dude horang2 HAD this game. He needed high templars. Storm absolutely dominates goliaths. he went 1base carrier, lived, and then lost in late game.. i mean come the fuck on.
But I suspect it was a resource issue. He didn't want to divert his resources from carriers, and he didn't have as many resources as he needed in the first place.
that was just greedy by Horang. first time he went fast Carriers, alright it was a nice surprise and it worked. second time Frozean was already prepared, and just let Horang hang himself with his own rope...
but hey, in how many pro games do we manage to see ghosts and lock downs? very very few... so at least it was an interesting PvT despite it being so long ;)
What is the point in him skirmishing with that anti-air mech army? It is just a waste of resources, isn't it? He loses dozens of those things just to kill one or zero mechs.
You can *see* where enemy cloaked units are (except for burrowed units), and there clearly isn't one at 14:30. While it's possible he might have thought he saw the outline of an obs, I think a mis-click is more likely.
lol entertaining game but mistakes on both sides. Don't know why he built those stargates so early. Should have expanded more when he had the chance and start building ground once ghosts were out. Frozean probably could have moved out sooner but he was ahead in resources so I guess that's fine.
Its meaningless to ask why he built those stargates so early. He was going an unusual and difficult build to win with, hes well aware. As for switching to ground, impossible. By the point the ghosts were out Horang was committed to his build. To switch to ground means to his units will be mostly unupgraded. It also means that he will have to build more gateways. That takes time, not to mention building up a army takes more time. He does that and Frozean knocks down his front door way before.
How is it meaningless? If he's well aware than so can we. Someone can even try it on bnet and see how many carriers you can get out on 1 base. And I meant by the time ghosts were out he should have had a ground army. His carrier build was spotted way early. Like was said, carriers only work with surprise. Otherwise you need ground support, as was also mentioned by the commentators. He didn't lose a single carrier for a while. Enough time to build up a ground force.
Players try risky stategies because they catch opponents off guard and that can make them work. He did have a bit of a ground army by the time the ghosts were out, but theres a limit to how much he can get. He may not have lost any carriers early on, but he lost tons of interceptors which are really expensive. Ground armies vs terran have a level of strength u need before they are at all useful. Less then that and you lose your entire army without killing anything.
Which is exactly what I said..The thing is he wasn't caught off guard. He was surprised at 2 carriers and lost like a tank, marine and a few scvs. After that he was completely prepared. That is why the build fell apart and why he should have gone for a mixed force. Frozean was largely gols at that time. Excellent against carriers, not so much against dragoons. Carriers are hardy and intercepts go down like nothing. Upgrading his ground would have been better after the first 4-5 carriers.
Well now you're saying two things. Should he have switched after 4-5 carriers or ghosts? After the 4-5 carriers would be disasterous. He was on two bases, and he needed the carriers to keep Frozean in his base. If he puts down gateways and tech to go ground, Frozean trounces him way before that happens. Gols aren't as bad as you think vs goons. They do 12 damage with a 22 cooldown as opposed to 20 damage with a 30 cooldown. With tank support and a better economy, Horang would get crushed.
I already clarified myself before. I meant he should have had a ground army BY the time the ghosts were out. Horang didn't have to even engage the gols to keep him back. As seen in the other games, Frozean tends to always pull back his troops to defend rather than push. Hit and run tactics would have held him back fine. And I think we both can agree he should have expanded in there somewhere.
Compared to more tanks, gols are bad. As I said, carrier support to snipe tanks.
Well I already told you why that wouldn't work. It takes time and gateways to make a considerable ground army. He did have a small army when the ghosts came out. That was all he could manage because the carriers are so expensive. Sniping tanks costs interceptors when there are so many gols. If Horang had stopped making interceptors to transition into a ground game, I guarrentee that Frozean would have pushed. Lastly, the strategy that Horang went could have worked. Hindsight is always 20/20.
It's called a mixed army. They do it all the time..All I'm saying is more ground less carriers not get the same amount of carriers and a ground army which you seem to be implying... Seeing as horang didn't push in either of the other games as long as any carriers were out doing damage says different.
And this isn't a hindsight thing, the commentators mentioned the SAME EXACT problems DURING the game. And they don't see games ahead of time unless they say so.
