Periolase - Laser Gum Treatment

[pstreicher]

@raidereddie, I too am skeptical of some dentists diagnosis. Greed is a huge problem in America now and this disease has spread around the world. I've gotten a pre-estimate for this treatment for my wife and it hugely expensive. Need it be? I just watched a video where it only takes a couple of hours. So, a charge of $5,400 is obscene to say the least. Even with Metlife insurance it will still cost us $3,900 I was told. Then, the recurring quarterly treatments? I don't fully understand all yet.

[drsksmith]

Is LANAP only possible with an nd YAG or can we use CO2?

[drsksmith]

Is LANAP only possible with an nd YAG or can we use CO2?

[johnddscom]

Ted Bleckstein DDS MS

I have no clue as to what you are talking about as far as I know I have never used the term "GUMGUY".

I know that you were offended by my grandfather losing his profession but that is what happened, technology made him and his profession (telegrafist) obsolete. I wish the book "Who moved my cheese" would have been around in his day but unfortunately it wasn't, though you have the opportunity to read it and maybe learn to deal with change.

[ERCACHAQUIN]

what are the prices of laser gum treatment?

[johnddscom]

Depends on the case.

[PerioTed]

From what you are attempting to portray - that "the periolase is capable of treating advanced gum disease" - you are stating that the periolase can replace the entire 3-year dental specialty program in periodontics. This is misleading advertising. Also, you failed to state that the clinical study, performed by Dr. Yukna, was funded by the corporation which manufactures the periolase - this is not an objective evaluation of the product. I'm a Periodontist who uses lasers - convince me!

[johnddscom]

Not a red cent has been spent to disprove the results all periolase owners have gooten

Not a $1 has been spent on the 4 year old FDA clearence that says "NEW CEMENTUM MEDIATED ATTACHEMENT TO THE ROOT SURFACE IN THE ABSCENCE OF LONG JUNCTIONAL EPITHELIUM"

Why has nothing been spent on disproving the FDA clearence?

[johnddscom]

YES, the Periolase is capable of treating advanced gum disease! And it does it remarkably well.

[PerioTed]

Are you a periodontist? ... NO!

Be careful of what you state as being true if you do not have the academic (University)credentials to support your claims.

[johnddscom]

Again I do not claim anything the FDA has not stated. Why don't you call Ray Yukna he happens to be a periodontist, happens to be (academic) in that he is the head of the Perio department at the University of Colorado. If you ask him he has not picked up a blade or sutures in over 2 1/2 years for pocket elimination surgery.

Also ask any of your "periodontist" colleagues who have the Periolase, why they have not returned it for a full money back guarantee from MDT?

[PerioTed]

FDA clearance does not imply clinical efficacy of a product - when will you get that idea straight?

By the way ... check your spelling in the future.

[albodmd]

Dr. Yukna is a very well respected member of the periodontal reseach committee and for you to suggest he modified his results is very distasteful. He has a published peer-reviewed study to back him up. Do you? Do you have as much experience in research as he has? What lasers do you use and what studies do you have to support their use?

[PerioTed]

I am not attacking any person in my search for any convincing results which support the clinical use of this laser. Dr. Yukna's paper does not provide compelling evidence; in fact, he states that no histological studies were performed to make a conclusion. Why do you even suggest that he modified his results - when I didn't? I am sure you would like to find conclusive evidence of your laser's effectiveness; but, you cannot disparage the character of your audience who simply question your "word"

[albodmd]

By saying Dr. Yukna's study was not objective is disparaging to him. How many implant and membrane companies have sponsored studies? Are those all not objective also. Have you even read Dr. Yukna's latest study? Here's the first line from the abstract, "This report presents histologic results in humans following a laser-assisted new attachment procedure (LANAP) for the treatment of periodontal pockets." Look it up and come back. Again, what lasers do you use and can you provide refs also?

[johnddscom]

Ted

You said "no histological studies were performed to make a conclusion"

How can you say that unless you have not read the paper?

The first line of the paper says "This report represents histologic results in humans following a laser-assisted new attachement procedure (LANAP) for the treatment of periodontal pockets."

[johnddscom]

My Grandfather was a telegraphist.

Technology eliminated his profession.

[PerioTed]

After reading your web postings, I am very disappointed in your lack of respect for the dental profession and concern for your patients' care. As any GP-DDS, you have not been trained in advanced surgical theory, principles or practice by a University. If you believe that the 'periolase' will empower you to be the equivalent in clinical competancy to a Periodontal Specialist - then our profession, insurance providers and the State Dental Board would like to know - Please respond !

[albodmd]

The periolase is a tool to treat certain types of perio dz. Just as rotary endo is a tool to do rct's and invisalign is a tool to orthodontically move teeth. A GP doesn't need to be an endodontist or orthodontist to use those tools. The periolase has a published peer reviewed study that shows histological evidence "cementum-mediated new periodontal ligament attachment to the root surface in the absence of long junctional epithelium." . The FDA certification clears them to market this claim.

[PerioTed]

There is a significant flaw with your position. Dr. Yukna's brief report states:

"Clinical case reports (of only 6 patients)have reported favorable clinical results, but there is NO human histologic proof of regeneration." It is clear that you would like to imply the regenerative capabilities of periolase treatment when, in fact, this is not the case. Functional regeneration is the goal of periodontal treatment; not just the development of disorganized / non-functional PDL fibers.

