@tosgem It actually says 1978 if you google "I see red Split Enz" and take the first wiki entry out of the search results. Even if a band is formed before the other or not, its the music that influences the other that counts, and it is clearly that this film clip here has Devo influences in it, as this song was made in 1978/77, Devo was formed beforehand and also was making music before that song, with this true, then it is highly possible that the music of Devo could of influenced it.
As far as universal knowledge of Devo goes ( meaning the mass of population of the world) then it was " Whip It " that truely put " Devo " on the world map and not any others before hand.
ahhh, i remember when i was like 10 rocking out to this song. i first saw it on this cd that had like the top 50 NZ songs at this time, there was renegade fighter and this song.
This is what happens in the rugby off season in a time and place with no internet and sheep dog trials is prime tv viewing - fucked up, amazing creativity! Love it!!!
@TheKathkat - he had only just been recruited by big bro'!! Listen carefully for the GO!! as legend has it, it was Niels cue from the rest of the band to to "come in". I guessed he showed then in the end with a ripper solo and writing some of the better Enz songs!!
I get hysterical every time I see it..! I don't know why, I just can't stop laughing=) Every their video is like an absurd music comedy, and they were so wonderfully mad, so
laughable (in a good way), so outstanding in the late 70's... Adore their music, adore their style, adore Tim & Neil, adore Split Enz..! Thank you.
Whenever I watch vids like this, it really strikes me how broad and deep the influence Devo had on pop culture. From these guys, Talking Heads, B52s up to bands like Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Soundgarden, and Pearl Jam.
@itsanameisntit I can see why you might think Devo influenced the ENZ but without any criticism re your comment, you will find the ENZ were around before DEVO was formed and were doing all that wonderful crazy stuff of their own volition. It certainly is no put down to be compared to DEVO. Best Rgds
Love this song ... although I coulda done without the torment (as a redheaded little kid in Australia) from the other kids whenever the song played. "Haha! I see Red! There he goes! Phhhht! AAAhahaahaahahaaa!!" Ah... childhood.
THIS SONG IS AWESOMMMEEEE!!!!! o and the guys r wellll fitt:) the year this came out was the best day of my life:P lol joke i wasnt born and no i dont want to come into your minicab!
they changed there name from Split Ends to Split Enz before they left for there first trip to Australia because they wanted to represent New Zealand as there roots
I havent heard this in ages. NZ produces some of the most talented people, not just singers and bands but give the world many fine actors and actresses.They may be small in size(except the moari's) but they have the biggests hearts. I will always buy any New Zealander a cold Aussie beer. Cheers to all our brothers and sisters across the Tasman!! We will always remember and honour the ANZACS!!
classic treborif - great story, lol ! I'm from Cork Ireland and loved Enz in my late teens in the 80s. Just superb. I lived in Wellington in the 90s and saw the Finns in various concerts...talented band, were the 'Enz but I guess Crowded House benefited!. Ireland has plenty of affinity with the Finns as they're from a very Irish family!!
got beaten up by a dyke in a bar in kings cross cos she wouldnt believe the Enz were kiwis! - still bear the scars! - she had Icy-Dicey tattooed on her forehead! KIWIs rule!!!
those were the days, when you could go up the cross and be beaten up by a girl with a facial tatoo. i've always had a soft spot for chicks with 'fuck off' tatooed on the inside of the lower lip.
@BabySamGray had to come to Oz to get on the dole too! - i was 18 it was 1979 and she was one tuff 'lady' - sitting there muttering loudly (in oz accent) 'theres only 1 thing i hate more then bloody abo's and wogs and thets bloody kiwis'
@BabySamGray shit happens...dumb guy from oklahoma went to boston pranked them all. Just staring at the top of the buildings for 20min, when the crowd formed looking up he faded to the rear. Came back 30min later still small crowd. He asked "what are ya lookin' at" some beaner in the crowd says "I dunno"
You're all fucking stupid. New Zealand was a british colony until the early 40s, when it gained independence. We have since then had alliances with Australia and the USA.
In terms of geography, NZ is definitely Southern, yet in term of culture, we're our own.
Split Enz was an NZ band comprising of Tim and Neil Finn and Phil Judd. They had success in NZ, Australia and the US, but they're definitely New Zealanders.
Just sit back and enjoy the song, that's what it's here for.
