kandhamal persecution 2008(Newly Discovered Video) _1

[simonshanoo]

We can see how much God's words are true by this video as JOHN 16:13

[thinkcat01]

Why can't people leave them alone? Why beat people because of different beliefs.

[djquiz6425]

Christians! we are called to love! please do not disrespect the memory of our martyrs by hating the ones that they loved enough to die for! Please pray for them! You can not hate people into Heaven, but you CAN love people into Heaven. How can you witness to people that you hate? We do not need to condemn them, they are already condemned. We are sent to save them from that condemnation. Check the Lord's Prayer, how you forgive is how you will be forgiven.

[TheJmpeters]

We will continue to see the persecution of Christians until Jesus comes back to take His church home to be with Him. We are told to persevere and use persecution to grow our faith and increase our hope of His soon return. We are also told to keep the teachings of Jesus and His apostles which were given to us to follow on a daily basis. Don't stray or stumble, get back to the original faith and word we were taught to keep. Be humble and love one another and bless our enemies. Jesus is coming soon

[glijo41]

1 thing i wanna tel to all Christians who r facing this persecution is that Jesus has said in his holy bible that "These things I have spoken to you, so that in Me you may have peace. In the world you have tribulation, but take courage; I have overcome the world."John 16:33.

[zugzwangist]

@glijo41 ,what message do you have for the christian who the persecutors ??In this kandamal case the christians are clearly the persecutors of the Hindus who are the religious minority on a global scale!!

[TheBicusnicus1]

@zugzwangist I understand you. You are like the fearful bigots in my country. You believe there is a conspiracy to tear down your civilisation, when it is in fact your words and actions that will do it. There may have been some element within this community that did a dastardly thing. They may have believed they were justified in response to their treatment, and so an unenlightened debate about who did what transpires while more Christians die. Same thing in Israel, Sri Lanka, etc. You are ...

[zugzwangist]

@TheBicusnicus1 ,What you really understand is to stand on a high moral ground and accuse others of bigotry!!!Believing a conspiracy and trying to prove it is beyond the scope of this forum,if i were one among those who blindly believed in whatever is dished out,i would had been among the millions who actually believe that 9/11 was an american effort to find an excuse to wage war !!

[zugzwangist]

As far as the civilization is concerned it has stood strongly for thousands of years in spite of numerous attacks ,the key to this is the tolerance and the ability to withstand and absorb the marauding cultures!! I assure you that Neither my alleged"words and actions" nor the so called "conspiracy " OR "need for proselytism" will be able to damage it!! 

[TheBicusnicus1]

@zugzwangist I know that people like you feel strong in your beliefs that whatever you do is justified, similar to those on the beaches of Cronulla and Marroubra in Australia, who didn't kill anybody one might add but were as equally abhorrent. I myself haven't contributed to any proselytizing, nor do I practice yoga. I am simply a fellow human being that can see plainly that those actions were overkill. Like an Israeli gunship or a suicide bomber on a Jewish bus or Oliver Cromwell's actions.

[zugzwangist]

Tolerance towards another faiths can only ensure peace in the world and regretfully both islam and christianity are intolerant in principle!! India has got true religious freedom ,the laws allow one to follow any faith but does not allow anybody to hurt another faiths religious sentiments.Think of the analogical situation in which Everybody has freedom to move his hands in any direction but the freedom automatically ceases when the hands reach another guys cheek !

[TheBicusnicus1]

@zugzwangist Part 1-If we all defended each other against violence from wherever it came it would be easier, It's when we form into separate groups that oppose one another we allow the best of us to perish. I know Gandhi opposed conversions, and to an extent I think it is intrusive, but we've had gurus try and spread their path amongst us and equally there are Christians that do the same both here and abroad.I will say that generally missionaries target areas where they see suffering and...

[TheBicusnicus1]

Respond to this video...Part 2- injustice as they believe, due to their faith, they have the answer to bringing wholeness and everlasting life to those they meet. I know how rude it seems, and believe me when Jehovah's Witness's or Mormons knock on the door I feel it's a little audacious, invite them in and debate them on the merits of their faith. But it's seen as a great thing to them to bring people to Christ. I am more of a philosopher rather than believing that I'm involved in some war...

