@Archzenom yes me too but it requires many different objects that changed. but iam sure if you church use this rite once they still have the stuff because you can not chuck out most of the stuff they use it is sacred. Dominus Vobiscum
@19081927modeltfan Well, I am aware of how sacred it is but sadly, we need Latin to return at full power to all of the churches that are under the Holy See, every Catholic parishes so that we will have a sense of unity in language but that doesn't mean that we won't use the vernacular. Vernacular is useful in everyday communication and also, et cum espiritu tuo!
nobody understands the true glory of the latin mass, i wish our church would bring it back. there are butefuial photos of the latin altar from the 50's but they still own all the supplies i wish they would bring it back
It was imposed on me in baptism and as a child. It was imposed on me when I went to sunday school and go thru confirmation(which I railed against as a 13 yr old on the grounds that there was no evidence to support this or any gods). Its imposed on me when I drive down EVERY road and see the churches, mosques, synagogues, and have to read their silly signs (God is Nowhere? Or Now Here?) Duh. It needs to be erased forever because religion IS mental illness.
its time for reason to prevail, and for logical people to destroy the savage cave men who are afraid of thunder and lightning- c'mon, we both know its not "god."
@ReasonableAtheist Actually we have use logic some of the greatest champions of Faith and reason are Thomas Aquinas and Cardinal Newman. And what is wrong with Latin? Don't most languages of the Western World has roots in Latin? Latin is the language of Academia, science, scholars, and the Ancients. Its part of the WEstern Heritage. Besides the analogy of the cave is probably written in Greek and then into Latin.
Faith is not a subset of logic. Faith and logic are completely at odds with each other, in fact, faith means: "belief that is not based on proof" which is 100% illogical.
@ReasonableAtheist Faith is beyond reason but it can be rational. The 5 proofs for God's existence accord to St Thomas Aquinas are more than rational ways to know that there is a transcendent being above the material universe, out of which all things owe their existence to. This being is called God and was made a man in the person of Christ and was humiliated on a Cross. You claim to want proof, yet there is reason. Science cannot prove the supernatural because that is beyond its limits.
Since there's no evidence or reason to assume any god exists, and since "supernatural" is a word to describe stuff that is actually make-believe in every sense of the words, no, I disagree with you that faith can be rational. It can not. You're justifying your "gut feelings" that god is real.
@ReasonableAtheist I don't think that believing in the credibility of deductive arguments for God's existence is anything to do with wishful thinking. In fact if you read the 5 ways of St Thomas Aquinas, the ontological argument of St Anselm, the Kalam Cosmological argument and many other rational proofs for God's existence, you will see that such a being is more than necessary to explain the intricacy of the universe and why there is something rather than nothing.
@ReasonableAtheist I don't think that believing in the credibility of deductive arguments for God's existence is anything to do with wishful thinking. In fact if you read the 5 ways of St Thomas Aquinas, the ontological argument of St Anselm, the Kalam Cosmological argument and many other rational proofs for God's existence, you will see that such a being is more than necessary to explain the intricacy of the universe and why there is something rather than nothing.
@TheOrville1992 NOPE, RUBRICS SAY WE MUST BOW AT THE NAME OF JESUS, WELL NOT EVEN RUBRICS BUT HOLY SCRIPTURE ITSELF, AT THE NAME OF JESUS EVERY KNEE SHALL BEND
Not from a spiritual but historic point of view, Vatican II might lead to the destruction of the Roman Catholic Church [certainly its decline] because we are now widely divided so called "progressives" who are regressing into the Protestantism & the Catholics that stand by the TRUE form of the Faith. The traditionals who actually want to preserve Catholicism and practice it the way that God intended [imagine that! Catholics that actually LIKE Catholicism- is it so hard to believe that we exist?
@spitzer72 Yes I accept that, and it's good to quote people, and I see the good in you stating which mass is right and which is not right, I for one would love my priest to be more strict in church and to offer up the more holy Tridentine mass alot more often; but I just can't get around people saying which one is right without acknowledging that in the end, it is God's decision. By saying only one mass is right, it's implying that other's can't share in the grace of God, and can't enter heaven.
@spitzer72 How does God react in this situation where some people receive the right sacraments in the wrong setting, and how He reacts when some people receive the wrong sacraments (Without the right priest or the right mass) but with a purely open and willing heart to God; is entirely up to him. Although I recognise some of the points you might make, we should'nt be so proud as to say which is the right mass as it might imply some people are'nt receiving God's grace.
@spitzer72 Yes I agree with you, but I don't think God is ignorant. He knows whether people do things innocently, and whether they do it with an open heart when receiving any sacrament. I mean, some people who adore the tridentine mass (Which I think is the best mass of all, and the only true mass) receive the sacraments without any respect. Yet with some other masses, or even other denominations of the Christian spetrum, people are receiving with a strong desire (Especially the youth)
What is so evident to me, is that in the midst of the very Europe where so many churches are empty, this parish is full and it is not limited to just this parish and so this begs the question, why??! The Mystery of the Mass as it should be allows the Holy Spirit to work powerfully.
"Fire and brimstone" is more Protestant, particularly Calvinist... which eventually evolved into the mess that many people in the US consider to be Christianity.
Why do people insist on bringing back this old skeleton and corpse of a liturgy. This is not where the Church is- all those old moth-stricken fiddlebacks, lace, and biretta's. The Church is with the youth in its praise and worship, guitar Masses, clown Masses, and the Novus Ordo- NOT this "Old Mass"....you people need to get with the times!!!
@polakmax Excuse me but the new liturgy is very similar to a protestant service. It is radically different to the Tridentine Liturgy. The prayers were stripped out and it dumbed down Catholicism. This mass converted Nations and Saints celebrated it. Always in history, it has been culture and the world that has been shaped by Catholicism, why? Because the Church's transcendence speaks unto the world, however if we incorporate the world in us, we lose the faith of the apostles.
@AdversusHaereses Did you see the Mass offered by H H Benedict XVI in Westminster Cathedral last year? Latin, Plain song, good hymns, Boys choir ( how many countries have those in the Cathedrals and larger parish churches?), trumpets et al. The Mass lives in all its forms because it is of the Church and therefore of GO
@polakmax i think everyone has a style that suits their own spirituality. I myself am 23, and I find the Latin Mass or Old Mass much more appealing to me. But the point is'nt what mass is best, rather, God has promised he will hear our prayers whenever we come in the name of Jesus. So I'm reluctant to state there to be only one good Mass, but as an individual I would say that I absolutely adore the traditional latin rite, and I think it's a wonderful way of showing respect to God. God Bless all
@sungmoon1987 " i think everyone has a style that suits their own spirituality."
AMEN! I can't get what I want out of just attending one form of the Mass, so I often attend both. I'm thankful that our parish offers both. The EF is probably my favorite, and I'm 31. It's ironic how many younger people are discovering this form of the Mass, and seeing it as what it is, beautiful. The OF is great too, especially when it is celebrated properly. Mass is Mass!
I am an Orthodox Christian, and I find this kind of Mass to be extremely beautiful and moving. Could somebody lead me to some similar videos like this one; but in English? Thank you!
@Protokletos The Masses on EWTN mix English and Latin together, and they're great. They're all Novus Ordo Masses, but they're extremely reverent. I suggest taking a look at some of those.
@dcrippen2000 "sedevacant" = "empty chair" These groups believe there hasn't been a legitimate pope since Pius XII (though some recognize John XXIII...either way doesn't matter). Obviously schismatic
SSPX recognizes all the Popes up to Benedict XVI as legit, but since Archbishop Lefebvre (their founder) consecrated bishops defiantly without permission of Pope John Paul II, it was considered a schismatic act and they were excommunicated.
The Vatican II issue is too complicated to get into.
