Obama's Plan for Health Care Reform - Christina Romer

[turpincody]

find more money. give me more more more more money, yes yes please more money. for ummm oh i know healthcare and um living and um deading and um we'll save your soul too. oh we have gold for free oh but wait theres more folks we'll also talk in circles so you cant understand wtf is going on or who is doing it. yay

[TheNewMusicNetwork]

she's a lying sack of crap. jobs are going away. 

[e01snell]

It "doesn't score" because healthcare reform is going to cost 2 trillion $ while our economy is in one of the most devestating recessions in US history and the US deficit growing by trillions of dollars every year. Obama can't even explain the bill and neither can Romer, who's speech made no sense at all. All this is doing is digging our country into a bigger hole.

[Wilone328]

Your thoughts have to be spoken!!! Do you back Barak's health care legislation? Visit my profile to learn precisely why Americans thoughts matters !!!

[jemjean]

If the U.S. has the best medical system in the world, then why can't I receive medical treatment for my condition? Why am I begging private organizations like NORD for money in order to have them handle my copays and pray they have the funding? I am disabled, making $8000 a year and would like to work part time. No. Why? Because my copay is $2000 a year and that's if the insurance company and providers all line up just right with the stars. Screw this system. It stinks.

[undermyvoodoo22]

I do not have healthcare coverage -not because I can't afford it. I'm young, healthy and am making an economic decision to pay towards an education which will get me a job WITH HEALTH BENEFITS. I have choice and I have incentive. Why would they try to take that away from me?

I think it's wrong to take away my right to choose whether I need healthcare or not and whether I could like to pay for it or not.

[mpgenaw]

What income limitations will be set, congress is useless they only help themselves. I want a pay raise, while the economy is sinking.

[wylear]

The US is the richest nation on Earth, yet millions of people don't have health care insurance. If your mother, or grandmother, sister, brother, husband or wife was sick and dying and you knew that the medicine or treatment to save them exists but that you just can't afford it, how would you feel?

[hellotommy]

The US has the best health-care in the world, best modern treatments in medicine and surgeries. Canada's HC system is on the verge of "imploding". The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this countrys health-care system is sick. Canada is in the process of switching back to Private Care.

File under: ObamaCare of the Future.

*sigh*

[Orlando416]

Says who? Do you live in Canada? Cause I do. I have three Family Doctors and i get to choose i which one i want any time and it cost me absolutely nothing. I have a friend who recently had a Motorcycle accident and underwent a number Major Surgeries, hes fully recovered now and it cost him absolutely nothing. All you need is your OHIP period!

[hellotommy]

Dr. Anne Doig, the incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association, said her countrys health care system is sick and imploding, the Canadian Press reported.

Do you think you might listen to her? We all agree the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize, she said.

Canada is returning to private care.

[hellotommy]

Conservatives Now Outnumber Liberals in All 50 States, Says Gallup Poll

Monday, August 17, 2009

Palin spoke out about the death panels and Obama took them out. Reagan Conservatives believe the Government option must be removed from healthcare reform or all roads lead to Socialism, Sarah Palin is an honorable, honest voice for real America. Conservatives are deep considerate thinkers from all walks of American life, the shallow, narrow minded selfish liberal ideology is sinking w/ Socialism.

[Oopaack]

There never were any death panels. It's impossible to take out that which was never in there.

Thanks but you can keep the misinformation to yourself.

There is depth of thought on both sides of the argument, but there is no room for the misinformation thats out there.

And the Managed care that Palin called Death Panels is still part of the legislation.

And stop hiding behind the word socialism, it looks weak.

[hellotommy]

Obama and the Socialist takover

You want "Single Payer" ? The US Government has never produced a successful entitlement ever, do you think it will get this complex life or death issue right,

NO GOVERNMENT OPTION

I suggest that the White House and all members of Congress hold some kind of press conference or major event and have an official signup with the new health plan.

That way, Americans can all see for themselves that the plan is good for EVERYBODY!

I hope you like my idea

[augoustinos]

Never having produced it does not mean it cannot work.

When you consider other government actions, In fact, apparently fire departments are working pretty well, just like police.

We should realise here that there is a lot of pressure from the lobbies NOT to change something that has been making the health insurance industry rich over the last two years. Wake up, people and defend your interests! French would destitute their government if they removed the public heatlh funding!

[videoman1970]

iF YOU OR SOMEONE YOU KNOW IS SICK AND IN NEED OF HEALTH CARE AND CANNOT AFFORD:::::::::::::::::::::::

YOU WILL NOT CARE IF SOCIALISM OR CAPITALISM HELPS YOU OUT:

THE COLD WAR IS OVER:::::::::::: I DO NOT BELIEVE THE EVIL COMMUNISTS THAT ONCE ROMED THIS EARTH ARE INTERESTED IN OUR POLUTED COUNTRY:

PEOPLE ARE ILL AND IN NEED:::::::::

THANKS TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION WE ARE FINALLY GETTING OFF OUR ASSES AND ADDRESSING REAL PROBLEMS!!!

