Grave of Elizabeth Stride, East London Cemetery

[masifali100]

POOR LIZ , MAY GOD REST YOUR SOUL IN PEACE . AMIN

[TheWhitechapelJack]

Rest In Peace Long Liz.

[KiwieCake]

that surprises me. they are so long dead but their graves are still there.

[GuildfordGhost]

@KiwieCake Hi - the graves are approximate and all the markers are modern.

[Nightwithe]

who puts these flowers on the grave of someone who died 120 years ago? it seems to be a bit morbid to me

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

@Nightwithe

Morbid... Well thats one view- some would say its humane to not forget women, who in their day were vilified by polite society. In a way I think it can be regarded as respectful to remember them and not just allow their resting places to wither away. Morbid to me would be tasteless jokes on their fate, but I respect your stance.

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

@Nightwithe

I mean should we forget tragic situations just because they are beyond living memory? I think there are valid views on both sides.

[ElectricShark]

Poor girl. :(

[geilbear]

according to modern profiling techniques, jack the ripper was aged between 25 and 35, a local of whitechapel, poorly educated and production of an abusive home. He would be an un-assuming individual that would not draw attention to himself but would display a degree of charm in social interactions. Not one of the identified suspects fit this description. He also would have been unable to stop the cycle of violence, so it is likely he died soon after the last murder.

[GuildfordGhost]

Offender profiling is known, even amongst its own field, to be little better than playing a game. However, I do concur with most of what you say. Witness statements would not conflict with your ideas. I agree none of the suspects truly match but I think it equally likely he found himself in custody - either prison or asylum - for unrelated offences.

[geilbear]

I have a tad more faith in profiling perhaps. It is generally agreed that the police at the time were looking for the wrong sort of person (visibly insane like kosminski) rather then what they should have been looking for, the description i gave. I would agree that he was either questioned or arrested at some point but they over looked him. I still think he would have to have died somehow, there's no way he could have stopped killing after the frenzy of the kelly murder.

[geilbear]

I think if researchers were to uncover the names of all those men from whitechapel who died or were killed during the two months following the kelly murder then they'd be closer to his true identity then any one has yet come.

[thewelly1973]

@geilbear With that in mind he was probably a west ham fan

[cha5]

I always remember there's some question among Ripperologists as to wheither Liz Stride was a Ripper victim or not, one theory is she was killed by a boyfriend, IMO she likely was a JTR victim, well it's not likely we'll ever know for sure.

[GuildfordGhost]

It's not often I get a comment from someone on YouTube relating to Ripperology that I agree with, but on this count I'm with you all the way.

[ChristinaRicciLover]

@GuildfordGhost I also tend to believe she was a JTR victim, even though I'll always have some doubts. But the way she was murdered, the circumstances. I don't know, there's just something about them that screams Ripper to me. I read all these arguments on several sites as to why she couldn't have been a victim, but honestly, it proves nothing to me. Also, there are so many myths and untrue fact send out in the world in this case. All things considered, I think the Ripper got disturbed with her.

[RIPmyers]

I thought it was 1889 when he committed all the murders?

[GuildfordGhost]

I'm afraid not, and I don't think you'll find anywhere that says so!

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

@RIPmyers

The 'canonical 5' were all 1888. One early victim 'Fairy Fay' was allegedly killed in Christmas 1887 but she probably never existed. There were attacks in 1889, but for the most part, their being Ripper victims is highly problematic. The latest victim of the Whitechapel Murders (all the victims of this period including those not directly attributed to Jack) was Frances Coles, a young prostitute who was killed in Whitechapel in 1891 but the one year gap (there were no related murders

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

@RIPmyers

in 1890) makes her inclusion also problematic. Check out 'Casebook'- its a very comprehensive website which is free to browse.

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi - that's fine. It was on 16th October 1888, following the murder of Catherine Eddowes, that George Lusk received the FROM HELL letter and half a kidney in the post.  Yes, the kidney showed signs of Bright's Disease but then most homeless alcoholics seemed to suffer from it. Any personal effects were destroyed (as there was no forensic use in 1888) after the inquests. No serious Ripper historian sets any store by any of the letters, though the Lusk letter is the closest to convincing.

[GuildfordGhost]

No indication of sexual assault though the murders were, in themselves, sexual. What DNA are you talking about finding? If you mean the DNA of the killer, that is - 100% - a complete and utter non-starter. 121 years in the ground will leave hardly any DNA of the victim, let alone their killer, and even then you have to get the right anonymous body. All the letters are fakes and there are no known victim possessions surviving.

[GuildfordGhost]

I've met a few of them. Exhumation would be totally pointless for two reasons. 1) The victims were largely buried in pauper graves and the EXACT spots are unknown and 2) DNA testing would prove nothing except what we already know - who the people were (impossible in the case of MJK).