@Balti50 The kissing of the priest's hand is a respect for his priesthood, for the offering up of the Eucharist, the Body and Blood of Christ.
It may feel weird the first time or two, but after several times it does not bother you. I go to an Eastern church where everyone in the church kisses the priest's hand after venerating the cross following liturgy.
As an Anglican Convert I was received into the Church with an open mind. Our Lady weeps for England her Dowry and St. Denys cries to OLJC for France. Only repentance and Love can bring Europe back to the true Catholic faith. It doesn't matter if we see God in the 'Antique Use' or in a well sung modern mass
Why is this happening? Why are our traditions being stripped away? The Catholic Church seems like a Protestant church nowadays. Why do so many parishes bring in rock bands to play? What the hell is that? Electric distorted guitars have no room in the Church.
Bless Pope Benedict XVI for helping to revive the Extraordinary Mass.
As to those of you opposing the EO Mass, you are heretics who will be damned to Hell.
@John29270 Actually if you are going to Law and MEdicine you probably need to know Latin. And not only that we got a bunch of dumb kids who can't speak english so Latin is the basis for the english language along with SPanish,French, Italian and Portuguese. SO its the language of the Intellectuals.
I find the Novus ordo very boring and speaking from a Young cAtholic point of view.
Your comments condemn you. There is more to the catholic faith than the Latin Mass. There is more than one way of looking at things. What does your baptism say to you?
I agree with the premise of your statement! But for the record, Latin is not the basis of English; Anglo-Saxon and Germanic languages are. English is full of Latin loan words, most of which came into English via the Norman Invasion. But your evaluation of the value of Latin is on point!
Yeah but that's the problem. There are so many Catholics who complain about Latin, but the Jews speak Hebrew and the Muslims, Arabic. Why not have our own language?
I don't complain about Latin. But with the Mass in the vernacular I think this helps participation more fully, helps people/young/new people joining our church to understand the Mass more easily. Good liturgy is important for dialogue with our heavenly Father. Getting obsessed with the Latin can cause us to regard our faith as elitist, our faith as private and personal and deflect from our real mission in the world.
@John29270 Um most of the people who attend the Tridentine MAss are young Catholics. Most of the New vocations are in REligous Orders that celebrate the TRaditional Rite.
@John29270 Actually you do participate in the Traditional LAtin Mass. When we go to the Tridentine MAss, our hearts our united to JEsus Christ at the Foot of the Altar.
Also the Tridentine MAss has inspired Artists, Musicians, Saints many of the Beautiful Missa Cantata were written by Top Composers in Europe along with Artists and the Intellegensia community.
I know, but the one thing I adored about the TLM was that one day a Gautamalan came into my parish, he picked up a Latin-Spanish Missal and for an hour and a half, we spoke the same language. A friend of mine, before he converted, regularly attended TLM together. But, yes getting obsessed with Latin and other pre-Vatican II goodies isn't too healthy for the faith either. I've spoken with sedevacantists who think the faith is just an intellectual chess game.
Our Faith is not a elitist Faith. The Early Monks chanted Latin and Gregorian Chant and many Monastic Communities still chant the Divine Office today. YOu would be suprise to see many Intresting people attracted to the Traditional Latin MAss many with no religious background. Including many young people and more vocations.
The True Mass of the Tridentine Rite unites ourselves to Jesus Christ.
@dcrippen Following the Mass without a prayer sheet makes the dialogue come alive... try it. Study the scripture on Friday evening then listen to the Word proclaimed at Sunday Mass without following it in your missal and God will speak to you vividly.
It's funny because when I asked my priest if he could say a Latin Mass he told me that a 19 year old should not worry about a dead mass and that no one would want to attend. But when I told a few of the people in the parish they all said they would like to have a latin mass. I think most priests are refusing to say the the old mass because they don't know how to speek Latin. It's sad really.
In poor countries very few places can afford to perform the Tridentine mass... if the new mass was taken out, so many parishes would have to close in our 3rd world countries...
Well some exceptions with the Tridentine are made when a Parish cannot afford the a jewl encrested High Altar. Although I am unware of thease exceptions.
When I heard mass in Tours Cathedral in 1966, I was not phased because the order of service was more or less that of a "High" Anglican Cathedral Mass and the kyrie and gloria (sung on this video) were familiar to me.
Not all Anglican churches have this tendancy; far from it! Methodists invite "all ye that love the Lord Jesus" to approach the table and receive communion. this is very sane, it strikes me.
There is something that I have always wondered. How similare is the Anglican service to the Catholic mass? I've heard that it's very close. and do Anglicans Honor Mary?
Order of Service Holy Communion: which one? Several versions are authorised by the Anglican Church including those of 1552, 1662, 1928, the Series 1, 2 3 of the 1960s & 70s etc.
Search Google "Anglicans and Mary".
Wiki has an article "Anglican Marian Theology" and there is a joint Anglican-Catholic document on shared beliefs.
I live near the campus of UNAM in Mexico DF, the only place here that could do it was the Catedral Metropolitina, the small parish I go to here doesn't have the equipment to do it, we can't even find anyone who knows how to sing or play an instrument so I play the guitar and we are trying to sing the best we can.
I am glad that you have the money to travel all around the world. With the wages I make I will be stuck in Districto Federal my whole life I will probably not even see the other states of Mexico...
La gran pregunta, hermano es porque no estaban autorizadas y quien las ha prohibido. Y tambien, hasta cuando las van a autorizar. El dia de mañana las pueden volver a prohibir si asi lo quieren y nos daran una misa pentecostal, una romaxe o una misa kika. Cuidate de las
acechanzas del maligno y ve la enciclica QVO PRIMUM
Todo ello fué desde el Concilio Vaticano II. Benedicto XVI ha autorizado de nuevo las misas Tridentinas, levantando una gran polvareda por parte de los enemigos de siempre de la Iglesia Católica.
The first Christians in the west used Greek for the Mass even though they wouldn't have spoken Greek. It was a sacred language kept for God. In the third century the Mass was translated into a non vernacular latin (with the Kyrie kept in Greek) and has been used throughout the Latin Rite since.
As we can see, sacred languages have always been kept by Christians to give greater worship and exaltation to God, it was the Protestants who said the Mass must be in the vernacular, (cont...)
(...inued) because they didn't believe in the Sacrifice of the Mass and said that the worship "service" is only for the people's benefit and not offered to God. This error was condemned as heresy by the Council of Trent.
Also, I can't imagine a Catholic not knowing what the Agnus Dei means: "Lamb of God, who takest away the sins of the world, have mercy on us!" Odd.
Newton & Descartes (arguably christians, both) wrote and published in latin: but not because it was a sacred language, but a universal one for scholars.
Yes, Latin has also been used in science &c. as a scholarly language, it's also been used as a sacred language by the Catholic Church for nigh on 2000 years.
Also, Sir Isaac Newton was not a Christian, he was a heretic.
He was a Protestant as well as a denier of the Holy Trinity, therefore he was a heretic. Both positions have been condemned as heresies by the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ upon the one Rock, which is St. Peter, and his successors, the popes, which alone has the authority to define dogmas and condemn heresies.
Yes, Peter, who had all the human failings and sins of other men, but still had the authority of pope as given to him by Christ (Mt 16:18-).
Heresy = willfull denial of the dogmas of Christianity, hence, separating onesself from the Church of Christ. It's nothing like racial hatred, we must pray for heretics, that they repent and return to Christ,
Galilei was condemned for heresy for his views on theology and for being traitorous and disrespectful in the extreme to the pope who (cont...)
(...inued) until then had been very supportive to him. Newton lived in Protestant England, I don't believe the Catholic Church condemned him officially.
Christ founded the Sacred Magisterium to pronounce Sacred Dogmas to preserve Truth throughout the centuries until he returns. It's not about bitter old men or anyhing else, it's about preserving the Truth.
