The caller does make a good point but what he really points out is that people will always attribute god to things we don't know like the origin of the universe. Once we know it it is no longer classified god. Therefore theoretically god doesn't exist because we can keep going to infinity which is itself theoretical
Actually the caller makes a VERY good point and one that is actually quite deep on bothe the philosophical and psychological levels. Consider just for a moment that HOPE, produced psychologically through our perception that infinity exists, that HOPE itself must be explained. HOPE is not a concept hat ap
@DaAlphaOmega lol...ill add mentally ill to the multiple terms thrown at me. Now AGAIN...I'll ask..what bad is going to happen to me if I go though life being happy with my family, friends, and successful career all while being "mentally ill" by believing in God. What bad is going to happen to me?
@Jebro11 Being delusional affects your judgement and decision making,your belief influences what you do and what road you take.People who lie to themselves and others are doing damage,like i said and you chose to ignore is people who are delusional dont see the damage they are doing to themselves and others because they are delusional! lmao
@Jebro11 LMAO you dont need scientific proof of something that is observable,delusional is real and backed by science,GOD CANT BE OBSERVED! i dont need to pull up a bunch of vids or wiki or any other source to back up my claim that being delusional is unhealthy,and like i said PEOPLE THAT ARE DELUSIONAL DONT KNOW THE HARM THEY ARE DOING TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS BECAUSE THEY ARE DELUSIONAL! THEY HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY! THEY AN ALTERED STATE OF BEING,A FANTASY MIND SET! GET IT? GOT? GOOD!
as the hosters said... this sort of "god" this guy proposed is not "THE GOD" that ppl use to talk about.
No one shall try to refute the the theres a lot of things beyond that knowledge, but i dont see a point in calling it god. You know... ppl already invented a word for that --> Unknown.
@dallased25 so.. I believe I am thinking critically.But for the sake of argument-Lets say im not. So,I go about my life "not thinking critically" and live a successful, happy life believing in God/afterlife. You go about your life "thinking critically" and live a successful, happy life. We both die. Now,lets even say God doesnt exist.-We are dead. Neither of us can prove anything. We both were happy. Why should I sacrifice my happiness just to think like you? Pls answer
@Jebro11 being intellectually honest is not necesarilly going to make you happy, it will give you a more clear and consistent worldview. to find happiness in this life i do not need to create an imaginary friend who is unable to be known until the time of my death, i draw my happiness from my friends, family, the beauty of nature, and developing a deeper understanding of the world.
@scootsmonkey I also draw my happiness from my family friends etc. So we have something in common. Believing in God also adds to my happiness. Being intellectually honest, I reason that I should hope and believe there is an afterlife for me because intellectually, I reason that happiness is important and that one should try to maximize their happiness (that doesnt hurt others). I decide that intellectually with my brain. All this hinges on the fact that I cant observe after I die.
@Jebro11 being intellectually honest, one should not believe things without proof, even if it makes you happy. i would be happy if i could fly, that does not mean that i believe i can. god and the soul have all of the qualities of nonexistence,what reason or evidence do you have for claiming that either exists?
@scootsmonkey Whats the worst that can happen to me if I believe in God and afterlife....considering the fact that God along with family, friends, and success at work make me very happy. Its not like I can be dissapointed if I die and there is no afterlife - because I wouldnt be alive to know it. I know what the worst that can happen to you if you think you can fly - you may try to jump off a bridge and kill yourself. For this reason, I dont find your example analagous to belief in God
@Jebro11 believing things without evidence is damaging to your thought process. all that we are exists within our mortal coils, when that dies we are gone. there is no evidence of a soul or a god not because they are supernatural, but because they probably do not exist.
@scootsmonkey I believe there is a spiritual component to our consciousness that cannot be measured. I believe that upon our natural death, our spiritual component will survive and thus meet God. Now concerning how I live my life (in treating others) - I think the golden rule is a good framework to start with.
@Jebro11 Watch The atheist experience - God makes me happy,matt makes some great points as to why believing in something that isnt proven to be real can do damage
@DaAlphaOmega I watched it. I think I did a pretty good job on the call considering the fact I was battled my crying 6 month old...lol (it was me on that call). Im Jonathan :-)
@Jebro11 What would you say to someone with an imaginary friend? What a waste of time. Set yourself free of the crutch. And, how much money are you sacrificing to you God.
"Russell and I do not doubt that there are things beyond our knowledge." -Jeff
"We just don't call them God." - Russell
I'm glad the caller brought up this point, because I believe this is what truly has always been called God, Brahman, Allah, etc. These terms are the same for acknowledging "all possibilities" manifest in a higher dimension. String theorists call it "10 or 11 dimensional hyperspace," but whether 10 or 11, the point is the same, a hyperspace where all possibilities are contained.
You know? As an atheist I can actually agree with this. I've had the opinion before that religion is based at least in part on the hope that what it teaches is true. If this was true, one could argue what the problem is with that? It might be true. What's wrong with hoping it's true and believing it based on that hope? Faith basically. It made me think anyway.
Infinity is a concept that refers to a quantity without end. There's no need to say "God is infinity" because infinity is infinity! What justification does this caller have to say that God is a being that represents infinity? He even states that God is inconceivable, but then goes on to talk about its attributes. And hope being a valid reason to believe that God exists? The title of this video is very misleading.
@Ragnarockalypse How is accepting THAT WHICH CANNOT BE PROVEN to be True..how is that not thinking critically? I choose faith for that which CANT be proven. How is my making that choice not thinking critically?
@Jebro11 You have no proof and therefore no reason to believe in it. To believe in spite of this is called faith by some and folly by others. To be gullible and naive is not to think critically.
@Jebro11 Because by your admission there is no good reason to accept it to be true. Thinking critically means weighing the evidence, considering alternatives and not just accepting something with zero basis. Faith is exactly the opposite of thinking critically, faith is the suspension of thinking critically.
@dallased25 There can be no evidence of something that (by definition) cannot be measured. I believe there is a spirit component to us that lives on after this life. By definition, it cannot be observed and evidence cannot be gathered on the subject. I choose to believe it is true while going about my life. It makes me happy. Critically thinking, I state that I'd rather be happy in this life than to pander to atheist definition of what is or isnt critical thinking.
@Jebro11 Right. So we agree, with the exception on what the definition of critical thinking is (Which is btw is not my definition or any atheists, critical thinking dates to the socratic method of acient greece). I can't help if you want to redefine something that is a standard for about 2500 years now and again what you state as your reasoning is exactly the opposite of what critical thinking describes. What you describe is simply faith, without caring whether your beliefs are true.
@dallased25 Once again. I do care if my beliefs are true. I havent stopped searching for the truth of whether or not an afterlife/God exists. I will always search for this truth because this search brings joy to my life. WHILE I SEARCH, I choose to believe God/afterlife exist. THERE IS NO LAW STATING ONE CANNOT SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH OF A MATTER WHILE BELIEVING THAT THEY HAVE IT. Remember, I believe I have the truth, I DONT claim that I KNOW it.
@Jebro11 The argument wasn't what you believe, it was whether you are using critical thinking in your conclusion. You claimed you did, I disputed that. One of the key foundation points of critical thinking is weighing of evidence and using logic. "Faith" by definition is a suspension of logic. Just because you continue to look doesn't change anything, because you have already reached your conclusion through illogical means.
If I may jump in, although I believe it's possible to use critical thinking up to all kinds of degrees, including to accept a proposition on faith, I don't your description of faith (believing without proof) is altogether accurate. Faith might be more accurately described (with regards to many religions, anyway) as believing in something without demonstrable evidence, or despite evidence to the contrary. (continued)
@Jebro11 (continued) I suppose each person has a different set of experiences that can constitute evidence, or influence how we value and assess the evidence we are aware of, which we can then apply critical thinking to. But it's hard for me to understand what critical thinking would be without consideration given to demonstrable evidence and logic, both of which force any beliefs into the context of a universal (not just exclusively personal) process for knowing what is true and what is not.
