If the three laws of reason are true, if deduction is true, if mathematics is true, if division is true, if one flyaway F-22 cost 183M is true, if total program cost of 6.7B is true, and if 187 F-22s are purchased is true, then it should be true that each F-22 costs more 366,120,218.M. If the 3rd law of reason, "The Law of the Excluded Middle", is true, then this per unit cost is either true, or not true. Which is it? P.S. Does this include maintenance?
also it can't communicate with any other aircraft in the air. Australia made a computer simulated highly realistic experiment with two teams red and blue. Blue team had 400 f-18E/F 183 F-22 and 100 f-35 VS red team with 100 su-27sm 4 su-30 and 2 su-35. Results? first 20 min hundreds blue team members were downed, only 12 red team lost. f-22 and f-35 proved useless. Us lost to eurofighters in germany in redflag making excuses, and f-22 was never used in combat. sad waste of money
"People always fail to relise that every new plane will have problems, the only reason people never heard about F-15 and F-16 failures is because theres was no internet when they first came into production and I guess the media wasnt putting their noses everywhere." - galatasarayfan67 - 2 months ago
There is no doubt that the F-22 program has issues that must be addressed, especially in light of the fact that the F-35 program has similar problems that are being aggressively addressed DoD. Still I would like to point out that for all it's shortcomings every Nation in the world is trying their hardest and damndest to fallow in the F-22 footsteps. What does that say about them and the F-22 program? So for better or worse it's still the fighter to beat. It's still no#1.
Time to accept the F22 for what it is. It's over-engineered, overly delicate, overly sensitive to corrosion, ridden with fundamental refractory technological glitches and problems, and grotesquely over-expensive. It should never have seen the light of day, aside from as a technological show-case.
This is junk journalism that took some information out of context. The Su-30MK many flaws in the begining and the F-14 development was just short of an out right disaster and yet one would be an idiot to to make the claim these are shitty aircraft.
Every aircraft has growing pains and most of these pains are overcome....get over it
@ShayisWY The F-22 was recently grounded again. This time it's oxegen issues. Since January, F-22 pilots have been barred from flying above 25,000 feet, following the crash of a Raptor jet in Alaska during a training flight. The American aviation enthusiasts just won't let go I'm afraid. The F-22 project needs to be reopened if they wwant to see it in action. The USAF won't bother because they have the F-35 on the way.
@TheARMAProductions Again look at other programs - You cannot make comments such as yours without placing nothing on it in regards to how relative they are to comparable or like aircraft. Sorry you formed a conclusion and sought evidence to support without considering perspective. As mentioned, the F-14 very early on and in development had a very very high crash %,
@ShayisWY The key to your comment is you saying ' the F-14 very early on and in development had a very very high crash %,'
The F-22 is not in it's early stages of development my friend. It's supposed to be in active service. As with the EF/Rafale/Grippen the development goes back to the 80's. If all of these technical issues/crashes were occuring 10 years ago then I'd agree with what you said here. Now that the F-22 program has had it's funds cut/canx, I can't see these issues being resolved.
@TheARMAProductions You are parroting the same things over and over again which have 1) proven to be taken out of context and outright wrong. 2) you formulated a conclusion first and try to find results second 3) The fact you cite the issues with the F-22 in development creates a great conflict and contradiction with what you are stating - Essentially you have contradicted yourself.
@Shayis No I'm not. The F-22's been barred from flying above 25,000 feet as of January. This is something I found out just the other day as well as the F-22's being grounded a couple of months ago due to oxegen issues. The F-22 was cleared to fly the other week but is still barred from flying above 25,000 feet. None of this is out of context mate. It's fact:
h t t p : / / ww w . defensenews . com /story . php?i=6916880
If it can't fly above 25,000 feet it's no good as an interceptor.
@TheARMAProductions You have taken it out of context and repeatedly cite third pary interpertaions of others facts. You are not citing facts - You are citing someone eleses interpertation there of it. To put it another way you are citing 2nd to 3rd hand information. "technical issues that I know to be true' No, you formulated a conclusion and searched information to support it. You have also cycled old news about it and re-presented as a new fact such as Oxygen issue/
@Shay You keep saying that I'm taking things out of context but you are not explaining why. From what i understand, the F-22 has been barred from flying above 25,000 feet as of from Jan 2011. I don't know how that's taking anything out of context m8? This is info directly from the US government. I even posted a link detailing the tech issues. There's loads of sources. Just Google it. When the US government makes a formal statement I am inclined to believe it over someone on YT pondering over it
@TheARMAProductions Sorry it does not validate anything you say - All you post is someone elses interperation of these results - If these gov studies speak for themselves, then why need so many third hand interperations.
@Shayis None of us can be 100% sure of anything but that's what coming out of the USAF m8. Mark my words, if the F-35C turns out to be a success the USAF will scrap most of it's F-22's keeping a few for testing/future developments for UCAV tech. I don't see what the obsession is with the F-22 anyway? It's as if Americans think it's their only option. The F-22 program is dead. All funds have been canx. Russia's PAK-50 will go the same way. The US/UK have no plans for manned combat jets after F-35
Ahh no, merely production of extra fighters has been halted. All tooling has been retained (in case extras are needed, like if there is any credible threat to the USAF, which there isn't).
The fleet is still being constantly upgraded.
The obsession is that its the best fighter in history and is unique in its capability. Name another fighter that can fly into the face of enemy IADS and gather ELINT?
@FXWorldBeater I don't wish to trash the F-22 mate but the last I heard it's been barred from flying above 25,000 feet as of from Jan 2011? This is no good as an interceptor because high altitude is where you get the most amount of energy on your missiles and gravity dictates that the higher you fly the more advantage you have (missiles use energy when trying to defy gravity i.e climbing to intercept their target).
@TheARMAProductions "I don't wish to trash the F-22 mate but the last I heard it's been barred from flying above 25,000 feet as of from Jan 2011?"
They've been off all restrictions since the grounding. All pilots were given instruction on how to detect hypoxic symptoms before it gets bad and the facemasks have been fitted with oxygen monitors.
They can always switch to the emergency oxygen supply (green apple) if something goes wrong.
@FXWorldBeater Assuming you're correct...the proof is in the pudding imo. The UK MoD are so confident of the EF that they estimate 4 Typhoons is enough to see off the entire South American continents air force if required (Brazil and others have recently stepped up the heat by blockades so UK is preparing for another war there). Well...we have Rapier batteries ofc and can fly in more EF's if needed but they think 4 is enough to see off the first few weeks.
@FXWorldBeater I know Argentina has a 1950's AF but I wasn't sure of Brazil. I thought their AF was better but obviously not hah. UK & USA use allot of the same tech anywayz. UK is the USA's primary importer of the AIM120, The radars are similar too. F-22 has VLO. EF can carry high tech ram jet missiles (as well as other ground attack munitions such as Storm Shadow/Paveway/Penguin etc). From the UK perspective the EF fits our needs allot more than F-22. The F-35C is just for our Navy
@TheARMAProductions "EF can carry high tech ram jet missiles (as well as other ground attack munitions such as Storm Shadow/Paveway/Penguin etc)"
When the Meteor enters production. The F-35 will support it as well (a UK requirement).
US is moving onto the JDRADM (joint dual role air dominance missile) which will feature a directional warhead (more effective and smaller warhead size to improve performance and range). The missile will work against air and ground targets.
@FXWorldBeater The EF is no joke tho. It slapped the SU-35 silly in the MMRCA tech evaluation which was why India chucked it out. Russia only has a few SU-35's % now that India isn't going to buy it, it's looking as though the SU-35 will not be mass produced so that's a victory to EF. A few weeks later the EF slapped the shit out of the Mig-29/F-18 & F-16 in the joint excerise they hold between the Ozzy/UK/Malaysian AF
h t t p : //theaviationist . com/2011/12/05/typhoon-malaysia/
@TheARMAProductions "It slapped the SU-35 silly in the MMRCA tech evaluation"
You mean the Mig-35....Su wasn't part of that competition (being a medium fighter comp). Everything slapped the Mig-35 silly in that. The Mig was considered the worst contender by the Indians.
The Russians are only just receiving their production Su-35's... they have 2 so far and will be buying 50.
@FXWorldBeater Well technically....they are just updated Mig 29's anyway. Slightly tweaked airframe/avionics but it's basically the same jet. They call it another name and pretend it's a newer jet.
@FXWorldBeater The EF is slightly combat proven tho. The USA & France may now purchase the Brimbstone missile due to it's success in Libya. It's basically a Hellfire but with more range and more can be carried. EF can carry all of the NATO air to air munitions (Sidwinder/AIM120 etc) as well as METEOR. METEOR offers a huge advantage as conventional rocket propulsion cannot compete with RAM jet. EF has it's benefits. With EF you can go from air to air to air to ground with the flick of a switch
@TheARMAProductions "The USA & France may now purchase the Brimbstone missile due to it's success in Libya"
Maybe, we still have the JAGM in development, so there'll be a competition between them. My bets are on the JAGM due to being home grown. We also have the SDB II on the horizon which is an amazing weapon.
The problem I see with the Typhoon over the F-35 and F-22 is that it won't be able to penetrate any IADS with <20 year technology. It worked vs Libya tho.
@TheARMAProductions I'm in the "Stealth is a minimum requirement" camp. I don't think heavy investment in 4th gen, non-vlo airframes is wise these days.
When systems like MEADS, AEGIS, S-400/500...etc can knock down non-vlo aircraft from outside their weapons delivery range, you have a gap.
@FXWKeep in mind that VLO is not invisible. It just lowers the RCS. There's massive advancements in infa red tech such as PIRATE that can now detect the heat out to an unconfirmed 100 km. The VLO jet is likely to get the first lock but as soon as it does it will light up like an Xmas tree. The AESA can then jam the BVRAAM. With both jets closing at around 2000 Mph + it won't be long before they get winthin visual and switch to infa red missiles. It's just a different solution to the same problem
Then there's the electronical warfare systems element. Jets such as EF use advanced EWS systems to hide the jet. This tech is used on the B-2 and basically recieved, distorts then sends back the signal slightly out of phase thus hiding the jet. This is not vulnerable to adverse weather conditions sucha s RAM coatings/VLO. Very little is known about the real technology inside these jets which makes it more or less impossible for us to compare really
@TheARMAProductions "This is not vulnerable to adverse weather conditions sucha s RAM coatings/VLO."
The F-22 uses the same system, just a bit more advanced. The jamming from the EF is just basic radar jamming (which is limitted until the captor is upgraded to aesa). The F-22 uses the ALR-94 RWR which has a high receiver count (by far the highest of any fighter).
A part of an F-22's role when it runs out of missiles is to stay up forward and track enemies passively.