Pearl Jam did a cover of this song. Another interesting little fact, Split Enz released the single six months in a leaky boat when Britain was at war with Argentina in the Falkland Islands. The general Belgrano had just been sunk, and the song got no radio play, the powers that be didnt want songs about leaky boats on the airwaves!!
New Zealand is southern only by geography. In terms of society, we are very much western, and will always emulate the styles of hegemonic western culture modes. I don't dispute that. What I do dispute is your assumption that it makes modern NZ musicians 'faggits'. Also, notice Split Enz's style. Looks an awful lot like Brit Art Rock, doesn't it? With the delight of uniquely New Zealand influences. You'll find the same in modern NZ music, if you care to listen.
haha you need to do someresearch before you go calling n.z southern, its a societal-cutltural thing. Europe is the tradtional west, yet people wanting to destroy the west call america west, which it is. These days it is less to do with geographical location, and more with the people who occupy the land
I love Split Enz !! I see red is Sort of Scooby Dooish. LoL !! boganlessons got me laughing !!
captainarcher2 1 week ago
at 0:12 does anyone eles hear him say "with my penis walking down the street i see red i see red i see red!" XD
Split Endz and dirty minds FTW!!! :D
boganlessons 1 week ago
speed skaten at the Benowa ice rink :)
jensema1001 1 week ago
Thumbs up if Frenzy happens to be your favorite album ever, it certainly is for me :)
Troyman021 2 weeks ago
mental
mattyk722 2 weeks ago
when i get called an Aussie i see red i see red.
Mrfunnybutt 1 month ago
That woman's silhouette is hot LOL
SirAaron29 2 months ago
split enz ahead of their time and continued to make great music ..
tajacko22 2 months ago
they're kind awful.
12lmeganl12 2 months ago
the finn bros
MyAruga 2 months ago
1:45 wtf?
zaqxsw943 2 months ago
Neil TORE UP that solo!!! :)
SirAaron29 2 months ago
Better than devo, but you can tell they were influenced by them.
Australiano75 2 months ago
@Australiano75 Influenced by Devo?! Whipit came out in 1981. This song is about 1977
tosgem 2 months ago
@tosgem Devo formed in 1973. Their music was world known by 1976 and correction to your previous statement, this song came out in 1978.
Australiano75 1 month ago
@Australiano75 Wikipedia says I see Red was 1977. And Split Enz formed in 1971, two years before devo.
tosgem 1 month ago
@tosgem It actually says 1978 if you google "I see red Split Enz" and take the first wiki entry out of the search results. Even if a band is formed before the other or not, its the music that influences the other that counts, and it is clearly that this film clip here has Devo influences in it, as this song was made in 1978/77, Devo was formed beforehand and also was making music before that song, with this true, then it is highly possible that the music of Devo could of influenced it.
Australiano75 1 month ago
@Australiano75
Doubted very much so.
MrSuperiority 3 weeks ago
@Australiano75
As far as universal knowledge of Devo goes ( meaning the mass of population of the world) then it was " Whip It " that truely put " Devo " on the world map and not any others before hand.
MrSuperiority 3 weeks ago
Comment removed
Squeech77 3 months ago
@Squeech77
You seem to know that word well.
19b00ts77 3 months ago
better go back to your sheeple music mate
19b00ts77 3 months ago
1:01 did he just say "i see my penis walking down the street i see red i see red i see red"? gotta love nz music :)
boganlessons 3 months ago 2
the funny thing everything they're wearing is back in fashion
johnpaulsialafau 3 months ago 3
This has been flagged as spam show
great , funny!!
belfordmusic.blogspot.com
modernistik 3 months ago
@BrisbaneGoFish
Your a soft cock. I'm sick of aussie trying to take our stuff like, Pharlap and the pavlova.
RAWRmerrz 4 months ago 3
this song makes me want to jog on the spot
CmObyrne 4 months ago
Everytime I go and have a good drink I see red everywhere but ecellent guitaring.
TheMurri1 4 months ago
@TheMurri1 COMMENT :)
TheBrennybroo 2 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
I never like these NZ soft cocks.
