MAD MEN - "1960, I am so over you!" 1.10

[EmmyLuxeMakeUpInc]

this is an amazing scene.

[deegonz06]

everything used in the show including language and expressions is authentic. Mathew Weiner spent years amassing research about clothes, customs, culture, etc. to make it completely accurate.

[BuzzOnTheFly]

I love Betty and Joan!!! LOVE EM!

[mikabish]

How truly heartbreaking

[halcyon5zippo]

Perhaps Joan will pick up some "tendencies" in this third season.

[waywardghost]

Gay culture was a live and well in the 1960s (as in any other era). Check out the pulps of the time for sensationalistic evidence. It would've been rare, but it's not out of the question.

[IantoCross]

OK, now about the last part. Given the time period, that was a very sweet way to respond to such a confession.

[IantoCross]

Um, isn't "so over you" a modern phrase?

[ChopstickBrando]

I thought so, too.

Scriptwriters have to be careful to keep anachronisms like this out of dialogue.

[ilvtofku]

It is 1960. What an idiot would confess in such a dramatically stupid way.

[CMBrannstrom]

why didn't they follow this up?

[chantoke]

because it was 1960.

[suomynonys]

WHOA!!

[lambkelly]

such good writing!!!! Too bad the ad world today (at least in the US) is soooo straight and conservative... YES.... I work in it!

[FreshAzImIz62]

Conservative? Have you not seen the ads recently published in various mags for men's wear (Duncan Quinn), BMW - "you know you're not the first" (referring to a car AND a woman but w/ a picture of a woman not a car), Diamonds are forever ads with the tag line "She thinks you're funny again"? They are grotesque and not at all conservative.

[mangarda]

Agreed - but that's not really what 'conservative' means. It doesn't necessarily mean wholesome, or politically correct...in its purest definition, 'conservative' simply means 'averse to change.' Traditional, unadventurous, etc. And I think that can describe the modern Ad industry in some senses (particularly in fashion magazines, which is where you draw your references).

[xojbabyxo]

I was real shocked at this moment, i did not know she was falling for Joan.

[rtozier]

Am I wrong or was the phrase "I'm so over you" actually invented by the Friends writers?

[echolalia48]

this scene is so sad

carol should talk with salvatore

[AWakeWoman155]

"You've had a hard day." That was the best delivery of a single line on TV last year. Christina Hendricks is amazing.

[msmadgirl]

Agreed - S1 was full of so many deliveries like this made me catch my breath and think, "This show is amazing!"

[cdelitocdelito]

I was glad to see they didn't hook up; that would have been to cliche with TV and movies today. Furthermore, it would have ignored the social perception towards gays and lesbians in that era.

[lookatdoor]

Not really. Gays and lesbians did have relationships back then, they were just in secret. The way Joan reacted reminded me of the scene in The Hours when Laura kissed Kitty. She didn't outright reject her advances, she just pretended nothing happened.

[bonomo012]

Does anyone else think that Kim Novak is an odd choice for Joan to be emulating? Novak's on screen persona is usually very unsure of herself, and reluctant to play the roles expected of her. Sure she was beautiful and glamorous, but Vertigo shows it made people expect things of her that she was not comfortable, or even able to do.

[argtunu]

I think Joan was only talking about physically looking like her anyway.

[mpjrdldn]

I know what you mean. Kim Novak had a cool demeanor and Joan has a hot affect.

[LJBCRT]

Fabulous. The reason it is so "shocking" that Carol has made a pass at Joan, is that your mind thinks it's 1960, and lesbianism was hardly front page news. It was hidden and coded away from the mainstream conscious of America. This show is easily my favorite on TV now. Was the Sopranos, now it's Mad Men. It is an expertly crafted show.

LJB

[mareko07]

True, the "I'm so over you" line does sound out of place with the time, I thought Joan's reaction to Peggy's confession was spot on actually.

Joan's a progressive but pragmatic lady stuck in a stilted, oppressive era. She didn't respond scornfully to Peggy's bittersweet revelation, but rather side-stepped it in a keenly worded, carefully calibrated manner, sparing her friend outright rejection while nonetheless conveying a shared knowingness of the ways things are and what simply cannot be.

[zoeleeta]

couldn't have said it better myself!

I felt really bad for peggy, but at least joan didn't slap her across the face or something.

[goldbergje]

Yes, "1960, I'm *so* over you!" would NOT have been in the vernacular of the time.

[pataphysician66]

True- that was a very '00 line.

[colordojoe]

I was going to say that very thing, you beat me to the punch!

[argtunu]

Her name's Carol.

[ace11rothstein]

Now that Emmy voters are so fuckin' stupid that they fail to recognize the genius of "The Wire", I hope they can at least come to their senses and vote "Mad Men" best drama.

[londonluvver]

Love this show, but "I'm so over you" was a screeching reminder of current ways of talking and was my least favorite moment of the series because it was so obviously not how people spoke in the 1960s.

[LazlosPlane]

I, too, enjoy this show but certainly not for its dedication to reality. There are so many anachronisims and anachronistic behavior it's hard to keep track and you are spot on with "I'm so over you."

[hollywoodartchick]

Yeah, that jumped out at me really fast. Maybe the writers are too young to know the slang of the time.

[gerrysgirl1980]

i really love this show, but even when i first saw this part, i just thought, "i don't think in 1960 a lesbian would have been able to be THAT forward!!!" it's not forward by today's standard, but this sort of seemed unreasonable considering the time. i don't know.

[welshdevondragon]

Hey she loves her- it was going to have to burst out some time- no matter what the social constraints were shes rebelled against them by already admitting it to herself so its not that big a step to tell somone you hope will return your love

[foreo]

Mad Men is an incredible series and one of it's great strengths is it's restraint. Encapsulating the repressive mood of the time. But the thing about restraint is that occasionally a little something seeps out of it's tight grip. This scene is one such moment. A lifetime of unrequited love is bound to push the closet door a inch or two eventually! Utterly credible to me. The series is littered with tortured souls cus everyone, not just gays & lesbians, were in the closet about something in 1960

[jacquesjapan]

So well put and this scene was pitch perfect.

[ANarayan]

*ouch*

[goldbergje]

The show looks appealing so far, but NO ONE would have said "I am SO over you" in 1960. It wasn't part of the cultural vernacular then.

[Moionfire]

I agree...

[fuhoney]

Yeah, I hate it when they do things that are so obviously contemporary for today's standards and never would happen then.

[Randompzycho]

Well next time i see my cousin ill be she to quote her on yhe just think of me as a boy thing freaking hilarious

[garyowen4ever]

in the immortal words of jerry seinfeld or was it george costanza,,,,thatsa pretty big mahtzaball to leave hanging out there....

[SueSnell]

I just want to cry!

[10pigdog6]

"Just think of me as a boy." Oh man!

I love this show, and that Joan is to die for.

[EmpressofthisWorld]

She's one of the few redheads who can pull off wearing pink.(in that one episode). Joan is one of my favorite characters but she is such a heartbreaker!

I feel bad for Carol but she honestl didn't have a chance Joan is too straight!

[tmjewel]

like O MY GAWD!! whoaaaa