Tibetan Buddhist Protector DORJE SHUGDEN (2)

[clandestine6760]

Is there any footage of oracles invoking any of the other protectors, like Yama, or Yamantaka?

[CCTV7miIitary]

I am supporting Shugden completely. It is becoming popular in China. Formerly there was advice against religion. "Don't be religious." Religion is poisin.

But lately there are flyer saying, if you want to try out Tibet Buddhism, try Shugden only.

[dragonthunder2010]

Well put I agree totally. this is the environment we live in today. Those who support the ban would have u believe right off the bat. But if you don't know how to google then be prepared to hold wrong views. I search many places and none make more sense than at ds (dot) com

[Varavaken]

@dragonthunder2010

You don´t search many places. You just quote Dorje Shugden sites.

You are a propagandist.

[dragonthunder2010]

Also the world is getting smaller and everyone affects everyone. So if U say U want "Spiritual Autonomy" on one hand But on the other U BAN a practice 350 years old - and say these practitioners cannot enter your teachings just cause they practice Dorje Shugden??? Seems extremely biased. But other religions are all welcome, tht's just plain discrimination even a 5 year old can tell. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out. So what is the real agenda???

[dragonthunder2010]

Yes the BAN on Dorje Shugden is Baseless, illogical truths that only one person seem to think so & is implemented based on the "because I say so and I am holier then though attitude" and no one shld oppose but vote according to what I advice. This is something the world today will not buy. Maybe if it was 20 years ago, ok maybe you can do that and get away. But it's the 21st century, sorry! Ppl today can think logically, are educated & can see facts & truth for themselves and decide.

[TheDharmaKnight]

The Tibetans in exile have gone through so much on a daily basis, having separated from their families...isn't it strange that DL and TGIE have always relied on Nechung. Is it until now that Nechung's prediction seems inaccurate? Is it because of the result of collective karma?

[TheRedNiece]

@TheDharmaKnight it's ironic that Nechung was the protector who in fact encouraged Dorje Shugden to arise as a Dharma Protector. but now apparently, he is saying we shouldn't practise Dorje Shugden and that DS is not a proper protector? It doesn't make any sense at all.

[dragonthunder2010]

The latest big one of these was the famous statement hat Tibet would be free by the year 2000. How devastating for all Tibetans, of whom probably most believed that the news came directly from His Holiness clairvoyant mind.

So why do they still ask Nechung's advice when it comes to making hige decisions about the people and their cause?

[dragonthunder2010]

When speaking against Dorje Shugden, part of the reasoning was that there is the danger of Buddhism degenerating into spirit worship. Yet no major decision is made by the Tibetan government in exile without consulting the state oracle, inspite of the many fatally wrong predictions made and advices given by Nechung.

[TheRedNiece]

@dragonthunder2010 the very fact that they claim it is spirit worship is without basis and very silly. So many highly attained Lamas have praised and recognised Dorje Shugden as the emanation of the Buddha Manjushri - so are the TGIE now saying that all those lamas for the past 350 years are all wrong? It is baseless and illogical.

[Varavaken]

@TheRedNiece

Shugden was a minor mundane deity 350 years ago. Not a Buddha.

The head of Sakya tradition (Sakya Trizin) says that while some in his lineage made offerings to Shugden, he was always regarded as a MUNDANE PROTECTOR on the lowest level of the pantheon.

Stop your misinformation.

[Varavaken]

@dragonthunder2010

There is no Nechung-worship. Nobody takes refuge in Nechung. It´s spirit consultation. Some modern westerners listen to psychics and "channellers."

[dragonthunder2010]

When speaking against Dorje Shugden, part of the reasoning was that there is the danger of Buddhism degenerating into spirit worship. Yet no major decision is made by the Tibetan government in exile without consulting the state oracle, inspite of the many fatally wrong predictions made and advices given by Nechung.

[vinayahoIder]

"If one chooses to fly in the face of all the reasoning and still get involved in this form of worship, there is nothing that anyone can do about it. Whatever form of spirit worship one wants to do, it is up to oneself. Even if one chooses to close one's eyes to the evidence, without caring about the results of one's actions, I can do nothing about it. It is like the words, "I, Kachei Palu, have disclosed my secrets here, but whether you choose to listen or not is up to you". HHDL 6 DEC 2000

[TheRedNiece]

I think Vinayaholder has been hacked and is now talking rubbish

[vinayahoIder]

Wisdomfleeing, RedFlagNiece, KacheMuppet, ZamBlam, yadda yadda yadda, all the same person.

Makes you wonder - what is one person doing only 24/7, posing as different people, just to DISS the Dalai Lama.

