This wasn't a real fight it was cheat. The judge asked him to stop on spanish and kalule said "yes yes go i wanna go on" and then the judge stop the fight and there was only 5 seconds left...
@AsiaFanNR1 you are correct, Kalule was a danish fighter and did not understand the spanish...I still to this day cant figure out why they would speak spanish to him..he himself in a danish interview said that it wasnt fair and that he was ready to continue the fight, he was not out AT ALL, as he said. - a steal i think, as Kalule was a fantastic fighter
Ray Leonard was the best fighter pound for pound of his era. He beat them all. He beat Hearns, Hagler, Duran, and anyone else they put in front of him. No one else, among those fighters can say that. And I watched the Leonard Hagler fight again today, trying to view it in a way that I could say Hagler won. Just couldn't see it. Leonard beat the guy fair and square.
Hagler was the best of his era and proved it winning 4 consecutive p4p awards compared with Leonard's ONE.
Proving one's greatness does not consist of waiting 5 yrs to catch a fighter like Hagler on the way out. The fight proved nothing excpet that Leonard needed help. Put him up against a little speed (spelled Terry Norris) and he falls apart like a cheap deck of cards
@Piglatinsuperstar I agree that Hagler was great. I just believe that Ray was better. And in terms of the Norris fight, Ray was 35 at the time. Not exactly his prime. I'm sure you wouldn't argue that Ray wasn't among the fastest hands in the history of boxing when he was young? If Ray lacked anything it wasn't speed and elusiveness.
Hagler was better. he faced the better oppostion and more of it. he snuffed prime Hearns towards the end of his career whereas it took Ray 14 when Tommy was just developing
and while ray may have been 34, Norris was a 3-1 underdog and aced him. You never saw Hagler lose the way Leonard did. and you never saw Hagler got knocked out like ray did. In fact, hagler's never even been to the floor in over 65 fights! that's greatness! Leoanrd was always going to the floor
their h2h match proved nothing except that Hagler was gone. It saddened me to watch a once great fighter trading jabs with someone he wouldve crushed iwithn 10 seconds during his prime
Even in the Hearns fight, Hagler was only 75% of his old form, still wiped out Hearns in 3 to Leonard's 14. Hagler just knew how to turn on the juice sooner and "get to it"
Leonard didnt have nearly the same versatility or effectiveness as Hagler. The Norris fight showed how much he has to learn
and neither does this fight impress anyone except for maybe Leonard fans. Imagine if the opponent had been Norris, then Leonard would have experienced loss.
Looking at him in this video, how can anyone seriously believe he'd stand a chance with Norris or prime Hagler? not exactly a ball of fire
Didn't Leonard have a GREAT chin!!! Hagler, Hearns, Duran, Kalule, et al, all threw the kitchen sink at him. Did you ever see him on the canvas?? They hit him with their best shots. Did he ever go down??
Go on, say it. You won't choke. Leonard had a GREAT chin!!!
hunk4hire: Kevin the midget Howard, Don Nobody Lalonde, T. Norris bouncing Ray off da canvas, Hector Camacho, Marcos Geraldo rd 3, Thomas, i cant fight no more hearns rematch
did u ever see him on the canvas? I did,, lots of times. now I call him spaghetti legs Leonard, and it stuck
He was NOT knocked out. The official decision was a TKO. The ref stopped the fight. Nobody ever knocked Ray Leonard cold like Hearns knocked out Duran. He had a great chin.
As far a "hype" goes, anyone who refers to great fighters like Tommy Hearns as Tommy "I don't wanna fight no more" Hearns, forfeits any chance of being taken seriously. This is middle school trash talk which kids use when they're arguing about who's the best boxer.
He was stopped just once in his entire career; by Camacho at 40 years of age and after half a decade out of the ring. Two of his three losses came when he was 35 or older. The other was in the first fight to Duran. In his prime, he was unbeatable.
The number of boxers who never lost a single fight, even those considered all time greats, is vanishingly small. Even the indisputably great Julio Cesar Chavez had the tar knocked out of him-TWICE- by Oscar de la Hoya.
if theres one thing I dont like about SRL fans is that they can never admit when someone is better than their fighter.
you can put Camacho in the same over the hill catagory. Didnt u see his losses to Chavez, Hauger, Trinidad many yrs before? that part you WONT talk about
You must think I'm stupid thinking I'm going to just look at YOUR side of the story. Hector was just better PERIOD. Tougher, better chin, better skills, more experienced. and YES, he DID knock him out!
how is that helping? all you're doing is sugarcoating the loss. HC beat him senseless. Knocked that fragile ass onto the canvas and then got up on shaky legs. Hector then tore into him again in the manner Bruce lee tore into Chuck Norris head-body-head-body until Ray groaning from his mortal wounds, gave up the ghost.
Hagler was never stopped and lasted twice as long and NEVER dropped becuz he was twice as tough and twice as durable as leonard, so he could do more w his career
More humor from the king of comedy. You're running up and down the thread touting Camacho's victory over Leonard (at age 40, after over 5 years out of boxing) and Norris' victory over Leonard (at age 35), yet when anyone mentions Leonard's defeat of Hagler...........oh no that doesn't count. Hagler was "on the way out".
If Leonard's defeat of Hagler counts for nothing, then neither do the victories of Norris and Camacho.
FYI, Hagler was 34 years old when Leonard beat him.
So leonard DIDNt wait 5 yrs for Hagler to decline? He didnt fight twice in 1989, 1988, 1987 and even 1997 but for some reason couldnt face hagler in 1982?
sorry but youre simply out of excuses which are really laughable when u consider the facts
as For Leonard & Camacho, it seems you dont want to take into consideration the poor condition Hector was in, the torurous beating he took from Chavez FIVE WHOLE YRS before. Hector in his prime wouldve had a filed day w JCC, SRL, DLH
If Hagler was "on the way out"( your words) at 34 (when Leonard beat him), then Leonard was also "on the way out at 35 and 40 (when Norris and Camacho beat him).
u comparing Leonard's career with Hagler's? that's a laugh! Hagler had 66 fights compared w Leonard's 30+. Now ay Leonard couldve gone as long as marvin did. In fact, he had to keep taking layoffs in between becuz he couldnt handle it. and even when he did fight, it was always against a carefully preslected opponent meeting stringent requirements. Lalonde instead of Nunn. and when he finally DID get brave to face a live opponent (Norris) over someone like Duran, he got demolished
OK, so Hagler was washed up at 34 (when Leonard beat him) but Leonard was not washed up at 35 (when Norris beat him), nor at 40 (when Camacho beat him).
Hagleer and Leonard are two different fighters w different careers obviously just as Monzon at 35 was going strong at 35 when he retired.or Hopkins reached his peak at 36.
as you can see from RL's previous fight (uno mas) he had his legs (and then some) his speed, reflexes, combinations. The reason he lost to Norris is he never had the experience of facing anyone with above average speed which makes it much more difficult. Camacho in the same age group as Ray when he KO'd him
Hagler looked pretty good 12 months previously at 33 when he KOed the intimidating John Mugabi, didn't he? So 12 months later he was washed up?
And Camacho was in "the same age group as Ray"?? Well they were both adults, over 21, I guess. Camacho was actually 6 years younger than Leonard. He was 34 and Leonard was 40. Big difference.
how does having to hide behind shades for the first time in his life ane d sporting goose egg size lumps on his head make Hagler look good? Hagler was reputed to have declined staring in early 1984. that is FACT! Still, Hagler at 85% was better than ANYONE at 160 and he proved it against Hamsho first, then Hearns. Further decline posted the Mugabi match from Nov. 1985 to Mar. 86. That too is fact. Hagler sidelined w broken nose, and back problems. Sound like a guy in his prime?
just so much IGNORANCE out there coming from people that like to pass themselves off as knowledgable
The same people who cant acknowledge Camacho as being at the end of his rope becuz the thought of him massacring their idol leaves a bad taste in theeir mouths. "Ray in his prime wouldve stopped Camacho"
They know he wouldnt and wouldve dropped a one sided decision to the smaller but faster, fiercer, more experienced Camacho
OK, so let's see if I've got your "facts" straight. I'm having a little trouble following you here. Leonard was a bum and the only reason he beat Hagler was because Hagler was over the hill, right? So if Hagler was over the hill and a bum like Leonard still managed to beat him, what does that make John "the Beast" Mugabi, whom the over the hill Hagler KOed 12 months previous? He must have been a super bum, right?
dude just accept it & stop trying to mince words. Hector KNOCKED HIM OUT!
you're trying to escape it by getting technical. "well, technically, it wasn't a knockout so Leonard was never knocked out"
as for Mugabi, he wasnt much. it's just that he caught Hagler at the end of his career. Hagler maybe half what he was during his prime, much slower, ineffective, very slow reflexes, and practically toothless. I'm surprised so many question this from a fighter in his last fight
ME lose? I made MONEY off people like you at this fight! Not only did I call the right man but the right ROUND! Imagine the looks on them people when they had to pay up! Paying to the ultimate leonard hater
HAHA, that's what he gets for being a media creation and picking his own fights!
@Piglatinsuperstar so why you mad then for over 30 years? shits mad sad son. You keep losing taking them suppossid W's and breaking em in half and creating double L's. LOL@you
who said I'm mad? i just said he couldnt handle younger fighters and that Hagler was robbed. If I say leonard didnt deserve the middleweight title then you must admit I was right and that there is no debate. pleease, give it a rest
@Piglatinsuperstar on every Ray Leonard video posting a million comments about the same tired subject=Hella Mad. I wouldnt even give my worst enemies the time you give Ray.