Calling me an idiot is just about as useful as my calling you an ignorant bigot.
To find out what Jesus said to his Apostles, you just have to read the Bible, friend. Selection:
- I will make you fishers of men
- Go forth and make disciples of every nation, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit
He was a Jew, a Rabbi, knowing the Old Testament inside out. This larger part of the Bible didn't wait for Jesus to in order to be published, believed and acted upon.
> reporting honest statistics, no matter how painful they have been for British Christianity. 37500 churches were invited to take part, and about half did. Some stark truths of Church attendance between 1998 and 2005:
[...] "The Roman Catholics have recorded the largest drop [...], it has halved over the past sixteen years"
@JSC1401 Actually the Anglican Church is tearing apart. In the United States and England many Anglicans are preparing to be in Full Communion with Rome by Easter. Studying abroand in Europe especially In France and Germany. The Traditional Latin Mass attracts Young Catholics. Traditional Catholicism attracts Vocations to the Religious Life.
@JSC1401 Traditional Catholicism is one of the most dynamic forces in France and also here in the US. Anglicanism is so divided right now. Some Anglicans are joining Rome with an Anglican Rite.
Looking forward to the Day when also the Eastern Churches are in Full Communion with Rome.
Heard the Russian Orthodox Church and the Bulgarian Church is intrested.
@1401JSC Actually the Church is not full of old Bitter Men.
I attended the Latin Mass and the avg. age of the Congregation was about 30 yrs. Old.
going and Studying in France and Europe The Traditional Latin MAss Movement is very Young. YOung French and German Students are very intrested in the Latin MAss.
Don't forget Monks and Monasteries preserved learning and thought and the center of culture in Europe.
@1401JSC Not really When the Barbarians invaded Rome and the Fall of Rome it was Monks who preserved Classical Greek and Latin Writings. Many of the Germanic Tribes were uneducated.
When St. Benedict of Nursia came along he and the Benedictine Monks and the Irish Monks wrote and copied important manuscripts from the Classical Greek and Roman Wrtings.
Without those writing there would be no Western Civilization.
@JSC1401 While Visiting France, I noticed the many of the Churches were empty when I attended a Latin MAss in PAris called Paroisse Saint Eugene-Saint Cecile the Church was packed with Young Catholics.
IT also happend in Nice, Marseilles, and Lyon. Catholics deserved the right to have a Beautiful Liturgy.
Society of St. Pius X is also very strong in France.
A Frenc courtier in about 1680 wrote "in Cathedrals, Abbeys and Chapels throughout the land, on pronounces latin à la française". but, however well-travelled, he could not have visited every single place of worship.
Asserting generalisations is not scientific or convinving. Nor is repeating the same phrase time without number.
@JSC1401 Go to Ecclesia Dei, and the Site PAix Liturgique or Liturgical Peace.
There is also a Good French Traditional Latin MAss called Una Voce Francais.
Una Voce is a group of Laity dedicated to spreading the Traditional Rite.
Actually I live near the State of Nebraska where the Fraternity of St. Peter has a Seminary in Denton. They have to built because of the Large number of candidates.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
The Blessed Virgin is only one of many souls who (we hope) died in the faith and may be an intercessor. However, she herself will not reply. You should be proaying to God!
Right we should be praying to God, But there is this book called "SPirtual Devotion to MAry" By St. Louis MArie de Monfort. Mary is the NEw Ark of the Covenant the NEw EVe who crush the serpents Head. I don't understand why you put "WE hope" she is an intercessor? Are you even CAtholic? If not then fine, but if you are maybe you need to be closer to your faith. Happy FEast of the Immacuate Conception.
How is the Blessed Virgin "WE hope" she is an intercesor?
ARe you even CAtholic. Isn't MAry the NEw Eve the NEw ARk of the Covenant the SAme MAry who bore our Lord JEsus Christ the Bread of Life. Great book called "Spiritual Devotion to MAry" by St. Louis MArie de Monfort.
Off course it is! Our LAdy is the New Ark of the Covenant its in the CAtechism and the writings of Athanisuis of Alexandria and the early Church fathers.
You can find many, many books, research, government papers, laws, information and disinformation on internet, but much more than you can find in school or in a public library.
Culture is not only a question of the conventions of a language, which BTW is not the same as even 300 years ago.
How do you translate
Pollution, computer, iPod into latin?
Yes, the latin sung mass is very beautiful. But not the only liturgy possible.
@1401JSC Sir I think the Only one who is bitter is you? People who speak against something have experience a negative experience.
I am a former Atheist who became a Catholic a few years back. As a Convert to Catholicism THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS ALOT TO SAY TO THE WORLD. I started reading the Writings of Edith Stein and Thomas Aquinas.
When I attend my first Tridentine Mass i Was amazed of the BEAUTY AND PASSION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
@1401JSC Traditional Catholic Religous orders are attracting a lot of Vocations. look at your own backyard of France.
Religous Orders like Fraternity of St. Peter, Institute of Bon Pasteur and Institute Christ the King are attracting young men to the Priesthood and runnign out of room because of too many candidates.
SSPX also is attracting Young men. In the US Latin MAsses have increased from 200 to nearly 400 places also in France!
1401JSC, you said Jesus never said of the Trinity "three in one & one in three". Let me ask you, did Jesus also told his Apostles to write everything all the account of his ministry? Did he told them to write the BIBLE and told them that all his follower will only need this book in order to be saved?
@1401JSC When Rome fell by the Barbarians in 476 AD. The age referred to the Dark AGes. Dr. Thomas Woods a Harvard Professor said that it wasn't for the Monks Europe would be in the Dark Ages until the Renaissance period.
If the Catholic Church was dark and gloomy why did the Church started the University System?
University of OXford,Paris, University of Salamanca and dozens of other Universites of Europe.
If they brought this mass back into the Church and all the parishes the world will be sanctifyed and there will be more vocations to the priesthood and the catholic church will triumpth!
Your dad is a bunch of fairy tales bastard. Dont visit the site if you wanna insult the Christian religion. This is so beautiful, its worth is more than your life.
Ireland's Catholics finally informed of extent of sexual abuse of their children by the representatives of the "One True Church."
"Bishop Pat Buckley said an extremely conservative estimate was that one in 10 of the 5,000 Catholic priests in Ireland enjoyed regular sex with women and some even referred to their clerical collar as the "bird catcher" ...40 per cent of the Catholic clergy in Ireland were sexually active."
Google "Hundreds of Irish Catholic priests implicated in child abuse"
Amen baldwalrus, but let me ask you, if you know my friend, didn't the pope lift the excommunications so that they are now in FULL communion with rome, meaning the sacraments they give are valid, and they are no longer illicit?
Well, Cardinal de Hoyos said they aren't in schism but they aren't in full communion with the Church yet. Their Sacraments have always been valid as far as I'm aware (Orthodox Sacraments are valid). They're kind of in a canonical grey area, so it's probably best if you go to a different traditionalist society (e.g. FSSP etc.).
Very very wonderful this IS the true mass!
Dominus Vobiscum to all.
19081927modeltfan 3 days ago
@19081927modeltfan Et cum espiritu tuo!
Archzenom 3 days ago
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19081927modeltfan 3 days ago
I prefer Novus Ordo.
I love the Tridentine Latin mass, but I'm saddened when I realize I'm sitting in a church full of borderline sedevacantists.
Rejoice in the Lord, and serve him though his Gospel after the mass. Don't be carried away by aesthetics.
TurboVW2004 4 days ago
Gratias! I love this especially the Gloria in Excelsis Deo part. So awesome. I wish that my parish brings this back once or 12 times a year.
