@chrstilen5 You are desperately trying to defend your boyfriend Karim, but there is nothing you can do as he was obviously "burned" in this debate, so stop spreading your Anti-Islamic stupidities and sell falafel with "Christian Prince."
@AngelofAllah2007 No I'm not. I'm just stating the fact. That your Islam man said, that the Quran is evil. By saying the bible is the same as the Quran and that the bible was evil.
If they are the same (In that subject) and the Bible is evil. Then that makes Islam evil.
Now we can debate if the Bible realy says the evil stuff that the Quran says. But we allredy proven the Quran to be shit. ^_^
But I dont realy care about the bible. Have Fun with your crap book
@chrstilen5 Hahahahaha, nice garbage you came up with Christian in Atheist clothing, sure, if you didn't give a damn about any of the books, then what are you doing here? :D All Sami said is that Karim is showing his double standards, he keeps saying "Muhammad killed" and the fact is, the people in the Bible killed as well.
i think Imam Shafi once said "i could debate 1000 man of knowledge n win,n debate an ignorant man n lose" ....i think that applies here :D........way to go Sami!! n i don't know how could u bear listening 2 this person?!!
You should be asking the real question... Is FAKE Mohammad really a prophet? Or did He invented his own brand of religion using parts and parcel of other religious text to advantage his wealth and social standings and be able to enjoy the sexual joys this world has to give? He is illiterate, a bandit, a sexaul pervert, a murderer and an opportunist... By being the last prophet does make him special? Mohammad's lifestyle is a joke what makes him so great? LOL
@shcoke2 cant expect u to respect our beloved prophet when u christians dont even respect your own prophets look at all the dirty accusations against the prophets in the bible and the one prophet who's character u didnt assasinate u turned him into god your a joke
@exposemyfoes Allah need dumbells like yourself to kill for him and bomb for him cos he is powerless. My God Yahweh (I Am Who Am) can do it Himself and can stuck down anyone from anywhere. Your Quran permit you to lie, instructs you to Kill all Infidels (enemy of Allah who are non believers) Mohamad told me to tell you to stip the bombing of Christians cos your fake heaven is running out of virgins... LOL....
How amazing was the Lord’s way in His urgent call to Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO from Cebu Philippines , a pilot of Aviation Security
Command (AVSECOM) from Cebu City that 1993. He caused the 40-year-old Stanley to go into
a deathly coma! And during that time when His doctors had proclaimed him “clinically dead”, Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO had encountered the Lord Jesus, the Divine Mercy in Paradise, who told him to “go back to the world for a mission.”
LOL. THAT WAS GREAT. THE CHRISTIAN GUY LOST BADLY, HE WOULDVE HAD MORE OF A CHANCE OF WINNING IF HE HAD JUST SATYED SILENT THROUGH OUT THE ENTIRE DEBATE.
which god are u talking about?>? we dont worship the same god MUSLIM, get it thru ur thick SKULL!!!!!, Ur allah dont have a son, our God of the bible has a son, John 3:16, so dont tell me MUSLIM!!!!!, u dont know wat u mean, shave ur beard, its scaring me!!!, I DEBUNK ur claims we worship the same God, why wud i want to worship sum ugly face arab god, YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!
their is only one islam but christianity has more than one million versions and still more are beeing made and if you really cant decide one type of christianity for the entire christian world i would have to agree that this is a problem,because if you are saying that christianity is the right path i would have to ask you wich one of many christianinties are you reffering to,seriously.
@obeada i must correct you, the prophet(saw) said there would be 72 sects of christians and 73 sects of muslims so dont use this as an arguement it is weak and not based on quran and sunnah. be careful of such claims.
@MuslimRevolutionist yes there will be 73 sects of muslims and of them 72 will go to hell, does not mean that they will stay in hell, but they will go to hell based on innovation into religion etc. hope that answers your question.
@obeada if you are saying that christianity is the right path i would have to ask you wich one of many christianinties are you reffering to,seriously.
REPLY -U are confused.Being under a label of christianity ,we all share a common belief ie JESUS IS THE WORD INCARNATE IE GOD.Thus ,we dont have a proble as suggest.Its the paractise that differs.Catholics concerntrate of traditional ritual of the sacrement. ( 30mins )n surmon (15mins ).Gospel churches practise hymn worship n surmon.( equal time )
wtf is up with all the comments about th kuran,the kuran has never been changed or missed with in any way,but the bible on the other hand has more than a thousand versions, hay i am just saying
@DrXoz u want to blieve u can b outside Christianity and worship God? oh no ,the bible says u cant drink from the cup of God and from cup of devils(islum,yea slum). We will never accept islum,u can blieve u worship God of the Bible for all u want, but the BIBLE condemns u muslims. Islum is the anti-christ. it denies Christ death and his authourity. The Bible puts accurse on muslims for tryn to pervet the bible
karim said "dont ever bring up the bible again"..and his reason was.."i will debate Muhammad".."not christian". he was too scared to debate about the bible. It wasnt because he wanted to debate muhammad.
@omgodsword u want to blieve u can b outside Christianity and worship God? oh no ,the bible says u cant drink from the cup of God and from cup of devils(islum,yea slum). We will never accept islum,u can blieve u worship God of the Bible for all u want, but the BIBLE condemns u muslims. Islum is the anti-christ. it denies Christ death and his authourity. The Bible puts accurse on muslims for tryn to pervet the bible
If Jesus did not die and if he was not raised from the dead on the third daythen Jesus was a false prophet
Yet according to Islam Jesus was a true prophet! Prophets do not miss in their predictions. Therefore, if Moh said Jesus did not die/not raised from the dead, he is a false prophet! If as Muslims claim, Jesus was a true prophet, how come Moh and his do not follow his teachings?
Quran falsehood, contains falsehood, and ends with falsehood.
@oombuddah we dont care wat u think about our bible, at least we are not obsess with ur koran, why is every muslim obsess with the bible and has a bible to prove something false from it, the rapist mo in the bible? PURLZZ, islum is the joke of this world and will always b. anytime u copy from another religion's book, u a JOKE!!! and we all laughing at islum, hahahahahahahahahaa, child molester u follow and u proud of it?SHAME!!!
@fajralislam72 u want to blieve u can b outside Christianity and worship God? oh no ,the bible says u cant drink from the cup of God and from cup of devils(islum,yea slum). We will never accept islum,u can blieve u worship God of the Bible for all u want, but the BIBLE condemns u muslims. Islum is the anti-christ. it denies Christ death and his authourity. The Bible puts accurse on muslims for tryn to pervet the bible
@fajralislam72 we dont care wat u think about our bible, at least we are not obsess with ur koran, why is every muslim obsess with the bible and has a bible to prove something false from it, the rapist mo in the bible? PURLZZ, islum is the joke of this world and will always b. anytime u copy from another religion's book, u a JOKE!!! and we all laughing at islum, hahahahahahahahahaa, child molester u follow and u proud of it? SHAME!!!
my sweet heart, really im unsure if u care to invite people to ur holly book or u are only interested in contempt of other people's beliefs.. coz i know, this is not the way of Christ-PBUH-,right?
@fajralislam72 He told us to tear down false religion , and islum is false, a copy cat religion with a copy cat book, islum will always be a joke cus its not real,,hahaha
@fajralislam72 Hahahahahha, go sell falafel, good one :D Karim is the worst piece of garbage you could ever encounter. He loves boasting of his "vast knowledge" in facebook where he calls himself "Christian Prince." He also loves promoting books with hate speec of Muslims and even considers himself a deity, since he claimed "No Muslim is knowledgeable enough to defeat me in a debate" You know very PROUD and stuff, but Sami was able to shut him as he has done to other hateful Zionists.
Allah did NOT make us do ANYTHING, but Allah gave us a free will to do right and wrong, and already knew what we were going to do, and millions of Christians believe in this.
The "free will" is a test for humans whether or not they follow God. IF God stopped are free will, we would NEVER be able to sin, but we would be like angels and the purpose of life would be meaningless.