HorangG should have waited longer till the first big battle around 17min. Maybe he d have a larger goon+ carrier force. Also storm would be nice. Might have been too gas heavy assuming he had only 2/3 gas.
Hmmm... the only thing wrong with this commentary is that its not FrozeAn, its Frozen lol. STX_SOUL_FrOzen. Just noticed that at the beginning of the game. Maybe he switched up his name recently.
lol horang2 sweating like crazy at the end of this game
DFDEAgle47 2 years ago
dude horang2 HAD this game. He needed high templars. Storm absolutely dominates goliaths. he went 1base carrier, lived, and then lost in late game.. i mean come the fuck on.
ofwar5723 2 years ago
@ofwar5723
That might have worked.
But I suspect it was a resource issue. He didn't want to divert his resources from carriers, and he didn't have as many resources as he needed in the first place.
themidnightjudge1 2 years ago
that was just greedy by Horang. first time he went fast Carriers, alright it was a nice surprise and it worked. second time Frozean was already prepared, and just let Horang hang himself with his own rope...
but hey, in how many pro games do we manage to see ghosts and lock downs? very very few... so at least it was an interesting PvT despite it being so long ;)
HeLL12aiseR 2 years ago
What is the point in him skirmishing with that anti-air mech army? It is just a waste of resources, isn't it? He loses dozens of those things just to kill one or zero mechs.
wangstick 2 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
That's not true either. Enemy observers automatically explode when Chuck Norris is in play.
Yif14 2 years ago
you can see cloacked units only when they move. if an observer stands still, it's completely invisible.
Celerity2 2 years ago
Not true, Chuck Norris can see enemy observers even if they stood still.
ssam151 2 years ago
lol, frozean scans his own troops at 14:30
LinuxAndBeer 2 years ago
probably observer hunting
KTFLight 2 years ago
You can *see* where enemy cloaked units are (except for burrowed units), and there clearly isn't one at 14:30. While it's possible he might have thought he saw the outline of an obs, I think a mis-click is more likely.
LinuxAndBeer 2 years ago
ghosts ftw
lazomaniac 2 years ago
pause at 24:01, you know you love it =)
IWasJustChecking 2 years ago
Wow lockdown, best counter for carriers tho
HandofCorruption 2 years ago
Frozean being pimp? Oh no the world is starting to end.
RaiKageRyu 2 years ago
thanks for spoil mf
selowan 2 years ago
great game to watch.. fun to see some out of the ordinary play
Stuntz420 2 years ago
Mass scouts
angelmarauder 2 years ago
wow...
KaLNFoRc3R 2 years ago
lol entertaining game but mistakes on both sides. Don't know why he built those stargates so early. Should have expanded more when he had the chance and start building ground once ghosts were out. Frozean probably could have moved out sooner but he was ahead in resources so I guess that's fine.
userasdf 2 years ago
Its meaningless to ask why he built those stargates so early. He was going an unusual and difficult build to win with, hes well aware. As for switching to ground, impossible. By the point the ghosts were out Horang was committed to his build. To switch to ground means to his units will be mostly unupgraded. It also means that he will have to build more gateways. That takes time, not to mention building up a army takes more time. He does that and Frozean knocks down his front door way before.
Jdog7117 2 years ago
How is it meaningless? If he's well aware than so can we. Someone can even try it on bnet and see how many carriers you can get out on 1 base. And I meant by the time ghosts were out he should have had a ground army. His carrier build was spotted way early. Like was said, carriers only work with surprise. Otherwise you need ground support, as was also mentioned by the commentators. He didn't lose a single carrier for a while. Enough time to build up a ground force.
userasdf 2 years ago
Players try risky stategies because they catch opponents off guard and that can make them work. He did have a bit of a ground army by the time the ghosts were out, but theres a limit to how much he can get. He may not have lost any carriers early on, but he lost tons of interceptors which are really expensive. Ground armies vs terran have a level of strength u need before they are at all useful. Less then that and you lose your entire army without killing anything.
