English is like Latin. It will die. Esperanto is like no other language. It will survive because people want it to survive. Perhaps Esperanto will never become everybodys second language. But it has spawned a unique culture of its own; and that culture must be maintained, as must any culture. We read books in Esperanto. Some of us teach our children Esperanto because it helps them learn other languages. It is a culture. At least admit that it is as worth preserving as, say, the Nigerian culture.
@mechatech70 Soooo what? So has klingon. Sindarin, whatever. there are countless examples of fictional languages that do exactly the same thing. What does that mean? Nigerien culture = real, natural ancient culture. Esperanto = is and always will be invented. Deal with it., Just like Klingon will always be invented or Sindarin or Na'vi. No matter how many texts you write in it: It is invented and will never become a real natural culture.
@Valvallaria You assume the culture of Klingon and Sindarin are not worth preserving? Why? People enjoy it. Isn't that what matters? And actually, the Nigerian culture is not ancient. The one they have adopted as a country is quiet modern. There are, of course, ancient tribal cultures, but they are mostly ignored.
@mechatech70 Because it's a hobby. Not more, not less. And I don't classify "Hobby" as culture. Otherwise any madeupcraplanguage would have to considered to be culture, while infact they are just that: made up nonsense. No sense, no heart, no history. Culture is heritage, it is what shaped for example language. Tolkien with his elvenlanguages are certainly real langauges in their context - since he developed more than just a language - he developed a whole langage TREE.
@mechatech70 Esperanto on the other hand, is just a biased mixture of everything thrown into a room and claimed to be soooo cultural. Infact it has no heritage but the mind of some guy twisting around some words to fit his once purpose. That is not culture, that is not even creative. Tolkien was creative, or maybe even Marc Okrand, but esperanto is just a lifeless spoofed version of spanish, which flies into the face of any old and minority culture if that is called worth preserving
@Valvallaria "Culture: The beliefs, values, behaviour and material objects that constitute a people's way of life." That is how dictionaries define culture. Esperantists believe Esperanto is a good thing. Check 1. They behave according to their own way. As I mentioned above, they participate in Esperanto related activites. Thus, Esperanto is a behavior. Esperanto has books, magazines, even a couple of movies which utilize it. These are material objects. And Esperantists will swear that...
"Esperantists" lmao! What comes nexts? Englishists? Frenshists? By the way, I don't give a damn on dictionary defintions. Definitons like these can vary very much - just think about that "pandemy" definition which was changed quite recently that it could include about anything. It's made up, and I don't have anything for those made up languages, except they are done well, like tolkiens languages. They at least have a history in itself, a heritage. No matter how many films books..
@Valvallaria Esperanto is a way of life, which is provided through the beliefs they have in it, the values they uphold through it, the behavior which utilizes it, and the material objects which are used by Esperantists. That is culture. Just as people who play football call football a culture. Because it is. And so is Esperanto. It is logic.
@mechatech70 ...whatever you make in esperanto: it IS and STAYS made up crap. Nor do I recognize "football" as culture. otherwise I would have to say when the drunken idiots walk past our house, leaving their trash everywhere on my property "oh look at those cultivated people!" Nope, doesn't work. You and esperanto and what esperanto stands for are to me destruction of other cultures in favour of this Bs. Why? because Esperanto gives this delusion that is somehow helps solving any..
@mechatech70 .. language problem. it doesn't. In fact it creates more and dooms Minority languages even more, since people rather learn this crap than investing time in their REAL local culture. Sindarin, Klingon etc don't claim to be world langauges so they are just made up and won't ever get many learners, so whatever.
@Valvallaria You have convinced me of the ignorance of humanity. I know you do not care, but you have definitely shown me that logic is lost on people who refuse to believe whatever they want to believe. Believe what you will, I care little. You are but a single person, and whatever you believe is your business. You will not change. You are afraid of change. No matter how much sense something makes, you refuse to accept it, because that would mean giving up life-long ideals. You are like the...
@mechatech70 "afraid of change"? what are you? obama? CHAAAAAAANGE!! I refuse to accept this redicolus crap of a language as culture. Get over it. It's made up and stays that way. All you do is learning a pet language which isn't exactly helping anyone. And what is good about it? And why are you speaking english here? If it's so good, then speak esperanto. Everywhere. Oh right. you can't. And you'll see that I'm not alone. I say most people will just call you nuts then.
@Valvallaria ...popes of 200 years ago. You don't know when something good has come along. The only difference is that the popes were against science, which harmed their faith. You are against something which does not affect you in the least. You have no right to say anything against it, as you refuse to look at in in a deep light at all. You can only keep your opinion. And I shall keep mine. And if you truly care about your opinion being free for you to have, then you will allow Esperantists...
@mechatech70 I refuse becasue I am not willing to let this made up junk influence century old cultures. Ture tehy have always changed, but at least the things that changed it weren't made up like this. So take you pet language and delude yourself with the thought that you are doing something good. You are not. You are neitherh elping any culture nor are you learning the future "universal language". You are just spending your time on a pet langauge, similar to people learning klingon
@Valvallaria ...theirs. Have a nice life. I am done discussing this with a person who refuses to even learn a little bit about what they despise. Know thy enemy. Age old wisdom which you believe you are above. I like Esperanto, you do not. Fine, let us leave it at that. And I do not care if you believe you have won a debate, or if you call me a quitter. Those are the words of somebody who knows deep down that they have failed. I am ending this discussion. Ĝis revido.
@mechatech70 Oh no i havn't failed. On the contrary. and I find it very interesting that you totally know what I think deeeep inside. Thing is you don't. You don't know ANYTHING about me, really. So don't even try to play this card. I know enough about esperanto that I can dislike this very model after which it is made. You underestimate people. A LOT. "age old wisdom" lmao yah.. no comment.
Esperanto vivas. Esperanto lives in every country of the world, fulfilling the dream of its founder to produce thousands and thousands of individual friendships and even a few thousand international marriages. I have no complaints against Volapuk, since I know it minimally.
Se o Esperanto morreu, o Volapuk sequer nasceu, veja bem que em 93 haviam 2 falantes em toda Inglaterra, creio que já estão mortos ambos, enquanto o Esperanto em 93 tinha milhares só na Inglaterra e hoje são mais que em 93, o Esperanto possui milhões de falantes fluentes e mais milhões de falantes avançados, medianos e iniciantes, o Esperanto na pior das hipóteses hoje, não possui em sua totalidade menos que 6 milhões de falantes em todos os níveis, mas isso num contexto pessimista.
@Valvallaria Kiu lingvo vi volas ke ni parolu internacie? La malĝustan anglan por ĉiuj la homoj? Plena domino el unu kulturo sur alia. Esperanto havas riĉan kulturon, transnacian, unuigas la kulturon de siaj parolantoj, kiu estas monda. Ĉu angla? Unuigas la kulturon nur de unu aŭ iom da landoj. Sed se vi ankoraŭ volas diri ke Esperanto ne havas kulturon, estas pli bone ne havi kulturon ol aĉeti la kulturon de unika popolo. Esperanto estas komplete ĝusta kaj demokratia, kontraŭe via penso.
When Esperanto killed Volapuk in the 1880s, the last Volapukist cursed Esperanto, he eerily uttered: "Esperanto you will live while my loved Language Volapuk will be forever dead. You shall live, but shall live always dying, for every new esperantist an old one will die, your number will never grow. From you own wound shall be born your worst enemies and they will eat you from your insides that will be always bleeding"
Esperanto mortigas Volapukon, sed la lasta Volapukisto malbenis Esperanton. Uzante Esperanto por la malbeno, Li diris:"Esperanto vi vivos, sed vi vivos ciam pri-mortanta, ciu nova esperantisto okazigos ke olda esperantisto estos mortito" "Esperanto, mortigante Volapukon, nun vi unigas la homoj kie esperas por Internacia Lingvoj, sed plu baldauxe ol baldaux, el propa via utero naskigxos multe vian idojn, kiu estos malfidelugoj je vi, kiu malamos vin, kiu shango soifantes mordos al vi."
