Raymond Ibrahim vs. Hamid Dabashi part 2 of 7

[lyntonio]

So what Dabashi is saying is that non violence is an organic substrate of humanity that a few thinkers have uncovered ..but which religion is going to lend itself to it, its almost pointless saying that

[iiNDiTC]

MLK>>>GHANDI>>>HENRYDAVIDTHORE­AU>>>EMERSON>>>HAFEZ/SADI>>>

[desiguy55]

why this a hole mix up perverted serial killers with islamic terrorists?

[nashride]

Why does Professor Dabashi "debate" with such an amateur?

[seroMU]

@nashride i ask myself the same quetion :-) ibrahim has/shows an general lack of discrimination for an distinguish acadamic like dabashi...

[desiguy55]

@nashride the only amateur is this jackass dabashi.

[aghata18pehta81]

leonardo davinci was a great artist not because he was a christian but because he was an awesome artist.

but it seems to be important to emphasize that islamic poets and doctors and philosophers and so on were and are muslims?

i guess one of the greatest achievements of the west is in its separation of state and religion that kept the greatest of religious nuts out of the society building process. hope mr dabashi wishes same for islam.

[TriForLife3]

Wonder why Seung-Hui Cho inscribed Ismail Ax on his arms - anybody read the Islamic story of Ismail Ax?

[jdk209]

He even said John Wayne Gacy was Christian.

[jdk209]

Hamid Dabashi's great art is the word in itself. Just because it sounds good you believe it? His argument using Seung-Hui Cho and John Wayne Gacy is ridiculous.

Saying because there was 33 victims that has something to do with Jesus because he lived 33 years. Cho was trying to kill as many people as he could and the number so happened to be 33.

[SkCePticcc]

yeah the 33 thing is so Bull.

[revelationparadigm]

Anybody who thinks the USA is "Christian Crusading" there is wallowing in complete ignorance. The present Government there is Islamic Sharia based & was defended by Bush's policy for years. Hardly a "Christian Crusade". Suggest you get with the real world & see who is actually targeting school children there. The Taliban are typical Islamic fundamentalists who fear the education of Muslim children, because they will then be able to think for themselves & understand how barbaric Islam really is.

[homelandar15]

mohammed (fecal matter be upon him) was a 7th century pedophile who raped his underage wife aisha, its in the koran so you cant explain it away.

[assramistan]

Amazing, how he can equate 9/11, an act of mass murder celebrated throughout much of the Muslim world, to the acts of a single psychopath killing people of his own community (or school).

[masterofmetacognitio]

Yeah, except Cho didn't have Christian organizations backing his genocidal rampage, nor religious texts espousing his cruel behavior, nor millions of people shouting Christian slogans as they support terrorists and massacres of non-believers. Those behaviors, unfortunately, are common within Islam - in both terrorism against Western people, non-Muslims, and Shi'ite/Sunni conflicts - and it is fully within our judgment to put the blame where it lies....

[revelationparadigm]

Dabashi's argument here is based upon the most typical fallacy that is so easily exposed now that people are really beginning to understand Islam. His point about self professed Christian murdering people misses the target by miles, there is no doctrinal basis for Christians to murder, as murder is defined by the general census of humanity...unjust taking of life. BUT Islam provides all the doctrinal basis in the world for Jihadists to murder because it's justified for the success of Islam.

[melkquelk]

Agree 100% The problem (that I see) is that probably 80% of the current population being affected by such problems nowadays, and who have to take a stance, do not even understand the meaning of the word 'doctrine', let alone 'fallacy'. As a professor I observe my students and see that most of them simply refuse to take the effort to judge beyond simple statements like "two legs good, four legs bad". This is the real deep problem we're facing today in my view

[fajams23]

there is plenty of doctrinal basis for Christian murder. See the book of Joshua, "just war" writing of Augustine, and all the Christian terrorist groups in the world

[revelationparadigm]

Absolute nonsense fajams23. YOU say that trying to project justification for Christians to murder in order to provide some deflection from Islamic Jihad's murderous rhetoric. The old misplaced equivalency tactic, dragging down the other's moral standard in order to provide relief for your own beliefs that failed. There is no movement or established doctrine within Christianity using verses from Joshua to justify slaughtering civilians not taking up military arms against you.

