All the amazingly intricate philosophy and empathy based morality Inmendham talks about falls completely flat in your "first person" interaction to life and antinatalism. I get it, you're not having kids... where does the rest of the planet that will have kids, and their kids' kids (and the animals, cosmic or Earthly) get salvation? If Inmendhams rhetoric is really honest, then just sitting back and waiting for the universe to end on it's own is... anticlimactic, dishonest.
@badblueman ''where do the rest of the people that will have kids, and their kids' kids (and the animals, cosmic or Earthly) get salvation?''
I've addressed the 'cosmic' issue already. Do you honestly know how desperate you sound when you start citing the POSSIBLE existence of extra terrestrial life elsewhere in the universe as an excuse for people to do whatever the hell they like here on Earth?
Those people are screwed but creating even more people who will also be screwed is JUST PLAIN DUMB!
@badblueman ''If Inmendhams rhetoric is really honest, then just sitting back and waiting for the universe to end on it's own is... anticlimactic, dishonest.''
The universe appears to be heading for a heat death. You think a product of evolution can destroy the universe in the meantime? That seems a rather grandiose plan and a ridiculous rationalization for creating a child to play peek-a-boo with. Mankind's unfailing and unwarranted arrogance is yet another reason why mankind and DNA is fucked
@DerivedEnergy No. I don't want children. I'm saying people want children. Unless you're a biotech. PhD working on a virus that will sterilise all (like in the movie Children of men-good movie), then you have no way to morally validate your philosophy. It's a self centred rationalization using a (imo) valid moral system (antinatalism). It's not about grandiose plans...it's about consistency in philosophy. If we don't have that, then all these vids are even more of a joke.
@badblueman ''Unless you're a biotech. PhD working on a virus that will sterilise all (like in the movie Children of men-good movie), then you have no way to morally validate your philosophy.''
I have no way of stopping all the rape, child abuse and torture that goes on in the world either but I still have a right to speak out against all these unethical acts also.
@DerivedEnergy Yes, great -speak out. But if all you do is speak, then in 50,000 years man will still be raping and having children. That's what I'm talking about with "plan"...antinatalism puts you into a situation where you can't really help anybody, all you can do is stay moral according to your own newfound values.
That's why I was talking about aliens. They may not be aliens, they can be future humans...meaning: they will still suffer and "we" didn't help by not having kids.
@badblueman '..they can be future humans...meaning: they will still suffer and "we" didn't help by not having kids.''
If you are born you are guaranteed to suffer at some points and surely die. That is what you create when you have kids. You want to reduce suffering on Earth by creating MORE people who will needlessly suffer in the future? That's a treadmill process at best and egoism that you think the world is salvageable. Life is a suffering generating engine and you endorse it by breeding.
@DerivedEnergy No. I want to reduce suffering by redirecting effort away from a self centred "I'll have no kids; my antinatalism responsibility is fulfilled", to a more "suffering is the reason antinatalism exists; let's redirect humanity into a place where it's reduced or done away with".
I'm not saying you have to have kids. I'm saying that you not having kids does absolutely nothing for the kids that are being born to other people. These two are not exclusive.
@badblueman ''to a more "suffering is the reason antinatalism exists; let's redirect humanity into a place where it's reduced or done away with".''
What do you mean done away with? You mean no more suffering on Earth and everybody lives happily ever after, amen? Don't insult my intelligence. As for suffering: it ebbs and flows like a river. When extinction comes there will be a great deal of suffering and if you breed you are propelling other consciousnesses towards that event.
@badblueman ''you not having kids does absolutely nothing for the kids that are being born to other people.''
If we lived in a saner world and mankind had reached a consensus that rendering the planet devoid of animal life and discontinuing our species was the most ethical route to take, then a good case could be made for VERY limited and controlled procreation in order to gracefully achieve these goals. However, that's NOT the world we live in so one should therefore act with humility and grace
@DerivedEnergy Hence the reason people bring up transhumanism and the likes to the table when talking to antinatalists. You expressed a fatalistic attitude of humility and grace. The non antinatalists proposing tech. solutions can't see the rationality of brushing off the idea of finding an end to suffering through potential tech. solutions. What's with the black and white "Either everybody is smart and stops life... or all we can do is be humble while it goes on". I disagree.
@badblueman ''Either everybody is smart and stops life... or all we can do is be humble while it goes on". I disagree.''
Life stops every time someone dies but rationalizing individuals such as yourself keep resuscitating the dead and trying to justify it all by schizophrenically talking about aliens in outer space and breathlessly talking about a time when suffering is completely done away with.
@DerivedEnergy Wow... it is not me who keeps resuscitating the dead...it's you. That's what I've been saying all this time. You are the one who has this idyllic "everything will be fine when I die childless"...I say "It doesn't matter whether you die childless or not, your action against suffering is what matters". It's a universal fact that you'll not stop life. Therefore the morally antinatalistic way forward is a suffering reducing philosophy, not fatalism and depression.
@badblueman Not, at all. I acknowledge that there will be great suffering ahead after I die but at least I can go to my grave knowing that I didn't personally create another disposable victim to be used up and spat out by DNA.
''It doesn't matter whether you die childless or not''
Arguably the most important decision one can ever make in their entire lives and it doesn't matter.
''It's a fact that you'll not stop life.''
All life leads to extinction. I'm not going to help keep it going.
Life leads to death and extinction. Life is nothing if not fatal.
''and depression''
Depression or insanity. I prefer depression thanks. That way I don't have to jabber on like a fool about how people have a moral obligation to have children so that they can save aliens that may or may not exist thousands or millions of light years away. And what about the billions of years after homo sapiens all die? Such thoughts cheer me up and help dissipate the depression ;)
@DerivedEnergy That tells me that either you haven't the level of moral value of Inmendham, or that I was mistaken to draw on my knowledge of his videos when debating you. I'd like to point out that I didn't say you had any obligation to have children to "save aliens". You just like to strawman me. I said that you don't care enough to push sentient life in a direction where suffering may not exist.
Also there is a third option, besides depression or insanity, it's detachment.
@badblueman You said: ''YOU'RE going to STOP PROCREATION ON EARTH and THEN WHAT?'' You also said: ''where do the people that will have kids, and their kids' kids (and the animals, COSMIC or Earthly) get salvation?''
Then you said: ''I'd like to point out that I didn't say you had any obligation to have children to "save aliens".
''push sentient life in a direction where suffering may not exist''
@badblueman ''What's with the black and white "Either everybody is smart and stops life... or all we can do is be humble while it goes on". I disagree.''
There's no finishing line other than the extinction of our species. Being 'humble' involves recognizing that you are simply a dying animal and that your DNA doesn't contain magical qualities that need to be passed on so humanity can save aliens trillions of miles away or to work towards creating anything even remotely resembling a 'utopia'.
@DerivedEnergy You here and Gary in general both validate what I say about reality, but then cocoon in some self-defensive depression. So what if DNA is fucked up... either kill yourself, do something, or tell us whining is what you're doing. You have a convincing show, but nothing except "I'll have no kids (*)" when challenged on a plan.
(*)I guess this is the problem. How to be objective and work for a solution in a philosophy based on subjective moral self-gratification.
@badblueman ''but then cocoon in some self-defensive depression.''
Remaining childfree is not placing yourself in a 'cocoon'. It's simply not breeding. As for depression, I've never needed any medication or counselling. I just happen to be a sensitive, perceptive and intellectually inquisitive person.
''either kill yourself''
Have a quick snack. Then take out the trash. Then kill myself. Screw my family. Got it.
''do something''
I am doing something. I'm holding up a mirror to humanity.
@DerivedEnergy I meant "kill yourself" in a philosophical debate kind of way. I would be happy and having raunchy sex if I was normal...there is a reason I'm philosophising and watching Inmendham vides, and it's not because I'm happy.
Good. I'm not somebody to tell/judge what to do. Hold a mirror if you must. I'm looking further. Where I do not know. The idea that all I can do is hold mirrors is more depressing than the idea of killing myself. I'm looking for actual solutions.
@DerivedEnergy That was also my point about the moral self-gratification. Can one not be conscious of the futility of conscious life in the universe and not be depressed at the same time? There seems to be an inherent martyrdom to antinatalists. It's like some poetic greek myth "badbluman was punished by the gods to suffer holding the mirror...forever". For all the determinism one seems to muster as an antinatalist, surely transhumanism, "fuck it buddhism" etc. can't hurt?
@badblueman There's a lot to 'whine' about. 200,000 years of homo sapiens suffering and dying because of a stupid DNA molecule with no obvious end in sight to this madness. It's very childish to believe in fictitious gods, angels, free will, a fixed, unitary self and inevitable and unilateral moral progress but belifef in those notions currently seems to be very adult-like behaviour, even in 2012AD. The facts of the human condition are often brutal and need sweetening with childish fantasies.
@badblueman ''You have a convincing show, but nothing except "I'll have no kids (*)" when challenged on a plan.''
Try to be a nice person, offer to help others when you can and try not to engage in activities that cause suffering (both to one's own species and to those that belong to othersr. If you have the time, money, energy and enthusiasm to raise children then consider adoption - literally millions of kids need a good home.
@DerivedEnergy That is the obvious answer for anybody with empathy and reason, or empathy based moral value...I was talking about a "plan" in the philosophical sense, a sense of developing a healthier relationship to the universe. Why you (antinatalism in general) still force yourself into a depressive state of "I can't beat the universe therefore it all sucks". This is what I don't get. Or it could be just my perception, that's also possible. For all I know you're all jolly...
@badblueman ''How to be objective and work for a solution in a philosophy based on subjective moral self-gratification.''
It's an objective fact that deprivation and suffering cannot occur in the absence of sentience - ergo everyone is unnecessarily harmed by coming into existence. I have every right to express my dissatisfaction at this depressing state of affairs. So far all I've pretty much got from you are ad hominim attacks; talk of aliens; and invitations to kill myself. Very mature.