@hailvishnu Esperanto is worse than being dead. It never lived in teh first place. It has no own history, it has no own floklore etc. It never had.. anything. It's a mixup of languages, which to me, sounds redicolous. Speaking Esperanto is no better than speaking klingon or na'vi... except that klingon at least has the warriorculture rooted in it, and thus more culture than experanto will ever have.
I don´t know how to tell you this, it is quite embarrassing, because you must be a kind of sucker that believes that martians are about to attack Planet Earth and that in 2012 the world is over; but I´ve got to inform you that Klingons and Klingon Culture are fiction. The Klingon language exist, but it was invented by humans. The only people who believe otherwise are you and some kids under six.
Nur vi kaj junaj sub-ses-jaraj knaboj kredas ke Klingonojn ekzistigxas. Esperanto Vivas !
@powerdriller10 O ofc. Nop, your language does not live. Not any more than klingon or Na'vi lives. You language does not even have a real histroy, but some corrupted words out of other languages mixed together, in order to create something new and unnecessary. Esperanto was also invented by humans, just like any other language, excpet that natural languages are invented due to NEED to communicate, not due to, well, due to the sake of inventing it. Sheesh. You logic sucks, really.
@Valvallaria What language do you want us to speak internationally? The unjust english to all people? A complete domination of one culture over another. Esperanto does have a rich culture, transnational, brings together the culture of its speakers, which is worldwide. English? Gather the culture or just a few countries. But if you still want to say that Esperanto has no culture, it is better not to have than consume the powerful culture of one people.
@Gofzamen "Unjust english" lawl. Welcome to the world. The world IS unjust. It always was. And you with your stupid petlanguge won't change that. And what kind of stupid logic is that? "better to have none than one?" I see now: Esperanto is a braintumor. it Makes people say stupid sounds and fucks of their logical thinking.
Ahwell, anway. I told you before and I will again: I laugh at you. meQtaHbogh qachDaq Suv qoH neH
@Gofzamen We'll already wait since about 100 years... and esperanto hasn't done much of anything. true, there are more speakers - but the worldpopulation has grwon as well... sooo yah. Not much of anything..
@Valvallaria Esperanto has 124 years. 10 million of speakers. In 2004, if you search "Esperanto" on Google, you find 6.000.000 of results. Try now. Search "Esperanto" and you find 119.000.000 of results.
@Gofzamen 10 million. MY ASS! Maybe in your dreams, but esperanto has in NO WAY 10 million. NO WAY!
According to a survey (a very generus survey acztually!) it was estimated that esperanto has between 10.000 and 2 million (sortof) lfuent speakers. Although surveys have the tendency to be manipulated in order to improve the status of a language: thus lying about teh actual competence of a language. So I'd say it's about 1.000.000 at best - with some generous rounding for esperanto.
@Gofzamen DO I smell Godwin's law? I happen to know 2 small languages (well, 1,5) and 2 large ones and have quite some experience with surveys et cetera. I happen to know how many people do manipulate surveys so that their (normally less used) language does look better than it actually is. Esperanto is no different.
@Valvallaria And I know how people will always believe what they want to. Even to this day I am sure that somewhere in the world people are talking of how flat the Earth is. I implore you not to be one of those people with regards to Esperanto. Learn it. Then see if you can still criticize it. That is a challenge. Learn it. Otherwise you have no right to say anything bad about it, because you no nothing about it. No matter how well informed you think you are. You still do not speak it. Learn it.
@mechatech70 Challenge me as much as you want - I don't need to learn it to see that I don't even like how it sounds. I have better things to do with my time than to learn a fictional language - you know, like learning REAL regional/minority languages which are actually endangered. Esperanto sounds to me like retarded Spanish - so no, I will not learn retarded Spanish for the sake of.. what again? so go along, babble your petlanguage, I do something for REAL old cultures isntead.
@powerdriller10 *I* hate to tell you that, for example, Sindarin, one of Tolkiens elvenlanguages has more culture, more life and history in it than esperanto will EVER have, even if it hasn't even ONE fluent speaker. They are, in themselves, in their world, real languages, developed after real linguistic and natural schematics. Esperanto, however, is not. Well, yep klingon is fiction, but so is you redicolous little mixuplanguage. it's not any different from klingon.
There are Esperanto meeting all over the world, some getting together thousands of Esperantist people. Some marriages have been the result of those meetings, bride and groom having only Esperanto as common language, the courtship done in Esperanto. There are children who have Esperanto as a mother language. Literature of great quality has been written in Esperanto. There are entire Esperantist neighborhoods in Brazil, with children playing Soccer yelling in Esperanto.
And about your silly criticism of Esperanto for being a mix of languages, well, you are gonna have to bash also English, Spanish, Latin, Greek, French etc because they are also a mix of languages. Even Indo-european the mother´s mother´s mother of European languages may be a mixture. And I´m sure Klingon and Sinadrin were created by preconceptions about language embedded in the minds of their Anglophone creators, even if these ones tried to evade vocabulary copying.
@powerdriller10 Fail. Kling and Sindarin were created by linguists, pratculary Sindain wasn't even created after the picture of a gemranic language, but welsh - bt on the same time has pretty much nothing to do with it. All natural languagesare mixes, yes BUT (!) tehy mixed because of the need to do so, not because some dude wanted to create a new mix, which is in itself totally unneccessary and devides even more. In addition: ALL of tolkiens language have etymologies.
Esperanto vivas !! Esperantistoj ne zorgas pri fikanta fi-ulos kiel vi, aux vian fi-opinioj. Dum oni estas kiu parolas kaj amas Esperanton, Esperanto Vivos !!
Mientra haya gente que hable y ame el Esperanto, el Esperanto vivirá, sin importar la imbécil opinión de tarados como tú Valva.
As long as there exist people who speaks and love Esperanto, and make love in Esperanto, Esperanto shall live, without caring about fucking idiots like you.
@powerdriller10 Alright, next time you make fun of anyone using klingon to speak to other klingon speakers, you make yourself a hypocrite. Same for Na'vi or any other invented language. The most funny thing is, that people who like esperanto propably suck learning real languages like italian or spanish... which is pretty much teh root of most of that joke of a language. So, they resort to an invented language so that most peopel can't tell wetehr it's correct or not. Oh well whatever, lol.
I do not mock people who learns Klingon. It is their hobby, no problem.. Maybe Klingo was invented by professional linguists, but they got the inspiration from an animal experiment. A donkey was fucking a hyena, while a rat was stuck up the ass´s ass. The donkey bray, the Hyena moany bark, the squeak of the rat, were recorded. The sound was lowered 3 or 4 tones, and then Klingon was born. The donkey farting the rat provided the 3 last letters of the alphabet.
@powerdriller10 Strange, I think you mixed up the sounds of Esperanto and Klingon. Last time I've heared Esperanto, it sounded exactly like that how you described it... only a little worse.. maybe it was you speaking normally... I dunno. Anyway. Have fun in your little cliquey Esperanto world, deluding yourself into something that... oh well forget it. Arguing with Esperantospeakers is liek arguing with creationists: a waste of time.