[zugzwangist]

@TheBicusnicus1@Part2, It may be audacious but they don't deserve to be hated up to such an extent that people should slam the door on their face or send the dogs after them.I too invite them in and debate.I came across JH first time while was in rented accommodation in a Catholic majority Colony,after listening to them for few minutes and getting a brief idea about their beliefs ,I was compelled to advice them against visiting any other house ,i feared that they will be beaten .......

[zugzwangist]

.......and they replied that my fear is true and they are aware of it.Now I stay in a different place/state (hindu majority) ,I invite them in ,much to the displeasure of my wife (Reasonable,as I am in town only on weekends, and they visit on Saturdays only),Recently a young lady was coming (always with another JH) on consecutive Saturdays,did not return again after I disagreed with their beliefs about blood transfusion .OR maybe because she has not yet returned from her native place.

[TheBicusnicus1]

@zugzwangist I also had a similar disagreement over the transfusion bit, also I questioned how they were so sure their version was correct and that other Christians had it wrong, and whether people who didn't know their truth still went to heaven. They haven't been back for ten years now.

[zugzwangist]

@TheBicusnicus1 ,I think they keep a meticulous record of the addresses that are not to be visited again.

I demanded a copy of their version of Bible ,a hard bound one, she gave it the following week (off-course free).On the outer cover it says Holy scriptures and not Holy Bible,

It is obvious that if they cannot debate with a person like me who has very little knowledge of Bible then how iwill it possible to convince someone who is familiar with it?

Also see youtube video watch?v=0x7YTAvJ39I

[zugzwangist]

@TheBicusnicus1 ,I argued that If blood transfusion is able to save somebody's life ,it should be resorted to and stopping such life saving process is CRIMINAL notwithstanding anything stated in any religious book!

And suing any medical emergency staff for not reading the NO BLOOD CARD and administering blood to a JH will surely land them HELL (if there is one)

[TheBicusnicus1]

Respond to this video...Part 3- I would rather search out the things we have in common than the things that are different. I know many Christians are pumped up with their own self righteousness. Believe me when I say I am not. That being said, I still think what happened there is horrible and may all parties find forgiveness from each other and build a stronger community based upon a stronger and better educated community. I truly do hope for a better future for all involved.

[zugzwangist]

The missionaries in their zeal to "save more lambs" sometimes do forget this simple rule and the result is disastrous, the fault of the missionaries is evident if one pays attention to the fact that a great number of people in hindu soceity do recognize jesus as one of the Divine entity(although it may be contrary to christian beliefs)and some even have a place for jesus on their altar!!

[zugzwangist]

This tolerance is displayed inspite of the fact that some westerners and also people from your country indulge in insult and denigration of hindu spiritual symbols in a deliberate manner ,without any obvious provocation from hindu side ,on a time to time basis in the name of art and freedom!!!But everything does have its limits and things definitely go out of control for everybody ,including overburdened security  personnel!!!

.

[TheBicusnicus1]

@zugzwangist I haven't seen any denigration of Hindu symbols here. In fact there is a Hindu temple in my home town and I performed some electrical work on it. I often give pilgrims a lift to temple, some decline as they believe the pilgrimage is part of their worship. I often go there and enjoy a masala dosa. The manager there didn't respect our labour laws and was exploiting workers there. Our union movement here made sure they were paid correctly and were put into correct housing. Would...

[zugzwangist]

@TheBicusnicus1 ,There is an Australian designer by name Lisa Ray ,who however immediately apologized for the reported denigration .It was in case of a fashion show in which models were paraded in bikini which had images of hindu gods.The incident might not have come to your notice,but here there was much resentment.

I am of the opinion that the worshipers associated with the temple should follow the prevalent law of the land and pay the due wages as per the norms of the country!

[TheBicusnicus1]

@zugzwangist It didn't, but that sort of stuff happens a lot with all religions I know. I don't think that would've been a Christian attacking Hindu culture or anything though. More likely some trendy empty headed humanist that thought the images looked cool. That sort of stuff annoys me also if it is used only to sell merchandise. Like the bastardisation of Che's image to sell stuff in a capitalist society when his message was completely the opposite. It exasperates me more than angers though.