Archzenom 1 month ago
@Archzenom yes me too but it requires many different objects that changed. but iam sure if you church use this rite once they still have the stuff because you can not chuck out most of the stuff they use it is sacred. Dominus Vobiscum
19081927modeltfan 3 days ago
@19081927modeltfan Well, I am aware of how sacred it is but sadly, we need Latin to return at full power to all of the churches that are under the Holy See, every Catholic parishes so that we will have a sense of unity in language but that doesn't mean that we won't use the vernacular. Vernacular is useful in everyday communication and also, et cum espiritu tuo!
Archzenom 3 days ago
nobody understands the true glory of the latin mass, i wish our church would bring it back. there are butefuial photos of the latin altar from the 50's but they still own all the supplies i wish they would bring it back
19081927modeltfan 3 months ago
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It was imposed on me in baptism and as a child. It was imposed on me when I went to sunday school and go thru confirmation(which I railed against as a 13 yr old on the grounds that there was no evidence to support this or any gods). Its imposed on me when I drive down EVERY road and see the churches, mosques, synagogues, and have to read their silly signs (God is Nowhere? Or Now Here?) Duh. It needs to be erased forever because religion IS mental illness.
ReasonableAtheist 4 months ago
The Catholic Church should use this Mass, but in the local language of the people.
Protokletos 6 months ago
its time for reason to prevail, and for logical people to destroy the savage cave men who are afraid of thunder and lightning- c'mon, we both know its not "god."
ReasonableAtheist 6 months ago
@ReasonableAtheist Actually we have use logic some of the greatest champions of Faith and reason are Thomas Aquinas and Cardinal Newman. And what is wrong with Latin? Don't most languages of the Western World has roots in Latin? Latin is the language of Academia, science, scholars, and the Ancients. Its part of the WEstern Heritage. Besides the analogy of the cave is probably written in Greek and then into Latin.
latinflava05 5 months ago
@latinflava05
Faith is not a subset of logic. Faith and logic are completely at odds with each other, in fact, faith means: "belief that is not based on proof" which is 100% illogical.
Nobody has a problem with latin. wtf?
ReasonableAtheist 5 months ago
@ReasonableAtheist Faith is beyond reason but it can be rational. The 5 proofs for God's existence accord to St Thomas Aquinas are more than rational ways to know that there is a transcendent being above the material universe, out of which all things owe their existence to. This being is called God and was made a man in the person of Christ and was humiliated on a Cross. You claim to want proof, yet there is reason. Science cannot prove the supernatural because that is beyond its limits.
AdversusHaereses 4 months ago
@AdversusHaereses
ra·tion·al means agreeable to reason; reasonable; sensible: "a rational plan for economic development."
Synonyms - intelligent, wise, judicious, sagacious, enlightened.
Since there's no evidence or reason to assume any god exists, and since "supernatural" is a word to describe stuff that is actually make-believe in every sense of the words, no, I disagree with you that faith can be rational. It can not. You're justifying your "gut feelings" that god is real.
ReasonableAtheist 4 months ago
@ReasonableAtheist I don't think that believing in the credibility of deductive arguments for God's existence is anything to do with wishful thinking. In fact if you read the 5 ways of St Thomas Aquinas, the ontological argument of St Anselm, the Kalam Cosmological argument and many other rational proofs for God's existence, you will see that such a being is more than necessary to explain the intricacy of the universe and why there is something rather than nothing.
AdversusHaereses 4 months ago
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@ReasonableAtheist I don't think that believing in the credibility of deductive arguments for God's existence is anything to do with wishful thinking. In fact if you read the 5 ways of St Thomas Aquinas, the ontological argument of St Anselm, the Kalam Cosmological argument and many other rational proofs for God's existence, you will see that such a being is more than necessary to explain the intricacy of the universe and why there is something rather than nothing.
AdversusHaereses 4 months ago
this is why i want to become catholic! the divine mass.
henrikhankhagnell 8 months ago 2
O that Western civilisation would save itself by this means.
MrGoblin60 9 months ago 5
Sorry interupted by domestic query.
should read... therefore of God. Writen the Feast of the Annunciation and the English ( Old Calendar) New Years Eve.
idle44 10 months ago
GLORIA TIBI DOMINE, THIS IS ONE OF MY FAVORITE INTROITS
InChristoRege118 11 months ago
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assasincomedy 11 months ago
I thought he was nodding off to sleep at 6:28
TheOrville1992 1 year ago
@TheOrville1992 NOPE, RUBRICS SAY WE MUST BOW AT THE NAME OF JESUS, WELL NOT EVEN RUBRICS BUT HOLY SCRIPTURE ITSELF, AT THE NAME OF JESUS EVERY KNEE SHALL BEND
InChristoRege118 11 months ago
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TheOrville1992 1 year ago
Not from a spiritual but historic point of view, Vatican II might lead to the destruction of the Roman Catholic Church [certainly its decline] because we are now widely divided so called "progressives" who are regressing into the Protestantism & the Catholics that stand by the TRUE form of the Faith. The traditionals who actually want to preserve Catholicism and practice it the way that God intended [imagine that! Catholics that actually LIKE Catholicism- is it so hard to believe that we exist?
omGOP3 1 year ago
@spitzer72 Yes I accept that, and it's good to quote people, and I see the good in you stating which mass is right and which is not right, I for one would love my priest to be more strict in church and to offer up the more holy Tridentine mass alot more often; but I just can't get around people saying which one is right without acknowledging that in the end, it is God's decision. By saying only one mass is right, it's implying that other's can't share in the grace of God, and can't enter heaven.
sungmoon1987 1 year ago
@spitzer72 How does God react in this situation where some people receive the right sacraments in the wrong setting, and how He reacts when some people receive the wrong sacraments (Without the right priest or the right mass) but with a purely open and willing heart to God; is entirely up to him. Although I recognise some of the points you might make, we should'nt be so proud as to say which is the right mass as it might imply some people are'nt receiving God's grace.
sungmoon1987 1 year ago
@spitzer72 Yes I agree with you, but I don't think God is ignorant. He knows whether people do things innocently, and whether they do it with an open heart when receiving any sacrament. I mean, some people who adore the tridentine mass (Which I think is the best mass of all, and the only true mass) receive the sacraments without any respect. Yet with some other masses, or even other denominations of the Christian spetrum, people are receiving with a strong desire (Especially the youth)
sungmoon1987 1 year ago
What is so evident to me, is that in the midst of the very Europe where so many churches are empty, this parish is full and it is not limited to just this parish and so this begs the question, why??! The Mystery of the Mass as it should be allows the Holy Spirit to work powerfully.
jeff62rey 1 year ago
Comment removed
assasincomedy 1 year ago
@assasincomedy
"Fire and brimstone" is more Protestant, particularly Calvinist... which eventually evolved into the mess that many people in the US consider to be Christianity.
ikgrande 1 year ago
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assasincomedy 1 year ago
scribd (dot) com/nb812
DreamsofMajesty 1 year ago
Why do people insist on bringing back this old skeleton and corpse of a liturgy. This is not where the Church is- all those old moth-stricken fiddlebacks, lace, and biretta's. The Church is with the youth in its praise and worship, guitar Masses, clown Masses, and the Novus Ordo- NOT this "Old Mass"....you people need to get with the times!!!
polakmax 1 year ago
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assasincomedy 1 year ago
@polakmax Excuse me but the new liturgy is very similar to a protestant service. It is radically different to the Tridentine Liturgy. The prayers were stripped out and it dumbed down Catholicism. This mass converted Nations and Saints celebrated it. Always in history, it has been culture and the world that has been shaped by Catholicism, why? Because the Church's transcendence speaks unto the world, however if we incorporate the world in us, we lose the faith of the apostles.