@Jebro11 (continued 2) I realize that's sounds a little contradictory...that critical thinking might somehow be a role in a decision to use faith. But I should clarify I can't think of a way in which critical thinking would, without a logical error or disregard for the importance of demonstrable evidence, validate or directly support the use of faith to determine what is true. In other words, I can think of no way in which the application of faith to know what is true is anything but an error.
@Ragnarockalypse I believe it is thinking critically. But for the sake of argument - Lets say its not. So...I go about my life "not thinking critically" and live a successful, happy, joy-filled life believing in God/afterlife. You go about your life "thinking critically" and live a successful, happy, joy-filled life. We both die. Now, lets even say God doesnt exist. - We are dead. Neither of us can prove anything. We both were happy.
@Jebro11 As others have pointed out, your idea of critical thinking is off, as it does not match or even resemble the original meaning of the term.
Fear of death is a common reason to why people are religious.
You should base your perception of reality on what is the most plausible and closest to the truth. NOT what comforts you and makes you happy. The idea of permanent death does give life a lot more meaning, doesn't it?
@Ragnarockalypse Permanent life (ie..perpetual reincarnation) is more meaningful TO ME than permanent death. There seems to be a misunderstanding - I DO base my perception of reality on what is closest to the truth-FOR THINGS WHICH I CAN EXAMINE. However, for things which I can IMAGINE (spiritual component to myself which will be revealed AFTER physical death), I base my belief on that which I consider most positive-makes me happy. Because by definition, it CANT be examined now
@Jebro11 Aha! So you have no spirituality until after death. And you base your beliefs upon that which you can imagine. Hmm. Thinking happy thought about that which we cannot grasp will not bring us closer to grasping them. Carry on, theist. trololololo. Bye.
@Jebro11 yeah, I hope for positive things in the future, but that doesn't mean that positive things will come. I too have an almost urge to pray and hope that nothing bad comes to my children. but there is no one that can guarantee that nothing bad will happen. even faith in god can't DEFINATELY spare them or myself pain and suffering. Victims of Ted Bundy suffered horrible fates DESPITE their belief in Jesus and God. So what was the point?
@drumduder I never said that hope and belief about the future will make something come true. However, I think one should believe positively about that unknowable future if that belief and hope makes them happy. For many people, myself included, an afterlife and a God within the afterlife is a positive thing and makes them happy. Thats good reason for me to choose to believe (choose to have faith).
even if u disprove what I claim to be god or holy I'll just move the line and say "u cant know everything, so that which u dont understand is god. and if u come to understand that.. ill just move the line again."
@Jebro11 Then why don't you believe that you are going to win the lottery every day for the rest of your life? Or that all your friends and family will never die? Presumably these things would make you happy, why don't you believe them as well?
Your beliefs may make you ecstatic - good for you. We personally believe that it is more important that our beliefs are true than comforting.
Which is more important to you, believing things based on feeling good or on the truth? Genuine question.
@Jebro11 I read your comments and i get sick to my stomache,your way of thinking is so twisted and ignorant.your beleif in A God is wishful thinking.ignorance is bliss,the thought of eternal bliss in a heaven is your motive for believing,you believe in god cuz you believe you will be rewarded for doing so.A critical thinker wants and needs to know the truth,your belief in god makes you feel like you have the right answer therefore you can now relax and stop thinking and searching for the truth.
@DaAlphaOmega Critical thinkers do not base an absolute belief in something that is based on assumptions,there is no proof whatsoever that there is infact a god.your way of thinking is ridiculous,your making the choice to believe in a god was not a result of critical thinking,if you were a critical thinker you would have a lack of belief (atheism) because there is no evidence to support the claim that there is a god,the bible is not proof,existence is not proof,faith is not proof.theres no proof
@DaAlphaOmega I believe I am thinking critically.But for the sake of argument-Lets say im not. So,I go about my life "not thinking critically" and live a successful, happy life believing in God/afterlife. You go about your life "thinking critically" and live a successful, happy life. We both die. Now,lets even say God doesnt exist.-We are dead. Neither of us can prove anything. We both were happy. Why should I sacrifice my happiness just to think like you?Think about it? Critically
@Jebro11 I read your comment here and what came to mind was pascals wager,you seem to be playing it safe,you believe in god just incase there is a god because you fear death and possibly going to hell for not beleiving.Some people believe for the wrong reasons.
@DaAlphaOmega I'm fine with whatever term you want to name my way of thinking. I've heard it all...from Pascal's wager, God of the Gaps, non-critical thinking, unreasonable, silly..etc. I live a very happy life. I find joy in my family, friends, success at work, belief in God, etc. What bad thing is going to happen to me directly because of my way of thinking? (whatever you want to call it) Is there any proof that my life is negatively impacted by my way of thinking?
@Jebro11 lol i accidently massaged replied to my own comments,anyway what i was saying was you should want to know the truth,you should want to have a firm grasp on reality,its more beneficial to know whats real than to go through life believing something that isnt true.believing something that isnt true in my opinion is a negative impact in itself.You can go around thinking your superman if it makes you happy but the fact is your not superman,ignorance is bliss they say.
@DaAlphaOmega I yearn for the truth. There is no law that states one cannot believe they have the truth while still deparately seeking it. Even though I feel one can never find that truth of God's existence in this life, I still desparately seek it. I find an intrinsic value in the quest for the truth about God. While on that quest (that has value in and of itself), I CHOOSE to believe there is a God revealed after this life.
@Jebro11 why would somebody keep looking for an answer/truth if they feel they already have the answer/truth? You cant believe 100% in god if you are still looking for the truth,doesnt make sense.
@DaAlphaOmega well....I would reword it and say....I believe but I dont know. I will keep searching because I dont know. I also find value in the search itself.
@Jebro11 "i believe but i dont know" thats a contradiction,your confused.If your still looking its cuz your not satisfied with the explanation "god".Its an easy out,people that believe in god gave up searching for the truth,we may never know the answer in our life time,the fact that your still searching only indicates that you are still logical and rational.Instead of saying you believe ina god you should say "im undecided but open to the possibility of a god"
@DaAlphaOmega being delusional causes clouded judgement.it distorts your reality,i personally would not want to go through life believing something that isnt true,this should be a concern to you.
@DaAlphaOmega Go through life believing something that isnt true if you like,its up to you,i myself prefer to know the truth,i dont waste a second on anything that isnt true,its a waste of time.I want to move forward and evolve,i want to have a better grasp of reality as time goes on,its important to me that i seperate fact from fiction.nobody like lies,nobody likes a lier.im sure your no exception.telling white lies to spare a persons feelings can make a person happy but its still a lie.
@DaAlphaOmega I'm not lying to anyone.I believe there is a God.I may be mistaken. But im not lying, so lets get that thing clear.Also, I dont beleive I'm superman. The only subject I'm talking about is God/afterlife. Lets stay on topic. Again, I ask(when it comes to ONLY God/afterlife - Is there any proof that my life is negatively impacted by my way of thinking? Can believing (afterlife with God) which may not be true lead me to being dissapointed when I die and find out it isnt true? :-)
@DaAlphaOmega how is it a contradiction?...Its like me saying..I believe that I'm having this conversation with one person...but I dont know...There could be 2 or more people that I'm typing these messages to.
@Jebro11 lying to people or yourself doesnt help anything,living in denial is unhealthy,i personally like to know the truth,if theres something wrong i want to know so i can fix it,if people tell me theres nothing wrong then how does that solve the problem,its only going to get worse.
@DaAlphaOmega Like I said earlier...I'm not going to concern myself much with what you call my way of thinking. Ill just add "living in denial" to the extensive list that has been thrown at me. My question is: Can you prove that my way of thinking is unhealthy? I feel pretty healthy. My body feels great. My brain feels great. I function great at work. Im a systems engineer (not that you care). Can you prove that my way of thinking is unhealthy?