Hmm, the only other people doing that are Chinese mainlanders working for the Propaganda Department.

[vinayahoIder]

There has to be something wrong from their side when they stress so much this forging of a relationship, but you can't actually meet Gyatso and talk to him! At Samye Ling, which I visited often at one time, the lamas came down to the kitchen and had a coffee quite often with the residents. Other groups I have been to their top brass is approachable at most reasonable times. KG is a recluse and the people around him are sycophants.

[dragonthunder2010]

I love this Christian saying ; Do unto others what you want others to do unto you.

If your enemy slaps you on your right cheek, you should give your left. He he ... amazing when you think of it all religion advices the same thing - compassion and kindness. If only we follow and not be selective in our hearing.

[TheRedNiece]

@dragonthunder2010 that's right! And Dorje Shugden exemplifies this. When he speaks to us via the oracle, he always advises practitioners never to speak against the dalai lama, but to be patient, kind and focus on our practice. That is real Dharma teaching and advice. How compassionate the protector is.

[dragonthunder2010]

You lose your house, wealth, children, husband, wives etc and reality check OH COUNTRY TOO!

So what's the big fat hang up. If we wanna stand up for humanity, spiritual freedom/autonomy and human rights, don't we need to sound it, show it, be it first???!!!

[zamzam24388]

To receive full protection from dharma protectors, we must never waver in our devotion to them to help us clear obstacles in our spiritual path.

[wangchub]

I live in a place without Dharma, where can I get prayers to DS? Can anyone help me please? I need a guide

[wisdombeing]

Wangchub.. please go to dorjeshugden. com and look under the prayers section. There is a range of prayers there, including my favourite, which is the Melody of the Unceasing Vajra, composed by HH 14th Dalai lama himself.

[TheDharmaKnight]

I came across this article of how HH Penor Rinpoche was unbiased and sympathetic towards Dorje Shugden monks due to the ban and he opened up Namdroling for these monks to get supplies.

It really is inspiring and uplifting to read this article... bit [.] ly [/] cbARTJ

[TheRedNiece]

@TheDharmaKnight I saw this article too - it proves how there IS NO SECTARIANISM at the highest level of practitioners. Penor Rinpoche is so inspiring - he shows us what it means to really practise Dharma which is to be kind, remember the suffering of others and provide relief to their needs and pain.

Such wonderful inspiration. Thank you to ds (dot) com for sharing this news

[dragonthunder2010]

@TheRedNiece YES I saw this also on that site! How amazing and inspiring.

Thank goodness amongst all this commotion there is still kindness and compassion.

This to me is Dharma. This is what move me and I believe people in general.

[TheDharmaKnight]

Just wanted to inform all that there is a newly launched website which is very informative, serpommonastery(dot)org. It is very inspiring to read about how this monastery started. There are many other sections such as news, monastic programs etc. Do check it out.

[zamzam24388]

@TheDharmaKnight : Thanks for the link. Very neat pictures of the place.

[cIoserelative]

Of course, even if the ban existed--which anyone who's attended HHDL's teachings knows it does not--what would it matter?

The one-and-only "Shugden lama" teaches that HHDL is a "liar and a hypocrite"--then they say "don't attend HHDL's teachings," then finally they make up a story about how "Shugden practitioners are banned from HHDL's teachings."

Sounds like a story made up to keep unwitting western NKT converts from discovering the truth--that there is no ban.

[zamzam24388]

Read the history and background of Dorje Shugden at dorjeshugden(dot)com. While you are at this site, browse through and read all the articles and view the pictures of high lamas with a brief history of each of their illustrious lives.

[TheDharmaKnight]

Why would anybody want to accuse and slander a buddhist organization, a deity, a Lama, 350 year old practice? Unless they do not believe in karma at all!

[closerelative]

leedhi spammers and all,

Gimme a break. If the NKT twists Dharma and ruin people's lives, why nobody says anything and nobody sues them? Come on... NKT is all over the world. Surely somebody must be able to see through and so something? Hence, your statement don't hold water.

[Ieedhi]

The NKT is a cult who takes Dharma teachings, twist them around to fit their own agenda, and leave peoples lives in ruins.

[fIoatinghippos]

moo

[closerelative]

You know what? If the Chinese have a link with Dorje Shugden practitioners, it is a good thing! It means that they have some link with Dharma. The Chinese have a chance to practice the Dharma too right? You see, you can't practice a protector without a yidam and that means they have to practice Lama Tsongkhapa too.

[zamzam24388]

Read TKs post in dorjeshugden(dot)com/forum ... Why would Dalai Lama act, talk and promote so many contradictory actions that makes himself look unstable. Unless it was on purpose. I believe that truly. He is not stupid. I agree with that statement why should HHDL subject himself to all these? Does he need all this negative publicity? I believe that HH is truly showing his compassionate nature by subjecting himself to all the blame that is put on him.