[PerioTed]

Another concern arises that if you claim that a "cementum-mediated new periodontal ligament attachment to the root surface" occurs post treatment with the periolase then, the potential for ankylosis and/or external root resorption exists with treated sites. This concern prompts the need for larger and longer term studies to determine the clinical and histological extent of the consequences of 'periolase' treatment.

[albodmd]

Unfavorable outcomes can occur with any type of treatment. There is a multi-center study underway. Here's the citation for Yukna's study. 1: Int J Periodontics Restorative Dent. 2007 Dec;27(6):577-87. I reccommend reading it in it's entirety so you have a better understanding of the results.

[albodmd]

There is a significant flaw in your reading comprehension. What he was referring to was past Clinical case reports. If you read further down that 2003 report, he states, "These cases support the proof of principle that the Laser Assisted New Attachment Procedure using a free running Nd:YAG laser can be associated with periodontal regeneration on a diseased root surface in humans." He also states that new cementum, new bone, and new pdl were formed. Again, go to pubmed and read the 2007 study

[PerioTed]

'Proof of principle' is a qualifying statement which renders the study less than conclusive of functional PDL regeneration. You also fail to address the fact that - "NO human histologic proof of regeneration" was assessed in this study as per Dr. Yukna. This very small study fails to accomplish the goal of superiority on several levels and, lacking the requisite histological data, makes this limited study interesting but definitely not conclusive of demonstrating truly regenerative capability.

[albodmd]

Are you purposely not reading the whole study and all my posts? Dr. Yukna stated "These cases support the proof of principle that the Laser Assisted New Attachment Procedure using a free running Nd:YAG laser can be associated with periodontal regeneration on a diseased root surface in humans." And he showed it with HISTOLOGICAL slides that showed new cementum, new bone, and new pdl. This study was one of the largest of it's type and was done by a VERY reputable researcher in a University

[PerioTed]

I noticed on several professional web sites that you - John McAllister DDS Inc - have been acting very disrespectful toward your professional colleagues. You profusely & publicly ridicule and mock Periodontists and refer to us as: "GUMGUY" -- You appear to be a very crude person who does not productively contribute to our profession but who would rather slander and denigrate other doctors who don't happen to agree with your position. Watch your remarks - they WILL get you into trouble.

[johnddscom]

Instead of calling me crude, you, being an academic, could spend some time researching and disproving the FDA clearance. That would be productive and contribute to our profession.

I have no idea where you get that I have slandered or denigrated any colleague? That Bleck IS slander and I would ask you to retract it.

As far as your threats, grow up, and do the research to help mankind.

[johnddscom]

He who rejects change is the architect of decay. The only human institution which rejects progress is the cemetery. ~Harold Wilson

If you don't like something change it; if you can't change it, change the way you think about it. ~Mary Engelbreit

It is not necessary to change. Survival is not mandatory. ~W. Edwards Deming (Thank you, Michelle.)

When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves. ~Victor Frankl

[PerioTed]

This video clip presents information to potential patients which can be very misleading. It oversimplifies the complexities of gum diseases and the significance of an effective treatment plan which may involve the use of more than one type of approach. Infections of the gingival (gum) tissues alone can be trated with this type of laser; however, more advanced cases of periodontal disease often require the effective treatment and repair of damaged bone - this laser cannot perform this.

[albodmd]

The video clip was a news piece that was a few minutes long and didn't have time to delve into further complexities. The FDA after investigating this laser gave it clearance for marketing. Also Dr. Raymond A. Yukna, who is Prof. and Director of Advanced Periodontal Therapies at University of Colorado School of Dental Medicine, has a published study that showed 100% of the laser treated teeth had "new cementum and new connective tissue attachment". The Periolse can treat advanced gum disease.

[PerioTed]

FDA clearance for marketing this device is only granted for safety not efficacy of its ability to treat perio disease. Dr. Yukna's brief study only involved a few patients with NO histological evidence as stated in the research: "Clinical case reports

have reported favorable clinical results, but there is no human histologic proof of regeneration." While the periolase may be a good adjunct to clinical care, it cannot be substituted in place of more comprehensive treatment options-Please respond

[johnddscom]

Bleck

Human histology is not easily performed this happens to be the fourth largest of its kind in the perio literature. So to attempt to minimize the results shows your insecurity.

In your statement "cannot be substituted in place of more comprehensive treatment" I would refer you to MDT ask them for a list of periodontist who have the Periolase, ask them what they think of the RESULTS? All of those Periodontist had a 6 month money back guarantee and NONE have exercised that option.

[PerioTed]

Instead of presenting information in support of your position regarding the efficacy of the periolase you are attempting to claim that "I have insecurity"- Foolish move. As you have previously stated, you are 'only a GP dentist' ... Exactly who are you to comment about the broad field of a dental specialty - Periodontics. Also, are you the official the spokesman for periolase?

[donalddick197]

it's very expensive. i can't afford it in my practice right now

[deesterbanana]

I had it done and I am very happy with the results.

[dbrear1954]

It rocks