@DerivedEnergy a) there was no ad homenim; saying "you're wrong because you're X" is not what I even considered doing... b) invitations to kill yourself? There was no invitation to suicide, what is it with your paranoia; I explained the reason for bringing up suicide and it wasn't all about you. Sorry, but my philosophy doesn't revolve around your life, your suicide or lack thereof...c) My maturity levels are apparently a function of your emotional perception of events.
Transhumanism might save all the creatures on Earth, but we can't save the universe. With sextillions of stars, billions of years, it's a lost cause.
The difference between a Buddha and Gary is that Gary can't let go. Buddha sat under a tree and realized that he can't do anything about reality, that it's hopeless, which gave him enlightenment, i.e. a spiritual "fuck this, I don't give a shit" experience. So Gary is a sort of self imposed martyr for morality in a moral-less world.
@badblueman ''but we can't save the universe. With sextillions of stars, billions of years, it's a lost cause.''
What? If you don't feel comfortable with the notion of creating sentient beings who will needlessly suffer and die then don't procreate.
''Buddha sat under a tree and realized that he can't do anything about reality, that it's hopeless, which gave him enlightenment, i.e. a spiritual "fuck this, I don't give a shit" experience.''
@DerivedEnergy You misunderstand. You have this Abrahamic notion of a one time "soul", a "me" who lives and then disappears forever.
The antinatalists have a right to judge the process by which they were produced. Human consciousness isn't a thing, it's an event and there will be more "Gary events" in the future or on other planets. Antinatalism isn't some ideological fad, it's an attempt to solve a horrifying existential problem central to reality. It will fail, hence Buddhism.
A possibility to be sure but so what? The nearest star system is 25 trillion miles (4.25 light years) away and I find it EXTREMELY likely that mankind will implode before inter-stella travel is possible. IF our descendants DID go on a 'save the aliens jaunt' can you begin to imagine the amount of sentient beings that might be created? I find rape unacceptable as well as procreation. Should I not speak out against rape because it MIGHT happen on OTHER PLANETS?
@DerivedEnergy I didn't know you were an antinatalist. I still don't get what you're trying to say though. It seems as if all you're concentrating on is human procreation, not the whole Inmendham philosophy. Yes you should speak out, it's what makes us human and what our intellect is here for. But what next?
You're going to stop procreation on Earth and then what? You're going to let your celestial cousins suffer? What did you accomplish? These are for you to answer to yourself.
@badblueman ''I didn't know you were an antinatalist.''
270 Youtube videos and counting.
''You're going to stop procreation on Earth and then what?''
I doubt it. A few averted births here and there is more realistic.
''You're going to let your celestial cousins suffer?''
You advocate that I create children so that mankind can go on 'save the alien' missions in the future? I wasn't aware that this constitutes one of the reasons why parents decide to bear children. I must have missed that meeting.
i) No certain knowledge that we are not alone in the universe - it could well be a wild goose chase.
ii) Fermi's paradox reinforces the point above. If there is other life out there it's spectacularly rare - like looking for a needle in a haystack..
iii) Inter-stella travel may well be a step too far for us before we implode as a species. In fact, I would argue that we're never going to leave our solar system.
@badblueman '' let your celestial cousins suffer?''
v) If life from Earth branches out into the universe then an unimaginably large number of suffering sentient beings could be created in the process of us preventing our 'celestial cousins' from suffering.
vi) There's no indication that preventing suffering would be a priority for mankind If despite all these objections you still feel we have a moral obligation to create future humans to 'patrol the universe' then:
@DerivedEnergy I don't understand what's your prime directive. Gary always goes on about animals suffering, humans suffering...how we're all slaves to DNA.
Do I understand correctly that the only problem you're concentrated on is the problem of human purposelessness in the universe?
I really don't understand why humans are on such a pedestal. Why antinatalism, why not anti-life then? All life. I'm not suggesting anything now, I just want to know what's the point of antinatalism?
@DerivedEnergy What I've heard from Inmendham, made me think that his antinatalism has a deep philosophical basis, generally centred around an existential angst of sorts related to being a puny little thing in an evil universe. I see it as a valid standalone perception... but in what way does killing off the human population through attrition of births fix any of that? What's perplexing is that he talks about the aliens, the emergent nature of consciousness himself. I see it as a non sequitur.
@badblueman ''in what way does killing off the human population through attrition of births fix any of that?''
I never said anything about killing anyone. To breed or not to breed: that is the question If you don't breed then you can look yourself in the mirror and know that you didn't take it upon yourself to create someone who will needlessly suffer and die. If you don't think that's worth anything then you're not cut out to be a AN
@DerivedEnergy Need is in the perceiver. look at those anti-Inmendhams. They all like to talk about suffering and how it gives them purpose and bla bla bla.
I agree, I don't want to make people who will suffer...but what if he's one of the "I can take it; I like life" people? I'm not saying that we have to let the non-existent have a chance...I'm saying that antinatalist philosophy you have is more of a fulfilment of your own moral standpoint... I simply find it unproductive.
What does the maker of this video think about transhumanism. Replacing mindless natural selection with guided evolution, so humans take their existence into their own hands using advanced technology.
This narrator sounds like a religious person when they point out how little chance there was of this happening, yet it happened anyway. Then they sound like an atheist at other times. (and like an angry teenager at other times.)
Honestly, I was expecting some interesting, reasonable, intelligent, logical, critical-thinking speech. But all we got from this video is a guy who sounds like some emo kid, laying on his bed, staring at the ceiling, arguing with himself about life.
@suicunesrider Interesting, "sounds like a religious person" sounds like you've got no argument, he's just talking about the [im]probability, Dawkins talks about this too, only he preaches that we daren't call life monotonous, go tell him he sounds religious: watch?v=kGGmuUvA2Mg. You sound like a religious person when you imply that [intelligent] life wasn't a bizarre chance occurance, but rather meant to be. I was expecting an intelligent, logical comment, nah, I honestly wasn't.
@2:13 i'm still astonished of how quick the cheetah responds to the gazelle's meneuvering. virtually instant. like schools of fish changing direction together when under attack. humans can't even come close to that kind of reflex.
Im sorry teenagers and middle-aged people of the world but no amount of Nike shoes, Plasma TV's, Ikea furniture or building immese track of new housing, is in any way going to help us deal with the issues were facing in the future. Your priorities are fucked.
If you think of the issues in the world today because of 7 Billion people then compare that to 10 Billion or 12 Billion. How would you feed and educate and employ all these people, all these needs?
Hmm aside from some issues I have with this movie I should add that this idea of the carbon cycle is a simple model that does not account for the fact that the earth has been sequestering an ever increasing percentage of atmospheric carbon into rocks. There is no law that says it can't sequester so much carbon that life takes a huge hit. During the last ice age the amount of CO2 was about 180 ppm. Plant life ends at about 150 ppm. Scary stuff.
@Antiks72 Right on!! "I praise, I do not reproach, nihilism's arrival. I believe it is one of the greatest crises, a moment of the deepest self-reflection of humanity. Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength!" - [Friedrich Nietzsche]
@Wittgensteinism That's only if you measure it in per capita terms. But from a negative-utilitarian perspective, per capita violence is irrelevant. What matters is the gross magnitude of violence and resultant suffering. And I'd say the 20th century was probably the worst in human history from that perspective, despite the fact that the explosion in population allows a smaller percentage of the pubic to fight the wars and commit the genocide.
I hope you are right. However, since fossil fuels, minerals, soil and fresh water are becoming scarce and human population is growing exponentially, a possible spike in suffering might be coming.
@Wittgensteinism You're absolutely right about violence between humans directly decreasing, however, I would argue the capitalist model, simply exports and disguises violence.
With capitalism instead of killing humans en masse, we simply force humans into slavery, on a hierarchy based on random conditions, such as being in a third world country, or being in a first world country but with parents that don't give fundamental survival skills for this society (as insidious as they may be).
@Seedr0 The amount of violence people suffer has increased a lot since days of old, sir; only in terms of percentage has it decreased, and percentage is a lousy way to do comparisons with past human behaviour, especially now that we're in a population of 7 billion (and should be way more advanced/civilized by now, which we would be if everyone wasn't so caught up with their own agenda). And yes, there's certainly some violence that's never reported, and that nobody ever finds out about.
@6hitk0 You're intimidated by the facts of life, she said it quite clearly, and your reluctance to adress anything rationally is a clear indicator of this. There's no point in perpetuating life and mindlessly imposing it on others until its inevitable extinction, but it should be obvious (even to the most idiotic of people), that we think there is a point to spreading understanding and reducing suffering. Kill one's self? Morons like you always have to make it personal, why is that, I wonder...
I am *not* claiming that the world is "nice" in any objective way. My view is that the hedonistic premise (that suffering *ought* to be stopped) is incorrect. It is not a "natural observation" and there is no way it can be demonstrated objectively.
@Ohcacful "the hedonistic premise (that suffering *ought* to be stopped) is incorrect"
Hedonistic? If you need the notion that suffering is bad (and shouldn't be perpetuated) to be demonstrated objectively before you accept it, then why don't you apply that same criteria to perpetuating life? It's a natural observation that a sentient creature's top priority is avoiding suffering, if you're honest you'll agree that this is the truth. Answer this... slavery: is it, good, bad, or subjective?
No, the hedonistic premise has nothing to do with the fact that a sentient creature's top priority is to avoid suffering. The fact that suffering is avoided does not mean it *ought* to be. Slavery is *subjective*, even if I *feel* that it is repulsive. By the way, I never claimed that perpetuating life was *objectively good* either, only that it wasn't *objectively bad*. I *think* that's what you meant by "applying the same criteria to perpetuating life", but correct me if not.