[Varavaken]

THE LINK BETWEEN SHUGDEN CULTISTS AND CHINA IS VERY CLEAR.

Shugden leaders and Chinese representatives have had regular meatings since 1999. It´s still going on.

[nostra120]

wow that hat looks heavy at 1.36. The king has an entourage thats why at the beginning of the video DS in full regalia, then later in the clip you see a smaller hat, this is one of his entourage / attendants. You can find out more about this at dorje shugden (dot) com.

[Varavaken]

Tsongkhapa is the founder of the Gelug tradition.

The Protectors are Vaishravana, Mahakala and Kalarupa.

No Shugden.

That´s Pabonkha´s revised version. He used DS to promote his own sectarian views, although the 13th Dalai Lama was against this practice.

Pabonkha´s Shugdenism was not derived from his lineage but by THE VOICE of Shugden.

Shugden groups are now collaborating with China to bring down the Dalai Lama.

That is political.

[TheDharmaKnight]

King Dorje Shugden, emanation of Manjushri, May I have your blessings to cut my delusions to be of benefit to others.

Dorje Shugden have helped so many people and able to take on such much criticisms clearly shows who he is. I hope that despite the hurts and dissapointments we experience today, we will never give up our practice.

[KacheMarp0]

Incidentally, HH Trijang Dorjechang is allowed to practice - given permission by Dalai Lama to practice. So if DS is a demon, why would the Dalai Lama allow HH Trijang Dorjechang to practice it, especially if doing so would shorten the Dalai Lamas life and threaten Tibets fight for independence as the Dalai Lama has said.

[KacheMarp0]

I don't think any of us here can judge whether a being is enlightened or not. Only the highly attained Lamas can. Therefore, since the 5th Dalai Lama has written praises to DS, since HH the Dalai Lama himself wrote praises to DS, since HH Trijang Dorjechang has written extensively on DS and continues to propitiate him in his new incarnation, and many other respected Lamas, DS must be enlightened.

[Varavaken]

vinayaholder

"March 10, 50th aniversary of THE TIBETAN UPRISING unleashed a tsunami of anti_Tibetan bloggers quoting extensively from Helmut Gassner, self proclaimed expert on all things Tibetan."

[Varavaken]

Shugden leaders and Chinese representatives have had regular meetings since 1999. And these meetings are still going on.

The link between Shugden cultists and The People´s republic of China is very clear.

[vinayaholder]

AND:

Due to his skill as a Buddhist master, the thirteenth Dalai Lama requested Kyabje Phabongka to give the yearly Lamrim teachings in 1925, instead of asking the Ganden throneholder (Ganden Tripa) as was customary. Usually these teachings lasted seven days, but these lasted for eleven days.

[vinayaholder]

According to the Western monk Helmut Gassner, the Dalai Lama's translator for 17 years: "It is said that when Pabongka Rinpoche gave Dharma discourses many in the audience gained profound insights into the failings of our worldly concerns to develop the lasting determination to exchange the constant quest for honor, praise, well-being and gain with sincere aspiration, kindness and concern for others."

[vinayaholder]

Pabongka Rinpoche was the first Gelug teacher who taught lay persons outside the monasteries and became very influential. In his memoir of his root Guru, Rilbur Rinpoche said: "When he taught he would sit for up to eight hours without moving. About two thousand people would come to his general discourses and initiations and fewer to special teachings, but when he gave Bodhisattva vows, up to ten thousand people would show up."

[TheDharmaKnight]

There has been countless debates from lay and ordained people, if this spirit is a benevolent deity or an agent of evil.

Some Gelugpas view him as a dharmapala, or protector god, while others view him as a murderous demon who punishes Gelugpa monks who engage in Nyingmapa teachings.

I appreciate all the videos being posted in youtube as it gives a an opportunity to learn. May all forms of BuddhaDharma grow!

[TheDharmaKnight]

Again, in the fifteenth year of the term Regent Sonam Chophel, also known as Sonam Rabten, in the Fire-Monkey year of the 11th Sexagenary Cycle, in 1656, the reincarnate Lama of Drepung Zimkhang Ghongma known as Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen, was unjustly assassinated out of jealousy by stuffing a silk scarf into his throat.

[TheDharmaKnight]

Scholars disagree about the historical origin of Dorje Shugden From the beginning the continuity of Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen was obscured by official sources, because he is believed to have been assassinated.