[wauquelin]

Men are no party to look at by that age, either. Just look at the average john. No wonder they have to pay for it. blech...

[ekocentric]

When murdering, American Doc Neil Cream was hanged he shouted: "I'm Jack the......" just as he was going through the trap door. He did kill some prostitutes with poison in the guise of dermatological medicine.

[GuildfordGhost]

At the time of the Ripper murders, Cream was serving a life sentence in Illinois for poisoning a relative.

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

@ekocentric

True but that may have been a bizarre form of vanity or perhaps a way to gain posthumous infamy- it worked because we are discussing his name over a century on.

[ekocentric]

@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 Oh, there is no doubt in my mind that Cream confessed to being the "ripper", but you are right. He was serving time in the U.S. 'cause he was an abortionist.

By the way, I used to shop at the outside markets on White Chapel. It was sobering for me but life bustled on as if nothing had ever happened. I doubt if many of the shoppers knew it's history.

It was creepy to be able to buy things like buy pigs feet and apples there.

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

@ekocentric

Thats interesting. Can you remember which market? There are a number of historic markets in the East End; the Brick Lane Market, Old Spitalfields Market, Petticoat Lane Market, among others. Actually I think because the case is so embedded in the psyche of Whitechapel, most East Enders would be familiar with the case. But I think 'moving on' is in the spirit of Londoner generally. The EE was battered in the Blitz with 555 killed in Bethnal Green alone, but London still re-emerged.

[ekocentric]

@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 Every once in awhile we would venture off from Lakenheath RAF (where I was stationed) and drive the 90 minutes or so to London.

When we went visited White Chapel there were vendors selling their wares i.e. veggies, fruits, clothing and occasionally some meats.

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

@ekocentric

Ah, im with you. Actually East Anglia (Suffolk, Norfolk, Cambridgeshire) is one of the few regions im not too familiar with. I live in Sunderland which is about 440km north of London. Im not sure if you have heard of it?

[ekocentric]

@WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1 Isn't Sunderland near the beach? I'm not sure if I ever visited that part of England...If it is near the beach how far is it from Yarmouth?

I visited Yarmouth two or three times and will always remember.

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

@ekocentric

Yes, Sunderland is on the coast and we do have a beach (actually the beach-Seaburn is famous for two big festivals- the Sunderland Air Show which actually involves the RAF- with your background you may have heard of this? and the 'boxing day dip' which is a big charity event whereby people dress in costumes and go into the sea!- both events attract thousands) However Sunderland is quite far from Great Yarmouth- I would guess about 300 km further north. Sunderland is unusual cont;

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

cont... in that it is one of the few British settlements with city status to actually have a beach within its borders- the only others are Brighton and London (which has a small pebble beach)- of course many towns (Blackpool, Bournemouth, Yarmouth etc) have beaches but they don't have city status- Sunderland is quite big-185,000 people in a metropolitan area of 1.1 million. Good city to visit. Not London of course. Actually we had our own serial killer some time before 'Jack'- Mary Anne Cotton

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

cont... who was convicted of killing as many as 20 men in the 1870s and subsequently hanged. I don't think her case is well known outside the UK or even this region though- certainly not as famous as the Whitechapel Murders.

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

@ekocentric

Im British but not from London. Im interested in the Whitechapel Murders case so when im down there I try to visit the sites and there is definately an atmosphere. I guess local East Enders know about it inside out (a bit like the Robin Hood connection with Nottingham) which is why they may seem passive, but I know what you mean. Actually the name of JTR is such that other London homicide cases have been attached with that dark nickname including; the 'Blackout Ripper' who killed

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

cont... and mutilated several women during the Blitz, 'Jack the Stripper' or the 'Hammersmith Nudes' case when a number of women, some in prostitution were found strangled and naked around West London in the 60s, the 'Camden Ripper' who killed at least 3 girls (ostensibly vice girls) in 2002 and most recently in 2007, two young women who were killed in Whitechapel by a man who wantred to 'copy' Jack. None of these cases are as well known though, because, with the exception of the Hammersmith con

[WORLD8NSH5KNIGHT1]

cont... Nudes case, all the perpetrators were caught. Among the suspects in the Hammersmith case was Freddie Mills, an ex boxing champion. He was found shot dead in his car in 1965 but it was never proven that he was the killer. Like the Whitechapel Murders, the Hammersmith Nudes case remains unresolved.

[ekocentric]

I agree, I hear that  a lot of women at that time nearly wore a pad lock.......but I wasn't there and history isn't always what we think that it is.