@Ohcacful Slavery is subjectively wrong, okay, that's all I needed to hear, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't think that rationality, logic, and reason are on your side on it, because they honestly aren't. I wasn't implying that you thought it 'good', but unless you're a nihilist, you should want it to be demonstrated as one way or the other. You obviously think all ethics are subjective there's no discussion (about ethics or the truth of sentient life) to be had here.
@Ohcacful I think it's funny how you think that slavery is only subjectively wrong because we FEEL it is, and not because we UNDERSTAND that imposing suffering on others isn't right, then you argue like your opinion about suffering not mattering is objectively correct (most likely because you read it in a silly book one time). If something as obvious and fundamental as suffering is only subjectively a bad thing, and presumably unimportant, why should anything, namely your opinion be important?
@L00NGB00W This 'depressing worldview' is merely an honest description of life that cannot be debunked with the word cool. I love how the main contention with this video is usually along the lines of: "How dare someone suggest that atheists who worship the notion of life and evolution (because they personally find it cool) aren't really atheists!"... this is such a lame complaint for someone who finds no problem with two billion years (or more) of suffering (to produce cool dinosaurs) to leave.
I merely accept them as facts. Life is astounding! To think that all these complex machines could arise from an uncaring universe? That empathy could originate from random mindless interactions?! Incredible! I think it's rather narrow minded to focus only on pain when there is so much more. And rather than try to fix the problems life might experience, Antinatalism's solution is to simply 'give up' so to speak. I find that lame. Just my opinion mind you.
@L00NGB00W Yes, it is just your opinion. The facts of life are: it's is a crude, ignorant, unintelligent DNA competition, nothing but an agenda of a consuming and reproducing DNA molecule. You're free to jump into the cesspool headfirst if you want to, you can attempt to delude yourself into believing that it's 'astounding' (watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs), and that you're accomplishing something (re: "giving up"), but the fact is that nobody has a right to impose this shithole (and suffering) on OTHERS.
@L00NGB00W You are a very smart individual. Don't listen to those jackasses who don't have any respect for your opinions. Your beliefs should be respected just as much as their's.
@L00NGB00W The fact that you believe_sentient life itself_is 'cool' has no bearing on the reality of what it's been doing for two billion years. The fact that you find the suffering endured so far (and the suffering that will be endured in the future) acceptable, or unworthy of discussion, just goes to show how fanatical you are about your beliefs. Fact is, you're very lucky in the respect that you're reasonably safe, privileged, comfortable, and that your life isn't unbearable (at this moment).
Life has been suffering for (ahem) approx 3.8 billion years. Accepted.
I accept the suffering of the past, because it happened. But much has arisen from this suffering. We've moved from monocellular life to empathic caring humans. And acquired wisdom.
You must agree, that we've only been thinking clearly for the past 200k years or so. A tiny fraction time. In the past 300 years, we've accomplished the most. Imagine 3.5 billion years of wisdom. Will we suffer as much then?
That is basically the line of thought I'm headed for. I'm quite fortunate to live in the era and location I do. But it has little to do with luck, and more to do with the results of our endeavours.
We stand on the shoulders of giants (whom suffered). To give up now would be to ignore all of that. To throw it all in the wastebin. And to let this mindless universe start all over again from scratch. Ready to suffer anew.
@L00NGB00W "I'm quite fortunate to live in the era and location I do. But it has little to do with luck, and more to do with the results of our endeavours."
I don't have the inclination, or the patience to correct insane jibber jabber like this..
@graytaich0 you're just another example of a person who has NO RESPECT for other human beings. You think you are so "wise," and everyone whos opinion is different from your's is stupid. I don't neccessarily agree with the person you are arguing with. That's not why I'm calling you out on your BS. It's because you are arrogant, chavanistic, and ignorant. You think you are so fucking wise.... but you are just another human, and have no idea how the universe works anymore than he does. Grow up.
@suicunesrider The people "arguing" with this video are arguing from an incredibly stupid position, sorry. Most of them are simply attacking the messenger(s) and sidestepping the message altogether, not unlike like what you did. You're the one getting personal; I'm rather cordial and polite, if a tad insulting/obnoxious. I am wise, I'm a fucking animal, yet my understand makes me concerned with the welfare of all sentient life on Earth, and not how the ignorant universe "works".
@suicunesrider 'You think you are so fucking wise.... but you are just another human, and have no idea how the universe works anymore than he does. Grow up.''
He knows that people needlessly suffer and die because of a process that was kick-started by blind and dumb physical forces. What other information do you think he needs to know about the universe in order to come to the conclusion that suffering sucks and should not be perpetuated by reproduction. Maybe we need to please the gods.
i disagree with that last comment >.<, it is as real as we make it. we don't need a goal to live on in this world yet just to find each of our own individual truths. possibilities are endless and that forms chaos yet mr fire seems to be satisfied with calling it all fake. Well i guess that's one way to get by. =)
this is certainly true atheism in the video at opinion, interesting thoughts =D
In this world, good is bad and bad is good, or maybe all is does not matter because end is death, there is no such winner in the planet. We are slaves. why people do not say NO to death, why people bring life for save, why people do not question these? Everything is fake, people cannot face the truth, such so sad if we see the truth...it is not hard to understand, but no one wants to face the truth.
I know it’s not politically correct these days but surely someone can do a genetic study of creationists, to see if there is some underlying defect. An offshoot of the autistic spectrum.
Are they a sub-species?
I take the piss by calling them Homo creationalensis but perhaps they really are some kind of throwback to an earlier time. Research is needed.
@Ohcacful Naturally, but don't forget the fairytale atheists in the comments whining and bitching about how shitty they think a perspective expressed in a YouTube video is (without doing anything to rationally argue against the worldview or in favour of theirs). Please quote anything that's a 'whine' or a 'bitch', that isn't just an honest description of the nature of things. Funny thing is, you guys are bitching like nature's not a problem at all... but my video... now that's a fucking problem.
@madeye0 Ever since man evolved logical thinking brains genetic evolution has been in a losing battle with ideological and social evolution. If it was the other way around as you would like to think the people that would be in charge of society wouldn't be the smartest or talented or cunning, but the people best able to beat you into unconsciousness through brute physical violence. As it stands most of these people are locked up in prison rather than running your life. Care to wonder why?
@madeye0 Well, there are only two ways (so far) that evolution CAN work. Either it's genetic evolution in which case you wouldn't be replying to me in front of your computer since you should be dead or a slave because some violent bruiser decided that he can take your food and beat you into submission with his fists so you become his slave OR it's ideological/social evolution in which case you are very much alive and able to exchange ideas with me by TYPING it over the internet. So which is it?
@madeye0 To argue with a "faithful" pessimist like Gary is a waste of time because human history has never been an unending horror of war, genocide and physical degeneracy and disease NOR has it been a perfect utopia without the necessity for rational insight and innovation in improving the human condition. Gary seems to have as much FAITH in the pessimistic outlook of unredeemable self-destruction for the human species rather than a more realistic view that evolution is continuous refinement.
@madeye0 Also, given the nature of evolution this means at some specific sentience level where we can recognize ourselves and recognize others in ourselves through the passage of time means an organism is REQUIRED to have that level of intelligence even before it is able to suffer or feel pain FOR itself and others (altruism). Killing a frog or mosquito has less consequence for the frog or mosquito than it does for delusional idiots who think these creatures possess the sentience to suffer.
@technatezin That's not the point. Point is that empathy, suffering and every other function of our psyche developed through evolution to empower us in the big game of life, it is utilitarian and we should approach it as such.
We are in a time where war is not the solution it has been for millennia. You go to war and the whole world is looking. So either the world is going to go to shit with the technology or its Going to be a golden age. Here's hoping
If you care enough about man to at least not want us to slide any further back to our animal nature and at least have some samurai self restraint and stoicism before we bow out as a species then there is purpose in at least trying to politically modify the wrongs of fellow humans to prevent a final shit storm coming sooner than it has to. This could be done by keeping nukes from the hands of fuck tard Christians. But, as I said, some measure of optimism is always required to mobilise and act.
That doesn't mean we have a purpose but maybe something like a biological imperative to at least try and justify ourselves to ourselves because we are the only rational known force in existence to satisfy to that end.
You said war was gonna be insidious. It was 100 years ago. It's gonna be insidious amongst the insidious but I know what you mean. The robots the U.S are working on. Fuck me. & have you checked out Metal Storm technology? Scary shit. I'm ashamed that another Aussie came up with it.
If things are so fucked up is there any point in trying to find out more? You talk about "the beginning" of this admittedly sloppy, violent, trial and error anomaly we call life but until we crack the secret of abiogenesis you and I don't even know what it is to talk about it. Is spouting nihilism gonna make anyone positively curious and upwardly mobile enough to find out?
I agree with Ameretat010 even if it took an infinite multiverse it seems that this universe was always gonna spit us out.
Sure, life has no meaning. But I dunno about the "accident" part , nor about the part where "no meteor to kill off dinosaurs => bug planet". I think it's worth considering that given the known laws of nature, life is pretty much inevitable. So it's not really an accident at all. Evolution is also inevitable. So if the meteor hadn't fallen, those "bugs" had surely continued evolving. Troodon and other raptors were supposed to be smart as hell - and would you look at those eyes and hands on them!
Once again, I choose to watch an entire video of opinions which qualifiy as anethema to the way I see things for myself, and all because of delivery. Every time he opens his mouth I start feeling like a Jew fascinated with the oration talent of Hitler.
I see things differently in so far as much that regardless of a perspectives validity, his mantra that his way is the one and only RIGHT way to see things strikes me as disturbingly.....Religious.
@HotaruZoku Godwin's law is your initial downfall. Furthermore, your mantra strikes me as disturbingly irrational. What's suggested in this video that you could HONESTLY ARGUE against? Nobody's claiming absolute knowledge, merely an aknowledgement that there is such a thing as horror, and such a thing as truth, and if you look at this insidious system from abiogenesis until now, the truth is, it's pretty fucking horrible. You're unwillingness to aknowlegde this planetary holocaust is religious.