[TheDharmaKnight]

Tibetans like to give as a reason that Dorje Shugden was surrounded by conflict from the very beginning. The Fourteenth Dalai Lama himself refers to a conflict between the [Fifth] Dalai Lama and Tulku Dragpa Gyaltsen, with reference to the autobiography of the Fifth Dalai Lama and his Secret Visions, quoted in the Kashag Announcement of May 22, 1996. He also refers to conflict between deities from that time in a public teaching on March 10, 1996, Dharamsala.

[Varavaken]

BUDDHAS DO NOT SPEAK THROUGH ORACLES; SPIRITS DO.

PABONGKHAS SHUGDENISM WAS NOT DERIVED FROM HIS LINEAGE BUT BY THE VOICE OF SHUGDEN. HE USED SHUGDEN TO PROMOTE HIS OWN SECTARIAN VIEWS. Tsongkhapa was the founder of the Gelug tradition. Pabongkha changed it.

[pathseeker9]

@Varavaken Do you have any textual proof? I am really interested in oracles and demons and I've read "Oracles and Demons of Tibet" by Rene de Nebesky-Wojkowitz and what it said about Shugden are all positive.

By the way, Buddhas do not speak through oracles, it's the emanation of the Buddhas that does. Because we do not have the merits to communicate directly with the Buddhas.

[Varavaken]

pathseeker9

Yes, but is Shugden an emanation of a Buddha? Or is he an interfering spirit, a damsi jungpo? They are very difficult and powerful...

[vinayaholder]

Tsongkhapa founded an entirely new lineage based on teachings from all existing schools at that time. What he did was revolutionary but did he face so much criticism?

Pabongka merely narrowed the focus of Gelug practice down to the guru, yidam and protector. He did not discount other deities or practices, but recommeded and propitiated those that are most effective at this time. Any gelug practitioner should take a good look at their lineage gurus - more often than not, HH Pabongkapa is there

[Varavaken]

TheRedNiece

I´ve seen all your comments by now. You speak with a soft voice, pretending to respect the Dalai Lama - but you promote that WSS-book without a writer. You are such a hypocrite.

I think "The Yellow Book" was based on Trijang Rimpoche´s words, so why don´t you read it?

Do you worship this wordly deity? Somehow i doubt it.

[TheRedNiece]

by the way, in 1996, it is a well known fact (and u can read in the "Great Deception" book by WSS that Tib Govt ordered a Hayagriva Tamding to exorcise DS. (This was the same ritual done that Guru Rinpoche used to subdue Nechung).

The very next day, DS took trance through and oracle and he is STILL not destroyed. Why is that? Why can't he be destroyed or even controlled? it's probably because he's on the same "level" as our lamas and Buddhas.

[TheRedNiece]

asianajana: if ds was so bad, then why don't the lamas just do a big ritual to bind and control him? why don't they just destroy him? There are so many very, very powerful practices in Buddhism to bind very powerful spirits. Why can't the lamas do it? Apparently, they have been trying to do rituals to subdue him since 5th dalai lama, but they have never succeeded. Is that because this spirit is more powerful than the lamas and the buddhas? It can't be.

OR is it that DS himself is a buddha!??!

[Tibsoccerguy8]

hey Shuden

you wanna give me a blow job for a buck?

YOu fucking stupid homo,, how fucked up are u?

bitch ass

[DharmaDefender]

Yes oracles aren't just random people you pick up off the street. They undergo many years of intensive retreats and continue to do so throughout their years as oracles. They are always put through some tests every time they take trance, to make sure it is the same deity that enters them. One test when they take trance is they must answer questions posed to them 40-50 years ago when it was a totally different oracle. The answer they give must be EXACTLY the same as the one previously given.

[KacheMarp0]

Asiana - also, you mentioned that you don't know what you receive inside you. I presume you are talking about the oracles. Oracles undergo tremendous training and they only go into trance when a qualified Lama is present to ensure that the 'correct' being is taking trance. So there is quite strict 'quality control' :)

[KacheMarp0]

If Shugden is a spirit, the Dalai Lama and other high lamas should do a puja and bind him so that he doesn't do any more 'harm'. But this has not been done. In fact, when Dorje Shugden first manifested in the time of the 5th Dalai Lama, he tried to do a binding ritual on Dorje Shugden but failed. Then the 5th Dalai Lama realised DS was an enlightened Being and began to propitiate him. He wrote prayers to DS, handcrafted his statue and built the first temple, Trode Kangsar, for Dorje Shugden.

[Varavaken]

KasheMarp0

Is a spirit enlightened just because it`s powerful? How on earth are you thinking?

Do you think at all?