@Jebro11 i already proved it,living in denial can do great harm to your health whether you realize it or not,people keep telling themselves and eachother that is everything is fine when its really not,this means issues are not being addressed.fist step to resolving an issue is first acknowledging theres a problem,some people live in denial that they are getting too old and push themselves too hard and end up having a stroke.Crack feels good apparently but we all know thats not good for you.
@DaAlphaOmega I SPECIFICALLY asked: Is there any proof that my BELIEF IN GOD/AFTERLIFE negatively impacts my life. You're starting to sound like the proseletyzing theists who claim that the atheist "are missing out by not believing in God" They claim "atheist are going to be negatively impacted by the wrath of hell".
The atheist then says: "prove that Im going to pay harsh price for my Atheism"
No proof
Now Im asking you: Prove that Im going to pay harsh price for my Theism.
@DaAlphaOmega You say it effects my health? I asked for proof. Show me the data and statistics on how theists are more unhealthy, unhappy than atheists.
@Jebro11 research delusional,people who are delusional have a false sense of happiness,they dont realize the damage that is being caused,i dont need scientific proof or statistics,to be delusional is to live in ignorance and outside the realm of reality,If you have to believe in god to make you happy and keep you on the str8 and narrow road of morality that is sad to me but whatever works for you,the thought of living my life based on a lie is very depressing to me.
@Jebro11 Religion and the legal system go hand and hand,religion was invented to inslave the minds of the masses for control,every courtroom in north america has a bible you place your right hand on and swear to tell the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me god.Thou shall not kill yet there is a death penalty.thou shall not kill yet god flooded the entire earth killing everything living thing on the planet.
@Jebro11 and like i said i dont like that people brainwash their children to believe theres a god ,there is no proof that a god exists so why do people pass this down from generation to generation teaching their children from a young age that there is a god when it may very well not be true.they are lying to there children.and this lie lasts a life time,religion gives people a slave mentality,the thought of some being watching my every move drives me insane,that means i have no privacy ever.
@Jebro11 the bible teaches us that we are born sinners not worthy of gods love and forgiveness,and we all struggle with morality and are just aching to go back to being animals giving in to our every desire and temptation,its disgusting really,the bible makes us feel ashamed and guilty around the clock every day and night of our lives,im glad i wokeup and realized that its all bullshit,religion was invented by man to maintain control of the masses by threatening them with eternal torture.
@AchronTimeless we have no choice of being ignorant about knowing if God/afterlife exist in some supernatural realm. We just CANT know. You can choose to entertain hope and belief. I choose to do so. What makes my choice improper? Based on what? So having faith about unknowable is improper?
So he renamed the infinite god. Then he says because people want to live for ever it must be a being? That is a pretty big illogical leap with no evidence backing it that lacks anything of value. but I'm glad because the video was 129 likes and 128 dislikes when I got to it so I was able to even things out.
@CarletonSaw NO. because people want to live forever, they should believe they will (conceivable through God). This--all hinging on the fact that whether there is a God and whether there is a spiritual component to life that will live forever IS ALL UNFALSIFIABLE (UNPROVABLE)
@Jebro11 This is a believe that legitimizes peoples reason for countless wars and murders and stripping of rights. it is a believe that outright hurts us as a world. And you admit you will never find proof of a general god(i'd say the bible being unable to stay strait for 2 pages disproves itself but general idea of gods meh) Then you fall flat on your face by saying therefore I believe in it in other comments. Believe in what we have evidence for and stop letting nutsos call themselves popular
I had know idea where he was going with that, thought it was just a arbitrary point ,but damn that was a pretty solid argument. Kind of like what Joseph Campbell said the last step to comprehending God is stripping the very word and construct of God thereby making all arguments on either side arbitrary. In the end only leaving faith in the historical account of Jesus and what he said or in what Buddha said about the unknowable. Do you have faith in the idea that these men had some knowing?
For that matter, I have done well in life. I would say I was blessed by both giftings and adversity. IQ is not as important as attitude, and mine is high. EQ is more important. I believe in God, the God who is with me. Every sincere prayer I have offered has been answered and there have been miracles. I believe in Jesus. He is my most valued reality. Disprove him to me. Or if you prefer, use a big word like intellectual level to dismiss me. Have you prayed in the quiet? You are not alone.
Groan. So tired of reading people assessing IQ from a 2 minute observation. Groan. IQ is not worth that much. What a bizarr way to rank, and by whom? Who is declaring themselves to have that much superior knowledge ? The rank arogance of amatuer athiests strikes again.
*makes statement* Why do you say that? "I'm getting there" *repeats statement* Yeah, but why would you think that? "I haven't said I do, I'm getting there" *repeats statement* But why do you think that's true? "I'm just getting started, I haven't gotten there" *repeats statement* But why? "well, you'd like to live forever right? so god." - really? That's what qualifies for a "good argument" these days? Granted, it's above and beyond for most callers, but still crap. The bar is pretty low here.
@Jebro11 If mindlessly repeating myself and thinking that I'm actually proving anything is the result of believing in fairy tales then it merely allows me to deduce 2 things: Ignorance apparently IS bliss, and that I still want no part in it. The unfortunate fact is this does harm others, and certainly harms the believer. They're no longer able to reason properly, it's literally trained out of them and that impacts everyone around them. Heroine also makes people happy. Doesn't mean it's good.
Good argument = people hope they live forever so they believe in an inconceivable being that may or may not grant infinite life. Yeah, that's a good argument.
@fascism5 Ill pose the same question to you that I asked Achron. Why shouldnt one believe in God if it makes them happy, doesnt harm others, and is improvable (God)? It seems an atheist would understand this desire to be happy being that atheist believe this is the only life--so one should definately try to gain the most hppiness out of life as long as you dont negatively effect others
@Jebro11 If those 3 qualifications are met, I have no problem with anybody believing in God. I was simply saying the title is misleading, as I do not consider this a good argument for anything.
this whole argument is the Omega point or God as the Universe. postulated by jesuit priest Jean Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. interestingly, Rome regarded him as a heretic, until John Paul II. and now they do again.
Dude doesn't even sound like he believes in a god. He sounds like an atheist. He says that you don't even have to call it a god. If thats the case, then why are you calling? The show is about a belief or disbelief in gods. Not philosophy of the universe.
this guy seems like a smart guy but hes missing the point. the question is should we govern our lives on this idea of "god." his idea that god is infinity is all well and good but instead of calling it "god" there is another term for it.... infinity.
@elissbern So why should I not believe that this "infintiy" is a supernatural sentience? What negative consequence occurs from me believing that after our natural death, we will have a supernatural life where we meet this supernatural sentiece? Its unfalsifiable now, since I cant observe "after my natural death". Therfore I'm not waiting for evidence to determine my beliefs (Evidence should be used for all observable claims). My belief in this case is choice. Why should I not believe?
@Jebro11 well first of all look at the horrific things such as suicide bombings which result specifically from the belief in an after life, then watch this video...
That argument fell apart at the end there; I had high hopes for Jonathan. He wants to live forever and therefore believes that an infinite being exists who represents that concept and endows us with others? "Belief is just a function of that hope." That's a personal belief that doesn't seem to inform his actions. He seems to anthropomorphize eternity or the infinite source based on his desires, not logic.
Where is your evidence? And don't tell me to look at the bible because anyone can write anything. Its not evidence. Could there have been a man named Jesus? sure, could he have been able to walk on water and resurrect? surely you can't be serious.
@onehndrdprcntcreep Every video I go to I see your comments. You were the person who claimed to be open minded but looking on your channel now all you talk about is jesus and make claims that science proves the bible and not evolution. An outrageous claim that you have yet to back up. Your proof is the shroud of turin? Do you know that the shroud of turin is fake and was made by an Italian artist? Can you just stop commenting videos. I hate knowing people like you exist.