@TheARMAProductions "This is not vulnerable to adverse weather conditions sucha s RAM coatings/VLO"
Modern coatings have no such limitation. The F-35's skin needs no special maintenance and is not degraded by weather, but is as good, if not better than the old F-22 RAM. The last few batches of the F-22 have been fitted with the same coatings and earlier aircraft will be recoated as part of the normal maintenance cycle.
@FXWorldBeater I checked it out. I suspect it will use a combination of turbo outleets, jet engines and scram jets. EADS are developing a new Concorde (SESTEN 3,5 KAT HIZLI) which will use normal jet engines to take off...Turbo outlets to get to 80/90,000 feet then will use Scram jet to propel the airliner to mach 4.0:
watch?v=hx0cY7WvzTc
They say they'll have a prototype by 2015 altho it will be a few decade before it's in service. They claim to make it 100% carbon neutral too.
@TheARMAProductions of course its not invisible, but against radars, its obviously better having it than not. Combined with jamming, its much more effective.
Pirate like all IRST's is limitted by the environment. If its cloudy or hazey, it doesn't work. If a supercruising enemy is coming head on and has leading edge active cooling like has been suggested on the F-22, it's range is lessened.
@TheARMAProductions "The VLO jet is likely to get the first lock but as soon as it does it will light up like an Xmas tree"
That's not how things work when the F-22 is used as part of a networked "system". This is how it operates, except, replace the rear F-22 for the new F-15C Golden Eagles.
@TheARMAProductions As you can see in the diagrammed scenario, the aircraft firing the missiles if not the one the enemy sees...
There are other factors such as...you can't engage a target until you get a track on it (you track its direction and speed). F-22's operating as a wolf pack will takes turns at switching on their radars for a few seconds at a time if needed, and the networked data is combined to piece together the tracks of the enemy fighters.
@FXWorldBeater PS: I do agree that there's no need to use F-22 (assuming it's good to go) tho. Jets like F-16/F-18/F-15 have modern avionics and can do the job just as well. Well...that's USAAF F-15's/F-16's/F-18's etc as they have the latest gen AESA radars.
EF doesn't get AESA Captor until 2012-2013 so at the moment...the teens are a bit better at BVR. If India buys then T3 Block will probably get TVN (this is more to do with super cruise performance increase due to saving fuel).
@ShayisWY PS: I am merely posting facts about the technical issues that I know to be true. The F-22 is in a kind of limbo status. They have not retracted it from service but all project funds have been canx which is why F-22 is taking the computers from the newer block F-16's. The reason for the limbo status is that the F-35 is about to go into service and so it makes more sense to focus funds on F-35's development. It's going to cost 100's of millions to fix the F-35 mate
F-22 did in 2008 have maintance cost per hr of 44K, however this included non-variable cost such as base stand up cost. Variable costs, the F-22 is only 19K/hr.(2008) 2007 F-22 can only fly 1.7 hours before Mean Time Between Maintenance (MTBM). This is normal for new aircraft and it decreases towars maturity - This happens to almost all aircraft. The requirments for the F-22 is to have a MTBM of 3 hrs. Lot 6 have not only met this requirements, they have exceeded it at 3.2 MTBM.
Some of these stats are misquoted. Any aircraft prior to maturity will have greater maintenance hours. The F-22 was required to achieve 12.0 direct maintenance man-hours per flight hour (DMMH). As of 2009 F-22 achieved 10.5 DMMH. Better than expected.
F-22 is expensive. Yes it is, but per capita it is cheaper than the T-50. Russia has less than 1/3 the GDP of the US. T-50 is less than 1/2 of the price of the 22, but consumes a higher percentage of the Russia GDP than the 22 does of the US GDP
of course its number 1 does it have to be spotless in every way or something?yes things break and yes computers have come of age in the last decades not exactly deal breakers.
Finally, let me note that the main geostrategic or geopolitical problem identified by a 2008 RAND analysis was in fact a GEOPOLITICAL problem, not an air superiority problem: namely, the F22 depends on forward fixed bases in a time when China is rapidly increasing its capability to turn a base like Okinawa into a moon crater with MRBMs during a crisis - which perhaps shows that the F22 should have been a navy carrier plane instead, from the beginning, pointing toward the F-35.
@michaelkraig70 Big reason why the USSR feared the F-14 so much. What you had was an airframe that if flown right was just as good as the F-15 in close and much better in the medium and far range combat; with the ability to clear the skys being attached to a highly mobile base. Not to forget that your main means of killing that base had to contented with tomcats from very far out.
Let me also add to my earlier comment that there are textual errors in the use of English (e.g, use of plural on nouns, verb/noun agreement) by the maker/poster of this video that one would expect of someone for whom English is a second language. Not to sound paranoid, but, is there a hidden agenda here?
I ask because the video maker seems to be talking about "the American taxpayer" in the third, not first, person....
I would agree that the USAF put too much into "stealth" and this is causing severe problems with both moisture and corrosion. Perhaps the F-22 would have been fine as a 4.5 craft - i.e, most maneuverable in world -- without stealth. HOWEVER: I teach Air Force Majors who have "fought" against it (and with it) in robust exercises. They say, to a man, that it beats everything in the sky. Period. A true "force multiplier" - against F15s 16s, Sukhois, etc.
Every fighter aircraft has its flaws and defects. Every fighter aircraft develops cracks. Every fighter aircraft is obsolete technologically by the time it enters service. And I was the maintainer crewing the F-22 that had the canopy problem the day it happened...it was my jet 03-4041. The bottom line is that it is entirely absurd to think that these problems are unique to just one airframe.
Having the RCS of a golf ball doesn't mean much to modern air defense radars that send and receive in multiple bands, and are equipped with mega fast signal processing computers, and digital filters. Stealth is way over rated but will still work against relatively low tech adversaries.
The F-22 is a daylight robbery of the us taxpayers, "it sucks" in plain english. I made a video about it back in 2007, and my video has proven correct:
F-22 is only perfect Hollywood plane , basically F-22 is great "actor"........Transformers , Iron-Man , War of the Worlds , + couple more and its gets more famous !!!!
@rampking1 Air shows are only a minute part of a A/C s actual flight service theres several F117 crashes along with F16 crashes , general dynamics shody workmanship & engineering on routeing wireing caused most F16 crashes the F117 s computer failures caused most of theirs ,as you've noted most of the Russian loses at air shows were prototypes.
@rampking1 lololol and do you know how many NATO planes have crashed ? NO !
research it before you bring this shit up... damn you all fuckign idiots have real high esteem about your military and army men but when things get rough you all fuck up somehow ...
@Cnupoc Do a google or YouTube search on F-15 or F-16 crashes at Farnborough or Paris Air Show in the last 25 years.
Can you show me at least one?
NATO aircraft? I am talking USAF or USN.
Where am I comparing NATO vs Russian?
You are so emotional.
Just exchanging facts, not worth getting upset about.
Btw, the one Paris Air Show I went to back in the 90's, the Russian kept the fighters at home as they were concerned there would be bank leans imposed onto them. The An-225 Mriya did make it.
@rampking1 type "united states military planes crash air show" and click the links on the whole 1st page, without the 1st link since it's from 1953.see you're ranting about russian planes and it irritates people so dont bring me this shit about me being emotional and you're JUST exchanging facts. i didnt see any facts by you by the way to be honest. i bet russians would love to test the Su-35 against your F22, would your pilots have the balls,THEN?because they forgot them last time back in USA..
Ah, the old change the topic / answer a question with another question tactic.
I'll answer my own question, as I can recall right now, I don't think any American F-15, F-16 and I will throw in F-14 or F-18's in the history of either the "Farnborough" or "Paris Air Show" have crashed during demos.
Can your computer search engine prove my recollection wrong?
Of course American built fighters have crashed at other venues, as demonstated by a Canadian CF-18 a few weeks ago.
lmao didnt have the time to check out my answer by yourself huh :D
click the 2nd and 8th links dumbass of the search i told you to look for.... there's your F-16 and F-14 dont try being a smart ass when you actually are dumb as hell... it's pathetic...
@Cnupoc If you could find one example of ANY of these aircraft crashing at either of these shows you win!
By the way, to the best of my knowledge, your Su-35 is out of the running for the fighter contract for Brasil. The Swedes Grippen, French Rafale and F-18E/F are still in.
So regardless of a fly-off Su-35 vs F-22, you are down by one.
Hmmm...makes you wonder.
I guess the Brasilians read all the "export-model" excuses on YouTube, for the poor combat records of Russian MiG-29 and MiG-23's
@rampking1 xD xD xD PATHETIC i showed you your 2 planes crash, you keep ranting about farnborough and paris --- FINE i'll make em crash next year so you can STFU with the only 2 places you havent crashed yet.
forget farnborough and paris air-shows - they're only 2 of the 350 airshows in the world which take place each year...xD xD show me a crash of a MiG-17 on an air show in Guatemala :D :D :D :D :D And what's that got to do with the contract of Brasil ? xD
The F-111 was a "flying Enron" too but became a legendary aircraft.
Interesting how nobody has mentioned that one of the biggest "Flaws" of the
F-22 is a BIG One.
ZERO* pilots wants to go up against it one on one or 2 on 1 in mock combat exercises. It is a real issue !
You can come to your own conclusions.
Although I have been impressed by the F-18E and the F-22 in airshows, the bottom line for any aircraft is real combat history so we'll have to wait and see.
@rampking1 Odd that the Americans turned down a chance to mock combat a SU35 at the Farinbourg air show ,wonder what there problem was ???? computer glitch or airframe or engine mount cracks ???
@kamphwagon1 For the same reason why we were disapointed with the French Rafales at last years RED FLAG exercise at Nellis AFB.
The Rafale is an impressive aircraft but they were more interested in observing our technology than getting fully committed as India was with it's Su-30MKI.
We knew the Russians would dogfight but it's real interests would be our technology capability that they could test in a real world situation.
The French are our friends but the Russians are still the enemy.
@rampking1 Yada yada yada all the lame excuses for not trying your metal against Sukoi ,the Russians made the offer, the challenge , and lockeed & the USAF backed down, pussed-out , no balls lol they were afraid of a little embaresment I gusse. after seeing the SU 35 manuver they decided they couldn't win LOL or were afraid of crashing ! BTW the Russians may be interested in tech ,but are far from staunch enemeys except for the GWB Cheney brainwashed diehard physcotics.
As far as I am aware...red flag excercises have not actually pitted EF's against F22's? Even if this is so....an excercise is not real life and there's way to many variables to consider hence we wouldn't really know unless they were to fight for real. There's reports that the EF' came out on top in the last round of the red flag tests this year but again...nobody can show us proof.
I think both Yanks and Euro's are getting too excited lol.