BrisbaneGoFish 4 months ago
@BrisbaneGoFish lol what a bitch :D
yersimapestis 4 months ago
@BrisbaneGoFish .I bet you were into Jason Donovan instead.
alastairjr40 4 months ago
ahhh, i remember when i was like 10 rocking out to this song. i first saw it on this cd that had like the top 50 NZ songs at this time, there was renegade fighter and this song.
bananashooster 4 months ago
im pretty sure their aussie...lol
Mrfunnybutt 5 months ago
@Mrfunnybutt No, They just moved t australia for a while to make money. New zealand wasto small an audience
yersimapestis 4 months ago
@yersimapestis Its always the same story eh?
reangerer 4 months ago
@Mrfunnybutt These people are kiwis ya dumb cunt.
TheNZCountryBoy 2 months ago
@TheNZCountryBoy you got trolleddddd, whos the dumb cunt now bitch?
Mrfunnybutt 2 months ago
Nice clothes :P
igotscamed1 5 months ago
I had no idea this was a Split Enz song :)
erinnrc 5 months ago
This is what happens in the rugby off season in a time and place with no internet and sheep dog trials is prime tv viewing - fucked up, amazing creativity! Love it!!!
herbology1 5 months ago
got here from lol forums. yes
MigasKiko 5 months ago 11
I don't really like this......
mitaine111 5 months ago
This is back in the days when little brother Neil wasn't allowed to come out front.
vanjane 6 months ago
MORRRRRGGGGZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
TheSLO030 6 months ago
How can someone wicked walk around free? I See Red....RED!!!
SKOTP69 6 months ago
Just wondering if these guys were ever labeled the New Zealand Devo???
MagnusVideos 6 months ago
Look at Neil Finn - I know a couple of chords :-) Too cute!
TheKathkat 7 months ago
@TheKathkat - he had only just been recruited by big bro'!! Listen carefully for the GO!! as legend has it, it was Niels cue from the rest of the band to to "come in". I guessed he showed then in the end with a ripper solo and writing some of the better Enz songs!!
MusicMaster1974 5 months ago
Comment removed
TheKathkat 7 months ago
i love how they played this at the reds game last night :D but its funny because their a kiwi band hahaha
maccas1329 7 months ago
KIWI MUSIC AT ITS BEST!!!!!!!!!!
thejacksen141 7 months ago
This was in their punky crazy days - how they changed!!
stevemcarthur1981 7 months ago
wasnt this song in a john hughes movie?
BRm2008 7 months ago
ROCKS school day memories singing this song!!
lastniuean 8 months ago
Wonderful memories of my music studies in NZ comes alive with this song! I love split Enz, too bad most people in Sweden doesn´t know this band!!!
hannaallmo 8 months ago
These guys were so far ahead of the curve. I loved them when I was four years old and I still love them.
iamjanan 8 months ago
MASTERPIECE!!!
SKOTP69 8 months ago
Weird video but classic song
whish92 9 months ago
I get hysterical every time I see it..! I don't know why, I just can't stop laughing=) Every their video is like an absurd music comedy, and they were so wonderfully mad, so
laughable (in a good way), so outstanding in the late 70's... Adore their music, adore their style, adore Tim & Neil, adore Split Enz..! Thank you.
GreenBaldrick 9 months ago 2
4 people see red
JazzFishGameCentre 10 months ago 7
Looks like hes jerking off at 1:46.
PortandFreo 10 months ago 3
i post this on rangas walls and just laugh hahaha
MetalcoreMechanic 10 months ago
red red red red they love red
BuddieBoi18 11 months ago
i love this song i peformed it at my consrt
BuddieBoi18 11 months ago
Whenever I watch vids like this, it really strikes me how broad and deep the influence Devo had on pop culture. From these guys, Talking Heads, B52s up to bands like Nirvana, Foo Fighters, Soundgarden, and Pearl Jam.
itsanameisntit 11 months ago
@itsanameisntit I can see why you might think Devo influenced the ENZ but without any criticism re your comment, you will find the ENZ were around before DEVO was formed and were doing all that wonderful crazy stuff of their own volition. It certainly is no put down to be compared to DEVO. Best Rgds
Smoofee 10 months ago
Love this song ... although I coulda done without the torment (as a redheaded little kid in Australia) from the other kids whenever the song played. "Haha! I see Red! There he goes! Phhhht! AAAhahaahaahahaaa!!" Ah... childhood.
vinsgraphics 11 months ago
always were and still are years ahead of their time, the pure genius of tim and neil finn.
smoo70 1 year ago
I love " I see red" !!! You never get to hear real music like this anymore..Split Enz are WAY COOL !!
captainarcher2 1 year ago
At 1:52 is that the original Kiwi invention of Michael Jackson's moonwalk? lol
erosromantic 1 year ago
Sounds ahead of it's time!