AdversusHaereses 1 year ago
@AdversusHaereses Did you see the Mass offered by H H Benedict XVI in Westminster Cathedral last year? Latin, Plain song, good hymns, Boys choir ( how many countries have those in the Cathedrals and larger parish churches?), trumpets et al. The Mass lives in all its forms because it is of the Church and therefore of GO
God.
idle44 10 months ago
@polakmax i think everyone has a style that suits their own spirituality. I myself am 23, and I find the Latin Mass or Old Mass much more appealing to me. But the point is'nt what mass is best, rather, God has promised he will hear our prayers whenever we come in the name of Jesus. So I'm reluctant to state there to be only one good Mass, but as an individual I would say that I absolutely adore the traditional latin rite, and I think it's a wonderful way of showing respect to God. God Bless all
sungmoon1987 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@sungmoon1987 " i think everyone has a style that suits their own spirituality."
AMEN! I can't get what I want out of just attending one form of the Mass, so I often attend both. I'm thankful that our parish offers both. The EF is probably my favorite, and I'm 31. It's ironic how many younger people are discovering this form of the Mass, and seeing it as what it is, beautiful. The OF is great too, especially when it is celebrated properly. Mass is Mass!
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
I am an Orthodox Christian, and I find this kind of Mass to be extremely beautiful and moving. Could somebody lead me to some similar videos like this one; but in English? Thank you!
Protokletos 1 year ago
@Protokletos The Masses on EWTN mix English and Latin together, and they're great. They're all Novus Ordo Masses, but they're extremely reverent. I suggest taking a look at some of those.
LouisvilleTorn8o 11 months ago
Who posted this thing here?
ezestc 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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AzerChristians 1 year ago
Feels like the way Mass should be....There just seems to be so much more respect and reverence in this type of Mass, in contrast with a modern Mass.
MrProCatholic 1 year ago
Let us pray for celebrating The Traditional Latin Mass Tridentine 1962 in every parish in Indonesia
arends99 1 year ago
We are so lucky in Mankato Minnesota to have the Tridentine rite on the first Saturday of every month.Never miss it. Father Tom is the best.
MANKATO311 1 year ago
Jesus is the Fucking Christ no matter WHAT language you say it in! Alleluia sisters and brothers!
joetheli0n 1 year ago
where do I find Latin Mass in Atlanta?
mrstjs 1 year ago
@mrstjs St Francis de Sales, 587 Landers Drive, Mableton, Georgia. They are FSSP, so not SSPX or schismatic
jmf43 1 year ago
@jmf43 Thank you and God bless you
mrstjs 1 year ago
okay haha thanks.. but i cant get a clear answer on this.. Whats the difference between the SSPX and sedevacantists?
dcrippen2000 1 year ago
@dcrippen2000 "sedevacant" = "empty chair" These groups believe there hasn't been a legitimate pope since Pius XII (though some recognize John XXIII...either way doesn't matter). Obviously schismatic
SSPX recognizes all the Popes up to Benedict XVI as legit, but since Archbishop Lefebvre (their founder) consecrated bishops defiantly without permission of Pope John Paul II, it was considered a schismatic act and they were excommunicated.
The Vatican II issue is too complicated to get into.
jmf43 1 year ago
@jmf43 the excommunications of LeFebvre have formally been lifted
Logg66 1 year ago
is this sedavatacanist??
dcrippen2000 1 year ago
@dcrippen2000 Nope, SSPX.
rpgabc123 1 year ago
I just don't like the priests hand is kissed. I'm an interested ministrant but think I would have problems to do this...
Balti50 1 year ago
@Balti50 The kissing of the priest's hand is a respect for his priesthood, for the offering up of the Eucharist, the Body and Blood of Christ.
It may feel weird the first time or two, but after several times it does not bother you. I go to an Eastern church where everyone in the church kisses the priest's hand after venerating the cross following liturgy.
StealthGoblin1 1 year ago
@StealthGoblin1 I would have to say, that when I first served the MC position in the TLM, the solita, never felt weird at all.
rpgabc123 1 year ago
What a moving and lovely mass
Tomas21052 1 year ago
I can hear this choirs over and over again. this is wonderfull
tribunomex 1 year ago
As an Anglican Convert I was received into the Church with an open mind. Our Lady weeps for England her Dowry and St. Denys cries to OLJC for France. Only repentance and Love can bring Europe back to the true Catholic faith. It doesn't matter if we see God in the 'Antique Use' or in a well sung modern mass
idle44 1 year ago
Amen, beautiful Mass.
RedBloodedShqiponja 1 year ago
if you have a missal for the tridentine calender, it translates everything said.
dcrippen2000 2 years ago
@dcrippen I loved the Tridentine as a youngster... I have learnt to love the vernacular.. I don't think the average catholic will now want the Latin.
John29270 2 years ago
Why is this happening? Why are our traditions being stripped away? The Catholic Church seems like a Protestant church nowadays. Why do so many parishes bring in rock bands to play? What the hell is that? Electric distorted guitars have no room in the Church.
Bless Pope Benedict XVI for helping to revive the Extraordinary Mass.
As to those of you opposing the EO Mass, you are heretics who will be damned to Hell.
stealthkiller2107 2 years ago
@John29270 Actually if you are going to Law and MEdicine you probably need to know Latin. And not only that we got a bunch of dumb kids who can't speak english so Latin is the basis for the english language along with SPanish,French, Italian and Portuguese. SO its the language of the Intellectuals.
I find the Novus ordo very boring and speaking from a Young cAtholic point of view.
latinflava05 1 year ago 17
@latinflava05
Your comments condemn you. There is more to the catholic faith than the Latin Mass. There is more than one way of looking at things. What does your baptism say to you?
John29270 1 year ago
@John29270
Sorry @latinflava05 my repost was directed to stealthbomber. However, first half may apply to your leaning.
John29270 1 year ago
@latinflava05
I agree with the premise of your statement! But for the record, Latin is not the basis of English; Anglo-Saxon and Germanic languages are. English is full of Latin loan words, most of which came into English via the Norman Invasion. But your evaluation of the value of Latin is on point!
calebrochling 1 year ago
John29270
Yeah but that's the problem. There are so many Catholics who complain about Latin, but the Jews speak Hebrew and the Muslims, Arabic. Why not have our own language?
PS I've also come to grips with the NO.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
@TenderTrap86
I don't complain about Latin. But with the Mass in the vernacular I think this helps participation more fully, helps people/young/new people joining our church to understand the Mass more easily. Good liturgy is important for dialogue with our heavenly Father. Getting obsessed with the Latin can cause us to regard our faith as elitist, our faith as private and personal and deflect from our real mission in the world.
John29270 1 year ago
@John29270 Um most of the people who attend the Tridentine MAss are young Catholics. Most of the New vocations are in REligous Orders that celebrate the TRaditional Rite.
latinflava05 1 year ago
@latinflava05
Like me i LOVE IT :D cant go every sunday but try. :)
GodTowardSociety 1 year ago
@John29270 Actually you do participate in the Traditional LAtin Mass. When we go to the Tridentine MAss, our hearts our united to JEsus Christ at the Foot of the Altar.
Also the Tridentine MAss has inspired Artists, Musicians, Saints many of the Beautiful Missa Cantata were written by Top Composers in Europe along with Artists and the Intellegensia community.
latinflava05 1 year ago
John29270
I know, but the one thing I adored about the TLM was that one day a Gautamalan came into my parish, he picked up a Latin-Spanish Missal and for an hour and a half, we spoke the same language. A friend of mine, before he converted, regularly attended TLM together. But, yes getting obsessed with Latin and other pre-Vatican II goodies isn't too healthy for the faith either. I've spoken with sedevacantists who think the faith is just an intellectual chess game.
