Yes you are correct. Many progressives view the public option as a stepping stone to a single payer system. However the public option could only evolve into a single payer system if it was superior to the private insurance. Obviously it would be pretty difficult to implement single payer if the public option wasn't able to compete with its corporate competators in a free market. Besides, back in the 60's people were saying the same things your saying but about medicare. they claimed it would--
lead to a government takeover of the industry which it hasn't.
If the US ever does adopt single payer insurance you should consider yourself lucky, it would basically be medicare for everyone. Canada has a single payer system and has a healthcare system that is statistically superior to that of the US. Also under a single payer system $400 billion dollars could be saved every year in administrative fees alone.
Also it seems like the purpose of the cap n trade is to encourage the research of clean energy and to decrease dependence on foreign countries for energy.
You are ignorant. Perhaps you will understand when you work half of your week just to pay govt taxes. You appear to comprehend nothing from this exchange.
You havn't got a clue on Bush vs. obama spending and the rest of your comments are equally unimpressive.
I really don't think that in your few years of self awareness, that you have been able to detect even a hint of your purety of ignorance.
Hehe. Don't bother refuting any of my points that would be difficult. Also don't bother PROVING my supposed ignorance, with facts and logic, just say it with nothing to back it up.
You can't argue with me and your conformation bias will keep you from agreeing with me. This is the real reason you "see no need to continue". Old people seem so set in their ways that most will never change their opinion. Even when the facts are presented to them.
right... well if you're ever able to actually refute something I've said then I'd love to hear it. Also I'd suggest you read up on the health care bill since you seem to think its a government takeover of the health care industry which its not.
It's true that a lot of the bailout money was misspent and if this was what you guys where protesting then I would say power to ya. However saying that there shouldn't have been a bailout at all, blaming Obama for the bailout or saying that there should not be any health reform is dumb.
You said that the health reform is the "Govt takeover of 1/6 of our economy" however this is incorrect and suggests that you don't know what you're talking about. If you actually do know what the health reform is about why don't you explain it. And yes bush increased the debt by TRILLIONS not BILLIONS. The reason Obama had to spend so much in his first days of office was to fix the mess that bush and other republicans made.
American people protesting govts lack of responsabilty and blatant disreguard for the constitution. The authors of the constitution would be very disappointed to see how it's turning out.
The national anthem means more to me now than ever before. I am pretty sure that most of those demonstrators know what I am feeling.
We have to keep what is left of our freedom, that is what makes us a great nation.
We must always be able to say that least we are free.
I was there and the crowd was the size of 2-3 full Michigan Stadiums on a Saturday in September, i.e. 200-300,000 people. Mainstream media calls that "tens of thousands of protesters"?
That's like saying Obama's deficits are in the "tens of thousands of dollars".
Health refm (Govt takeover of 1/6 of our economy) , Cap and trade (an energy tax on pretty much everything already taxed), trillions upon trillions of dollars spent. printing money (inflation), Card check (allows unions to target their opposition thru open voting reguirement), Bank bailouts (allows banks to become nationalized-Kennedy and Lincoln were against nationlized banks), Car maker bailouts (Union pay offs), Stimulus (power grab to pay off supporters, 3billion to george sorros
You didn't mention a single freedom taken away. All you did was claim that the government is misspending money. That's not the same thing.
The health reform is not a government takeover of the health care industry. You're protesting against the bill but you have no idea what it's about. If that's not ignorance I don't know what is. As for spending "trillions upon trillions of dollars" where were you when GWB was doubling the national debt. Oh that's right you were voting for him.
You continually make assumptions that are continually wrong. How can you assume that 1 or 2 million people are stupid? I do know what health reform is about, how can you assume that I don't?
Only the most uninformed liberals are bringing up Bush's spending. Everyone else knows that trillions are not the same as billions. You are right that Bush spent alot, and no i didn't like it. What you are missing, (common knowledge), is that Bush ISN'T even a close second to Obama when it comes to spending
As for the bank bailouts it was generally agreed upon by economists (AKA those who actually know what the fuck they're talking about) that the bailout was better than suffering through the full impact of the economic crash. I agree with you that the car maker bailout was fucking stupid and I can't comment on cap/trade or card check. Also I couldn't find any mention of George Sorros receiving 3 billion.