[KacheMarp0]

Asiana - i agree with what RedNiece said. My experience with DS practitioners has been more good than bad. Especially with respected Lamas like HE Gangchen Lama. Different Dharma centres do have different rules and ways of worship and study. Centres are run by people who are fallible and if one centre's way does not agree with you, it should not reflect on the power or validity of Dorje shugden.

[Asianajana]

I didnt speak about bad practicioners. I speak about Shugdens bad influence to gelugpa. You cant control that spirit, it is very strong mental energy. You dont know what do you receive inside you because you are not sammasambuddha.

[TheRedNiece]

btw, There's some really good discussion going on in the dorjeshugden (dot) com forum about why the Dalai Lama vs DS face-off and a good alternative view that perhaps they are actually working together to spread the Dharma.

Makes sense - after all, Dharma is growing bigger than it ever has in the world and DS is the most famous deity in the world and media right now, practised by milions, and counting...!

[TheRedNiece]

asianajana: there is nothing in DS sadhanas, practices or prayers that supports sectarianism or criticism of other sects. DS helps to preserve and spread the teachings of Je Tsongkhapa but it's NOT at the expense of other sects. I have met many DS lamas, who never speak a bad word against other sects & in fact, encourage practitioners from other sects to strengthen their own practices & schools of Buddhism. I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but pls don't generalise about all DS practitioners.

[Asianajana]

Dordje Shugden followers are sectarians against other schools ningmapa, dzogcchen, kagyu, sakjapa. I met many sectarians in centers of Diamond Way Buddhism (Lama Ole Nydahls and false Karmapas school). I must left their meditation center, because i practised different kind of meditation. In cult of Shugden you cant mix more budhistic traditions, you must practise only one way, you cant read books of other teachers... Its against spirit of all three vehicles in Buddhism. It is false Dharma.

[thepurpleaster]

If kopan monastery were to perpetuate Dorje Shugden again, I am certain their wonderful Meitreya project will resume and grow swiftly again. So many High Lamas practice Dorje Shugden so that their Dharma work and activities spread fast. Just look at them, their results, it is all to spread Dharma, hence what's so wrong in wanting to spread Dharma far and wide to the world swiftly? We should rejoice!

[thepurpleaster]

Before Tsawa Pulthok Rinpoche passed away in 2008, he gave this statue to Gangchen Ladrang, Nepal. This holy statue is being propitiated in Gangchen Ladrang ever since. see the beautiful Dorje Shugden statue belonging to Lama Yeshe at dorjeshugden(dot)com

[thepurpleaster]

There is so many high illustrious lamas practising Dorje Shugden. Even HE Lama Yeshe in his previous life use to practise Dorje Shugden. He never gave up his commitments to his Gurus, but after Lama Yeshe passed away n the Dorje Shugden issue became big, Kopan Monastery gave away this statue to Tsawa Pulthok Rinpoche (from Drepung Loseling Monastery) in Nepal.

[thepurpleaster]

If Dorje Shugden is a spirit then why can't the high Lamas and the Dalai Lama just subdue Dorje Shugden like they did to Nechug to serve them?

And if Doje Shugden is a spirit and therefore it is wrong in Buddhism to rely on spirit then why do they still perpetuate Nechug who is a spirit? I don't get these people?! So illogical!

[harrynephew]

OMG!!!!

Why dint I see this video any earlier???????!!!!

Can u guys see how much compassion the Lord Protector has for his entire countenance. Imagine his power and presence the size of one world system(or even a huge office building) all crammed into a human body. Imagine such greatness come to your presence to fulfill all your needs in order to attain Buddhahood.

I make prostration to this lord of Wisdom, Manjushri Dorje Shugden.

[wisdombeing]

This is the hottest story online it seems. And rightly so. When high Lamas like HH Gaden Trisur stand up for what he believes in and even moves his ladrang to Shar Gaden, it really is a strong statement to the TGIE that Dorje Shugden followers are going to be coming out more and more and more.

[thepurpleaster]

NEW NEWS!!! HH Gaden Trisur- 101th Throne Holder of Lama Tsongkhapa have joined Shar Gaden Monastery. Gaden Trisur is a very high ranking Lama n is the student of the previous Kyabje Trijang Dorje Chang.

NOW 2 big ladrangs from Shartse has left n joined Shar Gaden; Trijang Rinpoche's and Gaden Trisur's. So are they maintaining a "mistaken" practise n for what logical reasons wld they? If it's evil/bad/sactarian, why continue? Pls think. Visit dorje shugden site n get d facts.

[truth1888]

No matter how much the Tibetan govt has done rituals, ceremonies and pujas to destroy, bind, or kill Dorje Shugden they are not able to.

It is amazing how many times they have tried. They have called high lamas from all Schools of Buddhism to eradicate Dorje Shugden yet they cannot.