MordaciousFilms 1 year ago
never seen this before, glad i came across it
k40emporer 1 year ago
never seen this before, glad i came accross it
k40emporer 1 year ago
art vs science did a rendition of this and its AWESOME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You should listen to it
toshiba180vs 1 year ago
this song rocks classic Kiwi band yeahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
kenandjan100 1 year ago
THIS SONG IS AWESOMMMEEEE!!!!! o and the guys r wellll fitt:) the year this came out was the best day of my life:P lol joke i wasnt born and no i dont want to come into your minicab!
WW2Today 1 year ago
WA Reds rugby league song
hemijamz22 1 year ago
blue
tomsfnthedudes 1 year ago
Actually in their most popular line up they were 2 kiwis, 2 auzzies and 2 brits
RealBlomqvist 1 year ago
song used for speed skating at roller disco broadmeadows!!!
sjr4444 1 year ago
Perfection.
JoshsRanger 1 year ago
this is so great!
lollipopthug 1 year ago
So is this the theme song for the US 2010 elections?
Grashan 1 year ago 2
Adelaide United!
HolaDeco 1 year ago
Love Split Enz <3
they changed there name from Split Ends to Split Enz before they left for there first trip to Australia because they wanted to represent New Zealand as there roots
so yeah they are Kiwi
SheenaToy 1 year ago 2
I am really proud to be a kiwi . :D
MadforKirean 1 year ago 2
Timski97, thanks, I just fell off my stool reading your comment!
ianbrown3003 1 year ago
best ending!
Wade3Brad6 1 year ago
The four people who disliked this are gingers
TheCoincidence 1 year ago
Man I want one of those coats. From a time when people dressed to stand out not fit in. Refreshing. Kinda reminds me of the Vapors.
Interesterified 1 year ago
@fallingfromjupitar fuk you new zealand a clean green place
zamurock 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
got to love it
MrPilotboy1 1 year ago
48,281 views. The whole of New Zealand has watched this twice?
fallingfromjupiter 1 year ago 4
@fallingfromjupiter
...wat
GurgleOneSixSix 1 year ago
@GurgleOneSixSix I'm calling NZ small
fallingfromjupiter 1 year ago
@fallingfromjupiter
i see
GurgleOneSixSix 1 year ago
@fallingfromjupiter thats not even half the population of wellington lol
dumdumbinks274 1 year ago
@dumdumbinks274 lol don't tell anyone that they'll make fun of us
fallingfromjupiter 1 year ago
@fallingfromjupiter Im an Ozzie and Ive watched it 3 times. I fucking love this song :)
TheBrennybroo 2 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Every cover I've ever heard of this song is better than the original.
dpenston 1 year ago
@dpenston bullshit
tavspop 1 year ago
@tavspop I second that!!!
simonhead666 1 year ago
@simonhead666 Maybe I have not heard all the possible covers. Howbout You?
tavspop 1 year ago
@tavspop There's nothing wrong with this version.. all the other versions are either too fast or too distorted (guitars)
You have to give the original version it's due.. It's what all the other versions came from..
simonhead666 1 year ago
@simonhead666 the only cover i know of is done by eddie vedder/ pearl jam. Its good, but does not compare. Do you know of others?
tavspop 1 year ago
My Wages can't quite cover my expenses, this is seeing red LOL. Love the Song
novalee66 1 year ago
I havent heard this in ages. NZ produces some of the most talented people, not just singers and bands but give the world many fine actors and actresses.They may be small in size(except the moari's) but they have the biggests hearts. I will always buy any New Zealander a cold Aussie beer. Cheers to all our brothers and sisters across the Tasman!! We will always remember and honour the ANZACS!!
MrOribear 1 year ago 23
@MrOribear good on u bro NZder's like to hear some people who recognize them. By the way great song!
JA50NHAPPY 1 year ago
@MrOribear like ryce darby!!!
axeman5898 5 months ago
Neil's greatest guitar solo...