[fajams23]

1) Who said I was Muslim?

2) The question was doctrine, not whether there are groups practicing that doctrine. The doctrine is definately there, and there a few small groups practicing it (see the Aryan nation, KKK, God's Army, etc..) Don't change the subject.

[revelationparadigm]

Aryan Nation, KKK & God's army can self profess they are,but have no alliances with evangelical Christian churches, no doctrinal foundation within the Bible for their racist hatred. What exactly makes them Christian, other than labels they and you put on them? Hating Jews yet claiming to follow Jesus the Jew? Jihad enjoys widespread support of Muslims worldwide and is plainly Quran doctrine, of course denial of circumstantial actions of terrorists when exposed.

[revelationparadigm]

Muslims denying Jihad is quite different than Christians denying KKK & others. First of all Jihad is clearly Quranic doctrine but racism is not Biblical by any stretch. Self proclaimed Muslims are being obedient by following Muhammad's example of Jihad, self proclaimed Christians are disobedient by being racist. Christians are commanded to make disciples of every tongue & every nation. Muslims are commanded to declare Jihad against anybody who resist Islam. Now what subject is being twisted?

[fajams23]

1) Most Muslims don't support war against unbelievers. Most polls have Muslim support for terrorism at 5%

2) Jews and Christians aren't considered unbelievers in the Quran

3) Neither the Bible or the Koran is "racist." Where in Koran is the word race? Both the Bible and Koran have verses that support war against unbelievers See Exodus 15:3 ("the Lord is a God of War"). The book of Ezekiel (38-39) even prophecies nuclear war!!

4) KKK had alliances with Christian churches throughout history.

[revelationparadigm]

1:) 5%??? Making up absurd numbers?

2.) The Quran tells Muslims not to take Jews & Christians as friends for they are protectors of each other.

3.)Muhammad called black people "raisin heads and said their hearts are as black as their skin

3.)Never said war isn't in the Bible or it denied war...who is reaching for subjects not discussed? The God of the Bible often declared war against people who opposed Him.

4.) Which "churches"? The point is plain, racism has no justification in the Bible.

[revelationparadigm]

"5%" is very dishonest. Are you speaking of Muslim on Muslim violence? Or against non Muslim "infidels"?. The point about racism with so called Christians is another one you are dancing around. Jihad against resistors to Islam is required of Muslims by the Quran, Christians have no such command to be racist. The equivalency angle is utter failure. "A Christian is dangerous when they do not obey the Bible, Muslims are dangerous when they obey the Quran". Jihad is the way of the obedient Muslim.

[PersianRussianFacts]

Your logic "if then" is quite preposterous if you are from the highly disproportional causalities from Muslim side like Afghanistan relative to Christian Crusaders.When I read comments from so-called intellectuals who highly hip deep in hypothesizing about something about Quran or Bible does not stop Muslim kids dyeing bacause of cluster bomb. Or in Beslan ,your Bloody Christians financed killing Christian school children. START TO THINK ABOUT REAL WORLD CASE BY CASE.

[jdk209]

Using Seung hui Cho as an argument. He didn't kill for any cause. He was in his own world. Terrorist are part of a cause and Cho was not.

[SomaliMakeupLover]

@revelationparadigm what a load of shit HAVE YOU READ THE BIBLE !!!

[revelationparadigm]

@SomaliMakeupLover huh? Do you actually have a point you are making? Uh yeah I have read the Bible, I have gone to Bible college...have you read the Bible?

[staffsgt7]

Well... it is a four letter word! And that word is not allowed for me to post on this thread! fascism, blind acceptance, degeneracy, it twists good and evil, war/peace, etc and calls it holy. It says it is ok to lie, oh er I mean 'deceive'. There is no honor - the instructions are to break any treaty/cease fire with unbelievers as soon as muslims are rearmed/regrouped.