What does that tell you, that they don't have enough power combined together against one Dorje Shugden?

Simple. Dorje Shugden is a Buddha and cannot be destroyed.

[Varavaken]

wisdombeing, closerelative, TheReadNiece etc. Shugden followers pretending to be outsiders. Hypocrites.

[wisdombeing]

i looked at 21perusals points (hey man, you been gone a year!). yeah good points. I agree with RedNiece - it can't be that Chenrezig is fickle. There's def a bigger picture here. We just gotta figure it out. I dunno much about this controversy tho i'm learning fast! but i thought Buddhism is supposed to be about peace, not all this conflict and hatred, man! Isn't it?

[closerelative]

How can a mere powerful spirit like Dorje Shugdan harm the Dalai Lama? If his students who practice the protector harms his life, then the Dalai Lama must have been harmed a long time ago when most of his students practices this spirit.

[TheRedNiece]

21perusal: great points & questions. Moreover, we believe Dalai Lama to be Avalokiteshvara, a fully enlightened being. How is it that he could do a practice for so many years and then "suddenly realise" it is bad / wrong? Would Avalokiteshvara make a mistake like that? Is Avalokiteshvara fickle?

Or is there a larger reason which the Dalai Lama has for this ban which we cannot understand yet?

[snowlandtulku]

om vajer veki meta na yi so ha

i from hong kong

顶礼 大王大力金刚多杰雄殿，

[chamso333]

DALAI LAMA LONG LIFE LONG LIFE .....

fuk all believe that shit things

[sageunr]

Free Tibet

I LOVE Tibet

Peace of the World

Let's stop killing world all of you.

New New World Order　国際連盟ＳＡＧＥテーマソング「ピース・オブ・ザ・ワールド」♪ KAZUKI&SIZUKU ♪ United Nations SAGE Theme Song「Peace of the World」・(KAZUKI)2009年 国連ユネスコ世界遺産音楽祭エグゼグティブプロデューサー

ASIA政治経済協力機構 代表中井天山

[truth1888]

THE DALAI LAMA IS GOING TO COURT!!

Indian High court in New Delhi is summoning Dalai Lama to court due to his unconstitutional ban on the ancient practice of Dorje Shugden on his own people.

In India where there are so many religions and their subsects, it is unheard of that a secular/religious leader can issue such a ban.

It has shocked the Indian psyche.

Preliminary hearings have began.

Aljazeera news has a special report. It is posted on the youtube.

Get Updated!

[iwannaberich2007]

Why does HH the Dalai Lama need to repeat his 'warnings' re Dorje Shugden so many times. If Dorje Shugden truly was a demon and harmful, then HH and other high lamas should just subdue him through ritual. After all Nechung is an evil spirit, subdued by Guru Rinpoche and bound to help. After being subdued, you dont hear Guru Rinpoche warning us re him anymore. So if Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued by HH or high lamas, then he must be more powerful than the Dalai Lama??Or he is enlightened.Think.

[TheRandomGrabber]

Gangchen Tulku the philandering disco monk. should be arrested for possession of contraband endangered leopard skin. Shugden people are big losers, give it up spirit worshippers

[buddhafollower]

21perusal, what you don't know, cannot harm you.

[huvanlee]

many tibetans including H.H.DALAI LAMA has experienced that shugden does more HARM than benefit.

DALAI LAMA is like a parent of only child for the tibetans.

if your only child wants to commit suicide, what would you do as a good parent?

definatly you will say NO.

but some stupid people, like a spoild child does not understand this.

SO SAD

[hcn9]

dalai liar can go suck my dick. what he did is called religious oppression. something he always accuses china of

[pepitoos]

Sometimes the compassion is very strange... we are only humans beings.

[21perusal]

Hi guys. How about a few facts in this discussion? The 5th Dalai Lama wrote the first prayer to Dorje Shugden identifying him as a Wisdom Buddha. OK? The 14th Dalai Lama (one living now) also wrote prayers to Shugden identifying him as a wisdom Buddha.

Why is the 14th DL right now and wrong for 25 or more years when he prayed to Shugden as a Buddha? Are you really saying he was wrong for 25yr but he is right now? If you are then on what basis? Dough balls and dream visions? Gimme a break

[in3d8field]

@21perusal

Great questions.

[shantigardennepal]

as westerner I am upset with gullable westerners who have a culture of friendliness and tolerance and should investigatre never follow blindly.

For the tibetans I can only pray government and religion can be separated and this crazy discussion stops. I believe what I like but buddhists defenitely destroyed buddhist practice!

