The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists - A Socialist Book I Recommend To Everyone - Socialism

[maryfletcher4]

I made a short film inspired by Tressell, 'The Money Trick' see it at ' gsLAgW4X4KQ'

[Someideasandstuff]

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I don't think Socialism is the perfect solution. At the same time, I think it holds so much vital information that it should be studied intently. In my opinion, this book is a good place to start. And I'm not an anti-capitalist. I think both systems have good aspects to them and ultimately, it will be the successful blending of both that will create the healthiest societies. Europe has done a better job of this than us, but even they still have a ways to go.

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[Someideasandstuff]

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Taxation and regulation are not only moral, they are a necessity if it is your aim to create a healthier society. Some of the goals in the U.S. should be to lower the Gini Coefficient significantly, make universal healthcare a RIGHT, and subsidize university education(grants instead of loans). A much more significant progressive taxation policy would need to be part of this program.

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[Someideasandstuff]

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Capitalism is an inherently flawed system. Government regulation as well as taxation are the main instruments which should be used to diminish the natural capitalist phenomenon of wealth concentration. In other words, if you removed the government as well as taxation, you'd be left with a small percentage of ultra-wealthy(over the long run due primarily to mergers and acquisitions coupled with market saturation)...................­.. This doesn’t sound very good.

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[corr14]

It sounds like this is talking more about a marxist economy, rather than a socialist one. I could be wrong because I haven't read the book, but it seems like it is advocating the idea of spreading the wealth evenly.

[oldrubbish1]

@bobdole020 : "...everyone will opt to do less" - But I thought we were all different? I thought some people were "highly driven"? As for Socialism being good in theory, "but does not and cannot work " in practice, does this analysis not fit Capitalism also?

[bobdole020]

@oldrubbish1 Some people are highly driven. Highly driven to suceed. However, if you take away the reward for sucess (largely monetary in our society, like it or not). Why would people bother? Why work as hard as you can if it's just going to be taken away or if you could have the same or similar by doing very little. As for capitalism not working. Sure, it's not perfect by any means, but to misquote Churchill, "it;s the worse system in the world, except all the others".

[oldrubbish1]

@bobdole020 . Yes. In "our" (capitalist) society, one measure of "success" is accumulation of money. In a differently ordered society, is it possible there could be other measures of success? Can you think of any? Could these people who are "driven" perhaps be driven towards some other goal? They would still be the "driven" kind would they not? ....And I'm glad we agree that capitalism doesn't work....

[bobdole020]

@oldrubbish1 Yes we could all be motivated by something else. Perhaps some people will get up at 5am and clean the streets for free while others lay in bed as its a helpful thing to do for the greater good. Never going to happen. I didn't say capitalism didn't work, I just said it wasn't perfect. Until someone can get some sort of Zeitgeist 2 type society to work, it will have to do. Especially seeing as left wing ideologies have bankrupt virtually everything they've come in contact with.

[oldrubbish1]

@bobdole020 : Bankrupt? Like Greece you mean? Or Iceland? And obviously you've read the book in question, so you'll know about the measures suggested to encourage the "loafer" class to get out of bed and contribute. It's part of The Great Oration, as I recall. As far as I am aware, the system proposed in the book has never been seriously implemented. And the systems you are attempting to associate with it are "phantoms of you own imagining" - to quote the great man. They are not Socialism.

[bobdole020]

@oldrubbish1 Yes, we've all heard this argument before. No-one has ever done it right. If only we could do the socialism/communism thing right this time we would have a paradise for all and not mass genocide as is the tradition outcome. Bottom line, big governents just gets bigger and bigger, sees spending as the only solution, takes away more and more individual liberties until the whole system reaches breaking point and caves in on itself.

[sugarcanegray]

@bobdole020 capitalism doesn't reward highly driven people though - if it did, social mobility in highly capitalistic countries like the US would be higher. As it is, they rank second from bottom of western nations, just ahead of Britain.

[bobdole020]

@sugarcanegray Well that depends on which statistics you look at. However, you might also note that they are two of the richest countries in the world where even the so called poor are vastly richer than the average in many other countries. If we look at countries with strong left wing ideologies, Cuba, North Korea, the old Soviet Union, how mobile was society there? Were all the good working folk well looked after there? Sadly not, they were a lot worse off than in the evil capitalist west

[sugarcanegray]

@bobdole020 I don't know what the social mobility is in those totalitarian dictatorships, but I'm guessing it's pretty negligible. I was just pointing out the fallacy that capitalism equals opportunity, which it clearly doesn't, as is demonstrated by the lack of social mobility in more capitalist countries. Countries that have a social democracy tend to do much better - like France and the Scandanavian countries.

[bobdole020]

@sugarcanegray I take your point but I think there are a lot of other factors at play here that one cannot control for. Class, religion, historical context, social mentality etc. Ultimately I do agree with you though that pure capitalism wouldn't be good for mobility. Basic human rights, healthcare, food, shelter, education should be provided to all regardless of their ability to pay.