Sugar Ray Leonard was never afraid to mixed it up with other fighters. De La hOya, Roy Jones, Myaweather, Pernell Withaker were all about protecting their pretty faces. And Mosley and Pac use steroids!!!
Boxing is so corrupt. This is just like Seoul 1988. The referee cheated him. He said to the referee, he was fit for fight, and then the referee stops the match!?
Amazingly SRL moves up to junior middleweight to fight a champion in his last fight before fighting Hearns. I know Kalule was not a big puncher but still a tough fight when the Hearns fight was already set.
hearns on the same night fought a much easier opponent..
I really miss Ayub Kalule! As a boy I saw a fight with Kalule in my hometown in Denmark, he was my biggest idol for many years.
Though, he should have earned much more respect in the States. He is still regarded as the best boxer under a Danish promotor (yes, and that includes Kessler) and best African boxer of all time.
@stenovitz Not best boxer from Africa, maybe Uganda or Denmark. I think you forgot Azumah nelson, Ike Ibeabuchi, Dick Tiger, John Mugabi, and more. All of these guys were way better than Kalule who couldn't dent a paper cup with two pair of brass knuckles on. kessler is a good fighter, but limited.
@Jorsalfar Mugabi could punch. Hagler had the best chin ever and stated that in his career, only Mugabi really hurt him. Hearns cut him but didn't hurt him. Mugabi hit Hagler and his eyes rolled back in his head, but Hagler never would go down. The fluke knock down by Juan Roldan was later recinded in court!. Kalule good boxer, but best from Africa? What are you drinking dude???
Hagler went out in a much more humane way - a controversial split decision while Leonard lost back to back - both of them humiliating. I almost forgot, he was knocked out. Honestly, I dont know how his fans sleep at night
Although Ray's career accomplishments are lacking, he somehow made it to stardom, based on good likes, a magnetic smile, and a 7-up commercial which endeared the public to him and Ray Jr. I love little Ray!
All that's missing is a couple good wins over Nunn & Norris
Got it! So it's not that Leonard has wins over 4 of the greatest in history, it's that he didn't beat Norris and Nunn. This along with your comment about Hagler beating Watts, Seals, and Monroe being greater than Leonard's wins over Benitez, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler (HIMSELF!) earns you the dunce cap of YouTube!
I dont know how to tell you this but Monroe & watts both beat Hagler. thought you knew all this since you (said) you followed his career since 75 (ha ha yeah right)
Hagler was greater than Leonard because Leonard lost to Norris and because Leonard never faced Nunn and these two factors ALONE hold much more weight than Leonard's wins (including a win over Hagler).
NOW Hagler's greater because of the guys Marvin has losses to? The comedy never ends. Are you sure this is the direction you want to go in?
Any time you want to end this nightmare you've made for yourself, just post the link to an all time list that ranks Hagler higher than Leonard!
Leonard's win over Hagler careis no weight becuz 1) Hagler was robbed and 2) srl didnt have the courage to call him out for 5 years-way too late
Sugar lacks courage. He also lacked the courage to defend his WBC title. He lacks the courage to face Nunn. Ray would much rather face Duran or Lalonde than face Nunn
Don't need you to spell anything for me. It looks like it would take too much effort on your part to spell anything anyway. I would like that list though.
Again, Hagler can't move up and face Spinks, Braxton, Gregory, Saad Muhammed, etc. (perhaps losing to all by Gregory), but he gets credit from clowns like you for his greatest fights which were made of smaller guys moving up to face him!
nightmare? Youre the one that just said you been following Hagler's career since the mid 70s even tho I already knew you knew jack. No disgrace but dont start acting like youre someone youre not.
If that were me I'd just say sorry I dont know enough about the man to criticize his opposition...and then leave it at that
But you went on with the charade and even going so far as to mock Watts & Monroe in comparison w Hagler not even realizing both gained decisions.
Hell, you never did tell me what made Briscoe so great. Losing three title tries makes you great? How does that make him better if he's losing in attempts at the title. Because to me ALL challengers that come up short belong in the same group
So what makes Briscoe better than Hagler's title challengers? Why dont you point ou to me all the differences?
I never said he was "great"; he was just better than the three that you listed. I'm sure that I don't have to point this out to you, but Briscoe's three losing world title attempts were 3 more attempts than the three that you listed COMBINED. How many title shots did Watts, Monroe, and Seals get? But by your logic, that's what makes them great. You're pathetic!
It's interesting that you rate Monroe, Watts, and Seals higher than Benitez, Duran, and Hearns as far as greatness because Seals fought Hags to a draw when Hags was 20 and Watts and Monroe both beat Hags when Hags was 21 (all YEARS away from Hag's prime years). A few years later, with some experience, Hags stopped all three of them fairly easily. Yet these three are somehow greater than the three 1st ballot HOFers that Leonard beat. This isn't trivia, so I'm sure you have a valid explanation.
Hey stupid, Seales was the same age. Dork! beating a young Hagler is the supreme compliment.
All you do is crow HOF this & HOF that but Benitez got his ass beat & owned by Hamsho. Hearns couldnt get past his 1st defense! Duran lost to hagler's half brother Simms and Leonard was dispatched by Norris ..with the great ease!
Seales held Hagler to a draw. Monroe beat him. Watts beat him.
Now, if you want to continue debating me, prove your worth by answering my previous question
Yes, Benitez (who started out at 140 and won titles in 3 weight classes) lost to a 160er in his 4th weight class.
Duran (who won his 1st title at 135 and won titles in 4 weight classes and is generally regarded as top 10 #4# all time) lost to someone in his 5th weight class. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the Paz fight!
Leonard lost to someone when he was 35 or 36 (4 years older than Hagler was when he gave up).
you were the one pursuing this, dropping comments on several videos over the last 3 days. I finally reconsidered to give you a chance and prove yourself which you still havent
Seales, Watts, Antuofuermo, Monroe, all have something to brag about. What does Briscoe have to brag about?
Benny wasnt a bad fighter but why is he so much better than Seales, Minter, Sibson, Davison, Roldan, Fletcher, Hamsho? YOu say you were following hagler's career so you should know
Who cares if they were the same age?! Was that the same Hagler that stopped Hearns and almost lost to Duran?
Pryor beat Hearns when they were amateurs. Hearns was only 17 when they fought. Does that mean that Pryor lasts more than 3 rounds with a prime Hearns you clown?
And you might knock the HOF because they don't recognize Seals, Watts, and Monroe as 3 of the greatest to ever lace them up, but don't you find it odd that you are the only one who feels that those 3 deserve more?
You always seem to know the greats for their losses in higher weight classes. What weight class was Hagler in when Leonard beat his ass?
And this is like the 5th or 6th time I'm asking, but please show me an all-time #4# list that ranks Hagler above Leonard and Duran. ANY list will do! If you can't produce one, I think it's obvious that you don't know what the F**K you're talking about!
ive asked you 5 times why Briscoe is better than Hagler's title challengers and you still havnet told me
I dont care about your stupid p4p lists made up of Leonard butt kissing fags that began following his career out of the amateurs. he's probably had them all down his house giving them weed and coke!
I dont see how two years with one loss between 1979 & 1981 put you in the HOF. Let him beat Nunn & Norris if he's so great. It shouldnt be too difficult when you're a 3-1 fave over Norris
@Piglatinsuperstar again you are talking out your arse piggyboy ! why on here do you always lose the debates ? i'll tell you why because you know fuck all about boxing and you just have a grudge against the sugar man !!
@sukhvinderdhesi Piglatin is an idiot, and just hates Leonard. He doesn't know boxing, and just wants to blow Norris, who had a serious glass jaw, even when young.
@sukhvinderdhesi Sugar Ray one of the greatest. Norris had his time but had a weak chin and what the hell what was wrong with him in like losing to this bum by hitting him low like three different fights? Norris was good but not great. Sugar man was great.
@Piglatinsuperstar hagler fought these guys( Monroe and Watts) in Philadelphia. I'm from germantown in Philly and let me tell you, yu come to Philly at that time to get a decision? forget about it. Hagler won those fights and Watts and Monroe even admitted that? the draw with seales? Again, Hagler went to seattle, where was SRS from? Seattle. You see the picture I'm painting? You make good points but to be truthful, hagler really should have been undefeated to me.
I remember this fight well, it was part of a doubleheader with Tommy Hearns fighting first. Ayub was an ok technical fighter but always lacked real punching power. The Jr. Middleweights were a soft division back then. Maurice Hope was the other champion at the time and Wifred Benitez ko'd him with one punch.
Kalule was already going downhill when he fought Marijan Benes a year before the Leonard fight. Plus he was dead at the weight - Mogens Palle forced him to fight at 154, not 160. Leonard beat a tired old fighter. McCallum, Moore et al beat a corpse. Leonard would have had big problems with a prime Kalule at his natural weight.
@xchindit I doubt that. Kalule always went the distance even when young and simply could not punch. SRL would have beated him no matter what stage of his career. He was light hitting good boxer and gave a good performance but Ray would always beat him due to style match up.
Sugar Ray Leonard was the best for his time although as a welterweight he was at his peak and best but in the comback years he showed them all who the boss was including Mr Marvin hagler who was not so marvelous in 1987 they all lost to Sugar Ray Leonard Duran ,Hearns Hagler, Lalonde,Benitez etc etc
then Leonard lost to young upstart-my man Terry Norris. 2 bad he couldnt claim TOTAL victory
It would have been nice as long as he was out in the open fighting again, to take on new faces like Nunn instead of Lalonde (HAHA) but I guess Ray didnt feel it was safe for him
Leonard beat Hagler, Hearns, Duran, and Benitez. Who cares who he lost to or didn't fight at the end of his career? By the time he faced Norris, Leonard was a shell of who he was just 3 years earlier.
