I never understood how you can be a Christian and a proud gay person, even when I was an atheist, I never understood that. The bible says its a sin. Lying, stealing and looking at people with lust are sins too. You cant steal, lie and lust, try not to stop and not ask for forgivness AND STILL THINK YOURE GOING TO HEAVEN. A proud gay person doesnt try to stop being gay and they dont ask for forgivness but still think theyre going to heaven. Its not a difference between sin but the person sinning
@babipassion25 Since people pick and choose what they follow then it's easy as a Christian or an atheist. Christians don't get up in arms about working on Sunday, eating shellfish or wearing mixed fabrics so this is just one more thing for them to choose from. Thing is people want to keep some reason to hate other people (of course with the plausible deniability of hate the sin love the sinner BS).
SHES GOING TO HELL AND THAT WIMPY CHRISTIAN SHOULD OF TOLD HER ON TV!!!!!! Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.
@Soul7Patrol Such a nice god you have there. Torturing people who love other people. If it were even possible that such a monster could exist I would spend my life cursing it. Thank goodness it isn't true.
@awatson945 You lack understanding, and maybe you should do your homework.GOD gives everyone a free-will choice on how they wanna live, so if they wanna live a sinful life then its not GOD fault you end up in hell but yourself to blame!...This women here is deceived and thats where shes heading.
He's not trying to justify sin. Jennifer, wants to justify her sin, despite what the Bible says. No sin is greater than another... We're well aware of that Jen, it's a different story when you try to justify your sin in a Biblical sense. Are your "spiritual leaders" reading from the same text?
@Hiprocksoul1 What sin? Being a lesbian isn't a sin. A.) There is no proof of god. B.) There is no proof that god wrote the bible. C.) The bible is inconsistent. D.) You can't prove the validity of the bible by using the bible.That's called circular reasoning.
@awatson945 hey there - that's cool mate - no reason Christians and athiests or people of other religions can't get along. That goes for gays as well. Please don't get disheartened by hateful Christians - we not all like that. Peace
@bagospannerz Hey, I'm hard on religion but in fact most of the people I know and love are Christian. I can respect religion so long as it's not used to deny people rights. Thank you. :) Peace.
All this talk of who is going to hell is unbiblical - the bible tells us not to ask who will ascend - that is to bring Christ down and not to ask who will go into the deep. We are not to tell anyone they are going to hell - we are to spread the gospel and let the holy spirit do it's work. God bless all.
So yes she will go to hell becasue she is living a lie! This is why i tell people to get out of Christianity, becasue it represents myths and lies. Look as this passive preacher? Afraid to tell someone the straight truth becasue he calls himslef speaking in love. I am an Israelite and as a Pastor i am sure they will not have me on TV in front of a homo answering these questions. Because I will not be mixing words or playing games. ALL HOMOSEXUALS will go to hell as the WORD SAYS!
@PastorDowell Do you have any evidence that this "word" is anything other than the beliefs of Iron age people who thought it was an abomination to eat shellfish or wear clothing of different materials? These people thought it okay to commit genocide. Why do you think it is the word of god?
I can see why Jennifer Knapp is reprobate with her lesbian lifestyle, she wants "Christianity on her terms", bringing up issues irrelevant to what's being addressed which is her homosexual lifestyle, asking why Botsford "isn't in her seat", all in an attempt to deflect. Bob Botsford, contrary what King is saying, is not judging her or anyone. He is sharing the truth with compassion in telling Knapp her lesbian lifestyle is sin, no way around it.
@Tsuruta1 Loving another person doesn't make one a reprobate. BTW: Most people in favor of slavery didn't hate black people. They loved them and just wanted what was best for them. They didn't judge black people they just new what was best for them. Kinda like you know what's best for gays and lesbians based on the writings of people who thought it was okay to kill children and eating shellfish was a sin. Great source for morality.
@awatson945 Typical gay fascist sophism, comparing the struggle of Black Americans to gay agendas, which for me is laughable, (I'm Black American), pulling Scripture out of context having no intent of real discernment of it's meaning, and calling opposition to people who are living homosexual lifestyles "hatred". Hardly worth the glib.
@Tsuruta1 They've done nothing to you and you want to judge them as reprobate. The shoe fits I'm afraid. Being black doesn't give you a magical gift to see into the heart of gays and lesbians and there is no basis outside of an ancient book that what they do is wrong. That makes you a bigot. And that's NOT sophistry.
@PastorDowell I'm not the most avid listener of gospel music, but now I know not to purchase any recordings of hers. She's a reprobate, and I say that with compassion.
@Tsuruta1 Like racists call black people epithets, with compassion. Nice, real nice. The human mind is so good at justifying bigotry. "Go ahead and hate your neighbor. Go ahead and cheat a friend. Do it in the name of heaven, you can justify it in the end." --One Tin Soldier.
@Tsuruta1 Your right, I would not advise any real true believers to listen to or follow anyone who's character does not line up with the nature of the Most High. This woman as well as people are closet devils! I will judge this, She is going to Hell, and this pastor is not a pastor. Condmenation is that light has come into this World, Jesus! And becasue he tells us what is darkness and what is light, the people who are in darkness experience condemnation. Why becasue they are sinning.
@PastorDowell Well I agree that unless Knapp is delivered from homosexuality, she will face horrible consequences at the Great White Throne Judgement, but I agree with Pastor Bosford. Sharing the Gospel with someone can and should be done in love just as Jesus did during His ministry. Remember, God Himself gave us His Son Jesus, because He LOVED us (John 3:16), and wanted us all to be delivered from ALL sin. Tesimonies of ex-homosexual people are here on YT, some in my Friends list.
@awatson945 There's nothing to argue about, I've made my replies, you've drawn your own conclusions, and much of what you've replied to me isn't worth glib. Gay fascist smearing is a non-sequitur to me. I don't even understand why you bother uploading this interview because you clearly don't accept Scripture and the things thereof.
@PastorDowell As if there was a "most high" you would know its mind. Only religion can make people like you judge your friends and neighbors and to pretend to know what god thinks. You don't know. There is no proof of the Bible outside of the Bible and if you use the Bible to prove the Bible you are using circular logic.
@awatson945 Thats right and guess what then that means you need to stop judging me then. Just shut up. Your mad becasue you homo's are some nasty people. Just plain nasty! The Bible is right, and your wrong. And yes I do judge, and I do not care if you judge me. I would condemn her alot harder than that so-called pastor. I would use the Scriptures and quote them all over the place. I have the right and she is a nasty homo that need to repent. Just like the fornicator needs to repent! Just nasty!
@PastorDowell The Bible is silly nonsense full of justification for slavery, misogyny, infanticide, murder, rape, genocide, etc. It was primarily written by nomads and contains little of anything moral. But it's a great source for small people to justify their bigotry.
@MandolinforJesus "When Christ calls a man, He bids him come and die" or something like that from Dietrich Boenhoffer. Sometimes we don't see how very much our pride gets in the way. Rather than say we're sinning against God, we want to make up our own idea of the Lord and MAKE IT SO THAT GOD IS APPROVING in this case a homosexual lifestyle. Yes God loves us but as a Christian there needs to be repentance. He loves us like a father, and as a good father, He knows how we think.
@MandolinforJesus If there is a god and that god punishes people because they love someone of the same sex then that god is a monster. It's refreshing that I can use my brain and realize that it couldn't be true. That logic hold that a being can't be just, merciful and cruel at the same time. A perfect being would have to be able to make laws that are logical and rational. I doubt there is such a monstrous god but if there is I could not accept salvation.
@MandolinforJesus What I don't get is why others can't see something so plainly simple. Why would they worship a being more barbaric than Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao all together. I guess it's true that the power of faith will cause people to believe anything absurd.
@MandolinforJesus You are clinging to an iron age superstition. There's no evidence that it is true. On the contrary, the Bible is full of obscene and vulgar messages. Killing and torturing children. Those who believe in such immorality are by extension immoral. You can't be of the Bible and separate from the genocide, murder, infanticide, filicide, incest, etc., etc..
@MandolinforJesus The Bible's message is both contradictory and replete in it's prescription to kill, kill, kill. Over and over the Bible treats outsiders without mercy and without consideration. It so easily justifies inhumanity. It's sad that it was ever written. What's sadder still is that people can't see what is plainly written. Kill the amalikites. Kill women. Kill children. Torture. Rape. Even the innocent. None are spared. We need desperately to grow up and let go of superstition.
Jennifer, it's all about you, right? Let what's right be ignored because you want something, even though you know it wrecks what you sang you stood for. Man, you are one selfish woman!
@majajh That's rather arrogant. Your sexual preference is in line with your indoctrinated beliefs. So you want to push your dogmatic beliefs founded on thousands of years of edits of edits of interpretations of interpretations. What kind of chutzpa is it to think that you really know that god gives a damn what people do with their genitalia? If there is a god that created hundreds of billions of galaxies then I can't imagine anything more petty for him to care about.
Jennifer, the Bible says you are outside and under condemnation for choosing to remain in sin. In short, you are an apostate. I'm deleting every album I have of yours on my iPod.
@majajh majajh you are relying on the edits of edits of interpretations of interpretations of oral traditions. The Bible is full of nonsense including the killing of children, the condoning of slavery and other attrocity. To be so adamant that you know the mind of god based on something that has gone through so many translations and edits is just dishonest. You don't.
Jennifer Knapp essentially says, "Yeah, I'm sinning, so what? I want to sin, and I'm not sorry about it." I sin, and I regret it when I do. That's not saying I am better, but I'm not throwing up sorry excuses.
@majajh Yeah, maybe the Hindu's are right or maybe the Muslims are right. Maybe god wants people who will think for themselves and not brain dead robots chained to dogma. There are thousands of sects and you think you've found the right dogma. If there is a "truth" that you must find then statistically you can rest assured that you are going straight to hell.
@awatson945 Tired, worn out, ridiculous arguments, and very common to what I said before I was regenerated by Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. What can't be explained and only experienced is the role of the Holy Spirit. (continued...)