[zugzwangist]

If they cannot afford then they should complete the work by "Shramdhan"(if the law permits),instead of involving into an conflict with labour unions,

I guess the workers involved are indian migrants ,or maybe i am wrong in guessing .Still you union has done a good job!!

[TheBicusnicus1]

Respond to this video...you suggest I behave as the people did in this video? Of course not. Even if some worshippers did the wrong thing, by undercutting our wages, it wouldn't be right to treat them that way. I am sincerely sorry for any anguish you are feeling, and if you feel I have fired any questions at you for that I am also sorry. My intention was only to promote thought and inquiry not to attack you. I thought that would've come across as I didn't use exclamation marks.

[zugzwangist]

@TheBicusnicus1 ,yeah!You are very correct in saying that it wouldn't be right to treat them in a violent manner.In this case they tried to steal what was rightful to the workers,your union intervened,the manager and the worshipers understood their mistake paid the correct wages and made the necessary arrangements for accommodation(maybe rather reluctantly),the problem is solved and there was no need for any violent conflict.Almost same case with Lisa ray.there was no

[TheBicusnicus1]

@zugzwangist Part-1:What I mean is there is never any reason for violence. It has never been and would never be in my mind to attack them or anyone else. You may have seen the images of the Cronulla riots over here. We have a minority of Muslims (minority within their own community) calling for Sharia law to be instituted here and for a war on democracy as "it is incompatible with Islam". We also have some head strong members of the Lebanese Islamic community (who are unrelated to this)...cont.

[TheBicusnicus1]

Part-2: that try and intimidate or beat up other people and believe that they are justified as some people here are racist and treat them with disrespect. They are belligerent and a volatile minority, but nonetheless are present. There have also been some raced based gang rapings of girls of Anglo/Celtic origin by other gangs from the same community. There are also some extremely nationalistic and racist Australians of Anglo/Celtic origin and some surfer gangs of mixed race, but predominantly...

[TheBicusnicus1]

Pat-3: Anglo/Celtic origin. There is also a tendency within the mainstream media to inflame as opposed to inform debate about these issues, a similar trait shared by some of the Indian media I've seen over the net on the beatings of Indian students in Melbourne and Sydney. The toxic mix of underlying tensions, belligerence and the hate crimes that were not adequately redressed by the Lakemban Lebanese community, who were more interested in pointing out that they were unfairly being placed ...

[TheBicusnicus1]

Part-4: under the microscope than doing any real soul searching over the racially driven gang rapes being perpetrated by some within their community, were a powder keg that exploded when a lifeguard at Cronulla was beaten up by some members of the Lakemban Lebanese community after telling them to stop kicking their soccer ball at sunbathers. This act led to the bigoted, ugly and belligerent crowd that congregated at Cronulla to "take back the beach". What followed was one of the most ugly ...

[TheBicusnicus1]

Part-5: and evil demonstrations of what a frenzied crowd are capable of. Although no one was killed the images of what happened there are horrible. That same event is what I saw playing out in Orissa. A crowd ready to lynch an entire community over the actions of some within the Christian community. Issues unrelated to an assassination, such as the disrespect that community showed to Hinduism became a reason to do unspeakable things to other human beings. This poisonous hatred can never be...

[TheBicusnicus1]

Part-6: beaten out of another's heart, nor can the violence undo what has been done. I do not condone the ignorant hate crimes that happen here and I certainly do not condone the hate filled violence I saw in Orissa. I hope you understand my position, and sorry for such a long post.

[zugzwangist]

......death threat issued,only angry protests , a prompt apology ended the matter. I am sorry for my crap English and unnecessary use of Exclamation marks!!!!!!

And please also understand that I used the word "fired" just because the questions were in quick succession and not because of I felt offended or something of that sort.I do agree that you did not intend to hurt /attack me.

This particular video is unable to shed light on the full truth and is strongly biased.

[TheBicusnicus1]

@zugzwangist No worries, and peace be upon you. I hope you have a great weekend! :)

[zugzwangist]

......when it uses the word "persecution". The conflict between the hindu tribal kandhas and the christian pana caste is existing for many years and the truth about the actual events in the past and the recent incidents can be found out by referring sources such as Wikipedia which is accepted as being fairly neutral ,

[zugzwangist]

Popes representative said before UN few weeks back that Christians are the most persecuted worldwide BUT according to the reports that i came across he refrained from naming the main persecutors ! And if the reports are true then it makes the statement a halftruth!