Like driving fast with your eyes shut....
daveleslie64 1 year ago 2
the period song
slipknotmetalhead13 1 year ago
unreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeal!!!!
artiguista18 1 year ago
i saw them preform this live at house on the hill in cairns back in 1980 something
wideboymurdoch1 1 year ago
All of this is happening because wii failed to make Hillary emperess of the world. (Aramis Deceives) See?
Lovesock69able 1 year ago
eww disgusting. keep dat shit 2 urself. we aint wanna hear that u egg
gloreal 1 year ago
Hitler formed a band in his teens?
KetamineFix 1 year ago 2
the brothers doing it together at 1:37....
BrynRob 1 year ago
Depends which war you're talking about....
losttango 1 year ago
i LOVE THIS SONG so much !!!!!!
ozpunk2 1 year ago
"I see" that i am enjoying this cant got it from my kiwi music video
samotguy 1 year ago 2
THAT was strange. That must be what an acid trip is like. (LOL)
simfaithguitar1 2 years ago 2
@simfaithguitar1 lol hahahaha, true true, maybe
ocrag 1 year ago
@simfaithguitar1
kinda.
not exactly.
ugenesfun 1 year ago
@simfaithguitar1 no acid is way more disjointed
ardvarkill 1 year ago
classic treborif - great story, lol ! I'm from Cork Ireland and loved Enz in my late teens in the 80s. Just superb. I lived in Wellington in the 90s and saw the Finns in various concerts...talented band, were the 'Enz but I guess Crowded House benefited!. Ireland has plenty of affinity with the Finns as they're from a very Irish family!!
pauloheypaulo 2 years ago
a great kiwi band
wwemac123nz 2 years ago
Best end to a song.
Pothatuu 2 years ago
FUCKIN Fantastic!!!..........Absol fucken lutely loved this song.......And it still gets my heart thumping
mosaic61 2 years ago
got beaten up by a dyke in a bar in kings cross cos she wouldnt believe the Enz were kiwis! - still bear the scars! - she had Icy-Dicey tattooed on her forehead! KIWIs rule!!!
treborif 2 years ago 36
@treborif lmfao aussie aussie aussie
Morgazmz 11 months ago
@treborif
those were the days, when you could go up the cross and be beaten up by a girl with a facial tatoo. i've always had a soft spot for chicks with 'fuck off' tatooed on the inside of the lower lip.
woooooooowwwwwwwwwww 5 months ago
@treborif
Kiwi's Rule? Yet you had to come to Oz to be beaten up by a dyke!
BabySamGray 5 months ago
@BabySamGray had to come to Oz to get on the dole too! - i was 18 it was 1979 and she was one tuff 'lady' - sitting there muttering loudly (in oz accent) 'theres only 1 thing i hate more then bloody abo's and wogs and thets bloody kiwis'
treborif 5 months ago
@BabySamGray shit happens...dumb guy from oklahoma went to boston pranked them all. Just staring at the top of the buildings for 20min, when the crowd formed looking up he faded to the rear. Came back 30min later still small crowd. He asked "what are ya lookin' at" some beaner in the crowd says "I dunno"
GrigoriZhukov 5 months ago
hhahaa...nice song...lol..!!!!!!
Mykingdomheart02 2 years ago
5 star!
exetemple 2 years ago 4
This has been flagged as spam show
Quite a fitting song, I found blood in my stool today.
Timski97 2 years ago 29
WIN.
annoyedwithsignup 2 years ago
you have too much fucking time on your hands
upurassskunk 2 years ago
Good. That means you're going to die.
TheGend 2 years ago
@Timski97
TMFI, mate :P
psychobollox 1 year ago
quite a fiting song for today
RAYHALO 2 years ago 6
Perfect Song For Today!!! There's a dust storm in Sydney!!!! And I woke up and everything is red!!!!!
thepretenda 2 years ago 64
@thepretenda i remember that day lol
josh65780 1 year ago
@thepretenda You know what they say: Red at night, shepherds delight, Red in the morning, shepherds warning.
zakman246 7 months ago
Comment removed
DonnyPepquoi 2 years ago
So what if they liked Aussie, no one gives a shit about that either.
acidicsmilex 2 years ago
Comment removed
DonnyPepquoi 2 years ago
Plenty do, just not Australians, just like Kiwis don't like Australians.
acidicsmilex 2 years ago
No..... no one. No one.