[smoggyben]

A national health service is a very good thing. However the issue of not getting treatment in good time is being raised as an issue. This problem in the UK is known as the post code lottery and without this in my opinion, the NHS would be perfect. I dont need to pay for insurance and I can rest easy knowing that if I ever fall ill, I am always entitled to treatment. Your government is there to look after you, dont ignore them.

[augoustinos]

The NHS is excellent, despite the "Postcode Lottery". As a student in the UK for a year, I got ALL my medical needs covered, with appointments taken within 24 hours and one emergency situation I had responded to within 10 minutes. Everyone! I would strongly suggest you call a friend in the UK, and ask them how it is before condemning something people defending their profits call socialism. Next thing you know, they'll call it terrorism. Oh, they've already had: Death panels they said it was!

[stylophobia]

"Don`t hold out your hand to government"Fine if you`re fit and healthy. But a lot of people are not and it`s not their fault. I and millions of other Brits

know that you have to help your neighbour-neighbour-note the spelling -if they`re dying. You DON`T LOOK AT THEIR WALLET FIRST !

[allgoo19]

hellotommy: "Today you go,,"

Today you go to a doctor, you are diagnosed with a serious illness. Next thing you know, the insurance company agent comes in. He tells you that he found a pre-existing condition in your record that you didn't even know and your policy will be terminated and you won't get a treatment.

He tells you that it's a free country. You are free to choose one of two, pay out of your pocket or die.

[hellotommy]

You will not here the dems breath a word of truth because power is the cure. They want to control the masses, Teddy Roosevelt first proposed national health insurance in 1912, FDR proposed it again in the 1930s. Harry Truman proposed it again in the 1940s. They've been waiting along time for this progressive power holy grail issue, healthcare is the way to pure Socialism, Reagan was warning of this as far back as the 60s.

[deafflylii1]

Poverty of thought. Poverty of ambition. How pathetic someone would not want FREE health care at the point of access. The UK is way beyond oyur horrid, vulgar system. Socialism!!!! Pathetic! Mickey Mouse politics of the good old USA.

[allgoo19]

hellotommy: "You will not here.."

What's wrong with socialism, please explain.

Do you think the people in German, UK, Japan, France, Canada, Sweden, Norway, Taiwan are all complaining about socialism? If so, please show your proof.

Countries above mentioned don't have people go bankrupt because of medical bills, but there are many in US. Next could be you.

[hellotommy]

Socialism: You have two cows. The government takes one of your cows and gives it to your neighbor. You're both forced to join a cooperative where you have to teach your neighbor how to take care of his cow.

The government that governs least governs best"...right?

Americans don't want handouts, we are different, that is why the world looks at us different. Get a job and contribute to society, that is how to achieve the American dream, don't hold out your hand to Government.

[deafflylii1]

You know nothing of the systm involved. All contribute for the greater good of the whole country in taxes. NOT vulgar and OTT insurance. Our system of care puts yours to shame, ask any lucky Americans who got ill in the UK. Handouts! Why not actually find out the facts. Obama just hates the inequality in a backward society.

[hellotommy]

To dems and Obama: Fix Medicare and Medicaid (what you are responsible for today) and then maybe we can trust you with the entire system. It is arrogance beyond belief that you believe you can change something so important, so complex, and so huge all at once. Take this in steps, steps that we can understand.

"A liberal is someone who feels a great debt to his fellow man, which debt he proposes to pay off with your money."

NO PUBLIC OPTION

[galbraithem]

Right because jobs are so easy to come by here in the USA!

[allgoo19]

hellotommy: "Socialism: You have.."

We have one huge cow right now, called private health care providers, spends $40 billion to kill the health care reform bill, pay $1 billion as a stock option to the CEO beside $3.2 million and it's just one company.

Cow demands average 13% premium increase each year.

[augoustinos]

Nothing at all! The system works perfectly! What is fun is how "Fear of Socialism" is so deeply ingrained in the American culture that they will actually fight reform that would defend their own interest... George Orwell, where are you?

[galbraithem]

Uhm yeah and Reagan also promoted smoking cigarettes as well.

[wintercat2]

US government is as stupid as hell, its so easy to get universal health care. 1) Put a .50 cent per gallon tax on gas 2) Tax the price of cigarettes by $1.00 per pack now, then .25 cents every year for 10 more years. 3) Tax alcohol, $1.00 per 26 oz - $1.00 case of 24 beer. All this will bring in a few hundred billion in tax money for health care each year. Gas, cigs, boze would still be cheap Here in Canada Gas $4.50 gallon Cigs $12.00 per pack Beer $36.00 per 24 Health care - FREE

[allgoo19]

wintercat2: "US government is as .."

It's all good idea and everything but...

All 3 you mentioned have big lobbying power. Additionally, even if the government comes up with the money above, there's another challenge and biggest one.

The insurance industry. They are not going to let their business go down even if the government tells them they are not needed any more.

