@GregHuismans Please,You think Paganini would not tear sh.t up these days,or ysaye or sarasate?!!!The Spitz analogy is ridiculous.
Standards have evolved indeed,the only thing you got right.But what it means is actually just that more people come out of conservatories, ahora ,able to play the 24 caprices.
the creme remains the creme.the top doesn't change beyond the anecdote.ernst wrote and played his pieces,paganini idem.can i hear your ysaye?
For anyone interested in vintage Ysaye and the music of those days, the complete collection is available on Amazon -- Just search for this Eugene Ysaye: Violinist and Conductor- The Complete Violin Recordings. Yes ALL the recordings available. There are 20 tracks on that list, such as
5. Caprice viennois, Op. 2
6. Concerto For Violin And Orchestra In E Minor, Op. 64 (lll: Allegro molto vivace)
Ysaye could well aim for breaking the speed record. The crystal clear articulation even at the insane which he sometimes reaches has to be heard to be believed. But even after hearing it I can't believe every note is so clear. And back in 1912 recording was nowhere as advanced as today.
damn right this is rushed. He makes a point of it! just check out 1:06-1:09- he breaks the meter... Ysaye had a view on tempo which generally placed emphasis on 'give and take'. He'll go ahead, then pull back to compensate, and ends the piece as if he's been playing with a 'mean' tempo that's he's just been fooling around with. :)
Man is this great!He plays quite Heifetz-like,or I should say Heifetz plays this concerto quite Ysaye-like!Astonishing similarities between the two recordings!Both astonishing!Love Ysaye's artistry!
Proof that there were people who could play the violin quite well before Heifetz raised the technical bar, eh? Shame these old violinists weren't captured in better sound; I find them fascinating...
Personally, I love Ysaye's playing. I realize it's probably sped up a bit, but the tempo is still rather brisk...and even at such speeds he never loses control of the piece.
Also, I think he kind of looks like Anton Rubinstein here! From what I understand they were both rather large people...
Some earlier posters have noted that this recording seems to play a semitone sharp. I wonder if it is being played back too fast? There is no reason why Ysaye should have played at anything higher than our concert pitch; there had indeed been a higher pitch (A455) in use in Britain & the USA in the previous century, but it seems to have died out rapidly after the 1890s. Many early recordings deviate from the nominal 78rpm standard.
I find it terribly amusing to see snot-nosed children come and "try" to degrade a world master who has received adulation from almost every single romantic composer and was raised on a pedestal by all his contemporaries as the ultimate master.
Next thing, they'll start bashing the sound engineer for his lousy, scratchy, noisy sound and short tracks compared to their pristine .flac files. LOL!
@RaRaLandEQ Mark Spitz was a legend and utterly unrivalled in his day. However Spitz at his peak would not make the US women's team today. I think it's totally fair to say that Spitz as a swimmer is massively inferior to Phelps. I don't care how good violinists and athletes were in their day. Standards have unquestionably improved.
@GregHuismans I don't recall questioning progress. Forgive my candour when I say I believe you may have possibly missed the point IF you're trying to defend juvenile,boastful derision towards outdated standards. I hope you don't believe such frivolous commentary to be commendable.. though it being your human right to feel so.
Have I missed your point entirely? It is certainly plausible, but I'd rather laugh&brush off insolence towards those who've merited their accolades, than fight windmills.
@RaRaLandEQ why do you think calling your fellow listeners 'snot-nosed children' improves this website? do you really think it's a worthy accompaniment to this recording?
Its amazing how through such a poor recording you can still here the stirring sound of the violin. It just shows that Ysaye was such a great player. The piano is very much distorted and there is a lot of noise, however still coming through is the violin, its colours and its tone.
Phenomenal! I knew Ysaye was good, but didn't expect this!
And he must have been, like, fifty-something, when he did this. In an age when recording was still in its infancy, he displays truly astonishing technique.
And if you look at the picture, he's a massive man. Huge hands.