[tashidb]

Worship of this so called "Dharma Protector" is completely un-Buddhist. First as said by Oldfoz, he is not enlighten and thus we can not take refuge from this spirit. Second, his teaching is completely against the teaching of Guru Rinpoche, thus you can consider his teaching as non-buddhist.

[bravebhoba]

These of some of retarded Tibetans brain washed by Chinese, and sponsored by Chinese government. You pigs, don't call yourself a Tibetan. Such a petty narrow minded people following the Chinese wish.

[iwannaberich2007]

Why does HH the Dalai Lama need to repeat his 'warnings' re Dorje Shugden so many times. If Dorje Shugden truly was a demon and harmful, then HH and other high lamas should just subdue him through ritual.After all Nechung is an evil spirit, subdued by Guru Rinpoche and bound to help. After being subdued, you dont hear Guru Rinpoche warning us re him anymore. So if Dorje Shugden cannot be subdued by HH or high lamas, then he must be more powerful than the Dalai Lama?? Or he is enlightened.Think.

[iwannaberich2007]

There was much more unity among the Tibetan ppl before the Dorje Shugden ban. Having this ban has not benefitted anyone. There should be zero religious repression inside and outside of Tibet.

HH Dalai Lama should accept all Tibetans irregardless of their relgious orientation. No Tibetans should ever be ostracized due to their religious beliefs. HH should accept and welcome everyone as a Relgious Leader of 6 million Tibetans.

Go to this website and read more

dorjeshugden(dot)com.

[kekeyla]

HH is being "RUDE" by bannin shugden followers from doin many things,

and STOP calling Ghost to who eva u feel like, learn da history well,n den u'l know.

hh is jus sacred and nothing else he just wants the oda tibetans to be with him.

=]

[DARPULING]

The chinese keeps saying that the issue of Tibet is a pravite interest of H.H the Dalai Lama. Donnot fall into this trap my dear brothers and sisters. We should help H.H in anyways we can to lighten the pressure over him.

I suggest you take some time to review our past history when pursuing modren knowledge...

[DARPULING]

I believe both H.H the Dalai Lama and the"Dharma Protector"or the"Ghost" will agree that Tibet is a culture, not just an individual!

May all beings be out of sufferings. Om Mani Ped Me Hung!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DARPULING]

I'd like to coorect you both:firstly, the war between Sera and the Government is a shame and a lesson for Tibetan. One monastery went against the government, what a shame was it? If every monastery acts that way, how Tibet to regain its international status as a sovereign state? I'd suggest you go into deeper what and how was it happened.

Secondly, H.H the Dalai Lama is part of Tibetan Government. The government should have more,much more than that logically.

[tibboy88]

Don't make joke! he is Buddha. I tell you he is just small door keeper or guard in the monastery.

[ChoesangDolkar]

hey young boy go to your american rap this story is to deep for you or better go to study tibetan history that would be good for you.

[tibboy88]

My little girl I studied Tibet history more than you and well known the situation too. off course I'm living in Tibet(Lhasa) not like you in swizerland hunging without doing for Tibet and its people. My adivise is that do what ever you like for the protector, do not make troubles for Tibet issue. I think you don't know the leader of Tibetan people, study more Tibetan history.

[ChoesangDolkar]

first of all i am not a little girl but a man and i am also from tibet lhasa from a aristocrate family and my grand father serve for many many years the 13th dalai lama so i know the real story about my country and if you really studied tibetan history than you should know all the mistake made from the tibetan gouvernment starting from the war between sera monastery and the gouvernment

[tibboy88]

I knew some of aristocrate families of Tibet, they used to worship the ghost but we will listen to the Dalai Lama what he said of the protector. That small conflict between sera and the government was not related with the protectors. won't you know?

I also knew that Dalai Lama is seeking geniune autonomy, which means Tibetan could prosperty freedom under China. Thats very good I think. Anyway I am very pleased that you are talking for Tibet issue...

[ChoesangDolkar]

so if you think that dorgé shugden is a ghost than between 1950 to 1975 the 14th dalai lama used to worship a ghost also??????????? and all the hight masters like trijang rimpoche (the master of the 14ht dalai lama)and all the great masters of the sakya tradition they all used to worship a ghost?????????? i thought bouddhas dont make mistake!!

[tibboy88]

If you want to ba a beautiful girl of Tibetan, don't go on wrong way! Even HH correct the way from mistake. You and your family couldn't compare to Nobel Peace Prize laurante and US highest Congressional Gold Medal winner. I can tell you that no one couldn't destory the love between HH and Tibetan people.

All beings could make mistake even the buddha himself correct the wrong way that he give up his royal living. won't you know it my little girl? I means your spirit is tiny.