[sugarcanegray]

@bobdole020 well that's true also. So many factors involved, and I would say religion being a big one of them. Any institution that promotes stratification plays their part in stagnating societal progression and social mobility. And I couldn't agree more on your last point!

[sugarcanegray]

One of my all time favourite novels - not only incredibly insightful, but also a great story of working class life in England. Good review.

[stuart7034]

@Someideasandstuff i was a supporter of the tories b4 i read this book thank u for the upload

[bkztopkilla09]

look... all forms of governement is flawed.. none of them will work. for is there is a hungry man on the corner and a man on a yaht .. a man hanging by strings while and anotha holds the strings...none of them will work... each creates, greed, control, crime, poverty, etc... destroy everything .. and take a big leap into the future of mankind.. for war, hungry, poverty, greed, wealth.. is not needed...let us unite as one... not as a group.. or a category..

[bobdole020]

Socialism like communism is a great idea, and the people that subscribe to it are normally high minded people who see inequality in the world and feel that something must be done about it. However, socialism and communism are really not the answer. The free market is the best tool of wealth creation for all. Socialism and communism are meant to be about equality for all but looking through history one can see that they create the most unequal of societies time and again.

[Goohuman]

Wealth and poverty are not the problems with societies. It is power. There will always be hard workers that become rich and lazy people that don't bother with money. Freedom means free to choose, not to get stuff for free.

Socialism is just another way to govern. The fact that fewer people have more power in that system means that they are more likely to become corrupt.

Why can't we learn from history? Why do we have to go through this again?

[JJamerson]

Interesting that you portray hard workers who become rich and lazy people who don't bother with money. It's an incredibly widespread delusion.

The son of a millionaire could lounge on a yacht 24/7 - why not? Meanwhile a binman has to break his back every day just to survive from week to week. Hard work in no way correlates with wealth. That's one of the great myths the rich dole out to the gullible masses.

[Goohuman]

Your "widespread delusion" is common sense to the rest of us. Only a socialist could believe that wealth takes little to no effort and has nothing to do with hard work. Do you know any rich people? For that matter, do you know of any rich people (outside of the fantasy of movies) that didn't have to work hard to get that way? You do know "Arthur" was fiction don't you? Mr Deeds? That wealth is fleeting at best.

[JJamerson]

Many things seem "common sense", but are false so that's not a substantial argument.

I did not say wealth takes little or no effort, so that's meaningless too. It does take effort to create wealth. My point is, reward is not proportional to effort. The poor work to build palaces for the rich.

I know rich people - the UK royal family for instance. They didn't work hard - they were born into it. Most rich people give and leave wealth to their offspring who don't earn it. The just "own" things.

[Goohuman]

So what percentage of the millionaires today made their own wealth? What percentage do you think just had it handed to them?

[tennisIS4pussys]

The fact is that in a capitalist society there will forever be poverty. ppl like you like the blame capitalism, but in fact I grew up in poverty because people are lazy, and u ppl can never understand that. my parents did not work hard in life, I didnt know my dad, but my mother was selfish and lazy until she died from a drug overdose. Why should hard working ppl pay for lazy ppl's food? it is not my fault that i grew up poor, but it will be my fault if i do nothing to get out of poverty

[tennisIS4pussys]

Im not sure if you support socialism. But if you do please know that socialism lacks competition which is vital for innovation and growth. Im majoring in economics at the university of Chicago and Civil engineering at UIC. I was born and raised in the slums of Chicago with out a father and had an unloving mother. I have eaten out of a garbage can many times in my life but I still managed to get to where I am WITHOUT government help. With a strong will the poorest can become the richest

[Someideasandstuff]

So you grew up in Chicago and ate out of garbage cans many times in your life. Do you realize that you grew up in one of the richest countries on earth but you still needed to eat out of garbage cans?

Which economic system would allow such a thing?

[Goohuman]

Well, I hope you are not trying to DEFEND communism or socialism with that statement. The other half of my family stayed in Russia and witnessed far far worse conditions than tennisIS4pussys described. Many is the USSR starved to death under Stalin. They would have LOVED to eat from the trash.

Thats what happens when you give government all your power. They take it, and forget about you.

[tennisIS4pussys]

@Someideasandstuff the same economic system that allows hard working people like me to live in a bigger house and nicer car than lazy ass people who don't do shit for them selves. I'm rich now baby!

[JJamerson]

And are you aware that you had, and continue to have, massive government help. Where do you think the US IT infrastructure came from? You're sitting at a computer now. Where do you think your education came from? Where do you think your laws are made and enforced?

You should never have had to eat from garbage cans. No-one should. That's the competition you champion. The socialism you oppose would have provided you with a secure home and healthy diet. Go figure.

[tennisIS4pussys]

@JJamerson hahaha I love how people say that basic things such as infrastructure is because of socialism. Can you be any more ignorant?? I never said i support ANARCHY as you assumed I did. The socialism I oppose also wouldn't allow me to be where I'm at now. I guarantee I'm making more money than anyone on commenting on this page... and I'm only 21! And that is because of capitalism rewards hard working people such as myself. And I donate money just like all rich people do.