@photosshop the raptor flies in sandstorms in the deserts of nevada and california, the sub-0 temperatures of alaska, and performs in all weathers as it is based in all weather environments, rain, snow, sand, you name it, the raptor is stationed and flies in it. the idea that it can't fly in rain is one of the biggest examples of misinformation ive seen
@bigreddawg91 LOL Dumby no one disputes it flying in these conditions, it's the matinence required afterwards, no supercruise in the rain the stealth coatings peel off , these cracks and other problems are real your patroitism may be admired but does nothing to fix a flawed failure at lockeed that became a snow ball rolling down hill of cost over runs and matinence night mares,use your head for somthing other than a hat rack,they didn't cancle the program for no reason !!!
@kamphwagon1 the maintenance time is actually very minimal compared to what people claim it to be, last i heard, people were saying it required 30 hrs of maintenance for every hr in the air, in reality it requires 11, which is actually ahead of schedule for it. it actually requires less of this coating than the f117, and every reliable source out there says that the degradation of the coating today is not any issue, so your just beating a dead horse, in the prototypes, sure the coating may have
@bigreddawg91 Don't know where you get your info but the program is cancled, that reliable sorce is most likley comeing from the LM PR people not from the USAF,as for prototypes nearly every craptor ia a prototype,due to a bright idea of farming out parts production around the US to keep funding going and keep congress from cuting it as these congress people would lose jobs in their districts LOL sounds good dosent it ?
@kamphwagon1 been an issue, but now its not, plain and simple
"the stealth coatings are not as fragile as they were in earlier stealth aircraft. It isn't damaged by a rain storm and it can stand the wear and tear of combat without degradation." -Lt. Col. Tolliver. this just proves my point. and the program isn't cancelled bud. so before you start question my intellect, do a little research first.
@bigreddawg91 cont. Yeah it sounds real bright , only problem is when parts came in they were out of tolerence,looks like American machinests cant read a micrometer properly ,it was either trash them or remachine to make them fit ,some parts are ovesize & undersize ,a logstic night mare for the USAF, one of the reasons the USAF didn't scream at the cancelation so you've got 200 prototypes LOL ,Lockeed would've been better off doing everthing in house as they did with the SR71 & the F117.
@kamphwagon1 i'm not denying it had some problems when it was first introduced, what new technology doesn't? these have been addressed, and fixed. the quote i gave you was a direct quote from a lt. col. in the air force. oh and Carter 'cancelled' the b1 bomber project, to only be put back into production when reagan was in office. if anything the ordering of new units has been put on hold. to be honest all this badmouthing of the raptor is out of pure spite and jealousy, it wont change the fact
@kamphwagon1 its still the best plane in the sky. heres another example, it has an amazing record in mocked combat with the f15, which may i add it itself has a perfect combat record. the f15 is the baseline for EVERY fighter in history.
@bigreddawg91 You still don't grasp the problems of haveing a fleet of prototypes, it's realy impressive when everthing is working as it should , it even has computer problems, and as I mentioned once the "" Frequencey"" is found, and it's just a matter of time all this stealth bullshit will be a waste,the USAF has the mentality of a punk standing on the street corner exposeing the raptor to Russian radar ,like the punk waveing his prick at passerbys .
@bigreddawg91 Cont. You don't realy think those old Russian prop driven Bear bombers are carrying ordance do you ? I would say electronic gear, they could easyly pack three or four radar units in it looking for the right frequencey when the raptors come to escort them out of US airspace. LOL the 117 is no longer invisible to radar after the Serbs tuned it in and shot one down and damaged another with 20+year old radars & SAAMs !
@bigreddawg91 The f15 is a pretty good a/c, when it comes to impressive manuvers the F22 shoud outshine the 15 with it's trust vectoring in mock combat. The USAF had their chance to realy prove it's worth as a competitive dogfighter at the English air show but declined a Russian challenge to mock combat a Sukoi 35, needless to say the USAF backed down from the offer ! A Mig 29 OVT can easyly out manuver a F15 compairing a F22 vs F15 is like apples vs oranges
@bigreddawg91 So there you still have a prototype after 20 years as you claim it's been around , as I said befoe your patroitism may be admired but will never change the problems this A/C has ,all this mumbo jumbo your quoteing from biased sorces won't change the reason it's called the''craptor'! and once the Russians find the resonate radar frequencey as was done with the F117 all this money spent on stealth will be wasted !
@rampking1 It was the Serbs useing 20+year old radars & SAMs theyer radar guided and have to have a lock to make a hit. Mothballed pretty much explains it LOL if they were soo good they would still be flying!
@rampking1 What does it mater where there mothballed at , there not flying them most likley because there not needed and it's flight record , these types of aircraft are like retireing a nuclear wheapon , they keep them around for awhile , and once the better wheapon has proven itself there destroyed, don't be surpprised if the f117s are striped out and done away with esp if the F35 pans out , then the'll most likley mothball the raptor !
@MelRob29 how so? it acts as a mobile command center, despite propaganda which states it takes 30 hrs of maintenance for every one hour of flight, it actually meets a standard of 10.5 hours of maintenance for every hour, which is ahead of its original prediction for when it comes of maturity. its an all weather fighter, cutting edge stealth technology, (oh and did i mention this fighter has also been around for 20 years now?) and just ow other countries are struggling to catch up
@iamscoutstfu , mind you they provided a plane under the threat of cancellation
what the fanboys of the PAK FA keeping forgetin is that the Gen Zelin and Gen Makarov had every intention of cancelling the PAK FA unless they made a flight , plus only one of the 3 built prototypes is flying, yeah a real threat to the F-22
@andrewm153351, maybe not 144-0 but still good odds for typhoon against f-15's,f-16's so on...
I know the F-22 is an amazing aircraft but the amount of people that say "oh the F-22 so good if it went up against infinite amount of planes it would win" just annoys me but I'm happy enough that my country has the Typhoon it is an amazing plane, I think that this day and age everything is more technology then a pilot's skill which to me is a disadvantage.
@flyingman93 Typhoon, super bad ass. I saw a EF2000 demo last year at Lakenheath, and OMG its manouverability is insane! If anyone ever says the 22 would easily defeat the EF2000 in a dogfight, laugh. They are so close in close combat that it will really depend on the pilot more then the capabilities of the aircraft
@flyingman93 Ill admit the public much over play the F-22 and uder judge the EF2000. It makes me laugh because almost none have ever seen a EF2008 in tight turns. However, me being a USAF pilot and having flown the 22 and seen the EF2000, I will naturally say the 22 is the better, JUST BEARLY, in manouvering but the true advantage would come form BVR and stealth. But youre right EF2000 AWESOME American public who know nothing about it, HILARIOUS!
@flyingman93 F-15C also. We flip-flop. Im with the 1st FW at Langley AFB. Wow. How is it in a Helo? Ive flown backseat in only 2, the Apache and the Blackhawk. And hey, give it a few years or even months, youre gonna be yelling, IM FLYING EF2000! Hahahaha!
@UltimateGohan2008, Ha If only, flying a Helo is great, abit drafty when you have the rear sliding door open for the door gunner but you get used to it. The Apache is amazing, I fly the Lynx and I have been accompanied by the Apache quite a couple of times, great fire power. I hope you also get to fly the EF2000 in a exchange programme or something similiar but I would be exstatic just flying the F-15.
@andrewm153351, not it didn't have external fuel tanks, plus the US were so embarrassed that the eurofighter got a lock that the next day training which also was BVR was cancelled, and saying the eurofighter is almost as good is a understatement, you just can't take the fact that something outside the US is just as good, face facts American jets are good but not as good as you think.
The eurofighter has an rcs(without external missiles-which make it useless)
of about 0.2m2
The f22 has an rcs of 0.0001m2.
That means the f-22 is 2000x more stealthy, which means the f22 has a 2000x better chance of locking on to the eurofighter in TRUE BVR than vise versa.
And those mechanical problems that you listed were fixed YEARS ago. Nice try.
The same goes for the cracks in the aft boom(which only happened very rarely) they were fixed as well.
And still with its i960mx processor, the f22 has the most extensive radar system put into an aircraft to date. The f-22 can see further than any other aircraft.
You russians are only do one thing -create silly propaganda
And i have already explained to you that having ONE plane crash is NOTHING.
For example, the b2 bomber had the SAME EXACT malfunction, only it wasn't going as fast which allowed the pilot to survive. And this happened almost 20 YEARS after its first flight. Are you saying the b2 is a failure then? LOLOL Cause that would be an EPIC FAILURE.
Still, the i960MX is stronger than ANY chip put into ANY russian aircraft. And that's including the pak-fa.
Even our old shit is better than their new shit. SAD.
And we will buy 187 planes, not 183
And who cares about the cost? We spend 700 billion a year on our military so it doesn't phase us. Unlike the russians who are constantly having to lower their military budget due to economic problems.
Same goes for maintainability. We have the resources(unlike russia) to spend 3 hours for maintenance
Here we go...bringing up world war 2 yet again. When you can actually claim to of won a single war on your own (cival war not included imao) then you can use that argument without people laughing at you hahaha.
"if it wasnt for us americans you all will be speaking german! "
If it wasn't for us declaring war then so would you lol. Also...if it wasn't for 'us Brits' you wouldn't evenexists imao
@fredgt28, Oh I'm sorry did you fight in the 2nd World War, Oh right it was the brave americans not some whiny bitch at the end of a keyboard, btw don't even bother saying anything because us Brits have backed you up plenty of times, and if it wasn't for us you would be speaking French.
You want the truth on the F-22 and why we pilots love it so much, view these videos> The Real F-22 Raptor- A High Flying Masterpeice and The Real F-22 Raptor- A High Flying Masterpeice 2.0 Thats the truth on everything stated in this video
Yanks are now claiming all these issues have been addressed and fixed? It all comes down to missile/radar technology anyway and only Russia and Europe have BVR Ram Jet missiles. Yanks will say that the F22 has the radar signature that of a bird but the thing is...our radars can hit a signature that small and anything travelling at like 400Mph = is obviously a jet :) I assume Russia's radars are as capable too....
I'm not a big fan of criuse missiles as we have the ability to take them out. There handy on our SSN's to launch against noobs but that's about it. METEOR and Type 45 can deal with them mate.
At the end of the day, u.s. tech is superior to russian tech by far. You're still stuck in the soviet days. Russia has had to lower its military spending dramatically because of their shitty failing economy. We spend more on healthcare than what russia spends on its military...and thats saying something...XD
" the f-22 doesn't have a radar signature of a small bird, but of a small marble"
lol that's so stupid it doesn't even deserve a reply. Yes...I am right in saying that USA doesn't have RAM jet missiles. If you think the AIM 120 is Ram jet then that is an epic fail lolz..
First of all, are you denying the fact that the f22 has a radar signature of a small marble???