That's what the Christian guy doesn't want to understand, YET Christians believe in the same thing.
all the christians r only showing there ignorance about the history , read! as the quran told
"read" is the first word which was revealed to uhamad peace be upon him , if every christian read the history before christianity and especialy the history of the romans religion and mithra who was born a 25 of december, they will leave christianity, or they will maybe try to find the real story of jesus peace be upon him , which is in the quran
lol no its not the last chapter of the quran , thank u for showing ur ignorance ;)
but the order of the chapters r not the order of the revelation , there is no problem , but for people like u who r tryin to hide the truth about ur mithra jesus god , its a problem , sure! becoz islam is the truth , and u r showing ur violance u christians ,
yes, we are all aware that the order of the revelations have been changed and added to coinside with the actions of muhammad. no prophesy there. we all know there is 'no problem' that the order of the revelations have been altered. because the quran is a coruption. christian violence? where in the NT the message from God is the violence?
when u talk to me u insults me , thats violence, the reality and u know it is that the order of the chapters is not important, and if it was corrupted u will not find the perfection of the mathematical miracles of the quran, the repetition of the words , like woman and man 23 time the word man and 23 time the word woman, 365 time the word day , etc etc u can find it i think on internet, but u now u make me laugh u know why? becoz if someone hav to talk about a coruption of a book the last people
insult are violence???IDIOTA!!! your whole comic book is an insult to non muslims. you stage all jihadic (struggle) against anyone. and as for your roman claim. NO ONE belives in your nonsence. even the late liar DEEDAT didnt use romans because its a lie. the bibles ruled before Romans. shame on you. shame on you for your lies and your deceit. shame on you for following a coruption of the bibles that isnt even in its original form. you follow OTHMANS quran. your claim to prefect word is a LIE
its not a lie , read abpout it its not the muslims who told it its christians who tried to find the truth , when u will be able to accept the truth of the history we will talk mister italian , u dont know who is othman ok , all u r tryin to do is to say that he changed the words of the quran , u r not objective read the history, and as i told u ur bible is written by many mayn people, and is the traduction of the traduction of the traduction
who can talk about it is the christians, with their many problem with differences about many story in each gospel its a little different, and u hav many version of the bible , some of u hav 66 books , other hav 72 books, u r debating about the real words said by jesus, u dont know what is the truth and what is not, and u come to us muslims who only hav 1 version of the quran, and u told us we hav a corupted book LOL ,
and u talk about violence , oh yes u hav many violence in the bible, when the jews wnt to palestine, ur god told them to kill every women every child and every man , except the vergin women, and to keep these vergin for them , what is more violent than this? ah and how can more than 2000 years ago people know that a women is vergin or not???
now what verse do you talk about liar? what verse you talk about? you forget about how your quran has been corupted? how the first revelation is READ but it is somwhere else, lost in the false quran???
of the traduction of the greek manuscript , u dont hav the originals, and there is many contradiction in the bible , many! and all of this r inspiration LOL
what??? what world do you live in?? yes...we do have the ORIGINAL manuscipts. what planet you are from?
you are a liar. your muslims tried to show christians and persians the truth by WAR. Islam took PERSIA. Islam took ROME. Islam took EUROPE. but Allah was defeated and pushed back to where you started. this is your perfection. WAR. you dont know uthman. your 'original' quran was burned. now you read a copy....COPY!!
realy? loooooool u hav the originals? lol u r realy an ignorant , plz ask ur priest u have not the originals, but u say that the people who write it was inprirated by the holy ghost
i dont lie im a muslim , but u lie u know why ? becoz in ur bible paul says that its not a problem to lie if its for defending his god
my Allah man,. you never hear of the dead sea scrolls right. you poor student. Allah really have deceived you. and yes you are a muslims, and the nation of Islam is a Lie!!
the dead see scrolls r not originals, they r copy too, and in fact the dead sea scrolls says that there is a liar, someone who told that he is preaching the true religion but in fact he corrupted it, and many of ur scholars thinks that its paul , who ftried to make the romans accepting his religion by taking some things of the pagan religion of the romans, read the history man
hahaha yes yse..the dead sea scrolls were written by the JEW. everything bad was the JEW. all the JEW did it. lets blame the JEW. oh no wait...not only the Jew but the ROMANS?? yes so...everything was the JEW and the ROMANS. you knwo whats great....the ROMANS DEFEATED ALLAH!!!!
u r an ignorant man , Allah is the god of the muslims and the christians, its the arabic name of "the only one god" in the arabic bible the name of god is allah , u r insulting ur god!
in fact i will not talk to u becoz u r a hater of islam , u hide the truth , and u dont want to be objective about ur texts , that the christians themselves knows that its not the originals , so peace be upon u man and may allah guide u , u hav many hatred in ur heart try to be peaceful
this moon god is an invention by some christians, there is not moon god in islam , ask a specialist of religon , not a muslim if u dont want, becoz u dont believe us, ask any specialist in a university, or simply read the quran , anyone who associate allah with any creation , like for example the sun , a human (jesus) , the moon , any creation , is not a muslim .
we say that u r not believers u chritsians becoz u r asssociating a creation which is jesus peace be upon him with allah, in fact the jews r believers for us becoz they dont associate any creation with god , and the jews says this about us too. our concept of god is perfect , no association with any creation , if u dont know this about islam , so dont talk about anything in islam coz u r an ignorant ,
you know no truth of Jesus. you have no history, no document no witness. nothing of Jesus and do not forget it. you know nothing of Jesus but only that which a corupt book has told you.
im not lying , im learning to u my religion , becoz u dont know anything about it and u r insulting us, u r lying becoz all ur information r from people who hate islam. i told u , u dont believe me so go in a university, in a faculty of theology and ask them about the god of islam , or simply read the quran. but dont say something which no muslim believe and all the muslims will reject. thats the most hypocrisy i ever seen in my life . think about ur behaviour,jesus dont like the way u r talking
oh i kow your learning me tyour religion. but im not interested in learning about a lie. i have the truth, the undiscriminated truth and nothing but the truth....supplied to me by the Romans....remember? the romans that has 1 billion more followers than the moon god. hahaha go back to your books. your right. Jesus would not like to know you are telling lies about how he make birds out of clay
u still lie about islam , look , i didnt tell u be interested. u told something wrong about isla, i corrected it, u still saying a lie , i corrected it , and u still sayin a lie ,lol if ur religion was true , u will not lie , salam, and thank u for showing me how the christians r hypocrites
i told u what means and uthamnic quran , u still lie , i believe its the words of god , u believe the bible is the words of god , thats all , and to know that the gospels r not written by jesus and there is no one who was living at the time of jesus that we hav hs gospel its enough for me , and the trinity, and all these imaginary things r enough ffor me to believe in the only one god, the creator of the heavens an the earth , and who is completly separated by the creation .
we hav different believe , i respect the christians, but u dont respect me and u r lying about allah , i told u who is allah , u still sayin lies, thats all , peace be upon u, may allah guide u
i know who is Uthman. i am saying you are a liar. because you say you have Muhammad quran and you do not. you do not have the original. thats why. you do not respect christains because you book talk degradingly about non muslims. do not make things up...stop trying to be peacful. follow your qurans instructions. you must not take non belives are friends, they are only interested in eachother remember.
the Gospels are not Written by God and neither is the Quran, it was written by Uthman
u dont read the quran , as i told u i dont talk to a hater, who dont want to hav an objective discution ,and is an ignorant about islam , who dont want to know about islam , and who his only will is to insult muslims, allah , and muhamad thats all
it cant be allahs quran. firstly allah does not exist and well...the original quran has been lost, destroyed and changed. your uthmans memories were very poor
The Qur'an is the 100% word of Allah without a doubt. It is full of scientific facts, that is why we see many scientists today reverting to Islam. I quote from a scientist who is a former atheist that reverted to Islam "The Qur'an is not human knowledge" the people at the time of uthman's memory was not poor rather they where extrodinary they could memorise anything of any length and this well known.
your only a parrot repeating what all your brothers say but the fact remains that the quran is not 100% from allah and if it is 100% from allah then even your God does not know about Christianity.
5:73 They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity
christians do not say God is 1 of 3 and all your scientific facts, embrio, iron, center of the earth have been destroyed. thankfuly due to the publicity of Islam it is being exposed
5:74 Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful
we do turn to God for Forgivness...Jesus forgave and is most merciful. thanks to quran for confirming that only God forgives and is merciful as was Jesus Christ
no what you have done is showen how your quran contradicts itsself because no man can forgive only God can forgive. Muslims only ask God for forgivness as do Christians but Jesus forgave through his time on earth and he give the ultimate forgivness by dying on the cross shedding blod and rising again as only God can do
You are mistaken my friend: No where in the Qur'an does it say Jesus is still alive and on this earth it says he was raised into heaven! or do you believe you can die in heaven?
The Qur'an does not say Jesus can forgive any human being. Or a human being can forgive another human being.
If you think otherwise bring me a single verse from the Qur'an.
his works, his ministries, his testimonies, his names, his claims, his works. we were given the power of thought to learn and we can understand ourself
(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
gate whats the point of all those verses...only an idiot who has not taken the time to study what the verses mean would post them thats why even the scholars and people debaiting on the video dont use those verses becayse they prove that Jesus is God when you read them in context. thank you! yes you are right..Jesus Christ was crucified. your right again
NO!! i was meant to write more but i couldnt and why arent you replying to my messages? Jesus was not crucified, neither was he killed if he was then:
there are countless witnesses, documents, books confirming his death on the crucifiction but your Allah could only provide us with 1 verse. your so deceived.
but wait a minute, now you are saying that Jesus was on the Cross but he just didnt die...yet the kuran said he was not on the cross. your seriously confused. you will never be able to prove Islam. because its False. you can speculate all you want about Jesus the real Christ
Listen i will prove to you using your own bible that jesus was not crucified just give me your email and we debate there because this doesnt allow to many characters, now if you know christianity is the truth then take me on my challenge... you never reply to my emails you afraid?
your 18...that just confims your lack of knowledge. ill tel you one last thing....dont follow the 'line' when you find some information...investigate it and investigate if further. dont just copy and paste somthing to use it as an argument because its suits you and your purpose. good luck in finding the truth. amen
See this i new it you would sya this just because i am 18 doesnt matter about lack of knowledge when i preach to people older than me they are shocked of what i tell them and i even give them references there 8 year olds out there with the entire quran in their head memorised. and good luck to you finding the truth as Jesus said search for the truth and the truth shall free you...