[ChoesangDolkar]

the love between HH and the tibetan people are already destroyed thanks to tibetan gouvernment.

and how many time should i tell you that i am not a GIRL or maybe you have a brain problem?

[tibboy88]

Anyway you are girl or women. I already told you that your sprit is little. Just open up your mind and eyes! Not only listen your orthodox father and mother.

I don't unstand what u mean the Tibetan government destroyed love between HH and Tibetan people?? Tibetan consider Government of Tibet is HH. Won't you think?? That's why i told you little girl! This is the result of worship to ghost and still you will become narrow minded!

[gelbi100]

so for you to be girl means to have little spirit becareful what you are writing your mother could not be happy and honnestly i am tired, there is no sense to write to someone like you how have any knowledge and who knows nothing deep about this.

[najein]

Yo Tibboy88,

through your "knowledge" from studying in Tibet about the Dorje Shugen, you have to enlighten me a little on the subject of your reason behind your persistance in calling and labeling him as a ghost.

If he is infact a ghost Why is everyone so afraid of him. HOW can a ghost be so STRONG? Why is this even an issue?-->Why doesn't the HH just like kill him in a matter of days?

Why is THE HH scared of HIM? (in the first place)

[tibboy88]

Yap..najein

Ok I can tell you that no one is afraid to him. Buddhist belive that being could reincanate after death, with that reason Tibetan Buddhist belives that with the 10th site reaches protector could save us, but the ghost is not reach even fist site level, how could he save us, even himself is not enlighten.

[tibboy88]

So he is just like human beings and if you worship him, it's meaningless. And if you neglect or forgot to worship him then he revenge to you. So do you think that he is a protector? What is the meaning of protector?? In Tibet many lamas and their follower used to worship him in many years, so it's not easy them immediately stop him from their mind. So it is a big issue among Tibetan society.

[najein]

Don't misunderstand me, I respect the HH completely and GREATLY. But this concept of Dorje Shugden being ghost confuses me. I have been exposed to both sides and it doesn't make sense to me. So, Explain smart one, and who has studied Tibetan history in Tibet (I hope your answer is not as biased as you appear to be).

[tibboy88]

HH is never harm to anybody he is a compassion buddha. HH knows that he harms people, then explain to the people how is he. At the same HH said that we have our choice or freedom about the protecto for worshipping.. HH never banned our freedom...

[najein]

But didn't he "ban" people who workship the "ghost" from coming to his concerts or speeches? I saw him in Montreal a few year ago and he mentioned the same thing.

[tibboy88]

Of course HH will tell people that do not come to his concert or speeches, because it's different worship path. HH is not worshiping a human being orecle. Don't you know it??

[najein]

no man sorry!

I'm new to all of this, I've just recently been (Well i've always been buddhist) "educated?" in buddhism and about Tibet.

Thanks for your quick responses!

[zitronade]

HH has not only 1 human being oracle, he has 5 of them. One of them is the Nechung, the others are two women and two men. Don't you know it? There's also a movie existing when H.H. consulted those five oracles, but not here on youtube.

[TIBETANGOVERNMENT]

if you want to know the truth about dorje shugden than write on google: Tibetan Studies Press Office and then go on your left side: VIDEOS ON YOUTUBE.

[oldfoz]

As I was reading through the comments, I found out that you are viewing this issue as a third person and that's really important. "Dorje Shugden" is a spirit who has not reached the ultimate ten step. Because of this, worshiping him is considered as violating the most fundamental laws of Tibetan Buddhism (Kyabdo, in Tibetan). If any person worships or refuges to this spirit, then he cannot claim that his is Buddhist. I reckon my little knowledge will help you clarify your confusion.

[ChoesangDolkar]

and of cause i know who are the leaders of tibet and just for your information the dalai lama dont want tibetan freedom and want tibet under china.

[ChoesangDolkar]

and how do you want to fight for the freedom of tibet when there is no little freedom for our own people to believe what they want?????????????????????

[ChoesangDolkar]

and how do you want to fight for the freedom of tibet when there is no little freedom for our own people to believe what they want?????????????????????

[ChoesangDolkar]

he is a émanation of manjushri.

[BabylonMister]

I sincerely rely on Dorje Shugden as my Dharma Protector, the source of all my happiness.

[agnayogini]

Best and most compassionate Dharma Protector of this time ! May all beings be happy and all conflicts end through the practise of loving kindness.

[dorjeshugden]

If Dorje Shugden is such an EVIL spirit, and many high lamas had done rituals to kill him, why is Dorje Shugden still taking trance today as if nothing has harmed him? Doesn't this make us think that maybe Dorje Shugden is not an evil spirit, but actually a Buddha?