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Cor.2:14-16.
@musclecasper A.) Rhetoric. B.) I made arguments and they are good ones. C.) You have no argument. D.) Hindu's know they are right from the power of their spirits. Mormon's know they are right from the power of Joseph Smith. Scientologists, JW's, Muslims, etc.. E.) You beg the question (your conclusion assumes the premise.
@awatson945 This is why it is useless in arguing this. Faith issues can't always be proven that is why they are issues of faith. However, what separates Christ from Hindus, Mormons, Scientology, JW, and Muslims is the doctrine of Grace. All the "faiths" that are mentioned are worked based and you have to prove your worth to God. Only Jesus is Grace based and our obedience to Him is not out of obligation but an expression of love. Jesus said, "if you love me obey my commands." John 14:15
@musclecasper Translated: Christianity is special and is exempt from critical thinking, logic and reason. Nonsense. That's special pleading and it's a fallacy. Now you are begging the question. Your premise assumes your conclusion. There is nothing axiomatic about "grace". It's a human construct. It's a fairytale. Magical thinking.
@musclecasper I don't mind debating with theists but it's rather disapointing when you attack my arguments WITHOUT a shred of addressing them and then engaging in fallacy.
You can do better my friend. There are some great theist websites out there that will teach you how to argue and avoid making such silly mistakes.
You Tubers, listen carefully to this video. What a poor and sorry person Bob is. So much to say. He is not capable of leading, speaking on the subject or talking to one in a manner of love. Definitely a sorry representative of Christ and the Church. Just a plain miserable example of a follower of Christ. Overall, Bob does have alot to learn. What a disappointment Bro. All you did was get in the way. But thankful to God the Spirit speaks to all people who seek His truth.
You Tubers, listen carefully to this video. What a poor and sorry person Bob is. So much to say. He is not capable of leading, speaking on the subject or talking to one in a manner of love. Definitely a sorry representative of Christ and the Church. Just a plain miserable example of a follower of Christ. Overall, Bob does have alot to learn. What a disappointment Bro. All you did was get in the way. But thankful to God the Spirit speaks to all people who seek His truth.
In 1 Cor. It is quite clear were Homosexuals go. And the cheating and anger is all sin as well and all sin would cause you to Go to Hell. Continueing in sin and it going UNremented or continueing on with it will cause you to go to hell.
@Ryanyz80 Yes, the Bible is clear about lots of stuff. Not killing witches. Kill babies. God killed babies in the flood. God killed babies in Egypt. God has a hard on for killing babies. THAT'S clear. The 10 commandments is clear (depending on which version in the Bible you choose). Kill people who work on the sabbath. The arrogance of Christians who think they know the mind of god astounds me. Here's a hint you don't really. (cont).
@awatson945 You don't even know if there is a god. You have faith. Just because you are confident that you understand everything in the Bible and that you know the mind of god DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. There is no consensus among theological experts. The Bible is so full of nonsense and contradiction that it's impossible to use as an absolute source for god's mind. And no one knows that it is the word of god at all. It's not persuasive to a non Christian. On the contrary, it's silly.
@awatson945 ok cool im glad that you can see these things in wich God did these things. Now lets look at the reasions all of these things happened.. o yea that is a result of what SIN. and when christ died on th cross he defeted sin not for us to continue in sin but to have victory over sin by what?, dieing to our selves
@Ryanyz80 Are you responding to me? I don't see a god. There is no evidence for a god. "Sin"? It's a sin to kill babies. Why does the Bible say that god killed babies? It makes no sense. I can understand if the Bible is the fertile imagination of Iron Age nomads. see, THAT makes sense. Back then they thought it was okay to kill babies under certain circumstances. Now it's not okay.
@awatson945 ok so if you dont beleve in God then you dont understand what jenefer knapp has done in a sinfull act. my first point. Second What are you talking about spicificly when you talk about God killing babies?
@Ryanyz80 I studied theology and served a 2 year full time mission before becoming an atheist. I understand the premise of sin. It's far more complex than your cherry picked notion. Babies? Flood. First born of Egypt. See, that's what people did back then. They killed babies. So they had no reason to re-think their mythology and come up with a better story. One where god isn't a monster.
"Blessed are they that dasheth thy little ones against the rocks". --Psalm 137:9
@awatson945 Ok, So First with the quote that you have taken from psalms, Why have you left out the context of the first 8 vs. Second it says Happy shall he be, that takes and dashes the little ones aginst the stones. Happy shall he be. It is talking about the Jews being in captivity and what the babylon people were doing to them. The first born of egypt, Are you referring to the 10th plague that god put on they people of egypt because pharaoh who had multiple chances to let them go and didn't?
@awatson945 No problem, Every one there had a choice that night, Because What Saved the 1st born children was the lambs blood on the door, The Disobedience to God Is what caused the death of the children. They had a choice. So yes. There were all ways choices even from the beginning. Man Chose "Sin," through parents disobedience children do have to suffer as well as adults.
@Ryanyz80 How did the children have a choice? Infants?
By your logic it would be okay to kill the children of serial killers, right? I think you know better. Killing children is NEVER okay. If there is a god that kills children then he is a monster. No amount of justification or rationalization will change that. I'm certain that the bible is a book of legends and fairytales and that no such being exists. I'm greatfull for that.
@awatson945, understanding the fact that you do not believe in God, though you think you know stuff about Godly stuff because you went to theology school for 2 years, you have become what the bible says "for ever learning but never coming to a understanding of the truth." but try to remember this fact. God created, he has the right to take away. Fact, Every one dies, Not every one knows when some one will die. For God to take lives is not wrong. What maters is how you chose to live yours.
Yes it is. What makes god exempt from morality? Is morality arbitrary? Is there any act god can't perform in your mind that would void his moral authority or is god indistinguishable from the devil? Your description of him makes him a capricous and malevolent monster. You like this charachter just because you think he favors you. My morality prevents me from worshiping such a monster BECAUSE I am moral.
@awatson945, My question for you, You say "I am moral" what are you moral to, or what sets this standard for you. second you all ready know my opinion of differences of God from Satan.
So to answer your question. " what makes me thing i have the truth, well you went to missions as well, so you may expect this answer, But the Change That christ Directly had in my life, Changing me, My heart from were i was to were I am, A "worldly person" to a follower of Christ. to sum it up, (cont)
@Ryanyz80 No mater, what i originally turned to could not of saved me from were i was. I know Christ exists because same as the wind, I see the affects of what christ did in my life as well as others. (Simple example.) And yes Everything dose fall in to the balance of a higher power to determine right from wrong. He is Righteous.
@Ryanyz80 >>"That christ Directly had in my life..."
A personal appeal. God changing peoples life is how Mormons know Joseph Smith is a prophet of god. It is how Muslims know Mohammad was god's prophet and it is how they both know that you are deluded. You don't belive them for the sam reason I don't belive you.
>>"He is Righteous."
If genocide, infanticide, xenophobia, slavery, misogyny are righteous. Sure. Keep it. I don't want any part of such a monster.
@Ryanyz80 Stop using the Bible as some literal instruction guide handed down from god. Otherwise you will have to perform mental gymnastics to chuck the bad stuff and keep the stuff that fits your personal view of the world.
@Ryanyz80 You could conveniently say that Jesus changed things but it doesn't answer the question why god would be such a murderous thug in the OT. How did god as a different version of himself (Jesus) change himself to not kill anymore? What do you mean "defeated sin"? How does god defeat his own punishment for sin? Why did god have himself killed to defeat his own punishment? Why didn't god just forgive people?
@Ryanyz80 If you say, god had no choice then you are just asserting something to solve a problem you can't solve. Why did god have no other choice? Again, the oral traditions and legends of Iron Age people makes far more sense.
@Ryanyz80 - That depends which bible translation you're reading in regards to 1 Corinthians. Not every bible translates it as homosexual, which is a red flag in regards to tranlastions.
@JimmieLeeLyrics ok well looking at that i under stand that but every version has the first chapter of romans in it talkign a bout doing what is shamefull with another. and i think that the only translation that dosent have it i could be mistaken is NIV wich also leaves out a number of other verses
@Ryanyz80 - It's quite easy and understandable to associate homosexuality with a word like shameful. However, what I believe Paul is expressing is sexual acts (not having to do with loving relationship, by the way) that were done in contexts of idolatry, which is why the topic of idols/images are mentioned in the letter to the Romans in chapter 1.
rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:29
@JimmieLeeLyrics Now if it were just the fact of lust the same as man with woman or woman with man it would of been writen like it has benn in other passages of the bible. this is talking directly of Man and Man and Woman and Woman same sex engaments. P.s The only virsion that i could find with out homoxexuality written in 1cor is acctualy the message bible, and the message bible is not a literal translation of the bible a word for word to speak, read the preface of that version.
@JimmieLeeLyrics I may of miss understood what you were saying. my point was that in other places in the bible it is very clear that sex outside of marriage is wrong normally implying man and woman, Romans ch1 is very clear about committing unnatural acts with a man and a man or woman and a woman. is that any clearer?
@Ryanyz80 - Two people of the same gender can be married. As far as the terms "natural" and "nature" go, they should be defined according to the Greek language. That which is natural for you may not be natural to another person.
"why is homosexuality treated differently in regards to other sins?"
--God destroyed 2 cities simply because of homosexuality. hmmm.....
i don't recall him flat out destroying a town of liars. you cannot deny that the complete destruction of homosexuals by God Himself isn't something to be treated as harsher by society. all sins are equally wrong, but that knapp lady is just trying to justify her sin.
@oopzUsuck I suggest you read your Bible a little closer. The Bible does not say that S&G were destroyed because of homosexuality. It DOES list a number of other reasons including idolotry. The only reference to homsexuality is the story of the men wanting to have sex with the angels.