@onehndrdprcntcreep Show us the peer reviewed data that proves there was a global flood. Also show the peer reviewed data of how all the species on earth could be collected and taken care of and redistributed? And not from apologetic christian websites. I want to see peer reviewed PUBLISHED data!
If you are adressing the unknown as a being, ok for the sake f the argument at hand, then why in heck does it behave like humans, feeling, anger, spite, hatred, descrimination, favouritism, envy, jealousy, over reaction towards pussy and other sexual oegans, fixations and so forth and the list go on??????????????????? AND most importantly NOT like a GOD!!!???
@NeutralExistence And what's the use of naming energy god? There's no reason to change our name for energy to god. Besides, energy doesn't have anything supernatural in it, it's the most natural thing you could think of. It's an useless god in that sense.
I never said there was, but if we are to name anything "God", then that would be the most suiting of things. Since its the creator of all we know to exist. Some Native tribes had the right idea worshiping the land, corn, buffalo etc.. that gave them what they needed to live. So if we are to have religion, then lets at least do it in a way that benefits all of humanity, instead of dooming it with superstitions.
This guy made a better point than most of the points brought up by people calling into this show....but it still wasn't that great of a point. His idea was basically to call the unknown......GOD. Why even bother calling it GOD......why not just call them abstract thoughts and ideas? I think this guy just likes the word GOD and even though his logic tells him religion doesn't make sense......he wants to believe in it because it makes him feel comfortable.
@Flipper79able So why should I not believe that this "infintiy" is a supernatural sentience? What negative consequence occurs from me believing that after our natural death, we will have a supernatural life where we meet this supernatural sentiece? Its unfalsifiable now, since I cant observe "after my natural death". Therfore I'm not waiting for evidence to determine my beliefs (Evidence should be used for all observable claims). My belief in this case is choice.
@Jebro11 True but are you seem to be more of a Deist than anything. If their is no evidence and no possible way to prove or disprove of this God who is abstract and unfalsifiable, what basis of reasoning are you using to believe in this God. Still Nothing. Their is no REASONING behind this God. Personally I feel great empathy for this but you will have no proof or evidence. The only difference between your god and the Christian God is that yours can't be disproved. Why believe?
@scootsmonkey It's true. he starts off alright-ish, but then degrades to dancing in circles around loosely connected points that even he doesn't even really accept... I'm not really seeing anything i would call a good point here
@scootsmonkey So why should I not believe that this "infintiy" is a supernatural sentience? What negative consequence occurs from me believing that after our natural death, we will have a supernatural life where we meet this supernatural sentiece? Its unfalsifiable now, since I cant observe "after my natural death". Therfore I'm not waiting for evidence to determine my beliefs (Evidence should be used for all observable claims). My belief in this case is choice. Why not believe?
@Jebro11 believing things does not make them true. all that we know, our emotions, and our personalities exist within the brain, why must you claim that some supernatural force does the exact same thing, but is somehow separate from the body? it is not reasonable, and keeping a belief that is so ridiculous is actually detrimental to critical thought.
how can sound exist if we cant see it
legalis1 11 hours ago
@legalis1 Are you trolling?
crystalblackpino 8 hours ago
@crystalblackpino well i thought for something to exist has to be seen
legalis1 5 hours ago
way to muddle up semantics and terms thats all this really is
arcaniondeath666 14 hours ago
How is this a good argument?
lewisner 1 day ago
How is this a good argument?
lewisner 1 day ago
How is this a good argument?
lewisner 1 day ago
How is this a good argument?
lewisner 1 day ago
The caller does make a good point but what he really points out is that people will always attribute god to things we don't know like the origin of the universe. Once we know it it is no longer classified god. Therefore theoretically god doesn't exist because we can keep going to infinity which is itself theoretical
Ga1vados 1 day ago
Hope is not a concept or frequent occurrence, if you will, throughout nature. Why do WE hope?
basilbaker9 1 day ago
Actually the caller makes a VERY good point and one that is actually quite deep on bothe the philosophical and psychological levels. Consider just for a moment that HOPE, produced psychologically through our perception that infinity exists, that HOPE itself must be explained. HOPE is not a concept hat ap
basilbaker9 1 day ago
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TheCupcake609 2 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega lol...ill add mentally ill to the multiple terms thrown at me. Now AGAIN...I'll ask..what bad is going to happen to me if I go though life being happy with my family, friends, and successful career all while being "mentally ill" by believing in God. What bad is going to happen to me?
Jebro11 2 days ago
@Jebro11 Being delusional affects your judgement and decision making,your belief influences what you do and what road you take.People who lie to themselves and others are doing damage,like i said and you chose to ignore is people who are delusional dont see the damage they are doing to themselves and others because they are delusional! lmao
DaAlphaOmega 1 day ago
@Jebro11 LMAO you dont need scientific proof of something that is observable,delusional is real and backed by science,GOD CANT BE OBSERVED! i dont need to pull up a bunch of vids or wiki or any other source to back up my claim that being delusional is unhealthy,and like i said PEOPLE THAT ARE DELUSIONAL DONT KNOW THE HARM THEY ARE DOING TO THEMSELVES AND OTHERS BECAUSE THEY ARE DELUSIONAL! THEY HAVE LOST TOUCH WITH REALITY! THEY AN ALTERED STATE OF BEING,A FANTASY MIND SET! GET IT? GOT? GOOD!
DaAlphaOmega 2 days ago
Tbh...that was a cool argument. I liked it.
as the hosters said... this sort of "god" this guy proposed is not "THE GOD" that ppl use to talk about.
No one shall try to refute the the theres a lot of things beyond that knowledge, but i dont see a point in calling it god. You know... ppl already invented a word for that --> Unknown.
=D
TheBrunozxc 3 days ago
@dallased25 so.. I believe I am thinking critically.But for the sake of argument-Lets say im not. So,I go about my life "not thinking critically" and live a successful, happy life believing in God/afterlife. You go about your life "thinking critically" and live a successful, happy life. We both die. Now,lets even say God doesnt exist.-We are dead. Neither of us can prove anything. We both were happy. Why should I sacrifice my happiness just to think like you? Pls answer
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Jebro11 being intellectually honest is not necesarilly going to make you happy, it will give you a more clear and consistent worldview. to find happiness in this life i do not need to create an imaginary friend who is unable to be known until the time of my death, i draw my happiness from my friends, family, the beauty of nature, and developing a deeper understanding of the world.
scootsmonkey 4 days ago
@scootsmonkey I also draw my happiness from my family friends etc. So we have something in common. Believing in God also adds to my happiness. Being intellectually honest, I reason that I should hope and believe there is an afterlife for me because intellectually, I reason that happiness is important and that one should try to maximize their happiness (that doesnt hurt others). I decide that intellectually with my brain. All this hinges on the fact that I cant observe after I die.
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Jebro11 being intellectually honest, one should not believe things without proof, even if it makes you happy. i would be happy if i could fly, that does not mean that i believe i can. god and the soul have all of the qualities of nonexistence,what reason or evidence do you have for claiming that either exists?
scootsmonkey 2 days ago
@scootsmonkey Whats the worst that can happen to me if I believe in God and afterlife....considering the fact that God along with family, friends, and success at work make me very happy. Its not like I can be dissapointed if I die and there is no afterlife - because I wouldnt be alive to know it. I know what the worst that can happen to you if you think you can fly - you may try to jump off a bridge and kill yourself. For this reason, I dont find your example analagous to belief in God
Jebro11 2 days ago
@Jebro11 believing things without evidence is damaging to your thought process. all that we are exists within our mortal coils, when that dies we are gone. there is no evidence of a soul or a god not because they are supernatural, but because they probably do not exist.
scootsmonkey 2 days ago
@scootsmonkey PROVE that SPECIFICALLY believing in GOD/AFTERLIFE damages my thought process.
Jebro11 2 days ago
@scootsmonkey Prove that Im worse off for believing. Because my life is pretty good now. I need proof if I'm going to change my position.