Ysaye's dash (I don't mean speed I mean style) and bite in this movement make it so exceptionally fascinating. All of his recordings are worth hearing, including those he made as a conductor.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
Interesting. A lot more intonation mistakes than I expected and Ysaye seemed like he paid no mind to his pianist (though, in Ysaye's defense, the pianist didn't do very well to begin with). Heifetz does it much better of course, but the only reasons his recordings were so fast sometimes was because there was a limit to what one could put on those old recordings. He was just trying to fit the entire movement on one side before it ran out.
That was reali very a breathtaking and it'was my first time hearing such a fast, playing song, reali incridible, undescrible, and excellent is all i could say.
great playing... very little vibrato and still so beautiful&elegant. Totally different kind of interpretation from today's. Speed is not a problem mehhh, as long as it's beautiful. Today's violinists should learn to play elegantly as this!
I take your point, but if the you compare 1920 with 44 and 54,he slowed the tempo,but IMO was more effective musically.The fact that the 1920 recording was with piano might have encouraged super speed.
In 1920 Heifetz recorded this movement in 4:06!It sounds rushed to me. His live recordings of 1944 and 1954 showed speed without sacrificing musicality.
Heifetz never rushed. He only played as fast he though he should to get his point across. Glenn Gould was also notorious for being a speed demon, yet he is one of the greatest musicians in the 20th century. Listen to Primrose playing Caprice #24... It only seems rushed from your perspective - take another perspective and it is surely not rushed.
Keep in mind that Heifetz was 19 years old in 1920. Of course he wasn't as fully developed musically as later on. But still, I am sure there wasn't a professional violinist in the world who's mouth didn't drop open at hearing a 19-year-old Heifetz. Also, I'm not trying to criticize your opinion, by the way.
Incorrect - the recording may sound a bit high-piched, but it's not faster; it's actually slower. I asked the violist William Primrose about this recording; the A in Paris at this time could reach as high as 445. The recording was made last, after he had done several others, each one of which held a maximum of 4 minutes and 33 seconds of music. The engineer had one side left over to fill. This recording is reproduced too slowly, not too quickly (4:53), as hard as that may be to believe.
i was half kidding, but heifetz kinda had a reputation for being somewhat of a speed demon. you can play something fast, play something really fast, and then there's heifetz speeds. but both are equally marvelous
Heifetz was only a speed demon for exciting peices (duh, to make more exciting and virtuosic). Listen to the second movements of most concertos and you will not hear a speed demon. Interestingly, Glenn Gould was also a speed demon, even more so than Heifetz. And if you've seen Primrose playing the 24th caprice, you will notice he plays at a much higher tempo than Heifetz. No Heifetz, was not only about speed...
That's very interesting about the second movements, I hadn't paid that much attention to it before. Maybe Heifetz was a little faster overall in general among violinists? But it seems like you know more of what you're talking about than me. Kudos, I admire that.
He grew up in the romantic era, which didn't actually place as much emphasis on concertos as we do now. A modern violinist that doesn't record the Tchaikovsky today is considered an amatuer. Heifetz' true artistry actually shows up on the short encore and romantic pieces that were mastered by Elman and Milstein as well. I have about 98% of Heifetz' recordings and most are these short pieces. I posted a few of them on my channel to give people a better perspective of his work.
I don't know, you're right he does play Rondo pretty fast. But As far being a speed demon. I think Menuhin was really into it. HAha a listen to his Hungarian Dance number five.
milstein and primrose both had the highest respect for ysaye... he did use vibrato but he also used ton blanc for effect. His bowing control was revolutionary, and I believe he was recorded way after his prime as well. Nobody who knows can question the authenticity of such genius!
The thing that turns me off the oldies is the record quality... I just prefer better tone (I mean what I'm actually hearing with my ears... you know it doesn't really make it through the record)
Pretty damn good though for 1912. Best record I've ever heard from that far back.
