true believer may not understand Christ mass is the pagan 8th day of feast of the Saturnalia...."
So, a "true believer" *can* "observ[e] pagan traditions of men" and still be a "true believer." I see. Wouldn't that throw off the signal to the world that the unity of "true believers" is supposed to send, i.e., that Jesus came from God?
ProfMTH 6 months ago
@P The unity will be that all true believers will keep the commandments of God! This is the acid test to know if one is born of God or is of the devil! 1Jn3:7-9 I don't think any so called believer who keeps Christmas today could be a true believer. There's too much information available about it's true origins & too much carnality, sin & blatant IDOLATRY that goes along with it! One who is a true believer COULD NOT lie to their kids about Satan Clause bringing them gifts or teach them to COVET!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir "The unity will be that all true believers will keep the commandments of God! This is the acid test to know if one is born of God or is of the devil!"
So, that other stuff you talked about before was not part of the "acid test"? I'm starting to get the impression that goal posts are being moved by you. That's unfortunate.
BTW, are you a member of one of the Armstrong-type churches?
ProfMTH 6 months ago
@P I'm not moving goal posts, I'm telling you what the word of God says! The word of God answers the question very clearly on how we can know a child of God! A true believer WILL NOT live in the practice of SIN! That is where unity will be! Whoever abides in Christ will live RIGHTEOUSLY as Christ did!
"In this the children of God & the CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL are manifest: Whoever does not PRACTICE RIGHTEOUSNESS is NOT OF GOD"1JN3:10
Keeping pagan traditions of men IS NOT PRACTICING RIGHTEOUSNESS!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir "Keeping pagan traditions of men IS NOT PRACTICING RIGHTEOUSNESS!"
But you've already said at least some "true believers" can do it and still be "true believers."
In any case, am I correct about the Armstrong-type church?
ProfMTH 6 months ago
@P Jesus did say this; "And that servant who knew his master’s will, and did not prepare himself or do according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he who did not know, yet committed things deserving of stripes, shall be beaten with few. For everyone to whom much is given, from him much will be required; and to whom much has been committed, of him they will ask the more."Luke12:48
I do not belong to ANY group but to the BODY OF CHRIST, whose members will be known by their FRUIT!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir "I do not belong to ANY group but to the BODY OF CHRIST, whose members will be known by their FRUIT!"
lol OK. Thanks.
ProfMTH 6 months ago
@P Your welcome. I have visited various groups including break offs of the Armstrong organization. I do believe there are true believers within those groups, but a true believer will be known by keeping ALL of the commandments & refraining from ALL sin! Refraining from pagan holidays DOES NOT make one a Christian! If one is COVETOUS (loves money), yet observes the Sabbath & refrains from pagan holidays, he's still LIVING IN SIN! A believer will walk in love & OBEY God to the BEST of his ability!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ProfMTH, Oh by the way, why don't you watch this video?
?v=YpEQOe3hHxE
In it is explained proof beyond doubt, the early church KEPT the Sabbath!
What happened is a great false counterfeit church arose (Catholicism), who worshiped their father Satan the sun god! They even referred to Jesus as the "true sun" to get converts among sun worshipers! Protestantism comes out of Catholicism, & is CORRUPTED! True believers will remain faithful to what is really taught by Jesus (keeping the commandments)!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir I have no quibble about the early Christians (who, initally at least, were largely Jewish) keeping the Sabbath.
ProfMTH 6 months ago
@Prof But if you actually would watch that video, you will see that the proof cited is from early GENTILE Churches around the world, such as writings found from early Celtic Churches & early Churches in India, in far out of the way places where it was difficult for Catholic inquisitioners to reach! The truth is TRUE Christians ARE united in obeying ALL of the commandments of God, not just making a pretense at keeping 9 of them, while hating the fourth! Most professing believers HATE the Sabbath!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@ciaranofseir Let me broaden my response. I have no quibble about the Sabbath being kept by early Christians at all. Nor do I see it as relevant to this video, so I have no intention of being drawn into a pointless discussion about a matter that is both irrelevant and, as far as I'm concerned, not controversial. I trust that's clear enough.
ProfMTH 6 months ago
Comment removed
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
@P Well yes it's clear, but wrong. The Sabbath is VERY relevant to what is being discussed in this video!
This video says that Christians are all split up & divided about what they believe, so this disproves what Jesus said & the Bible!
But Jesus PROPHESIED this very thing WOULD happen! He Prophesied MANY would come in His name saying that He is the Christ & deceive MANY (not few)! The test given by the Bible to know a true believer from a heretic, is a believer will KEEP (all) the commandments!
ciaranofseir 6 months ago
I mean those who are saved and bare fruit, we can sort of tell theyre of the elect of God. What we cant tell is which unbelievers are going to, by the grace of God, become saved. Sorry for the confusion.
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 "I mean those who are saved and bare fruit, we can sort of tell theyre of the elect of God."
So, then, the unity of believers in Jesus that Jesus said would be a confirmatory sign to the world that Jesus came from God (John 17:33) is, in fact, *not* a confirmatory sign to the world because only "those who are saved" can "sort of tell" who the true believers are, correct?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
In that quote of me saying you can't accept my answer I meant that only God can enable you to perceive His truths my words and explanations can't do anything to the unbeliever. His elect are united and you can tell who they are by there fruits as it say "you will know a tree by it's fruits" in Matthew. Do you get it?
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 "His elect are united and you can tell who they are by there fruits as it say "you will know a tree by it's fruits" in Matthew. Do you get it?"