You're a pathetic joke! "Oh, he didn't fight Nunn, he lost to Norris, he lost to Camacho, he didn't fight Pryor, he fought a bunch of no names, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!" Show me a credible all time list that ranks Hagler ahead of Leonard!!
Leonard always did things that upset other people. Namely, he fought the best and won. To win his first belt, he stopped the undefeated Benitez. He went toe to toe with Duran and was almost as good at it after 27 pro fights as Duran was after 70. The next fight he made Duran quit with his tail between his legs. After that he moved up one weight class to stop the best guy at that weight, Ayub Kalule, who was undefeated at 36-0. Then he moved back down to welter and stopped the undefeated Hearns.
ill tell you what upsets people is that we have to settle for Ray facing another sub par opponent. no one cares if he fights Duran and Hearns 5 years too late. No one cares watching leonarda hagler 6 years late. we want top notch opposition if he's going to get paid millions becuz the level of risk goes along with the amount of payday he gets. What risk is there in facing a Donny lalonde?
fans want to see Leonard-Nunn, not Leonard-Lalonde!
We want to see Leonard-McCallum or Jackson instead of Duran & Hearns at the end of the decade destroyed several times over. Nobody gives a shit! No one cares about watching Hagler when he's about to retire. Only early 80s Hagler matters becuz he is the dominant fighter of the decade and the best.
I dont know what Ray was afraid of. The worst that could happen is he gets knocked out. So what? We all know he cant take a shot anyways
if that had been Norris in front of him instead of Kalule he wouldnt have had the time for taunting; he would have been too busy protecting his chin, fighting for his life.
when he tried it with Terry, he wound up paying for it until he realized it was helping to unnerve Terry any
Leonard never faced anyone with the speed of kalule before. he always waited for opponents to depreciate before he would get in the ring with them
sorry if I offended anyone just thought I'd bring it up
If Kalule had more power, it might've been Leonard who would be stopped in the 9th. But he didn't. Kalule was no puncher and Leonard, altho no puncher himself, had more power.
Kalule beat Sumbu Kalambay as far as I know. But he also got knocked down twice in that fight and knocked Kalambay down in the last round. It was a split decision.
But the flipside of the obvious is that Kalule was knocked down, he was incoherent and Leonard is an excellent finisher...just a matter of time before he was knocked out anyway...who the fuck cares if it's in the astrodome or the zebrahut!
WTF are you blindly hatin' assholes talking about? Is there another fight against Kalule somewhere? Leonard dominated the early rounds, Kalule gave him good shots back and elusive head movement, so Leonard decided to stand mostly flatfooted and simply trade toe-to-toe with Kalule, taking his best and giving it right back...and Kalule got knocked out. I can see as a fan why you would think it was stopped too soon..fans say that cuz they won't concede till their man is totally crushed...same here.
He was a media darling. For good reason. He was a superb boxer.
As for getting "fucked over", Camacho's victory came when Leonard was 40!! What does that prove exactly? Muhammed Ali was beaten by Trevor Berbick when he was around 40. Want to tell us that this proves Ali wasn't an all time great?
Likewise, the Norris victory came when Leonard was about 35. It took another all time great, Duran, to beat him in his prime.
Leonard's battles with Hagler, Hearns et al will go down in history!
Berbick had his best years ahead of him while Hector already had his best years in the 80s like Ray so it evens out. That's a big difference.
as for the Norris fight, Ray had all the experience, had himself 5 titles to boast of and just came off a dominating performance, and hadnt lost in 11 years. I dont see how any of that adds up to a washed up fighter. When expert observers are telling you how great you looked, then it's hard to take what you're telling me seriously.
Finally a Leonard fan admits that he WAS in his prime when Duran beat him. Thank you for that. Roberto was truly great, only Hearns with his monster right and Hagler with his greatness could beat him. Leonard really only beat him once, when Duran was already past his prime.
I've never really counted the "no mas" fight as a Leonard victory. Duran just had a mental meltdown. Duran was a truly great fighter. However, so were Leonard and Hearns and Hagler.
Trying to separate them is a futile exercise. Who beat who had a lot to do with differing styles and who had the better fight plan.
But to say that Leonard was just a media darling is pure drivel.
yeah but Hector was 35 himself so that takes the life out of your argument
Ray may have been 34 when he met Norris but wasnt he winning? 11 years in fact. Those 5 championships must have meant something. Or were they merely for show? Maybe something to embellish his image? a little fakery and deception in play perhaps?
Well, we got our answer on Feb. 9 1991. Ray had the experience, Terry had the guns and it didnt take long to expose the fraud and fragility of the overrated saccharin man.
yes piggyboy you are a moron all the people here think that !!!! you talk out your arse ! 6 fights in 9 years and just about to turn 35 in may 91 sooner or later father time would catch up !!! ! call yourself an expert in the sweet science
stop trying to defend that worthless bum you know it wont work. everyone knows what a fraud he was. all hes good for was leading the senior's tour. everyone from Armando Muniz to Hagler was over the hill. even a 29 year old Duran gave him all he could handle. And Terry Norris? FORGET IT!! When you duck Hagler then replace Nunn, Jackson, McCallum with Lalonde, hearns, Duran (two relics) then get beheaded by Norris all points to one thing-overrated, protected media creation.
Oh really? So then Hearns and Hagler are cowards for not fighting Nunn and Norris? Hearns fought warriors like Iran Barkley, and Virgil Hill, but when Leonard fights Hearns, He is over the hill? Hagler was not in his prime but he was far from being over the hill. Wow, you think his strategy was wait 5 years, thennnnnnnn fight Hagler and Hearns? You know nothing about taking time off of training and fighting. YOu are talking out of your whooped ass!
trying to excuse srl for cowardice again. hagler defended his title. ray leonard was another story; he couldnt becuz he was afraid. that's why you see no defenses @ 160. None, zero-like him, a zero!
as for hearns, he was the worst case of damaged goods i ever seen. this would be a new low excpet we're talking about ray leonard, the man who won two titles from Don Lalonde. Now that is funny!
It's my great regret that Hearns never fought Nunn. The two were so much alike in physique and fighting style that I believe it would be a very exciting and even match. Tommy would win most likely, because he had a stronger punch.
That would have been a great fight. The exciting thing about boxing, is that a puncher always has a shot at winning, even if the other fighter has greater skill, it is not always so predictable. However, if I would have had money on Hearns vs Nunn, I would have to put the money on Hearns. One of the best of all time and a super human being.
really? It looked to me like Mike saw the opening, he stepped in with it and caught him flush. Sumbu could take 15 rounds of Barkley but he couldnt handle 1 round of Mike. That's how hard mike can hit!
And not only can he hit, he can punch as well. Call him a puncher and a poet
Mike has also stopped Frank Tate to win the tile (never lost) and Curtis Parker with a single uppercut.
if your man were really as good as you say he wouldve stopped Terry like he was supposed to. even your excuse about the layoff is bogus becuz according to you, he beat Hagler WITH the layoff and before his other fights. So your argument just fell apart that fast. numbskull!
I can see why you dont like to debate me. you suck! and your argument still dont work becuz Ray got the experience, the titles, the 11 year win streak. Who said he was old? They didnt say that before the fight- Sore loser
He was the WBA light middleweight champion before he met Leonard you fool! And he's Ugandan, like John Mugabi. That country produced several fine fighters.
what guy below? I dont see nothing. All I see is Leonard against a guy with no speed and no punch and still taking him nine. I dont possibly see how Ray would stand a chance against a fighter like Norris. Ray never faced anyone with the kind of speed Norris had
but Berbick was a young man while Hector was well over 30 and shouldve retired after the Chavez fight, way past it since the end of the 80s
so I dont see the comparison youre making etween Ali & Leonard
Leonard IS NOT ALI! As for Norris, he just had Sugar's number. Leonard had never faced anyone with Norris' speed & couldnt hit a moving target, especially one who could hit back and get Leonard's respect
he was a media darling that couldnt take Hagler until he softened up and came all the way down to Leonard's level. Too bad Hector fucked him over and that Hector was over the hill and moving up from three divisions below Leonard's. Pryor wouldve knocked that media mofo out! that's why Leonard backed down from his challenge
Piglatin - What i see is SRL taking Kalule lightly. You see Ray isnt even concerned much with his defense as he is just walking right through Kalules punches. Ray would be more prepared for a guy like Terry Norris. Also keep in mind this is at 154. You see SRL looks a little chubby in the mid section. SRL is a natural 147. Thats when he was at his fastest.
Had Norris fought prime SRL it has to be at 147. Again Norris couldnt even stop 35 year old SRL
terry dont have to stop him. outpointing him is good enough. i dont see no way ray can do nothing to terry but you saying no man can compete with ray in 1981 so i look at srl from 1981 and dont see nothing terry got to worry about. Terry will beat both ray leonard AND kalule. he beat larry bonds but he is nothing. and tommy just begginig his career and is a skinny kid who need a lot of teaching. the tommy hearns who marvin hagler fight is a lot lot better! faster, stronger, and invincible
You really dont have a fucking clue of what u r talking about...u have a big lack og knowledge in boxing since u dont know who kalule is.. kalule was a fighter and a true player. Ray was on crack at that poin. So dont u dare Critizising kalule, when u dont know a shit about boxing... kalule was so much better in that game than Ray, the only resson why he did'nt won was because it was held in the US and they cheated... it's so typical american...!!!
where is ray leonard vs. prime hagler, Micheal nunn, rematch with Hearns (1984 version) leonard vs Pryor, Leonard vs. Curry, Leonard vs, Honeyghan, leonard vs. McCallum, leonard vs. Mugabi
so, so many matchups that didnt happen becuz of leonard's cowardice all we get is leonard lalonde and leonard camacho. what a waste of talent
There is no evidence that 1976 Olympics thru 1982 as a professional that SRL could not handle speed figters. Why? Because he was the speed fighter.