@graytaich0 Could you point out where in anything I've typed I state or even -implied- I thought current events were rainbows and gum drops. I avoid cable news /because/ I'm too aware of said horror to keep gorging on it.
Your response dodged the point. The validity isn't relevant, even agreeing. He states that his way is the only way.
Implying someone is somehow living a broken joke of an existance thanks to the atrocity of not letting HIM do all the heavy thinking FOR them stands alone.
@HotaruZoku If you think this is heavy thinking you are wrong, this is basic stuff: [Life is a reproducing piece of DNA (serving no purpose), unintelligent design (waste engine), crude forces in control of sentients, the world could still be ruled by dinosaurs, history is pretty dismal...]. He never said his way is the only way, asshole, he's merely saying true things. If you agree why are you comparing him to hitler and spouting this nonsense? Why are you so irrational? What are you scared of?
@HotaruZoku If you don't accept these facts of life your existence is a joke, and you'll most likely fail at being a productive human being. People who do accept the truth will most likely do their best to live productively. What i fing truly disturbing is people who know the truth but start comparing people to hitler, religions, and cult members/leaders when presented with it. I'm sorry but I'm blocking you before you get even siller, and waste more of my time with your bullshit comments.
Honestly, we would like to be called intelligent. But, we're not even close. Intelligence has basis in actions, not in thought. This whole theory is based on the intelligent thing to do. I applaud the question. It's quite an undertaking with many presumptions. We are stupid animals. Is to admit this enough to ostracize ourselves from the earth? OK, let me have it....
@weareallanimals We aren't all going to agree on the truth, but it is out there, and we're not exactly lightyears away. The wishes and opinions of biased and addicted organisms are irrelevant. The fact that suffering will always be a core value of sentient life is no reason not to care, or to (help) perpetuate it. If your premise is that needless, unrelenting suffering (nature) is neither good or bad, then there's nothing to discuss here, to me, that's like saying nothing is truly good or bad.
OK, we are not intelligent enough to know what "true value" is as a whole (the human race). We cannot agree on it. So, we tend to judge value on an individual level. I agree with Gary with most of his observations. The problem I have is on the individual level. Here's the problem....If most peoples self-suffering is not justifiable in their own mind, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would take their own life? Yes, life is suffering, and suffering is life.
There is no intelligent design. There is only nature. It's neither good or bad (concepts). It is what it what it always was. There will always be suffering in life. You can't have one without the other. Is it your premise that most organisms wish, if they could, to have never been created?
So much waste, so much death, so much absolutely pointless suffering. Some design. That's why I'm not having kids. The suffering ends with me. Why would I want to bring another in this world for them only to get old and die like me? Why let another person, someone I would love go through this macabre pointless existence only to have THEM grow old, watch loved ones die and watch their body slowly waste away? For what? To let yet ANOTHER suffer after? No. It ends with me. Fuck you evolution.
@2eelShmeal "So much waste, so much death, so much absolutely pointless suffering."
And the reason why you have a brain to think rational thoughts are? Contrary to your beliefs human beings have been on an upward trajectory of improvement and refinement. Sure there is suffering, but any grand undertaking must take effort. The only thing in the world that is free is sun light.
"Fuck you evolution."
Nothing is more pointless and a waste of time then emotionally hating on a natural process.
Wooed into music, what you said was irrelevant, forgotten and you sir do tend to overtake in the dominance of speak, the speak of??? Human? What are you but a miscreant of votage directives again and again pre-compiled into a (rare)wasted tone. That knows not from where it came. Simply told it was spermal from handout educatives.
@nutsinthecoco I'm sorry you got that impression, you was gone for the longest time... but it's my fault really, I shoulda sent you a pm when I came back. It's nice to hear from you. :D
@DoctorSalt I watched The Wall days prior to making this, and it's not accidentally beautiful, I assure you. A common theme among dissenting voices has been "sure, there are trillions upon trllions of creatures suffering needlessly in perpetuity, but I enjoy watching them run around in YouTube videos so I'm pretty happy with it"... I dunno about you, but personally, even with a video as brilliant as this one, I couldn't weigh it's 'beauty' against just one seal used as a killer whale's chew toy.
@WiseMonkey888 How dare you dare me... I dare you to double-dog-dare me and then see what happens!
As far as I recall, your comment was some crap about 'smelling an agrument for free will' in regards to human action. You see, it's determined that good people will generally act & not walk the fuck away. It was also determined that your insecure psychology (not your free will) would compell you to remove your weak bullshit, and that I'd laugh at both of your pathetic little comments.
Surely the fact that 99.9% of all life that has existed is now extinct is the "mess"....
Serpent0fEden 1 week ago
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bce5150 4 days ago
All the amazingly intricate philosophy and empathy based morality Inmendham talks about falls completely flat in your "first person" interaction to life and antinatalism. I get it, you're not having kids... where does the rest of the planet that will have kids, and their kids' kids (and the animals, cosmic or Earthly) get salvation? If Inmendhams rhetoric is really honest, then just sitting back and waiting for the universe to end on it's own is... anticlimactic, dishonest.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
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@badblueman ''where do the rest of the people that will have kids, and their kids' kids (and the animals, cosmic or Earthly) get salvation?''
I've addressed the 'cosmic' issue already. Do you honestly know how desperate you sound when you start citing the POSSIBLE existence of extra terrestrial life elsewhere in the universe as an excuse for people to do whatever the hell they like here on Earth?
Those people are screwed but creating even more people who will also be screwed is JUST PLAIN DUMB!
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@badblueman ''If Inmendhams rhetoric is really honest, then just sitting back and waiting for the universe to end on it's own is... anticlimactic, dishonest.''
The universe appears to be heading for a heat death. You think a product of evolution can destroy the universe in the meantime? That seems a rather grandiose plan and a ridiculous rationalization for creating a child to play peek-a-boo with. Mankind's unfailing and unwarranted arrogance is yet another reason why mankind and DNA is fucked
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy No. I don't want children. I'm saying people want children. Unless you're a biotech. PhD working on a virus that will sterilise all (like in the movie Children of men-good movie), then you have no way to morally validate your philosophy. It's a self centred rationalization using a (imo) valid moral system (antinatalism). It's not about grandiose plans...it's about consistency in philosophy. If we don't have that, then all these vids are even more of a joke.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@badblueman ''Unless you're a biotech. PhD working on a virus that will sterilise all (like in the movie Children of men-good movie), then you have no way to morally validate your philosophy.''
I have no way of stopping all the rape, child abuse and torture that goes on in the world either but I still have a right to speak out against all these unethical acts also.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy Yes, great -speak out. But if all you do is speak, then in 50,000 years man will still be raping and having children. That's what I'm talking about with "plan"...antinatalism puts you into a situation where you can't really help anybody, all you can do is stay moral according to your own newfound values.
That's why I was talking about aliens. They may not be aliens, they can be future humans...meaning: they will still suffer and "we" didn't help by not having kids.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
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@badblueman ''But if all you do is speak, then in 50,000 years man will still be raping and having children.''
I'm supremely confident our species will be long gone if we go that far into the future.
''antinatalism puts you into a situation where you can't really help anybody''
Rubbish. If you don't have kids you have more time and energy to help others and you can always adopt.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@badblueman '..they can be future humans...meaning: they will still suffer and "we" didn't help by not having kids.''
If you are born you are guaranteed to suffer at some points and surely die. That is what you create when you have kids. You want to reduce suffering on Earth by creating MORE people who will needlessly suffer in the future? That's a treadmill process at best and egoism that you think the world is salvageable. Life is a suffering generating engine and you endorse it by breeding.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy No. I want to reduce suffering by redirecting effort away from a self centred "I'll have no kids; my antinatalism responsibility is fulfilled", to a more "suffering is the reason antinatalism exists; let's redirect humanity into a place where it's reduced or done away with".
I'm not saying you have to have kids. I'm saying that you not having kids does absolutely nothing for the kids that are being born to other people. These two are not exclusive.
badblueman 1 week ago
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@badblueman ''to a more "suffering is the reason antinatalism exists; let's redirect humanity into a place where it's reduced or done away with".''
What do you mean done away with? You mean no more suffering on Earth and everybody lives happily ever after, amen? Don't insult my intelligence. As for suffering: it ebbs and flows like a river. When extinction comes there will be a great deal of suffering and if you breed you are propelling other consciousnesses towards that event.
DerivedEnergy 1 week ago
@badblueman ''you not having kids does absolutely nothing for the kids that are being born to other people.''
If we lived in a saner world and mankind had reached a consensus that rendering the planet devoid of animal life and discontinuing our species was the most ethical route to take, then a good case could be made for VERY limited and controlled procreation in order to gracefully achieve these goals. However, that's NOT the world we live in so one should therefore act with humility and grace
DerivedEnergy 1 week ago
@DerivedEnergy Hence the reason people bring up transhumanism and the likes to the table when talking to antinatalists. You expressed a fatalistic attitude of humility and grace. The non antinatalists proposing tech. solutions can't see the rationality of brushing off the idea of finding an end to suffering through potential tech. solutions. What's with the black and white "Either everybody is smart and stops life... or all we can do is be humble while it goes on". I disagree.
badblueman 1 week ago
@badblueman ''Either everybody is smart and stops life... or all we can do is be humble while it goes on". I disagree.''
Life stops every time someone dies but rationalizing individuals such as yourself keep resuscitating the dead and trying to justify it all by schizophrenically talking about aliens in outer space and breathlessly talking about a time when suffering is completely done away with.
DerivedEnergy 1 week ago
@DerivedEnergy Wow... it is not me who keeps resuscitating the dead...it's you. That's what I've been saying all this time. You are the one who has this idyllic "everything will be fine when I die childless"...I say "It doesn't matter whether you die childless or not, your action against suffering is what matters". It's a universal fact that you'll not stop life. Therefore the morally antinatalistic way forward is a suffering reducing philosophy, not fatalism and depression.
badblueman 1 week ago
@badblueman Not, at all. I acknowledge that there will be great suffering ahead after I die but at least I can go to my grave knowing that I didn't personally create another disposable victim to be used up and spat out by DNA.