[95678Bob]

The drug and insurance companies will pay anyone to say anything. I'm for taxing the heck out of the profits of the insurance and drug companies like we used to do when health care was affordable. Let's tax their profits. Those companies get tax breaks right now. Why? Tax them, not us. United We Stand, Divided We Fall.

[livegems]

It is kind of amazing some people think health costs are like buying a car or any other commercial proposition (eg: all the insurance co-sponsored posts on Youtube, by varying "people"). You can plan to buy a car or a house: it's your own responsibility and your money allocation--but you can't plan a medical affliction. Not the same. I simply note one anti-health plan person on Ytube had her two fave videos as a) a revolver shooting into a tank, and b) a clip of Milton F'man on "Greed".Fo real.

[galpickny]

good point. for some reason, people don't get that you cannot plan for a medical emergency like you plan to make other major purchases. health care is not a privilege, it is a right. People will get sick and/or injured, and people will die. Everyone should have health care. Everyone! And it's a shame that when i get sick, I have to make a choice, get a $300 bill for visiting the emergency room or just tuff it out and hope it passes. WKOSIS? wat kind is sh** is that?

[galpickny]

I'm a single mom of 3, I work hard, I'm not on any kind of gov't assistance, no welfare, no medicaid, no nothing. I pay taxes, have health insurance through my job, but scared to go to the doctor for fear of going into debt.

[83coffees]

As a Canadian, I can't believe that someone doesn't do something about the insane profits these insurance companies make off people dying; the less people they treat the more they make.  People shouldn't lose their house or not send their kids to college b/c they get cancer, or get hurt randomly. These anti-socialist rants are crazy. Nobody tells me what to do with my healthcare, and I recieve excellent care. Health care is a right, and nobody should make money off of it, period.

[sandwichtube]

Axe the middle man that makes a profit for no reason.

[thesparitan]

i hate to have to tell people things i known when i was in 11th grade. start reading and get infomed for your country for the men that die for at least

[thesparitan]

by the way healthcare industry is spending 1 million dollars a DAY to stop obama plan.  i wonder why

[thesparitan]

look the cost right now. I know you have heard that right now we pay twice as much as any other nation on earth. and our defense budget is twice as much as the whole world combined. so look we can do this and on the cheap.

if we dont change, will ruin us. private healthcare doesnt work and never worked. why do you think that no nation has ever won a war using mercenaries. because only that government can fight wars. some things private cant do this is one of them

[themunkyful]

When are these people in government going to realize I am sick and tired of having their jack boots on my neck.

[thesparitan]

you dont have a choice. i dont care what you believe or think. as long as you would like to see this nation not be destroyed by the raise cost of healthcare you have to support single payer or sometime of government plan. you dont have a choice there is no real debate . we cant survive the way we are right now and private industry cant do it. you need a better plan. thats the end of the story on this one

[themunkyful]

I will always have a choice. I choose to live free. You choose to live like a sheep hoping for tablescraps from a governement that doesn't give a crap about you. I feel sorry for you. I don't know where things went wrong in your life to choose such a miserable existence and be a miserable critter but I guess that's your choice as well.

[thesparitan]

im i dont like your tone or the name calling i should info you that im 24 and have been fighting for healthcare reform for 10 years. i know what im talking about thank you very much

further more people who attack others as irrationally as you did are not mentally sound you are aware of this. but you what your going to do

i know people like you your going to call me a name and your going to get pissed

becuase you know im right and your wrong and you cant take it can you

[themunkyful]

I'm not name calling just telling it exactly how it is. You think that the government is going to fix all of your problems and this makes you deluded. I'm not pissed nor do I really care about about someone who is going to wave the crybaby flag when I point out the stark naked truth to them. Healthcare under the government will only make things even worse, THAT is right. You won't be able to take that either, I guess you'll roll over and die because you will have NO CHOICE!

[thesparitan]

im deluded you dont know a dam thing about what your talking about if you did you would know and read what i have said no your just another dumbass who thinks he knows but doesnt know shit

you are a dumbass and if you think he made any points worth the shit in your ears your retarded

one days soon i hope you find out who wrong you are muther fucker

and you want to talk shit to me ask and i'll give you my adress and we can talk it over like

PUSSY

[themunkyful]

Yup I'm 42 fought in the Gulf War with 1/11th Marines. You still want my address because you don't scare me. Go ahead and send me a PM I'll meet with you anytime because you nothing more than a keyboard punk.

[thesparitan]

im name calling COWARD

yeah your a coward you know how i know i know i can tell i see your type all the time

retards think they have it figued out but you dont your a moron in the desguise of a asshole

read the economic reports read something that contradicts you for once and see if your beliefs hold up bbut you wont

just like you would never say that shit to me face punk ass coward

[TheLostRealist1985]

wow. that is probably the most blatantly ignorant statement that I have read in a while.

"Healthcare under the government will only make things even worse"

Yes, tell that to the members of congress, the military, veterans, and the elderly who receive health care THROUGH THE GOVERNMENT and love it.

[themunkyful]

I takes me 2 months to get an appointment to get a hearing test done at my local VA. It takes me 1 day to get one through my private insurance. Oh yea the government plan is so much better. Your a moron!