@oopzUsuck - Yes, you should re-read the story. It says everyone in the city surrounded Lot's house. Everyone from young to old. Every person from every part of the city. You assume this was an all homosexual city. Not likely. "Men of the city" means people of the city, not all males of the city.
It is pointless to urgue, if you do not believe Bible or God, but it does not mean you should interpret the Bible the way you want. This is alive book, and as more you read as more you find something new and revealing. Jesus is love, is life, is truth, is healing, is freedom... These list can be continued, although, you can not understand it until you will meet Him personaly and will want to understand the scripture with your heart.
Christ must be received by faith, not religion and its useless traditions. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God and responding to it through humility and a sense of one's sin before God's holiness. One calls out to Christ, not religion or theology, and asks God for His mercy and forgiveness. But sin must be recognized first and a desire to turn from it completely must be in the heart. Without admitting sin, without repentance, there is no place for the grace of God. And sin remains.
@trfilmwrks You are not god's spokes person. God told you not to judge. Get the beam out of your eye and stop worrying about other people. If God is the smartest being in the universe then he doesn't need you to go around being his judge and jury. Worry about yourself. Love your neighbor.
@awatson945 The Bible tells believers to speak the truth to someone lost in sin. To snatch them from fire. He warns against hypocritical judging. Nowhere did I, or the pastor in this interview, use condemnation in speaking the truth to Jennifer. You hate the truth and it offends you, which it should seeing how Christ said it would to those opposed to it. Loving someone also includes warning them of error that will destroy them eternally. Agreeing with them is not love, it's a lie.
@trfilmwrks I see no humility in you. I see self righteousness and a judgemental nature. God commanded you to remove the beam from your own eye and not to judge others. Why is god's word so hard for you to understand? Love your neighbor. That is the second great law. Worry about yourself. God is the most powerful being in the universe. He doesn't need your self righteousness. He needs you compassion and empathy.
@awatson945 So, you are judging me for preaching the pure gospel that Christ has told all of His believers to preach? In terms of improper judging, of which you accuse me, we are told to judge the fruit. And the irony is lost on you, that you quote the Bible which you mock, and take a verse out of context while doing so. We are to judge all things, whether they be true and you can find that in the book of Acts. I'm not going to argue with you, others have and you continue in unbelief.
@trfilmwrks You don't speak for God. You don't know God's mind. If you had been born in Saudi Arabia you would have been Muslim. India you would have been Hindu or Sikh.
@awatson945 To agree with someone in gross error offends God and perpetuates the deception that a person is caught up in. It is compromise not love. There is One Way, One Truth and One Life. Christianity is a narrow path. I pray that Jennifer and others caught in this deception will be freed by the God who loves them but is separated from them because they call sin, love. I pray for you that you will accept the Cross of Christ and repent of unbelief and be healed. Grace to you.
@trfilmwrks You cannot know God's mind. There is nothing outside of the Bible that demonstrates that the Bible is true. Jesus said not to pray in public so you will be seen of men. Announcing that you will pray is the same thing. Stop being such a hypochrite and pray in secret. Don't take the Bible as absolute truth. Love other people and don't judge.
@trfilmwrks - I don't think Jesus is concerned about people receiving him in the tradtional "ask Jesus into your heart", which, by the way, I don't think is in the bible, but taught to you instead. Jesus, I believe, asks that we live as he said we should and in that sense, you are following Jesus. You don't have to be a Christian to love thy neighbor as self. That is the Law Of Christ: love thy neighbor as self. When done, you are loving God at the same time.
@JimmieLeeLyrics Jesus is extremely concerned that all people should come to understand and accept and rejoice that He is the Way the Truth and the Life. Why? Because doing good works does not save anyone or absolve them from sin debt owed to God. Christ died to remove our sin as we believe in His finished work on the Cross. Good works flow from that. Christ first, works next and never the other way around.
@trfilmwrks - I disagree. That's just what you've had drilled into you. I say, Jesus wants us to live according to the example he gave us because it's the way, it's the truth, and it's what leads to life. I don't recall Jesus in the bible ever asking someone to ask him into their hearts.
@JimmieLeeLyrics It's what the Bible says in black and white, Your argument is with the Bible. So frankly, what you say matters very little. It is what the Bible says clearly. The most sober verses in the Bible are spoken by Jesus to those who come to Him and point to their good works.....He says depart from Me, I never knew you.
He wants us to live and love others but without Christ as Savior and Lord established by faith in heart, soul and mind, works are like filthy rags before Him.
@trfilmwrks - Again, Jesus' law is not based on works and his law is the one and only, love thy neighbor as thyself. That's all. And, again, when you love your neighbor, you are loving God. I'm coming from the bible just like you are.
@JimmieLeeLyrics All I am trying to make clear is this....you can surrender your body to the flames for the weak and suffering, you could give your everything to everyone but apart from Christ as Lord and Savior and accepting Him and His Words as He presents Himself a person has no salvation.
To point to loving your neighbor as justification is to point to something apart from Christ's Cross for salvation and it means nothing. What exactly are you saying?
@trfilmwrks - I never said it's the works that save. Jesus' law is the one and only, love thy neighbor as self. That is it and it's not based on works. The bible distinguishes between between works (Mose's law) and the law that has nothing to do with works (Jesus' law).
@JimmieLeeLyrics I agree. But loving your neighbor is not about physical intimacy it is about selfless care and kindness as Christ taught with the good Samaritan.
@trfilmwrks - What makes you think I'm talking about physical intimacy? I am talking about equity towards others, compassion, and the like. If you agree that loving your neighbor means you are loving God then why do you say loving God is first and loving neighbor is second when they are equal?
@JimmieLeeLyrics Sorry. Ok I accept that definition of love. What you seem to be saying is that loving your neighbor fulfills the Law...and I agree....but that does not supercede or replace the fact that a person must accept the Cross of Christ for Salvation. Without the sacrifice of Christ covering a person's sins, that person is actually an enemy of God and His wrath remains on him. That's what I meant by Christ first then works of love. Good works do not justify a person before God.
@trfilmwrks - At least we're getting somewhere (smile). So, you agree that loving your neighbor is the fulfillment of the law. If this is the fulfillment of the law, there is nothing else to be done by the one who loves his/her neighbor as self. If something is fulfilled, there's nothing else to fulfill. It is done. It's quite simple.
@JimmieLeeLyrics Not really that simple. If a person points solely to good works as to justify himself that he is fulfilling the law, he is in great error. Only Christ fulfilled the Laws of God perfectly and our perfection is found in Him alone. He is our only substitute. He did what we can never do. No amount of love can replace the sacrifice Jesus made at Calvary. If you are suggesting that your love substitutes Christ Cross, you are mistaken.
@trfilmwrks - For some reason, you keep pointing out that works don't justify somone when I have repeatedly told you that Jesus' laws is not based on works. Works would refer to the OT law of Moses. The law I keep telling you about is Jesus' law and it is NOT based on works. Why do you keep bringing up works as if I were bringing up works? Is it becasue you believe loving thy neighbor is works?
@JimmieLeeLyrics Do not confuse or equate loving your neighbor as a substitution for putting your entire faith in Jesus Christ's finished work at Calvary.
He who has the Son has life, He who does not have the Son does not have life.
Perfect love is this: To believe on the One whom God has sent. People try to get around the Cross in many ways...there is only one way to the Father, Jesus Christ.
@trfilmwrks - You're close, but not there yet. That's okay. Don't you see that when you love your neighbor as yourself, you ARE putting your faith in Jesus? You have another definition of 'putting your faith in Jesus'. The one that you were taught from the first time you were told by someone. However, Jesus, as I am learning, did not say to belive in him as we've been taught. But to believe in his way, his truth, his light, which is to live a certain way and that is what saves you.
@JimmieLeeLyrics No I do not see that at all. Why? Because their are many people who love their neighbors and they absolutely despise the Name of Christ, the Cross of Christ, the reason for Christ. They mock the Bible, hate it's message of redemption, refuse to acknowledge the Cross as payment for sins point continually to the fact that they love other people. God accepts one way to Him and that way is through faith in His Son and not through a doctrine of love taught that avoids the Cross.
@trfilmwrks - The doers of the law are justified before God. They may not have accepted Jesus into their hearts, as modern day Christianity seems to believe should be done, but they are a law unto themselves because they instinctively do that which is the law: love thy neighbor as self. For it is more important that you show love than it is to say who you love.
@trfilmwrks (continued) - If Jesus said that loving thy neghbor as self is equal to loving God and a person lives loving their neighbor as self, they are trusting Jesus. They have placed faith in him and what he said. If someone loves their neighbor as self, but they are not aware that Jesus said this is the law or they do not believe Jesus said this yet it is how they live, they are still justified. Ignorant that they are justified (becasue they do not believe it), but justified nonetheless.
@JimmieLeeLyrics No one can please God by the Law, or by keeping the Law. No one. The entire Bible is about the redemption of man through the work of Christ. From Genesis to Revelation...Christ. Not man's efforts, no matter how noble or loving. Or Jesus Christ was sent in vain, died in vain and men's effort of loving acts was all that was necessary to restore them. Sad to say but the love you profess is only pride that refuses to acknowledge Christ's death for your sin.
@trfilmwrks - Actually, the bible says the doers of the law will be justified. You are apparently thinking of works still. Whereas, the law of which I speak, as I've said before, has nothing to do with works. There is more than one law. One has to do with works. The other does not.
@JimmieLeeLyrics You're creating your own gospel and denying and avoiding the Cross of Christ. He was sent as payment for your sins. Sins that you cannot absolve by anything except through faith and faith alone through His sacrifice. Any love you can do will never cleanse you from your sins. By loving to please God, you are making love a "work". Your love to please God and be accepted by Him is nothing more than defiance that says, God, I am accepted by You because I love. It's only pride.
@trfilmwrks - If a person is considered just before God, what does that mean, trfilmworks? What does it mean to be just or justified before God? Romans 2:13 tells us that the doers of the law will be just before God. Again, there are two laws and your mind is only stuck on one of the two. Christ's law is not considered works. Only Moses' law is considered works.