LOL. Its rcs is 0.0001m2. You can do the math yourself.
Did i ever say the u.s. has RAM jet missiles? NOPE.FAIL. I said that OUR bvr missiles have proved themselves in REAL LIFE. Take our f-15 kill record for example. 105-0.
Can't beat that.
And my own media takes a piss at the f22? and did you hear all of her ridiculous excuses? PLUS she is the biggest liberal propaganda machine out there
F15 kill record comes from shooting down sand monkeys (as with israel) who don't have good missiles of their own? Are you seriously comparing sand monkeys to Russians/Hans? We need to keep this in mind when speaking about kill records of all conflicts so far. We have only fought idiots lol.
Its funny how you don't address my perfect comparison of the b2 incident and the f22 incident...and you were so happy about the f22's ONE crash....lol
The difference was that the B2 project was not canx half way though it's deployment! You don't se the EF being canx. How do you epect to keep the F22's stealth upto scratch if it's had it's funds canx?
wow. First of all, the b2 was constructed during the cold war, so congress didn't give a fuck about spending. The WHOLE reason why the f22 was "canxed" was because of the huge BUDGET. Not because of its capability. Hell, the military was BEGGING congress for more funding, saying that the aircraft is vital for air superiority.
You will see that we have this technology so i assume Russia and others are working on it to. This is why the F22 will have to constantly adapt. This is a basic concept in all technology. If the F22 has had it's funding canx then the Stealth will soon be outdated. I know you unbderstand that radar tech advances like other technology :)
And like i have told you MANY times. even if you can track the f22 on radar, you still have to engage it before it engages you, which is impossible. you have to lock on to it with an aircraft and then let the missile go. Well, the f22 will see the enemy aircraft and engage it BEFORE it engages the raptor.
BTW the b2 bomber's rcs was 10x larger than the f35 (not the export version though)
LOL you have to LOCK ON to the f22 before you shoot at it. You can't lock onto it with a mobile phone. And i have already told you that the person who actually made that report called it a "gross distortion of the truth".
Also...you orginally said the B2 has flown shit loads of sorties without being detected. I then said it's a different case with us for which you then asked for my source.
He said the truth had been destorted...he did not deny it. I believe what he meant by that was at the time we had no way or actually targetting Stealth as you say.
When someone sais "grossly distorted" rather than publically denying it that usually tells you there''s something to it :) If you seriously believe that Stealth cannot be countered then your very ignorant I'm afraid.
I know that stealth can be countered, but only to a certain extent, just like anything can. The truth is that whoever has stealth, rules the skies. If you deny this, YOU are ignorant i'm afraid.
And if it wasn't true, then WHY are so many countries buying our f-35???
Your saying you know that stealth can becountered but only too an extent. This applies there's a limit to development which is ignorant to imply. We need to wait and see. Hopefully...the F22 won't get shot down like how the F117 did. Again...flying over Iraq is one thing...flying over Europe/Russia/China is something completely different.
As for the F35B...we didn't buy that for it's Stealth...we needed a replacement for the harrier. if we were looking for it's stealth we would of brought some C models too. I do hope the F35 works out to be a success though. What's your opinion on the F35?
to say the uk didn't buy the f-35 for its stealth would be ridiculous...
The whole point to an f-35 is its stealth, being that it doesn't maneuver well in WVR. Its totally dependent on stealth.
The f-35 is the 2nd stealthiest fighter jet ever made. It also has better ground based offense than the f22 because the f22 is primarily designed for air superiority.
The f35 on the other hand can read your license plate, and hear what your listening to on your radio from thousands of feet in the air
@andrewm153351 Nah...we plan to use the METEOR on the F35B (USA does too) so it's all about it's BWR capabilities. This is a known fact. Stealth is only going to work for a period of time. Once you get to within visual range then it's void so as I said...F35 is all about BVR. I hear that the F35 can slew it's missile via 360 degrees without turning too?
"we plan to use the METEOR on the F35B (USA does too) so it's all about it's BWR capabilities"
omg..what do you think STEALTH is? it directly refers to BVR. And with stealth, you WON'T GET WITHIN VISUAL RANGE. Especially with the f-35's extensive radars.
The main element to BVR is the missile...don't be silly. Without a good BWR missile you can't so shit (unless your cannons an reach that far lol) but without stealth and with a good BVR weapon...you still can!
This is what you can't get into your head when I explain the two different philospohies. Our idea of BVR is having the missile with the greater range. You chose to go down the route of stealth. Both ideas consist of a BWR mentality but the truth is that without a BWR weapon your the Stealth won't mean shit anyway...that should be obvious to you! lol.
NO NO NO. It has been proven that BVR missiles have an actual kill rate of about 30%(i can send you the link)
But being stealthy is 100%.
How can you possibly say our stealth won't mean anything...Yes, our stealth needs BVR missiles, but tell me, which happens first. Shooting your BVR missile, or finding your target???
A jet with stealth+BVR missiles is WAY more effective than just a jet with BVR missiles. This you CANNOT deny.
Oh grow up. Sealth aircraft have been shot down and Russia and India possess supersonic cruise missiles, which the usa does not possess. Goodbye and thanks for providing no challenge, rationale, reason or argument whatsoever. *blocks you so I don't have to put up with your nonsense*
In case you didn't realize, when you block someone, it doesn't stop them from replying comments, it only stops them from sendin you personal messages.
FAIL.
ONE stealth aircraft has been shot down(f-117), and it wasn't even 1/20th as stealthy as the f-35, nor f-22.
And it wasn't shot down because it was spotted on radar, it was shot down because the shooter already knew where the f-117 was going to fly.
If the three laws of reason are true, if deduction is true, if mathematics is true, if division is true, if one flyaway F-22 cost 183M is true, if total program cost of 6.7B is true, and if 187 F-22s are purchased is true, then it should be true that each F-22 costs more 366,120,218.M. If the 3rd law of reason, "The Law of the Excluded Middle", is true, then this per unit cost is either true, or not true. Which is it? P.S. Does this include maintenance?
gauzeandchess 1 month ago
@gauzeandchess F22's cost is around $419 million per plane.
Picard578 1 month ago
@gauzeandchess if you look at total prgram cost then the UK Typhoons are more expensive.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
also it can't communicate with any other aircraft in the air. Australia made a computer simulated highly realistic experiment with two teams red and blue. Blue team had 400 f-18E/F 183 F-22 and 100 f-35 VS red team with 100 su-27sm 4 su-30 and 2 su-35. Results? first 20 min hundreds blue team members were downed, only 12 red team lost. f-22 and f-35 proved useless. Us lost to eurofighters in germany in redflag making excuses, and f-22 was never used in combat. sad waste of money
alex080297 5 months ago
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watch?v=fnaZfBpe1YI&feature=related
"People always fail to relise that every new plane will have problems, the only reason people never heard about F-15 and F-16 failures is because theres was no internet when they first came into production and I guess the media wasnt putting their noses everywhere." - galatasarayfan67 - 2 months ago
Ninjastripy 6 months ago
There is no doubt that the F-22 program has issues that must be addressed, especially in light of the fact that the F-35 program has similar problems that are being aggressively addressed DoD. Still I would like to point out that for all it's shortcomings every Nation in the world is trying their hardest and damndest to fallow in the F-22 footsteps. What does that say about them and the F-22 program? So for better or worse it's still the fighter to beat. It's still no#1.
hec031 8 months ago
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TheARMAProductions 5 months ago
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JCrownwell 4 months ago
@hec031
Time to accept the F22 for what it is. It's over-engineered, overly delicate, overly sensitive to corrosion, ridden with fundamental refractory technological glitches and problems, and grotesquely over-expensive. It should never have seen the light of day, aside from as a technological show-case.
JCrownwell 4 months ago
This is junk journalism that took some information out of context. The Su-30MK many flaws in the begining and the F-14 development was just short of an out right disaster and yet one would be an idiot to to make the claim these are shitty aircraft.
Every aircraft has growing pains and most of these pains are overcome....get over it
ShayisWY 8 months ago
@ShayisWY The F-22 was recently grounded again. This time it's oxegen issues. Since January, F-22 pilots have been barred from flying above 25,000 feet, following the crash of a Raptor jet in Alaska during a training flight. The American aviation enthusiasts just won't let go I'm afraid. The F-22 project needs to be reopened if they wwant to see it in action. The USAF won't bother because they have the F-35 on the way.
TheARMAProductions 3 months ago
@TheARMAProductions Again look at other programs - You cannot make comments such as yours without placing nothing on it in regards to how relative they are to comparable or like aircraft. Sorry you formed a conclusion and sought evidence to support without considering perspective. As mentioned, the F-14 very early on and in development had a very very high crash %,
ShayisWY 2 months ago
@ShayisWY The key to your comment is you saying ' the F-14 very early on and in development had a very very high crash %,'
The F-22 is not in it's early stages of development my friend. It's supposed to be in active service. As with the EF/Rafale/Grippen the development goes back to the 80's. If all of these technical issues/crashes were occuring 10 years ago then I'd agree with what you said here. Now that the F-22 program has had it's funds cut/canx, I can't see these issues being resolved.
TheARMAProductions 2 months ago
@TheARMAProductions You are parroting the same things over and over again which have 1) proven to be taken out of context and outright wrong. 2) you formulated a conclusion first and try to find results second 3) The fact you cite the issues with the F-22 in development creates a great conflict and contradiction with what you are stating - Essentially you have contradicted yourself.
ShayisWY 2 months ago
@Shayis No I'm not. The F-22's been barred from flying above 25,000 feet as of January. This is something I found out just the other day as well as the F-22's being grounded a couple of months ago due to oxegen issues. The F-22 was cleared to fly the other week but is still barred from flying above 25,000 feet. None of this is out of context mate. It's fact:
h t t p : / / ww w . defensenews . com /story . php?i=6916880
If it can't fly above 25,000 feet it's no good as an interceptor.
TheARMAProductions 2 months ago
@TheARMAProductions You have taken it out of context and repeatedly cite third pary interpertaions of others facts. You are not citing facts - You are citing someone eleses interpertation there of it. To put it another way you are citing 2nd to 3rd hand information. "technical issues that I know to be true' No, you formulated a conclusion and searched information to support it. You have also cycled old news about it and re-presented as a new fact such as Oxygen issue/
ShayisWY 2 months ago
@Shay You keep saying that I'm taking things out of context but you are not explaining why. From what i understand, the F-22 has been barred from flying above 25,000 feet as of from Jan 2011. I don't know how that's taking anything out of context m8? This is info directly from the US government. I even posted a link detailing the tech issues. There's loads of sources. Just Google it. When the US government makes a formal statement I am inclined to believe it over someone on YT pondering over it
TheARMAProductions 2 months ago
@TheARMAProductions Sorry it does not validate anything you say - All you post is someone elses interperation of these results - If these gov studies speak for themselves, then why need so many third hand interperations.