Jebro11 2 days ago
@Jebro11 in order for me to do so i need you to state your beliefs.
scootsmonkey 1 day ago
@scootsmonkey I believe there is a spiritual component to our consciousness that cannot be measured. I believe that upon our natural death, our spiritual component will survive and thus meet God. Now concerning how I live my life (in treating others) - I think the golden rule is a good framework to start with.
Jebro11 1 day ago
@Jebro11 Watch The atheist experience - God makes me happy,matt makes some great points as to why believing in something that isnt proven to be real can do damage
DaAlphaOmega 1 day ago
@DaAlphaOmega I watched it. I think I did a pretty good job on the call considering the fact I was battled my crying 6 month old...lol (it was me on that call). Im Jonathan :-)
Jebro11 1 day ago
@Jebro11 Delusional.lol
DaAlphaOmega 1 day ago
@Jebro11 why do you believe in the spirit when there is not only a lack of evidence, but in fact evidence to the contrary?
scootsmonkey 17 hours ago
@Jebro11 What would you say to someone with an imaginary friend? What a waste of time. Set yourself free of the crutch. And, how much money are you sacrificing to you God.
mrannen1958 1 day ago
@scootsmonkey So I might as well be as positive as I can about my unknowable future.
Jebro11 4 days ago
@dallased25 i read the wikipedia page on critical thinking and read the whole thing. My method could be considered critical thinking.
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Ragnarockalypse neither does thinking nothing about that which we cannot grasp bring us any closer to grasping them. Later
Jebro11 4 days ago
"Russell and I do not doubt that there are things beyond our knowledge." -Jeff
"We just don't call them God." - Russell
I'm glad the caller brought up this point, because I believe this is what truly has always been called God, Brahman, Allah, etc. These terms are the same for acknowledging "all possibilities" manifest in a higher dimension. String theorists call it "10 or 11 dimensional hyperspace," but whether 10 or 11, the point is the same, a hyperspace where all possibilities are contained.
Hanahleia 5 days ago
His concept is respectable, but hes still wrong.
deathbyzza420 6 days ago
GUY. First go understand what infinity means.
Gunner3210 6 days ago
You know? As an atheist I can actually agree with this. I've had the opinion before that religion is based at least in part on the hope that what it teaches is true. If this was true, one could argue what the problem is with that? It might be true. What's wrong with hoping it's true and believing it based on that hope? Faith basically. It made me think anyway.
ilrichard 6 days ago
Infinity is a concept that refers to a quantity without end. There's no need to say "God is infinity" because infinity is infinity! What justification does this caller have to say that God is a being that represents infinity? He even states that God is inconceivable, but then goes on to talk about its attributes. And hope being a valid reason to believe that God exists? The title of this video is very misleading.
ronwisegamgee 1 week ago
@scootsmonkey I believe I think critically. I happened to have faith in God too. Sorry you think the 2 are incompatible.
Jebro11 1 week ago
@Jebro11 Faith is not thinking critically :) It is to accept something as true without demanding evidence, while calling it a virtue.
Ragnarockalypse 6 days ago 2
@Ragnarockalypse How is accepting THAT WHICH CANNOT BE PROVEN to be True..how is that not thinking critically? I choose faith for that which CANT be proven. How is my making that choice not thinking critically?
Jebro11 6 days ago
@Jebro11 You have answered your own question. Believing something which you know can't be proven is obviously not thinking critically.
MrPianoJames 6 days ago
@Jebro11 You have no proof and therefore no reason to believe in it. To believe in spite of this is called faith by some and folly by others. To be gullible and naive is not to think critically.
Ragnarockalypse 6 days ago
@Jebro11 Because by your admission there is no good reason to accept it to be true. Thinking critically means weighing the evidence, considering alternatives and not just accepting something with zero basis. Faith is exactly the opposite of thinking critically, faith is the suspension of thinking critically.
dallased25 5 days ago
@dallased25 There can be no evidence of something that (by definition) cannot be measured. I believe there is a spirit component to us that lives on after this life. By definition, it cannot be observed and evidence cannot be gathered on the subject. I choose to believe it is true while going about my life. It makes me happy. Critically thinking, I state that I'd rather be happy in this life than to pander to atheist definition of what is or isnt critical thinking.
Jebro11 5 days ago
@Jebro11 Right. So we agree, with the exception on what the definition of critical thinking is (Which is btw is not my definition or any atheists, critical thinking dates to the socratic method of acient greece). I can't help if you want to redefine something that is a standard for about 2500 years now and again what you state as your reasoning is exactly the opposite of what critical thinking describes. What you describe is simply faith, without caring whether your beliefs are true.
dallased25 4 days ago
@dallased25 Once again. I do care if my beliefs are true. I havent stopped searching for the truth of whether or not an afterlife/God exists. I will always search for this truth because this search brings joy to my life. WHILE I SEARCH, I choose to believe God/afterlife exist. THERE IS NO LAW STATING ONE CANNOT SEARCH FOR THE TRUTH OF A MATTER WHILE BELIEVING THAT THEY HAVE IT. Remember, I believe I have the truth, I DONT claim that I KNOW it.
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Jebro11 The argument wasn't what you believe, it was whether you are using critical thinking in your conclusion. You claimed you did, I disputed that. One of the key foundation points of critical thinking is weighing of evidence and using logic. "Faith" by definition is a suspension of logic. Just because you continue to look doesn't change anything, because you have already reached your conclusion through illogical means.
dallased25 4 days ago
@Jebro11 "THAT WHICH CANNOT BE PROVEN "
If I may jump in, although I believe it's possible to use critical thinking up to all kinds of degrees, including to accept a proposition on faith, I don't your description of faith (believing without proof) is altogether accurate. Faith might be more accurately described (with regards to many religions, anyway) as believing in something without demonstrable evidence, or despite evidence to the contrary. (continued)
iridescentsquids 5 days ago
@Jebro11 (continued) I suppose each person has a different set of experiences that can constitute evidence, or influence how we value and assess the evidence we are aware of, which we can then apply critical thinking to. But it's hard for me to understand what critical thinking would be without consideration given to demonstrable evidence and logic, both of which force any beliefs into the context of a universal (not just exclusively personal) process for knowing what is true and what is not.
iridescentsquids 5 days ago
@Jebro11 (continued 2) I realize that's sounds a little contradictory...that critical thinking might somehow be a role in a decision to use faith. But I should clarify I can't think of a way in which critical thinking would, without a logical error or disregard for the importance of demonstrable evidence, validate or directly support the use of faith to determine what is true. In other words, I can think of no way in which the application of faith to know what is true is anything but an error.
iridescentsquids 5 days ago
@Jebro11 It also lacks evidence to support it, and faith in something for which there is no evidence is irrational.
RhiehnD 5 days ago
@Ragnarockalypse I don't think you are thinking critically in thinking that everything magically got here with no creator. I'm a critical thinker.
MaaNonu123 5 days ago
@Ragnarockalypse I believe it is thinking critically. But for the sake of argument - Lets say its not. So...I go about my life "not thinking critically" and live a successful, happy, joy-filled life believing in God/afterlife. You go about your life "thinking critically" and live a successful, happy, joy-filled life. We both die. Now, lets even say God doesnt exist. - We are dead. Neither of us can prove anything. We both were happy.
Jebro11 5 days ago
@Ragnarockalypse Why should I think like you and sacrifice my happiness for the same "worst-case scenario" result - Pernanent death?
Jebro11 5 days ago
@Jebro11 As others have pointed out, your idea of critical thinking is off, as it does not match or even resemble the original meaning of the term.
Fear of death is a common reason to why people are religious.
You should base your perception of reality on what is the most plausible and closest to the truth. NOT what comforts you and makes you happy. The idea of permanent death does give life a lot more meaning, doesn't it?