@trfilmwrks - You still have not commented on Romans 2:13 & 14. To put faith in Christ is to believe that he said loving neighbor is the same as loving God and if you do this, you are saved. There's more than one kind of saving going on here. Just like there is more than one law spoken of in the bible. You are not seeing this. I cannot explain in a limited Youtube comment.
@trfilmwrks - And I am not creating my own gospel. What I've said is from the bible. You just don't see it that way. When you want to hear the full story instead of bits and pieces (because that's all I can type here on this limited comment page, I will gladly explain in more detail what I am trying to get you to see, whether you agree with it or not. I cannot do it on a word limited comment page.
Respond to this video... You are called to love but that is only pleasing to God after you put your trust in Christ. Not the other way around. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. Love Christ first and then your love is acceptable. You need to have faith in Christ's blood alone. That is what the entire Bible speaks of from Genesis to Revelation....Blood offered to cleanse sins. Christ Christ Christ. Justification requires blood, death, sacrifice. Jesus Christ at Calvary!
@trfilmwrks - I disagree that you have to put your faith in Christ first in order for your love for others to please God. Love itself pleases God for, as the bible says, God is love. So simply by loving, you are manifesting God. It is no wonder that Jesus equated loving neighbor with loving God because God is love and love covers a multitude of sins. It also say, owe no man NOTHING BUT to love one another.
@JimmieLeeLyrics You're creating a gospel of your own making. One that says, "All you need is love". I'm presenting an argument that has the whole of scripture from Genesis to Revelation to back it up. The completion of the Bible is the Cross of Christ. The entire story from Genesis to Revelation is the Cross of Christ and the pathetic, however noble, attempts of man to absolve himself of sin as he avoids the Cross. You're presenting your own way of redemption to avoid the grace of God.
@trfilmwrks - Jesus' death was not in vain because Jesus lived and taught how we should love one another. He is the one who said that loving thy neighbor is equal to loving God. That's why if you feed a stranger, you are feeding God. What law do you think Romans 2:13, 14 is talking about? Those who do this law are justified.
@JimmieLeeLyrics It was in vain for you because if all you need to do is love your neighbor...He suffered brutally on a Cross for nothing that you can do without Him.
The law was completely abolished by Christ's death and resurrection as you put your faith in Him. Without faith it is impossible to please God. The verse above is only valid once you put your faith in Christ's cleansing, atoning blood. Otherwise you are accountable for the whole Law.
@trfilmwrks - What makes you think I'm talking about physical intimacy? I am talking about equity towards others, compassion, and the like. If you agree that loving your neighbor means you are loving God then why do you say loving God is first and loving neighbor is second? It makes no sense to say loving God is first and loving neighbor is second if you agree that when you do one, you are doing the other equally.
She is sadly mistaken. Or, she is proudly disregarding. Maybe she is loophole searching? She is scripture twisting. Verse dodging? She is calling herself a quarterback and showing up to play at an ice rink with a polo pony and a lacrosse stick. The devil's job is to confuse, twist, contort unscriptural minds with feelings and a crowd of equally confused people rewriting the Bible and creating a "church" for people like her to attend. Confess sin, repent and seek Christ for grace.
@trfilmwrks what makes Christians so judgemental? Assuming that there is a god what makes you think that you know his mind? The Bible? A collection of oral legends and traditions written down between 2-3,000 years ago. Look, faith is fine but confidence that only your view is right is rather arrogant.
@awatson945 If someone came up to you on a street and proclaimed, without even a blink, that 2 and 2 was 3 you would tell that person....hey, sorry but you are wrong. 2 and 2 is 4 and will always be 4 and always has been 4. They then reply ,but I learn from teachers who tell me otherwise. What would you do with that response? Is it judgment to insist they are wrong? How is it benefitting that person to agree? Is it hating on someone to tell them they are wrong when they are? Read the Bible
@trfilmwrks Math is deductively true. It can be proven. Your view of the Bible isn't. There is no objective truth in it. Your reason is at best circular. If you want to believe it then that is your prerogative but don't compare math to faith. There is simply no comparison. And don't tell me to read the Bible. I studied theology and served a full time two year mission. I've also studied philosophy and formal logic and I would not make the kind of error you just did.
@awatson945 You must be born again. Know that quote? Christ spoke it to a studied man of RELIGION. Until you are BORN AGAIN the Bible is a cold and dead book to you, and to others as well. Without a personal encounter with Christ you are blind to the purpose of the scriptures. Christianity is NOT about RELIGION. It is about relationship with the Living God through Jesus Christ. Religion, theology, philosophy are blindfolds to the truth of the gospel.
@trfilmwrks - Actually, true religion is loving thy neighbor as self. Caring for the sick, the poor, feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing those in need of clothes, etc. Not just Christians do this. Jesus did not create Christianity. Man did. Anyone who loves is of God and God is in them. When you love your neighbor as self, you are loving God at the same time.
@JimmieLeeLyrics The single most important question in the Bible is asked by Jesus to His disciples....Who do you say that I am? That question has only one answer that brings eternal life; Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. If one does not have Christ, accepted as He reveals Himself in the Bible, no amount of good or loving works can ever fill the void before God. Works cannot save or justify a person before God because only faith in the atoning work of Christ counts.
@trfilmwrks - Asking the disciples who they thought he was does not say, "You must ask me into your heart or else you will not be saved!" And, no, works do not save. Jesus' law is not based on works. That was Moses' law. Jesus' law is simple: Love thy neighbor as thyself. When you love your neighbor, you are viewed as loving God. That's definitely in the bible.
@trfilmwrks - Asking the disciples who they thought he was does not say, "You must ask me into your heart or else you will not be saved!" And, no, works do not save. Jesus' law is not based on works. That was Moses' law. Jesus' law is simple: Love thy neighbor as thyself. When you love your neighbor, you are viewed as loving God.
@trfilmwrks The Bible contains instructions to murder people. It contains cruel and unusual punishment. It contains evident falsehoods. No one can walk on water or turn water into wine. Prayer can't heal amputees. Belief is one thing. Telling everyone that your belief is the only right way is presumptious. Perhaps you should take the beam out of your eye.
@awatson945 I am responding to you because you're blanket criticism of the Bible is what is kicked around by people who have never studied the Bible and get sucked in by sound bytes, misquotes, a lazy lack of investigation and cultural oblivion. The Bible can be ripped apart by ignorance and confusion, through prejudice to make it read however one wants. If you knew Christ personally you would understand that it is a book about love and grace and the eternal mercy of God on people who hate Him.
@trfilmwrks You engaging in the fallacy of special pleading and ad hominem. If you have a specific argument I would happily respond. As it is you've not said anything.
@awatson945 Jennifer represents a person who calls herself a Christian but has departed from the Word of God. That word forbids homosexuality. To call yourself a Christian yet engage in what is outside of Christianity and be proud of it is absurd.. It's one thing to struggle with homosexuality, it is another thing to delude yourself that you are pleasing God is a lifestyle that scripture declares God abhors. Her error continues through false teachers. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 and 2 Timothy 4: 3-4
@JimmieLeeLyrics There are a lot of people I respect that I do not agree with. People who make vague accusations are not among them. What are you talking about?
@trfilmwrks - You got it right, trfilmwrks. God will save (and has saved) everyone already. "He's" just waiting for us to catch up to what "He" already knows.
@JimmieLeeLyrics And you know the mind of god how? Oh wait, let me guess, circular reasoning right? See, if I write a book that declares something as truth all I have to do is write in the book that it's god's truth and viola, it's truth. And here is the kicker, the older the book and the more popular the book is the more true it is.
I never understood how you can be a Christian and a proud gay person, even when I was an atheist, I never understood that. The bible says its a sin. Lying, stealing and looking at people with lust are sins too. You cant steal, lie and lust, try not to stop and not ask for forgivness AND STILL THINK YOURE GOING TO HEAVEN. A proud gay person doesnt try to stop being gay and they dont ask for forgivness but still think theyre going to heaven. Its not a difference between sin but the person sinning
babipassion25 4 months ago
@babipassion25 Since people pick and choose what they follow then it's easy as a Christian or an atheist. Christians don't get up in arms about working on Sunday, eating shellfish or wearing mixed fabrics so this is just one more thing for them to choose from. Thing is people want to keep some reason to hate other people (of course with the plausible deniability of hate the sin love the sinner BS).
awatson945 3 months ago
SHES GOING TO HELL AND THAT WIMPY CHRISTIAN SHOULD OF TOLD HER ON TV!!!!!! Romans 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves.
Soul7Patrol 4 months ago
@Soul7Patrol Such a nice god you have there. Torturing people who love other people. If it were even possible that such a monster could exist I would spend my life cursing it. Thank goodness it isn't true.
awatson945 4 months ago
@awatson945 You lack understanding, and maybe you should do your homework.GOD gives everyone a free-will choice on how they wanna live, so if they wanna live a sinful life then its not GOD fault you end up in hell but yourself to blame!...This women here is deceived and thats where shes heading.
Soul7Patrol 4 months ago
He's not trying to justify sin. Jennifer, wants to justify her sin, despite what the Bible says. No sin is greater than another... We're well aware of that Jen, it's a different story when you try to justify your sin in a Biblical sense. Are your "spiritual leaders" reading from the same text?