His playing is incredible...I love the 'fiery' quality :)
Wow! How enlightening. Perhaps the greatest virtuso of (and composer for) the violin since Paganini shows why! Hair raising virtuosity and command of the fiddle. Thanks a million times for posting.
hey aimson, its great that you and others here value this music as I do, because it seems like no one nowadays even understands how good it is. One reviewer on amazon compared one of these early 1900 violinists to a high school player. Practically everyone believes these guys are bad beccause they don't vibrato. it's called TONE!!
Hehe, glad you enjoy them - a lot of people here do I think. I have always looked to the older violinists for inspiration and I think they were generally better musicians than more modern violinists. Worse technique maybe but more unique musically. Like I always say, great music can only be built on great foundation. The more we learn about the past, the better we can shape the future.
Great to hear. I think the recording has been quickened slightly during the transfer from original to vinyl and then to CD (judging from the pitch of this, which is about a semitone sharper than it should be), but the technique required nonetheless to do those three-octave runs is nothing short of formidable. And, yes - refreshing to hear an old recording that clearly embraces a brisk and crisp approach over the overly-romanticist version we may have been expecting.
You're welcome! I was also surprised when I heard this recording. Since it was recorded in 1912, I highly expected it to sound very romantic with tons of rubato (think maybe Mischa Elman's style). Instead, it is a very firey rendition of a piece that not many people play with fire.
@GregHuismans Please,You think Paganini would not tear sh.t up these days,or ysaye or sarasate?!!!The Spitz analogy is ridiculous.
Standards have evolved indeed,the only thing you got right.But what it means is actually just that more people come out of conservatories, ahora ,able to play the 24 caprices.
the creme remains the creme.the top doesn't change beyond the anecdote.ernst wrote and played his pieces,paganini idem.can i hear your ysaye?
TheMaximvengerov 14 hours ago
This recording is historic in it's importance whether you like it or not. It is an important testimony of the past stage of taste evolution.
GKJusticar55 1 week ago
A fascinating historic recording! The tempo is up a bit !!!!!!
gerardbedecarter 1 month ago
I am proud to be this man's great-gran-student;)
ChaconnesAreFun2Play 2 months ago
@Elainelps0421 Yes those are his recordings.
ksviewerx 7 months ago
For anyone interested in vintage Ysaye and the music of those days, the complete collection is available on Amazon -- Just search for this Eugene Ysaye: Violinist and Conductor- The Complete Violin Recordings. Yes ALL the recordings available. There are 20 tracks on that list, such as
5. Caprice viennois, Op. 2
6. Concerto For Violin And Orchestra In E Minor, Op. 64 (lll: Allegro molto vivace)
7. Ave Maria, D.839 - Schubert (YES, it is..)
8. Abendlied, Op. 85, No. 12
9. Rondino, Op. 32, No. 2
ksviewerx 10 months ago
@ksviewerx Wow...all of the tracks are played by Ysaye? Or by other great violinists, too?
Elainelps0421 7 months ago
Ysaye could well aim for breaking the speed record. The crystal clear articulation even at the insane which he sometimes reaches has to be heard to be believed. But even after hearing it I can't believe every note is so clear. And back in 1912 recording was nowhere as advanced as today.
ksviewerx 11 months ago
Comment removed
ksviewerx 11 months ago
damn right this is rushed. He makes a point of it! just check out 1:06-1:09- he breaks the meter... Ysaye had a view on tempo which generally placed emphasis on 'give and take'. He'll go ahead, then pull back to compensate, and ends the piece as if he's been playing with a 'mean' tempo that's he's just been fooling around with. :)
fryfry377 1 year ago
Man is this great!He plays quite Heifetz-like,or I should say Heifetz plays this concerto quite Ysaye-like!Astonishing similarities between the two recordings!Both astonishing!Love Ysaye's artistry!
HeifetzRanew 1 year ago
Incredible. His fame was well deserved.
DelfosMX 1 year ago
Proof that there were people who could play the violin quite well before Heifetz raised the technical bar, eh? Shame these old violinists weren't captured in better sound; I find them fascinating...