TenderTrap86 1 year ago
Our Faith is not a elitist Faith. The Early Monks chanted Latin and Gregorian Chant and many Monastic Communities still chant the Divine Office today. YOu would be suprise to see many Intresting people attracted to the Traditional Latin MAss many with no religious background. Including many young people and more vocations.
The True Mass of the Tridentine Rite unites ourselves to Jesus Christ.
latinflava05 1 year ago 16
@dcrippen Following the Mass without a prayer sheet makes the dialogue come alive... try it. Study the scripture on Friday evening then listen to the Word proclaimed at Sunday Mass without following it in your missal and God will speak to you vividly.
John29270 1 year ago
@John29270 Read Mediator Dei by Pius XII.
rpgabc123 1 year ago
How many people can this church fit?
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
As to Ste Thérèse being sick: she suffered much from Tuberculosis.
JSC1401 2 years ago
It's funny because when I asked my priest if he could say a Latin Mass he told me that a 19 year old should not worry about a dead mass and that no one would want to attend. But when I told a few of the people in the parish they all said they would like to have a latin mass. I think most priests are refusing to say the the old mass because they don't know how to speek Latin. It's sad really.
79743618 2 years ago
In poor countries very few places can afford to perform the Tridentine mass... if the new mass was taken out, so many parishes would have to close in our 3rd world countries...
CommieThreat 2 years ago
Well some exceptions with the Tridentine are made when a Parish cannot afford the a jewl encrested High Altar. Although I am unware of thease exceptions.
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
I'd like to know these exceptions. I know the little parishes I attend here in Mexico could never accommodate for one of these Tridentine masses.
CommieThreat 2 years ago
Well, truly I have no idea what sort of exceptions could be made.
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
But they exceptions exist?
I'll admit, it is beautiful. Anglican churches these days are high as this mass. Strange how history works no?
CommieThreat 2 years ago
True, I also like the Anglican/Episcopal Traditional Mass. With this whole thing about the Pope and the Anglican Church I'll be able to go one day.
dacatholicbandorgan 2 years ago
When I heard mass in Tours Cathedral in 1966, I was not phased because the order of service was more or less that of a "High" Anglican Cathedral Mass and the kyrie and gloria (sung on this video) were familiar to me.
Not all Anglican churches have this tendancy; far from it! Methodists invite "all ye that love the Lord Jesus" to approach the table and receive communion. this is very sane, it strikes me.
1401JSC 2 years ago
There is something that I have always wondered. How similare is the Anglican service to the Catholic mass? I've heard that it's very close. and do Anglicans Honor Mary?
79743618 2 years ago
Order of Service Holy Communion: which one? Several versions are authorised by the Anglican Church including those of 1552, 1662, 1928, the Series 1, 2 3 of the 1960s & 70s etc.
Search Google "Anglicans and Mary".
Wiki has an article "Anglican Marian Theology" and there is a joint Anglican-Catholic document on shared beliefs.
1401JSC 2 years ago
@CommieThreat The Tridentien Mass is not based on who can afford or not afford.
There are Latin MAsses in the Philippines and its simple too.
latinflava05 2 years ago
How? Nobody knows how to chant or sing, including the priest and nobody can play the organ, incense is unaffordable, the altar is too elaborate
CommieThreat 2 years ago
Are you saying that people in the third World Countries can't sing or chant?
There are Tridentine LAtin Masses celebrated in a chapel in the middle of Johannasberg, South Africa.
The Altar was simple and the vestments were donated.
The choir was made of Black South Africans singing the Introit and the Aspereges me.
I can tell you black Africans are one of the most best singers in the world.
They know how to sing Gregorian Chant.
I have been to LAtin Masses in the Philippines!
latinflava05 2 years ago
I live near the campus of UNAM in Mexico DF, the only place here that could do it was the Catedral Metropolitina, the small parish I go to here doesn't have the equipment to do it, we can't even find anyone who knows how to sing or play an instrument so I play the guitar and we are trying to sing the best we can.
CommieThreat 2 years ago
I am glad that you have the money to travel all around the world. With the wages I make I will be stuck in Districto Federal my whole life I will probably not even see the other states of Mexico...
CommieThreat 2 years ago
There are Latin MAsses in Nairobi, KEnya in a Chapel.
The MAss was beautiful and the Choir made up of neighbors were wonderful.
I have been to Latin Masses in KEnya, Philippines, India, South Africa and ARgentina.
It was beautiful and how do you know you never been to any of the countries.
latinflava05 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Interesting archeological document.
MrQuebec 2 years ago
You are wrong, bloke. This is very much alive and well. Just keep playing with your toy gun.
ixtoc999 2 years ago
Mi estimado amigo ixtoc, dónde nos fuimos a encontrar por obra de la casualidad.
Estoy fascinado viendo estas misas hermosas y momumentales de las que tanto me habías platicado.
Es el espectáculo más hermoso que hubiesen presenciado estos ojos que se han de comer los gusanos.
Ya han sido plenamente autorizadas y debo asistir a ellas sin falta.
Muchos saludos y que Dios te bendiga por siempre.
BrigadierCristero 2 years ago
La gran pregunta, hermano es porque no estaban autorizadas y quien las ha prohibido. Y tambien, hasta cuando las van a autorizar. El dia de mañana las pueden volver a prohibir si asi lo quieren y nos daran una misa pentecostal, una romaxe o una misa kika. Cuidate de las
acechanzas del maligno y ve la enciclica QVO PRIMUM
TEMPORE. PAX.
ixtoc999 2 years ago
Todo ello fué desde el Concilio Vaticano II. Benedicto XVI ha autorizado de nuevo las misas Tridentinas, levantando una gran polvareda por parte de los enemigos de siempre de la Iglesia Católica.
Saludos y que Dios te bendiga.
BrigadierCristero 2 years ago
To be authentically modern is, in each and every age, a sign of mediocrity.
Nicolás Gómez Dávila (1913-1994)
karafuto86 2 years ago
I must say that the interesting archeological item, is your empty soul.
BrigadierCristero 2 years ago
Enough. Why persist in hate-mongering, has the world too few evils and too much good for you?
TransLorentz 2 years ago 3
Who mentioned anything about the Jews? I didn't. Why did you bring up Rabbi sex abuse? What does this have to do with your fringe order?
Raffzeee 2 years ago
Comment removed
rhbalduino 2 years ago
That is very incorrect and offencive,leave youtube now if you wish to promote anti-christain biggotry.
ChristainPatriot01 2 years ago
I can well believe it. I should think Richard Williamson himself is a gay.
Raffzeee 2 years ago
Very pretty picture of the Misal at 4:34, but this is not the incantation of the Gloria as sung by the priest!
Very glad to hear the congregation singing in alternance with the choir.
Does the Traditonal Church count Sundays after Pentacost or after Trinity?
What justifies praying in Latin and reading the Bible in French?
1401JSC 2 years ago
@ 1401JSC
Sundays are counted after Pentecost.
The Mass is prayed in Latin to give greater worship and glory to God. The Mass is given to God, not directed towards the people.
162ALAN162 2 years ago
Thanks.I should have looked this up in my prewar missals.
Sorry but no for the latin.
The only reason to pray, sing and celebrate in latin WAS that it was a 'universal' language.
However a 40 year old friend can sing the Agnus Dei, but has no idea what it means!
Latin was not the first language used by Christans. Were early believers not able to give worship & glory to God?
"Do this in remembrance of me" is directed towards believers, I'd say.
1401JSC 2 years ago
The first Christians in the west used Greek for the Mass even though they wouldn't have spoken Greek. It was a sacred language kept for God. In the third century the Mass was translated into a non vernacular latin (with the Kyrie kept in Greek) and has been used throughout the Latin Rite since.
As we can see, sacred languages have always been kept by Christians to give greater worship and exaltation to God, it was the Protestants who said the Mass must be in the vernacular, (cont...)