Ragnarockalypse 4 days ago
@Ragnarockalypse Permanent life (ie..perpetual reincarnation) is more meaningful TO ME than permanent death. There seems to be a misunderstanding - I DO base my perception of reality on what is closest to the truth-FOR THINGS WHICH I CAN EXAMINE. However, for things which I can IMAGINE (spiritual component to myself which will be revealed AFTER physical death), I base my belief on that which I consider most positive-makes me happy. Because by definition, it CANT be examined now
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Jebro11 Aha! So you have no spirituality until after death. And you base your beliefs upon that which you can imagine. Hmm. Thinking happy thought about that which we cannot grasp will not bring us closer to grasping them. Carry on, theist. trololololo. Bye.
Ragnarockalypse 4 days ago
@Jebro11 if you were consistent with your critical thought, then you would not believe things without evidence.
scootsmonkey 6 days ago
@Jebro11 where do you get your faith in God from?
drumduder 5 days ago
@drumduder I dont know...I guess the same place I get my desire to live to see my kids grow up. From an internal positive outlook on the future.
Jebro11 5 days ago
@Jebro11 yeah, I hope for positive things in the future, but that doesn't mean that positive things will come. I too have an almost urge to pray and hope that nothing bad comes to my children. but there is no one that can guarantee that nothing bad will happen. even faith in god can't DEFINATELY spare them or myself pain and suffering. Victims of Ted Bundy suffered horrible fates DESPITE their belief in Jesus and God. So what was the point?
drumduder 4 days ago
@drumduder I never said that hope and belief about the future will make something come true. However, I think one should believe positively about that unknowable future if that belief and hope makes them happy. For many people, myself included, an afterlife and a God within the afterlife is a positive thing and makes them happy. Thats good reason for me to choose to believe (choose to have faith).
Jebro11 4 days ago
@elissbern result of believing God would reward such behavior. Not a result in belief in God's existence. Lets not invoke slippery slope fallacies.
Jebro11 1 week ago
@jamnin94 well once I know everything. I will be God. No where else to move the line.
Jebro11 1 week ago
so in a nutshell his argument is
even if u disprove what I claim to be god or holy I'll just move the line and say "u cant know everything, so that which u dont understand is god. and if u come to understand that.. ill just move the line again."
jamnin94 1 week ago
@ZenPhilosopher123 because it make me happier than not believing in my deistic God. Why would I choose to be less happy?
Jebro11 1 week ago
@Jebro11 Then why don't you believe that you are going to win the lottery every day for the rest of your life? Or that all your friends and family will never die? Presumably these things would make you happy, why don't you believe them as well?
Your beliefs may make you ecstatic - good for you. We personally believe that it is more important that our beliefs are true than comforting.
Which is more important to you, believing things based on feeling good or on the truth? Genuine question.
MrPianoJames 6 days ago
@Jebro11 I read your comments and i get sick to my stomache,your way of thinking is so twisted and ignorant.your beleif in A God is wishful thinking.ignorance is bliss,the thought of eternal bliss in a heaven is your motive for believing,you believe in god cuz you believe you will be rewarded for doing so.A critical thinker wants and needs to know the truth,your belief in god makes you feel like you have the right answer therefore you can now relax and stop thinking and searching for the truth.
DaAlphaOmega 5 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega Critical thinkers do not base an absolute belief in something that is based on assumptions,there is no proof whatsoever that there is infact a god.your way of thinking is ridiculous,your making the choice to believe in a god was not a result of critical thinking,if you were a critical thinker you would have a lack of belief (atheism) because there is no evidence to support the claim that there is a god,the bible is not proof,existence is not proof,faith is not proof.theres no proof
DaAlphaOmega 5 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega I believe I am thinking critically.But for the sake of argument-Lets say im not. So,I go about my life "not thinking critically" and live a successful, happy life believing in God/afterlife. You go about your life "thinking critically" and live a successful, happy life. We both die. Now,lets even say God doesnt exist.-We are dead. Neither of us can prove anything. We both were happy. Why should I sacrifice my happiness just to think like you?Think about it? Critically
Jebro11 5 days ago
@Jebro11 I read your comment here and what came to mind was pascals wager,you seem to be playing it safe,you believe in god just incase there is a god because you fear death and possibly going to hell for not beleiving.Some people believe for the wrong reasons.
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega I'm fine with whatever term you want to name my way of thinking. I've heard it all...from Pascal's wager, God of the Gaps, non-critical thinking, unreasonable, silly..etc. I live a very happy life. I find joy in my family, friends, success at work, belief in God, etc. What bad thing is going to happen to me directly because of my way of thinking? (whatever you want to call it) Is there any proof that my life is negatively impacted by my way of thinking?
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Jebro11 lol i accidently massaged replied to my own comments,anyway what i was saying was you should want to know the truth,you should want to have a firm grasp on reality,its more beneficial to know whats real than to go through life believing something that isnt true.believing something that isnt true in my opinion is a negative impact in itself.You can go around thinking your superman if it makes you happy but the fact is your not superman,ignorance is bliss they say.
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega I yearn for the truth. There is no law that states one cannot believe they have the truth while still deparately seeking it. Even though I feel one can never find that truth of God's existence in this life, I still desparately seek it. I find an intrinsic value in the quest for the truth about God. While on that quest (that has value in and of itself), I CHOOSE to believe there is a God revealed after this life.
Jebro11 5 days ago
@Jebro11 why would somebody keep looking for an answer/truth if they feel they already have the answer/truth? You cant believe 100% in god if you are still looking for the truth,doesnt make sense.
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega well....I would reword it and say....I believe but I dont know. I will keep searching because I dont know. I also find value in the search itself.
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Jebro11 "i believe but i dont know" thats a contradiction,your confused.If your still looking its cuz your not satisfied with the explanation "god".Its an easy out,people that believe in god gave up searching for the truth,we may never know the answer in our life time,the fact that your still searching only indicates that you are still logical and rational.Instead of saying you believe ina god you should say "im undecided but open to the possibility of a god"
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega being delusional causes clouded judgement.it distorts your reality,i personally would not want to go through life believing something that isnt true,this should be a concern to you.
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega Go through life believing something that isnt true if you like,its up to you,i myself prefer to know the truth,i dont waste a second on anything that isnt true,its a waste of time.I want to move forward and evolve,i want to have a better grasp of reality as time goes on,its important to me that i seperate fact from fiction.nobody like lies,nobody likes a lier.im sure your no exception.telling white lies to spare a persons feelings can make a person happy but its still a lie.
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega I'm not lying to anyone.I believe there is a God.I may be mistaken. But im not lying, so lets get that thing clear.Also, I dont beleive I'm superman. The only subject I'm talking about is God/afterlife. Lets stay on topic. Again, I ask(when it comes to ONLY God/afterlife - Is there any proof that my life is negatively impacted by my way of thinking? Can believing (afterlife with God) which may not be true lead me to being dissapointed when I die and find out it isnt true? :-)
Jebro11 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega how is it a contradiction?...Its like me saying..I believe that I'm having this conversation with one person...but I dont know...There could be 2 or more people that I'm typing these messages to.
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Jebro11 lying to people or yourself doesnt help anything,living in denial is unhealthy,i personally like to know the truth,if theres something wrong i want to know so i can fix it,if people tell me theres nothing wrong then how does that solve the problem,its only going to get worse.
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega Like I said earlier...I'm not going to concern myself much with what you call my way of thinking. Ill just add "living in denial" to the extensive list that has been thrown at me. My question is: Can you prove that my way of thinking is unhealthy? I feel pretty healthy. My body feels great. My brain feels great. I function great at work. Im a systems engineer (not that you care). Can you prove that my way of thinking is unhealthy?
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Jebro11 i already proved it,living in denial can do great harm to your health whether you realize it or not,people keep telling themselves and eachother that is everything is fine when its really not,this means issues are not being addressed.fist step to resolving an issue is first acknowledging theres a problem,some people live in denial that they are getting too old and push themselves too hard and end up having a stroke.Crack feels good apparently but we all know thats not good for you.