G2T i am not shocked at anything you have written, infact you have taught me nothing of Islam nor have you put up a debate. do you know what we are doing now....we are having the 'last word' competition. the entire quran memorised is not a miracle....its practise. open your mind. there are greater things. you know what...memorise the 99 names of allah and you will be guarenteed entry to paradise you dont need to memorise the quran
Yeah well lets have a debate then you seem to have an open mind and its hard to find a christian with an open mind these days and corse its not a miracle but thats not the point im tryna make out
"Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction and error."
secondly about the word Allah , ask an arab christian , the word Allah means the only one god
in fact the arabic in the hebrew language hav many similarity , in the thora the name of god is ELOH , its not a name in fact its a word which mean god , in arabic its the same its Allah, the same word with a different pronunciation , illah means a god , allah means the only one god
othman was living in the time of the prophet he was an apostle so why r u sayin that he is a liar? what happend is that the prophet wanted the quran to be written when he was living so , many people was writting it and reading and learning it when he was living and after his death the copies written by the presence of the prophet was with abu bakr the first calif of islam so uthman take the original of abubakr and written it again thats all , and
the european r not real christian, no one of u is followin christianity, u just believe that jesus will save u and that u love god but where is ur proofs that u love him ? jesus told u to follow the commads of god the 10 commands do u follow it? u just follow the first , even the second which tell u to dont draw things in ur churches u dont follow it
the fact is that the quran was learned by many people , no one said in anytime that the quran is corrupted , if it was so someone of the learner of the quran who learned it from the mouth of the prophet will protest , but everyone was agree
what???? the Jews and christians questioned muhammad continiously about his revelations. to which muhammad had them killed along with the poets who mocked him who were then told
those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom [9:61] lol in other words, dont ask him too many questions because he doesnt know
u believe in the old testament, and u say that god who is talking in the old testament is jesus, if u dont know that so i dont know where do u come from , all the christians know this so u believe that jesus said this , ur god told this so ur god is a criminal
when u cannot answer to something , u insults the other , no one have to preach against chritianity, u r doing it by urself lol , and think about mithra, his birth the 25 of december, the cross and the trinity of the romans ;)
this implies it was a punishment... allah could have also take his life without killing him right? but anyway.. i agree with u this debate is not really interesting
and about the original sin u ha to know that in islam there is no original sin , and eve didnt told to adam to eat from the tree, so islam made freedom for every human being , and for women , we r not punished by god because of what adam and eve did
lets just move on its not really worth to discuss about this debate anyway and ur point about that the boy was killed before his sin to save him from his sin is a interesting thought so i give u that ok
in fact i think the christian scholars agrees with with point too , :) i know many christians and i hav a friend his father is a priest and i saw the film i talked to u about with them , so think about it, its the essential meaning of a religion , the trust u put in ur god :)
no , for the point of view of someone who dont believe that allah makes for u the best , so its a punishment, but in reality its a mercy for him and for his family . read the story in the quran and u will understand, u know we muslims believe in the entire knowledge of allah , u know he decides that there wil be a war in irak, so it is, im not by sayin this , sayin that the war is good, but allah knows better than me and than every one , and when he decides i cannot say no to the past
i dont remember exaclty the stroy and how exactly he died , but its not important how u die .
see for example there is a story too in the quran and in the bible, when abraham decides to kill his son , because allah told him to do it. u believe in this story dont u ? it was a test , to see if abraham and his son r entierly submitted to him or not
that its ridiculous for allah to punish people for their future sin.. that boy did not even know about the sin he would make somewhere in the future
imagine that we all would go to jail before we robbed a store ? u get punished after ur crime and not before it ...
before allah created that boy, allah knew he would sin in the future.. so allah creates a boy and then he orders a prophet to kill that boy for a sin that he would make in the future
look i will explain u , u see u talk about jail , so at first u r talkin about a punishment. when someone die in islam , its not a punishment, its the will of allah , thats all, and thats in christianity too, and when u r talking about a jail u r talking by human judges, but allah is not a human , he is allah the all knowing, there is a very interesting film made by a christian about the 10 commands, u must see it , it will show this too in christianity the name of the film is "the decalogue" ,
Allah is All-knowing he knows what is better for u , if he decides something thats mean that its better for humanity . (im tryin to explain to u ur own religion lol plz try to understand ). or r u angry against allah when u see that there was a natural cataclism , where many people died? he decided it, thats all
lol no u decides to do something good or wrong, u pray to allah to guide u thats all . dont be stupid, if u didnt read the quran , u cannot say this, coz the response of sami is clear , or maybe u r blind so i cannot help u .
thanks to allah im a muslim , i dont believe in a religion which was a roman religion , who had too a trinity , there god was mithra and his symbol was a cross too, i dont understnd how the christian leaved the teaching of jeesus and still believe what paul said to them
oh my god,i just saw a little part of the video,this christian karim is so stupid, about predestination the quran says "Has there not been over man a period of time,when he was not a thing worth mentioning?(1)Verily,We have created man from Nutfah (drops) of mixed semen (sexual discharge of man and woman),in order to try him,so We made him hearer and seer.(2)VERILY,WE SHOWED HIM THE WAY,WHETHER HE BE GRATEFUL OR UNGRATEFUL (3)" (sourate Al-insan) .
The child was lucky to be killed as he goes to the paradise because he was killed.
Let the Christian concour the world and all those things from Bible will be implied without any hesitation. We know the bloody history of it. That;s where the real Terrorism is - in Christianity, in the Bible.
Bible makes fun of almost all of the prophets and their families.
why r u sayin its a punishment? u didnt read the stroy , and u r only talkin about 1 boy, when in the bible , manyy and manyyyy more children r killed, without any reason, and in this debate we just see this hypocrite man karim , insulting sami , thats the only thing he is doing durin the debate ,he is so stupid so so stupid , he is just not able to debate
and what about ur original sin ? accordin to ur law every child who die with the original sin will go in hell. only from a few years the church changes this law. in islam every child who die , will go to heaven . so this child God kew that if he grow he will be a sinner so he died when he was a child and so he will go to paradise , its a mercy for him and his family. stop hypocrisy , this man karim is talkin durin more than 1 hour, and he is not able to bring only 1 argument, LOL
go to heaven.. in christianity we are punished for our own sins and repent from our own sins not the sins of adam and eve.. original sin simply means that we are here on earth and not in paradadise where adam and eve were before they sinned
now regarding this instance with the boy ur saying that boy went to paradise.. but u dont know that.. & why allah kills a kid that has not even sinned yet? normally u get punished after u sinned not for future sins
lol allah didnt kill a baby , u to will die one day , its allah who want us all to die , when he decides , its the same in all monotheistic religion , and about original sin , brother, go study ur religion , lol u dont know nothing about the original sin , and read about when the church decided that the children who die will go to heaven, thn we will talk
or if the day when u will die came so go to god and ask him why did u die u didnt want to die LMAO , plz be objective this man karim is an ignorant man, i know many christians, and many things about christianity, and i've never seen a christian stupid as him
1 hour and a half , wasting people's time because of his stupidity , this debate could be very interesting . but he didnt say anything, he just showed his ignorance, and by defending him , u show that all u want to do is attackin islam without any knowledge , as he wants u to do , many christians agree with the fact that he is stupid at sure.
the only point karam stayed with his point is because sami didnt get it..
so why would allah create a boy while allah knew he would sin but create him anyway and then orders the prophet to kill that boy before he even made the sin?
allah is the creator of that boy and because allah knew that boy would sin.. allah is eventually responsible when he created that boy because allah knew he would sin in the future but still allah created him.. so allah is the one to blaim thats the point of karim
Narrated Al-Mughira: I heard the Prophet saying, "Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 2.378, cf. 1.106-108)
prove to the readers that muhammad was a pedophile? prove to the readers that muhammad fits the traits of a pedophile and that you can prove that Aisha was a child and not a woman.
is somone going to answer Muslimscroungers question?....was muhammad a pedophile for marrying a child at the age of 6 and having sex with her at the age of 9
simple, can you give me the legal definition of pedophilia during that time particular time period? or are we going by todays standards and applying them to back then??
allow me to explain.
For many noble-born or royal women, marriage could and often did take place at a young age. There are many instances or very young girls being betrothed and married under the age of 10 years old.
Puberty (and thus menstruation / periods) usually takes place between the ages of 10yo and 16yo.
"Most girls start their first periods at about 12 or 13; however some girls may have periods by the age of 8 and still others may not have a period until they are 14 or 15."(Source: About Women's Health).