''It doesn't matter whether you die childless or not''
Arguably the most important decision one can ever make in their entire lives and it doesn't matter.
''It's a fact that you'll not stop life.''
All life leads to extinction. I'm not going to help keep it going.
DerivedEnergy 1 week ago
@badblueman ''not fatalism..''
Life leads to death and extinction. Life is nothing if not fatal.
''and depression''
Depression or insanity. I prefer depression thanks. That way I don't have to jabber on like a fool about how people have a moral obligation to have children so that they can save aliens that may or may not exist thousands or millions of light years away. And what about the billions of years after homo sapiens all die? Such thoughts cheer me up and help dissipate the depression ;)
DerivedEnergy 1 week ago
@DerivedEnergy That tells me that either you haven't the level of moral value of Inmendham, or that I was mistaken to draw on my knowledge of his videos when debating you. I'd like to point out that I didn't say you had any obligation to have children to "save aliens". You just like to strawman me. I said that you don't care enough to push sentient life in a direction where suffering may not exist.
Also there is a third option, besides depression or insanity, it's detachment.
badblueman 1 week ago
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@badblueman You said: ''YOU'RE going to STOP PROCREATION ON EARTH and THEN WHAT?'' You also said: ''where do the people that will have kids, and their kids' kids (and the animals, COSMIC or Earthly) get salvation?''
Then you said: ''I'd like to point out that I didn't say you had any obligation to have children to "save aliens".
''push sentient life in a direction where suffering may not exist''
Yeah, right.
''depression, insanity, detachment.''
That's why life + intelligence don't mix
DerivedEnergy 1 week ago
@badblueman ''What's with the black and white "Either everybody is smart and stops life... or all we can do is be humble while it goes on". I disagree.''
There's no finishing line other than the extinction of our species. Being 'humble' involves recognizing that you are simply a dying animal and that your DNA doesn't contain magical qualities that need to be passed on so humanity can save aliens trillions of miles away or to work towards creating anything even remotely resembling a 'utopia'.
DerivedEnergy 1 week ago
@DerivedEnergy You here and Gary in general both validate what I say about reality, but then cocoon in some self-defensive depression. So what if DNA is fucked up... either kill yourself, do something, or tell us whining is what you're doing. You have a convincing show, but nothing except "I'll have no kids (*)" when challenged on a plan.
(*)I guess this is the problem. How to be objective and work for a solution in a philosophy based on subjective moral self-gratification.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@badblueman ''but then cocoon in some self-defensive depression.''
Remaining childfree is not placing yourself in a 'cocoon'. It's simply not breeding. As for depression, I've never needed any medication or counselling. I just happen to be a sensitive, perceptive and intellectually inquisitive person.
''either kill yourself''
Have a quick snack. Then take out the trash. Then kill myself. Screw my family. Got it.
''do something''
I am doing something. I'm holding up a mirror to humanity.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy I meant "kill yourself" in a philosophical debate kind of way. I would be happy and having raunchy sex if I was normal...there is a reason I'm philosophising and watching Inmendham vides, and it's not because I'm happy.
Good. I'm not somebody to tell/judge what to do. Hold a mirror if you must. I'm looking further. Where I do not know. The idea that all I can do is hold mirrors is more depressing than the idea of killing myself. I'm looking for actual solutions.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy That was also my point about the moral self-gratification. Can one not be conscious of the futility of conscious life in the universe and not be depressed at the same time? There seems to be an inherent martyrdom to antinatalists. It's like some poetic greek myth "badbluman was punished by the gods to suffer holding the mirror...forever". For all the determinism one seems to muster as an antinatalist, surely transhumanism, "fuck it buddhism" etc. can't hurt?
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@badblueman There's a lot to 'whine' about. 200,000 years of homo sapiens suffering and dying because of a stupid DNA molecule with no obvious end in sight to this madness. It's very childish to believe in fictitious gods, angels, free will, a fixed, unitary self and inevitable and unilateral moral progress but belifef in those notions currently seems to be very adult-like behaviour, even in 2012AD. The facts of the human condition are often brutal and need sweetening with childish fantasies.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@badblueman ''You have a convincing show, but nothing except "I'll have no kids (*)" when challenged on a plan.''
Try to be a nice person, offer to help others when you can and try not to engage in activities that cause suffering (both to one's own species and to those that belong to othersr. If you have the time, money, energy and enthusiasm to raise children then consider adoption - literally millions of kids need a good home.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy That is the obvious answer for anybody with empathy and reason, or empathy based moral value...I was talking about a "plan" in the philosophical sense, a sense of developing a healthier relationship to the universe. Why you (antinatalism in general) still force yourself into a depressive state of "I can't beat the universe therefore it all sucks". This is what I don't get. Or it could be just my perception, that's also possible. For all I know you're all jolly...
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@badblueman ''How to be objective and work for a solution in a philosophy based on subjective moral self-gratification.''
It's an objective fact that deprivation and suffering cannot occur in the absence of sentience - ergo everyone is unnecessarily harmed by coming into existence. I have every right to express my dissatisfaction at this depressing state of affairs. So far all I've pretty much got from you are ad hominim attacks; talk of aliens; and invitations to kill myself. Very mature.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy a) there was no ad homenim; saying "you're wrong because you're X" is not what I even considered doing... b) invitations to kill yourself? There was no invitation to suicide, what is it with your paranoia; I explained the reason for bringing up suicide and it wasn't all about you. Sorry, but my philosophy doesn't revolve around your life, your suicide or lack thereof...c) My maturity levels are apparently a function of your emotional perception of events.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
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@badblueman ''SO WHAT IF DNA IS FUCKED UP... either KILL YOURSELF, do something, or tell us WHINING is what you're doing.''
THERE WAS NO INVITATION TO SUICIDE, what is it with YOUR PARANOIA''
''I MEANT "kill yourself" in a philosophical kind of way.''
''let's redirect humanity into a place where [SUFFERING] IS..DONE AWAY WITH
''That's WHY I WAS TALKING ABOUT ALIENS. THEY MAY NOT BE ALIENS...
''I simply FIND [AN] UNPRODUCTIVE'' yet you advocate a spiritual ''I DON'T GIVE A SHIT experience''
DerivedEnergy 1 week ago
Transhumanism might save all the creatures on Earth, but we can't save the universe. With sextillions of stars, billions of years, it's a lost cause.
The difference between a Buddha and Gary is that Gary can't let go. Buddha sat under a tree and realized that he can't do anything about reality, that it's hopeless, which gave him enlightenment, i.e. a spiritual "fuck this, I don't give a shit" experience. So Gary is a sort of self imposed martyr for morality in a moral-less world.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@badblueman ''but we can't save the universe. With sextillions of stars, billions of years, it's a lost cause.''
What? If you don't feel comfortable with the notion of creating sentient beings who will needlessly suffer and die then don't procreate.
''Buddha sat under a tree and realized that he can't do anything about reality, that it's hopeless, which gave him enlightenment, i.e. a spiritual "fuck this, I don't give a shit" experience.''
You can decide not to have kids.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy You misunderstand. You have this Abrahamic notion of a one time "soul", a "me" who lives and then disappears forever.
The antinatalists have a right to judge the process by which they were produced. Human consciousness isn't a thing, it's an event and there will be more "Gary events" in the future or on other planets. Antinatalism isn't some ideological fad, it's an attempt to solve a horrifying existential problem central to reality. It will fail, hence Buddhism.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@badblueman ''or on other planets.''
A possibility to be sure but so what? The nearest star system is 25 trillion miles (4.25 light years) away and I find it EXTREMELY likely that mankind will implode before inter-stella travel is possible. IF our descendants DID go on a 'save the aliens jaunt' can you begin to imagine the amount of sentient beings that might be created? I find rape unacceptable as well as procreation. Should I not speak out against rape because it MIGHT happen on OTHER PLANETS?
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy I didn't know you were an antinatalist. I still don't get what you're trying to say though. It seems as if all you're concentrating on is human procreation, not the whole Inmendham philosophy. Yes you should speak out, it's what makes us human and what our intellect is here for. But what next?
You're going to stop procreation on Earth and then what? You're going to let your celestial cousins suffer? What did you accomplish? These are for you to answer to yourself.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@badblueman ''I didn't know you were an antinatalist.''
270 Youtube videos and counting.
''You're going to stop procreation on Earth and then what?''
I doubt it. A few averted births here and there is more realistic.
''You're going to let your celestial cousins suffer?''
You advocate that I create children so that mankind can go on 'save the alien' missions in the future? I wasn't aware that this constitutes one of the reasons why parents decide to bear children. I must have missed that meeting.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@badblueman RE: celestial cousins''
i) No certain knowledge that we are not alone in the universe - it could well be a wild goose chase.
ii) Fermi's paradox reinforces the point above. If there is other life out there it's spectacularly rare - like looking for a needle in a haystack..
iii) Inter-stella travel may well be a step too far for us before we implode as a species. In fact, I would argue that we're never going to leave our solar system.
iv) Using new beings as sacrificial pawns.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@badblueman '' let your celestial cousins suffer?''
v) If life from Earth branches out into the universe then an unimaginably large number of suffering sentient beings could be created in the process of us preventing our 'celestial cousins' from suffering.
vi) There's no indication that preventing suffering would be a priority for mankind If despite all these objections you still feel we have a moral obligation to create future humans to 'patrol the universe' then:
You are just rationalizing.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy I don't understand what's your prime directive. Gary always goes on about animals suffering, humans suffering...how we're all slaves to DNA.
Do I understand correctly that the only problem you're concentrated on is the problem of human purposelessness in the universe?