Piglatin - You mentioned Hearns in another post but forgot to mention Hearns was 6-1 with a long reach and big right hand.
Terry Norris is 5-10 with short arms.
Hearns speed is not what gave Ray problems. It was the 6-1 height, reach and fear of Tommy's 1 punch KO power. SRL could have knocked him out 6th round had he been more aggressive.
If you recall, Norris had no difficulty with speedy fighters because of his even greater speed. This was also the case with young Hector Camacho who always dealt harshly with similar speedsters Coverson, Davis in blowouts.
there is no evidence that he could handle speed. Who has Ray ever fought that had speed? Only Hearns and Tommy beat him in the game of boxing easy. Ray didnt really have the experience that Hagler had. Who had Ray ever fought that had the speed of Norris? There's really no one. There's no Terry Norris, no Micheal Nunn who he ducked, no Meldrick Taylor, and no Hector Camacho. Ray Leonard never fought a man who had speed. It wasn't Tommy's reach and height that gave Ray problems it was his speed.
How would 35 year old Terry Norris do against 1980 23 year old Ray Leonard. You get the point. Norris was 23 years old in his prime and Ray was 35 years old coming off multiple layoffs since 1982.
Like i said, lets switch up things. 35 year old Terry Norris vs 23 year old Ray Leonard. It woud be worse results for Norris then wha he did a 23 to 35 year old SRL. Ray would have put him in a coma.
Thank you for your concern. Prime for prime, Norris was faster and tougher than leonard. In 1980, Leonard had already lost to Duran who was not as fast as Norris. Duran was really nothing more than a lightweight but still stepped up two weight classes to beat Leonard. While Norris on the other hand was a natural 154 pounder, bigger, faster than Duran, much better than Kalule. Not surprisingly, Terry had no problem with Leonard despite a decided disadvantage in experience to Leonard.
The only way that would happen is if Terry came into the fight a sick man. There would have to be something drastically wrong with him. If you recall, Terry excelled at putting speedy fighters under and very quickly, something that Leonard was never able to claim due to his limited experience.
Well said. Norris was used up by the time he was 30. I personally saw him train in San Diego for a long time and his gym wars were legionary. Sugar Ray had a much, much better chin. Duran was an incredible fighter that went from 135lbs. all the way to 165 and in his 40's. Sugar Ray is an all time great as well as Duran. Terry Norris was a bright star that diminished too soon.
Leonard couldn't beat Terry on his best day! The fight wasn't even close. Only the first two rounds were close until Terry got serious and loosened up. After that, he didn't work up a sweat. Leonard was working as hard as he could and was still no contest. Like I said, Ray can't handle a good speedy boxer I saw it in the 1st hearns fight and with the Norris performance I became even more adamant in my opinion of him. Leonard's jab couldn't find Norris' head with a map and a compass!
who the fuck is terry norris is he your boyfriend or something! you talk no sense about boxing at all ! terry norris faded very fast and will never be remembered the way leonard is ! leonard in 82 would have destroyed norris! pig you know shit about boxing
Thank you for your concern. Who is Terry Norris you ask? Terry Norris is the man who destroyed Sugar Ray leonard and retired him. What counts is what actually happened in the ring, not what we would have LIKED TO SEE HAPPEN.
Come on gentlemen lets not kill each other Leonard was the most complete boxer of the 80's he could box had fast hands a good chin a pop in his punch and a very good boxing brain.Norris matched Leonard in most departments but his chin would have let him down with a young Sugar ray and he was no where nears as smart as ray was.
This wasn't a real fight it was cheat. The judge asked him to stop on spanish and kalule said "yes yes go i wanna go on" and then the judge stop the fight and there was only 5 seconds left...
AsiaFanNR1 4 months ago
@AsiaFanNR1 you are correct, Kalule was a danish fighter and did not understand the spanish...I still to this day cant figure out why they would speak spanish to him..he himself in a danish interview said that it wasnt fair and that he was ready to continue the fight, he was not out AT ALL, as he said. - a steal i think, as Kalule was a fantastic fighter
wendel88 4 months ago
Ray Leonard was the best fighter pound for pound of his era. He beat them all. He beat Hearns, Hagler, Duran, and anyone else they put in front of him. No one else, among those fighters can say that. And I watched the Leonard Hagler fight again today, trying to view it in a way that I could say Hagler won. Just couldn't see it. Leonard beat the guy fair and square.
rcaldw 5 months ago
@rcaldw
Hagler was the best of his era and proved it winning 4 consecutive p4p awards compared with Leonard's ONE.
Proving one's greatness does not consist of waiting 5 yrs to catch a fighter like Hagler on the way out. The fight proved nothing excpet that Leonard needed help. Put him up against a little speed (spelled Terry Norris) and he falls apart like a cheap deck of cards
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar I agree that Hagler was great. I just believe that Ray was better. And in terms of the Norris fight, Ray was 35 at the time. Not exactly his prime. I'm sure you wouldn't argue that Ray wasn't among the fastest hands in the history of boxing when he was young? If Ray lacked anything it wasn't speed and elusiveness.
rcaldw 4 months ago
@rcaldw
Hagler was better. he faced the better oppostion and more of it. he snuffed prime Hearns towards the end of his career whereas it took Ray 14 when Tommy was just developing
and while ray may have been 34, Norris was a 3-1 underdog and aced him. You never saw Hagler lose the way Leonard did. and you never saw Hagler got knocked out like ray did. In fact, hagler's never even been to the floor in over 65 fights! that's greatness! Leoanrd was always going to the floor
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar Can't agree with you. Different fighters, different styles, but Ray was better, and their one head to head match proved it.
rcaldw 4 months ago
@rcaldw
their h2h match proved nothing except that Hagler was gone. It saddened me to watch a once great fighter trading jabs with someone he wouldve crushed iwithn 10 seconds during his prime
Even in the Hearns fight, Hagler was only 75% of his old form, still wiped out Hearns in 3 to Leonard's 14. Hagler just knew how to turn on the juice sooner and "get to it"
Leonard didnt have nearly the same versatility or effectiveness as Hagler. The Norris fight showed how much he has to learn
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
and neither does this fight impress anyone except for maybe Leonard fans. Imagine if the opponent had been Norris, then Leonard would have experienced loss.
Looking at him in this video, how can anyone seriously believe he'd stand a chance with Norris or prime Hagler? not exactly a ball of fire
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
Oh, one other thing, spam boy.
Didn't Leonard have a GREAT chin!!! Hagler, Hearns, Duran, Kalule, et al, all threw the kitchen sink at him. Did you ever see him on the canvas?? They hit him with their best shots. Did he ever go down??
Go on, say it. You won't choke. Leonard had a GREAT chin!!!
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
hunk4hire: Kevin the midget Howard, Don Nobody Lalonde, T. Norris bouncing Ray off da canvas, Hector Camacho, Marcos Geraldo rd 3, Thomas, i cant fight no more hearns rematch
did u ever see him on the canvas? I did,, lots of times. now I call him spaghetti legs Leonard, and it stuck
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
HAHA, check it out! homeboy asking me "did u eever see leonard on the canvas?" like he got me against the wall
yeah, seven times!
what a dumbfuck!
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
Yeah he was knocked down. But never out. Even Duran can't say that.
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
NOW u admit he WAS down! why didnt u just admit it in the first place?
You see? this iz why I dont trust SRL fans, cuz they into the HYPE, not the REALITY
and yes, Leonard WAS knocked out,, by washed up Hector Camacho
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
He was NOT knocked out. The official decision was a TKO. The ref stopped the fight. Nobody ever knocked Ray Leonard cold like Hearns knocked out Duran. He had a great chin.
As far a "hype" goes, anyone who refers to great fighters like Tommy Hearns as Tommy "I don't wanna fight no more" Hearns, forfeits any chance of being taken seriously. This is middle school trash talk which kids use when they're arguing about who's the best boxer.
Run along.
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
He was stopped just once in his entire career; by Camacho at 40 years of age and after half a decade out of the ring. Two of his three losses came when he was 35 or older. The other was in the first fight to Duran. In his prime, he was unbeatable.
The number of boxers who never lost a single fight, even those considered all time greats, is vanishingly small. Even the indisputably great Julio Cesar Chavez had the tar knocked out of him-TWICE- by Oscar de la Hoya.
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
if theres one thing I dont like about SRL fans is that they can never admit when someone is better than their fighter.
you can put Camacho in the same over the hill catagory. Didnt u see his losses to Chavez, Hauger, Trinidad many yrs before? that part you WONT talk about
You must think I'm stupid thinking I'm going to just look at YOUR side of the story. Hector was just better PERIOD. Tougher, better chin, better skills, more experienced. and YES, he DID knock him out!
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
Sorry. The official result of the fight was a TKO. Referee stopped contest.
When the referee counts to 10 and a fighter can't get up in time to beat the count that goes into the books as a KO.