Hiprocksoul1 1 year ago
@Hiprocksoul1 What sin? Being a lesbian isn't a sin. A.) There is no proof of god. B.) There is no proof that god wrote the bible. C.) The bible is inconsistent. D.) You can't prove the validity of the bible by using the bible.That's called circular reasoning.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945
Completely agree with you - live and let live - take care buddy.
bagospannerz 1 year ago
@awatson945 hey there - that's cool mate - no reason Christians and athiests or people of other religions can't get along. That goes for gays as well. Please don't get disheartened by hateful Christians - we not all like that. Peace
bagospannerz 1 year ago
@bagospannerz Hey, I'm hard on religion but in fact most of the people I know and love are Christian. I can respect religion so long as it's not used to deny people rights. Thank you. :) Peace.
awatson945 1 year ago
All this talk of who is going to hell is unbiblical - the bible tells us not to ask who will ascend - that is to bring Christ down and not to ask who will go into the deep. We are not to tell anyone they are going to hell - we are to spread the gospel and let the holy spirit do it's work. God bless all.
bagospannerz 1 year ago
@bagospannerz I don't believe in the bible but I can live with this.
awatson945 1 year ago
So yes she will go to hell becasue she is living a lie! This is why i tell people to get out of Christianity, becasue it represents myths and lies. Look as this passive preacher? Afraid to tell someone the straight truth becasue he calls himslef speaking in love. I am an Israelite and as a Pastor i am sure they will not have me on TV in front of a homo answering these questions. Because I will not be mixing words or playing games. ALL HOMOSEXUALS will go to hell as the WORD SAYS!
PastorDowell 1 year ago
@PastorDowell Do you have any evidence that this "word" is anything other than the beliefs of Iron age people who thought it was an abomination to eat shellfish or wear clothing of different materials? These people thought it okay to commit genocide. Why do you think it is the word of god?
awatson945 1 year ago
I can see why Jennifer Knapp is reprobate with her lesbian lifestyle, she wants "Christianity on her terms", bringing up issues irrelevant to what's being addressed which is her homosexual lifestyle, asking why Botsford "isn't in her seat", all in an attempt to deflect. Bob Botsford, contrary what King is saying, is not judging her or anyone. He is sharing the truth with compassion in telling Knapp her lesbian lifestyle is sin, no way around it.
Tsuruta1 1 year ago 2
@Tsuruta1 Loving another person doesn't make one a reprobate. BTW: Most people in favor of slavery didn't hate black people. They loved them and just wanted what was best for them. They didn't judge black people they just new what was best for them. Kinda like you know what's best for gays and lesbians based on the writings of people who thought it was okay to kill children and eating shellfish was a sin. Great source for morality.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 Typical gay fascist sophism, comparing the struggle of Black Americans to gay agendas, which for me is laughable, (I'm Black American), pulling Scripture out of context having no intent of real discernment of it's meaning, and calling opposition to people who are living homosexual lifestyles "hatred". Hardly worth the glib.
Tsuruta1 1 year ago
@Tsuruta1 They've done nothing to you and you want to judge them as reprobate. The shoe fits I'm afraid. Being black doesn't give you a magical gift to see into the heart of gays and lesbians and there is no basis outside of an ancient book that what they do is wrong. That makes you a bigot. And that's NOT sophistry.
awatson945 1 year ago
@Tsuruta1
well said, I agree. :)
eternalthruchrist1 1 year ago
@eternalthruchrist1 Thank you. :)
Tsuruta1 1 year ago
No doubt this is the spirit of anti-christ.
PastorDowell 1 year ago
@PastorDowell No doubt that ancient superstitions are the cause of so much bigotry and hatred.
awatson945 1 year ago
@PastorDowell I'm not the most avid listener of gospel music, but now I know not to purchase any recordings of hers. She's a reprobate, and I say that with compassion.
Tsuruta1 1 year ago
@Tsuruta1 Like racists call black people epithets, with compassion. Nice, real nice. The human mind is so good at justifying bigotry. "Go ahead and hate your neighbor. Go ahead and cheat a friend. Do it in the name of heaven, you can justify it in the end." --One Tin Soldier.
awatson945 1 year ago
@Tsuruta1 Your right, I would not advise any real true believers to listen to or follow anyone who's character does not line up with the nature of the Most High. This woman as well as people are closet devils! I will judge this, She is going to Hell, and this pastor is not a pastor. Condmenation is that light has come into this World, Jesus! And becasue he tells us what is darkness and what is light, the people who are in darkness experience condemnation. Why becasue they are sinning.
PastorDowell 1 year ago
@PastorDowell Well I agree that unless Knapp is delivered from homosexuality, she will face horrible consequences at the Great White Throne Judgement, but I agree with Pastor Bosford. Sharing the Gospel with someone can and should be done in love just as Jesus did during His ministry. Remember, God Himself gave us His Son Jesus, because He LOVED us (John 3:16), and wanted us all to be delivered from ALL sin. Tesimonies of ex-homosexual people are here on YT, some in my Friends list.
Tsuruta1 1 year ago
@Tsuruta1 Claiming to love someone is a great way to justify hate. You do it well.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 As I said before, typical gay fascist sophistic views. You do it well. :)
Tsuruta1 1 year ago
@Tsuruta1 You are just gainsaying. You've made no argument. You are just acting like a child.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 There's nothing to argue about, I've made my replies, you've drawn your own conclusions, and much of what you've replied to me isn't worth glib. Gay fascist smearing is a non-sequitur to me. I don't even understand why you bother uploading this interview because you clearly don't accept Scripture and the things thereof.
Tsuruta1 1 year ago
@PastorDowell As if there was a "most high" you would know its mind. Only religion can make people like you judge your friends and neighbors and to pretend to know what god thinks. You don't know. There is no proof of the Bible outside of the Bible and if you use the Bible to prove the Bible you are using circular logic.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 Thats right and guess what then that means you need to stop judging me then. Just shut up. Your mad becasue you homo's are some nasty people. Just plain nasty! The Bible is right, and your wrong. And yes I do judge, and I do not care if you judge me. I would condemn her alot harder than that so-called pastor. I would use the Scriptures and quote them all over the place. I have the right and she is a nasty homo that need to repent. Just like the fornicator needs to repent! Just nasty!
PastorDowell 1 year ago
@PastorDowell The Bible is silly nonsense full of justification for slavery, misogyny, infanticide, murder, rape, genocide, etc. It was primarily written by nomads and contains little of anything moral. But it's a great source for small people to justify their bigotry.
awatson945 1 year ago
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MandolinforJesus 1 year ago
@MandolinforJesus "When Christ calls a man, He bids him come and die" or something like that from Dietrich Boenhoffer. Sometimes we don't see how very much our pride gets in the way. Rather than say we're sinning against God, we want to make up our own idea of the Lord and MAKE IT SO THAT GOD IS APPROVING in this case a homosexual lifestyle. Yes God loves us but as a Christian there needs to be repentance. He loves us like a father, and as a good father, He knows how we think.
MandolinforJesus 1 year ago
@MandolinforJesus If there is a god and that god punishes people because they love someone of the same sex then that god is a monster. It's refreshing that I can use my brain and realize that it couldn't be true. That logic hold that a being can't be just, merciful and cruel at the same time. A perfect being would have to be able to make laws that are logical and rational. I doubt there is such a monstrous god but if there is I could not accept salvation.
awatson945 1 year ago
@MandolinforJesus What I don't get is why others can't see something so plainly simple. Why would they worship a being more barbaric than Joseph Stalin, Pol Pot and Mao all together. I guess it's true that the power of faith will cause people to believe anything absurd.
awatson945 1 year ago
@MandolinforJesus You are clinging to an iron age superstition. There's no evidence that it is true. On the contrary, the Bible is full of obscene and vulgar messages. Killing and torturing children. Those who believe in such immorality are by extension immoral. You can't be of the Bible and separate from the genocide, murder, infanticide, filicide, incest, etc., etc..
awatson945 1 year ago
@MandolinforJesus The Bible's message is both contradictory and replete in it's prescription to kill, kill, kill. Over and over the Bible treats outsiders without mercy and without consideration. It so easily justifies inhumanity. It's sad that it was ever written. What's sadder still is that people can't see what is plainly written. Kill the amalikites. Kill women. Kill children. Torture. Rape. Even the innocent. None are spared. We need desperately to grow up and let go of superstition.
awatson945 1 year ago
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@awatson945 but God loves you and I : )
MandolinforJesus 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@awatson945 but God loves you and I : )
MandolinforJesus 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@awatson945 but God loves you and I : )
MandolinforJesus 1 year ago
Jennifer, it's all about you, right? Let what's right be ignored because you want something, even though you know it wrecks what you sang you stood for. Man, you are one selfish woman!
majajh 1 year ago
@majajh That's rather arrogant. Your sexual preference is in line with your indoctrinated beliefs. So you want to push your dogmatic beliefs founded on thousands of years of edits of edits of interpretations of interpretations. What kind of chutzpa is it to think that you really know that god gives a damn what people do with their genitalia? If there is a god that created hundreds of billions of galaxies then I can't imagine anything more petty for him to care about.
awatson945 1 year ago
Jennifer, the Bible says you are outside and under condemnation for choosing to remain in sin. In short, you are an apostate. I'm deleting every album I have of yours on my iPod.
majajh 1 year ago
@majajh majajh you are relying on the edits of edits of interpretations of interpretations of oral traditions. The Bible is full of nonsense including the killing of children, the condoning of slavery and other attrocity. To be so adamant that you know the mind of god based on something that has gone through so many translations and edits is just dishonest. You don't.
awatson945 1 year ago
In the end we'll find out, won't we?
Jennifer Knapp essentially says, "Yeah, I'm sinning, so what? I want to sin, and I'm not sorry about it." I sin, and I regret it when I do. That's not saying I am better, but I'm not throwing up sorry excuses.
majajh 1 year ago
@majajh Yeah, maybe the Hindu's are right or maybe the Muslims are right. Maybe god wants people who will think for themselves and not brain dead robots chained to dogma. There are thousands of sects and you think you've found the right dogma. If there is a "truth" that you must find then statistically you can rest assured that you are going straight to hell.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 Tired, worn out, ridiculous arguments, and very common to what I said before I was regenerated by Jesus Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. What can't be explained and only experienced is the role of the Holy Spirit. (continued...)
musclecasper 1 year ago
"The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ." 1 Cor.2:14-16.
musclecasper 1 year ago
@musclecasper 1.) Circular reasoning (using the bible to prove your belief in the bible). 2.) Ad hominem poisoning the well. 3.) Special pleading.