@Valvallaria Tanga ka naman pala e. Kaya ginawa ang Esperanto para mapagaan ang pakikipag-usap ng bawat tao sa mundo. You suck! Ginawa ito para pwedeng intindihin ang damdamin ng ibang lahi. Kung gusto mong mag-aral ng ibang language, e di mag-aral ka. Di naman pinagbabawal yun ng mga esperantist e. Yung pa nga ang gusto nila, mai-share kahit yung mga minor language.
If you didn't understand my post, learn my language like you've mentioned in your post. Anyway, your English is not correct. Suck
@brencaivan Sooo? My english in't correct - never said it was, now, did I? Well, nah. English works fine for me as a worldlanguage, and as it seems for everyone else aswell but a little clique who think they are special because of their petlanguage (which you have to learn like any other). Anyway, I speak three languages well enough to communicate in them fluently about most things and one quite decent, and none of them are such invented ones.. soo what do I care?
@Valvallaria We don't admit that Esperanto is an invented one, it's pretty obvious. And we didn't say we're special, it's you who said that. Anyway, Tagalog has a word for "minor language and for "you suck". It just seems that we use it often.(We're also English speakers :D ) How about French "sachet" when English has the word "pack" for it. Huh? Any significant evidence to prove that Esperanto is insignifficant? Poor you. Very closed-minded.
@brencaivan So... what? Oh no, I'm not close minded. I'm just not a friend of bullshit ideas. I have never EVER met only ONE Esperanto speaker, who was able to use it in any way to be able to really communcate freely. Not ONE - well for that matter I haven ot even met one who could speak more than some words. To me, that IS insignifficant. As I said: In NO WAY are tehre 2 million Esp. speakers who can use it fluently. If there are arounf 300 - 400.000 that is already a good number at best.
@brencaivan btw, seems like google translator to me. You fail. Or do you wnat to tell me that a language with 22 Million first language speakers does not have a word for "minor language" or "You suck" or .. ahwell whatever.
Btw, Esperanto does not alleviate ANYTHING. 2 Million people (and I DOUBT that all of them could speak the langauge to such an extend that they could talk about everything) are NOTHING on the world. NOTHING! 2 million are about 0,03% of the world population.
@Valvallaria Oh! You're a future-teller again. Oh my Goodness! I didn't thought you're such a good fortune-teller. Can you teach me that. I want to know when will US be replaced by China in power and Mandarin Chinese be the Global Language. Heheh! Anyway, that's one of the reason why English spread. For centuries, Latin, Greek and French were considered to be world langs before. They're all beautiful langs, natural langs and full of cultures and histories. Yeh, world langs BEFORE.
@brencaivan Esperanto is insigniffcant. Englishspeakers who have the language as their Mothertongue alone kicks its butt with about 4,86%. Hell, even Swissgerman is still more of a world language than Esperanto with 0,06% of the WP. Lol. Srsly, I find that more than funny that people actually think they are doing something with this lol. Ah well, speak chinese: 18,57%. THAT is a worldlanguage on its own. lul
@Valvallaria Maybe it's not Esperanto or Volapuk that will be the universal language of the world, but It's obviously sure that one language will replace English as the working language of the literate people when the time will come that America will fall and a new state will rise before her.
Well, Spanish is a good bet. Almost next to chinese in number. If I'll choose a natural lang to be the world language, I'll choose Spanish than English. Es mas buena que ingles porque es mas facil. haha.
@brencaivan Actually, it's more than likely that esperantop will not be of any significance. Let the economy crash for once for real, and people will abandon that language faster than you can count to 1 because then tehy have no time for that and will learn the language of the new economic power. And I doubt that that will be spain. Sorry.
@Valvallaria Well. I didn't say that it's Spain. Spanish is not only spoken in Spain. By the way, it's not connected to the power I had mentioned. If I would just choose a natural language if a conlang wouldn't work, I'll go Spanish. heyhey.
@powerdriller10 I suggest you have a look at Tolkiens languages and gather some information before you claim such nonsense. And so what? Meetings blablabl - what does us tell that? That esperanto has greated a new group. great -as if there were not enough groups already. That's why I'm talking about: it's unnecessary and devides even more. If you really want to talk to someone, leanr their language. Not only will you understand them better, but also their cultural background.
@Valvallaria A universal language must not have its own history and culture to live. If you're logical, you'll understand that. But speaking with an idiot who has very poor brain to understand the mission of Esperanto, Esperanto has history and culture. Read some. And anyway, every culture and history of the world begun with its language and language evolves with the culture and history of the people using it.
@brencaivan Nope. The language evolved according to the culture. You don't have a word for "farming" before you actually know how to farm. YOU are illogical.
2. At best (!) 2 million is hardly universal. Learn english either way, and you will be understood well in more countries and by more people Esperanto can ever hope to achieve - even if it wasn't the actual world language. To me esperanto is simply a waste of money.
@Valvallaria Esperanto is made to be Universal. It's not universal yet. Non-sense of the numbers. Get it? So no one can ever tell a future just by telling someone's one-sided opinion. Get it again? And oh! You said it's English that is your worldlanguage. Then go to Myanmar or to North Korea. Then speak with them in English. Better not if you don't wanna get your head down on the floor!
@brencaivan Esperanto is not made to be universal. That's bullshit, my friend. As an example: ALL asiatic languages are pretty much non existant in esperanto. They still have the same disadvantage to anyone else - possibly even more, because esperanto is a european language at best and in no sense made to be universal.. Btw: go to Myanmar and speak esperanto: Even less people will udnerstand it. Now and in 200 years from now.
@Valvallaria Poor Valvallaria. Din't even know that some esperanto words have asian etymology. OK. I wouldn't admit that esperanto is a european lang. because of its syntax and structure: prefixing and phonology. But as I have said, it's made to be universal. TO BE UNIVERSAL. not to be a national lang. OK. It just seems that choosing to sound european will help people who already speaks european lang. to adopt easily for most of the spoken langs are european.
@brencaivan I told you, it is NOT 'made to be universal'. That's what you tell yourself, but in reality most words are from european languages. And the syntax of one language like turkish is hardly representative for all asiatic languages, my poor deluded friend. And don't tell me that phonology is asiatic. That's bullshit. Then esperanto would be a tonal language. Anyway go have your petlanguage and delude yourself that you are somehow helping with something with it. Oh well.
@Valvallaria Apesar de o Esperanto ter radicais vindos predominantemente de línguas europeias, a sua morfologia é totalmente oriental, aglutinante, como o japonês e o vietnamita. Esperanto tem o corpo ocidental e a alma oriental, portanto é útil para todos os povos, ao contrário do inglês, por exemplo... Asiáticos conseguem muito bem conversar nessa língua, sem dificuldades em pronúncia, como ocorre no inglês, que só para começar a vogal 'a' possui 12 sons diferentes.
@Valvallaria Although the Esperanto has radicals come predominantly from European languages, its morphology is entirely Western, is binder, such as Japanese and Vietnamese. Esperanto has the body East and soul West, so it is useful to all people, unlike the English, for example... Asians can speak that language very well, no difficulties in pronunciation, unlike what occurs in English, which only the vowel 'a' has 12 different sounds.
@Gofzamen Rrriiiight - and now, please talk like a normal human being? I'm not talking about morphology or whatever but rather what the heck you mean with "binder". If people wouldn't use the worst possible way to learn a language, every god damned point about pronounciation would be irrelevant. And then there are those who don't WANT to learn a langauge - and those won't learn a fictional language either, no matter how simple it is.
@Gofzamen Anway, as I said it before: Take your stupid petlanguage - but I laugh at people learning it. Seems you serioudly think you are doing someone a favour with it - well, time to meet reality: You are not. You are not helping anyone with it, you are not chaaanging the world with it, and so on. Know why? Because no one CARES wether the worldlanguage changes. it is a change over many generations. At one point the books change, and that's it. Noone cares, really.