Leonard was NEVER KOed.
Glad I could help.
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
how is that helping? all you're doing is sugarcoating the loss. HC beat him senseless. Knocked that fragile ass onto the canvas and then got up on shaky legs. Hector then tore into him again in the manner Bruce lee tore into Chuck Norris head-body-head-body until Ray groaning from his mortal wounds, gave up the ghost.
Hagler was never stopped and lasted twice as long and NEVER dropped becuz he was twice as tough and twice as durable as leonard, so he could do more w his career
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
We want to be accurate here, right? You said Camacho KOed him. That's incorrect. Leonard was never counted out.
And I'm not arguing that Hagler wasn't tough. Nice straw man.
Hagler was a great boxer. So was Leonard.
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
More humor from the king of comedy. You're running up and down the thread touting Camacho's victory over Leonard (at age 40, after over 5 years out of boxing) and Norris' victory over Leonard (at age 35), yet when anyone mentions Leonard's defeat of Hagler...........oh no that doesn't count. Hagler was "on the way out".
If Leonard's defeat of Hagler counts for nothing, then neither do the victories of Norris and Camacho.
FYI, Hagler was 34 years old when Leonard beat him.
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
So leonard DIDNt wait 5 yrs for Hagler to decline? He didnt fight twice in 1989, 1988, 1987 and even 1997 but for some reason couldnt face hagler in 1982?
sorry but youre simply out of excuses which are really laughable when u consider the facts
as For Leonard & Camacho, it seems you dont want to take into consideration the poor condition Hector was in, the torurous beating he took from Chavez FIVE WHOLE YRS before. Hector in his prime wouldve had a filed day w JCC, SRL, DLH
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
It's real simple. See if you can grasp this.
If Hagler was "on the way out"( your words) at 34 (when Leonard beat him), then Leonard was also "on the way out at 35 and 40 (when Norris and Camacho beat him).
Do you get it yet?
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
u comparing Leonard's career with Hagler's? that's a laugh! Hagler had 66 fights compared w Leonard's 30+. Now ay Leonard couldve gone as long as marvin did. In fact, he had to keep taking layoffs in between becuz he couldnt handle it. and even when he did fight, it was always against a carefully preslected opponent meeting stringent requirements. Lalonde instead of Nunn. and when he finally DID get brave to face a live opponent (Norris) over someone like Duran, he got demolished
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
OK, so Hagler was washed up at 34 (when Leonard beat him) but Leonard was not washed up at 35 (when Norris beat him), nor at 40 (when Camacho beat him).
Is that the Kool Aid you'd like us to drink?
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
Hagleer and Leonard are two different fighters w different careers obviously just as Monzon at 35 was going strong at 35 when he retired.or Hopkins reached his peak at 36.
as you can see from RL's previous fight (uno mas) he had his legs (and then some) his speed, reflexes, combinations. The reason he lost to Norris is he never had the experience of facing anyone with above average speed which makes it much more difficult. Camacho in the same age group as Ray when he KO'd him
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
Hagler looked pretty good 12 months previously at 33 when he KOed the intimidating John Mugabi, didn't he? So 12 months later he was washed up?
And Camacho was in "the same age group as Ray"?? Well they were both adults, over 21, I guess. Camacho was actually 6 years younger than Leonard. He was 34 and Leonard was 40. Big difference.
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
how does having to hide behind shades for the first time in his life ane d sporting goose egg size lumps on his head make Hagler look good? Hagler was reputed to have declined staring in early 1984. that is FACT! Still, Hagler at 85% was better than ANYONE at 160 and he proved it against Hamsho first, then Hearns. Further decline posted the Mugabi match from Nov. 1985 to Mar. 86. That too is fact. Hagler sidelined w broken nose, and back problems. Sound like a guy in his prime?
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
just so much IGNORANCE out there coming from people that like to pass themselves off as knowledgable
The same people who cant acknowledge Camacho as being at the end of his rope becuz the thought of him massacring their idol leaves a bad taste in theeir mouths. "Ray in his prime wouldve stopped Camacho"
They know he wouldnt and wouldve dropped a one sided decision to the smaller but faster, fiercer, more experienced Camacho
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
"...that is a FACT!" ROFL!
OK, so let's see if I've got your "facts" straight. I'm having a little trouble following you here. Leonard was a bum and the only reason he beat Hagler was because Hagler was over the hill, right? So if Hagler was over the hill and a bum like Leonard still managed to beat him, what does that make John "the Beast" Mugabi, whom the over the hill Hagler KOed 12 months previous? He must have been a super bum, right?
Have I got that right?
hunk4hire 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
dude just accept it & stop trying to mince words. Hector KNOCKED HIM OUT!
you're trying to escape it by getting technical. "well, technically, it wasn't a knockout so Leonard was never knocked out"
as for Mugabi, he wasnt much. it's just that he caught Hagler at the end of his career. Hagler maybe half what he was during his prime, much slower, ineffective, very slow reflexes, and practically toothless. I'm surprised so many question this from a fighter in his last fight
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar Record books say TKO not KO. You lost again son.
InternationalBoy 4 months ago
@InternationalBoy
ME lose? I made MONEY off people like you at this fight! Not only did I call the right man but the right ROUND! Imagine the looks on them people when they had to pay up! Paying to the ultimate leonard hater
HAHA, that's what he gets for being a media creation and picking his own fights!
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar too bad you lost mad money on the Hagler fight. which is why your hatred has spawned for over 30 years :(
InternationalBoy 4 months ago
@InternationalBoy
who says I lost money on the Hagler fight? I laid off it becuz too many question marks surrounding Hagler
but I made TONS off Norris N Camacho kicking that ass
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar so why you mad then for over 30 years? shits mad sad son. You keep losing taking them suppossid W's and breaking em in half and creating double L's. LOL@you
InternationalBoy 4 months ago
@InternationalBoy
who said I'm mad? i just said he couldnt handle younger fighters and that Hagler was robbed. If I say leonard didnt deserve the middleweight title then you must admit I was right and that there is no debate. pleease, give it a rest
Piglatinsuperstar 3 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar on every Ray Leonard video posting a million comments about the same tired subject=Hella Mad. I wouldnt even give my worst enemies the time you give Ray.
InternationalBoy 3 months ago
@InternationalBoy
what do u expect? peeple like u force me to defend my viewz
Piglatinsuperstar 3 months ago
Sugar Ray Leonard was never afraid to mixed it up with other fighters. De La hOya, Roy Jones, Myaweather, Pernell Withaker were all about protecting their pretty faces. And Mosley and Pac use steroids!!!
smr144 10 months ago
Never knew Ray was such an arrogant prick..
zmforged 1 year ago
Boxing is so corrupt. This is just like Seoul 1988. The referee cheated him. He said to the referee, he was fit for fight, and then the referee stops the match!?
Hanzi10 1 year ago
Leonard was lucky Kalule wasn't a big puncher.
Jorsalfar 1 year ago
leonard doesn't really jab,he slugs with the left,not many straight punches,for a so called classic boxer..
onlyjoetee 1 year ago
Amazingly SRL moves up to junior middleweight to fight a champion in his last fight before fighting Hearns. I know Kalule was not a big puncher but still a tough fight when the Hearns fight was already set.
hearns on the same night fought a much easier opponent..
shire2005 1 year ago
Ayub Kalule was the former WBA middle weight champion of the world and he also had a great sponsership Akai . Jason Louis-Fernand.
TheMakeover2010 1 year ago
Ayub Kalule couldn't dent butter with His weak punching power.
BigMDS67 1 year ago
Leonard is fighting flat footed. As he almost always did. Duran outboxed Leonard.
Give him some fucking credit
rd062080 1 year ago
I really miss Ayub Kalule! As a boy I saw a fight with Kalule in my hometown in Denmark, he was my biggest idol for many years.
Though, he should have earned much more respect in the States. He is still regarded as the best boxer under a Danish promotor (yes, and that includes Kessler) and best African boxer of all time.
stenovitz 2 years ago
@stenovitz Not best boxer from Africa, maybe Uganda or Denmark. I think you forgot Azumah nelson, Ike Ibeabuchi, Dick Tiger, John Mugabi, and more. All of these guys were way better than Kalule who couldn't dent a paper cup with two pair of brass knuckles on. kessler is a good fighter, but limited.
imotep09 1 year ago
@imotep09 MUGABI WAY BETTER THAN KALULE??!!WHAT ARE YOU DRINKING?!MUGABI WAS NOTHING BUT A CRUDE PUNCHER!
Jorsalfar 1 year ago
@Jorsalfar Mugabi could punch. Hagler had the best chin ever and stated that in his career, only Mugabi really hurt him. Hearns cut him but didn't hurt him. Mugabi hit Hagler and his eyes rolled back in his head, but Hagler never would go down. The fluke knock down by Juan Roldan was later recinded in court!. Kalule good boxer, but best from Africa? What are you drinking dude???
imotep09 1 year ago
@imotep09 I didnt say he was the best African boxer, ninny!
Jorsalfar 1 year ago
Terry Norris wouldve beat them both
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Hagler went out in a much more humane way - a controversial split decision while Leonard lost back to back - both of them humiliating. I almost forgot, he was knocked out. Honestly, I dont know how his fans sleep at night
Although Ray's career accomplishments are lacking, he somehow made it to stardom, based on good likes, a magnetic smile, and a 7-up commercial which endeared the public to him and Ray Jr. I love little Ray!