[TheBicusnicus1]

...not alone in this madness, but it takes a brave and enlightened man to see past their own bigotry and begin to build bridges. My question to you is are you brave or enlightened. Do you have the courage to do what is right. Will you speak out against injustice no matter who it may target, or will you like so many on this planet fall into the mob and lynch the different. I am sorry for your loss, but can you honestly say that the people who were murdered here were responsible or martyrs? Peace.

[zugzwangist]

@TheBicusnicus1 ,i too want to put before you questions identical to those you have fired at me but not before answering yours !!! Well,There are some questions which are not to be answered in a plain "yes" or "no" fashion,otherwise the truth will be masked!!! Kindly take time and go through each comment i have posted and analyse them taking into consideration in what context it is posted in a wholesome manner and let me know from you whether i speak against injustice or not!!

[zugzwangist]

If you look at the victims (both hindu S/T and christian pana S/T} in a technical manner , individually , almost everybody is innocent .

[zugzwangist]

@glijo41, Wa sahabi Kay yam feema Kamil Hinda e Yauman , Wa Yakulam na latabahan foeennak Tawajjaru.

a poem by Prophet Mohammed’s uncle Omar-bin-e-Hassham.

meaning:-Oh Lord grant me but one day’s sojourn in Hind, Where one can attain spiritual bliss

[glijo41]

1 thing i wanna ask to every1that is there anyone who can wash our sins and give us an eternal life after our death????????every1 wish and want to go to heaven but the way to reach there is only through Jesus........

[zugzwangist]

@glijo41 ,if " heaven" is the place where christians will be there then it is better to go to " hell "!!!

[glijo41]

1 thing i wanna say to all Hindus that u have many gods and goddess but is there anyone who has come to this world and gave his precious and innocent life for the sake of all humans to redeem their lives from sin and to give eternal life......I can proudly say that Jesus did this......he was innocent then also he died for our sins...........and now he's goin to come ,not like that as he cam before but this time he will judge the world with righteousness and to punish the wicked.

[zugzwangist]

@glijo41 ,christians have only one Gawd, Why did he/she/it did not come in person and instead sent a JEW, only to be beaten and killed on a stake like an ordinary criminal!In which job was IT so busy that IT needed to outsource the job!

[pvivekvijayan]

@glijo41 Get lost dumb ass..

[glijo41]

For this is what the LORD Almighty says: "After he has honored me and has sent me against the nations that have plundered you--for whoever touches you touches the apple of his eye.Zechariah 2:8

[neo3828]

A true Hindu would never do such a thing!!

[zugzwangist]

@neo3828 ,you are right!Xtians created the mischief and the clashes started,both sides suffered damage BUT the "sickular" media has been almost successful in portraying that only  Xtians are the victims!

[MegaPapicholo]

jesus crist saves us

[hross233]

I would not want to be the ones who beat these people who have to stand before the Lord on judgment. Even if the Christians forgive those who hurt them, vengeance is the Lord's.

[geez5656]

Hey China, please invade India and clean the shit up!

[zugzwangist]

@geez5656 ,hey china ke chamche!! why you want chinese help to clean the shit? why dont you carry all this stinking goddamned missionaries AKA choirboy lovers to your shithole called australia in a peaceful manner?

[hero1234378]

poor people persecuted for what they took to heart....

[ChrilleCoD]

Fuck you Hindu suck Jesus balls

[zugzwangist]

@ChrilleCoD ,Dont get excited by reports of imaginery persecution of Xtians in INDIA!! How can your brothers be persecuted when they are the ones who are ruling the country through Vatican agent Italian Ex-barmaid Fonia Firangi?? Rather spend your energy to Save your own country and women from being raped by piss-lam!