@Valvallaria So what do you speak? You just try to invalidate the Esperanto language by its nature planned? Oh! Try to use more convincing arguments. Maybe with your way of being egocentric, unable to realize that thousands of cultures are dying each year due to linguistic imperialism. For this, it is necessary to a neutral language that unites all people under a democratic language foundation. But you want people to know about unity? Discrimination, discrimination ...
@Gofzamen Let's see, I speak German, English, Lowgerman (the real one not just a dialect) and quite decent welsh. *I* are actually doing something for those cultures by learning their languages - what are you doing? Oh riiiighhht you learn an invented one that.. has nothing to do with... well anything in any land.. so... how does that help? oh right. It does not. Any language sed internationally and to a large extend WILL influence the other languages. Gte over it,you logic is flawed.
@Gofzamen and where? Do you think, just because your mixlanguage isn't reeeaally spoken anywhere it won#t influence any other language? Well, then wake up from your dreamworld and welcome to reality. Exactly the same will happen, just with english of whever. First esperantowords will get stuck in daily use of teh media, then in then ormal language and.. ah wahtever. It's not worth the time. see you (Not)
@Valvallaria Yes, I spend a lot of energy learning languagesinvented. And you spend a lot of energy leaving you dominate other cultures, especially American.
@Gofzamen Lawl know what? Culture is not only a language - and wether the medium of transmission is an invented BS language or a real one does not matter. If another culture is dominating, then it also will be through any other language. That includes esperanto - or put differently: Esperanto will take the place of english and will damage every other culture just as much. You know, that is the result of communicating between cultures. its inevitable if you want a worldalnguage.
@brencaivan Sooo what? And you think that a winning power will make theeffort to learn the language of the conquered? Poor deluded dude. They will say: Adapt our language and that's it. They hardly will say Oooooh well, we have 18% of the world population that speak our language and the possibility to strenhthen our position with our language - but nah, let's waste more money and teach everyone that other language.
@Valvallaria Que língua você quer que falemos internacionalmente? O injusto inglês para todos os povos? Uma dominação completa de uma só cultura sobre outra. Esperanto tem sim uma cultura rica, transnacional, reune a cultura dos seus falantes, que é mundial. Inglês? Reune a cultura apenas de um ou poucos países. Mas se ainda você quer dizer que Esperanto não tem cultura, é melhor não ter do que consumir a cultura de outro povo. É completamente justo e democrático, ao contrário do seu pensamento.
@Valvallaria Well, you're entitled to your opinion about Esperanto's cultural and aesthetic value, but the linguistic fact is that it is a living language, and has many more (fluent) speakers than several hundred natural languages (like Tsakonian, for example.) In any event, your criticism can equally well be aimed at Volapuk, which is what this video is about (and which claims that Esperanto has died.) Also, redicolous is not a word. Eble vi devas lerni anglan lingvon.
@hailvishnu It is and so what? Even klingon has more speakers than many natural languages. Or na#vi. What deos that tell us...? Right. Nothing. Only that people are willing to put their time into learning yet another language (which is in itself already strange - "there are so many langauges, how do we communicate? I have an idea.. let's make anotehr one!" Txon lefpom sì eywa ngahu
Putz, sério que o esperanto morreu? Nossa, como é que eu vou fazer agora? Passei tanto tempo falando essa língua e ela simplesmente já estava morta? Ai, minha Nossa Senhora...
Is this a joke? Volapuk was pretty much flattened by esperanto (indeed it paved the way for it). I can only hope that Fr. Schleyer's canonization comes through.
Si on dikte, ke Esperanto ha morta, on simplim non ha/konosa/usa li interete. Es multi idiomes international, e sal, til es persones, keles voli usa e propaga lus. Disdi es li die del lingues - sertim anke li lingues international. Salutes a omnes linguistes e konlangeres!
Kiam Espersnto aperis en la 19-a jarcento, ĝi efektive mortigis Volapauk. La Asocio de Volapuk ŝanĝis ĝian fokuson al la nova lingvo. Esperanto travivis, Volapuk pli malpli malaperis.
Acontece, senhores, que isto é uma reportagem dum programa humorístico chamado EuroTrash. Ou seja, quando eles disseram que o Esperanto morreu, era pra ser uma piada.
Não senhor CesarDorneles. O Volapuko tem uma gramática simples, é a planificação das classes gramaticais que ele não possui, e por isso é mais complexo.
Agora, o vídeo leva nota 0 (zero) porque diz que "um mundo, um idioma, morreu como Esperanto". Morreu coisa nenhuma. Sou falante de Esperanto e tenho 52 contatos ao redor do mundo, fora os falantes da minha cidade.
Ah sem dúvida chrisjabur. Eu falo esperanto mesmo, mas por uma curiosidade histórica eu dei uma olhada no Volapuque, e realmente a parte de vocabulário do Volapuque é mal formulada.
É interessante observar que o volapuque acabou fracassando por ter uma gramática extremamente complicada. De qualquer forma, merece nosso respeito no sentido de que foi uma tentativa, dentre as muitas que tivemos, para se criar uma língua planejada para a comunicação internacional. A idéia era boa e foi aperfeiçoada no esperanto, que conseguiu tornar-se uma língua efetivamente viva e com cultura própria.
This was an interesting video. Volapuk sounds a bit like German.
mechatech70 1 month ago
English is like Latin. It will die. Esperanto is like no other language. It will survive because people want it to survive. Perhaps Esperanto will never become everybodys second language. But it has spawned a unique culture of its own; and that culture must be maintained, as must any culture. We read books in Esperanto. Some of us teach our children Esperanto because it helps them learn other languages. It is a culture. At least admit that it is as worth preserving as, say, the Nigerian culture.
mechatech70 1 month ago
@mechatech70 Soooo what? So has klingon. Sindarin, whatever. there are countless examples of fictional languages that do exactly the same thing. What does that mean? Nigerien culture = real, natural ancient culture. Esperanto = is and always will be invented. Deal with it., Just like Klingon will always be invented or Sindarin or Na'vi. No matter how many texts you write in it: It is invented and will never become a real natural culture.
Valvallaria 1 month ago
@Valvallaria You assume the culture of Klingon and Sindarin are not worth preserving? Why? People enjoy it. Isn't that what matters? And actually, the Nigerian culture is not ancient. The one they have adopted as a country is quiet modern. There are, of course, ancient tribal cultures, but they are mostly ignored.
mechatech70 1 month ago
@mechatech70 Because it's a hobby. Not more, not less. And I don't classify "Hobby" as culture. Otherwise any madeupcraplanguage would have to considered to be culture, while infact they are just that: made up nonsense. No sense, no heart, no history. Culture is heritage, it is what shaped for example language. Tolkien with his elvenlanguages are certainly real langauges in their context - since he developed more than just a language - he developed a whole langage TREE.
Valvallaria 1 month ago
@mechatech70 Esperanto on the other hand, is just a biased mixture of everything thrown into a room and claimed to be soooo cultural. Infact it has no heritage but the mind of some guy twisting around some words to fit his once purpose. That is not culture, that is not even creative. Tolkien was creative, or maybe even Marc Okrand, but esperanto is just a lifeless spoofed version of spanish, which flies into the face of any old and minority culture if that is called worth preserving
Valvallaria 1 month ago
@Valvallaria "Culture: The beliefs, values, behaviour and material objects that constitute a people's way of life." That is how dictionaries define culture. Esperantists believe Esperanto is a good thing. Check 1. They behave according to their own way. As I mentioned above, they participate in Esperanto related activites. Thus, Esperanto is a behavior. Esperanto has books, magazines, even a couple of movies which utilize it. These are material objects. And Esperantists will swear that...
mechatech70 1 month ago
"Esperantists" lmao! What comes nexts? Englishists? Frenshists? By the way, I don't give a damn on dictionary defintions. Definitons like these can vary very much - just think about that "pandemy" definition which was changed quite recently that it could include about anything. It's made up, and I don't have anything for those made up languages, except they are done well, like tolkiens languages. They at least have a history in itself, a heritage. No matter how many films books..