Personally, I love Ysaye's playing. I realize it's probably sped up a bit, but the tempo is still rather brisk...and even at such speeds he never loses control of the piece.
Also, I think he kind of looks like Anton Rubinstein here! From what I understand they were both rather large people...
OzzyKingofKings 1 year ago
Comment removed
bcw1518 1 year ago
Certified Intergalactic! Eugene Ysaye the Great!
Dogaradodia 2 years ago
incredible virtuoso
4LX1M1K 2 years ago 6
This is still badass, two years after my original comment.
felixmendelssohn 2 years ago
Some earlier posters have noted that this recording seems to play a semitone sharp. I wonder if it is being played back too fast? There is no reason why Ysaye should have played at anything higher than our concert pitch; there had indeed been a higher pitch (A455) in use in Britain & the USA in the previous century, but it seems to have died out rapidly after the 1890s. Many early recordings deviate from the nominal 78rpm standard.
Thanks to Aimson for this valuable material.
Menophanes 2 years ago
I find it terribly amusing to see snot-nosed children come and "try" to degrade a world master who has received adulation from almost every single romantic composer and was raised on a pedestal by all his contemporaries as the ultimate master.
Next thing, they'll start bashing the sound engineer for his lousy, scratchy, noisy sound and short tracks compared to their pristine .flac files. LOL!
RaRaLandEQ 2 years ago 12
@RaRaLandEQ Mark Spitz was a legend and utterly unrivalled in his day. However Spitz at his peak would not make the US women's team today. I think it's totally fair to say that Spitz as a swimmer is massively inferior to Phelps. I don't care how good violinists and athletes were in their day. Standards have unquestionably improved.
GregHuismans 2 months ago
@GregHuismans I don't recall questioning progress. Forgive my candour when I say I believe you may have possibly missed the point IF you're trying to defend juvenile,boastful derision towards outdated standards. I hope you don't believe such frivolous commentary to be commendable.. though it being your human right to feel so.
Have I missed your point entirely? It is certainly plausible, but I'd rather laugh&brush off insolence towards those who've merited their accolades, than fight windmills.
RaRaLandEQ 2 months ago
Everything @GregHuismans writes is garbage.
marcxopoco 1 month ago
@RaRaLandEQ why do you think calling your fellow listeners 'snot-nosed children' improves this website? do you really think it's a worthy accompaniment to this recording?
stringph 1 week ago
I personally enjoy his fluctuations of tempo. Here he rushes ahead, other times he pulls back. What stylish playing!
I'm sorry, but the intonation "problems" in this performance are very minor indeed. Silly to say otherwise.
ipmoic 2 years ago
@ipmoic - Agreed. He did what he wanted with it! What more can you ask from a performer? It would be boring if he didn't have his own take on things.
digitalwhiplash5 1 year ago
Casals always used to say that Ysaye was the first modern violinist to play in tune.
assindiastignani 2 years ago
And when he recorded this he already was 54 and already with health problems...Imagine how he played at 20!
When he was a young conzertmaister of the Berlin Philarmonic orchestra, Liszt, Joachim, Rubinstein, used to go to listen him playing!
ocramizz 3 years ago 4
It is half tone higher and therefore faster than the original playing was ...
cenolbaj 3 years ago
I think in those days, they did not focus in on tuning like we do today, but this is Ysaye so it is fantastic!
amati2009 3 years ago
This is the "student-granddaughte" him:
Hilary Hahn
Sitioespacio 3 years ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
There is nothing musical about this performance. It is all about fast and faster-
It borders on circus daring do. That he was a
brilliant technical player is a given -as a musical artist on this at least he is down at the bottom.Terrible example of violin artistry .
orjus 3 years ago
The intonations here are probably partly from the tape aging as it creates "warp" sounds
but i won't use that as an excuse for some of the intonation problems
Jaesango 3 years ago
Breathtaking.
cromulentinnoc3nce 3 years ago
Its amazing how through such a poor recording you can still here the stirring sound of the violin. It just shows that Ysaye was such a great player. The piano is very much distorted and there is a lot of noise, however still coming through is the violin, its colours and its tone.