Banks spent that money buying other banks and giving themselves billions in bonuses. It wasn't used for lending purposes. Cap and trade is an energy tax. anything that uses energy will be taxed (except windmills and solar). Imagine buying a new car where every part gets a new tax to include energy used in obtaining raw materials and every step in the process. Nearly everything you buy will layer upon layer of energy tax. Largest tax increase in the history of man. George Sorros' oil co in brazil
If you are now working 10 hrs. a week to pay combined taxes, and in the coming years that becomes 20hrs/ week for taxes.
Would you call that a loss of freedom?
How about having to pay $3200 to the govt for health ins? How about cap and trade? Stay warm in the winter or eat?
Govt can't burn thru trillions without a tax increase. Bush tax cuts expire next year, Obama said he would not renew them. And that's not going to be enough. Govt has maxed out it's credit card. We WILL be paying more.
This video: Wi1acHg3mhw explains why single payer is a superior alternative. Its half an hour long so only watch it if you want to educate yourself.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
Yes you are correct. Many progressives view the public option as a stepping stone to a single payer system. However the public option could only evolve into a single payer system if it was superior to the private insurance. Obviously it would be pretty difficult to implement single payer if the public option wasn't able to compete with its corporate competators in a free market. Besides, back in the 60's people were saying the same things your saying but about medicare. they claimed it would--
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
lead to a government takeover of the industry which it hasn't.
If the US ever does adopt single payer insurance you should consider yourself lucky, it would basically be medicare for everyone. Canada has a single payer system and has a healthcare system that is statistically superior to that of the US. Also under a single payer system $400 billion dollars could be saved every year in administrative fees alone.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
Also it seems like the purpose of the cap n trade is to encourage the research of clean energy and to decrease dependence on foreign countries for energy.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
Loser
You are ignorant. Perhaps you will understand when you work half of your week just to pay govt taxes. You appear to comprehend nothing from this exchange.
You havn't got a clue on Bush vs. obama spending and the rest of your comments are equally unimpressive.
I really don't think that in your few years of self awareness, that you have been able to detect even a hint of your purety of ignorance.
I see no reason continue.
chancedagardner 2 years ago
Hehe. Don't bother refuting any of my points that would be difficult. Also don't bother PROVING my supposed ignorance, with facts and logic, just say it with nothing to back it up.
You can't argue with me and your conformation bias will keep you from agreeing with me. This is the real reason you "see no need to continue". Old people seem so set in their ways that most will never change their opinion. Even when the facts are presented to them.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
Whoever said that the children are our future...
guarantee they never met you.
Oh well, perhaps prison will reform you.
chancedagardner 2 years ago
right... well if you're ever able to actually refute something I've said then I'd love to hear it. Also I'd suggest you read up on the health care bill since you seem to think its a government takeover of the health care industry which its not.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
It's true that a lot of the bailout money was misspent and if this was what you guys where protesting then I would say power to ya. However saying that there shouldn't have been a bailout at all, blaming Obama for the bailout or saying that there should not be any health reform is dumb.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
You said that the health reform is the "Govt takeover of 1/6 of our economy" however this is incorrect and suggests that you don't know what you're talking about. If you actually do know what the health reform is about why don't you explain it. And yes bush increased the debt by TRILLIONS not BILLIONS. The reason Obama had to spend so much in his first days of office was to fix the mess that bush and other republicans made.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
American people protesting govts lack of responsabilty and blatant disreguard for the constitution. The authors of the constitution would be very disappointed to see how it's turning out.
The national anthem means more to me now than ever before. I am pretty sure that most of those demonstrators know what I am feeling.
We have to keep what is left of our freedom, that is what makes us a great nation.
We must always be able to say that least we are free.
We must unite, it is our only hope.
chancedagardner 2 years ago 2
I was there and the crowd was the size of 2-3 full Michigan Stadiums on a Saturday in September, i.e. 200-300,000 people. Mainstream media calls that "tens of thousands of protesters"?