DonnyPepquoi 2 years ago
Whatever, I'm not gonna start up a big argument. You have your opinion, I have mine
acidicsmilex 2 years ago
uhhh, i dont have a problem with nz, and im australian. k thnx :|
mkehoe93 2 years ago 3
My second favourite NZ song.
GREAT Song.
entabeniair 2 years ago
Omg it so does i was listening to that on the rock this morning lol its a good song
XJayxKatX 2 years ago
First words sounds like "pull my penis walking down the street, i see red i see red i see red.."
No Offence to it.. LOVE the song, im only 13 but i am wayyyy into my countries old rock songs....
And this has to be one of the best!!!!!
And no i wasnt being immature about the first thing either.. its just i noticed it
allhalejed 2 years ago
good song,sick dancin
TheMRmontana 2 years ago
Often copied, never bettered.
Thanks for posting
14rnr 2 years ago
Why don't you all stop bitching and just watch the video?
And btw, I'm a New Zealander :)
WoodRatGirl 2 years ago 4
You're all fucking stupid. New Zealand was a british colony until the early 40s, when it gained independence. We have since then had alliances with Australia and the USA.
In terms of geography, NZ is definitely Southern, yet in term of culture, we're our own.
Split Enz was an NZ band comprising of Tim and Neil Finn and Phil Judd. They had success in NZ, Australia and the US, but they're definitely New Zealanders.
Just sit back and enjoy the song, that's what it's here for.
Twilighter02 2 years ago
10 January 1920, New Zealand received full independence
kakapomax 2 years ago
Oh, my bad. I was talking about the Treaty of Westminster, but I learned about that years ago...
Twilighter02 2 years ago
You are all a bunch of fuckwits...the lot of YOU....just enjoy the song...ENJOY!!....who gives a FUCK where Split Enz are from!!!
DonnyPepquoi 2 years ago 3
Worst ending since the sopranos series ended
AlexRSS8 2 years ago
theres a band called GRIZZLY BEAR.. i could swear they rip your style off! check em out
styace 2 years ago
Split Enz is the greatest New Zealand band Australia has ever been able to call its own.
TheGend 2 years ago 3
mi-sex wasnt bad and they were from NZ
AlexRSS8 2 years ago 2
on a side track to the below conversation.... always loved this song
Wadjet00 2 years ago 2
i cant find pearl jams cover??? it must be good if it exists!! :P lol
do u no where to find it??
filletobigmac 2 years ago
My Kiwi's theme song. I have to love it.
teacherlady66 2 years ago
Pearl Jam did a cover of this song. Another interesting little fact, Split Enz released the single six months in a leaky boat when Britain was at war with Argentina in the Falkland Islands. The general Belgrano had just been sunk, and the song got no radio play, the powers that be didnt want songs about leaky boats on the airwaves!!
unusualsuspect71 2 years ago
i persoanly love the guy with the tamborine!
God bless the 80's.
gussycorniche 2 years ago
I see what you mean - is he even a real musician?
JackBovine 2 years ago
i c red
sall444 2 years ago
Why is the main guy dancing so... wierdly???????????? but this is a good songgg =]
NixieMay 2 years ago
Tim looks so young here! I feel old now.
lifeboatB 2 years ago
Comment removed
Santaclausmas 2 years ago
It's called progress, you little ray of sunshine. And the youth of today are the old timers of tomorrow.
DarkPerdita 2 years ago
Comment removed
Santaclausmas 2 years ago
New Zealand is southern only by geography. In terms of society, we are very much western, and will always emulate the styles of hegemonic western culture modes. I don't dispute that. What I do dispute is your assumption that it makes modern NZ musicians 'faggits'. Also, notice Split Enz's style. Looks an awful lot like Brit Art Rock, doesn't it? With the delight of uniquely New Zealand influences. You'll find the same in modern NZ music, if you care to listen.
DarkPerdita 2 years ago
haha you need to do someresearch before you go calling n.z southern, its a societal-cutltural thing. Europe is the tradtional west, yet people wanting to destroy the west call america west, which it is. These days it is less to do with geographical location, and more with the people who occupy the land
korahaplayas 2 years ago