I really don't understand why humans are on such a pedestal. Why antinatalism, why not anti-life then? All life. I'm not suggesting anything now, I just want to know what's the point of antinatalism?
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy What I've heard from Inmendham, made me think that his antinatalism has a deep philosophical basis, generally centred around an existential angst of sorts related to being a puny little thing in an evil universe. I see it as a valid standalone perception... but in what way does killing off the human population through attrition of births fix any of that? What's perplexing is that he talks about the aliens, the emergent nature of consciousness himself. I see it as a non sequitur.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
@badblueman ''in what way does killing off the human population through attrition of births fix any of that?''
I never said anything about killing anyone. To breed or not to breed: that is the question If you don't breed then you can look yourself in the mirror and know that you didn't take it upon yourself to create someone who will needlessly suffer and die. If you don't think that's worth anything then you're not cut out to be a AN
''I see it as a non sequitur.''
I don't. Hence my objections.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
@DerivedEnergy Need is in the perceiver. look at those anti-Inmendhams. They all like to talk about suffering and how it gives them purpose and bla bla bla.
I agree, I don't want to make people who will suffer...but what if he's one of the "I can take it; I like life" people? I'm not saying that we have to let the non-existent have a chance...I'm saying that antinatalist philosophy you have is more of a fulfilment of your own moral standpoint... I simply find it unproductive.
badblueman 2 weeks ago
What does the maker of this video think about transhumanism. Replacing mindless natural selection with guided evolution, so humans take their existence into their own hands using advanced technology.
RestInPieces777 2 weeks ago
This narrator sounds like a religious person when they point out how little chance there was of this happening, yet it happened anyway. Then they sound like an atheist at other times. (and like an angry teenager at other times.)
Honestly, I was expecting some interesting, reasonable, intelligent, logical, critical-thinking speech. But all we got from this video is a guy who sounds like some emo kid, laying on his bed, staring at the ceiling, arguing with himself about life.
suicunesrider 2 weeks ago
@suicunesrider Interesting, "sounds like a religious person" sounds like you've got no argument, he's just talking about the [im]probability, Dawkins talks about this too, only he preaches that we daren't call life monotonous, go tell him he sounds religious: watch?v=kGGmuUvA2Mg. You sound like a religious person when you imply that [intelligent] life wasn't a bizarre chance occurance, but rather meant to be. I was expecting an intelligent, logical comment, nah, I honestly wasn't.
graytaich0 2 weeks ago 8
All I can think of while watching this is that the background music was used for the "Ponies: The Anthology" spoof.
suicunesrider 2 weeks ago
@2:13 i'm still astonished of how quick the cheetah responds to the gazelle's meneuvering. virtually instant. like schools of fish changing direction together when under attack. humans can't even come close to that kind of reflex.
cydonianman 2 weeks ago
Im sorry teenagers and middle-aged people of the world but no amount of Nike shoes, Plasma TV's, Ikea furniture or building immese track of new housing, is in any way going to help us deal with the issues were facing in the future. Your priorities are fucked.
If you think of the issues in the world today because of 7 Billion people then compare that to 10 Billion or 12 Billion. How would you feed and educate and employ all these people, all these needs?
SirGunishment 3 weeks ago
In several occasions, you said "I'm obviously doing the Internet wrong". Well, this is how you do it right! Great video, Gary.
Hack3r91 4 weeks ago
atheists are soooo annoying on the internet. go eat sum cheese wine or sumting
booboowilson10101 1 month ago
@booboowilson10101 but shit talkers like you aren't annoying, right?
graytaich0 1 month ago 3
@graytaich0 pretty much dood
booboowilson10101 1 month ago
@booboowilson10101 both atheists and religious people have the ability to be ignorant and, of coarse, annoying. Though both can be very smart, too.
suicunesrider 2 weeks ago
I remember a while back in Stickam saying you could not trump this video now look at the views…
NeuroticGrunt77 1 month ago
Hmm aside from some issues I have with this movie I should add that this idea of the carbon cycle is a simple model that does not account for the fact that the earth has been sequestering an ever increasing percentage of atmospheric carbon into rocks. There is no law that says it can't sequester so much carbon that life takes a huge hit. During the last ice age the amount of CO2 was about 180 ppm. Plant life ends at about 150 ppm. Scary stuff.
EasyEs 3 months ago
@EasyEs
what are your issues
GohanMH1 2 months ago
your video need's a hell of a lot more views
cancerbotX 3 months ago in playlist cancerbotX's favorites
Welcome to nihilism, fuck face.
Antiks72 4 months ago
@Antiks72 Nihlists don't concern themselves with the suffering of others, or the state of the world. Welcome to my blocked list, fuckface.
graytaich0 4 months ago 34
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GohanMH1 3 months ago
@Antiks72 Right on!! "I praise, I do not reproach, nihilism's arrival. I believe it is one of the greatest crises, a moment of the deepest self-reflection of humanity. Whether man recovers from it, whether he becomes master of this crisis, is a question of his strength!" - [Friedrich Nietzsche]
AnarchistSaint 1 month ago
WOW!!!!!!!!!.
im10pplok 4 months ago
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@theticketybooboo No. Not peachy. Of course things can get better. Things can always get better. But that doesn't make what i said any less true.
You obviously missed the whole point of my comment
Wittgensteinism 4 months ago
De facto, you're wrong about human history.
Violence has decreased with time, according to any measured timescale you wish to use for human history.
We are currently living in the most peaceful time in all of human history.
Wittgensteinism 5 months ago
@Wittgensteinism That's only if you measure it in per capita terms. But from a negative-utilitarian perspective, per capita violence is irrelevant. What matters is the gross magnitude of violence and resultant suffering. And I'd say the 20th century was probably the worst in human history from that perspective, despite the fact that the explosion in population allows a smaller percentage of the pubic to fight the wars and commit the genocide.
qrqrqrqr1 1 month ago
@Wittgensteinism
I hope you are right. However, since fossil fuels, minerals, soil and fresh water are becoming scarce and human population is growing exponentially, a possible spike in suffering might be coming.
GohanMH1 1 month ago 6
@Wittgensteinism You're absolutely right about violence between humans directly decreasing, however, I would argue the capitalist model, simply exports and disguises violence.
With capitalism instead of killing humans en masse, we simply force humans into slavery, on a hierarchy based on random conditions, such as being in a third world country, or being in a first world country but with parents that don't give fundamental survival skills for this society (as insidious as they may be).
Seedr0 2 weeks ago
@Seedr0 The amount of violence people suffer has increased a lot since days of old, sir; only in terms of percentage has it decreased, and percentage is a lousy way to do comparisons with past human behaviour, especially now that we're in a population of 7 billion (and should be way more advanced/civilized by now, which we would be if everyone wasn't so caught up with their own agenda). And yes, there's certainly some violence that's never reported, and that nobody ever finds out about.
graytaich0 2 weeks ago
@graytaich0 ''The amount of violence people suffer has increased a lot since days of old, sir; only in terms of percentage has it decreased''
And the level of violence throughout history is not stable. It oscillates.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
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@graytaich0 ''The amount of violence people suffer has increased a lot since days of old, sir; only in terms of percentage has it decreased''
And the level of violence throughout history is not stable. It oscillates.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
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@graytaich0 'The amount of violence people suffer has increased a lot since days of old, sir; only in terms of percentage has it decreased''
And the level of violence throughout history is not stable. It oscillates.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
holy fuckstick, 14 thousand views!
ImDed2 5 months ago
@ImDed2 holy fuckstick indeed, ded guy. xD
graytaich0 5 months ago
@theticketybooboo 'Nice try'
Thank you! ;) The disbelief in a deity, versus basically striving to eliminate life are not the same thing. So don't try to tell me they are.
They have absolutely no bearing on the other.
Only real atheists like reading Nietzsche. <--- Nudge Nudge ;)
L00NGB00W 5 months ago
@theticketybooboo Intimidated by what?
In a bunch of fucking atheists playing emo? Since there absolutely no point, kill your self.
6hitk0 5 months ago
@6hitk0 You're intimidated by the facts of life, she said it quite clearly, and your reluctance to adress anything rationally is a clear indicator of this. There's no point in perpetuating life and mindlessly imposing it on others until its inevitable extinction, but it should be obvious (even to the most idiotic of people), that we think there is a point to spreading understanding and reducing suffering. Kill one's self? Morons like you always have to make it personal, why is that, I wonder...
graytaich0 5 months ago
@theticketybooboo
I am *not* claiming that the world is "nice" in any objective way. My view is that the hedonistic premise (that suffering *ought* to be stopped) is incorrect. It is not a "natural observation" and there is no way it can be demonstrated objectively.
Ohcacful 5 months ago
@Ohcacful "the hedonistic premise (that suffering *ought* to be stopped) is incorrect"
Hedonistic? If you need the notion that suffering is bad (and shouldn't be perpetuated) to be demonstrated objectively before you accept it, then why don't you apply that same criteria to perpetuating life? It's a natural observation that a sentient creature's top priority is avoiding suffering, if you're honest you'll agree that this is the truth. Answer this... slavery: is it, good, bad, or subjective?
graytaich0 5 months ago
@graytaich0
No, the hedonistic premise has nothing to do with the fact that a sentient creature's top priority is to avoid suffering. The fact that suffering is avoided does not mean it *ought* to be. Slavery is *subjective*, even if I *feel* that it is repulsive. By the way, I never claimed that perpetuating life was *objectively good* either, only that it wasn't *objectively bad*. I *think* that's what you meant by "applying the same criteria to perpetuating life", but correct me if not.