[MsMuna143]

i want see

[SURREYCARS]

Yey log hindu k nam per kulunk (black spot) hay. I am Hindu but I support these Christians. They have full right to follow any faith. Bhagwan say you can't spoil those thing which you can't create. Common wakeup you just kill that person who feed his family. Shame on you. Bhagwan tumharey ghar ka sutyanash karey tumharey buchey bhee asey he marey. JAI SHREE KRISHNA JAI MATA DEE

[zugzwangist]

@SURREYCARS !! yeah christians have full right to follow any faith and murder ,loot ,arson and rape because India is a Sickular country!!

[LoireNinha1]

what hell OMG what is this??? they just believe in god, just want stay nest to god, omg im really upset, i think everyone is upset or whatever, but look they dont think that god gonna save as every place they we go ??? tell me what is the problem is jesus? omg i wanna say fuck u for the person say that jesus is a shit i wanna kill then!!;@

[undy999]

goons not needed by humanity. kill all missionaries

[monicacaw]

@undy999 "We persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed. We who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal " and i say this in honor of all Christian martyrs. They are in a better place now anyways. Lord bless you and hopefully give you a rude awakening.

[zugzwangist]

@monicacaw ! Did jesus tell to murder Swami Laxmananda and start all this trouble for the sides?

[TheBicusnicus1]

@zugzwangist Didn't the Maoists take responsibility for that?

[zugzwangist]

@TheBicusnicus1 ,Who hired the maoists??Who killed Dhanu Pradhan??The pana christians were responsible for the violence!It appears Indian Christians declared a salient war against most peace loving Hindu community by hiding under the minority cover. They must remember world is watching their unethical behaviors using western money. Should Christians unnecessary making a hill out of mole, most likely they get alienated from main stream due to stupid decisions of criminal minded pastors..

[pvivekvijayan]

@zugzwangist Rightly said bro..

[undy999]

Fuck all Christian Missonaries...enemies of Peace

[jessecalvary7]

@undy999 how could you ever make such a statement ! I know you aren't a believer but are u even a human.

[zugzwangist]

@jessecalvary7 ,yeah ! which human in right state of mind wold make such statement

[MrTurshi]

gay hindASStan

[zugzwangist]

@MrTurshi ,PORKstani pille !!!!Wait for Gazwa-e-porkistan di phuddi !!!You will pay for the atrocities you are committing on Xistians and other faiths in Porkistan!!

[TheMegaharrypotter]

ITS SHAME ON INDIA THE KNOWN, LARGEST DEMOCRATIC SECULAR COUNTRY.........

[zugzwangist]

@TheMegaharrypotter ,kindly clear your misconceptions!! India is not a secular country ,its constitution and the laws enacted are pro-islam and pro-xtians!!!!Hindus are living as second class citizens!!!

[TheJose2786]

great democratic India! own people crying just because they accepted jesus christ... let me ask one question to hindu friends ... have you ever allowed scheduled caste or schedule tribe people inside the temples?????? no know then shut up and go on with yr stupid idols... dont touch us... they are my sisters& brothers in christ!

[zugzwangist]

@TheJose2786 ,Secularists/commies/missionar­ies/mullahs have used caste to flog the Hindus into feeling ashamed. They have used Hindus as a scapegoat to hide their own inadequacies. For too long Hindus, have suffered humiliation and taunts about the evils of caste system.!!

[zugzwangist]

When Muslims were ruling India from 1000 AD to 1800 AD, they have been called the great Mughals. Akbar was Great. Babar was Great. Under the Mughal rules, the Brahmins who were slaves of Muslims were exploiting backward classes? How? They were not teaching to the lower castes. Why were the great Mughals who governed helpless to look after the interests of lower caste Hindus. 

[zugzwangist]

The all powerful British could not stop the Brahmins from breaking the temples constructed by Dalits? Then how can they be called great? if they could not stop this casteism? . What were the so called Enlightened British doing, they had the White Man's burden. Why didn't they lift the lower castes up?? What stopped them from doing it for 200 years? .

[zugzwangist]

@TheJose2786 ,no one will touch your "sisters and brothers"if they behave like" christians" and not like Taliban! jihadis!!!Now just shut up and go and go on with yr stupid idols of the RC church, the stupid dead jew hanging like a zombie on a cross,the cross, the statues of mary etc etc!!!

[martyrindia]

Those pastors who thought to show other cheek should be killed , Innocent Christians lost their lives...