At the time when we have our first period or "menarche", we are crossing the line from girlhood to womanhood
As a medical diagnosis, it is defined as a psychological disorder in which an adult experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children.The disorder is frequently a feature of persons who commit child sexual abuse. thats what it means now and thats what it ment then. jews christians and muslims who had sex with children were/are peadophiles. puberty/menstration counts for noithng. my gf had her first period at 9. does not mean she was ready for sex or marrage at that age or younger
You are totally ignoring my question, where is the definition that applied back then?? or will you simply just repeat yourself.
To argue further, you said "a sexual preference" can you please provide me with other "under age" marriages that m'med had? see my point? or are you just wanting to find a way to slay a religious figure?
there is no defination that is backdated, i belive wiki wasnt about then. however im not looking to find a way ro slay a religious figure. we find and know that under age sex was not popular otherwise it would have been the norm. under age sex only happened because of the power of man over women. they fulfilled their desires and who was to stop them.other powerful men who most probably also had the same desire?as a religious figure, he was to set an example for men to folow/control their desires
Theodora Comnena was aged 13yo when she was married King Baldwin III of Jerusalem (1158). Agnes of France was 12yo when, widowed, she was married to Andronicus Comnenus, Byzantine Emperor (1182).
St Elizabeth of Portugal aged 12yo when she was married to King Denis of Portugal. Caterina Sforza was betrothed aged 9yo, married aged 14yo, and gave birth aged 15yo.Lucrezia Borgia was married to her first husband aged 13yo Beatrice d'Este was betrothed aged 5yo and married aged 15yo.
thanks for confirming my point. men with power who want what they desire. it doesnt make it right.
btw there is a big difference from 13/14/15 to 9 year old. at 9 year old, even when a girl has her period, she is not developed. she is simply starting her puberty. she is still a child and can infact be damaged mentally and physically
again show me back then the evidence to support that?, also if the political figures of history was doing it what makes you think is was not the norm for the general puble again evidence please?
can you provide evidence that aisha was mentally and physically damaged? or did she love the prophet and he loved her and was a valid long term marriage?
yes we know that aisha was damages...she was unable to have any children to the prophet muhammad. i did not say that aisha was damaged. im saying that underage sex CAN damage.
sorry i dont have any evidences for the other at the moment
its not a game, its fact. If Jesus was Gay, it would have been documented. or you think that would have been one of the things removed from the bible.
Why should Jesus being God (or in Islam jesus being a prophet) have the need to afirm the fact that he was hetrosexual or gay. sorry i dont understand what your getting at
you know exactly, if your evidence to support m'med was a pedophile is through his actions, then by the way of Jesus actions i can show the possibility he was gay? see my point? by the way there is a difference between the christian jesus and the islamic prophet Issa.
did Jesus have sex with men? do we know that Jesus had sex with men? tell me, i did not know this
we know that muhammd had sex with a 9 year old. we know that muhammad had the sexual strength of 30 men, do we know that muhammad raped. do we know that muhammad had 13 wifes and concubines. do we know that muhammad had sex with his maid. do we know that muhammad had sex with his antie. yes.
isnt all evidence backed up with somones actions. its proving those actions and in this carse there is
who is karim?
khalilrabee 8 months ago
He saying Quran is ok because it say same in Bible.
QURAN IS EVIL... but that's ok because he say bible is.
RETARDED MUSLIM! HE killed ISLAM. Bible dont mather.... ISLAM IS KILLED!
chrstilen5 11 months ago
@chrstilen5 You are desperately trying to defend your boyfriend Karim, but there is nothing you can do as he was obviously "burned" in this debate, so stop spreading your Anti-Islamic stupidities and sell falafel with "Christian Prince."
AngelofAllah2007 1 month ago
@AngelofAllah2007 No I'm not. I'm just stating the fact. That your Islam man said, that the Quran is evil. By saying the bible is the same as the Quran and that the bible was evil.
If they are the same (In that subject) and the Bible is evil. Then that makes Islam evil.
Now we can debate if the Bible realy says the evil stuff that the Quran says. But we allredy proven the Quran to be shit. ^_^
But I dont realy care about the bible. Have Fun with your crap book
chrstilen5 1 month ago
@chrstilen5 Hahahahaha, nice garbage you came up with Christian in Atheist clothing, sure, if you didn't give a damn about any of the books, then what are you doing here? :D All Sami said is that Karim is showing his double standards, he keeps saying "Muhammad killed" and the fact is, the people in the Bible killed as well.
AngelofAllah2007 1 month ago
sami destroyed that guy
izlamiztruth 11 months ago
i think Imam Shafi once said "i could debate 1000 man of knowledge n win,n debate an ignorant man n lose" ....i think that applies here :D........way to go Sami!! n i don't know how could u bear listening 2 this person?!!
HIMAZZZ1991 1 year ago
1.John 1:41
The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him,
"We have found the Messiah" (that is, the Christ).
1 John 5:20
We know also that the Son of God has come and has given
us understanding, so that we may know him who is true.
And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ.
He is the true God and eternal life.
Glory2inri 1 year ago
@princepure NO IT IS NOT R U DEAF??? LOL
moLeOnPoT 1 year ago
if dirty mohammad can be a prophet,then I am god.
asifmasih1 1 year ago
@asifmasih1 and if your god than i must be your dad
exposemyfoes 1 year ago
More verses which teach divine decree in Bible:
Psalm 139:16: NIV:
"your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."
Psalm 139:16: New Living Translation:
"You saw me before I was born. Every day of my life was recorded in your book. Every moment was laid out before a single day had passed."
The Arab guy was appealing to emotion and anger throughout the whole debate, thus attacking his own Biblical belief.
itcrowdfan92 1 year ago
You should be asking the real question... Is FAKE Mohammad really a prophet? Or did He invented his own brand of religion using parts and parcel of other religious text to advantage his wealth and social standings and be able to enjoy the sexual joys this world has to give? He is illiterate, a bandit, a sexaul pervert, a murderer and an opportunist... By being the last prophet does make him special? Mohammad's lifestyle is a joke what makes him so great? LOL
shcoke2 1 year ago
@shcoke2 cant expect u to respect our beloved prophet when u christians dont even respect your own prophets look at all the dirty accusations against the prophets in the bible and the one prophet who's character u didnt assasinate u turned him into god your a joke
exposemyfoes 1 year ago
@exposemyfoes Allah need dumbells like yourself to kill for him and bomb for him cos he is powerless. My God Yahweh (I Am Who Am) can do it Himself and can stuck down anyone from anywhere. Your Quran permit you to lie, instructs you to Kill all Infidels (enemy of Allah who are non believers) Mohamad told me to tell you to stip the bombing of Christians cos your fake heaven is running out of virgins... LOL....
shcoke2 1 year ago
Stop jumping to the bible,stop jumping the bible hahahaa..skeleton in the closet
siddqqeeutube 1 year ago
This is not Christian Prince
moLeOnPoT 1 year ago
@moLeOnPoT yes it is
princepure1 1 year ago
Comment removed
tryingtobegood1 1 year ago
How amazing was the Lord’s way in His urgent call to Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO from Cebu Philippines , a pilot of Aviation Security
Command (AVSECOM) from Cebu City that 1993. He caused the 40-year-old Stanley to go into
a deathly coma! And during that time when His doctors had proclaimed him “clinically dead”, Stanley VILLAVINCENCIO had encountered the Lord Jesus, the Divine Mercy in Paradise, who told him to “go back to the world for a mission.”
this is the evidence that Jesus is God
austriaheute 1 year ago
@austriaheute y do u call me good their is none good but god alone now i wonder who said that
exposemyfoes 1 year ago
This arab christian was pathetic hahaha he only had 1 arguement which sami destroyed 30 times LOL
0ptimusbible 1 year ago
LOL. THAT WAS GREAT. THE CHRISTIAN GUY LOST BADLY, HE WOULDVE HAD MORE OF A CHANCE OF WINNING IF HE HAD JUST SATYED SILENT THROUGH OUT THE ENTIRE DEBATE.
cinista2002 1 year ago
which god are u talking about?>? we dont worship the same god MUSLIM, get it thru ur thick SKULL!!!!!, Ur allah dont have a son, our God of the bible has a son, John 3:16, so dont tell me MUSLIM!!!!!, u dont know wat u mean, shave ur beard, its scaring me!!!, I DEBUNK ur claims we worship the same God, why wud i want to worship sum ugly face arab god, YUCK!!!!!!!!!!!
1Waddup 1 year ago
their is only one islam but christianity has more than one million versions and still more are beeing made and if you really cant decide one type of christianity for the entire christian world i would have to agree that this is a problem,because if you are saying that christianity is the right path i would have to ask you wich one of many christianinties are you reffering to,seriously.
obeada 1 year ago
@obeada i must correct you, the prophet(saw) said there would be 72 sects of christians and 73 sects of muslims so dont use this as an arguement it is weak and not based on quran and sunnah. be careful of such claims.
naliakbar 1 year ago
@naliakbar
is it true 72 sects will go to hell? i heard something like that?