All that's missing is a couple good wins over Nunn & Norris
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Got it! So it's not that Leonard has wins over 4 of the greatest in history, it's that he didn't beat Norris and Nunn. This along with your comment about Hagler beating Watts, Seals, and Monroe being greater than Leonard's wins over Benitez, Duran, Hearns, and Hagler (HIMSELF!) earns you the dunce cap of YouTube!
I'm still waiting for the link to that list btw
thdiller 2 years ago
I dont know how to tell you this but Monroe & watts both beat Hagler. thought you knew all this since you (said) you followed his career since 75 (ha ha yeah right)
So long dummy!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
So to recap:
Hagler was greater than Leonard because Leonard lost to Norris and because Leonard never faced Nunn and these two factors ALONE hold much more weight than Leonard's wins (including a win over Hagler).
NOW Hagler's greater because of the guys Marvin has losses to? The comedy never ends. Are you sure this is the direction you want to go in?
Any time you want to end this nightmare you've made for yourself, just post the link to an all time list that ranks Hagler higher than Leonard!
thdiller 2 years ago
Leonard's win over Hagler careis no weight becuz 1) Hagler was robbed and 2) srl didnt have the courage to call him out for 5 years-way too late
Sugar lacks courage. He also lacked the courage to defend his WBC title. He lacks the courage to face Nunn. Ray would much rather face Duran or Lalonde than face Nunn
Do I have to spell it out for you more, stupid?
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Don't need you to spell anything for me. It looks like it would take too much effort on your part to spell anything anyway. I would like that list though.
Again, Hagler can't move up and face Spinks, Braxton, Gregory, Saad Muhammed, etc. (perhaps losing to all by Gregory), but he gets credit from clowns like you for his greatest fights which were made of smaller guys moving up to face him!
thdiller 2 years ago
nightmare? Youre the one that just said you been following Hagler's career since the mid 70s even tho I already knew you knew jack. No disgrace but dont start acting like youre someone youre not.
If that were me I'd just say sorry I dont know enough about the man to criticize his opposition...and then leave it at that
But you went on with the charade and even going so far as to mock Watts & Monroe in comparison w Hagler not even realizing both gained decisions.
How sad, so sad
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Hell, you never did tell me what made Briscoe so great. Losing three title tries makes you great? How does that make him better if he's losing in attempts at the title. Because to me ALL challengers that come up short belong in the same group
So what makes Briscoe better than Hagler's title challengers? Why dont you point ou to me all the differences?
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
I never said he was "great"; he was just better than the three that you listed. I'm sure that I don't have to point this out to you, but Briscoe's three losing world title attempts were 3 more attempts than the three that you listed COMBINED. How many title shots did Watts, Monroe, and Seals get? But by your logic, that's what makes them great. You're pathetic!
thdiller 2 years ago
WHY is he better? Losing three times just makes you a three time loser. In effect, you are telling me he is not as bad becuz he gets more title shots.
You telling me he is better but you never tell me WHY he is better
BTW, Monroe & Watts beat Hagler. Did Briscoe? Seales held him to a draw
And since you know so much about hagler and opponents, tell me more about Hag;er's challengers-all of them
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
It's interesting that you rate Monroe, Watts, and Seals higher than Benitez, Duran, and Hearns as far as greatness because Seals fought Hags to a draw when Hags was 20 and Watts and Monroe both beat Hags when Hags was 21 (all YEARS away from Hag's prime years). A few years later, with some experience, Hags stopped all three of them fairly easily. Yet these three are somehow greater than the three 1st ballot HOFers that Leonard beat. This isn't trivia, so I'm sure you have a valid explanation.
thdiller 2 years ago
Hey stupid, Seales was the same age. Dork! beating a young Hagler is the supreme compliment.
All you do is crow HOF this & HOF that but Benitez got his ass beat & owned by Hamsho. Hearns couldnt get past his 1st defense! Duran lost to hagler's half brother Simms and Leonard was dispatched by Norris ..with the great ease!
Seales held Hagler to a draw. Monroe beat him. Watts beat him.
Now, if you want to continue debating me, prove your worth by answering my previous question
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
This is really beginning to bore me.
Yes, Benitez (who started out at 140 and won titles in 3 weight classes) lost to a 160er in his 4th weight class.
Duran (who won his 1st title at 135 and won titles in 4 weight classes and is generally regarded as top 10 #4# all time) lost to someone in his 5th weight class. I'm surprised you didn't bring up the Paz fight!
Leonard lost to someone when he was 35 or 36 (4 years older than Hagler was when he gave up).
thdiller 2 years ago
Bored? Don't cop out now!
you were the one pursuing this, dropping comments on several videos over the last 3 days. I finally reconsidered to give you a chance and prove yourself which you still havent
Seales, Watts, Antuofuermo, Monroe, all have something to brag about. What does Briscoe have to brag about?
Benny wasnt a bad fighter but why is he so much better than Seales, Minter, Sibson, Davison, Roldan, Fletcher, Hamsho? YOu say you were following hagler's career so you should know
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Who cares if they were the same age?! Was that the same Hagler that stopped Hearns and almost lost to Duran?
Pryor beat Hearns when they were amateurs. Hearns was only 17 when they fought. Does that mean that Pryor lasts more than 3 rounds with a prime Hearns you clown?
And you might knock the HOF because they don't recognize Seals, Watts, and Monroe as 3 of the greatest to ever lace them up, but don't you find it odd that you are the only one who feels that those 3 deserve more?
thdiller 2 years ago
But Hagler wasnt an amateur. he had 3 years experience and Seales was the same age remember?
That's right, you dont remember because you made it up!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
You always seem to know the greats for their losses in higher weight classes. What weight class was Hagler in when Leonard beat his ass?
And this is like the 5th or 6th time I'm asking, but please show me an all-time #4# list that ranks Hagler above Leonard and Duran. ANY list will do! If you can't produce one, I think it's obvious that you don't know what the F**K you're talking about!
thdiller 2 years ago
ive asked you 5 times why Briscoe is better than Hagler's title challengers and you still havnet told me
I dont care about your stupid p4p lists made up of Leonard butt kissing fags that began following his career out of the amateurs. he's probably had them all down his house giving them weed and coke!
I dont see how two years with one loss between 1979 & 1981 put you in the HOF. Let him beat Nunn & Norris if he's so great. It shouldnt be too difficult when you're a 3-1 fave over Norris
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
@Piglatinsuperstar again you are talking out your arse piggyboy ! why on here do you always lose the debates ? i'll tell you why because you know fuck all about boxing and you just have a grudge against the sugar man !!
sweetassugar69 1 year ago
@sweetassugar69
these guys are all so slow! When are they gonna get some guys out there like Norris?
Piglatinsuperstar 1 year ago
@Piglatinsuperstar yeah absolutely correct but you should also include julian jackson and simon brown !! lol
sweetassugar69 1 year ago
@sweetassugar69
I love Simon Brown! Did you see the rematch? talk about domination!
Piglatinsuperstar 1 year ago
@Piglatinsuperstar no i all really saw was terrible terry counting sheep in the middle of the ring ! but i will i promise you lol
sweetassugar69 1 year ago
@sweetassugar69
all I saw was Terry boxing rings around Simon, similar to the Leonard ass whipping
Piglatinsuperstar 1 year ago
@sweetassugar69 Leonard is a great boxer..Pig latin will always argue...he rates Norris a guy who had 9 losses...beat an ageing Leonard..
one thing though Leonard got hit a lot by Hearns, Duran and even Kalule...
Mayweathers defence is deifinitely superior
sukhvinderdhesi 1 year ago
@sukhvinderdhesi Piglatin is an idiot, and just hates Leonard. He doesn't know boxing, and just wants to blow Norris, who had a serious glass jaw, even when young.
TA152H01 1 year ago
@sukhvinderdhesi Sugar Ray one of the greatest. Norris had his time but had a weak chin and what the hell what was wrong with him in like losing to this bum by hitting him low like three different fights? Norris was good but not great. Sugar man was great.
imotep09 1 year ago
@Piglatinsuperstar hagler fought these guys( Monroe and Watts) in Philadelphia. I'm from germantown in Philly and let me tell you, yu come to Philly at that time to get a decision? forget about it. Hagler won those fights and Watts and Monroe even admitted that? the draw with seales? Again, Hagler went to seattle, where was SRS from? Seattle. You see the picture I'm painting? You make good points but to be truthful, hagler really should have been undefeated to me.
imotep09 1 year ago
@imotep09
yeah Hagler was the best fighter of the 80s. Jones the best of the 90s
Piglatinsuperstar 1 year ago
and guess why they didnt get shots?
Go on and tell me why. If you cant give me the RIGHT answer then stop writing to me and waisting my time!!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
@thdiller Why is Michael Nunn and greatness being mentioned at the same time??????
imotep09 1 year ago
LOL at sugar rays front flip!
dewayne408 2 years ago
Oh, isn't that cuuuuuuute!!!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
I remember this fight well, it was part of a doubleheader with Tommy Hearns fighting first. Ayub was an ok technical fighter but always lacked real punching power. The Jr. Middleweights were a soft division back then. Maurice Hope was the other champion at the time and Wifred Benitez ko'd him with one punch.
ronsmac 2 years ago
Kalule was already going downhill when he fought Marijan Benes a year before the Leonard fight. Plus he was dead at the weight - Mogens Palle forced him to fight at 154, not 160. Leonard beat a tired old fighter. McCallum, Moore et al beat a corpse. Leonard would have had big problems with a prime Kalule at his natural weight.
xchindit 2 years ago
@xchindit I doubt that. Kalule always went the distance even when young and simply could not punch. SRL would have beated him no matter what stage of his career. He was light hitting good boxer and gave a good performance but Ray would always beat him due to style match up.
imotep09 1 year ago
pryor and Mccallum should have fought the fab 4 but i dont think either did, correct me if wrong...
billyposter 2 years ago
Sugar Ray Leonard was the best for his time although as a welterweight he was at his peak and best but in the comback years he showed them all who the boss was including Mr Marvin hagler who was not so marvelous in 1987 they all lost to Sugar Ray Leonard Duran ,Hearns Hagler, Lalonde,Benitez etc etc
EnioMarini 2 years ago
then Leonard lost to young upstart-my man Terry Norris. 2 bad he couldnt claim TOTAL victory
It would have been nice as long as he was out in the open fighting again, to take on new faces like Nunn instead of Lalonde (HAHA) but I guess Ray didnt feel it was safe for him
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
So ur not going to answer the questions y Norris lost 9 times..