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega I SPECIFICALLY asked: Is there any proof that my BELIEF IN GOD/AFTERLIFE negatively impacts my life. You're starting to sound like the proseletyzing theists who claim that the atheist "are missing out by not believing in God" They claim "atheist are going to be negatively impacted by the wrath of hell".
The atheist then says: "prove that Im going to pay harsh price for my Atheism"
No proof
Now Im asking you: Prove that Im going to pay harsh price for my Theism.
No proof
Jebro11 4 days ago
@DaAlphaOmega You say it effects my health? I asked for proof. Show me the data and statistics on how theists are more unhealthy, unhappy than atheists.
Jebro11 4 days ago
@Jebro11 research delusional,people who are delusional have a false sense of happiness,they dont realize the damage that is being caused,i dont need scientific proof or statistics,to be delusional is to live in ignorance and outside the realm of reality,If you have to believe in god to make you happy and keep you on the str8 and narrow road of morality that is sad to me but whatever works for you,the thought of living my life based on a lie is very depressing to me.
DaAlphaOmega 3 days ago
@Jebro11 Religion and the legal system go hand and hand,religion was invented to inslave the minds of the masses for control,every courtroom in north america has a bible you place your right hand on and swear to tell the truth,the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me god.Thou shall not kill yet there is a death penalty.thou shall not kill yet god flooded the entire earth killing everything living thing on the planet.
DaAlphaOmega 3 days ago
@Jebro11 and like i said i dont like that people brainwash their children to believe theres a god ,there is no proof that a god exists so why do people pass this down from generation to generation teaching their children from a young age that there is a god when it may very well not be true.they are lying to there children.and this lie lasts a life time,religion gives people a slave mentality,the thought of some being watching my every move drives me insane,that means i have no privacy ever.
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@Jebro11 the bible teaches us that we are born sinners not worthy of gods love and forgiveness,and we all struggle with morality and are just aching to go back to being animals giving in to our every desire and temptation,its disgusting really,the bible makes us feel ashamed and guilty around the clock every day and night of our lives,im glad i wokeup and realized that its all bullshit,religion was invented by man to maintain control of the masses by threatening them with eternal torture.
DaAlphaOmega 4 days ago
@AchronTimeless we have no choice of being ignorant about knowing if God/afterlife exist in some supernatural realm. We just CANT know. You can choose to entertain hope and belief. I choose to do so. What makes my choice improper? Based on what? So having faith about unknowable is improper?
Jebro11 1 week ago
So he renamed the infinite god. Then he says because people want to live for ever it must be a being? That is a pretty big illogical leap with no evidence backing it that lacks anything of value. but I'm glad because the video was 129 likes and 128 dislikes when I got to it so I was able to even things out.
CarletonSaw 1 week ago
@CarletonSaw NO. because people want to live forever, they should believe they will (conceivable through God). This--all hinging on the fact that whether there is a God and whether there is a spiritual component to life that will live forever IS ALL UNFALSIFIABLE (UNPROVABLE)
Jebro11 1 week ago
@Jebro11 This is a believe that legitimizes peoples reason for countless wars and murders and stripping of rights. it is a believe that outright hurts us as a world. And you admit you will never find proof of a general god(i'd say the bible being unable to stay strait for 2 pages disproves itself but general idea of gods meh) Then you fall flat on your face by saying therefore I believe in it in other comments. Believe in what we have evidence for and stop letting nutsos call themselves popular
CarletonSaw 6 days ago
This has been flagged as spam show
I had know idea where he was going with that, thought it was just a arbitrary point ,but damn that was a pretty solid argument. Kind of like what Joseph Campbell said the last step to comprehending God is stripping the very word and construct of God thereby making all arguments on either side arbitrary. In the end only leaving faith in the historical account of Jesus and what he said or in what Buddha said about the unknowable. Do you have faith in the idea that these men had some knowing?
jwbwho 1 week ago
For that matter, I have done well in life. I would say I was blessed by both giftings and adversity. IQ is not as important as attitude, and mine is high. EQ is more important. I believe in God, the God who is with me. Every sincere prayer I have offered has been answered and there have been miracles. I believe in Jesus. He is my most valued reality. Disprove him to me. Or if you prefer, use a big word like intellectual level to dismiss me. Have you prayed in the quiet? You are not alone.
Cariard73 1 week ago
Groan. So tired of reading people assessing IQ from a 2 minute observation. Groan. IQ is not worth that much. What a bizarr way to rank, and by whom? Who is declaring themselves to have that much superior knowledge ? The rank arogance of amatuer athiests strikes again.
Cariard73 1 week ago
The number of likes is almost equal to the number of dislikes.
Ripley747 1 week ago
*makes statement* Why do you say that? "I'm getting there" *repeats statement* Yeah, but why would you think that? "I haven't said I do, I'm getting there" *repeats statement* But why do you think that's true? "I'm just getting started, I haven't gotten there" *repeats statement* But why? "well, you'd like to live forever right? so god." - really? That's what qualifies for a "good argument" these days? Granted, it's above and beyond for most callers, but still crap. The bar is pretty low here.
AchronTimeless 1 week ago
@AchronTimeless Why shouldnt one believe in God if it makes them happy, doesnt harm others, and is improvable (God)?
Jebro11 1 week ago
@Jebro11 If mindlessly repeating myself and thinking that I'm actually proving anything is the result of believing in fairy tales then it merely allows me to deduce 2 things: Ignorance apparently IS bliss, and that I still want no part in it. The unfortunate fact is this does harm others, and certainly harms the believer. They're no longer able to reason properly, it's literally trained out of them and that impacts everyone around them. Heroine also makes people happy. Doesn't mean it's good.
AchronTimeless 1 week ago
@GongFuWushu higher or lower intellectual level?
Jebro11 1 week ago
Good argument = people hope they live forever so they believe in an inconceivable being that may or may not grant infinite life. Yeah, that's a good argument.
fascism5 1 week ago
@fascism5 Ill pose the same question to you that I asked Achron. Why shouldnt one believe in God if it makes them happy, doesnt harm others, and is improvable (God)? It seems an atheist would understand this desire to be happy being that atheist believe this is the only life--so one should definately try to gain the most hppiness out of life as long as you dont negatively effect others
Jebro11 1 week ago
@Jebro11 If those 3 qualifications are met, I have no problem with anybody believing in God. I was simply saying the title is misleading, as I do not consider this a good argument for anything.
fascism5 1 day ago
I destroyed the balance....
Pontus900 1 week ago
I was gonna like but the 123 likes an 123 dislikes are so rare that im gonna let it be..
yaboykidkush 1 week ago
123 likes, 123 dislikes. Why?
PACKyourSHITfolks420 1 week ago
This has been flagged as spam show
that guy calling is on an entirely different intellectual level than those two
GongFuWushu 1 week ago
There was a point in my life when I liked the Noahs Ark story...I was five.
bwcomment777 1 week ago
this whole argument is the Omega point or God as the Universe. postulated by jesuit priest Jean Pierre Teilhard de Chardin. interestingly, Rome regarded him as a heretic, until John Paul II. and now they do again.
raverdeath100 1 week ago
@raverdeath100 doing what again?
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
So dude actually believes in pantheism?
Dude doesn't even sound like he believes in a god. He sounds like an atheist. He says that you don't even have to call it a god. If thats the case, then why are you calling? The show is about a belief or disbelief in gods. Not philosophy of the universe.
AK33M 1 week ago
this guy seems like a smart guy but hes missing the point. the question is should we govern our lives on this idea of "god." his idea that god is infinity is all well and good but instead of calling it "god" there is another term for it.... infinity.
elissbern 1 week ago
@elissbern So why should I not believe that this "infintiy" is a supernatural sentience? What negative consequence occurs from me believing that after our natural death, we will have a supernatural life where we meet this supernatural sentiece? Its unfalsifiable now, since I cant observe "after my natural death". Therfore I'm not waiting for evidence to determine my beliefs (Evidence should be used for all observable claims). My belief in this case is choice. Why should I not believe?