[librophile]

themunkyful...YOU'RE A 100% FRAUD !!

Youtube has several videos from REAL AUTHENTIC US VETERANS who speak out in favor of their Public Government run VA HEALTH PLAN coverage.

THEY LOVE IT !!

[themunkyful]

5 years active duty US Marines "A" battery 1/12 and 1/11 Gulf War thats my record of service and you call me a fraud?

Tell me what branch of service and unit you serve your country with and how much combat have you done?

Reading books is great I love it too but just so you understand it is ONLY theory until you get out in the real world and experience reality. I think the docs at the VA are outstanding but my biggest complaint is the damn wait times. Which can be months.

[librophile]

themunkyful...YA!! I agree. You're full of it.

With your fraudulent claim ... you disgrace our true valiant US VETS who love their Government run Public VA HEALTH CARE.

[themunkyful]

Librophile I still didn't hear about all the combat and the military service you have done, in spite of using veterans like me to back your crap up... Go eat a dick!

[librophile]

I served 5 years as an officer. That's all you will get from me.

Sorry, unlike you ... I am NOT into "dick eating" ... even though I will defend your right to do so.

Whatever floats your boat and melts your butter, my moronic friend.

[TheLostRealist1985]

Your claim is definitely a deviation from the general veteran consensus. I'm not saying that you're not telling the truth, but it would seem that if your story is true, it is certainly not typical.

[themunkyful]

It's more of the norm really. Also VA is a benefit that is earned and supported within the confines of the US Constitution by folks who are willing to put their lives on the line and some lose it all. I don't see how we could possibly afford to then extend an EARNED benefit to the rest of the population the other 99% who didn't serve and don't currently qualify. GAO which works directly for congress has come up with astronomical figures 10.4 trillion for startup and 260 billion a year. Who pays

[themunkyful]

The other thing that really bothers me is after reading the health bill is mandatory fines if you don't sign up $2000.00 that's BS! And then not being able to get private insurance even if you wanted too if you switch jobs. So that's leaves all of us stuck with a crappy government insurance and NO OTHER CHOICE. That right there is about as unamerican as you can get. Oh and lets take 600 billion from medicare, that's got the elderly felling all kinds of warm and fuzzy. They are furious!

[librophile]

themunkyful...The more I read your vitriolic posts, the more I realize that you are nothing more than a right-winger who spread lies, fear & smear.

Sorry, but nobody believes your rant. Unlike the uneducated brainwashed FoxNews viewers ... some of us do have a brain to think with.

[themunkyful]

ATTENTION EVERYONE!

If you state facts that come right out of the health care bill word for word as I did above. You are a right-winger who spread lies, fear & smear.

If you state official Government Accounting Office estimates on the cost of the health care bill as printed in the NY Times and Washington Post. You are a right-winger who spread lies, fear & smear.

If you happen to disagree with any personal attacks and slanders of OFFICER librophile. You get more slander and NO FACTS!

[GreatOneFan]

Bullshit - What Obamacare WILL result in -

Higher taxes (not on just the rich either, COUNT ON IT)

Massive bureaucracy - no thanks

Will make the DMV look like a model of efficiency

Bankrupt the country

Long waits for care. If you have a life-threatening illness, too bad. It's not your turn. Just go off and die.

[thesparitan]

we have more bureaucracy then anyother nation with universal government healthcare

[GreatOneFan]

True, we have a lot of bureaucracy. But knowing how Washington works, I believe this bureaucracy is going to explode ten-fold with the advent of this program. I agree reform is necessary, but not this way. Tort, medical and insurance reforms are what's needed, not the monstrosity being currently proposed. What's more, the CBO stated it wouldn't save much money in comparison with the trillions it would take to fund this program.

[thesparitan]

private healthcare is going to bankrupt us not the government ones. and we can pay for healthcare by lowering our defense spending which i should tell you is twice as much as all other countries in the world combined

[GreatOneFan]

Like I said, I believe medical, tort and insurance reforms are the way to go. I've heard the argument about lowering defense spending in order to pay for this massive bill. I do not support that. Our military is the best in the world, and I wish to keep it that way.

[thesparitan]

did you know we canceled the f 22 raptor you know why because the pentagon says they think its sucks the army hates it the air force hates it. it cant fly in the rain. you know who many we have right now $65 billion and counting to produce 187 aircraft. that will never be used unless we are fighting the deceptacons

and read about dragon armor i want you to read about dragon armor

[GreatOneFan]

I know there is waste in military spending. There's waste in every program. However, I will not sacrifice slashing the military to provide insurance for people who've opted not to have it in the first place and those who are not citizens of this country.

[thesparitan]

EXCUSE ME

not opted to have it

i want everyone to read what you said im posting this everywhere

see this is the type of person that is against healthcare you want to be like this person.

he wants you not to have healthcare for you and your family

YOU ARE SICK stop talking to me

IM FUCKING DYING IM FUCKING DYING I HAVE FSGS A KIDNEY DESEASE IM FUCKING DYING SO I CARE ABOUT HEALTHCARE YOU FUCKER

[GreatOneFan]

I thought you were a civil person. I see you are not. I am sorry you are in that predicament, but that massive monstrosity of a bill is not the answer. I suspect you are the kind of person who tattles to the White House on healthcare. If so, all well and good. By the way, I do not care for your threats. I have the right to my opinion, that is, unless Obama and his thugs take it away.