ShayisWY 2 months ago
@Shayis None of us can be 100% sure of anything but that's what coming out of the USAF m8. Mark my words, if the F-35C turns out to be a success the USAF will scrap most of it's F-22's keeping a few for testing/future developments for UCAV tech. I don't see what the obsession is with the F-22 anyway? It's as if Americans think it's their only option. The F-22 program is dead. All funds have been canx. Russia's PAK-50 will go the same way. The US/UK have no plans for manned combat jets after F-35
TheARMAProductions 2 months ago
@TheARMAProductions "The F-22 program is dead. All funds have been canx."
Ahh no, merely production of extra fighters has been halted. All tooling has been retained (in case extras are needed, like if there is any credible threat to the USAF, which there isn't).
The fleet is still being constantly upgraded.
The obsession is that its the best fighter in history and is unique in its capability. Name another fighter that can fly into the face of enemy IADS and gather ELINT?
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@FXWorldBeater I don't wish to trash the F-22 mate but the last I heard it's been barred from flying above 25,000 feet as of from Jan 2011? This is no good as an interceptor because high altitude is where you get the most amount of energy on your missiles and gravity dictates that the higher you fly the more advantage you have (missiles use energy when trying to defy gravity i.e climbing to intercept their target).
This is official info from the US DoD
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions "I don't wish to trash the F-22 mate but the last I heard it's been barred from flying above 25,000 feet as of from Jan 2011?"
They've been off all restrictions since the grounding. All pilots were given instruction on how to detect hypoxic symptoms before it gets bad and the facemasks have been fitted with oxygen monitors.
They can always switch to the emergency oxygen supply (green apple) if something goes wrong.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@FXWorldBeater Assuming you're correct...the proof is in the pudding imo. The UK MoD are so confident of the EF that they estimate 4 Typhoons is enough to see off the entire South American continents air force if required (Brazil and others have recently stepped up the heat by blockades so UK is preparing for another war there). Well...we have Rapier batteries ofc and can fly in more EF's if needed but they think 4 is enough to see off the first few weeks.
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions Brazil: 20 Skyhawks, 15 Mirage 2000's and 50 F-5's ..... not so inspiring.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@FXWorldBeater I know Argentina has a 1950's AF but I wasn't sure of Brazil. I thought their AF was better but obviously not hah. UK & USA use allot of the same tech anywayz. UK is the USA's primary importer of the AIM120, The radars are similar too. F-22 has VLO. EF can carry high tech ram jet missiles (as well as other ground attack munitions such as Storm Shadow/Paveway/Penguin etc). From the UK perspective the EF fits our needs allot more than F-22. The F-35C is just for our Navy
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@TheARMAProductions "EF can carry high tech ram jet missiles (as well as other ground attack munitions such as Storm Shadow/Paveway/Penguin etc)"
When the Meteor enters production. The F-35 will support it as well (a UK requirement).
US is moving onto the JDRADM (joint dual role air dominance missile) which will feature a directional warhead (more effective and smaller warhead size to improve performance and range). The missile will work against air and ground targets.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@FXWorldBeater The EF is no joke tho. It slapped the SU-35 silly in the MMRCA tech evaluation which was why India chucked it out. Russia only has a few SU-35's % now that India isn't going to buy it, it's looking as though the SU-35 will not be mass produced so that's a victory to EF. A few weeks later the EF slapped the shit out of the Mig-29/F-18 & F-16 in the joint excerise they hold between the Ozzy/UK/Malaysian AF
h t t p : //theaviationist . com/2011/12/05/typhoon-malaysia/
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions "It slapped the SU-35 silly in the MMRCA tech evaluation"
You mean the Mig-35....Su wasn't part of that competition (being a medium fighter comp). Everything slapped the Mig-35 silly in that. The Mig was considered the worst contender by the Indians.
The Russians are only just receiving their production Su-35's... they have 2 so far and will be buying 50.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@FXWorldBeater Well technically....they are just updated Mig 29's anyway. Slightly tweaked airframe/avionics but it's basically the same jet. They call it another name and pretend it's a newer jet.
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
@FXWorldBeater The EF is slightly combat proven tho. The USA & France may now purchase the Brimbstone missile due to it's success in Libya. It's basically a Hellfire but with more range and more can be carried. EF can carry all of the NATO air to air munitions (Sidwinder/AIM120 etc) as well as METEOR. METEOR offers a huge advantage as conventional rocket propulsion cannot compete with RAM jet. EF has it's benefits. With EF you can go from air to air to air to ground with the flick of a switch
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions "The USA & France may now purchase the Brimbstone missile due to it's success in Libya"
Maybe, we still have the JAGM in development, so there'll be a competition between them. My bets are on the JAGM due to being home grown. We also have the SDB II on the horizon which is an amazing weapon.
The problem I see with the Typhoon over the F-35 and F-22 is that it won't be able to penetrate any IADS with <20 year technology. It worked vs Libya tho.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions I'm in the "Stealth is a minimum requirement" camp. I don't think heavy investment in 4th gen, non-vlo airframes is wise these days.
When systems like MEADS, AEGIS, S-400/500...etc can knock down non-vlo aircraft from outside their weapons delivery range, you have a gap.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@FXWKeep in mind that VLO is not invisible. It just lowers the RCS. There's massive advancements in infa red tech such as PIRATE that can now detect the heat out to an unconfirmed 100 km. The VLO jet is likely to get the first lock but as soon as it does it will light up like an Xmas tree. The AESA can then jam the BVRAAM. With both jets closing at around 2000 Mph + it won't be long before they get winthin visual and switch to infa red missiles. It's just a different solution to the same problem
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
Then there's the electronical warfare systems element. Jets such as EF use advanced EWS systems to hide the jet. This tech is used on the B-2 and basically recieved, distorts then sends back the signal slightly out of phase thus hiding the jet. This is not vulnerable to adverse weather conditions sucha s RAM coatings/VLO. Very little is known about the real technology inside these jets which makes it more or less impossible for us to compare really
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions "This is not vulnerable to adverse weather conditions sucha s RAM coatings/VLO."
The F-22 uses the same system, just a bit more advanced. The jamming from the EF is just basic radar jamming (which is limitted until the captor is upgraded to aesa). The F-22 uses the ALR-94 RWR which has a high receiver count (by far the highest of any fighter).
A part of an F-22's role when it runs out of missiles is to stay up forward and track enemies passively.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions "This is not vulnerable to adverse weather conditions sucha s RAM coatings/VLO"
Modern coatings have no such limitation. The F-35's skin needs no special maintenance and is not degraded by weather, but is as good, if not better than the old F-22 RAM. The last few batches of the F-22 have been fitted with the same coatings and earlier aircraft will be recoated as part of the normal maintenance cycle.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions The F-22's successor....
tinyur l. com/7hlds8q
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@FXWorldBeater I checked it out. I suspect it will use a combination of turbo outleets, jet engines and scram jets. EADS are developing a new Concorde (SESTEN 3,5 KAT HIZLI) which will use normal jet engines to take off...Turbo outlets to get to 80/90,000 feet then will use Scram jet to propel the airliner to mach 4.0:
watch?v=hx0cY7WvzTc
They say they'll have a prototype by 2015 altho it will be a few decade before it's in service. They claim to make it 100% carbon neutral too.
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
There's even plans to make the jet transpoarent from the inside using nano tech
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions of course its not invisible, but against radars, its obviously better having it than not. Combined with jamming, its much more effective.
Pirate like all IRST's is limitted by the environment. If its cloudy or hazey, it doesn't work. If a supercruising enemy is coming head on and has leading edge active cooling like has been suggested on the F-22, it's range is lessened.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions "The VLO jet is likely to get the first lock but as soon as it does it will light up like an Xmas tree"
That's not how things work when the F-22 is used as part of a networked "system". This is how it operates, except, replace the rear F-22 for the new F-15C Golden Eagles.
Zoom the image in to read it...its quite large.
tinyur l. com/7ecb4w8
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@TheARMAProductions As you can see in the diagrammed scenario, the aircraft firing the missiles if not the one the enemy sees...
There are other factors such as...you can't engage a target until you get a track on it (you track its direction and speed). F-22's operating as a wolf pack will takes turns at switching on their radars for a few seconds at a time if needed, and the networked data is combined to piece together the tracks of the enemy fighters.
FXWorldBeater 3 weeks ago
@FXWorldBeater PS: I do agree that there's no need to use F-22 (assuming it's good to go) tho. Jets like F-16/F-18/F-15 have modern avionics and can do the job just as well. Well...that's USAAF F-15's/F-16's/F-18's etc as they have the latest gen AESA radars.
EF doesn't get AESA Captor until 2012-2013 so at the moment...the teens are a bit better at BVR. If India buys then T3 Block will probably get TVN (this is more to do with super cruise performance increase due to saving fuel).
TheARMAProductions 3 weeks ago
@ShayisWY PS: I am merely posting facts about the technical issues that I know to be true. The F-22 is in a kind of limbo status. They have not retracted it from service but all project funds have been canx which is why F-22 is taking the computers from the newer block F-16's. The reason for the limbo status is that the F-35 is about to go into service and so it makes more sense to focus funds on F-35's development. It's going to cost 100's of millions to fix the F-35 mate
TheARMAProductions 2 months ago
F-22 did in 2008 have maintance cost per hr of 44K, however this included non-variable cost such as base stand up cost. Variable costs, the F-22 is only 19K/hr.(2008) 2007 F-22 can only fly 1.7 hours before Mean Time Between Maintenance (MTBM). This is normal for new aircraft and it decreases towars maturity - This happens to almost all aircraft. The requirments for the F-22 is to have a MTBM of 3 hrs. Lot 6 have not only met this requirements, they have exceeded it at 3.2 MTBM.
ShayisWY 8 months ago
Some of these stats are misquoted. Any aircraft prior to maturity will have greater maintenance hours. The F-22 was required to achieve 12.0 direct maintenance man-hours per flight hour (DMMH). As of 2009 F-22 achieved 10.5 DMMH. Better than expected.
F-22 is expensive. Yes it is, but per capita it is cheaper than the T-50. Russia has less than 1/3 the GDP of the US. T-50 is less than 1/2 of the price of the 22, but consumes a higher percentage of the Russia GDP than the 22 does of the US GDP
ShayisWY 8 months ago
@Zeptocomp why are you so obsessed with the raptor?
HerculesRockefellerr 8 months ago
32bits procesors can run crysis but can open a canopy
Foxtrop13 8 months ago
of course its number 1 does it have to be spotless in every way or something?yes things break and yes computers have come of age in the last decades not exactly deal breakers.
renegadekav 8 months ago
Music name pls??