Are you trying to set a record for fallacy? Now THAT'S tired, worn out and ridiculous not to mention specious.
awatson945 1 year ago
@musclecasper A.) Rhetoric. B.) I made arguments and they are good ones. C.) You have no argument. D.) Hindu's know they are right from the power of their spirits. Mormon's know they are right from the power of Joseph Smith. Scientologists, JW's, Muslims, etc.. E.) You beg the question (your conclusion assumes the premise.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 This is why it is useless in arguing this. Faith issues can't always be proven that is why they are issues of faith. However, what separates Christ from Hindus, Mormons, Scientology, JW, and Muslims is the doctrine of Grace. All the "faiths" that are mentioned are worked based and you have to prove your worth to God. Only Jesus is Grace based and our obedience to Him is not out of obligation but an expression of love. Jesus said, "if you love me obey my commands." John 14:15
musclecasper 1 year ago
@musclecasper Translated: Christianity is special and is exempt from critical thinking, logic and reason. Nonsense. That's special pleading and it's a fallacy. Now you are begging the question. Your premise assumes your conclusion. There is nothing axiomatic about "grace". It's a human construct. It's a fairytale. Magical thinking.
awatson945 1 year ago
@musclecasper It's only useless if YOU HAVE NO ARGUMENT!
Bob: I believe in Santa Claus.
Jim: Santa couldn't visit every home in one night.
Bob: It's useless arguing with you Jim.
Talk about tired arguments.
awatson945 1 year ago
@musclecasper I don't mind debating with theists but it's rather disapointing when you attack my arguments WITHOUT a shred of addressing them and then engaging in fallacy.
You can do better my friend. There are some great theist websites out there that will teach you how to argue and avoid making such silly mistakes.
awatson945 1 year ago
You Tubers, listen carefully to this video. What a poor and sorry person Bob is. So much to say. He is not capable of leading, speaking on the subject or talking to one in a manner of love. Definitely a sorry representative of Christ and the Church. Just a plain miserable example of a follower of Christ. Overall, Bob does have alot to learn. What a disappointment Bro. All you did was get in the way. But thankful to God the Spirit speaks to all people who seek His truth.
thenewday1 1 year ago
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You Tubers, listen carefully to this video. What a poor and sorry person Bob is. So much to say. He is not capable of leading, speaking on the subject or talking to one in a manner of love. Definitely a sorry representative of Christ and the Church. Just a plain miserable example of a follower of Christ. Overall, Bob does have alot to learn. What a disappointment Bro. All you did was get in the way. But thankful to God the Spirit speaks to all people who seek His truth.
thenewday1 1 year ago
In 1 Cor. It is quite clear were Homosexuals go. And the cheating and anger is all sin as well and all sin would cause you to Go to Hell. Continueing in sin and it going UNremented or continueing on with it will cause you to go to hell.
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 Yes, the Bible is clear about lots of stuff. Not killing witches. Kill babies. God killed babies in the flood. God killed babies in Egypt. God has a hard on for killing babies. THAT'S clear. The 10 commandments is clear (depending on which version in the Bible you choose). Kill people who work on the sabbath. The arrogance of Christians who think they know the mind of god astounds me. Here's a hint you don't really. (cont).
I've a hint for you. You don't really.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 You don't even know if there is a god. You have faith. Just because you are confident that you understand everything in the Bible and that you know the mind of god DOESN'T MAKE IT TRUE. There is no consensus among theological experts. The Bible is so full of nonsense and contradiction that it's impossible to use as an absolute source for god's mind. And no one knows that it is the word of god at all. It's not persuasive to a non Christian. On the contrary, it's silly.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 ok cool im glad that you can see these things in wich God did these things. Now lets look at the reasions all of these things happened.. o yea that is a result of what SIN. and when christ died on th cross he defeted sin not for us to continue in sin but to have victory over sin by what?, dieing to our selves
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 Are you responding to me? I don't see a god. There is no evidence for a god. "Sin"? It's a sin to kill babies. Why does the Bible say that god killed babies? It makes no sense. I can understand if the Bible is the fertile imagination of Iron Age nomads. see, THAT makes sense. Back then they thought it was okay to kill babies under certain circumstances. Now it's not okay.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 ok so if you dont beleve in God then you dont understand what jenefer knapp has done in a sinfull act. my first point. Second What are you talking about spicificly when you talk about God killing babies?
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 I studied theology and served a 2 year full time mission before becoming an atheist. I understand the premise of sin. It's far more complex than your cherry picked notion. Babies? Flood. First born of Egypt. See, that's what people did back then. They killed babies. So they had no reason to re-think their mythology and come up with a better story. One where god isn't a monster.
"Blessed are they that dasheth thy little ones against the rocks". --Psalm 137:9
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 Ok, So First with the quote that you have taken from psalms, Why have you left out the context of the first 8 vs. Second it says Happy shall he be, that takes and dashes the little ones aginst the stones. Happy shall he be. It is talking about the Jews being in captivity and what the babylon people were doing to them. The first born of egypt, Are you referring to the 10th plague that god put on they people of egypt because pharaoh who had multiple chances to let them go and didn't?
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 >>"Why have you left out the context of the first 8..."
As if any context could make it okay to kill innocent children.
>>"...it says Happy shall he be..."
Here's a surprise, the original wasn't written in English. I copied and pasted from a translation using Biblegateway.
>>"...because pharaoh who had multiple chances to let them go and didn't?"
Yeah, because THAT would make it okay to kill children.
Thank you for trying to rationalize the killing of children.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 No problem, Every one there had a choice that night, Because What Saved the 1st born children was the lambs blood on the door, The Disobedience to God Is what caused the death of the children. They had a choice. So yes. There were all ways choices even from the beginning. Man Chose "Sin," through parents disobedience children do have to suffer as well as adults.
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 How did the children have a choice? Infants?
By your logic it would be okay to kill the children of serial killers, right? I think you know better. Killing children is NEVER okay. If there is a god that kills children then he is a monster. No amount of justification or rationalization will change that. I'm certain that the bible is a book of legends and fairytales and that no such being exists. I'm greatfull for that.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945, understanding the fact that you do not believe in God, though you think you know stuff about Godly stuff because you went to theology school for 2 years, you have become what the bible says "for ever learning but never coming to a understanding of the truth." but try to remember this fact. God created, he has the right to take away. Fact, Every one dies, Not every one knows when some one will die. For God to take lives is not wrong. What maters is how you chose to live yours.
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 I served a 2 year mission AND studied theology.
>>"God created, he has the right to take away."
By this logic morality is simply the whim of a capricious and malevolent diety. I'm glad it's not true.
>>""for ever learning but never coming to a understanding of the truth.""
2 problems 1.) ad hominem (fallacious logic) 2.) Why should anyone accept anything from the Bible (assuming you don't use circular logic)?
What makes you think you have the truth? (cont)
awatson945 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 >>"For God to take lives is not wrong."
Yes it is. What makes god exempt from morality? Is morality arbitrary? Is there any act god can't perform in your mind that would void his moral authority or is god indistinguishable from the devil? Your description of him makes him a capricous and malevolent monster. You like this charachter just because you think he favors you. My morality prevents me from worshiping such a monster BECAUSE I am moral.
Good thing he doesn't exist.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945, My question for you, You say "I am moral" what are you moral to, or what sets this standard for you. second you all ready know my opinion of differences of God from Satan.
So to answer your question. " what makes me thing i have the truth, well you went to missions as well, so you may expect this answer, But the Change That christ Directly had in my life, Changing me, My heart from were i was to were I am, A "worldly person" to a follower of Christ. to sum it up, (cont)
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 No mater, what i originally turned to could not of saved me from were i was. I know Christ exists because same as the wind, I see the affects of what christ did in my life as well as others. (Simple example.) And yes Everything dose fall in to the balance of a higher power to determine right from wrong. He is Righteous.
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 >>"That christ Directly had in my life..."
A personal appeal. God changing peoples life is how Mormons know Joseph Smith is a prophet of god. It is how Muslims know Mohammad was god's prophet and it is how they both know that you are deluded. You don't belive them for the sam reason I don't belive you.
>>"He is Righteous."
If genocide, infanticide, xenophobia, slavery, misogyny are righteous. Sure. Keep it. I don't want any part of such a monster.
awatson945 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 >>"...what are you moral to"
Evolved sense of right and wrong. Reason. Logic. But I'm curious, do you not know that killing children is always immoral? Really?
>>"second you all ready know my opinion of differences of God from Satan."
NO! What you describe IS a monster.
awatson945 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 Stop using the Bible as some literal instruction guide handed down from god. Otherwise you will have to perform mental gymnastics to chuck the bad stuff and keep the stuff that fits your personal view of the world.
awatson945 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 You could conveniently say that Jesus changed things but it doesn't answer the question why god would be such a murderous thug in the OT. How did god as a different version of himself (Jesus) change himself to not kill anymore? What do you mean "defeated sin"? How does god defeat his own punishment for sin? Why did god have himself killed to defeat his own punishment? Why didn't god just forgive people?
awatson945 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 If you say, god had no choice then you are just asserting something to solve a problem you can't solve. Why did god have no other choice? Again, the oral traditions and legends of Iron Age people makes far more sense.
awatson945 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 - That depends which bible translation you're reading in regards to 1 Corinthians. Not every bible translates it as homosexual, which is a red flag in regards to tranlastions.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics ok well looking at that i under stand that but every version has the first chapter of romans in it talkign a bout doing what is shamefull with another. and i think that the only translation that dosent have it i could be mistaken is NIV wich also leaves out a number of other verses
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 - It's quite easy and understandable to associate homosexuality with a word like shameful. However, what I believe Paul is expressing is sexual acts (not having to do with loving relationship, by the way) that were done in contexts of idolatry, which is why the topic of idols/images are mentioned in the letter to the Romans in chapter 1.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics
rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in [their] knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Rom 1:29
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics Now if it were just the fact of lust the same as man with woman or woman with man it would of been writen like it has benn in other passages of the bible. this is talking directly of Man and Man and Woman and Woman same sex engaments. P.s The only virsion that i could find with out homoxexuality written in 1cor is acctualy the message bible, and the message bible is not a literal translation of the bible a word for word to speak, read the preface of that version.