Valvallaria 1 month ago
@Valvallaria Esperanto is a way of life, which is provided through the beliefs they have in it, the values they uphold through it, the behavior which utilizes it, and the material objects which are used by Esperantists. That is culture. Just as people who play football call football a culture. Because it is. And so is Esperanto. It is logic.
mechatech70 1 month ago
@mechatech70 ...whatever you make in esperanto: it IS and STAYS made up crap. Nor do I recognize "football" as culture. otherwise I would have to say when the drunken idiots walk past our house, leaving their trash everywhere on my property "oh look at those cultivated people!" Nope, doesn't work. You and esperanto and what esperanto stands for are to me destruction of other cultures in favour of this Bs. Why? because Esperanto gives this delusion that is somehow helps solving any..
Valvallaria 1 month ago
@mechatech70 .. language problem. it doesn't. In fact it creates more and dooms Minority languages even more, since people rather learn this crap than investing time in their REAL local culture. Sindarin, Klingon etc don't claim to be world langauges so they are just made up and won't ever get many learners, so whatever.
Valvallaria 1 month ago
@Valvallaria You have convinced me of the ignorance of humanity. I know you do not care, but you have definitely shown me that logic is lost on people who refuse to believe whatever they want to believe. Believe what you will, I care little. You are but a single person, and whatever you believe is your business. You will not change. You are afraid of change. No matter how much sense something makes, you refuse to accept it, because that would mean giving up life-long ideals. You are like the...
mechatech70 1 month ago
@mechatech70 "afraid of change"? what are you? obama? CHAAAAAAANGE!! I refuse to accept this redicolus crap of a language as culture. Get over it. It's made up and stays that way. All you do is learning a pet language which isn't exactly helping anyone. And what is good about it? And why are you speaking english here? If it's so good, then speak esperanto. Everywhere. Oh right. you can't. And you'll see that I'm not alone. I say most people will just call you nuts then.
Valvallaria 1 month ago
@Valvallaria ...popes of 200 years ago. You don't know when something good has come along. The only difference is that the popes were against science, which harmed their faith. You are against something which does not affect you in the least. You have no right to say anything against it, as you refuse to look at in in a deep light at all. You can only keep your opinion. And I shall keep mine. And if you truly care about your opinion being free for you to have, then you will allow Esperantists...
mechatech70 1 month ago
@mechatech70 I refuse becasue I am not willing to let this made up junk influence century old cultures. Ture tehy have always changed, but at least the things that changed it weren't made up like this. So take you pet language and delude yourself with the thought that you are doing something good. You are not. You are neitherh elping any culture nor are you learning the future "universal language". You are just spending your time on a pet langauge, similar to people learning klingon
Valvallaria 1 month ago
@Valvallaria ...theirs. Have a nice life. I am done discussing this with a person who refuses to even learn a little bit about what they despise. Know thy enemy. Age old wisdom which you believe you are above. I like Esperanto, you do not. Fine, let us leave it at that. And I do not care if you believe you have won a debate, or if you call me a quitter. Those are the words of somebody who knows deep down that they have failed. I am ending this discussion. Ĝis revido.
mechatech70 1 month ago
@mechatech70 Oh no i havn't failed. On the contrary. and I find it very interesting that you totally know what I think deeeep inside. Thing is you don't. You don't know ANYTHING about me, really. So don't even try to play this card. I know enough about esperanto that I can dislike this very model after which it is made. You underestimate people. A LOT. "age old wisdom" lmao yah.. no comment.
Valvallaria 1 month ago
Esperanto vivas. Esperanto lives in every country of the world, fulfilling the dream of its founder to produce thousands and thousands of individual friendships and even a few thousand international marriages. I have no complaints against Volapuk, since I know it minimally.
neilnachum1 1 month ago
Cedü obi, Volapük binon jönikum ka Sperantapüki!
Interrobang3 2 months ago
Esperanto estas tre bona ne volapuk!
SkippyGraphicDesign 5 months ago
Se o Esperanto morreu, o Volapuk sequer nasceu, veja bem que em 93 haviam 2 falantes em toda Inglaterra, creio que já estão mortos ambos, enquanto o Esperanto em 93 tinha milhares só na Inglaterra e hoje são mais que em 93, o Esperanto possui milhões de falantes fluentes e mais milhões de falantes avançados, medianos e iniciantes, o Esperanto na pior das hipóteses hoje, não possui em sua totalidade menos que 6 milhões de falantes em todos os níveis, mas isso num contexto pessimista.
flipeicl 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Kiu lingvo vi volas ke ni parolu internacie? La malĝustan anglan por ĉiuj la homoj? Plena domino el unu kulturo sur alia. Esperanto havas riĉan kulturon, transnacian, unuigas la kulturon de siaj parolantoj, kiu estas monda. Ĉu angla? Unuigas la kulturon nur de unu aŭ iom da landoj. Sed se vi ankoraŭ volas diri ke Esperanto ne havas kulturon, estas pli bone ne havi kulturon ol aĉeti la kulturon de unika popolo. Esperanto estas komplete ĝusta kaj demokratia, kontraŭe via penso.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
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Gofzamen 6 months ago
It's true, nobody likes the British.
TheRacistsMustDie 6 months ago
When Esperanto killed Volapuk in the 1880s, the last Volapukist cursed Esperanto, he eerily uttered: "Esperanto you will live while my loved Language Volapuk will be forever dead. You shall live, but shall live always dying, for every new esperantist an old one will die, your number will never grow. From you own wound shall be born your worst enemies and they will eat you from your insides that will be always bleeding"
powerdriller10 7 months ago
Tiom da energio por revivigi la mortita lingvo volapuk estas tempo perdita .......
daniper01 7 months ago
@daniper
Esperanto mortigas Volapukon, sed la lasta Volapukisto malbenis Esperanton. Uzante Esperanto por la malbeno, Li diris:"Esperanto vi vivos, sed vi vivos ciam pri-mortanta, ciu nova esperantisto okazigos ke olda esperantisto estos mortito" "Esperanto, mortigante Volapukon, nun vi unigas la homoj kie esperas por Internacia Lingvoj, sed plu baldauxe ol baldaux, el propa via utero naskigxos multe vian idojn, kiu estos malfidelugoj je vi, kiu malamos vin, kiu shango soifantes mordos al vi."
powerdriller10 7 months ago
I'm sorry, when did Esperanto die? Mi parolas esperanton, kaj mi ne estas morta.
hailvishnu 8 months ago
@hailvishnu Esperanto is worse than being dead. It never lived in teh first place. It has no own history, it has no own floklore etc. It never had.. anything. It's a mixup of languages, which to me, sounds redicolous. Speaking Esperanto is no better than speaking klingon or na'vi... except that klingon at least has the warriorculture rooted in it, and thus more culture than experanto will ever have.
Valvallaria 8 months ago
@Valva
I don´t know how to tell you this, it is quite embarrassing, because you must be a kind of sucker that believes that martians are about to attack Planet Earth and that in 2012 the world is over; but I´ve got to inform you that Klingons and Klingon Culture are fiction. The Klingon language exist, but it was invented by humans. The only people who believe otherwise are you and some kids under six.
