Shinohara vs Douillet ANALYSED !!! — 2000 Sydney Olympic Judo +100kg Final

[tmme1234]

Please watch my new video:

Korean Martial Arts: Why and How They Steal Other Countries' Martial Arts

watch?v=E7l2Ezy2RAw&context=C3­0ebce4ADOEgsToPDskIKNLjY112npE­U7wGzum6S0



[lallope]

oh dam yes Douillet did loose. but a call is a call, I myself had bad calls it is part of the game and sport but Douillet knew who won. Maybe I am wrong after 30 years of judo but to person below who argue pulling down and throwing down. Uki-otoshi, Sumi-otoshi, and finally Uchi Mata Sukashi, beautiful, which is exactly what that was. Who's shoulders hit first. There are other throws that would then be pull. Tsurikoki is a lift pull, technique started with a tsurikomi would b a pull?

[hayek218]

@lallope

Do you mean me?

What I meant was pulling while in the state of shinitai, i.e. while both of the legs are in the air.

[hayek218]

1. In a site named "BetterJudo," the author argues Douillet's uchimata is worth yuko while Shinohara should get ippon if there were a two point system.

The author seems to be confused with "throwing down" and "pulling down by inertia of the opponent's throw," as he ignores the concept of control and shinitai. He calls his judo a better judo, but it is no longer the Judo if he ignores these concepts.

(continued)

[hayek218]

2. I raised him a question, and in his reply to me he said "If I foot sweep you and put you on your back while not having any grip on you, do I score? Of course, I do,"

To this, I answered by saying,

"Of course, you do. But what if I hold your belt while I am in the air and pull you down with me by the resulting force of the inertia from your foot step? Do I get yuko in your double score system? Of course, not,"

(continued)

[hayek218]

3. to which he did not reply.

But this is exactly what happened. As in Photo 5, Doullet was in the air, or shinitai, and pulling Shinohara's belt while Shinohara's right foot is holding on. Looking at Douillet's foot in Photo 4 and his shinitai position in Photo 5, he could not possibly have exerted this force by himself.

(end)

[showeroffire]

Deff Ippon. I always thought that maybe it was a punishment call for Shinohara not following up with ne waza. But if I'm Shinohara and I toss someone directly on their back and the Ref right next to me has his hand in the air... I'm getting up too.

[StarrettCityKid]

everyone knows this was an Ippon win By Shinohara......

[Oneironaut3]

Excellent video.

[popozitoira]

no doubt; shinohara desserve the gold...

"from a french guy"

[xxxxShakespearexxxx]

Douillet LOST of course

[mayari2008]

IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON IPPON no yuko.

[MrAceSeven1]

It was to 100 percent Shinoharas victory!!!

I must see no replay to know this.

[Tormekian3rdArmy]

The referees are not good enough to make judgement. That's simple as that.

Of course, I've never thought a referee who doesn't know sukashi existed.

[Judobigdog]

This was an excellent technical analysis. Well done sir.

I was living in Japan at the time this happened. I remember the outrage from my fellow judoka's regarding this decision.

This is as classic a textbook example of how to do this throw. It does not get any better.

[Nebuchanezher]

very intresting vidio, i started judo after this happen, but even i can see that your commentations are biased, you keep saying that Shinohara doged/countered "perfectly" but he doesn't even do the follow through in the right direction for it to be so. In what I see he himself on photo 12 is landing on his side in the wrong direction for countering but right for being thrown, but at the same time douillet is on his back and by the type of uchimata that he did was on the right side for a...

[manapapa0218]

@Nebuchanezher

You are failing to understand the concept of Shinitai. You should read the comments more carefully. Shinohara fell by intertia from Shinitai. Douillet went upside down from uchimatasukashi. There is no other source of force.

[scarecrowJ89]

yea, whatever.

it was an ippon, allright. but it was the only action i got to see from shinohara during the whole fight and then, on top of that, a counter. not the japanese style at all. douillet dominated the fight and was working his ass off, making one attempt after the other.

i'm actually quite happy with the judge's decision.