162ALAN162 2 years ago
(...inued) because they didn't believe in the Sacrifice of the Mass and said that the worship "service" is only for the people's benefit and not offered to God. This error was condemned as heresy by the Council of Trent.
Also, I can't imagine a Catholic not knowing what the Agnus Dei means: "Lamb of God, who takest away the sins of the world, have mercy on us!" Odd.
162ALAN162 2 years ago
Newton & Descartes (arguably christians, both) wrote and published in latin: but not because it was a sacred language, but a universal one for scholars.
strange about the Greek Kyrie....
1401JSC 2 years ago
Yes, Latin has also been used in science &c. as a scholarly language, it's also been used as a sacred language by the Catholic Church for nigh on 2000 years.
Also, Sir Isaac Newton was not a Christian, he was a heretic.
162ALAN162 2 years ago
Heretic?
I can find no public declaration of his renunciation of Biblical stements...
Jesus never said, for example, of the Trinity "three in one and one in three".
1401JSC 2 years ago
He was a Protestant as well as a denier of the Holy Trinity, therefore he was a heretic. Both positions have been condemned as heresies by the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ upon the one Rock, which is St. Peter, and his successors, the popes, which alone has the authority to define dogmas and condemn heresies.
162ALAN162 2 years ago
Peter, the rock who denied Jesus three times to save his skin?
Heresy = you're not like me.
It's akin to racial hatred, exclusion, unequal rights.
The Catholic Church condemned Galileo and Newton for their science instead of discussing and learning to live with new thoughts.
This church is full of old, bitter men preaching dogma instead of belief, assuming authority instead of encouraging autonomy & responsability.
This is not the fine example that Jesus would have wished.
Dying.
1401JSC 2 years ago
Yes, Peter, who had all the human failings and sins of other men, but still had the authority of pope as given to him by Christ (Mt 16:18-).
Heresy = willfull denial of the dogmas of Christianity, hence, separating onesself from the Church of Christ. It's nothing like racial hatred, we must pray for heretics, that they repent and return to Christ,
Galilei was condemned for heresy for his views on theology and for being traitorous and disrespectful in the extreme to the pope who (cont...)
162ALAN162 2 years ago
(...inued) until then had been very supportive to him. Newton lived in Protestant England, I don't believe the Catholic Church condemned him officially.
Christ founded the Sacred Magisterium to pronounce Sacred Dogmas to preserve Truth throughout the centuries until he returns. It's not about bitter old men or anyhing else, it's about preserving the Truth.
162ALAN162 2 years ago
The Truth?
Of Phraisees? Saducees? Rebels (like Barabas)? Reformists (like Christ)?
"What is truth?"
Truth is what is necessarily universal and universally necessary (Kant).
But in reality, it is always a compromise of agreement between men.
1401JSC 2 years ago
Truth is reality. Christ has revealed the Truth through His Holy Church, which preserves that truth through the centuries, just as He promised.
162ALAN162 2 years ago
1401JSC, you are such an idiot.
RANIPOE 2 years ago
Calling me an idiot is just about as useful as my calling you an ignorant bigot.
To find out what Jesus said to his Apostles, you just have to read the Bible, friend. Selection:
- I will make you fishers of men
- Go forth and make disciples of every nation, baptising them in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit
He was a Jew, a Rabbi, knowing the Old Testament inside out. This larger part of the Bible didn't wait for Jesus to in order to be published, believed and acted upon.
1401JSC 2 years ago
@1401JSC That Men make mistakes. And Also there are other Rites in the Church like the Byzantine Rite and the Chaldean Rite in IRaq besides Latin.
Lets not Forget the Anglican Church is dying because they following the Secular trends.
Whats in and fashionable may not be the same in 20 years. That is Moral Relativism there is no absolute Truth.
latinflava05 2 years ago
Why pick on Anglicans?
Google search "Decline Anglican Church"
first link (worship in England)
> reporting honest statistics, no matter how painful they have been for British Christianity. 37500 churches were invited to take part, and about half did. Some stark truths of Church attendance between 1998 and 2005:
[...] "The Roman Catholics have recorded the largest drop [...], it has halved over the past sixteen years"
JSC1401 2 years ago
@JSC1401 Actually the Anglican Church is tearing apart. In the United States and England many Anglicans are preparing to be in Full Communion with Rome by Easter. Studying abroand in Europe especially In France and Germany. The Traditional Latin Mass attracts Young Catholics. Traditional Catholicism attracts Vocations to the Religious Life.
latinflava05 2 years ago
@JSC1401 Traditional Catholicism is one of the most dynamic forces in France and also here in the US. Anglicanism is so divided right now. Some Anglicans are joining Rome with an Anglican Rite.
Looking forward to the Day when also the Eastern Churches are in Full Communion with Rome.
Heard the Russian Orthodox Church and the Bulgarian Church is intrested.
I guess Traditionalism is making a big Comeback!
latinflava05 2 years ago
"Guess" is the word.
I wonder what criteria and statistics you think you're basing your assertions on.
JSC1401 2 years ago
@1401JSC Actually The Catholic Church was the inspiration of the Founding of the Universities like Paris, OXford, and University of Salamanca.
The Catholic Church contributed to ARt, Architecture, Music, Baroque, Canon Law, International law.
It was Irish Monks and Benedictine Monks who copied Classical Greek And ROman writings after the Fall of Rome.
Monks in France and Germany taught Agriculture in Germany and Britian.
latinflava05 2 years ago
@1401JSC Actually the Church is not full of old Bitter Men.
I attended the Latin Mass and the avg. age of the Congregation was about 30 yrs. Old.
going and Studying in France and Europe The Traditional Latin MAss Movement is very Young. YOung French and German Students are very intrested in the Latin MAss.
Don't forget Monks and Monasteries preserved learning and thought and the center of culture in Europe.
You need to know Latin in law and medicine.
latinflava05 2 years ago
I agree with all you say. But you don't answer my point about the relevance of the Church in our day and age.
Personally, I know a lot of bitter ld men in the Catholic Church and... maybe 5% of ....open-minded believers.
In 2009, I feel that internet preserves culture and learning....
1401JSC 2 years ago
@1401JSC Not really When the Barbarians invaded Rome and the Fall of Rome it was Monks who preserved Classical Greek and Latin Writings. Many of the Germanic Tribes were uneducated.
When St. Benedict of Nursia came along he and the Benedictine Monks and the Irish Monks wrote and copied important manuscripts from the Classical Greek and Roman Wrtings.
Without those writing there would be no Western Civilization.
latinflava05 2 years ago
You seem to be reciting a lesson.
"Without those....."
Have you studied Viking culture and artifacts? Runes are as important as Egyptian hieroglyphics in the influences on our culture.
The big thing to rember is
- civilisations decline and fall (Gibbons)
- the Church hid and hides many books from the general public. It only disseminates the learning that is useful to its interests.
- Egypt, Greece and, in part, Rome did not car for our God.
1401JSC 2 years ago
@1401JSC You are diminishing the FAct that Europe was born ou of the Monastaries. Monks were the most educated people in Europe at that Time.
There is a Great Book called How the Catholic Church built Western Civilization by Thomas Woods.
latinflava05 2 years ago
I thought the only Great Book (capital letters) was the Bible!
Still, if Woods says it, it must be gospel truth. ;p
JSC1401 2 years ago
@JSC1401 While Visiting France, I noticed the many of the Churches were empty when I attended a Latin MAss in PAris called Paroisse Saint Eugene-Saint Cecile the Church was packed with Young Catholics.
IT also happend in Nice, Marseilles, and Lyon. Catholics deserved the right to have a Beautiful Liturgy.