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 - Not sure what you mean by your "Now if it were just the fact of lust..." posting. That one confuses me.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics I may of miss understood what you were saying. my point was that in other places in the bible it is very clear that sex outside of marriage is wrong normally implying man and woman, Romans ch1 is very clear about committing unnatural acts with a man and a man or woman and a woman. is that any clearer?
Ryanyz80 1 year ago
@Ryanyz80 - Two people of the same gender can be married. As far as the terms "natural" and "nature" go, they should be defined according to the Greek language. That which is natural for you may not be natural to another person.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
Interesting. Love her music, disagree with her views and his, but I sure do love Larry!
~Mike
Elationist 1 year ago
"why is homosexuality treated differently in regards to other sins?"
--God destroyed 2 cities simply because of homosexuality. hmmm.....
i don't recall him flat out destroying a town of liars. you cannot deny that the complete destruction of homosexuals by God Himself isn't something to be treated as harsher by society. all sins are equally wrong, but that knapp lady is just trying to justify her sin.
oopzUsuck 1 year ago
@oopzUsuck I suggest you read your Bible a little closer. The Bible does not say that S&G were destroyed because of homosexuality. It DOES list a number of other reasons including idolotry. The only reference to homsexuality is the story of the men wanting to have sex with the angels.
awatson945 1 year ago
@oopzUsuck - Yes, you should re-read the story. It says everyone in the city surrounded Lot's house. Everyone from young to old. Every person from every part of the city. You assume this was an all homosexual city. Not likely. "Men of the city" means people of the city, not all males of the city.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
Religion poisons everything.
bigjstokes 1 year ago
loving her strength
italoblu 1 year ago
It is pointless to urgue, if you do not believe Bible or God, but it does not mean you should interpret the Bible the way you want. This is alive book, and as more you read as more you find something new and revealing. Jesus is love, is life, is truth, is healing, is freedom... These list can be continued, although, you can not understand it until you will meet Him personaly and will want to understand the scripture with your heart.
2010anv 1 year ago
@2010anv Special pleading. All religions do it so don't feel bad. It's utter nonsense.
awatson945 1 year ago
Christ must be received by faith, not religion and its useless traditions. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God and responding to it through humility and a sense of one's sin before God's holiness. One calls out to Christ, not religion or theology, and asks God for His mercy and forgiveness. But sin must be recognized first and a desire to turn from it completely must be in the heart. Without admitting sin, without repentance, there is no place for the grace of God. And sin remains.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks You are not god's spokes person. God told you not to judge. Get the beam out of your eye and stop worrying about other people. If God is the smartest being in the universe then he doesn't need you to go around being his judge and jury. Worry about yourself. Love your neighbor.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 The Bible tells believers to speak the truth to someone lost in sin. To snatch them from fire. He warns against hypocritical judging. Nowhere did I, or the pastor in this interview, use condemnation in speaking the truth to Jennifer. You hate the truth and it offends you, which it should seeing how Christ said it would to those opposed to it. Loving someone also includes warning them of error that will destroy them eternally. Agreeing with them is not love, it's a lie.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks A perfect god wouldn't infinitely punish anyone for a finite crime. The Bible is an ancient text full of attrocity and mythology.
awatson945 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks I see no humility in you. I see self righteousness and a judgemental nature. God commanded you to remove the beam from your own eye and not to judge others. Why is god's word so hard for you to understand? Love your neighbor. That is the second great law. Worry about yourself. God is the most powerful being in the universe. He doesn't need your self righteousness. He needs you compassion and empathy.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 So, you are judging me for preaching the pure gospel that Christ has told all of His believers to preach? In terms of improper judging, of which you accuse me, we are told to judge the fruit. And the irony is lost on you, that you quote the Bible which you mock, and take a verse out of context while doing so. We are to judge all things, whether they be true and you can find that in the book of Acts. I'm not going to argue with you, others have and you continue in unbelief.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks You don't speak for God. You don't know God's mind. If you had been born in Saudi Arabia you would have been Muslim. India you would have been Hindu or Sikh.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 To agree with someone in gross error offends God and perpetuates the deception that a person is caught up in. It is compromise not love. There is One Way, One Truth and One Life. Christianity is a narrow path. I pray that Jennifer and others caught in this deception will be freed by the God who loves them but is separated from them because they call sin, love. I pray for you that you will accept the Cross of Christ and repent of unbelief and be healed. Grace to you.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks You cannot know God's mind. There is nothing outside of the Bible that demonstrates that the Bible is true. Jesus said not to pray in public so you will be seen of men. Announcing that you will pray is the same thing. Stop being such a hypochrite and pray in secret. Don't take the Bible as absolute truth. Love other people and don't judge.
awatson945 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - I don't think Jesus is concerned about people receiving him in the tradtional "ask Jesus into your heart", which, by the way, I don't think is in the bible, but taught to you instead. Jesus, I believe, asks that we live as he said we should and in that sense, you are following Jesus. You don't have to be a Christian to love thy neighbor as self. That is the Law Of Christ: love thy neighbor as self. When done, you are loving God at the same time.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics Jesus is extremely concerned that all people should come to understand and accept and rejoice that He is the Way the Truth and the Life. Why? Because doing good works does not save anyone or absolve them from sin debt owed to God. Christ died to remove our sin as we believe in His finished work on the Cross. Good works flow from that. Christ first, works next and never the other way around.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - I disagree. That's just what you've had drilled into you. I say, Jesus wants us to live according to the example he gave us because it's the way, it's the truth, and it's what leads to life. I don't recall Jesus in the bible ever asking someone to ask him into their hearts.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics It's what the Bible says in black and white, Your argument is with the Bible. So frankly, what you say matters very little. It is what the Bible says clearly. The most sober verses in the Bible are spoken by Jesus to those who come to Him and point to their good works.....He says depart from Me, I never knew you.
He wants us to live and love others but without Christ as Savior and Lord established by faith in heart, soul and mind, works are like filthy rags before Him.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - Again, Jesus' law is not based on works and his law is the one and only, love thy neighbor as thyself. That's all. And, again, when you love your neighbor, you are loving God. I'm coming from the bible just like you are.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics All I am trying to make clear is this....you can surrender your body to the flames for the weak and suffering, you could give your everything to everyone but apart from Christ as Lord and Savior and accepting Him and His Words as He presents Himself a person has no salvation.
To point to loving your neighbor as justification is to point to something apart from Christ's Cross for salvation and it means nothing. What exactly are you saying?
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - Do you agree or diagree that when you love your neighbor, you are loving God? True or false?
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - Do you agree or diagree that when you love your neighbor, you are loving God? True or false, according to your faith?
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - I never said it's the works that save. Jesus' law is the one and only, love thy neighbor as self. That is it and it's not based on works. The bible distinguishes between between works (Mose's law) and the law that has nothing to do with works (Jesus' law).
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics I agree. But loving your neighbor is not about physical intimacy it is about selfless care and kindness as Christ taught with the good Samaritan.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - What makes you think I'm talking about physical intimacy? I am talking about equity towards others, compassion, and the like. If you agree that loving your neighbor means you are loving God then why do you say loving God is first and loving neighbor is second when they are equal?
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics Sorry. Ok I accept that definition of love. What you seem to be saying is that loving your neighbor fulfills the Law...and I agree....but that does not supercede or replace the fact that a person must accept the Cross of Christ for Salvation. Without the sacrifice of Christ covering a person's sins, that person is actually an enemy of God and His wrath remains on him. That's what I meant by Christ first then works of love. Good works do not justify a person before God.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - At least we're getting somewhere (smile). So, you agree that loving your neighbor is the fulfillment of the law. If this is the fulfillment of the law, there is nothing else to be done by the one who loves his/her neighbor as self. If something is fulfilled, there's nothing else to fulfill. It is done. It's quite simple.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics Not really that simple. If a person points solely to good works as to justify himself that he is fulfilling the law, he is in great error. Only Christ fulfilled the Laws of God perfectly and our perfection is found in Him alone. He is our only substitute. He did what we can never do. No amount of love can replace the sacrifice Jesus made at Calvary. If you are suggesting that your love substitutes Christ Cross, you are mistaken.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - For some reason, you keep pointing out that works don't justify somone when I have repeatedly told you that Jesus' laws is not based on works. Works would refer to the OT law of Moses. The law I keep telling you about is Jesus' law and it is NOT based on works. Why do you keep bringing up works as if I were bringing up works? Is it becasue you believe loving thy neighbor is works?
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics Do not confuse or equate loving your neighbor as a substitution for putting your entire faith in Jesus Christ's finished work at Calvary.
He who has the Son has life, He who does not have the Son does not have life.