4 times knocked out..
2 times on points?????????
sukhvinderdhesi 2 years ago
I already told you, fouls
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Leonard beat Hagler, Hearns, Duran, and Benitez. Who cares who he lost to or didn't fight at the end of his career? By the time he faced Norris, Leonard was a shell of who he was just 3 years earlier.
You're a pathetic joke! "Oh, he didn't fight Nunn, he lost to Norris, he lost to Camacho, he didn't fight Pryor, he fought a bunch of no names, BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!" Show me a credible all time list that ranks Hagler ahead of Leonard!!
thdiller 2 years ago
Leonard always did things that upset other people. Namely, he fought the best and won. To win his first belt, he stopped the undefeated Benitez. He went toe to toe with Duran and was almost as good at it after 27 pro fights as Duran was after 70. The next fight he made Duran quit with his tail between his legs. After that he moved up one weight class to stop the best guy at that weight, Ayub Kalule, who was undefeated at 36-0. Then he moved back down to welter and stopped the undefeated Hearns.
dagiffy 2 years ago 9
ill tell you what upsets people is that we have to settle for Ray facing another sub par opponent. no one cares if he fights Duran and Hearns 5 years too late. No one cares watching leonarda hagler 6 years late. we want top notch opposition if he's going to get paid millions becuz the level of risk goes along with the amount of payday he gets. What risk is there in facing a Donny lalonde?
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
fans want to see Leonard-Nunn, not Leonard-Lalonde!
We want to see Leonard-McCallum or Jackson instead of Duran & Hearns at the end of the decade destroyed several times over. Nobody gives a shit! No one cares about watching Hagler when he's about to retire. Only early 80s Hagler matters becuz he is the dominant fighter of the decade and the best.
I dont know what Ray was afraid of. The worst that could happen is he gets knocked out. So what? We all know he cant take a shot anyways
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Oh well, at least we got to see Norris-Leonard and see leonard prove himself
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Why is Leonard taunting him all the time?
Jorsalfar 3 years ago
if that had been Norris in front of him instead of Kalule he wouldnt have had the time for taunting; he would have been too busy protecting his chin, fighting for his life.
when he tried it with Terry, he wound up paying for it until he realized it was helping to unnerve Terry any
Leonard never faced anyone with the speed of kalule before. he always waited for opponents to depreciate before he would get in the ring with them
sorry if I offended anyone just thought I'd bring it up
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
If Kalule had more power, it might've been Leonard who would be stopped in the 9th. But he didn't. Kalule was no puncher and Leonard, altho no puncher himself, had more power.
Jorsalfar 2 years ago
Kalule beat Sumbu Kalambay as far as I know. But he also got knocked down twice in that fight and knocked Kalambay down in the last round. It was a split decision.
Jorsalfar 3 years ago
good thing Terry Norris wasnt in front of him. he didnt look too good
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
Kalule was asked can he continue and he replied. Continue what?
Rasclot222 3 years ago
Who ever thinks Kalule won this fight is a fucking idiot
Rasclot222 3 years ago
But the flipside of the obvious is that Kalule was knocked down, he was incoherent and Leonard is an excellent finisher...just a matter of time before he was knocked out anyway...who the fuck cares if it's in the astrodome or the zebrahut!
hannibalsreign 3 years ago
WTF are you blindly hatin' assholes talking about? Is there another fight against Kalule somewhere? Leonard dominated the early rounds, Kalule gave him good shots back and elusive head movement, so Leonard decided to stand mostly flatfooted and simply trade toe-to-toe with Kalule, taking his best and giving it right back...and Kalule got knocked out. I can see as a fan why you would think it was stopped too soon..fans say that cuz they won't concede till their man is totally crushed...same here.
hannibalsreign 3 years ago
Sorry, el loco, Leonard was an all time great. He beat Duran, Hagler, Hearns, Benitez and many others.
Who or what have you ever beaten apart from your dick?
hunk4hire 3 years ago
media darling. got fucked over by Norris, camacho too. Almost forgot Duran beat him. Too bad
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
He was a media darling. For good reason. He was a superb boxer.
As for getting "fucked over", Camacho's victory came when Leonard was 40!! What does that prove exactly? Muhammed Ali was beaten by Trevor Berbick when he was around 40. Want to tell us that this proves Ali wasn't an all time great?
Likewise, the Norris victory came when Leonard was about 35. It took another all time great, Duran, to beat him in his prime.
Leonard's battles with Hagler, Hearns et al will go down in history!
hunk4hire 3 years ago 7
Berbick had his best years ahead of him while Hector already had his best years in the 80s like Ray so it evens out. That's a big difference.
as for the Norris fight, Ray had all the experience, had himself 5 titles to boast of and just came off a dominating performance, and hadnt lost in 11 years. I dont see how any of that adds up to a washed up fighter. When expert observers are telling you how great you looked, then it's hard to take what you're telling me seriously.
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
Finally a Leonard fan admits that he WAS in his prime when Duran beat him. Thank you for that. Roberto was truly great, only Hearns with his monster right and Hagler with his greatness could beat him. Leonard really only beat him once, when Duran was already past his prime.
Jorsalfar 3 years ago
I've never really counted the "no mas" fight as a Leonard victory. Duran just had a mental meltdown. Duran was a truly great fighter. However, so were Leonard and Hearns and Hagler.
Trying to separate them is a futile exercise. Who beat who had a lot to do with differing styles and who had the better fight plan.
But to say that Leonard was just a media darling is pure drivel.
hunk4hire 3 years ago 3
yeah but Hector was 35 himself so that takes the life out of your argument
Ray may have been 34 when he met Norris but wasnt he winning? 11 years in fact. Those 5 championships must have meant something. Or were they merely for show? Maybe something to embellish his image? a little fakery and deception in play perhaps?
Well, we got our answer on Feb. 9 1991. Ray had the experience, Terry had the guns and it didnt take long to expose the fraud and fragility of the overrated saccharin man.
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
yes piggyboy you are a moron all the people here think that !!!! you talk out your arse ! 6 fights in 9 years and just about to turn 35 in may 91 sooner or later father time would catch up !!! ! call yourself an expert in the sweet science
sweetassugar69 2 years ago
stop trying to defend that worthless bum you know it wont work. everyone knows what a fraud he was. all hes good for was leading the senior's tour. everyone from Armando Muniz to Hagler was over the hill. even a 29 year old Duran gave him all he could handle. And Terry Norris? FORGET IT!! When you duck Hagler then replace Nunn, Jackson, McCallum with Lalonde, hearns, Duran (two relics) then get beheaded by Norris all points to one thing-overrated, protected media creation.
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Oh really? So then Hearns and Hagler are cowards for not fighting Nunn and Norris? Hearns fought warriors like Iran Barkley, and Virgil Hill, but when Leonard fights Hearns, He is over the hill? Hagler was not in his prime but he was far from being over the hill. Wow, you think his strategy was wait 5 years, thennnnnnnn fight Hagler and Hearns? You know nothing about taking time off of training and fighting. YOu are talking out of your whooped ass!
songnow 2 years ago
trying to excuse srl for cowardice again. hagler defended his title. ray leonard was another story; he couldnt becuz he was afraid. that's why you see no defenses @ 160. None, zero-like him, a zero!
as for hearns, he was the worst case of damaged goods i ever seen. this would be a new low excpet we're talking about ray leonard, the man who won two titles from Don Lalonde. Now that is funny!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
It's my great regret that Hearns never fought Nunn. The two were so much alike in physique and fighting style that I believe it would be a very exciting and even match. Tommy would win most likely, because he had a stronger punch.
Jorsalfar 2 years ago
That would have been a great fight. The exciting thing about boxing, is that a puncher always has a shot at winning, even if the other fighter has greater skill, it is not always so predictable. However, if I would have had money on Hearns vs Nunn, I would have to put the money on Hearns. One of the best of all time and a super human being.
songnow 2 years ago
Yeah, I agree. Hitman forever!:)
Jorsalfar 2 years ago
1989, Nunn wins. Tommy got knocked out by Barkley. what makes you think hes going to beat Mike? Besides, Tommy way over the hill
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Because Barkley was a puncher, Nunn was more of a boxer. He could score a one punch knockout, like against Kalambay, but that was more by chance.
Jorsalfar 2 years ago
really? It looked to me like Mike saw the opening, he stepped in with it and caught him flush. Sumbu could take 15 rounds of Barkley but he couldnt handle 1 round of Mike. That's how hard mike can hit!
And not only can he hit, he can punch as well. Call him a puncher and a poet
Mike has also stopped Frank Tate to win the tile (never lost) and Curtis Parker with a single uppercut.