Nur vi kaj junaj sub-ses-jaraj knaboj kredas ke Klingonojn ekzistigxas. Esperanto Vivas !
powerdriller10 7 months ago
@powerdriller10 O ofc. Nop, your language does not live. Not any more than klingon or Na'vi lives. You language does not even have a real histroy, but some corrupted words out of other languages mixed together, in order to create something new and unnecessary. Esperanto was also invented by humans, just like any other language, excpet that natural languages are invented due to NEED to communicate, not due to, well, due to the sake of inventing it. Sheesh. You logic sucks, really.
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria What language do you want us to speak internationally? The unjust english to all people? A complete domination of one culture over another. Esperanto does have a rich culture, transnational, brings together the culture of its speakers, which is worldwide. English? Gather the culture or just a few countries. But if you still want to say that Esperanto has no culture, it is better not to have than consume the powerful culture of one people.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen "Unjust english" lawl. Welcome to the world. The world IS unjust. It always was. And you with your stupid petlanguge won't change that. And what kind of stupid logic is that? "better to have none than one?" I see now: Esperanto is a braintumor. it Makes people say stupid sounds and fucks of their logical thinking.
Ahwell, anway. I told you before and I will again: I laugh at you. meQtaHbogh qachDaq Suv qoH neH
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria And who said I did not laugh at you? Who laughs last, laughs best. Wait...
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen We'll already wait since about 100 years... and esperanto hasn't done much of anything. true, there are more speakers - but the worldpopulation has grwon as well... sooo yah. Not much of anything..
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Esperanto has 124 years. 10 million of speakers. In 2004, if you search "Esperanto" on Google, you find 6.000.000 of results. Try now. Search "Esperanto" and you find 119.000.000 of results.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen 10 million. MY ASS! Maybe in your dreams, but esperanto has in NO WAY 10 million. NO WAY!
According to a survey (a very generus survey acztually!) it was estimated that esperanto has between 10.000 and 2 million (sortof) lfuent speakers. Although surveys have the tendency to be manipulated in order to improve the status of a language: thus lying about teh actual competence of a language. So I'd say it's about 1.000.000 at best - with some generous rounding for esperanto.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria If you think you have the reason ever, keep it up, maybe in the future we will experience the new Hitler.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen DO I smell Godwin's law? I happen to know 2 small languages (well, 1,5) and 2 large ones and have quite some experience with surveys et cetera. I happen to know how many people do manipulate surveys so that their (normally less used) language does look better than it actually is. Esperanto is no different.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria And I know how people will always believe what they want to. Even to this day I am sure that somewhere in the world people are talking of how flat the Earth is. I implore you not to be one of those people with regards to Esperanto. Learn it. Then see if you can still criticize it. That is a challenge. Learn it. Otherwise you have no right to say anything bad about it, because you no nothing about it. No matter how well informed you think you are. You still do not speak it. Learn it.
mechatech70 1 month ago
@mechatech70 Challenge me as much as you want - I don't need to learn it to see that I don't even like how it sounds. I have better things to do with my time than to learn a fictional language - you know, like learning REAL regional/minority languages which are actually endangered. Esperanto sounds to me like retarded Spanish - so no, I will not learn retarded Spanish for the sake of.. what again? so go along, babble your petlanguage, I do something for REAL old cultures isntead.
Valvallaria 1 month ago
@mechatech70
Do, babilu kun mi, ĉar mi parolas esperanton. Mi rajtas paroli pri ĝi do, ĉu ne?
Volcano17r 2 weeks ago
@powerdriller10 *I* hate to tell you that, for example, Sindarin, one of Tolkiens elvenlanguages has more culture, more life and history in it than esperanto will EVER have, even if it hasn't even ONE fluent speaker. They are, in themselves, in their world, real languages, developed after real linguistic and natural schematics. Esperanto, however, is not. Well, yep klingon is fiction, but so is you redicolous little mixuplanguage. it's not any different from klingon.
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria
There are Esperanto meeting all over the world, some getting together thousands of Esperantist people. Some marriages have been the result of those meetings, bride and groom having only Esperanto as common language, the courtship done in Esperanto. There are children who have Esperanto as a mother language. Literature of great quality has been written in Esperanto. There are entire Esperantist neighborhoods in Brazil, with children playing Soccer yelling in Esperanto.
powerdriller10 7 months ago
@Valvallaria
And about your silly criticism of Esperanto for being a mix of languages, well, you are gonna have to bash also English, Spanish, Latin, Greek, French etc because they are also a mix of languages. Even Indo-european the mother´s mother´s mother of European languages may be a mixture. And I´m sure Klingon and Sinadrin were created by preconceptions about language embedded in the minds of their Anglophone creators, even if these ones tried to evade vocabulary copying.
powerdriller10 7 months ago
@powerdriller10 Fail. Kling and Sindarin were created by linguists, pratculary Sindain wasn't even created after the picture of a gemranic language, but welsh - bt on the same time has pretty much nothing to do with it. All natural languagesare mixes, yes BUT (!) tehy mixed because of the need to do so, not because some dude wanted to create a new mix, which is in itself totally unneccessary and devides even more. In addition: ALL of tolkiens language have etymologies.
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria
Esperanto vivas !! Esperantistoj ne zorgas pri fikanta fi-ulos kiel vi, aux vian fi-opinioj. Dum oni estas kiu parolas kaj amas Esperanton, Esperanto Vivos !!
Mientra haya gente que hable y ame el Esperanto, el Esperanto vivirá, sin importar la imbécil opinión de tarados como tú Valva.
As long as there exist people who speaks and love Esperanto, and make love in Esperanto, Esperanto shall live, without caring about fucking idiots like you.
Esperanto Semper Vivante !!
powerdriller10 7 months ago
@powerdriller10 Alright, next time you make fun of anyone using klingon to speak to other klingon speakers, you make yourself a hypocrite. Same for Na'vi or any other invented language. The most funny thing is, that people who like esperanto propably suck learning real languages like italian or spanish... which is pretty much teh root of most of that joke of a language. So, they resort to an invented language so that most peopel can't tell wetehr it's correct or not. Oh well whatever, lol.
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria
I do not mock people who learns Klingon. It is their hobby, no problem.. Maybe Klingo was invented by professional linguists, but they got the inspiration from an animal experiment. A donkey was fucking a hyena, while a rat was stuck up the ass´s ass. The donkey bray, the Hyena moany bark, the squeak of the rat, were recorded. The sound was lowered 3 or 4 tones, and then Klingon was born. The donkey farting the rat provided the 3 last letters of the alphabet.
powerdriller10 7 months ago
@powerdriller10 Strange, I think you mixed up the sounds of Esperanto and Klingon. Last time I've heared Esperanto, it sounded exactly like that how you described it... only a little worse.. maybe it was you speaking normally... I dunno. Anyway. Have fun in your little cliquey Esperanto world, deluding yourself into something that... oh well forget it. Arguing with Esperantospeakers is liek arguing with creationists: a waste of time.
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria Tanga ka naman pala e. Kaya ginawa ang Esperanto para mapagaan ang pakikipag-usap ng bawat tao sa mundo. You suck! Ginawa ito para pwedeng intindihin ang damdamin ng ibang lahi. Kung gusto mong mag-aral ng ibang language, e di mag-aral ka. Di naman pinagbabawal yun ng mga esperantist e. Yung pa nga ang gusto nila, mai-share kahit yung mga minor language.