Jebro11 1 week ago
@Jebro11 well first of all look at the horrific things such as suicide bombings which result specifically from the belief in an after life, then watch this video...
elissbern 1 week ago
IN EVERY MAN,WOMAN,AND CHILD,IS THEIR OWN CONCEPTION OF GOD...
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
I'm atheist and Ceaser wasn't a "god" just a rich manipulator
eagleflyer775 1 week ago
Major misuse of the word "baseline."
vinegarthomas 2 weeks ago
That argument fell apart at the end there; I had high hopes for Jonathan. He wants to live forever and therefore believes that an infinite being exists who represents that concept and endows us with others? "Belief is just a function of that hope." That's a personal belief that doesn't seem to inform his actions. He seems to anthropomorphize eternity or the infinite source based on his desires, not logic.
chinngis83 2 weeks ago
JESUS
onehndrdprcntcreep 2 weeks ago
@onehndrdprcntcreep
...was not a magical being.
HDaviator 2 weeks ago
@HDaviator no he was very real.
onehndrdprcntcreep 2 weeks ago
@onehndrdprcntcreep A real person, not God or magic or anything.
MajickDemoniack 2 weeks ago
@MajickDemoniack it depends on how you look at it.
onehndrdprcntcreep 2 weeks ago
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@MajickDemoniack it depends on how you look at it.
onehndrdprcntcreep 2 weeks ago
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@MajickDemoniack it depends on how you look at it.
onehndrdprcntcreep 2 weeks ago
@onehndrdprcntcreep
Where is your evidence? And don't tell me to look at the bible because anyone can write anything. Its not evidence. Could there have been a man named Jesus? sure, could he have been able to walk on water and resurrect? surely you can't be serious.
HDaviator 1 week ago
@HDaviator IM NOT MY FRIRND. LOOK AT THE SHROUD OR TURIN.
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
@onehndrdprcntcreep Every video I go to I see your comments. You were the person who claimed to be open minded but looking on your channel now all you talk about is jesus and make claims that science proves the bible and not evolution. An outrageous claim that you have yet to back up. Your proof is the shroud of turin? Do you know that the shroud of turin is fake and was made by an Italian artist? Can you just stop commenting videos. I hate knowing people like you exist.
AyyBaxter 1 week ago
@AyyBaxter no my friend. i said stories in the bible have been proven by science. as for the shroud being painted is and acusation.
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
@onehndrdprcntcreep Name one.
AyyBaxter 1 week ago
@AyyBaxter sodom and gamora,nowas ark,.you know they took the shroud back out in 09 and did a real scientific analysis on it.
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
@onehndrdprcntcreep NOAHS ARK HAHAHAHA
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
@onehndrdprcntcreep SCIENCE CAN PROVE THAT THIS WHOLE WORLD WAS UNDER WATER AT ONE TIME,THUS PROVING THE NOAHS ARK STORY.
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
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@onehndrdprcntcreep Show us the peer reviewed data that proves there was a global flood. Also show the peer reviewed data of how all the species on earth could be collected and taken care of and redistributed? And not from apologetic christian websites. I want to see peer reviewed PUBLISHED data!
nhbiker1961 1 week ago
@AyyBaxter and i am.
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
@AyyBaxter why you so upset?
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
@onehndrdprcntcreep did you know that the turin shroud shows a figure with either an elongated neck or that the head is detached?
raverdeath100 1 week ago
@raverdeath100 NO
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
@onehndrdprcntcreep NO what?
raverdeath100 1 week ago
@raverdeath100 the shroud of turin.
onehndrdprcntcreep 1 week ago
If you are adressing the unknown as a being, ok for the sake f the argument at hand, then why in heck does it behave like humans, feeling, anger, spite, hatred, descrimination, favouritism, envy, jealousy, over reaction towards pussy and other sexual oegans, fixations and so forth and the list go on??????????????????? AND most importantly NOT like a GOD!!!???
exa0 2 weeks ago
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@exa0 WELL lol were the fuck did all thise examples come from?? God would be the answer, how is a God supposed to be?
pinball281 2 weeks ago
I missed the part where the caller made a good point...
keld0n84 2 weeks ago
The dude keeps saying he can't conceive it, then sits on the phone and conceives it for 10 minutes.
Bebopopotamus 2 weeks ago
Join in on Debates at:
religiousdebates.co.uk
fletchernibiru 2 weeks ago
"God"
Is simply energy, it has created everything we know to exist.
What else fits the description of a God better?
NeutralExistence 2 weeks ago
@NeutralExistence And what's the use of naming energy god? There's no reason to change our name for energy to god. Besides, energy doesn't have anything supernatural in it, it's the most natural thing you could think of. It's an useless god in that sense.
TheWind0ws 2 weeks ago
@TheWind0ws
I never said there was, but if we are to name anything "God", then that would be the most suiting of things. Since its the creator of all we know to exist. Some Native tribes had the right idea worshiping the land, corn, buffalo etc.. that gave them what they needed to live. So if we are to have religion, then lets at least do it in a way that benefits all of humanity, instead of dooming it with superstitions.
NeutralExistence 2 weeks ago
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Hum--makes good point he does....still agnostic atheist though--lol
sepiasiren 2 weeks ago
Hum--makes good point he does....still agnostic atheist though--lol
sepiasiren 2 weeks ago
@sepiasiren NO..Agnostic Theist. :-)
Jebro11 1 week ago
@Jebro11 lol.... I meant me....:-)
sepiasiren 1 week ago
This guy made a better point than most of the points brought up by people calling into this show....but it still wasn't that great of a point. His idea was basically to call the unknown......GOD. Why even bother calling it GOD......why not just call them abstract thoughts and ideas? I think this guy just likes the word GOD and even though his logic tells him religion doesn't make sense......he wants to believe in it because it makes him feel comfortable.
Flipper79able 2 weeks ago
@Flipper79able So why should I not believe that this "infintiy" is a supernatural sentience? What negative consequence occurs from me believing that after our natural death, we will have a supernatural life where we meet this supernatural sentiece? Its unfalsifiable now, since I cant observe "after my natural death". Therfore I'm not waiting for evidence to determine my beliefs (Evidence should be used for all observable claims). My belief in this case is choice.
Jebro11 1 week ago
@Jebro11 True but are you seem to be more of a Deist than anything. If their is no evidence and no possible way to prove or disprove of this God who is abstract and unfalsifiable, what basis of reasoning are you using to believe in this God. Still Nothing. Their is no REASONING behind this God. Personally I feel great empathy for this but you will have no proof or evidence. The only difference between your god and the Christian God is that yours can't be disproved. Why believe?
ZenPhilosopher123 1 week ago
IT'S CALLED LIFE.....lol
1deanwdaniel 2 weeks ago
where is the good point? he uses the god of the gaps argument, then he says that hope is proof of god. these claims are annoying and ridiculous.
scootsmonkey 2 weeks ago
@scootsmonkey It's true. he starts off alright-ish, but then degrades to dancing in circles around loosely connected points that even he doesn't even really accept... I'm not really seeing anything i would call a good point here
cameron1737 2 weeks ago
@scootsmonkey So why should I not believe that this "infintiy" is a supernatural sentience? What negative consequence occurs from me believing that after our natural death, we will have a supernatural life where we meet this supernatural sentiece? Its unfalsifiable now, since I cant observe "after my natural death". Therfore I'm not waiting for evidence to determine my beliefs (Evidence should be used for all observable claims). My belief in this case is choice. Why not believe?
Jebro11 1 week ago
@Jebro11 believing things does not make them true. all that we know, our emotions, and our personalities exist within the brain, why must you claim that some supernatural force does the exact same thing, but is somehow separate from the body? it is not reasonable, and keeping a belief that is so ridiculous is actually detrimental to critical thought.
scootsmonkey 1 week ago
Hey
Jebro11 2 weeks ago