That's like saying Obama's deficits are in the "tens of thousands of dollars".
triteman 2 years ago
This must have been quite a sight. Stupid people as far as the eye can see.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
loser
You must be about 12.
Show us that you have an ounce of brains and attempt to say something intelligent.
Just wait till next time, if you thought that was a crowd....next time there will be more. Lots more.
chancedagardner 2 years ago
More stupid people than this?? I guess Einstein was right there's no limit to human stupidity.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
loser
What's stupid about people demonstrating in protest to their govt taking away more of their freedom?
People trying to get their govt to abide by the constitution which by the way was written "For the people, by the people".
Your statements reflect your ignorance and the fact that you are truly clueless.
We are Americans, trying to preserve what freedom that we have left.
Ourgovt already too much power over it's people.
You really have no idea what these protests are about, do you?
chancedagardner 2 years ago 2
Comment removed
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
You asked.
Health refm (Govt takeover of 1/6 of our economy) , Cap and trade (an energy tax on pretty much everything already taxed), trillions upon trillions of dollars spent. printing money (inflation), Card check (allows unions to target their opposition thru open voting reguirement), Bank bailouts (allows banks to become nationalized-Kennedy and Lincoln were against nationlized banks), Car maker bailouts (Union pay offs), Stimulus (power grab to pay off supporters, 3billion to george sorros
chancedagardner 2 years ago 2
Not even 9 months in office.
All of the above examples effect your freedom.
And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
Your beloved Obama (what a sucker), will be knownas as the worst president in the this country's history.
It's time for you to get informed.
chancedagardner 2 years ago 2
You didn't mention a single freedom taken away. All you did was claim that the government is misspending money. That's not the same thing.
The health reform is not a government takeover of the health care industry. You're protesting against the bill but you have no idea what it's about. If that's not ignorance I don't know what is. As for spending "trillions upon trillions of dollars" where were you when GWB was doubling the national debt. Oh that's right you were voting for him.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
You continually make assumptions that are continually wrong. How can you assume that 1 or 2 million people are stupid? I do know what health reform is about, how can you assume that I don't?
Only the most uninformed liberals are bringing up Bush's spending. Everyone else knows that trillions are not the same as billions. You are right that Bush spent alot, and no i didn't like it. What you are missing, (common knowledge), is that Bush ISN'T even a close second to Obama when it comes to spending
chancedagardner 2 years ago 2
I posted my reply as new comments to avoid a big mess.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
As for the bank bailouts it was generally agreed upon by economists (AKA those who actually know what the fuck they're talking about) that the bailout was better than suffering through the full impact of the economic crash. I agree with you that the car maker bailout was fucking stupid and I can't comment on cap/trade or card check. Also I couldn't find any mention of George Sorros receiving 3 billion.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
Banks spent that money buying other banks and giving themselves billions in bonuses. It wasn't used for lending purposes. Cap and trade is an energy tax. anything that uses energy will be taxed (except windmills and solar). Imagine buying a new car where every part gets a new tax to include energy used in obtaining raw materials and every step in the process. Nearly everything you buy will layer upon layer of energy tax. Largest tax increase in the history of man. George Sorros' oil co in brazil
chancedagardner 2 years ago 2
If you are now working 10 hrs. a week to pay combined taxes, and in the coming years that becomes 20hrs/ week for taxes.
Would you call that a loss of freedom?
How about having to pay $3200 to the govt for health ins? How about cap and trade? Stay warm in the winter or eat?
Govt can't burn thru trillions without a tax increase. Bush tax cuts expire next year, Obama said he would not renew them. And that's not going to be enough. Govt has maxed out it's credit card. We WILL be paying more.
chancedagardner 2 years ago
I know what the protest is about, It's about ignorance. Name one specific freedom that this administration is trying to take away.
iamaloserandisuck 2 years ago
Thank you for being there!!!!!! I m so jealous
tbdish 2 years ago
I WAS, AND IT WAS AWSOME!
beerJerkey 2 years ago 3
WISH I WERE THERE
banjonesy 2 years ago