If you didn't understand my post, learn my language like you've mentioned in your post. Anyway, your English is not correct. Suck
brencaivan 7 months ago
@brencaivan Sooo? My english in't correct - never said it was, now, did I? Well, nah. English works fine for me as a worldlanguage, and as it seems for everyone else aswell but a little clique who think they are special because of their petlanguage (which you have to learn like any other). Anyway, I speak three languages well enough to communicate in them fluently about most things and one quite decent, and none of them are such invented ones.. soo what do I care?
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria We don't admit that Esperanto is an invented one, it's pretty obvious. And we didn't say we're special, it's you who said that. Anyway, Tagalog has a word for "minor language and for "you suck". It just seems that we use it often.(We're also English speakers :D ) How about French "sachet" when English has the word "pack" for it. Huh? Any significant evidence to prove that Esperanto is insignifficant? Poor you. Very closed-minded.
brencaivan 6 months ago
@brencaivan So... what? Oh no, I'm not close minded. I'm just not a friend of bullshit ideas. I have never EVER met only ONE Esperanto speaker, who was able to use it in any way to be able to really communcate freely. Not ONE - well for that matter I haven ot even met one who could speak more than some words. To me, that IS insignifficant. As I said: In NO WAY are tehre 2 million Esp. speakers who can use it fluently. If there are arounf 300 - 400.000 that is already a good number at best.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@brencaivan btw, seems like google translator to me. You fail. Or do you wnat to tell me that a language with 22 Million first language speakers does not have a word for "minor language" or "You suck" or .. ahwell whatever.
Btw, Esperanto does not alleviate ANYTHING. 2 Million people (and I DOUBT that all of them could speak the langauge to such an extend that they could talk about everything) are NOTHING on the world. NOTHING! 2 million are about 0,03% of the world population.
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria Oh! You're a future-teller again. Oh my Goodness! I didn't thought you're such a good fortune-teller. Can you teach me that. I want to know when will US be replaced by China in power and Mandarin Chinese be the Global Language. Heheh! Anyway, that's one of the reason why English spread. For centuries, Latin, Greek and French were considered to be world langs before. They're all beautiful langs, natural langs and full of cultures and histories. Yeh, world langs BEFORE.
brencaivan 6 months ago
@brencaivan Esperanto is insigniffcant. Englishspeakers who have the language as their Mothertongue alone kicks its butt with about 4,86%. Hell, even Swissgerman is still more of a world language than Esperanto with 0,06% of the WP. Lol. Srsly, I find that more than funny that people actually think they are doing something with this lol. Ah well, speak chinese: 18,57%. THAT is a worldlanguage on its own. lul
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria Maybe it's not Esperanto or Volapuk that will be the universal language of the world, but It's obviously sure that one language will replace English as the working language of the literate people when the time will come that America will fall and a new state will rise before her.
Well, Spanish is a good bet. Almost next to chinese in number. If I'll choose a natural lang to be the world language, I'll choose Spanish than English. Es mas buena que ingles porque es mas facil. haha.
brencaivan 6 months ago
@brencaivan Actually, it's more than likely that esperantop will not be of any significance. Let the economy crash for once for real, and people will abandon that language faster than you can count to 1 because then tehy have no time for that and will learn the language of the new economic power. And I doubt that that will be spain. Sorry.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Well. I didn't say that it's Spain. Spanish is not only spoken in Spain. By the way, it's not connected to the power I had mentioned. If I would just choose a natural language if a conlang wouldn't work, I'll go Spanish. heyhey.
brencaivan 6 months ago
@powerdriller10 I suggest you have a look at Tolkiens languages and gather some information before you claim such nonsense. And so what? Meetings blablabl - what does us tell that? That esperanto has greated a new group. great -as if there were not enough groups already. That's why I'm talking about: it's unnecessary and devides even more. If you really want to talk to someone, leanr their language. Not only will you understand them better, but also their cultural background.
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria A universal language must not have its own history and culture to live. If you're logical, you'll understand that. But speaking with an idiot who has very poor brain to understand the mission of Esperanto, Esperanto has history and culture. Read some. And anyway, every culture and history of the world begun with its language and language evolves with the culture and history of the people using it.
brencaivan 7 months ago
@brencaivan Nope. The language evolved according to the culture. You don't have a word for "farming" before you actually know how to farm. YOU are illogical.
2. At best (!) 2 million is hardly universal. Learn english either way, and you will be understood well in more countries and by more people Esperanto can ever hope to achieve - even if it wasn't the actual world language. To me esperanto is simply a waste of money.
Valvallaria 7 months ago
@Valvallaria Esperanto is made to be Universal. It's not universal yet. Non-sense of the numbers. Get it? So no one can ever tell a future just by telling someone's one-sided opinion. Get it again? And oh! You said it's English that is your worldlanguage. Then go to Myanmar or to North Korea. Then speak with them in English. Better not if you don't wanna get your head down on the floor!
brencaivan 6 months ago
@brencaivan Esperanto is not made to be universal. That's bullshit, my friend. As an example: ALL asiatic languages are pretty much non existant in esperanto. They still have the same disadvantage to anyone else - possibly even more, because esperanto is a european language at best and in no sense made to be universal.. Btw: go to Myanmar and speak esperanto: Even less people will udnerstand it. Now and in 200 years from now.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Poor Valvallaria. Din't even know that some esperanto words have asian etymology. OK. I wouldn't admit that esperanto is a european lang. because of its syntax and structure: prefixing and phonology. But as I have said, it's made to be universal. TO BE UNIVERSAL. not to be a national lang. OK. It just seems that choosing to sound european will help people who already speaks european lang. to adopt easily for most of the spoken langs are european.
brencaivan 6 months ago
@brencaivan I told you, it is NOT 'made to be universal'. That's what you tell yourself, but in reality most words are from european languages. And the syntax of one language like turkish is hardly representative for all asiatic languages, my poor deluded friend. And don't tell me that phonology is asiatic. That's bullshit. Then esperanto would be a tonal language. Anyway go have your petlanguage and delude yourself that you are somehow helping with something with it. Oh well.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Oh. Missed again. The phonology is european, not asiatic. hehe.
brencaivan 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Apesar de o Esperanto ter radicais vindos predominantemente de línguas europeias, a sua morfologia é totalmente oriental, aglutinante, como o japonês e o vietnamita. Esperanto tem o corpo ocidental e a alma oriental, portanto é útil para todos os povos, ao contrário do inglês, por exemplo... Asiáticos conseguem muito bem conversar nessa língua, sem dificuldades em pronúncia, como ocorre no inglês, que só para começar a vogal 'a' possui 12 sons diferentes.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Although the Esperanto has radicals come predominantly from European languages, its morphology is entirely Western, is binder, such as Japanese and Vietnamese. Esperanto has the body East and soul West, so it is useful to all people, unlike the English, for example... Asians can speak that language very well, no difficulties in pronunciation, unlike what occurs in English, which only the vowel 'a' has 12 different sounds.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen Rrriiiight - and now, please talk like a normal human being? I'm not talking about morphology or whatever but rather what the heck you mean with "binder". If people wouldn't use the worst possible way to learn a language, every god damned point about pronounciation would be irrelevant. And then there are those who don't WANT to learn a langauge - and those won't learn a fictional language either, no matter how simple it is.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria binder -> agglutinative.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen Anway, as I said it before: Take your stupid petlanguage - but I laugh at people learning it. Seems you serioudly think you are doing someone a favour with it - well, time to meet reality: You are not. You are not helping anyone with it, you are not chaaanging the world with it, and so on. Know why? Because no one CARES wether the worldlanguage changes. it is a change over many generations. At one point the books change, and that's it. Noone cares, really.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
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Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Valvallaria So what do you speak? You just try to invalidate the Esperanto language by its nature planned? Oh! Try to use more convincing arguments. Maybe with your way of being egocentric, unable to realize that thousands of cultures are dying each year due to linguistic imperialism. For this, it is necessary to a neutral language that unites all people under a democratic language foundation. But you want people to know about unity? Discrimination, discrimination ...