[thesparitan]

CIVIL PERSON IM FUCKING DYING HERE

fuck you

i hope to god you die of a disease one day and cant get healthcare

you are a sick man not me.

when your piss gets foamy be sure not to try your doctor if you do they will cancel you

thats a sign of doom

[thesparitan]

you will get sick and when you do i want my words to haunt you in your last terrible days

[GreatOneFan]

Again, I'm sorry you are dying. No one wishes you to die. But I do not believe in this bill, and I have the right to my opinion, as you do to yours.

[cheburashka1326]

They key words in her speech "if we could". It is an idiotic approach to state obvious things like "if we could lower the cost and improve quality .. our economy would greatly benefit...". There is no mentioning of tax burden, the bureaucracy, the inability of government to manage the programs it already has.

[thesparitan]

look up medicare look up the VA. ask those people getting government insurance and govt care if they want us to get ride of it

[cheburashka1326]

First of all if you asking for stats - I have none at hand. VA users and doctors I did talk to are quite happy with that system. Medicare I only hear 3rd party opinions from what I understand it is suboptimal but provide basic medical needs. The doctors I talked to prefer not to deal with medicare due to bureaucracy and pricing. I suspect both system users would like to keep it. What is your point?

[thesparitan]

those are both government funded and administrated systems and the VA is government ran totally like the British NHS so the government can run healthcare and do it cheaper and better

should we get ride of them just becuase they are government and if not shouldnt we give them to every american

[cheburashka1326]

First of all from what I understand VA system is not cheaper. Second of all VA is system is for people who risked and damaged their health in service of our country. I doubt it has economic benefit , but we owe these people healthcare. Third point is that according to Obama medicare costs are extremely high and they need to be fixed. Fifth - medicare is not the service I would like for myself due to quality. And finally medicare is for needy - we better provide it if we do not want riots.

[thesparitan]

we are all needy do you know who many americas go bankrupt. 14,000going bankrupt WEEKLY. you know what weekly means. it means that this economy is being destroyed by our current healthcare system. there's your argument

and more americans are going to loss there healthcare in the coming years if we dont do something now

[cheburashka1326]

It is very said, even emotional. So lets bail out financially irresponsible people who took loans they could not afford and drove housing prices through the roof. Is that the deal? Let me guess it just %5 (or 10 or 20) tax increase for rest of us so those people can live happily ever after. In my opinion claims like "more americans are going to loss there healthcare" need to be backed up by facts, not emotions.

[cheburashka1326]

Let me rephrase my question what does any of it has to do with economic benefit being "sold" in this speech? How is taking additional trillion, or two in debt could be considered economic benefit? Is it not the very small businesses, mentioned in speech, who will have to peak up the bill? When I deal with money I prefer facts , not emotions.

[thesparitan]

actually its on facts and savings that make the best arguments, dont take my word for it. go read nobel winner paul krugman on single payer health. these money getting ride of a system that is bankrupting us now. and the reasons medicare is going up in cost is because all healthcare in the country is going up in cost infact healthcare is riasing slower then the rest of the private healthcare industry

[cheburashka1326]

Again according Krugman himself without "extensive cost-benefit analysis" we cannot make rational decision. What outraged me about the clip is that it is bunch of slogans without any supporting numbers. We assume that government can do better, but existing programs tell us otherwise. We assume that existing system could be improved by government bureaucrats. We assume that there is some kind of economic benefit. And finally there hardly a mention of WHO IS GOING TO PAY for it?

[wethepeopleUSA2012]

2 Videos on Youtube to watch: 1) The Health Care Bill: What they DON'T want you to know!

2) wethepeopleUSA2012 (see the video posted there)

[HEALTHEWORLD2012]

The trainings in which do no have to necessarily have to be interconnected. Example: one participant had attended, Medical Assisting school ($10,000), Cosmetology, and been in various on the job training programs. Again, there are free services that already exist to support disadvantged groups, they should be audited then potentially expanded to serve those have been directly impacted by layoff . Jobs First. Obamcare is rhetoric that will drive the economy deeper into a pit. Jobs First.

[HEALTHEWORLD2012]

Does anyone realize that welfare programs sometimes allow a participant to take several different job trainings. Alot of these program range anywhere from hundreds to thousands of dollars. I have been in workforce development for almost 10 years and the results for each program that I've worked for have been hit and miss. I mention to illustrate the point that government has not been proven effective in properly allocating and tracking dollars. This massive Health Initiative will be costly.

[joshtiger30]

Do we all realize why he wants this passed before the August recess? He knows if these congressmen go home they may be flogged in the streets by those opposed to this monstrosity. If it's passed he won't care if that happens (the flogging) as his stupid bill will already be passed. Call, write, email your congressmen NOW. We have to stop this insanity.