Society of St. Pius X is also very strong in France.
latinflava05 2 years ago
A Frenc courtier in about 1680 wrote "in Cathedrals, Abbeys and Chapels throughout the land, on pronounces latin à la française". but, however well-travelled, he could not have visited every single place of worship.
Asserting generalisations is not scientific or convinving. Nor is repeating the same phrase time without number.
JSC1401 2 years ago
@JSC1401 Go to Ecclesia Dei, and the Site PAix Liturgique or Liturgical Peace.
There is also a Good French Traditional Latin MAss called Una Voce Francais.
Una Voce is a group of Laity dedicated to spreading the Traditional Rite.
Actually I live near the State of Nebraska where the Fraternity of St. Peter has a Seminary in Denton. They have to built because of the Large number of candidates.
latinflava05 2 years ago
Catholics "deserve"?
Who said 'there is no more fervent a bigot than a convert'?
JSC1401 2 years ago
@JSC1401 Yes How is Loving the Traditional Latin Mass being a Bigot?
so if You want to Expose more Catholics to the Extraordinary form of the Roman Rite then you are a Bigot?
latinflava05 2 years ago
Bigot (Collins) : one who is intolerant of any ideas other than his own.
Usually goes with being narrow-minded and petty.
JSC1401 2 years ago
Um again how is wanting to worship in the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite considered a bigot.
YOu didn't answer my question. No one is putting a gun to your head and forcing you to attend one.
Whats wrong with exposing more Catholics to the Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite.
I felts sad for you and pray to the Blessed Virgin for you. You sound very bitter and angry.
latinflava05 2 years ago
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The Blessed Virgin is only one of many souls who (we hope) died in the faith and may be an intercessor. However, she herself will not reply. You should be proaying to God!
JSC1401 2 years ago
Right we should be praying to God, But there is this book called "SPirtual Devotion to MAry" By St. Louis MArie de Monfort. Mary is the NEw Ark of the Covenant the NEw EVe who crush the serpents Head. I don't understand why you put "WE hope" she is an intercessor? Are you even CAtholic? If not then fine, but if you are maybe you need to be closer to your faith. Happy FEast of the Immacuate Conception.
latinflava05 2 years ago
How is the Blessed Virgin "WE hope" she is an intercesor?
ARe you even CAtholic. Isn't MAry the NEw Eve the NEw ARk of the Covenant the SAme MAry who bore our Lord JEsus Christ the Bread of Life. Great book called "Spiritual Devotion to MAry" by St. Louis MArie de Monfort.
latinflava05 2 years ago
> Isn't MAry the NEw Eve the NEw ARk of the Covenant
this is absolutely NOT Catholic doctrine!
Your strange ideas are well expressed by your strange control of your keyboard.
JSC1401 2 years ago
Off course it is! Our LAdy is the New Ark of the Covenant its in the CAtechism and the writings of Athanisuis of Alexandria and the early Church fathers.
latinflava05 2 years ago
Maybe your basic limited knowledge on Catholicism expresed by your strance control of the keyboard you can't think clearly!
Sancata Maria ORa Pro Nobis!
latinflava05 2 years ago
@1401JSC You talk about the internet but many of my friends don't seem to be literate in the English Language.
How is it the Internet Preserve "Culture and Learning" when many use slang and butcher the English Language?
MAybe sometimes we find God in the Contemplative tradition. WE have ipods and computers and laptops we don't hear him because we don't contemplate.
Gregorian Chant and the Traditional Latin MAss will always have a place in the Catholic Faith because its BEAUTIFUL!
latinflava05 2 years ago
You can find many, many books, research, government papers, laws, information and disinformation on internet, but much more than you can find in school or in a public library.
Culture is not only a question of the conventions of a language, which BTW is not the same as even 300 years ago.
How do you translate
Pollution, computer, iPod into latin?
Yes, the latin sung mass is very beautiful. But not the only liturgy possible.
1401JSC 2 years ago
@1401JSC Sir I think the Only one who is bitter is you? People who speak against something have experience a negative experience.
I am a former Atheist who became a Catholic a few years back. As a Convert to Catholicism THE CATHOLIC CHURCH HAS ALOT TO SAY TO THE WORLD. I started reading the Writings of Edith Stein and Thomas Aquinas.
When I attend my first Tridentine Mass i Was amazed of the BEAUTY AND PASSION OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH.
latinflava05 2 years ago
Against what am I writing, if not narrow-mindedness?
Narrow-mindedness in others does not make me bitter, only sad.
JSC1401 2 years ago
@1401JSC Traditional Catholic Religous orders are attracting a lot of Vocations. look at your own backyard of France.
Religous Orders like Fraternity of St. Peter, Institute of Bon Pasteur and Institute Christ the King are attracting young men to the Priesthood and runnign out of room because of too many candidates.
SSPX also is attracting Young men. In the US Latin MAsses have increased from 200 to nearly 400 places also in France!
latinflava05 2 years ago
Sources?
Statistics?
JSC1401 2 years ago
1401JSC, you said Jesus never said of the Trinity "three in one & one in three". Let me ask you, did Jesus also told his Apostles to write everything all the account of his ministry? Did he told them to write the BIBLE and told them that all his follower will only need this book in order to be saved?
RANIPOE 2 years ago
What's your point?
1401JSC 2 years ago
What point are you trying to make?
1401JSC 2 years ago
@1401JSC When Rome fell by the Barbarians in 476 AD. The age referred to the Dark AGes. Dr. Thomas Woods a Harvard Professor said that it wasn't for the Monks Europe would be in the Dark Ages until the Renaissance period.
If the Catholic Church was dark and gloomy why did the Church started the University System?
University of OXford,Paris, University of Salamanca and dozens of other Universites of Europe.
latinflava05 2 years ago
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162ALAN162 2 years ago
"sic enim dilexit Deus mundum ut Filium suum unigenitum daret ut omnis qui credit in eum non pereat sed habeat vitam aeternam" (Joh.3,16)
WahreChristin 2 years ago
If they brought this mass back into the Church and all the parishes the world will be sanctifyed and there will be more vocations to the priesthood and the catholic church will triumpth!
twoholyheartsamdg 2 years ago 7
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its all just a bunch of fairy tales anyway
jeackpot 2 years ago
Your dad is a bunch of fairy tales bastard. Dont visit the site if you wanna insult the Christian religion. This is so beautiful, its worth is more than your life.
Grmario85 2 years ago
You can deny it, but it won't go away. Dominus tecum.
clarinet001 2 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
Ireland's Catholics finally informed of extent of sexual abuse of their children by the representatives of the "One True Church."
"Bishop Pat Buckley said an extremely conservative estimate was that one in 10 of the 5,000 Catholic priests in Ireland enjoyed regular sex with women and some even referred to their clerical collar as the "bird catcher" ...40 per cent of the Catholic clergy in Ireland were sexually active."
Google "Hundreds of Irish Catholic priests implicated in child abuse"
Rayosun 2 years ago
Is this SSPX or actually Catholic?
SanLewy 2 years ago
St Nicholas of Chardonnet is an SSPX church in Paris.
lorelei233 2 years ago
ooo...burn on SSPX...
Osteomorphis 2 years ago
What do you mean? The SSPX are Catholic.
baldwalrus7 2 years ago
Amen baldwalrus, but let me ask you, if you know my friend, didn't the pope lift the excommunications so that they are now in FULL communion with rome, meaning the sacraments they give are valid, and they are no longer illicit?
MrJohnnySharp 2 years ago
Well, Cardinal de Hoyos said they aren't in schism but they aren't in full communion with the Church yet. Their Sacraments have always been valid as far as I'm aware (Orthodox Sacraments are valid). They're kind of in a canonical grey area, so it's probably best if you go to a different traditionalist society (e.g. FSSP etc.).
baldwalrus7 2 years ago