Ohcacful 5 months ago
@Ohcacful Slavery is subjectively wrong, okay, that's all I needed to hear, it's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't think that rationality, logic, and reason are on your side on it, because they honestly aren't. I wasn't implying that you thought it 'good', but unless you're a nihilist, you should want it to be demonstrated as one way or the other. You obviously think all ethics are subjective there's no discussion (about ethics or the truth of sentient life) to be had here.
graytaich0 5 months ago
@Ohcacful I think it's funny how you think that slavery is only subjectively wrong because we FEEL it is, and not because we UNDERSTAND that imposing suffering on others isn't right, then you argue like your opinion about suffering not mattering is objectively correct (most likely because you read it in a silly book one time). If something as obvious and fundamental as suffering is only subjectively a bad thing, and presumably unimportant, why should anything, namely your opinion be important?
graytaich0 5 months ago
The notion that 'real' atheists have to embrace this depressing worldview is nonsensical, dishonest, And doesn't help your cause.
"The world could still be dominated by dinosaurs."
And why would that be wrong exactly? Dinosaurs are cool. And what's to say that they wouldn't have become intelligent given enough time to evolve?
Nice production though.
L00NGB00W 5 months ago
@L00NGB00W This 'depressing worldview' is merely an honest description of life that cannot be debunked with the word cool. I love how the main contention with this video is usually along the lines of: "How dare someone suggest that atheists who worship the notion of life and evolution (because they personally find it cool) aren't really atheists!"... this is such a lame complaint for someone who finds no problem with two billion years (or more) of suffering (to produce cool dinosaurs) to leave.
graytaich0 5 months ago
@graytaich0 "worship". ^_^ Pardon?
I merely accept them as facts. Life is astounding! To think that all these complex machines could arise from an uncaring universe? That empathy could originate from random mindless interactions?! Incredible! I think it's rather narrow minded to focus only on pain when there is so much more. And rather than try to fix the problems life might experience, Antinatalism's solution is to simply 'give up' so to speak. I find that lame. Just my opinion mind you.
L00NGB00W 5 months ago
@L00NGB00W Yes, it is just your opinion. The facts of life are: it's is a crude, ignorant, unintelligent DNA competition, nothing but an agenda of a consuming and reproducing DNA molecule. You're free to jump into the cesspool headfirst if you want to, you can attempt to delude yourself into believing that it's 'astounding' (watch?v=_-agl0pOQfs), and that you're accomplishing something (re: "giving up"), but the fact is that nobody has a right to impose this shithole (and suffering) on OTHERS.
graytaich0 5 months ago
@L00NGB00W Well the suffering really outweighs all that bullshit, pretty stars, beatious flowers..etc That is nothing in comparison.
DeludedAlbatross 4 months ago
@L00NGB00W You are a very smart individual. Don't listen to those jackasses who don't have any respect for your opinions. Your beliefs should be respected just as much as their's.
suicunesrider 2 weeks ago
@L00NGB00W The fact that you believe_sentient life itself_is 'cool' has no bearing on the reality of what it's been doing for two billion years. The fact that you find the suffering endured so far (and the suffering that will be endured in the future) acceptable, or unworthy of discussion, just goes to show how fanatical you are about your beliefs. Fact is, you're very lucky in the respect that you're reasonably safe, privileged, comfortable, and that your life isn't unbearable (at this moment).
graytaich0 5 months ago
@graytaich0
Life has been suffering for (ahem) approx 3.8 billion years. Accepted.
I accept the suffering of the past, because it happened. But much has arisen from this suffering. We've moved from monocellular life to empathic caring humans. And acquired wisdom.
You must agree, that we've only been thinking clearly for the past 200k years or so. A tiny fraction time. In the past 300 years, we've accomplished the most. Imagine 3.5 billion years of wisdom. Will we suffer as much then?
L00NGB00W 5 months ago
@graytaich0 "Fact is, you're very lucky [...]"
That is basically the line of thought I'm headed for. I'm quite fortunate to live in the era and location I do. But it has little to do with luck, and more to do with the results of our endeavours.
We stand on the shoulders of giants (whom suffered). To give up now would be to ignore all of that. To throw it all in the wastebin. And to let this mindless universe start all over again from scratch. Ready to suffer anew.
L00NGB00W 5 months ago
@L00NGB00W Dude, I'm blocking you before you spout more nonsense. Try saying this crap in a video and see how silly you sound.
graytaich0 5 months ago
@L00NGB00W "I'm quite fortunate to live in the era and location I do. But it has little to do with luck, and more to do with the results of our endeavours."
I don't have the inclination, or the patience to correct insane jibber jabber like this..
graytaich0 5 months ago
@graytaich0 you're just another example of a person who has NO RESPECT for other human beings. You think you are so "wise," and everyone whos opinion is different from your's is stupid. I don't neccessarily agree with the person you are arguing with. That's not why I'm calling you out on your BS. It's because you are arrogant, chavanistic, and ignorant. You think you are so fucking wise.... but you are just another human, and have no idea how the universe works anymore than he does. Grow up.
suicunesrider 2 weeks ago
@suicunesrider The people "arguing" with this video are arguing from an incredibly stupid position, sorry. Most of them are simply attacking the messenger(s) and sidestepping the message altogether, not unlike like what you did. You're the one getting personal; I'm rather cordial and polite, if a tad insulting/obnoxious. I am wise, I'm a fucking animal, yet my understand makes me concerned with the welfare of all sentient life on Earth, and not how the ignorant universe "works".
graytaich0 2 weeks ago
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@suicunesrider 'You think you are so fucking wise.... but you are just another human, and have no idea how the universe works anymore than he does. Grow up.''
He knows that people needlessly suffer and die because of a process that was kick-started by blind and dumb physical forces. What other information do you think he needs to know about the universe in order to come to the conclusion that suffering sucks and should not be perpetuated by reproduction. Maybe we need to please the gods.
DerivedEnergy 2 weeks ago
Fucking depressing.
MikeRat77 5 months ago
@MikeRat77 Indeed.
graytaich0 5 months ago
All I hear is nonsense and rubbish.
tehNILE 5 months ago
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tehNILE 5 months ago
SUBSCRIBED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
yuriythebest 5 months ago
diarrhea of the mouth, is all I have to say.
6hitk0 5 months ago
@6hitk0 @tehNILE Thank you both for your insightful commentary.
graytaich0 5 months ago
Recurrent laryngeal nerve in the giraffe, the retard certainly didn't do that right.
Pokarot 5 months ago
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ral1334 5 months ago
i disagree with that last comment >.<, it is as real as we make it. we don't need a goal to live on in this world yet just to find each of our own individual truths. possibilities are endless and that forms chaos yet mr fire seems to be satisfied with calling it all fake. Well i guess that's one way to get by. =)
this is certainly true atheism in the video at opinion, interesting thoughts =D
to much sorrow is bad
to much joy is bad
WateryIce54321 5 months ago
In this world, good is bad and bad is good, or maybe all is does not matter because end is death, there is no such winner in the planet. We are slaves. why people do not say NO to death, why people bring life for save, why people do not question these? Everything is fake, people cannot face the truth, such so sad if we see the truth...it is not hard to understand, but no one wants to face the truth.
fireflytree 5 months ago
I know it’s not politically correct these days but surely someone can do a genetic study of creationists, to see if there is some underlying defect. An offshoot of the autistic spectrum.
Are they a sub-species?
I take the piss by calling them Homo creationalensis but perhaps they really are some kind of throwback to an earlier time. Research is needed.
SissingPyd 5 months ago
So wait what's this about?
TheCarydal 6 months ago in playlist TheCarydal's Favorited Videos
@TheCarydal
It's a bunch of "real atheists" whining and bitching about how shitty they think everything is.
Ohcacful 5 months ago
@Ohcacful Naturally, but don't forget the fairytale atheists in the comments whining and bitching about how shitty they think a perspective expressed in a YouTube video is (without doing anything to rationally argue against the worldview or in favour of theirs). Please quote anything that's a 'whine' or a 'bitch', that isn't just an honest description of the nature of things. Funny thing is, you guys are bitching like nature's not a problem at all... but my video... now that's a fucking problem.
graytaich0 5 months ago
Ironically, I find nihilism to be the most idealistic viewpoint of them all.
madeye0 6 months ago
@madeye0 The other irony is that nihilism and antinatalism will be, most likely, wiped out by evolutionary processes.
madeye0 6 months ago
@madeye0 Ever since man evolved logical thinking brains genetic evolution has been in a losing battle with ideological and social evolution. If it was the other way around as you would like to think the people that would be in charge of society wouldn't be the smartest or talented or cunning, but the people best able to beat you into unconsciousness through brute physical violence. As it stands most of these people are locked up in prison rather than running your life. Care to wonder why?
technatezin 6 months ago
@technatezin I wasn't talking about genetic evolution.
madeye0 6 months ago
@madeye0 Well, there are only two ways (so far) that evolution CAN work. Either it's genetic evolution in which case you wouldn't be replying to me in front of your computer since you should be dead or a slave because some violent bruiser decided that he can take your food and beat you into submission with his fists so you become his slave OR it's ideological/social evolution in which case you are very much alive and able to exchange ideas with me by TYPING it over the internet. So which is it?
technatezin 6 months ago
@madeye0 To argue with a "faithful" pessimist like Gary is a waste of time because human history has never been an unending horror of war, genocide and physical degeneracy and disease NOR has it been a perfect utopia without the necessity for rational insight and innovation in improving the human condition. Gary seems to have as much FAITH in the pessimistic outlook of unredeemable self-destruction for the human species rather than a more realistic view that evolution is continuous refinement.
technatezin 6 months ago
@madeye0 Also, given the nature of evolution this means at some specific sentience level where we can recognize ourselves and recognize others in ourselves through the passage of time means an organism is REQUIRED to have that level of intelligence even before it is able to suffer or feel pain FOR itself and others (altruism). Killing a frog or mosquito has less consequence for the frog or mosquito than it does for delusional idiots who think these creatures possess the sentience to suffer.
technatezin 6 months ago
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madeye0 6 months ago
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madeye0 6 months ago
@technatezin That's not the point. Point is that empathy, suffering and every other function of our psyche developed through evolution to empower us in the big game of life, it is utilitarian and we should approach it as such.
madeye0 6 months ago
The man preaches...great music and editing too! faved!
ladyofire 6 months ago
i agree pessimism a the ration view
wtf do think are atheists try to accomplish?
to point out the obvious well it that all your videos do
human453 6 months ago
We are in a time where war is not the solution it has been for millennia. You go to war and the whole world is looking. So either the world is going to go to shit with the technology or its Going to be a golden age. Here's hoping
angrywhenroused 6 months ago
If you care enough about man to at least not want us to slide any further back to our animal nature and at least have some samurai self restraint and stoicism before we bow out as a species then there is purpose in at least trying to politically modify the wrongs of fellow humans to prevent a final shit storm coming sooner than it has to. This could be done by keeping nukes from the hands of fuck tard Christians. But, as I said, some measure of optimism is always required to mobilise and act.