MuslimRevolutionist 1 year ago
@MuslimRevolutionist yes there will be 73 sects of muslims and of them 72 will go to hell, does not mean that they will stay in hell, but they will go to hell based on innovation into religion etc. hope that answers your question.
naliakbar 1 year ago
@obeada if you are saying that christianity is the right path i would have to ask you wich one of many christianinties are you reffering to,seriously.
REPLY -U are confused.Being under a label of christianity ,we all share a common belief ie JESUS IS THE WORD INCARNATE IE GOD.Thus ,we dont have a proble as suggest.Its the paractise that differs.Catholics concerntrate of traditional ritual of the sacrement. ( 30mins )n surmon (15mins ).Gospel churches practise hymn worship n surmon.( equal time )
Lancerlot100 5 months ago
wtf is up with all the comments about th kuran,the kuran has never been changed or missed with in any way,but the bible on the other hand has more than a thousand versions, hay i am just saying
obeada 1 year ago
ya its investigateislam he has ben exposed on every point he made.
DrXoz 1 year ago
@DrXoz u want to blieve u can b outside Christianity and worship God? oh no ,the bible says u cant drink from the cup of God and from cup of devils(islum,yea slum). We will never accept islum,u can blieve u worship God of the Bible for all u want, but the BIBLE condemns u muslims. Islum is the anti-christ. it denies Christ death and his authourity. The Bible puts accurse on muslims for tryn to pervet the bible
Gal 1:6 .AMEN
1Waddup 1 year ago
is this christian prince it sounds alot like him
MuhammadTakbir 1 year ago
Yeah, it's him, the Potato prince..
AnInvitationToTheTru 1 year ago
thats was @ secula4eva
Johnybway 2 years ago
karim said "dont ever bring up the bible again"..and his reason was.."i will debate Muhammad".."not christian". he was too scared to debate about the bible. It wasnt because he wanted to debate muhammad.
omgodsword 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@omgodsword u want to blieve u can b outside Christianity and worship God? oh no ,the bible says u cant drink from the cup of God and from cup of devils(islum,yea slum). We will never accept islum,u can blieve u worship God of the Bible for all u want, but the BIBLE condemns u muslims. Islum is the anti-christ. it denies Christ death and his authourity. The Bible puts accurse on muslims for tryn to pervet the bible
Gal 1:6 .AMEN
1Waddup 1 year ago
Moh lied about Jesus he said Jesus did not die
If Jesus did not die and if he was not raised from the dead on the third daythen Jesus was a false prophet
Yet according to Islam Jesus was a true prophet! Prophets do not miss in their predictions. Therefore, if Moh said Jesus did not die/not raised from the dead, he is a false prophet! If as Muslims claim, Jesus was a true prophet, how come Moh and his do not follow his teachings?
Quran falsehood, contains falsehood, and ends with falsehood.
secula4eva 2 years ago
dont talk jibberish and show the qoute u wanker like all good people do
Johnybway 2 years ago
Jesus Christ has returned. I AM.
IAMJESUSmovie 2 years ago
Karim...wtf mate? This was terrible Karim. I can't believe he even got the opportunity to debate Sami Zaatari.
oombuddah 2 years ago 10
@oombuddah we dont care wat u think about our bible, at least we are not obsess with ur koran, why is every muslim obsess with the bible and has a bible to prove something false from it, the rapist mo in the bible? PURLZZ, islum is the joke of this world and will always b. anytime u copy from another religion's book, u a JOKE!!! and we all laughing at islum, hahahahahahahahahaa, child molester u follow and u proud of it?SHAME!!!
1Waddup 1 year ago
kareem, after this Hot shower u take it from sami, u should not make us hear ur ugly voice again.. go sell falafel more better for u
fajralislam72 2 years ago 14
@fajralislam72 u want to blieve u can b outside Christianity and worship God? oh no ,the bible says u cant drink from the cup of God and from cup of devils(islum,yea slum). We will never accept islum,u can blieve u worship God of the Bible for all u want, but the BIBLE condemns u muslims. Islum is the anti-christ. it denies Christ death and his authourity. The Bible puts accurse on muslims for tryn to pervet the bible
Gal 1:6 .AMEN
1Waddup 1 year ago
@1Waddup
my dear,I already believe that there is bible came down from GOD, but for any Bible u invite me exactly..,Any version ?!
When you book become a reliable and not subject to increase or decrease,Then it can be invoked
fajralislam72 1 year ago
@fajralislam72 we dont care wat u think about our bible, at least we are not obsess with ur koran, why is every muslim obsess with the bible and has a bible to prove something false from it, the rapist mo in the bible? PURLZZ, islum is the joke of this world and will always b. anytime u copy from another religion's book, u a JOKE!!! and we all laughing at islum, hahahahahahahahahaa, child molester u follow and u proud of it? SHAME!!!
1Waddup 1 year ago
@1Waddup
my sweet heart, really im unsure if u care to invite people to ur holly book or u are only interested in contempt of other people's beliefs.. coz i know, this is not the way of Christ-PBUH-,right?
fajralislam72 1 year ago
@fajralislam72 He told us to tear down false religion , and islum is false, a copy cat religion with a copy cat book, islum will always be a joke cus its not real,,hahaha
1Waddup 1 year ago
@1Waddup
ok, I became sure now (-
fajralislam72 1 year ago
@fajralislam72 ppls turn from the wicked religion islam
1Waddup 1 year ago
@fajralislam72 Hahahahahha, go sell falafel, good one :D Karim is the worst piece of garbage you could ever encounter. He loves boasting of his "vast knowledge" in facebook where he calls himself "Christian Prince." He also loves promoting books with hate speec of Muslims and even considers himself a deity, since he claimed "No Muslim is knowledgeable enough to defeat me in a debate" You know very PROUD and stuff, but Sami was able to shut him as he has done to other hateful Zionists.
AngelofAllah2007 1 month ago
The Jews wanted to stone Jesus many times "Why?" because he claimed to be GOD.
Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
teethofthelamb 2 years ago
those who say Sami lost U propably cant dont understand english or ur retarded
DrXoz 2 years ago
Allah did NOT make us do ANYTHING, but Allah gave us a free will to do right and wrong, and already knew what we were going to do, and millions of Christians believe in this.
The "free will" is a test for humans whether or not they follow God. IF God stopped are free will, we would NEVER be able to sin, but we would be like angels and the purpose of life would be meaningless.
That's what the Christian guy doesn't want to understand, YET Christians believe in the same thing.
itcrowdfan92 2 years ago
The christian dude is getting owned
kerokage123 2 years ago 2
you wish. sami talked noncence. OWNED hahah damn loser. you didnt even listen to it all
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
that sami is the biggest idiot ever. ANSWER THE POINTS RAISED TO YOU SAMI!!
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
all the christians r only showing there ignorance about the history , read! as the quran told
"read" is the first word which was revealed to uhamad peace be upon him , if every christian read the history before christianity and especialy the history of the romans religion and mithra who was born a 25 of december, they will leave christianity, or they will maybe try to find the real story of jesus peace be upon him , which is in the quran
peace be upon u
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
idiot. READ is the first word revealed to muhammad but it is the LAST chapter in the quran. thank you for proving that the quran has been corupted!
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
lol no its not the last chapter of the quran , thank u for showing ur ignorance ;)
but the order of the chapters r not the order of the revelation , there is no problem , but for people like u who r tryin to hide the truth about ur mithra jesus god , its a problem , sure! becoz islam is the truth , and u r showing ur violance u christians ,
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
yes, we are all aware that the order of the revelations have been changed and added to coinside with the actions of muhammad. no prophesy there. we all know there is 'no problem' that the order of the revelations have been altered. because the quran is a coruption. christian violence? where in the NT the message from God is the violence?
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
when u talk to me u insults me , thats violence, the reality and u know it is that the order of the chapters is not important, and if it was corrupted u will not find the perfection of the mathematical miracles of the quran, the repetition of the words , like woman and man 23 time the word man and 23 time the word woman, 365 time the word day , etc etc u can find it i think on internet, but u now u make me laugh u know why? becoz if someone hav to talk about a coruption of a book the last people
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
insult are violence???IDIOTA!!! your whole comic book is an insult to non muslims. you stage all jihadic (struggle) against anyone. and as for your roman claim. NO ONE belives in your nonsence. even the late liar DEEDAT didnt use romans because its a lie. the bibles ruled before Romans. shame on you. shame on you for your lies and your deceit. shame on you for following a coruption of the bibles that isnt even in its original form. you follow OTHMANS quran. your claim to prefect word is a LIE
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
its not a lie , read abpout it its not the muslims who told it its christians who tried to find the truth , when u will be able to accept the truth of the history we will talk mister italian , u dont know who is othman ok , all u r tryin to do is to say that he changed the words of the quran , u r not objective read the history, and as i told u ur bible is written by many mayn people, and is the traduction of the traduction of the traduction
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
who can talk about it is the christians, with their many problem with differences about many story in each gospel its a little different, and u hav many version of the bible , some of u hav 66 books , other hav 72 books, u r debating about the real words said by jesus, u dont know what is the truth and what is not, and u come to us muslims who only hav 1 version of the quran, and u told us we hav a corupted book LOL ,
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
and there is in some museum the ancient manuscripts of the quran for example of ali the cousin of the prophet , in the museum of najaf in irak
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
and u talk about violence , oh yes u hav many violence in the bible, when the jews wnt to palestine, ur god told them to kill every women every child and every man , except the vergin women, and to keep these vergin for them , what is more violent than this? ah and how can more than 2000 years ago people know that a women is vergin or not???