[tmme1234]

@scarecrowJ89

You admitted it was an ippon, but you are also happy with the yuko call for Douillet. So, you are contradicting yourself. Remember, nobody is interested in hearing whether you are happy or how you feel: what the people are seeking is the JUDO and TRUTH, but none of which you are seem to be interested in. So, obviously we have no common ground to talk about this issue, and I ask you not to comment again. It's such a waste of time for both of us.

[alezyz]

@scarecrowJ89 ippon is an ippon and there is nothing to doubt about

[unimaculata]

@scarecrowJ89 Yes the loser is always with such decision.

[elmo1029]

Shinohara knew that it was clear Ippon. Also, Douillet knew that he was being thrown. But, quickly Shinohara realized that his uchimata-sukashi was too sharp for these incapable referees to identify, as happened many times in the past for they have not seen this level of waza before.

However, Shinohara by his graciousness, calmly accepted the way his life turned out to be, and refuse to be hostile to Olympic, IJF or Douillet. What a great Judo-ka.

[xefef]

@elmo1029 Yep all the action lasted 2 frames so less than 100ms (quantum of human visual analysis) . And everyone saw in real time it was ippon .... because everyone is terminator like you.

[elmo1029]

@xefef

2. It does not mean that these people in the first video are super men nor you are dumb. It just means that they have trained eyes that they can see the WHOLE FLOW of movements for correct judgments.

There would be very little Japanese referees who would have missed that Shinohara’s uchimata-sukashi because they are more used to this waza in Japan that they have better eyes for that. Believe it or not, it is VERY CLEAR.

I suggest you train your waza before accusing others.

[elmo1029]

@xefef

1.　You don't have to be a terminator to identify this waza.

For example, take a look at this.

watch?v=DVt1WXk8cWU

I’m sure you cannot tell who won. Yet, no referees made mistake about this and nobody is unhappy about the judgment.

In kendo, judgment is more difficult than in fencing; you have to hit the opponent in a way that you would kill him, so that just touching the opponent would not score anything. You can see that in this lower quality match.

watch?v=tpEtDAEwz0w

[ortizunderdog]

@elmo1029 Very different was when Riner lost to Kakikawa this year (Kamikawa really deserved the win). And before any trash talking from someone, no, I'm not Japanese. I'm Brazilian, alas a retired Judo referee.

[elmo1029]

@ortizunderdog

Yes, I saw it. it was terrible, even if he was right (though I agree with you that if anything, the judgement was right).

I was sad... This is one obvious drawback to make Judo into sport.

In martial arts, you need three things, mind, techniques and body. The mind is always the hardest to come by.... Riner demonstrated that to the whole world.

[hayek218]

After 10 years, I still vividly remember the comments he made in the interview. Asked if he has anything to say about the match, he said confidently I lost the match because I am weak. That's all there is to this. Then asked again if he wants to say anything about the judgement, he said No, I don't. The words are so strong that they just wouldn't go away from my memory.

With these words he demonstrated his deeper understanding of Judo and acted as such. He is a true honorable Judo-ka.

[jprova]

Great job, very comprehensive video, the uchimata-sukashi to me is actually a very beautifull and pure judo technique and follows one of the judo principals, using the force of your oponent and make maximum use of it.

[RayanFern]

I bow you Sir!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Great job!!!!!!!! Those bastards robbed the gold from the true winner!!!!!!!!!!!!! Same thing happened to me when I tried to execute an Ochimata but the win was correctly awarded to my opponent.

[niiieee]

i didn'T know this counter til now. first i watched a real time video i thought nice hand throw (te waza?)...

thanks for explaining it that detailed.

[loudenvier]

I screamed in disbelief when ippon was not awarded to Shinohara!!! Two out of three referees in error is something I can't really forgive.

[troileh]

Very interesting analysis of the combat, I learnt a lot of what happened because I even thought that Douillet won the fight with the video slow motion sequence.

With the photos is completely clear that Sinohara was the true winner.