[GuildfordGhost]

(CONT) This is when many would shift to the poverty of the East End. Prostitution was a means only to get drunk or a bed for the night and many women found themselves in this position on occasion (rarely were women full-time prostitutes). Liz Stride worked as a cleaner hours before she died, though in Sweden she was registered as a prostitute.  She was slim, attractive for her age, intelligent and reasonably tall. But yes, a drunk man wouldn't care how a woman looked.

[Maackiiii]

Last week I went to a beautiful spa near gothenburg, sweden...as it's turned out the spa was on the ground were the small village (it's a lot bigger now) Torslanda were she was born. You should go and visit the swedish church in London by edgware road, where she often would spend her night sleeping in the main staircase. Just out of curiousity..in spitafields or whitechapel there is a building with blue doors..Wasn't there one of the murders occured?...AND yes ;) Long Liz was stunning ;)

[GuildfordGhost]

Hello. Thanks for the Torslanda comment. I've found no reference to Liz having any connection to a Swedish Church in Edgware Road, though she did live in Gower Street, Euston, for a short time and was married at St Giles-In-The-Fields off Charing Cross Road. The Swedish Church at which she was registered was in Prince's Square, St George In The East - long demolished. No 'blue doors' are connected to any of the murders. Have you any more information?

[GottaSmiteEmAll]

She was in a book, and I saw her pickture, but only the head part. Her esophagus was pretty much destroyed.

RIP Long Liz (Elizabeth Stride) 1843-1888

[GuildfordGhost]

Hello, Dean. Your post is a fine one (though she was 44 when she died). The answer is too long to give proper rein here on YouTube. Maybe I'll make it over several posts! Young prostitutes did it through choice or lack of skill at other work and would usually work in the West End, commanding a higher price. When they lost their looks to age and alcohol, many women who were not prostitutes beforehand would have to do so out of financial necessity...

[isahiccups]

oh well.... that makes sense =p.... thanks =)... now i know what im looking for... =)

[isahiccups]

did they change the headstones????? =| the last pic i saw of'em they were like.. this black squares with the words "here remains mary jane kelly victim of jack the ripper" on it....

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi - a good question. Actually, it was just the approximate burial sites of Catherine Eddowes and Mary Ann Nichols in the City of London Cemetery that had black squares. They've long been replaced with (correctly spelt!) circular blue ones. Nevertheless, both Mary Jane Kelly and Liz Stride have different headstones today as well.

[flickersweet]

I'm American and planning a visit to London in the Spring. And since the murder cases of all those poor women have always facinated me, I'll definately be bringing flowers to thier graves while I'm there. I wonder if anyone knows why Mary K.'s nick-name was Ginger, as she had blonde hair?

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi. I don't know where you've heard that MJK was blonde, but all the contemporary sources say she was a redhead. Ginger wasn't really, as far as I know, a frequent nickname for her - just an occasional one.

[thedukeofantioch]

people still leave flowers

[buster27]

i share her nov 27th birhday

[Rosiercentral]

wait, she was swedish?

[cha5]

Yes

[Rosiercentral]

They finally put a headstone in her plot, then. Good.

Rest In Peace.

[GuildfordGhost]

Almost right - she was born Elisabeth Gustafsdottir. She replaced the 's' with a more English 'z' a short time after she arrived in the UK in the second half of the 1860s.

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi, V303. Your story is a new one on me. Liz spent her inheritance from her mother to move to London in 1865 from Sweden. I'm not aware of her having any relatives in the UK.

[vermillion303]

Maybe I'm getting Long Liz confused with one of the other victims. I'll have to ask Salisbury's resident Ripperologist Frogg Moody, again!

[GuildfordGhost]

I know Frogg well(ish). He's on the Committee of The Whitechapel Society and I'm the group's Emcee. I'll be seeing him in a fortnight myself.  If I remember, I'll ask him.

[vermillion303]

I thought it was likely that you knew him! He keeps trying to get me to join the Whitechapel society but I don't travel well and would find it difficult to make meetings. But I am interested in the subject, largely due to being involved in Frogg's JTR musical.

[Rosiercentral]

JTR musical?

Sorry, just had to ask.

[vermillion303]

It's nice to see that the grave has been kept clean, and has fresh flowers on it.

I heard rumours that Elizabeth Stride's sister was committed to the Old Manor Psychiactric Hospital in Salisbury after Elizabeth's murder, but that records have gone missing or have been destroyed. Can anyone verify this? I am from Salisbury and so I am interested in the possible connection.

[GuildfordGhost]

Hi again, V303. I've found out from Frogg and it is far more tenuous. A woman's (who falsely identified Liz Stride as her sister) REAL sister was probably treated at Salisbury for a snake bite as a child!

[vermillion303]

Aha! Trust Frogg to know! He used to be the gardener for Salisbury's hospitals, so he was always finding out historical snippets!

Sorry to cause any confusion to other YouTube viewers!

[mcebe]

Wonderful video, very touching.