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
the JEWs are not CHRISTIAN idiot!!
now what verse do you talk about liar? what verse you talk about? you forget about how your quran has been corupted? how the first revelation is READ but it is somwhere else, lost in the false quran???
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
of the traduction of the greek manuscript , u dont hav the originals, and there is many contradiction in the bible , many! and all of this r inspiration LOL
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
what??? what world do you live in?? yes...we do have the ORIGINAL manuscipts. what planet you are from?
you are a liar. your muslims tried to show christians and persians the truth by WAR. Islam took PERSIA. Islam took ROME. Islam took EUROPE. but Allah was defeated and pushed back to where you started. this is your perfection. WAR. you dont know uthman. your 'original' quran was burned. now you read a copy....COPY!!
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
realy? loooooool u hav the originals? lol u r realy an ignorant , plz ask ur priest u have not the originals, but u say that the people who write it was inprirated by the holy ghost
i dont lie im a muslim , but u lie u know why ? becoz in ur bible paul says that its not a problem to lie if its for defending his god
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
my Allah man,. you never hear of the dead sea scrolls right. you poor student. Allah really have deceived you. and yes you are a muslims, and the nation of Islam is a Lie!!
where paul said its okay to lie. i want to see
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
the dead see scrolls r not originals, they r copy too, and in fact the dead sea scrolls says that there is a liar, someone who told that he is preaching the true religion but in fact he corrupted it, and many of ur scholars thinks that its paul , who ftried to make the romans accepting his religion by taking some things of the pagan religion of the romans, read the history man
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
hahaha yes yse..the dead sea scrolls were written by the JEW. everything bad was the JEW. all the JEW did it. lets blame the JEW. oh no wait...not only the Jew but the ROMANS?? yes so...everything was the JEW and the ROMANS. you knwo whats great....the ROMANS DEFEATED ALLAH!!!!
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
u r an ignorant man , Allah is the god of the muslims and the christians, its the arabic name of "the only one god" in the arabic bible the name of god is allah , u r insulting ur god!
in fact i will not talk to u becoz u r a hater of islam , u hide the truth , and u dont want to be objective about ur texts , that the christians themselves knows that its not the originals , so peace be upon u man and may allah guide u , u hav many hatred in ur heart try to be peaceful
salam
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
no you are ignorant. Allah is the moon God kept in the kababh. you are ignorant because you have given God a NAME
the is no GOD but ALLAH.
the is no GOD but GOD
your better not to talk because you have taught me nothing! i have no hatred, i hope you will find Jesus our LORD but you prefer not too
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
i know the turth about jesus and i follow him and all the prophets, but u reject a prophet from god and thtas not good
i will explain it too u becoz u r a real ignorant man im a muslim ok , so i know my god more than u , as u know ur god more than me,
allah is the god of the heaven and the earth , he is above everything , read the quran , u will know it.
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
this moon god is an invention by some christians, there is not moon god in islam , ask a specialist of religon , not a muslim if u dont want, becoz u dont believe us, ask any specialist in a university, or simply read the quran , anyone who associate allah with any creation , like for example the sun , a human (jesus) , the moon , any creation , is not a muslim .
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
we say that u r not believers u chritsians becoz u r asssociating a creation which is jesus peace be upon him with allah, in fact the jews r believers for us becoz they dont associate any creation with god , and the jews says this about us too. our concept of god is perfect , no association with any creation , if u dont know this about islam , so dont talk about anything in islam coz u r an ignorant ,
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
you know no truth of Jesus. you have no history, no document no witness. nothing of Jesus and do not forget it. you know nothing of Jesus but only that which a corupt book has told you.
the moon God is YOUR god. stop lying!
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
im not lying , im learning to u my religion , becoz u dont know anything about it and u r insulting us, u r lying becoz all ur information r from people who hate islam. i told u , u dont believe me so go in a university, in a faculty of theology and ask them about the god of islam , or simply read the quran. but dont say something which no muslim believe and all the muslims will reject. thats the most hypocrisy i ever seen in my life . think about ur behaviour,jesus dont like the way u r talking
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
oh i kow your learning me tyour religion. but im not interested in learning about a lie. i have the truth, the undiscriminated truth and nothing but the truth....supplied to me by the Romans....remember? the romans that has 1 billion more followers than the moon god. hahaha go back to your books. your right. Jesus would not like to know you are telling lies about how he make birds out of clay
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
u still lie about islam , look , i didnt tell u be interested. u told something wrong about isla, i corrected it, u still saying a lie , i corrected it , and u still sayin a lie ,lol if ur religion was true , u will not lie , salam, and thank u for showing me how the christians r hypocrites
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
i tell you whats lie about Islam. you say the quran is perfect unaltered word of God
its LIE. READ comes first but in QUran it doesnt
you say you have the original book from muhammad.
ITS LIE you have Uthmans Quran
thats enough for me to know i follow the true path
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
i told u what means and uthamnic quran , u still lie , i believe its the words of god , u believe the bible is the words of god , thats all , and to know that the gospels r not written by jesus and there is no one who was living at the time of jesus that we hav hs gospel its enough for me , and the trinity, and all these imaginary things r enough ffor me to believe in the only one god, the creator of the heavens an the earth , and who is completly separated by the creation .
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
we hav different believe , i respect the christians, but u dont respect me and u r lying about allah , i told u who is allah , u still sayin lies, thats all , peace be upon u, may allah guide u
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
i know who is Uthman. i am saying you are a liar. because you say you have Muhammad quran and you do not. you do not have the original. thats why. you do not respect christains because you book talk degradingly about non muslims. do not make things up...stop trying to be peacful. follow your qurans instructions. you must not take non belives are friends, they are only interested in eachother remember.
the Gospels are not Written by God and neither is the Quran, it was written by Uthman
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
u dont read the quran , as i told u i dont talk to a hater, who dont want to hav an objective discution ,and is an ignorant about islam , who dont want to know about islam , and who his only will is to insult muslims, allah , and muhamad thats all
salam
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
It is not Mohameds Quran or Uthmans Quran it is Allah's Quran revieled to Mohamed compiled by uthman Memorized by the companions.
iMuslimProd 2 years ago
it cant be allahs quran. firstly allah does not exist and well...the original quran has been lost, destroyed and changed. your uthmans memories were very poor
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
The Qur'an is the 100% word of Allah without a doubt. It is full of scientific facts, that is why we see many scientists today reverting to Islam. I quote from a scientist who is a former atheist that reverted to Islam "The Qur'an is not human knowledge" the people at the time of uthman's memory was not poor rather they where extrodinary they could memorise anything of any length and this well known.
iMuslimProd 2 years ago
your only a parrot repeating what all your brothers say but the fact remains that the quran is not 100% from allah and if it is 100% from allah then even your God does not know about Christianity.
5:73 They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity
christians do not say God is 1 of 3 and all your scientific facts, embrio, iron, center of the earth have been destroyed. thankfuly due to the publicity of Islam it is being exposed
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
5:74 Why turn they not to Allah, and seek His forgiveness? For Allah is Oft- forgiving, Most Merciful
we do turn to God for Forgivness...Jesus forgave and is most merciful. thanks to quran for confirming that only God forgives and is merciful as was Jesus Christ
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
What you have done is quoted the Quran confirming that Muslims only ask god for forgivness.
And then made a statement saying jesus forgave you but in reality he was just a man.
Your statement was not confirmed by the Qur'an at all, rather it confirmed mine.
iMuslimProd 2 years ago
no what you have done is showen how your quran contradicts itsself because no man can forgive only God can forgive. Muslims only ask God for forgivness as do Christians but Jesus forgave through his time on earth and he give the ultimate forgivness by dying on the cross shedding blod and rising again as only God can do
no human lives forever...only God is eternal
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
Sorry but where is the contradiction?
iMuslimProd 2 years ago
the contradictions are
Quran claims that Jesus lives forever and will return. but no human being lives forever thats not 'logical'
quran claims that Jesus is only a human yet humans can not forgive so why did Jesus forgive through his ministry here on Earth
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
You are mistaken my friend: No where in the Qur'an does it say Jesus is still alive and on this earth it says he was raised into heaven! or do you believe you can die in heaven?
The Qur'an does not say Jesus can forgive any human being. Or a human being can forgive another human being.
If you think otherwise bring me a single verse from the Qur'an.
iMuslimProd 2 years ago
Jesus is with us in Spirit as the comforter. i did not say Jesus is on earth. the quran said that Jesus will return at the end of days
this is where you follow a different God from Christians. Jesus forgave through his ministry and there is no doubt about that.