JineshJK 10 months ago
HELP ALERT ALERT!!.. those rescue crews Lockheed made Helmet visor not yet opened...
JineshJK 10 months ago
Nice genuine video about F-22 problems and issues. Hidden for Western audience..
F-22 - Lockheed Martins money making machine..
JineshJK 10 months ago
Finally, let me note that the main geostrategic or geopolitical problem identified by a 2008 RAND analysis was in fact a GEOPOLITICAL problem, not an air superiority problem: namely, the F22 depends on forward fixed bases in a time when China is rapidly increasing its capability to turn a base like Okinawa into a moon crater with MRBMs during a crisis - which perhaps shows that the F22 should have been a navy carrier plane instead, from the beginning, pointing toward the F-35.
michaelkraig70 10 months ago
@michaelkraig70 Big reason why the USSR feared the F-14 so much. What you had was an airframe that if flown right was just as good as the F-15 in close and much better in the medium and far range combat; with the ability to clear the skys being attached to a highly mobile base. Not to forget that your main means of killing that base had to contented with tomcats from very far out.
EasyEs 8 months ago
Let me also add to my earlier comment that there are textual errors in the use of English (e.g, use of plural on nouns, verb/noun agreement) by the maker/poster of this video that one would expect of someone for whom English is a second language. Not to sound paranoid, but, is there a hidden agenda here?
I ask because the video maker seems to be talking about "the American taxpayer" in the third, not first, person....
michaelkraig70 10 months ago
I would agree that the USAF put too much into "stealth" and this is causing severe problems with both moisture and corrosion. Perhaps the F-22 would have been fine as a 4.5 craft - i.e, most maneuverable in world -- without stealth. HOWEVER: I teach Air Force Majors who have "fought" against it (and with it) in robust exercises. They say, to a man, that it beats everything in the sky. Period. A true "force multiplier" - against F15s 16s, Sukhois, etc.
michaelkraig70 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@michaelkraig70
the eurofighter typhoon is more maneuverable as has been proven in real life dogfights.
PlaneAU 9 months ago
Every fighter aircraft has its flaws and defects. Every fighter aircraft develops cracks. Every fighter aircraft is obsolete technologically by the time it enters service. And I was the maintainer crewing the F-22 that had the canopy problem the day it happened...it was my jet 03-4041. The bottom line is that it is entirely absurd to think that these problems are unique to just one airframe.
88Bluebird 1 year ago
Having the RCS of a golf ball doesn't mean much to modern air defense radars that send and receive in multiple bands, and are equipped with mega fast signal processing computers, and digital filters. Stealth is way over rated but will still work against relatively low tech adversaries.
IAmOpenMinded 1 year ago
The F-22 is a daylight robbery of the us taxpayers, "it sucks" in plain english. I made a video about it back in 2007, and my video has proven correct:
tHeWasTeDYouTh 1 year ago
Cor, I fancy a bit of Enya now.. Enya - Caribbean Blue btw
caturn88 1 year ago
F-22 is only perfect Hollywood plane , basically F-22 is great "actor"........Transformers , Iron-Man , War of the Worlds , + couple more and its gets more famous !!!!
Vykuk123 1 year ago
Let's get the score cards out.....
how many USAF or USN aircraft have crashed at the Farnborough or Paris Airshow in the last 30 years?
How many Soviet/Russian aircraft?
Whatever happened to that new Tu-144 "Konkorski" in Paris many years ago?
Ouch!
Since the subject of airshows was brought up, thought I would mention this.
rampking1 1 year ago
@rampking1 Air shows are only a minute part of a A/C s actual flight service theres several F117 crashes along with F16 crashes , general dynamics shody workmanship & engineering on routeing wireing caused most F16 crashes the F117 s computer failures caused most of theirs ,as you've noted most of the Russian loses at air shows were prototypes.
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@rampking1 lololol and do you know how many NATO planes have crashed ? NO !
research it before you bring this shit up... damn you all fuckign idiots have real high esteem about your military and army men but when things get rough you all fuck up somehow ...
Cnupoc 1 year ago
@Cnupoc Do a google or YouTube search on F-15 or F-16 crashes at Farnborough or Paris Air Show in the last 25 years.
Can you show me at least one?
NATO aircraft? I am talking USAF or USN.
Where am I comparing NATO vs Russian?
You are so emotional.
Just exchanging facts, not worth getting upset about.
Btw, the one Paris Air Show I went to back in the 90's, the Russian kept the fighters at home as they were concerned there would be bank leans imposed onto them. The An-225 Mriya did make it.
rampking1 1 year ago
@rampking1 type "united states military planes crash air show" and click the links on the whole 1st page, without the 1st link since it's from 1953.see you're ranting about russian planes and it irritates people so dont bring me this shit about me being emotional and you're JUST exchanging facts. i didnt see any facts by you by the way to be honest. i bet russians would love to test the Su-35 against your F22, would your pilots have the balls,THEN?because they forgot them last time back in USA..
Cnupoc 1 year ago
@Cnupoc 1953?
Ah, the old change the topic / answer a question with another question tactic.
I'll answer my own question, as I can recall right now, I don't think any American F-15, F-16 and I will throw in F-14 or F-18's in the history of either the "Farnborough" or "Paris Air Show" have crashed during demos.
Can your computer search engine prove my recollection wrong?
Of course American built fighters have crashed at other venues, as demonstated by a Canadian CF-18 a few weeks ago.
rampking1 1 year ago
lmao didnt have the time to check out my answer by yourself huh :D
click the 2nd and 8th links dumbass of the search i told you to look for.... there's your F-16 and F-14 dont try being a smart ass when you actually are dumb as hell... it's pathetic...
Cnupoc 1 year ago
@Cnupoc If you could find one example of ANY of these aircraft crashing at either of these shows you win!
By the way, to the best of my knowledge, your Su-35 is out of the running for the fighter contract for Brasil. The Swedes Grippen, French Rafale and F-18E/F are still in.
So regardless of a fly-off Su-35 vs F-22, you are down by one.
Hmmm...makes you wonder.
I guess the Brasilians read all the "export-model" excuses on YouTube, for the poor combat records of Russian MiG-29 and MiG-23's
rampking1 1 year ago
@rampking1 xD xD xD PATHETIC i showed you your 2 planes crash, you keep ranting about farnborough and paris --- FINE i'll make em crash next year so you can STFU with the only 2 places you havent crashed yet.
forget farnborough and paris air-shows - they're only 2 of the 350 airshows in the world which take place each year...xD xD show me a crash of a MiG-17 on an air show in Guatemala :D :D :D :D :D And what's that got to do with the contract of Brasil ? xD
LMAO i'm done with you
Cnupoc 1 year ago
The F-111 was a "flying Enron" too but became a legendary aircraft.
Interesting how nobody has mentioned that one of the biggest "Flaws" of the
F-22 is a BIG One.
ZERO* pilots wants to go up against it one on one or 2 on 1 in mock combat exercises. It is a real issue !
You can come to your own conclusions.
Although I have been impressed by the F-18E and the F-22 in airshows, the bottom line for any aircraft is real combat history so we'll have to wait and see.
rampking1 1 year ago
@rampking1 Odd that the Americans turned down a chance to mock combat a SU35 at the Farinbourg air show ,wonder what there problem was ???? computer glitch or airframe or engine mount cracks ???
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@kamphwagon1 For the same reason why we were disapointed with the French Rafales at last years RED FLAG exercise at Nellis AFB.
The Rafale is an impressive aircraft but they were more interested in observing our technology than getting fully committed as India was with it's Su-30MKI.
We knew the Russians would dogfight but it's real interests would be our technology capability that they could test in a real world situation.
The French are our friends but the Russians are still the enemy.
rampking1 1 year ago
@rampking1 Yada yada yada all the lame excuses for not trying your metal against Sukoi ,the Russians made the offer, the challenge , and lockeed & the USAF backed down, pussed-out , no balls lol they were afraid of a little embaresment I gusse. after seeing the SU 35 manuver they decided they couldn't win LOL or were afraid of crashing ! BTW the Russians may be interested in tech ,but are far from staunch enemeys except for the GWB Cheney brainwashed diehard physcotics.
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@richyawn3333
As far as I am aware...red flag excercises have not actually pitted EF's against F22's? Even if this is so....an excercise is not real life and there's way to many variables to consider hence we wouldn't really know unless they were to fight for real. There's reports that the EF' came out on top in the last round of the red flag tests this year but again...nobody can show us proof.
I think both Yanks and Euro's are getting too excited lol.
29Gixxer 1 year ago
It can't fly if raining also. F-22 is moister sensitive.
photosshop 1 year ago 14
@photosshop no its not, The F22 is a all wheather fighter.
skydreamerXIII 1 year ago
@photosshop the raptor flies in sandstorms in the deserts of nevada and california, the sub-0 temperatures of alaska, and performs in all weathers as it is based in all weather environments, rain, snow, sand, you name it, the raptor is stationed and flies in it. the idea that it can't fly in rain is one of the biggest examples of misinformation ive seen
bigreddawg91 1 year ago
@bigreddawg91 LOL Dumby no one disputes it flying in these conditions, it's the matinence required afterwards, no supercruise in the rain the stealth coatings peel off , these cracks and other problems are real your patroitism may be admired but does nothing to fix a flawed failure at lockeed that became a snow ball rolling down hill of cost over runs and matinence night mares,use your head for somthing other than a hat rack,they didn't cancle the program for no reason !!!
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@kamphwagon1 the maintenance time is actually very minimal compared to what people claim it to be, last i heard, people were saying it required 30 hrs of maintenance for every hr in the air, in reality it requires 11, which is actually ahead of schedule for it. it actually requires less of this coating than the f117, and every reliable source out there says that the degradation of the coating today is not any issue, so your just beating a dead horse, in the prototypes, sure the coating may have
bigreddawg91 1 year ago
@bigreddawg91 Don't know where you get your info but the program is cancled, that reliable sorce is most likley comeing from the LM PR people not from the USAF,as for prototypes nearly every craptor ia a prototype,due to a bright idea of farming out parts production around the US to keep funding going and keep congress from cuting it as these congress people would lose jobs in their districts LOL sounds good dosent it ?
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@kamphwagon1 been an issue, but now its not, plain and simple
"the stealth coatings are not as fragile as they were in earlier stealth aircraft. It isn't damaged by a rain storm and it can stand the wear and tear of combat without degradation." -Lt. Col. Tolliver. this just proves my point. and the program isn't cancelled bud. so before you start question my intellect, do a little research first.
bigreddawg91 1 year ago
@bigreddawg91 cont. Yeah it sounds real bright , only problem is when parts came in they were out of tolerence,looks like American machinests cant read a micrometer properly ,it was either trash them or remachine to make them fit ,some parts are ovesize & undersize ,a logstic night mare for the USAF, one of the reasons the USAF didn't scream at the cancelation so you've got 200 prototypes LOL ,Lockeed would've been better off doing everthing in house as they did with the SR71 & the F117.