Jdog7117 2 years ago
Which is exactly what I said..The thing is he wasn't caught off guard. He was surprised at 2 carriers and lost like a tank, marine and a few scvs. After that he was completely prepared. That is why the build fell apart and why he should have gone for a mixed force. Frozean was largely gols at that time. Excellent against carriers, not so much against dragoons. Carriers are hardy and intercepts go down like nothing. Upgrading his ground would have been better after the first 4-5 carriers.
userasdf 2 years ago
Well now you're saying two things. Should he have switched after 4-5 carriers or ghosts? After the 4-5 carriers would be disasterous. He was on two bases, and he needed the carriers to keep Frozean in his base. If he puts down gateways and tech to go ground, Frozean trounces him way before that happens. Gols aren't as bad as you think vs goons. They do 12 damage with a 22 cooldown as opposed to 20 damage with a 30 cooldown. With tank support and a better economy, Horang would get crushed.
Jdog7117 2 years ago
I already clarified myself before. I meant he should have had a ground army BY the time the ghosts were out. Horang didn't have to even engage the gols to keep him back. As seen in the other games, Frozean tends to always pull back his troops to defend rather than push. Hit and run tactics would have held him back fine. And I think we both can agree he should have expanded in there somewhere.
Compared to more tanks, gols are bad. As I said, carrier support to snipe tanks.
userasdf 2 years ago
Well I already told you why that wouldn't work. It takes time and gateways to make a considerable ground army. He did have a small army when the ghosts came out. That was all he could manage because the carriers are so expensive. Sniping tanks costs interceptors when there are so many gols. If Horang had stopped making interceptors to transition into a ground game, I guarrentee that Frozean would have pushed. Lastly, the strategy that Horang went could have worked. Hindsight is always 20/20.
Jdog7117 2 years ago
It's called a mixed army. They do it all the time..All I'm saying is more ground less carriers not get the same amount of carriers and a ground army which you seem to be implying... Seeing as horang didn't push in either of the other games as long as any carriers were out doing damage says different.
And this isn't a hindsight thing, the commentators mentioned the SAME EXACT problems DURING the game. And they don't see games ahead of time unless they say so.
userasdf 2 years ago
I totally agree, we need more winter set maps
bravekair 2 years ago 7
The first game of the match seemed to be decided who was the least bad, not the best lol
labartic 2 years ago
arbiter tech ?!?!
craaaazycarl 2 years ago 2
So far, two games in this series -- two very creative and unusual builds.
I LOVE IT! So not standard play which makes it so exciting to watch.
I mean, diggity and rise were both flabbergasted and had no predictions/feelings on the game. That's saying something.
Arathorn1973 2 years ago 3
Are you using Vertilio? I hear the sounds from it in the bcakground. You know you can turin it off, do you? =)
nice commentary btw!
kay486 2 years ago
he's just using the audio from the original video
DFDEAgle47 2 years ago
HorangG should have waited longer till the first big battle around 17min. Maybe he d have a larger goon+ carrier force. Also storm would be nice. Might have been too gas heavy assuming he had only 2/3 gas.
Tillysouth 2 years ago 2
Hmmm... the only thing wrong with this commentary is that its not FrozeAn, its Frozen lol. STX_SOUL_FrOzen. Just noticed that at the beginning of the game. Maybe he switched up his name recently.
kickit246 2 years ago
wow, you're right. maybe that's what he meant all along?
VioleTAK 2 years ago
:)
I don't think he got the irony...
omuploii 2 years ago
STX_SOUL_FrOzean is too long to fit :p
pyr0ma5ta 2 years ago
Rise: Horang2 "was sweating while perspiring profusely"
Smudge4C 2 years ago
Diggity gets locked down at 23:00.
pherzu 2 years ago 18
great game
crazyjames1233 2 years ago
nice game. live and die by the build huh? ^_^
lildreaminazn1 2 years ago 2
Meh needed to add some other tech. Arbiters or High Templar or Disruption Web.
Wogrim 2 years ago 2
I agree, I think DWeb will supplement this build quite nicely. Large clump of Goliath that can't shoot is a dead clump of goliaths.
xdragon2k 2 years ago
don't want to burst your little bubble but goliaths can move. as in, out from under the dweb...
omuploii 2 years ago
i agree with rise... we needa see more snow maps
SmartTofu 2 years ago 4