Perfect love is this: To believe on the One whom God has sent. People try to get around the Cross in many ways...there is only one way to the Father, Jesus Christ.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - You're close, but not there yet. That's okay. Don't you see that when you love your neighbor as yourself, you ARE putting your faith in Jesus? You have another definition of 'putting your faith in Jesus'. The one that you were taught from the first time you were told by someone. However, Jesus, as I am learning, did not say to belive in him as we've been taught. But to believe in his way, his truth, his light, which is to live a certain way and that is what saves you.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics No I do not see that at all. Why? Because their are many people who love their neighbors and they absolutely despise the Name of Christ, the Cross of Christ, the reason for Christ. They mock the Bible, hate it's message of redemption, refuse to acknowledge the Cross as payment for sins point continually to the fact that they love other people. God accepts one way to Him and that way is through faith in His Son and not through a doctrine of love taught that avoids the Cross.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - The doers of the law are justified before God. They may not have accepted Jesus into their hearts, as modern day Christianity seems to believe should be done, but they are a law unto themselves because they instinctively do that which is the law: love thy neighbor as self. For it is more important that you show love than it is to say who you love.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks (continued) - If Jesus said that loving thy neghbor as self is equal to loving God and a person lives loving their neighbor as self, they are trusting Jesus. They have placed faith in him and what he said. If someone loves their neighbor as self, but they are not aware that Jesus said this is the law or they do not believe Jesus said this yet it is how they live, they are still justified. Ignorant that they are justified (becasue they do not believe it), but justified nonetheless.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics No one can please God by the Law, or by keeping the Law. No one. The entire Bible is about the redemption of man through the work of Christ. From Genesis to Revelation...Christ. Not man's efforts, no matter how noble or loving. Or Jesus Christ was sent in vain, died in vain and men's effort of loving acts was all that was necessary to restore them. Sad to say but the love you profess is only pride that refuses to acknowledge Christ's death for your sin.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - Actually, the bible says the doers of the law will be justified. You are apparently thinking of works still. Whereas, the law of which I speak, as I've said before, has nothing to do with works. There is more than one law. One has to do with works. The other does not.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics You're creating your own gospel and denying and avoiding the Cross of Christ. He was sent as payment for your sins. Sins that you cannot absolve by anything except through faith and faith alone through His sacrifice. Any love you can do will never cleanse you from your sins. By loving to please God, you are making love a "work". Your love to please God and be accepted by Him is nothing more than defiance that says, God, I am accepted by You because I love. It's only pride.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - If a person is considered just before God, what does that mean, trfilmworks? What does it mean to be just or justified before God?
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - If a person is considered just before God, what does that mean, trfilmworks? What does it mean to be just or justified before God? Romans 2:13 tells us that the doers of the law will be just before God. Again, there are two laws and your mind is only stuck on one of the two. Christ's law is not considered works. Only Moses' law is considered works.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - You still have not commented on Romans 2:13 & 14. To put faith in Christ is to believe that he said loving neighbor is the same as loving God and if you do this, you are saved. There's more than one kind of saving going on here. Just like there is more than one law spoken of in the bible. You are not seeing this. I cannot explain in a limited Youtube comment.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - And I am not creating my own gospel. What I've said is from the bible. You just don't see it that way. When you want to hear the full story instead of bits and pieces (because that's all I can type here on this limited comment page, I will gladly explain in more detail what I am trying to get you to see, whether you agree with it or not. I cannot do it on a word limited comment page.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
Respond to this video... You are called to love but that is only pleasing to God after you put your trust in Christ. Not the other way around. Without faith it is impossible to please Him. Love Christ first and then your love is acceptable. You need to have faith in Christ's blood alone. That is what the entire Bible speaks of from Genesis to Revelation....Blood offered to cleanse sins. Christ Christ Christ. Justification requires blood, death, sacrifice. Jesus Christ at Calvary!
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - I disagree that you have to put your faith in Christ first in order for your love for others to please God. Love itself pleases God for, as the bible says, God is love. So simply by loving, you are manifesting God. It is no wonder that Jesus equated loving neighbor with loving God because God is love and love covers a multitude of sins. It also say, owe no man NOTHING BUT to love one another.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics You're creating a gospel of your own making. One that says, "All you need is love". I'm presenting an argument that has the whole of scripture from Genesis to Revelation to back it up. The completion of the Bible is the Cross of Christ. The entire story from Genesis to Revelation is the Cross of Christ and the pathetic, however noble, attempts of man to absolve himself of sin as he avoids the Cross. You're presenting your own way of redemption to avoid the grace of God.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - Jesus' death was not in vain because Jesus lived and taught how we should love one another. He is the one who said that loving thy neighbor is equal to loving God. That's why if you feed a stranger, you are feeding God. What law do you think Romans 2:13, 14 is talking about? Those who do this law are justified.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics It was in vain for you because if all you need to do is love your neighbor...He suffered brutally on a Cross for nothing that you can do without Him.
The law was completely abolished by Christ's death and resurrection as you put your faith in Him. Without faith it is impossible to please God. The verse above is only valid once you put your faith in Christ's cleansing, atoning blood. Otherwise you are accountable for the whole Law.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - What makes you think I'm talking about physical intimacy? I am talking about equity towards others, compassion, and the like. If you agree that loving your neighbor means you are loving God then why do you say loving God is first and loving neighbor is second? It makes no sense to say loving God is first and loving neighbor is second if you agree that when you do one, you are doing the other equally.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
I'm happy for Jennifer and proud that she has the integrity and courage to be truthful.
philipyk 1 year ago
She is sadly mistaken. Or, she is proudly disregarding. Maybe she is loophole searching? She is scripture twisting. Verse dodging? She is calling herself a quarterback and showing up to play at an ice rink with a polo pony and a lacrosse stick. The devil's job is to confuse, twist, contort unscriptural minds with feelings and a crowd of equally confused people rewriting the Bible and creating a "church" for people like her to attend. Confess sin, repent and seek Christ for grace.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks what makes Christians so judgemental? Assuming that there is a god what makes you think that you know his mind? The Bible? A collection of oral legends and traditions written down between 2-3,000 years ago. Look, faith is fine but confidence that only your view is right is rather arrogant.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 If someone came up to you on a street and proclaimed, without even a blink, that 2 and 2 was 3 you would tell that person....hey, sorry but you are wrong. 2 and 2 is 4 and will always be 4 and always has been 4. They then reply ,but I learn from teachers who tell me otherwise. What would you do with that response? Is it judgment to insist they are wrong? How is it benefitting that person to agree? Is it hating on someone to tell them they are wrong when they are? Read the Bible
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks Math is deductively true. It can be proven. Your view of the Bible isn't. There is no objective truth in it. Your reason is at best circular. If you want to believe it then that is your prerogative but don't compare math to faith. There is simply no comparison. And don't tell me to read the Bible. I studied theology and served a full time two year mission. I've also studied philosophy and formal logic and I would not make the kind of error you just did.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 You must be born again. Know that quote? Christ spoke it to a studied man of RELIGION. Until you are BORN AGAIN the Bible is a cold and dead book to you, and to others as well. Without a personal encounter with Christ you are blind to the purpose of the scriptures. Christianity is NOT about RELIGION. It is about relationship with the Living God through Jesus Christ. Religion, theology, philosophy are blindfolds to the truth of the gospel.
Only repentance removes the blindfolds
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks Special pleading and circular reasoning. I'm sure an omniscient god can do a little better than that.
awatson945 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - Actually, true religion is loving thy neighbor as self. Caring for the sick, the poor, feeding the hungry, giving drink to the thirsty, clothing those in need of clothes, etc. Not just Christians do this. Jesus did not create Christianity. Man did. Anyone who loves is of God and God is in them. When you love your neighbor as self, you are loving God at the same time.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics The single most important question in the Bible is asked by Jesus to His disciples....Who do you say that I am? That question has only one answer that brings eternal life; Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. If one does not have Christ, accepted as He reveals Himself in the Bible, no amount of good or loving works can ever fill the void before God. Works cannot save or justify a person before God because only faith in the atoning work of Christ counts.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - Asking the disciples who they thought he was does not say, "You must ask me into your heart or else you will not be saved!" And, no, works do not save. Jesus' law is not based on works. That was Moses' law. Jesus' law is simple: Love thy neighbor as thyself. When you love your neighbor, you are viewed as loving God. That's definitely in the bible.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - Asking the disciples who they thought he was does not say, "You must ask me into your heart or else you will not be saved!" And, no, works do not save. Jesus' law is not based on works. That was Moses' law. Jesus' law is simple: Love thy neighbor as thyself. When you love your neighbor, you are viewed as loving God.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks The Bible contains instructions to murder people. It contains cruel and unusual punishment. It contains evident falsehoods. No one can walk on water or turn water into wine. Prayer can't heal amputees. Belief is one thing. Telling everyone that your belief is the only right way is presumptious. Perhaps you should take the beam out of your eye.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 Love your posts.
otter4771 1 year ago
@awatson945 I am responding to you because you're blanket criticism of the Bible is what is kicked around by people who have never studied the Bible and get sucked in by sound bytes, misquotes, a lazy lack of investigation and cultural oblivion. The Bible can be ripped apart by ignorance and confusion, through prejudice to make it read however one wants. If you knew Christ personally you would understand that it is a book about love and grace and the eternal mercy of God on people who hate Him.
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks You engaging in the fallacy of special pleading and ad hominem. If you have a specific argument I would happily respond. As it is you've not said anything.
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 Jennifer represents a person who calls herself a Christian but has departed from the Word of God. That word forbids homosexuality. To call yourself a Christian yet engage in what is outside of Christianity and be proud of it is absurd.. It's one thing to struggle with homosexuality, it is another thing to delude yourself that you are pleasing God is a lifestyle that scripture declares God abhors. Her error continues through false teachers. 1 Timothy 4:1-2 and 2 Timothy 4: 3-4
trfilmwrks 1 year ago
@awatson945 - A mouthful has been said even in one posting. You have a blind eye and ear to trfilmwrks points.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics There are a lot of people I respect that I do not agree with. People who make vague accusations are not among them. What are you talking about?
awatson945 1 year ago
@awatson945 - Not sure, Awatson945. I think I got you confused with another poster. Sorry about that. Sounds like you are on my side of this issue.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics Cool. :-)
awatson945 1 year ago
@trfilmwrks - You got it right, trfilmwrks. God will save (and has saved) everyone already. "He's" just waiting for us to catch up to what "He" already knows.
JimmieLeeLyrics 1 year ago
@JimmieLeeLyrics And you know the mind of god how? Oh wait, let me guess, circular reasoning right? See, if I write a book that declares something as truth all I have to do is write in the book that it's god's truth and viola, it's truth. And here is the kicker, the older the book and the more popular the book is the more true it is.
awatson945 1 year ago