DualThunder 3 years ago
4:53!!
cgd147 3 years ago 2
Phenomenal! I knew Ysaye was good, but didn't expect this!
And he must have been, like, fifty-something, when he did this. In an age when recording was still in its infancy, he displays truly astonishing technique.
And if you look at the picture, he's a massive man. Huge hands.
GreatPianists 3 years ago 9
awesome
kharkorry 3 years ago
Ysaye's dash (I don't mean speed I mean style) and bite in this movement make it so exceptionally fascinating. All of his recordings are worth hearing, including those he made as a conductor.
David K. Nelson
engine1385 3 years ago 3
This comment has received too many negative votes show
Interesting. A lot more intonation mistakes than I expected and Ysaye seemed like he paid no mind to his pianist (though, in Ysaye's defense, the pianist didn't do very well to begin with). Heifetz does it much better of course, but the only reasons his recordings were so fast sometimes was because there was a limit to what one could put on those old recordings. He was just trying to fit the entire movement on one side before it ran out.
Scrufftar 4 years ago
Very good!
Waeweas 4 years ago 3
That was reali very a breathtaking and it'was my first time hearing such a fast, playing song, reali incridible, undescrible, and excellent is all i could say.
thx~
bountyhanz 4 years ago
great playing... very little vibrato and still so beautiful&elegant. Totally different kind of interpretation from today's. Speed is not a problem mehhh, as long as it's beautiful. Today's violinists should learn to play elegantly as this!
chienwen81 4 years ago 2
I take your point, but if the you compare 1920 with 44 and 54,he slowed the tempo,but IMO was more effective musically.The fact that the 1920 recording was with piano might have encouraged super speed.
sharlesin 4 years ago
In 1920 Heifetz recorded this movement in 4:06!It sounds rushed to me. His live recordings of 1944 and 1954 showed speed without sacrificing musicality.
sharlesin 4 years ago
Heifetz never rushed. He only played as fast he though he should to get his point across. Glenn Gould was also notorious for being a speed demon, yet he is one of the greatest musicians in the 20th century. Listen to Primrose playing Caprice #24... It only seems rushed from your perspective - take another perspective and it is surely not rushed.
aimson 4 years ago
Keep in mind that Heifetz was 19 years old in 1920. Of course he wasn't as fully developed musically as later on. But still, I am sure there wasn't a professional violinist in the world who's mouth didn't drop open at hearing a 19-year-old Heifetz. Also, I'm not trying to criticize your opinion, by the way.
aimson 4 years ago
dont be fooled by the speed, the recording is high pitched meaning the actually playing was much slower than this.
gnatural 4 years ago
Incorrect - the recording may sound a bit high-piched, but it's not faster; it's actually slower. I asked the violist William Primrose about this recording; the A in Paris at this time could reach as high as 445. The recording was made last, after he had done several others, each one of which held a maximum of 4 minutes and 33 seconds of music. The engineer had one side left over to fill. This recording is reproduced too slowly, not too quickly (4:53), as hard as that may be to believe.
bachmaster 4 years ago
well, almost
ztefieh 4 years ago
didn't know they were racing :)
aimson 4 years ago
i was half kidding, but heifetz kinda had a reputation for being somewhat of a speed demon. you can play something fast, play something really fast, and then there's heifetz speeds. but both are equally marvelous
ztefieh 4 years ago
Heifetz was only a speed demon for exciting peices (duh, to make more exciting and virtuosic). Listen to the second movements of most concertos and you will not hear a speed demon. Interestingly, Glenn Gould was also a speed demon, even more so than Heifetz. And if you've seen Primrose playing the 24th caprice, you will notice he plays at a much higher tempo than Heifetz. No Heifetz, was not only about speed...
aimson 4 years ago
That's very interesting about the second movements, I hadn't paid that much attention to it before. Maybe Heifetz was a little faster overall in general among violinists? But it seems like you know more of what you're talking about than me. Kudos, I admire that.