[memama2]

joshtiger....the Obama DEATH...er Health Care Plan has a "part 2" to it.......he is gonna PUT every single illegal onto it to then allow them to = REGISTER as Citizens 12 million + .....this will be the group of ~drones ~ he needs to BOOST him into office for 4 more years. Al Frakkens election PROVED that Acorn and dumb dims can and will CHEAT to get into CONTROL! Obama will do the same SOON! "Health Care" reform is rationed care. Rambo Emanuels Doc Brother stated old people =forget about em!

[prschuster]

I want one of those, who like to get on their antigovernment soap box, to tell me a better way to ensure health care coverage for those 46 million uninsured without a public option. The private companies have had their chance and they've failed miserably at it so far. I have insurance and I can't get them to pay up, and taking them to court would cost more than what they already owe me. How can anyone be so naive as to trust private companies to act in the public interest?

[ndizindoto]

Why don't you answer this question: If government can't get medicaid medicare to work what in the hell makes you think that they can get an even bigger program to work? Let's see them fix that first and they will have my blessing. When the government doesn't pay your bills, or provide the proper care you won't be even allowed to sue them. There may not be a way to insure, feed , and house everyone. Charities do a good job of providing fundamental necessities. HCare is not a right!

[prschuster]

"HCare is not a right!"

That does it. I'm thinking of leaving this neoconation and moving to a civilized country where they understand the meaning of "the common good". They have turned America into a nation where everyone thinks they can do everything alone by themselves. Get a hammer & boards and build your own house. Get a knife and give yourself major surgery. Who needs gov't anyway. Everyone can be their own boss and defend their own territory like apes in the jungle. Who needs gov't?

[ndizindoto]

What happened to personal responsibility? I was on my own at 17 and never asked for a handout. Time for people to take care of themselves the way nature intended. Now quit whining and buck up.

[prschuster]

"Time for people to take care of themselves the way nature intended. Now quit whining and buck up."

Fine tough guy. You can opt to heal yourself if you get a heart attack or break a leg. Who needs expensive hospital care anyway? Real men never get sick.

[ndizindoto]

No I'll just use my health care plan that I currently have THAT I PAY THE PREMIUM ON for CATASTROPHIC LOSS (that's what my insurance is for). You want insurance GO FREAKIN PAY FOR IT. Damn if everybody gets free healthcare then I WANT IT TOO BUT THEN WHO"S GONNA PAY FOR IT?????

[prschuster]

Well, I guess I'm in the market for an affordable plan for a 61 year old with previous heart problems who finds himself out of work in the middle of a recession. But I'm with AARP and they might give me some leads. You might be right. There may be something out there I can afford. I'm not really for totslly public system - just a way to make accessible care available without the abuses and scams. Can't there be a bipartisan effort?

[ndizindoto]

2. Gov't should get after insurance companies to fulfill obligations on paying claims properly - sort of an 'IRS collectors' for insurance - we all know how good the gov't is at getting money out of people. 3. Illegals walk into have a baby delivered and get it done 100% FREE - for them. It costs the taxpayers, and it happens more than you can imagine. Tighten our borders and send illegals home. Both parties failed miserably on illegal immigration. At your expense.

[prschuster]

"Gov't should get after insurance companies to fulfill obligations on paying claims properly" ndizindoto

Exactly... If there were some kind of public review board to take your complaints to it would help alot.

[ndizindoto]

Yup, they need to get the insurance companies to pay what they are supposed to pay instead of weaseling out of their obligation.

[ndizindoto]

Yes! Let's look at what really drives up the costs. 1. Lawyers - because they drive up malpractice premiums costs (to the point that obstetricians in NV were leaving in droves). Obama is a lawyer, against a cap for lawsuits, he won't disappoint fellow lawyers. He claims that Doc's do unnecessary tests yet the reason they do them is that lawyers will sue them if they don't. They work on the emotions of a jury who may realize the doc wasn't wrong but "the MPractice ins will cover it, liable!".

[joeydline1]

socialism

[dddiegopan]

OMG the chair of an economic adviser of policy for the president is Not an economist. the arrogance of this administration is stagering, she also said that it would cost more , and will make it better for some as it would make service faster :-(

[artformeandyou]

New sources of revenue? You mean raise taxes on 'rich' people?

[Tabooga65]

Health Care reform? The lie is it isn't reform. It is just old fashion Marxism. But Nobody is willing to tell the truth about This admin.

[mattblackcat]

Your caps key is malfunction as is your prejudice circuit.

[mattblackcat]

Well put???? It is nothing more than another baseless assertion with nothing to back it up.

[mattblackcat]

And who ever down thumbed that response is a moron.

[GBS990]

Government health care - you will die sooner, no appeal.

The other contries that have gone social, people die younger, it's a fact.

[freesk8]

Well put!

[mattblackcat]

The UK with a national health service - currently home to worlds oldest man!

FACT!

[freesk8]

Anecdotal.

Stats at the extremes are "noisy."