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
No where in the bible does it say that Jesus is god or to worship him. Without brining a metaphorical verse that is interpreted as you wish.
iMuslimProd 2 years ago
no where in the bible did Jesus say i am not God stop worshiping me and coming to me for forgiveness
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
So if Jesus never mentioned in the Bible he is god where do you get this idea from?
iMuslimProd 2 years ago
his works, his ministries, his testimonies, his names, his claims, his works. we were given the power of thought to learn and we can understand ourself
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
LOOL what a stupid excuse and then you say he got crucified
Gate2Truth 2 years ago
"My Father is greater than I."
[The Bible, John 14:28]
(ii) "My Father is greater than all."
[The Bible, John 10:29]
(iii) "I cast out devils by the Spirit of God."
[The Bible, Mathew 12:28]
(iv) "I with the finger of God cast out devils."
[The Bible, Luke 11:20]
(v) "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgement is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."
[The Bible, John 5:30]
Gate2Truth 2 years ago
gate whats the point of all those verses...only an idiot who has not taken the time to study what the verses mean would post them thats why even the scholars and people debaiting on the video dont use those verses becayse they prove that Jesus is God when you read them in context. thank you! yes you are right..Jesus Christ was crucified. your right again
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
NO!! i was meant to write more but i couldnt and why arent you replying to my messages? Jesus was not crucified, neither was he killed if he was then:
Gate2Truth 2 years ago
1.He was put on the cross and bought down very fast in 3 hours. In 3 hours its difficult for a person to die therefore Jesus was alive.
2.When he was bought down his two cross mates were alive proving even Jesus was alive
Gate2Truth 2 years ago
Jesus was not crucified?
there are countless witnesses, documents, books confirming his death on the crucifiction but your Allah could only provide us with 1 verse. your so deceived.
but wait a minute, now you are saying that Jesus was on the Cross but he just didnt die...yet the kuran said he was not on the cross. your seriously confused. you will never be able to prove Islam. because its False. you can speculate all you want about Jesus the real Christ
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
Listen i will prove to you using your own bible that jesus was not crucified just give me your email and we debate there because this doesnt allow to many characters, now if you know christianity is the truth then take me on my challenge... you never reply to my emails you afraid?
Gate2Truth 2 years ago
yap..im afraid of giving a deceied nutter like you my email.....and so what about it? so thanks for not answering anything. our conversation is over!
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
Ok fine conversation over but remember one thing knowledge removes ignorance, your 30 im 18 and your so ignorant shouldnt it be the other way round??
Gate2Truth 2 years ago
your 18...that just confims your lack of knowledge. ill tel you one last thing....dont follow the 'line' when you find some information...investigate it and investigate if further. dont just copy and paste somthing to use it as an argument because its suits you and your purpose. good luck in finding the truth. amen
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
See this i new it you would sya this just because i am 18 doesnt matter about lack of knowledge when i preach to people older than me they are shocked of what i tell them and i even give them references there 8 year olds out there with the entire quran in their head memorised. and good luck to you finding the truth as Jesus said search for the truth and the truth shall free you...
Gate2Truth 2 years ago
G2T i am not shocked at anything you have written, infact you have taught me nothing of Islam nor have you put up a debate. do you know what we are doing now....we are having the 'last word' competition. the entire quran memorised is not a miracle....its practise. open your mind. there are greater things. you know what...memorise the 99 names of allah and you will be guarenteed entry to paradise you dont need to memorise the quran
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
Yeah well lets have a debate then you seem to have an open mind and its hard to find a christian with an open mind these days and corse its not a miracle but thats not the point im tryna make out
Gate2Truth 2 years ago
"Do they not then consider the Qur'an carefully? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much contradiction and error."
Chapter 4: Verse 82
Gate2Truth 2 years ago
G2T what good is that verse. errors are being found throughout the quran. your only exposing yourself
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
secondly about the word Allah , ask an arab christian , the word Allah means the only one god
in fact the arabic in the hebrew language hav many similarity , in the thora the name of god is ELOH , its not a name in fact its a word which mean god , in arabic its the same its Allah, the same word with a different pronunciation , illah means a god , allah means the only one god
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
othman was living in the time of the prophet he was an apostle so why r u sayin that he is a liar? what happend is that the prophet wanted the quran to be written when he was living so , many people was writting it and reading and learning it when he was living and after his death the copies written by the presence of the prophet was with abu bakr the first calif of islam so uthman take the original of abubakr and written it again thats all , and
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
the european r not real christian, no one of u is followin christianity, u just believe that jesus will save u and that u love god but where is ur proofs that u love him ? jesus told u to follow the commads of god the 10 commands do u follow it? u just follow the first , even the second which tell u to dont draw things in ur churches u dont follow it
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
yayaya yes. you are professional oriental. you know all about the european man and the western man. hahaha
2nd comandment - you shall have no other gods before me
3rd - You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God
where is said not to draw on churches?? MAN you really are a liar muhammad
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
the fact is that the quran was learned by many people , no one said in anytime that the quran is corrupted , if it was so someone of the learner of the quran who learned it from the mouth of the prophet will protest , but everyone was agree
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
what???? the Jews and christians questioned muhammad continiously about his revelations. to which muhammad had them killed along with the poets who mocked him who were then told
those who annoy the Prophet there is a painful doom [9:61] lol in other words, dont ask him too many questions because he doesnt know
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
u believe in the old testament, and u say that god who is talking in the old testament is jesus, if u dont know that so i dont know where do u come from , all the christians know this so u believe that jesus said this , ur god told this so ur god is a criminal
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
hi ! Mithra worshiper
" where in the NT the message from GOD is the violence "? JESUS SAID " bring my enemies and slay them "!!!!!
are u circumcise ?
jesus didn't eat pork no alcohol he observed the sabath!!! what about you ???
BRING your proofs WHEN YOU SAID "THE CORAN IS CORRUPTED" !!
villaessaouira 2 years ago
when u cannot answer to something , u insults the other , no one have to preach against chritianity, u r doing it by urself lol , and think about mithra, his birth the 25 of december, the cross and the trinity of the romans ;)
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
theoriental dont worry i understand ur point
but the boy in this case in the quran was killed
this implies it was a punishment... allah could have also take his life without killing him right? but anyway.. i agree with u this debate is not really interesting
chillzz25 2 years ago
and about the original sin u ha to know that in islam there is no original sin , and eve didnt told to adam to eat from the tree, so islam made freedom for every human being , and for women , we r not punished by god because of what adam and eve did
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
lets just move on its not really worth to discuss about this debate anyway and ur point about that the boy was killed before his sin to save him from his sin is a interesting thought so i give u that ok
chillzz25 2 years ago
in fact i think the christian scholars agrees with with point too , :) i know many christians and i hav a friend his father is a priest and i saw the film i talked to u about with them , so think about it, its the essential meaning of a religion , the trust u put in ur god :)
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
i will watch the film.. i gotta go now
take care and god bless
chillzz25 2 years ago
ok , its a polish film "the decalogue" very interesting film , and too sensitive,
take care too :)
peace be upon u
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
no , for the point of view of someone who dont believe that allah makes for u the best , so its a punishment, but in reality its a mercy for him and for his family . read the story in the quran and u will understand, u know we muslims believe in the entire knowledge of allah , u know he decides that there wil be a war in irak, so it is, im not by sayin this , sayin that the war is good, but allah knows better than me and than every one , and when he decides i cannot say no to the past
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
i dont remember exaclty the stroy and how exactly he died , but its not important how u die .
see for example there is a story too in the quran and in the bible, when abraham decides to kill his son , because allah told him to do it. u believe in this story dont u ? it was a test , to see if abraham and his son r entierly submitted to him or not
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
and that was the whole point of karim
that its ridiculous for allah to punish people for their future sin.. that boy did not even know about the sin he would make somewhere in the future
imagine that we all would go to jail before we robbed a store ? u get punished after ur crime and not before it ...
before allah created that boy, allah knew he would sin in the future.. so allah creates a boy and then he orders a prophet to kill that boy for a sin that he would make in the future
chillzz25 2 years ago
look i will explain u , u see u talk about jail , so at first u r talkin about a punishment. when someone die in islam , its not a punishment, its the will of allah , thats all, and thats in christianity too, and when u r talking about a jail u r talking by human judges, but allah is not a human , he is allah the all knowing, there is a very interesting film made by a christian about the 10 commands, u must see it , it will show this too in christianity the name of the film is "the decalogue" ,
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
Allah is All-knowing he knows what is better for u , if he decides something thats mean that its better for humanity . (im tryin to explain to u ur own religion lol plz try to understand ). or r u angry against allah when u see that there was a natural cataclism , where many people died? he decided it, thats all
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
ah right, so if allag guides you to do bad things...its because he knows its better for you. thanks for that. makes me so proud im a Christain
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
lol no u decides to do something good or wrong, u pray to allah to guide u thats all . dont be stupid, if u didnt read the quran , u cannot say this, coz the response of sami is clear , or maybe u r blind so i cannot help u .
thanks to allah im a muslim , i dont believe in a religion which was a roman religion , who had too a trinity , there god was mithra and his symbol was a cross too, i dont understnd how the christian leaved the teaching of jeesus and still believe what paul said to them
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
he is just unable to debate
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
oh my god,i just saw a little part of the video,this christian karim is so stupid, about predestination the quran says "Has there not been over man a period of time,when he was not a thing worth mentioning?(1)Verily,We have created man from Nutfah (drops) of mixed semen (sexual discharge of man and woman),in order to try him,so We made him hearer and seer.(2)VERILY,WE SHOWED HIM THE WAY,WHETHER HE BE GRATEFUL OR UNGRATEFUL (3)" (sourate Al-insan) .