So, contrary to your earlier statement that only God knows who the true Christians are, you're now saying that everyone in the world can see who the true Christians are by "their fruits," is that correct?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
No matter what answer I give you, you wont accept it because of your presuppositions. First off it matters what theological standpoint you are looking at it from. You have no theology and yet you are commenting on a passage which has a major theological point. You refuse to listen and can't accept it so I'm done here. Goodbye.
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 "No matter what answer I give you, you wont accept it because of your presuppositions."
You're not answering my question because you fear I won't "accept" your answer? You should try me. Perhaps I'm one of the known-only-to-God elect to whom God has led you just for this moment. If, as you say, only God knows who the true "brothers in Christ" are, how can their invisible unity be a confirmatory sign to the world, as Jesus said it would be (Jn 17:33), that Jesus was sent by God?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. I suggest thoroughly reading the bible and seeing what it says rather than what you think it means.
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 Still not answering my question despite my having given you several opportunities to do so. I'm compelled to conclude that you have no answer. I wish I could say I'm surprised.
ProfMTH 8 months ago
Ok you should read up on the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. Me and my brothers in Christ are unified. And so are other true followers of Christ around the world. You have very little knowledge of what you are speaking of, and until you gain more knowledge I suggest you lay off making commentary videos about anything. Jesus is talking about the future as you stated in your video. He could be talking about the end of days and in the end of days "every knee will bow and every tongue w
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 "Me and my brothers in Christ are unified. And so are other true followers of Christ around the world."
But you said only your god knows who the true "brothers in Christ" are. So, how could your invisible unity be a confirmatory sign to the world, as Jesus said it would be (John 17:33), that Jesus was sent by your god?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
You are so far off in your judgment of Christianity my friend. You're angry at a God who you say doesn't exist.
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 "You are so far off in your judgment of Christianity"
Then help a guy out. If, as *you* have said, only God knows who the true Christians are, then how can it possibly be the case that the unity of Jesus' followers will, as he said, let the world know that God sent him (John 17:33)? If the unity is invisible, known only to your god--as you say it is--then the very sign Jesus said would validate his identity is not there. How, if at all, is that "so far off"? Please explain.
ProfMTH 8 months ago
You know Charles Spurgeon once said "if you lift up people's shirts and see an E stamped on their back then you will know they're of the elect."No one knows except God. You never mentioned Calvinism or Arminianism by name, youre correct. But in the passage in John, Jesus Christ is referring to the elect of God not the world. And before Jesus says that passage he says "I am praying for them. I am not praying for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours." John 17:9
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 "No one knows except God."
And so you make my point for me. Jesus said that this unity among his followers would be a sign to the world that Jesus was truly who he claimed to be. If the unity is invisible, known only to your god, then the very sign Jesus said would validate his identity is not there.
"Jesus Christ is referring to the elect of God not the world. "
John 17:33, "...so that THE WORLD may know that [God] sent me" (emphasis mine).
ProfMTH 8 months ago
Ok you're dipping into a different/controversial topic now which is Calvinism vs Arminianism which I really don't want to get into. Jesus in John 17:20-23 was praying for HIS people not everyone who calls himself a follower of Christ. As I mentioned before in matthew 7:21-23...
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 "Ok you're dipping into a different/controversial topic now which is Calvinism vs Arminianism which I really don't want to get into."
Actually, I mentioned neither. Rather, you said, relying on Matthew 7:21-22, that not everyone who calls Jesus "Lord" is truly a Christian. It's only the ones who do "the will of [Jesus'] father" who are true Christians. So, who are these people and how do we know?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
Or sects profess Christ as Lord doesn't mean they are right by the standards of Christianity set by the Bible
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 So, then, you're telling me that there are *true* Christians who are one in the way Jesus prayed and, therefore, constitute the answer to his prayer, is that correct?
ProfMTH 8 months ago
Ok is there only one branch of atheism? Or anything else for that matter? You're argument doesn't hold on that point and that "Not everyone who says 'Lord Lord' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and preformed miracles?' and I will say to them depart from me, I never knew you." Matthew 7:21-23 just because these many denomenations o
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 Atheism is not a religion,but to answer your question yes there is only on branch of atheism all it means is that you don't believe in a god or gods. Anything we believe after that is not part of atheism.
TheJohn864 8 months ago
Wow. I'm speechless. So many things to be said about this video. What worldview do you hold to? (I'm not going to assume atheism because your only goal was to refute Christianity)
subruwrxsti1 8 months ago
@subruwrxsti1 What, if anything, does my my "worldview" have to do with the argument? The argument either stands or falls on its merits, regardless of whether I'm the president of an atheist association, the Cardinal Archbishop of New York, or a guy who runs a hot dog stand and doesn't really care about religion at all.
ProfMTH 8 months ago
@BETTERthenUare I'll spend my time as I like. Moreover, you haven't a clue what I do for the poor or anything else. Thanks.
ProfMTH 8 months ago
1:09 - I buhlevez in big mullet jezus!!!
TheCaptainLulz 8 months ago
Why you no mention Orthodox Chirstianity? :/
DJbertjor 9 months ago
@DJbertjor Why would I single out Orthodox Christianity? It's just one of the many different players on the crowded field that is Christianity.
ProfMTH 9 months ago
@ProfMTH I meant it as a joke :))) Orthodox Christianity has many divisions as well, but you didn't mention them :)))
DJbertjor 9 months ago
(2 Timothy 4:3-4) For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
james3v6 9 months ago
Harold Camping was RIGHT about May 21, click on my channel to see...
youneekk 9 months ago