World's tallest man is Chinese, even though the Chinese are shorter, on average than Americans.

People with breast and colon cancer do not live as long in GB than they do in the US. Averages like these are more powerful stats than are anecdotal bits like your oldest man.

[mattblackcat]

You still have not provided any HARD facts or ANY statistical data.

All you are providing is spreading hearsay and FUD

[freesk8]

You've not provided any stats or references either.

Pot calling kettle black.

[mattblackcat]

You are the one making the claims - the burden of proof lies with you.

Since you have presented nothing in support of your claim I can only surmise you have a natural bias based on ignorance and are pulling these claims and statements from your ass.

[freesk8]

Sorry, dude, in a debate, the status quo always has presumption. Those who want to make a change to the system have the burden of proof.

You propose the radical change of going from a semi-free/semi-regulated market in health care to a government monopoly.

The burden of proof is on you.

Where are your stats?

[mattblackcat]

I am not proposing the change - and you are the one making claims against a system you fear and so clearly do not understand or appreciate.

You are as ignorant as you are evasive.

I repeat again - back up your claims concerning cancer survival rates.

[freesk8]

Yes you are proposing the change.

In the US, we have about 50% socialized and 50% private health care.

YOU propose a government monopoly.

This is the change, so the burden of proof is on you.

But google "cancer survival rates britain" and find the article in the Daily Mail in March of 2009 showing that cancer survival rates are worse in Britain. Cause: not enough resources which restrict care and lengthen wait-times for service.

[mattblackcat]

Where did I propse such this?

PS The Daily Mail is extreme biased right wing alarmist newspaper and is 'affectionatly' known in the UK as 'The Daily Hate Mail'

It is NOT a valid source for factual information.

In all countries that have a national health service you are still free to take out private medical health care - there is no monopoly.

And you are still mainting this and failing to justify your claims - you clearly have no idea what you are talking about. You are an ignorant retard.

[freesk8]

In Canada in 2006, Alberta began to allow people to pay cash for some non-emergency care.

Before that it was prohibited in Canada.

If you wanted something that was not covered by the govt monopoly, you had to leave the country. Many Canadians come to the US every year.

Last year, one of my Canadian relatives asked me to put up a friend who was coming here for leukemia treatment.

But she died first.

The govt tries to prevent free choice.

Why do you keep responding to me if I am a "retard?"

[mattblackcat]

Yet again all you can do is spout anecdotal evidence and fallacious arguments.

"The govt tries to prevent free choice."

Again a baseless assertion - try reading up on positive and negative liberty.

I respond to you so others can see what a complete moron you are and that like so many people who oppose universal healthcare you do so from a position of complete ignorance.

[liber8me]

actually the government pays the treatments that the doctors recommend. that is the main difference between insurance and public health care - the public system is there to help people - thats the only reason it exists. insurance agencies are there to just make money.

everyone pays taxes and if you get sick you're entitled to medical care. people view it as a basic human right.

[freesk8]

No, the doctors are constrained as to which treatments they can offer based on criteria that experts have set. But protocols change faster than the govt can keep up with. Each case is different. Criteria can't be detailed enough to yield sensible guidelines for each case. The result is that many are denied doctor recommended care by bureaucrats.

Those who pay taxes get a place in line. Some, who are politically connected can jump the line.

But in the US, anyone who can pay gets service.

[liber8me]

but in the US anyone who can pay gets service? and i guess who gives a shit about all the people who cannot pay.

our public health system allows the poor people to get medical treatment.

[mattblackcat]

You're still just spouting unsubstantiated anecdotal accounts and hearsay.

Your use of the term 'experts' shows a deep misunderstanding and distrust of authority.

The only assertion you make that can be agreed upon is the current system of healthcare in the US is reserved for those who can afford it.

The poor are disenfranchised due to the selfish attitude and lack of compassion in American society.

[freesk8]

I think the reason we got the Bush administration was that not enough people lived by the good ol liberal bumper sticker "Question Authority." Are you saying I should trust politicians MORE? Why?

No, there is a lot of private charity in the US, and this works better than a government monopoly. Doctors tend to be liberals. They don't turn people away at emergency rooms, most of which are run by private hospitals.

Just because the govt doesn't do it, doesn't mean it is not happening.

[ndizindoto]

Govrnment employees don't care how well they perform. That is why gov'nt run projects are so costly with poor results.

[mattblackcat]

Certain Americans will always oppose reform of healthcare as they still have the selfish 'Me and my own' attitude.

[freesk8]

How 'bout the "knowledge of what works and what doesn't work" attitude?

Government monopoly health care systems have longer wait times, shorter survival rates for many cancers, and no better access to care for the poor and disadvantaged classes than private systems.

I believe that government monopoly systems wind up hurting the poor they are trying to help.

You try to paint us as "selfish," but this is just ignoring our concerns.

[mattblackcat]

What works and doesn't work - clearly people dying and suffering because they cannot afford medical attention does not work.

Provide some statistics and data to back up these assertions about survival rates.