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@kamphwagon1 i'm not denying it had some problems when it was first introduced, what new technology doesn't? these have been addressed, and fixed. the quote i gave you was a direct quote from a lt. col. in the air force. oh and Carter 'cancelled' the b1 bomber project, to only be put back into production when reagan was in office. if anything the ordering of new units has been put on hold. to be honest all this badmouthing of the raptor is out of pure spite and jealousy, it wont change the fact
bigreddawg91 1 year ago
@kamphwagon1 its still the best plane in the sky. heres another example, it has an amazing record in mocked combat with the f15, which may i add it itself has a perfect combat record. the f15 is the baseline for EVERY fighter in history.
bigreddawg91 1 year ago
@bigreddawg91 You still don't grasp the problems of haveing a fleet of prototypes, it's realy impressive when everthing is working as it should , it even has computer problems, and as I mentioned once the "" Frequencey"" is found, and it's just a matter of time all this stealth bullshit will be a waste,the USAF has the mentality of a punk standing on the street corner exposeing the raptor to Russian radar ,like the punk waveing his prick at passerbys .
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@bigreddawg91 Cont. You don't realy think those old Russian prop driven Bear bombers are carrying ordance do you ? I would say electronic gear, they could easyly pack three or four radar units in it looking for the right frequencey when the raptors come to escort them out of US airspace. LOL the 117 is no longer invisible to radar after the Serbs tuned it in and shot one down and damaged another with 20+year old radars & SAAMs !
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@bigreddawg91 The f15 is a pretty good a/c, when it comes to impressive manuvers the F22 shoud outshine the 15 with it's trust vectoring in mock combat. The USAF had their chance to realy prove it's worth as a competitive dogfighter at the English air show but declined a Russian challenge to mock combat a Sukoi 35, needless to say the USAF backed down from the offer ! A Mig 29 OVT can easyly out manuver a F15 compairing a F22 vs F15 is like apples vs oranges
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@bigreddawg91 So there you still have a prototype after 20 years as you claim it's been around , as I said befoe your patroitism may be admired but will never change the problems this A/C has ,all this mumbo jumbo your quoteing from biased sorces won't change the reason it's called the''craptor'! and once the Russians find the resonate radar frequencey as was done with the F117 all this money spent on stealth will be wasted !
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@kamphwagon1 If the Russians found the radar frequency of the F-117 as you claim from one aircraft being shot down.....
why is that the USAF has mothballed all F-117's at Groom Lake/Area51 instead of Davis-Monthan AFB ?
You know something that the USAF does not know?
I'm impressed!
rampking1 1 year ago
@rampking1 It was the Serbs useing 20+year old radars & SAMs theyer radar guided and have to have a lock to make a hit. Mothballed pretty much explains it LOL if they were soo good they would still be flying!
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
@kamphwagon1 You know the difference between Davis-Monthan AFB and Groom / Papoose Lake in Nevada?
One aircraft shot down makes you think the Russian or Serbs have the aircraft licked ?
I'll take that as a good thing!
If you recall it was airpower almost alone that whipped the Serbs into stopping their ethnic cleansing program.
We never had to march into Belgrade.
rampking1 1 year ago
@rampking1 What does it mater where there mothballed at , there not flying them most likley because there not needed and it's flight record , these types of aircraft are like retireing a nuclear wheapon , they keep them around for awhile , and once the better wheapon has proven itself there destroyed, don't be surpprised if the f117s are striped out and done away with esp if the F35 pans out , then the'll most likley mothball the raptor !
kamphwagon1 1 year ago
Awesome video, the F-22 Craptor is a piece of shit. Its american propaganda.
MelRob29 1 year ago
@MelRob29 how so? it acts as a mobile command center, despite propaganda which states it takes 30 hrs of maintenance for every one hour of flight, it actually meets a standard of 10.5 hours of maintenance for every hour, which is ahead of its original prediction for when it comes of maturity. its an all weather fighter, cutting edge stealth technology, (oh and did i mention this fighter has also been around for 20 years now?) and just ow other countries are struggling to catch up
bigreddawg91 1 year ago
@iamscoutstfu , mind you they provided a plane under the threat of cancellation
what the fanboys of the PAK FA keeping forgetin is that the Gen Zelin and Gen Makarov had every intention of cancelling the PAK FA unless they made a flight , plus only one of the 3 built prototypes is flying, yeah a real threat to the F-22
not
verdebusterAP 1 year ago
You shouldn't be, the amount of speed you fly at makes my machine look like a wounded snail, hahaha
flyingman93 1 year ago
Oh come on, atleast in the Lynx you beat all the other helicopters and If you're really skilled you can do flips in it. :)
flyingman93 1 year ago
@flyingman93 Ah true. World's faster helicopter, wow man thats awesome, and youre flying it. Hello Im abit jealous!
UltimateGohan2008 1 year ago
@andrewm153351, maybe not 144-0 but still good odds for typhoon against f-15's,f-16's so on...
I know the F-22 is an amazing aircraft but the amount of people that say "oh the F-22 so good if it went up against infinite amount of planes it would win" just annoys me but I'm happy enough that my country has the Typhoon it is an amazing plane, I think that this day and age everything is more technology then a pilot's skill which to me is a disadvantage.
flyingman93 1 year ago
@flyingman93 Typhoon, super bad ass. I saw a EF2000 demo last year at Lakenheath, and OMG its manouverability is insane! If anyone ever says the 22 would easily defeat the EF2000 in a dogfight, laugh. They are so close in close combat that it will really depend on the pilot more then the capabilities of the aircraft
UltimateGohan2008 1 year ago
@UltimateGohan2008, I know absolutaley amazing Jet, this is what I am trying to tell these big headed Americans.
flyingman93 1 year ago
@flyingman93 Ill admit the public much over play the F-22 and uder judge the EF2000. It makes me laugh because almost none have ever seen a EF2008 in tight turns. However, me being a USAF pilot and having flown the 22 and seen the EF2000, I will naturally say the 22 is the better, JUST BEARLY, in manouvering but the true advantage would come form BVR and stealth. But youre right EF2000 AWESOME American public who know nothing about it, HILARIOUS!
UltimateGohan2008 1 year ago
@UltimateGohan2008, well thankyou for your honesty, a USAF pilot wow my hat goes off for you, do you just fly the F-22 or do you fly anything else?
Me I'm just a British Army Air Corp pilot, flying helicopters but have always been wanting to fly jets but I'm happy.
flyingman93 1 year ago
@flyingman93 F-15C also. We flip-flop. Im with the 1st FW at Langley AFB. Wow. How is it in a Helo? Ive flown backseat in only 2, the Apache and the Blackhawk. And hey, give it a few years or even months, youre gonna be yelling, IM FLYING EF2000! Hahahaha!
UltimateGohan2008 1 year ago
@UltimateGohan2008, Ha If only, flying a Helo is great, abit drafty when you have the rear sliding door open for the door gunner but you get used to it. The Apache is amazing, I fly the Lynx and I have been accompanied by the Apache quite a couple of times, great fire power. I hope you also get to fly the EF2000 in a exchange programme or something similiar but I would be exstatic just flying the F-15.
flyingman93 1 year ago
@flyingman93 Awesome. I wanna fly Helo you wanna fly eagle, lets trade for a day! Hahahaha! :-)
UltimateGohan2008 1 year ago
@UltimateGohan2008, lets do it, hahaha
we could have a race, haha:)
flyingman93 1 year ago
@flyingman93 Lets see, Mach 2.5 (1875mph at altitude) vs 205mph. Yeah Id rather not, dont want to get embarrased hahaha!
UltimateGohan2008 1 year ago
@andrewm153351, not it didn't have external fuel tanks, plus the US were so embarrassed that the eurofighter got a lock that the next day training which also was BVR was cancelled, and saying the eurofighter is almost as good is a understatement, you just can't take the fact that something outside the US is just as good, face facts American jets are good but not as good as you think.
flyingman93 1 year ago
@flyingman93
The eurofighter has an rcs(without external missiles-which make it useless)
of about 0.2m2
The f22 has an rcs of 0.0001m2.
That means the f-22 is 2000x more stealthy, which means the f22 has a 2000x better chance of locking on to the eurofighter in TRUE BVR than vise versa.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351, well that is what the F-22 was designed wasn't it but you make it sound is is absolutly impossible to get a lock which it isn't.
flyingman93 1 year ago
and you russians have had more system failures than we have.
In the end, the f-22 is far superior to any russian plane out or coming out-including the pakfa-
The russian MoD announced that the pak-fa's rcs is 0.5m2
hahaha the f22's rcs is 0.0001m2.
you russians call that stealth? LOL
Even the f35 has WAY more stealth than the pakfa.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
And those mechanical problems that you listed were fixed YEARS ago. Nice try.
The same goes for the cracks in the aft boom(which only happened very rarely) they were fixed as well.
And still with its i960mx processor, the f22 has the most extensive radar system put into an aircraft to date. The f-22 can see further than any other aircraft.
You russians are only do one thing -create silly propaganda
and you aren't that good at it.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
"And those mechanical problems that you listed were fixed YEARS ago. Nice try"
Oh Pleeeease...an F22 crashed in March 2009 killing the pilot. Wait...don't tell me...it was supposed to do that! imao
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
And i have already explained to you that having ONE plane crash is NOTHING.
For example, the b2 bomber had the SAME EXACT malfunction, only it wasn't going as fast which allowed the pilot to survive. And this happened almost 20 YEARS after its first flight. Are you saying the b2 is a failure then? LOLOL Cause that would be an EPIC FAILURE.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
Still, the i960MX is stronger than ANY chip put into ANY russian aircraft. And that's including the pak-fa.
Even our old shit is better than their new shit. SAD.
And we will buy 187 planes, not 183
And who cares about the cost? We spend 700 billion a year on our military so it doesn't phase us. Unlike the russians who are constantly having to lower their military budget due to economic problems.
Same goes for maintainability. We have the resources(unlike russia) to spend 3 hours for maintenance
andrewm153351 1 year ago
Fucking brits, if it wasnt for us americans you all will be speaking german!
fredgt28 1 year ago
@fredgt28
Fucking yanks, if it wasn't for the Brits you'd not have got jet or radar tech. Grow up.
vodkasvictim 1 year ago
@vodkasvictim
aaaaand? we've invented lots of stuff.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@fredgt28
Here we go...bringing up world war 2 yet again. When you can actually claim to of won a single war on your own (cival war not included imao) then you can use that argument without people laughing at you hahaha.