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
if your man were really as good as you say he wouldve stopped Terry like he was supposed to. even your excuse about the layoff is bogus becuz according to you, he beat Hagler WITH the layoff and before his other fights. So your argument just fell apart that fast. numbskull!
I can see why you dont like to debate me. you suck! and your argument still dont work becuz Ray got the experience, the titles, the 11 year win streak. Who said he was old? They didnt say that before the fight- Sore loser
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
HAHA, Ayub Kalule! Who's Ayub Kalule?
WHAT is Ayub Kalule? Sounds like something I ate the other day!
he reminded us of Norris. No speed. No movement. No footwork. No punch. No defense.
Just a punching bag on two legs brought in for a payday being led to the slaughter and pad the record of overrated media creation SRL
You got people like Davey Moore with his ten fights cleaning up on this guy the same way-by knockout
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
He was the WBA light middleweight champion before he met Leonard you fool! And he's Ugandan, like John Mugabi. That country produced several fine fighters.
Jorsalfar 2 years ago
so what? He cant fight like Mugabi, he sure as hell cant punch like Mugabi. davey Moore even take him out and only got 10 fights
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
who's Ayub kalule?
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
The guy below has just said exactly wat i said...u still havent explained ur boy Norris's 9 defeats n subsequent brain damage.....
sukhvinderdhesi 2 years ago
what guy below? I dont see nothing. All I see is Leonard against a guy with no speed and no punch and still taking him nine. I dont possibly see how Ray would stand a chance against a fighter like Norris. Ray never faced anyone with the kind of speed Norris had
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
Comment removed
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
@hunk4hire
but Berbick was a young man while Hector was well over 30 and shouldve retired after the Chavez fight, way past it since the end of the 80s
so I dont see the comparison youre making etween Ali & Leonard
Leonard IS NOT ALI! As for Norris, he just had Sugar's number. Leonard had never faced anyone with Norris' speed & couldnt hit a moving target, especially one who could hit back and get Leonard's respect
just wanted to set the record straight
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@hunk4hire
he was a media darling that couldnt take Hagler until he softened up and came all the way down to Leonard's level. Too bad Hector fucked him over and that Hector was over the hill and moving up from three divisions below Leonard's. Pryor wouldve knocked that media mofo out! that's why Leonard backed down from his challenge
Piglatinsuperstar 4 months ago
@Piglatinsuperstar
OK, Leonard was crap. ROFL!!
Happy, now?
Now go spam someone else.
hunk4hire 4 months ago
leonard was a punk,he was never a great fighter,he was a media darling that is all.
elmuco2006 3 years ago
Fucking robbery,Ayub Kalule won this fight ,but the ref help ray leonard to stop this fight ,sp fuck US
jangeorg 3 years ago
Yeah i agree..:) This game was so unfair, kalule was the winner!
Sofeydofey 3 years ago
Er....that was Kalule on the canvas, NOT Leonard.
Leonard was an all time great.
hunk4hire 3 years ago
worst somersault celebration ever
ROYALPRIMUS 3 years ago
Piglatin - What i see is SRL taking Kalule lightly. You see Ray isnt even concerned much with his defense as he is just walking right through Kalules punches. Ray would be more prepared for a guy like Terry Norris. Also keep in mind this is at 154. You see SRL looks a little chubby in the mid section. SRL is a natural 147. Thats when he was at his fastest.
Had Norris fought prime SRL it has to be at 147. Again Norris couldnt even stop 35 year old SRL
bscottdp 3 years ago
terry dont have to stop him. outpointing him is good enough. i dont see no way ray can do nothing to terry but you saying no man can compete with ray in 1981 so i look at srl from 1981 and dont see nothing terry got to worry about. Terry will beat both ray leonard AND kalule. he beat larry bonds but he is nothing. and tommy just begginig his career and is a skinny kid who need a lot of teaching. the tommy hearns who marvin hagler fight is a lot lot better! faster, stronger, and invincible
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
i wouldnt call hearns invincible
ROYALPRIMUS 3 years ago
You really dont have a fucking clue of what u r talking about...u have a big lack og knowledge in boxing since u dont know who kalule is.. kalule was a fighter and a true player. Ray was on crack at that poin. So dont u dare Critizising kalule, when u dont know a shit about boxing... kalule was so much better in that game than Ray, the only resson why he did'nt won was because it was held in the US and they cheated... it's so typical american...!!!
Sofeydofey 3 years ago
It was a comment for Piglatinsuperstar...
Sofeydofey 3 years ago
You're a boxing expert, eh? I'm impressed. You must have missed Kalule lying on the canvas.
Was that a conspiracy too? Oh, I know. If the ref had only let the fight continue, Kalule would have KO'ed Leonard, right?
Dream on.
You idiots will dream up any excuse rather than admit an American was a great boxer.
Those who REALLY understand boxing, as opposed to third world, anti-American morons, are unanimous in calling Leonard one of the all time greats.
Now go back to humping your goats.
hunk4hire 3 years ago
You are a moron.
Jorsalfar 3 years ago
where is ray leonard vs. prime hagler, Micheal nunn, rematch with Hearns (1984 version) leonard vs Pryor, Leonard vs. Curry, Leonard vs, Honeyghan, leonard vs. McCallum, leonard vs. Mugabi
so, so many matchups that didnt happen becuz of leonard's cowardice all we get is leonard lalonde and leonard camacho. what a waste of talent
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
you can see from this fite that ray would be too slow for Norris but he is faster than kalule
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
There is no evidence that 1976 Olympics thru 1982 as a professional that SRL could not handle speed figters. Why? Because he was the speed fighter.
Piglatin - You mentioned Hearns in another post but forgot to mention Hearns was 6-1 with a long reach and big right hand.
Terry Norris is 5-10 with short arms.
Hearns speed is not what gave Ray problems. It was the 6-1 height, reach and fear of Tommy's 1 punch KO power. SRL could have knocked him out 6th round had he been more aggressive.
bscottdp 3 years ago
If you recall, Norris had no difficulty with speedy fighters because of his even greater speed. This was also the case with young Hector Camacho who always dealt harshly with similar speedsters Coverson, Davis in blowouts.
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
there is no evidence that he could handle speed. Who has Ray ever fought that had speed? Only Hearns and Tommy beat him in the game of boxing easy. Ray didnt really have the experience that Hagler had. Who had Ray ever fought that had the speed of Norris? There's really no one. There's no Terry Norris, no Micheal Nunn who he ducked, no Meldrick Taylor, and no Hector Camacho. Ray Leonard never fought a man who had speed. It wasn't Tommy's reach and height that gave Ray problems it was his speed.
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
Piglatinsuperstar - Question?
How would 35 year old Terry Norris do against 1980 23 year old Ray Leonard. You get the point. Norris was 23 years old in his prime and Ray was 35 years old coming off multiple layoffs since 1982.
Like i said, lets switch up things. 35 year old Terry Norris vs 23 year old Ray Leonard. It woud be worse results for Norris then wha he did a 23 to 35 year old SRL. Ray would have put him in a coma.
bscottdp 3 years ago
Thank you for your concern. Prime for prime, Norris was faster and tougher than leonard. In 1980, Leonard had already lost to Duran who was not as fast as Norris. Duran was really nothing more than a lightweight but still stepped up two weight classes to beat Leonard. While Norris on the other hand was a natural 154 pounder, bigger, faster than Duran, much better than Kalule. Not surprisingly, Terry had no problem with Leonard despite a decided disadvantage in experience to Leonard.
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
The only way that would happen is if Terry came into the fight a sick man. There would have to be something drastically wrong with him. If you recall, Terry excelled at putting speedy fighters under and very quickly, something that Leonard was never able to claim due to his limited experience.
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
Well said. Norris was used up by the time he was 30. I personally saw him train in San Diego for a long time and his gym wars were legionary. Sugar Ray had a much, much better chin. Duran was an incredible fighter that went from 135lbs. all the way to 165 and in his 40's. Sugar Ray is an all time great as well as Duran. Terry Norris was a bright star that diminished too soon.
Archias01 3 years ago
Leonard couldn't beat Terry on his best day! The fight wasn't even close. Only the first two rounds were close until Terry got serious and loosened up. After that, he didn't work up a sweat. Leonard was working as hard as he could and was still no contest. Like I said, Ray can't handle a good speedy boxer I saw it in the 1st hearns fight and with the Norris performance I became even more adamant in my opinion of him. Leonard's jab couldn't find Norris' head with a map and a compass!
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
Star I aggree with you! But this was a Leonard who kept coming back for no reason at all!77-82 is the Leonard I am reffering to.
1975tooto 3 years ago
who the fuck is terry norris is he your boyfriend or something! you talk no sense about boxing at all ! terry norris faded very fast and will never be remembered the way leonard is ! leonard in 82 would have destroyed norris! pig you know shit about boxing
sweetassugar69 3 years ago 2
Thank you for your concern. Who is Terry Norris you ask? Terry Norris is the man who destroyed Sugar Ray leonard and retired him. What counts is what actually happened in the ring, not what we would have LIKED TO SEE HAPPEN.
Piglatinsuperstar 3 years ago
Come on gentlemen lets not kill each other Leonard was the most complete boxer of the 80's he could box had fast hands a good chin a pop in his punch and a very good boxing brain.Norris matched Leonard in most departments but his chin would have let him down with a young Sugar ray and he was no where nears as smart as ray was.
SpiritFearon 3 years ago
Terry Norris was flattened by Julian Jackson.
sje1964 3 years ago 2