"and no better access to care for the poor and disadvantaged classes than private systems."

a National Health Care Service that is free at the point of delivery is available and open to ALL citizens, so your point here is just wrong.

You are painting yourself into your own corner.

[freesk8]

I want to get my health care on a free market.

Will the government use force, men with guns, to prevent me from getting what I want from providers who want to provide it?

Will they force me, via taxes, to support a system that I think will harm the poor in the long run?

Will you, as an individual, advocate that the government use force against me personally?

Will you use the government to use force against me?

[mattblackcat]

That is a rather ignorant, selfish and insular attitude.

[freesk8]

But you evade my argument?

Will YOU, mattblackcat, employ the agents of the government to use force, to draw their guns from their holsters and force me use the government monopoly health care system? Will you force me to pay for the health care of others via the government instead of via private charities as is my free choice?

If you are a fan of Gandhi and non-violence, I know you will renounce this action now.

By your silence I will assume that you agree to use force against me.

[mattblackcat]

I'm sorry was that an argument or a fallacious appeal to fear ?

[freesk8]

OK, I'll lay the argument out for you:

1) Using force against peaceful people is immoral.

2) Instituting socialized government monopoly health care would require using force to make some people use the system, and against others to pay for it.

3) Therefore instituting govt monopoly health care is immoral.

Will YOU advocate using force against ME personally?

I'm waiting (with baited breath) on your answer in order to determine what kind of person you are...

[mattblackcat]

Who is advocating using force? Other than the imps in your head and faux noise??

Social taxation is not an evil thing it spreads the cost and benefits for society amongst its members. We all pay taxes that support the education system even though we do not all have children attending school - we all pay for courts and policing even though we do not use these services directly we and society benefit from them being there when we need them.

[freesk8]

Why do you keep avoiding my question?

If you are advocating forcing me to use or pay for govt monopoly health care, then you are advocating using force against me.

Are you willing to hold the gun to my head? Or are you just going to get the govt to do it at your behest?

Schools should be privatized and we should pay tuition. I would not oppose full tuition vouchers for the poor.

Courts should be paid for by those who use them. Loser pays.

[mattblackcat]

You clearly are retarded if you view any taxation as extortion at gun point.

Your pre-occupation with casting this as a military conflict involving force and arms is alarmist and disturbing.

Also your views on justice are reprehensible.

"liberty and justice for all."

Not justice for only those who can afford it Might does not = right.

[freesk8]

I'm a Special Olympics coach. And you are really insensitive to call me "retarded."

The fact is that without the threat of violence, taxes would not be collected. Taxes are inherently violent. Sorry if this disturbs you, but the truth is often disturbing.

When you advocate higher taxes, you advocate making the first use of force.

Many people earned their money.

To take it from them is theft, even if a majority voted for it.

You are the one advocating using might for "right."

[mattblackcat]

Your occupation has no baring and is an obvious fallacious tactic to detract from your inability to justiy your claims.

Your confession that you see taxation as robbery/theft at gun pint confirms the opinion that you ARE a retard!

[mattblackcat]

Ps: down thumbing replies is cowardly.

[mattblackcat]

Thanks for proving my point

[GBS990]

To score, costs must be lowered, to lower costs, rationing will be mandated.

You will be told if you are going to get the procedure/medicine by a bureaucrat. You will pay for it, just not be consulted as to the outcome.

In other words, you will have no choice or say in your health care, period.

[therock27374]

Healthcare should be a human right!!!

[shamansays]

People should be accountable for their health, by exercising, eating right, and living a lifestyle that does not promote poor health. There are alternatives that do not include taxing people, that are healthy.

[Slug99]

The problem is that this model is first of all unsustainable and doesn't account for accidental injury. You're simply condemning a large portion of the population into a kind of social darwinism where weak people are simply left to die or go broke because they are too poor to pay for their illnesses.

[shamansays]

Isnt that what we have any way?For accidental injury there is a thing called "insurance".These healthcare proposals are not the solution, they sound nice and they might make you feel good, but the bottom line is , if you think a universal healthcare is the solution your just getting suckered into another scam by the government.

[liber8me]

the downside with insurance is that they're only there to see how much money they can save when they have to treat you - they're not there to help you.

believe me, public health is a good thing - we have it in australia.

[freesk8]

What do you do in Australia when the govt will not pay for the particular treatment your doctor recommends?

Do you fly somewhere else for treatment?

Do you get to chose your doctor and your insurance plan and premiums?

Are you forced to pay for the health care of others, even rich people?

There ain't no such thing as a free lunch.

Does the govt tend to provide high quality products or services? Or is the private sector better?

Just tryin' to liber8 you, as you request.

[shamansays]

I say we tax the churches! fuck all this nonsense, people lets stick it to church, they dont pay taxes on any thing!

[therock27374]

NO no no, don't tax the church, bad idea. Instead, make it so that the church may not call the fire fighters/ambulance as they do not pay taxes. Let them pray for that instead.

[danbblau]

most firefighters are volunteers, not paid-public servants, and ambulances already transport citizens in cases of emergency regardless of their ability to pay or their level of insurance.