ztefieh 4 years ago
He grew up in the romantic era, which didn't actually place as much emphasis on concertos as we do now. A modern violinist that doesn't record the Tchaikovsky today is considered an amatuer. Heifetz' true artistry actually shows up on the short encore and romantic pieces that were mastered by Elman and Milstein as well. I have about 98% of Heifetz' recordings and most are these short pieces. I posted a few of them on my channel to give people a better perspective of his work.
aimson 4 years ago
So what's the other 2%?
ztefieh 4 years ago
I don't know, you're right he does play Rondo pretty fast. But As far being a speed demon. I think Menuhin was really into it. HAha a listen to his Hungarian Dance number five.
OtherWorld 4 years ago
That video on youtube is like a semi-tone sharp because it is a semi-tone sped up, but I know what you mean.
ztefieh 4 years ago
This is quite amazing....but my god!!!! The speed...enough to put Heifetz to shame. well, almost.
ztefieh 4 years ago
milstein and primrose both had the highest respect for ysaye... he did use vibrato but he also used ton blanc for effect. His bowing control was revolutionary, and I believe he was recorded way after his prime as well. Nobody who knows can question the authenticity of such genius!
pviola314 4 years ago
The pianist made a mistake in last chords of the piece
Milereba8333745 4 years ago
The thing that turns me off the oldies is the record quality... I just prefer better tone (I mean what I'm actually hearing with my ears... you know it doesn't really make it through the record)
Pretty damn good though for 1912. Best record I've ever heard from that far back.
His playing is incredible...I love the 'fiery' quality :)
sonata1992 4 years ago
you listen to enough of these and soon you'll tune away the static. the quality more than makes up in the playing
pviola314 4 years ago
What exquisite playing from Ysaye!
I loved his compositions, but never heard him play. Thanks for sharing.
GreatPianists 4 years ago
Wow! How enlightening. Perhaps the greatest virtuso of (and composer for) the violin since Paganini shows why! Hair raising virtuosity and command of the fiddle. Thanks a million times for posting.
ipmoic 4 years ago
hey aimson, its great that you and others here value this music as I do, because it seems like no one nowadays even understands how good it is. One reviewer on amazon compared one of these early 1900 violinists to a high school player. Practically everyone believes these guys are bad beccause they don't vibrato. it's called TONE!!
prokkets 4 years ago
Hehe, glad you enjoy them - a lot of people here do I think. I have always looked to the older violinists for inspiration and I think they were generally better musicians than more modern violinists. Worse technique maybe but more unique musically. Like I always say, great music can only be built on great foundation. The more we learn about the past, the better we can shape the future.
aimson 4 years ago
question: is he actually playing at this speed, or is the recording being played at a faster speed? because the recording pitches are way off.
pachmann 4 years ago
this recording is amazing. It's great to hear such a recording from such a player/composer.
thanks XD this guy plays it pretty well.
DualThunder 5 years ago
Great to hear. I think the recording has been quickened slightly during the transfer from original to vinyl and then to CD (judging from the pitch of this, which is about a semitone sharper than it should be), but the technique required nonetheless to do those three-octave runs is nothing short of formidable. And, yes - refreshing to hear an old recording that clearly embraces a brisk and crisp approach over the overly-romanticist version we may have been expecting.
sebastianbosley 5 years ago
wow; i wasn't expecting this sort of interpretation, either
felixmendelssohn 5 years ago
This is wonderful to hear. Thank you very much for letting us hear Ysaye.
cattleman6420012000 5 years ago
Thanks so much aimson for giving us these wonderful history lessons! This is so fast and un-schmalzy. Fascinating!
mimfri 5 years ago
You're welcome! I was also surprised when I heard this recording. Since it was recorded in 1912, I highly expected it to sound very romantic with tons of rubato (think maybe Mischa Elman's style). Instead, it is a very firey rendition of a piece that not many people play with fire.
aimson 5 years ago