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
The christian guy is so artistic, WOW~
He should go to Hollywood in place of Jim C.
Complete failure.
The child was lucky to be killed as he goes to the paradise because he was killed.
Let the Christian concour the world and all those things from Bible will be implied without any hesitation. We know the bloody history of it. That;s where the real Terrorism is - in Christianity, in the Bible.
Bible makes fun of almost all of the prophets and their families.
gakusha76 2 years ago
karim is right, because in the case of that boy.. the boy did not commit any sin but yet allah punished that boy by killing him.
its like if u would punish ur own son for something he did not do yet..
chillzz25 2 years ago
why r u sayin its a punishment? u didnt read the stroy , and u r only talkin about 1 boy, when in the bible , manyy and manyyyy more children r killed, without any reason, and in this debate we just see this hypocrite man karim , insulting sami , thats the only thing he is doing durin the debate ,he is so stupid so so stupid , he is just not able to debate
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
and what about ur original sin ? accordin to ur law every child who die with the original sin will go in hell. only from a few years the church changes this law. in islam every child who die , will go to heaven . so this child God kew that if he grow he will be a sinner so he died when he was a child and so he will go to paradise , its a mercy for him and his family. stop hypocrisy , this man karim is talkin durin more than 1 hour, and he is not able to bring only 1 argument, LOL
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
original sin? little babies and children
go to heaven.. in christianity we are punished for our own sins and repent from our own sins not the sins of adam and eve.. original sin simply means that we are here on earth and not in paradadise where adam and eve were before they sinned
now regarding this instance with the boy ur saying that boy went to paradise.. but u dont know that.. & why allah kills a kid that has not even sinned yet? normally u get punished after u sinned not for future sins
chillzz25 2 years ago
lol allah didnt kill a baby , u to will die one day , its allah who want us all to die , when he decides , its the same in all monotheistic religion , and about original sin , brother, go study ur religion , lol u dont know nothing about the original sin , and read about when the church decided that the children who die will go to heaven, thn we will talk
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
or if the day when u will die came so go to god and ask him why did u die u didnt want to die LMAO , plz be objective this man karim is an ignorant man, i know many christians, and many things about christianity, and i've never seen a christian stupid as him
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
1 hour and a half , wasting people's time because of his stupidity , this debate could be very interesting . but he didnt say anything, he just showed his ignorance, and by defending him , u show that all u want to do is attackin islam without any knowledge , as he wants u to do , many christians agree with the fact that he is stupid at sure.
TheOrientalvoice 2 years ago
the only point karam stayed with his point is because sami didnt get it..
so why would allah create a boy while allah knew he would sin but create him anyway and then orders the prophet to kill that boy before he even made the sin?
allah is the creator of that boy and because allah knew that boy would sin.. allah is eventually responsible when he created that boy because allah knew he would sin in the future but still allah created him.. so allah is the one to blaim thats the point of karim
chillzz25 2 years ago
what an idiot christian
AnInvitationToTheTru 2 years ago
Narrated Al-Mughira: I heard the Prophet saying, "Ascribing false things to me is not like ascribing false things to anyone else. Whosoever tells a lie against me intentionally then surely let him occupy his seat in Hell-Fire." ... (Sahih al-Bukhari 2.378, cf. 1.106-108)
lol good ole muhammad covering his back again
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. (Luke 19:11-27)
This is an ALL loving God?
mmmmmmm? LOL
specialagentash 2 years ago
prove to the readers that muhammad was a pedophile? prove to the readers that muhammad fits the traits of a pedophile and that you can prove that Aisha was a child and not a woman.
you made the comment im just asking.
specialagentash 2 years ago
is somone going to answer Muslimscroungers question?....was muhammad a pedophile for marrying a child at the age of 6 and having sex with her at the age of 9
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
simple, can you give me the legal definition of pedophilia during that time particular time period? or are we going by todays standards and applying them to back then??
allow me to explain.
For many noble-born or royal women, marriage could and often did take place at a young age. There are many instances or very young girls being betrothed and married under the age of 10 years old.
specialagentash 2 years ago
Puberty (and thus menstruation / periods) usually takes place between the ages of 10yo and 16yo.
"Most girls start their first periods at about 12 or 13; however some girls may have periods by the age of 8 and still others may not have a period until they are 14 or 15."(Source: About Women's Health).
At the time when we have our first period or "menarche", we are crossing the line from girlhood to womanhood
specialagentash 2 years ago
Bianca of Savoy, Duchess of Milan was married aged 13yo (1350), and aged 14yo when she gave birth to her eldest son, Giangaleazzo (1351).
Theodora Comnena was aged 13yo when she was married King Baldwin III of Jerusalem (1158).
Agnes of France was 12yo when, widowed, she was married to Andronicus Comnenus, Byzantine Emperor (1182).
St Elizabeth of Portugal was aged 12yo when she was married to King Denis of Portugal and gave birth to three children shortly thereafter.
specialagentash 2 years ago
As a medical diagnosis, it is defined as a psychological disorder in which an adult experiences a sexual preference for prepubescent children.The disorder is frequently a feature of persons who commit child sexual abuse. thats what it means now and thats what it ment then. jews christians and muslims who had sex with children were/are peadophiles. puberty/menstration counts for noithng. my gf had her first period at 9. does not mean she was ready for sex or marrage at that age or younger
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
You are totally ignoring my question, where is the definition that applied back then?? or will you simply just repeat yourself.
To argue further, you said "a sexual preference" can you please provide me with other "under age" marriages that m'med had? see my point? or are you just wanting to find a way to slay a religious figure?
specialagentash 2 years ago
there is no defination that is backdated, i belive wiki wasnt about then. however im not looking to find a way ro slay a religious figure. we find and know that under age sex was not popular otherwise it would have been the norm. under age sex only happened because of the power of man over women. they fulfilled their desires and who was to stop them.other powerful men who most probably also had the same desire?as a religious figure, he was to set an example for men to folow/control their desires
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
not the norm?
Theodora Comnena was aged 13yo when she was married King Baldwin III of Jerusalem (1158). Agnes of France was 12yo when, widowed, she was married to Andronicus Comnenus, Byzantine Emperor (1182).
St Elizabeth of Portugal aged 12yo when she was married to King Denis of Portugal. Caterina Sforza was betrothed aged 9yo, married aged 14yo, and gave birth aged 15yo.Lucrezia Borgia was married to her first husband aged 13yo Beatrice d'Este was betrothed aged 5yo and married aged 15yo.
specialagentash 2 years ago
thanks for confirming my point. men with power who want what they desire. it doesnt make it right.
btw there is a big difference from 13/14/15 to 9 year old. at 9 year old, even when a girl has her period, she is not developed. she is simply starting her puberty. she is still a child and can infact be damaged mentally and physically
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
again show me back then the evidence to support that?, also if the political figures of history was doing it what makes you think is was not the norm for the general puble again evidence please?
can you provide evidence that aisha was mentally and physically damaged? or did she love the prophet and he loved her and was a valid long term marriage?
specialagentash 2 years ago
yes we know that aisha was damages...she was unable to have any children to the prophet muhammad. i did not say that aisha was damaged. im saying that underage sex CAN damage.
sorry i dont have any evidences for the other at the moment
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
i'll play your game,
provide me evidence that jesus WAS NOT gay
and that MOSES was not a terriorist by todays standards
im simply saying this to illustrate my point.
specialagentash 2 years ago
its not a game, its fact. If Jesus was Gay, it would have been documented. or you think that would have been one of the things removed from the bible.
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
Ok then prove to me that jesus was hetrosexual? surely something that important would be documented, or are we just assuming?
specialagentash 2 years ago
Why should Jesus being God (or in Islam jesus being a prophet) have the need to afirm the fact that he was hetrosexual or gay. sorry i dont understand what your getting at
forzaitalia2 2 years ago
you know exactly, if your evidence to support m'med was a pedophile is through his actions, then by the way of Jesus actions i can show the possibility he was gay? see my point? by the way there is a difference between the christian jesus and the islamic prophet Issa.
specialagentash 2 years ago
did Jesus have sex with men? do we know that Jesus had sex with men? tell me, i did not know this
we know that muhammd had sex with a 9 year old. we know that muhammad had the sexual strength of 30 men, do we know that muhammad raped. do we know that muhammad had 13 wifes and concubines. do we know that muhammad had sex with his maid. do we know that muhammad had sex with his antie. yes.
isnt all evidence backed up with somones actions. its proving those actions and in this carse there is