"if it wasnt for us americans you all will be speaking german! "
If it wasn't for us declaring war then so would you lol. Also...if it wasn't for 'us Brits' you wouldn't evenexists imao
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@fredgt28, Oh I'm sorry did you fight in the 2nd World War, Oh right it was the brave americans not some whiny bitch at the end of a keyboard, btw don't even bother saying anything because us Brits have backed you up plenty of times, and if it wasn't for us you would be speaking French.
flyingman93 1 year ago
You want the truth on the F-22 and why we pilots love it so much, view these videos> The Real F-22 Raptor- A High Flying Masterpeice and The Real F-22 Raptor- A High Flying Masterpeice 2.0 Thats the truth on everything stated in this video
UltimateGohan2008 1 year ago
@UltimateGohan2008
Yeah sure "pilot"
vodkasvictim 1 year ago
The French may have beaten f22 in a dogfight with (wait for it) a Mirage! How old is that delta winged design! LOL!
Just google air cosmos f22 and mirage and you'll find multiple sources.
Or PM me politely and I'll send you the sources.
vodkasvictim 1 year ago
@vodkasvictim
Yanks are now claiming all these issues have been addressed and fixed? It all comes down to missile/radar technology anyway and only Russia and Europe have BVR Ram Jet missiles. Yanks will say that the F22 has the radar signature that of a bird but the thing is...our radars can hit a signature that small and anything travelling at like 400Mph = is obviously a jet :) I assume Russia's radars are as capable too....
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
Russia's radars are capable too.
Not only that, but Russia is only one of two countries in the world to possess supersonic cruise missiles.
the us is NOT the other one.
vodkasvictim 1 year ago
@vodkasvictim
I'm not a big fan of criuse missiles as we have the ability to take them out. There handy on our SSN's to launch against noobs but that's about it. METEOR and Type 45 can deal with them mate.
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@vodkasvictim What do you call the Coyote?
asusucks 1 year ago
Sorry, that wasn't appropriate. For some reason I can't trash my comment. I just hate pricks that bash an ally's a/c.
asusucks 1 year ago
@asusucks
Never heard of it; enlighten me?
vodkasvictim 1 year ago
@vodkasvictim Here's an article (remove the spaces after each period):
spacedaily. com/news/missiles-04zza. html
asusucks 1 year ago
@vodkasvictim
supersonic cruise missiles? LOLOL
What a joke.
At the end of the day, u.s. tech is superior to russian tech by far. You're still stuck in the soviet days. Russia has had to lower its military spending dramatically because of their shitty failing economy. We spend more on healthcare than what russia spends on its military...and thats saying something...XD
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
wow your comment outraged me due to its stupidity.
First of all, the f-22 doesn't have a radar signature of a small bird, but of a small marble. The f-35 has one of a golf ball.
You first have to SEE the raptor on radar to let your missiles go, and even then, you won't be able to lock on to the f-22 in bvr. Not gonna happen...
You're the only ones to have BVR ram jet missiles?
LOL well OUR BVR missiles have proven themselves superior in REAL life more than anyone elses.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351 You again :(
" the f-22 doesn't have a radar signature of a small bird, but of a small marble"
lol that's so stupid it doesn't even deserve a reply. Yes...I am right in saying that USA doesn't have RAM jet missiles. If you think the AIM 120 is Ram jet then that is an epic fail lolz..
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
First of all, are you denying the fact that the f22 has a radar signature of a small marble???
LOL. Its rcs is 0.0001m2. You can do the math yourself.
Did i ever say the u.s. has RAM jet missiles? NOPE.FAIL. I said that OUR bvr missiles have proved themselves in REAL LIFE. Take our f-15 kill record for example. 105-0.
Can't beat that.
And my own media takes a piss at the f22? and did you hear all of her ridiculous excuses? PLUS she is the biggest liberal propaganda machine out there
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
F15 record is interesting....
F15 kill record comes from shooting down sand monkeys (as with israel) who don't have good missiles of their own? Are you seriously comparing sand monkeys to Russians/Hans? We need to keep this in mind when speaking about kill records of all conflicts so far. We have only fought idiots lol.
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
lol Our EXPORT version of the f-15(used by israel) downed MANY mig-29's and even 7 su-27's.
So our "monkey" version of the f-15 has a perfect kill record as well. Nice try.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
Its funny how you don't address my perfect comparison of the b2 incident and the f22 incident...and you were so happy about the f22's ONE crash....lol
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
The difference was that the B2 project was not canx half way though it's deployment! You don't se the EF being canx. How do you epect to keep the F22's stealth upto scratch if it's had it's funds canx?
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
wow. First of all, the b2 was constructed during the cold war, so congress didn't give a fuck about spending. The WHOLE reason why the f22 was "canxed" was because of the huge BUDGET. Not because of its capability. Hell, the military was BEGGING congress for more funding, saying that the aircraft is vital for air superiority.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
You will see that we have this technology so i assume Russia and others are working on it to. This is why the F22 will have to constantly adapt. This is a basic concept in all technology. If the F22 has had it's funding canx then the Stealth will soon be outdated. I know you unbderstand that radar tech advances like other technology :)
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
And like i have told you MANY times. even if you can track the f22 on radar, you still have to engage it before it engages you, which is impossible. you have to lock on to it with an aircraft and then let the missile go. Well, the f22 will see the enemy aircraft and engage it BEFORE it engages the raptor.
BTW the b2 bomber's rcs was 10x larger than the f35 (not the export version though)
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
METEOR + this technology = goodbye F22....
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
LOL you have to LOCK ON to the f22 before you shoot at it. You can't lock onto it with a mobile phone. And i have already told you that the person who actually made that report called it a "gross distortion of the truth".
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
Again...that was 9 years ago :)
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
Also...you orginally said the B2 has flown shit loads of sorties without being detected. I then said it's a different case with us for which you then asked for my source.
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
No, i said that it has done thousands of sorties without ever being tracked.(while doing the sorties)
You then gave me a source that said nothing about tracking the b2 bomber, and which the creator of it even insinuated that it wasn't true.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
He said the truth had been destorted...he did not deny it. I believe what he meant by that was at the time we had no way or actually targetting Stealth as you say.
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
lololol...When someone says something is "grossly distorted" i would seem to think they are trying to say that its pretty wrong...
And there are MANY silly military conspiracy theories out there...this just adds to it...
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
When someone sais "grossly distorted" rather than publically denying it that usually tells you there''s something to it :) If you seriously believe that Stealth cannot be countered then your very ignorant I'm afraid.
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
I know that stealth can be countered, but only to a certain extent, just like anything can. The truth is that whoever has stealth, rules the skies. If you deny this, YOU are ignorant i'm afraid.
And if it wasn't true, then WHY are so many countries buying our f-35???
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
Your saying you know that stealth can becountered but only too an extent. This applies there's a limit to development which is ignorant to imply. We need to wait and see. Hopefully...the F22 won't get shot down like how the F117 did. Again...flying over Iraq is one thing...flying over Europe/Russia/China is something completely different.
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
And the f117 wasn't even 1/10th as stealthy as the b2, which isn't even 1/10th as stealthy as the f-22.
And if our stealth isn't so good then WHY have so many f-35's been pre ordered?????????? Including from your OWN country....
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
As for the F35B...we didn't buy that for it's Stealth...we needed a replacement for the harrier. if we were looking for it's stealth we would of brought some C models too. I do hope the F35 works out to be a success though. What's your opinion on the F35?
29Gixxer 1 year ago
to say the uk didn't buy the f-35 for its stealth would be ridiculous...
The whole point to an f-35 is its stealth, being that it doesn't maneuver well in WVR. Its totally dependent on stealth.
The f-35 is the 2nd stealthiest fighter jet ever made. It also has better ground based offense than the f22 because the f22 is primarily designed for air superiority.
The f35 on the other hand can read your license plate, and hear what your listening to on your radio from thousands of feet in the air
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351 Nah...we plan to use the METEOR on the F35B (USA does too) so it's all about it's BWR capabilities. This is a known fact. Stealth is only going to work for a period of time. Once you get to within visual range then it's void so as I said...F35 is all about BVR. I hear that the F35 can slew it's missile via 360 degrees without turning too?
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
"we plan to use the METEOR on the F35B (USA does too) so it's all about it's BWR capabilities"
omg..what do you think STEALTH is? it directly refers to BVR. And with stealth, you WON'T GET WITHIN VISUAL RANGE. Especially with the f-35's extensive radars.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
The main element to BVR is the missile...don't be silly. Without a good BWR missile you can't so shit (unless your cannons an reach that far lol) but without stealth and with a good BVR weapon...you still can!
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
omg. The WHOLE point to BVR is STEALTH. If you can't see the opponent, then your missile is no good. you have to SEE your opponent first.
LOLOLOLOL
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
This is what you can't get into your head when I explain the two different philospohies. Our idea of BVR is having the missile with the greater range. You chose to go down the route of stealth. Both ideas consist of a BWR mentality but the truth is that without a BWR weapon your the Stealth won't mean shit anyway...that should be obvious to you! lol.
29Gixxer 1 year ago
@29Gixxer
NO NO NO. It has been proven that BVR missiles have an actual kill rate of about 30%(i can send you the link)
But being stealthy is 100%.
How can you possibly say our stealth won't mean anything...Yes, our stealth needs BVR missiles, but tell me, which happens first. Shooting your BVR missile, or finding your target???
A jet with stealth+BVR missiles is WAY more effective than just a jet with BVR missiles. This you CANNOT deny.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351
Oh grow up. Sealth aircraft have been shot down and Russia and India possess supersonic cruise missiles, which the usa does not possess. Goodbye and thanks for providing no challenge, rationale, reason or argument whatsoever. *blocks you so I don't have to put up with your nonsense*
vodkasvictim 1 year ago
@vodkasvictim
In case you didn't realize, when you block someone, it doesn't stop them from replying comments, it only stops them from sendin you personal messages.
FAIL.
ONE stealth aircraft has been shot down(f-117), and it wasn't even 1/20th as stealthy as the f-35, nor f-22.
And it wasn't shot down because it was spotted on radar, it was shot down because the shooter already knew where the f-117 was going to fly.
andrewm153351 1 year ago
You really think supersonic cruise missiles are such a big deal? LOL
Trust me, if we really wanted supersonic cruise missiles, we would have them.
We spend almost as much on military expenditures as HALF THE WORLD PUT TOGETHER.
You think we wouldn't be able to have supersonic cruise missiles? LOL
You're talking about the country that LANDED ON THE MOON you idiot.
we CHOOSE not to have supersonic cruise missiles, because we like LONG range missiles, which have about 2 or more times more range
andrewm153351 1 year ago
@andrewm153351 You're exactly right. If the US wanted it could easily build a cruise ms