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen Let's see, I speak German, English, Lowgerman (the real one not just a dialect) and quite decent welsh. *I* are actually doing something for those cultures by learning their languages - what are you doing? Oh riiiighhht you learn an invented one that.. has nothing to do with... well anything in any land.. so... how does that help? oh right. It does not. Any language sed internationally and to a large extend WILL influence the other languages. Gte over it,you logic is flawed.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Also I think your logic is flawed. OMG!
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen and where? Do you think, just because your mixlanguage isn't reeeaally spoken anywhere it won#t influence any other language? Well, then wake up from your dreamworld and welcome to reality. Exactly the same will happen, just with english of whever. First esperantowords will get stuck in daily use of teh media, then in then ormal language and.. ah wahtever. It's not worth the time. see you (Not)
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria I will not talk about it, which is exhausting for me in a language I do not feel comfortable.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen Poor you. Then maybe you shouldn't put so much energy into learning an invented language lawl
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Yes, I spend a lot of energy learning languagesinvented. And you spend a lot of energy leaving you dominate other cultures, especially American.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Gofzamen Lawl know what? Culture is not only a language - and wether the medium of transmission is an invented BS language or a real one does not matter. If another culture is dominating, then it also will be through any other language. That includes esperanto - or put differently: Esperanto will take the place of english and will damage every other culture just as much. You know, that is the result of communicating between cultures. its inevitable if you want a worldalnguage.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Only the Esperanto komunumo isn't mondregema like the anglalingvaj countries.
ghenulo 3 months ago
@Valvallaria BTW, Esperanto != Volapük.
ghenulo 3 months ago
@ghenulo I know? But, on the other hand, they are bothe the same nonsense...
Valvallaria 3 months ago
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brencaivan 6 months ago
@brencaivan Sooo what? And you think that a winning power will make theeffort to learn the language of the conquered? Poor deluded dude. They will say: Adapt our language and that's it. They hardly will say Oooooh well, we have 18% of the world population that speak our language and the possibility to strenhthen our position with our language - but nah, let's waste more money and teach everyone that other language.
Nope, ain't gonna happen.
Valvallaria 6 months ago
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brencaivan 6 months ago
@Valvallaria OH. you missed. I said "a universal language", not a naturally evolving language.
brencaivan 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Que língua você quer que falemos internacionalmente? O injusto inglês para todos os povos? Uma dominação completa de uma só cultura sobre outra. Esperanto tem sim uma cultura rica, transnacional, reune a cultura dos seus falantes, que é mundial. Inglês? Reune a cultura apenas de um ou poucos países. Mas se ainda você quer dizer que Esperanto não tem cultura, é melhor não ter do que consumir a cultura de outro povo. É completamente justo e democrático, ao contrário do seu pensamento.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
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Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Esperanto is completely fair and democratic, as opposed to your thinking.
Gofzamen 6 months ago
@Valvallaria Well, you're entitled to your opinion about Esperanto's cultural and aesthetic value, but the linguistic fact is that it is a living language, and has many more (fluent) speakers than several hundred natural languages (like Tsakonian, for example.) In any event, your criticism can equally well be aimed at Volapuk, which is what this video is about (and which claims that Esperanto has died.) Also, redicolous is not a word. Eble vi devas lerni anglan lingvon.
hailvishnu 4 months ago
@hailvishnu It is and so what? Even klingon has more speakers than many natural languages. Or na#vi. What deos that tell us...? Right. Nothing. Only that people are willing to put their time into learning yet another language (which is in itself already strange - "there are so many langauges, how do we communicate? I have an idea.. let's make anotehr one!" Txon lefpom sì eywa ngahu
Valvallaria 4 months ago
@hailvishnu Esperanto never died.
brencaivan 7 months ago
Esperanto? Morta? Tio estas volapukaĵo por mi! XP
JakeRamonePendragon 1 year ago
Ni parolas zumbian lingvon, ni parolas zumbian lingvon...! Brrrrr! Mi eĉ frostiĝas pro timo de morta-viva lingvo! XP
JakeRamonePendragon 1 year ago
But I know how to say the following in Volapük: The führer ordered the pantechnicon be placed in the névé of that ice floe.
warden9876 1 year ago
Putz, sério que o esperanto morreu? Nossa, como é que eu vou fazer agora? Passei tanto tempo falando essa língua e ela simplesmente já estava morta? Ai, minha Nossa Senhora...
dublistoeo 2 years ago
What is this Volapyook stuff? Is "ü" that hard to pronounce?
siderespector 2 years ago
Is this a joke? Volapuk was pretty much flattened by esperanto (indeed it paved the way for it). I can only hope that Fr. Schleyer's canonization comes through.
hurricaneomega 2 years ago
Si on dikte, ke Esperanto ha morta, on simplim non ha/konosa/usa li interete. Es multi idiomes international, e sal, til es persones, keles voli usa e propaga lus. Disdi es li die del lingues - sertim anke li lingues international. Salutes a omnes linguistes e konlangeres!
GEDANUS6 2 years ago
Kiam Espersnto aperis en la 19-a jarcento, ĝi efektive mortigis Volapauk. La Asocio de Volapuk ŝanĝis ĝian fokuson al la nova lingvo. Esperanto travivis, Volapuk pli malpli malaperis.
69UM24OSU12 2 years ago 3
Sed Esperanto ne estis kaj ne estos tiel sukcesa kiel Volapük estis ! Lingve Volapük estas plej bona konstruita ol Esperanto. Mi volas Volapükon!
Valodnieks 2 years ago
Cxu Esperanto mortis?
Do, mi estas ia spirito!!!
Booooooooooo!!!!
sebsoa 3 years ago 14
Kaj cxu Vulapük estas nova solvo?
Vulapük estas pli malnova, ol Esperanto!
TomSFox 3 years ago
Bah! Volapük vedon pük lifik! =)
amoleman 2 years ago
@sebsoa
ne, esperanto ne mortis ;)
kaj ne devos morti!
esperanto´stas l´plej bona lingvo.
deimuader 11 months ago
Acontece, senhores, que isto é uma reportagem dum programa humorístico chamado EuroTrash. Ou seja, quando eles disseram que o Esperanto morreu, era pra ser uma piada.
Augustivano2 3 years ago 2
Não senhor CesarDorneles. O Volapuko tem uma gramática simples, é a planificação das classes gramaticais que ele não possui, e por isso é mais complexo.
Agora, o vídeo leva nota 0 (zero) porque diz que "um mundo, um idioma, morreu como Esperanto". Morreu coisa nenhuma. Sou falante de Esperanto e tenho 52 contatos ao redor do mundo, fora os falantes da minha cidade.
jackreneee 3 years ago 7
Mas o Volapuke parece ser um idioma difícil de se falar. O Esperanto deve ser bem mais fácil.
chrisjabur 3 years ago 4
Ah sem dúvida chrisjabur. Eu falo esperanto mesmo, mas por uma curiosidade histórica eu dei uma olhada no Volapuque, e realmente a parte de vocabulário do Volapuque é mal formulada.
jackreneee 2 years ago
É interessante observar que o volapuque acabou fracassando por ter uma gramática extremamente complicada. De qualquer forma, merece nosso respeito no sentido de que foi uma tentativa, dentre as muitas que tivemos, para se criar uma língua planejada para a comunicação internacional. A idéia era boa e foi aperfeiçoada no esperanto, que conseguiu tornar-se uma língua efetivamente viva e com cultura própria.
CesarDorneles 3 years ago 3