TheNarcMan 6 months ago
That doesn't mean we have a purpose but maybe something like a biological imperative to at least try and justify ourselves to ourselves because we are the only rational known force in existence to satisfy to that end.
You said war was gonna be insidious. It was 100 years ago. It's gonna be insidious amongst the insidious but I know what you mean. The robots the U.S are working on. Fuck me. & have you checked out Metal Storm technology? Scary shit. I'm ashamed that another Aussie came up with it.
TheNarcMan 6 months ago
If things are so fucked up is there any point in trying to find out more? You talk about "the beginning" of this admittedly sloppy, violent, trial and error anomaly we call life but until we crack the secret of abiogenesis you and I don't even know what it is to talk about it. Is spouting nihilism gonna make anyone positively curious and upwardly mobile enough to find out?
I agree with Ameretat010 even if it took an infinite multiverse it seems that this universe was always gonna spit us out.
TheNarcMan 6 months ago
@TheNarcMan
"Is spouting nihilism gonna make anyone positively curious and upwardly mobile enough to find out?"
sure
GohanMH1 6 months ago
I think I'm gonna just leave this on the front of my channel from now on...
ThedogDio 6 months ago
this video has a potential to go viral
GohanMH1 6 months ago 34
Sure, life has no meaning. But I dunno about the "accident" part , nor about the part where "no meteor to kill off dinosaurs => bug planet". I think it's worth considering that given the known laws of nature, life is pretty much inevitable. So it's not really an accident at all. Evolution is also inevitable. So if the meteor hadn't fallen, those "bugs" had surely continued evolving. Troodon and other raptors were supposed to be smart as hell - and would you look at those eyes and hands on them!
Ameretat010 7 months ago
wow, this vid did really well!! congrats and well done gray!
SkidRowRadio 7 months ago 9
@SkidRowRadio Thanks, ooj. I'm proud of this, so it means a lot. : )
graytaich0 7 months ago
Once again, I choose to watch an entire video of opinions which qualifiy as anethema to the way I see things for myself, and all because of delivery. Every time he opens his mouth I start feeling like a Jew fascinated with the oration talent of Hitler.
I see things differently in so far as much that regardless of a perspectives validity, his mantra that his way is the one and only RIGHT way to see things strikes me as disturbingly.....Religious.
HotaruZoku 7 months ago
@HotaruZoku idiot.
boobootoob 7 months ago
@HotaruZoku Godwin's law is your initial downfall. Furthermore, your mantra strikes me as disturbingly irrational. What's suggested in this video that you could HONESTLY ARGUE against? Nobody's claiming absolute knowledge, merely an aknowledgement that there is such a thing as horror, and such a thing as truth, and if you look at this insidious system from abiogenesis until now, the truth is, it's pretty fucking horrible. You're unwillingness to aknowlegde this planetary holocaust is religious.
graytaich0 7 months ago
@graytaich0 Could you point out where in anything I've typed I state or even -implied- I thought current events were rainbows and gum drops. I avoid cable news /because/ I'm too aware of said horror to keep gorging on it.
Your response dodged the point. The validity isn't relevant, even agreeing. He states that his way is the only way.
Implying someone is somehow living a broken joke of an existance thanks to the atrocity of not letting HIM do all the heavy thinking FOR them stands alone.
HotaruZoku 7 months ago
@HotaruZoku If you think this is heavy thinking you are wrong, this is basic stuff: [Life is a reproducing piece of DNA (serving no purpose), unintelligent design (waste engine), crude forces in control of sentients, the world could still be ruled by dinosaurs, history is pretty dismal...]. He never said his way is the only way, asshole, he's merely saying true things. If you agree why are you comparing him to hitler and spouting this nonsense? Why are you so irrational? What are you scared of?
graytaich0 7 months ago
@HotaruZoku If you don't accept these facts of life your existence is a joke, and you'll most likely fail at being a productive human being. People who do accept the truth will most likely do their best to live productively. What i fing truly disturbing is people who know the truth but start comparing people to hitler, religions, and cult members/leaders when presented with it. I'm sorry but I'm blocking you before you get even siller, and waste more of my time with your bullshit comments.
graytaich0 7 months ago
Honestly, we would like to be called intelligent. But, we're not even close. Intelligence has basis in actions, not in thought. This whole theory is based on the intelligent thing to do. I applaud the question. It's quite an undertaking with many presumptions. We are stupid animals. Is to admit this enough to ostracize ourselves from the earth? OK, let me have it....
weareallanimals 7 months ago
@weareallanimals We aren't all going to agree on the truth, but it is out there, and we're not exactly lightyears away. The wishes and opinions of biased and addicted organisms are irrelevant. The fact that suffering will always be a core value of sentient life is no reason not to care, or to (help) perpetuate it. If your premise is that needless, unrelenting suffering (nature) is neither good or bad, then there's nothing to discuss here, to me, that's like saying nothing is truly good or bad.
graytaich0 7 months ago
OK, we are not intelligent enough to know what "true value" is as a whole (the human race). We cannot agree on it. So, we tend to judge value on an individual level. I agree with Gary with most of his observations. The problem I have is on the individual level. Here's the problem....If most peoples self-suffering is not justifiable in their own mind, wouldn't it stand to reason that they would take their own life? Yes, life is suffering, and suffering is life.
weareallanimals 7 months ago
It is, what it always was. (apologies)
weareallanimals 7 months ago
There is no intelligent design. There is only nature. It's neither good or bad (concepts). It is what it what it always was. There will always be suffering in life. You can't have one without the other. Is it your premise that most organisms wish, if they could, to have never been created?
weareallanimals 7 months ago
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0RobinHood1 7 months ago
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0RobinHood1 7 months ago
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0RobinHood1 7 months ago
So much waste, so much death, so much absolutely pointless suffering. Some design. That's why I'm not having kids. The suffering ends with me. Why would I want to bring another in this world for them only to get old and die like me? Why let another person, someone I would love go through this macabre pointless existence only to have THEM grow old, watch loved ones die and watch their body slowly waste away? For what? To let yet ANOTHER suffer after? No. It ends with me. Fuck you evolution.
2eelShmeal 7 months ago
@2eelShmeal "So much waste, so much death, so much absolutely pointless suffering."
And the reason why you have a brain to think rational thoughts are? Contrary to your beliefs human beings have been on an upward trajectory of improvement and refinement. Sure there is suffering, but any grand undertaking must take effort. The only thing in the world that is free is sun light.
"Fuck you evolution."
Nothing is more pointless and a waste of time then emotionally hating on a natural process.
technatezin 6 months ago
@technatezin Nothing is more pointless and a waste of time than to take YT comments seriously.
2eelShmeal 6 months ago
Wooed into music, what you said was irrelevant, forgotten and you sir do tend to overtake in the dominance of speak, the speak of??? Human? What are you but a miscreant of votage directives again and again pre-compiled into a (rare)wasted tone. That knows not from where it came. Simply told it was spermal from handout educatives.
The sand rebels us back into dust.
zayvra 7 months ago
@zayvra Wow that is one of the most incoherent messages I've heard this week, care to explain just what the fuck you're talking about?
2eelShmeal 7 months ago
Uh ..... yeah. Everything that is alive is so because something else is dead.
That's just how it works.
curlew0609 7 months ago
i saw this one, but because i thought you were not talking to me, i only gave it thumbs up and did not comment.
This is i think one of my favorite, Gary at his best, and you Ninja mou, and you!
nutsinthecoco 7 months ago
@nutsinthecoco I'm sorry you got that impression, you was gone for the longest time... but it's my fault really, I shoulda sent you a pm when I came back. It's nice to hear from you. :D
graytaich0 7 months ago
@BloodForTruth
People with differing thoughts are not trolls.
When it's used that way, you've essentially become religious and conspiracy nuts. I'm not a "shill" nor a "devil worshipper".
How stupid can ya be?
saguarodundee 7 months ago
@DoctorSalt I watched The Wall days prior to making this, and it's not accidentally beautiful, I assure you. A common theme among dissenting voices has been "sure, there are trillions upon trllions of creatures suffering needlessly in perpetuity, but I enjoy watching them run around in YouTube videos so I'm pretty happy with it"... I dunno about you, but personally, even with a video as brilliant as this one, I couldn't weigh it's 'beauty' against just one seal used as a killer whale's chew toy.
graytaich0 8 months ago
@WiseMonkey888 How dare you dare me... I dare you to double-dog-dare me and then see what happens!
As far as I recall, your comment was some crap about 'smelling an agrument for free will' in regards to human action. You see, it's determined that good people will generally act & not walk the fuck away. It was also determined that your insecure psychology (not your free will) would compell you to remove your weak bullshit, and that I'd laugh at both of your pathetic little comments.
Tata, chap.
graytaich0 8 months ago
@WiseMonkey888
Could I be so bold as to ask, what was the comment you removed?
saguarodundee 8 months ago
@WiseMonkey888 That comment was silly, thanks for removing it.
Tata, as you say.
graytaich0 8 months ago