The Latin Vulgate, as translated by Jerome circa 400 A.D., had such an overpowering dominance for over a thousand years that many subsequent versions of the Bible, especially the King James Version (KJV), simply carried forward the translation and interpretation errors to varying degrees in support of the doctrine of hell.
It was Jerome who mistranslated and misinterpreted important age-related Hebrew and Greek words when translating them from original Manuscripts into the Latin Vulgate. He did this to support the doctrine of hell, which was a pagan belief that had already been embraced and established in the Roman Catholic Church by the time Jerome came to write the Latin Vulgate.
Hm...the Old Testament prophets were heretics. Jesus himself was a heretic. John Wycliffe and Martin Luther were heretics. Now Rob Bell is a heretic, hm? It's funny how pretty much every reformer EVER was labeled a heretic by whatever religious people were in charge at the time. The cycle never really ends, does it? xD
Good for you, Rob, sticking up for your church! I'm glad he's not letting the haters tear him down :)
Have never read his book, but I would say this. If it is not in agreement with the Bible - RUN! Lots of doctrines being taught from the Bible. In fact, the Bible says that doctrines of demons would be taught in in the last days. Not saying this man is doing that because I have never read his book or attended his church. However, seems to be lots of follks saying that he is teaching heresies. I would just encourage people to be careful about following any man.
Blasphemy is the working against the spirit of God? that doesn't sound like a correct statement? I can see why people follow Rob, especially when he appeals to them being victimised for being followers of his Mars Hill. A warning though, this is a similar arguement to that which Hitler made to the German people regarding the Jews.
"But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice," (NIV)
I only pray that my video... book... life... will cause even the tiniest amount of discussion about the things that matter most.
@bocajjp1 well in the gospels when they mention the man the rich man that dies and goes to hell he said he saw Abraham and God but there was an eternal void he asked for help but it was not given why because hell is eternal seperation from God
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness
Beware of the wolf in Shepard's Clothing not the sheep. If you are at Mars Hill I pray you come to the truth of the gospel and find church that preaches the true gospel.
I have sought the Lord out ever since I was a young boy. Never-ever, do I judge those who call upon Jesus, because I know that God will reveal those who are His by their fruits--remember, by their fruits they will know that they are His. Who am I to accuse any believer? Nobody does right nobody, not me Jonathan Cohen, not Mark Driscoll, John Piper, John Hagee, Billy Graham, or Rob Bell; we are all under God's grace. The Lord commanded us to love one another, love must be written on your heart!
@bocajjp1 Those who call upon which Jesus, the mormon jesus? The jesus of Islam? The jesus of the watchtower society? What do you mean by "fruit"? Is "fruit" people that are nice, that have a nice smile or do nice things?
BTW, Gamaliel's quote came from Gamaliel, not from God.
@bocajjp1 Actually your conclusion is incorrect because if that were true then the Mormon church is "of God" as well as the Chruch of Scientology and the Jehovah's witnesses and every Islamic temple because they're all successful with millions of followers.
See, Gamaliel's "principle" is not a God principle.
@cqqrzgth Brother, its ok that you have questions (discourse) about the authority (validity of use) of ALL scripture as it is written (so also do people at Mars Hill have questions---its okay, it refines your faith in Him when look to ALL the scriptures & find God's truth, not man's interpretation). But, keep in mind that restraint from being judgemental is at the heart of bearing fruit & IS God's principle, ""Do not stop him", Jesus said, "for whowever is not against us is for us""(Lk.5:50).
@bocajjp1 I don't have an issue with scripture, it is the word of God. What I do have issue is with your poor use of it. The reason I mentioned those other religions is because they all have a "jesus" of their own invention just as Rob Bell has a "jesus" of his own invention so just because a church is big or prosperous and has lot's of people in it doesn't mean that that church is "of God". Also, Gamaliel was NOT a believer and was not speaking on behalf of God or prophesying. Use your head!
@cqqrzgth Just because people go to a bible believing church also doesn't mean their of God either, nor does it mean people who are in an emerging church are not saved--the bible is clear that belief and confession of Yeshua (the Creator of the universe) allows to partake in His salvation through grace. If you judge, Rob Bell, then that measurement needs to be used on you...Ask the Lord for a loving heart, one that demonstrates God's unconditional love, God is His Word/Logos, He alone can judge!
@bocajjp1 Actually I can judge what people teach based on the word of God and again I have found Rob Bell to be a false teacher who preaches a false gospel. I don't need to ask God for a loving heart because that has nothing to do with Bell's false teaching. It's not UNloving to say that something is false.
@cqqrzgth Who are you to judge the heart of man, only Messiah has authority to do that-you might be an Evangelical---thats great that you're a brother, but your not Ha Elyon/The Most High. You pass judgement on a brother based on your own Calvanist Reformed doctrine; you don't know if Rob Bell knows the Messiah, or that he is on his way to hell.-In fact, thats why Rob Bell wrote his book in the first place, because too many Christians are passing judgement on the full body of believers.
@bocajjp1 I don't recall where I judged Bell's heart, I judged his doctrine and found it to be erroneous. Your mentioning of reformed doctrine is irrelevant, presumptuous and also has no bearing to the discussion. That's a red herring.am I to judge? Well Jesus said to beware of false teachers so how can I "beware" if I don't exercise biblical judgement?
@cqqrzgth You call Rob a false teacher, yet, he meets the fundamental requirements for him to be saved; furthermore, all the believers at Mars Hill that accept Yeshua into their heart as their Messiah--they cannot do that without the work of the Ruah HaKodesh/Holy Spirit (Rm.14:17,1Cr.12:7,1Pe.4:10); you have no authority under the grace of Yeshua to be an accuser of the Brethern. Rob Bell doesn't need your support, or any other person to use the Name of Yeshua Ha Moshiah (Acts.19:13).
@cqqrzgth You mention other religions so much; but, they are one in the same (idolaters)they worship created things (idols), not the Creator). The Lord says you recognize those who truly belong to God by their fruits (Jn.15). In Gal.5, Cr.13, & in the Gospels we understand that love is the greatest commandment, first to God, then to others. Look at the fruit of Islam & the distress it causes, Mormons-ask a Black man about their racist theology, their seeds bear bad fruit, because they love not
@bocajjp1 Fruit as it's taught in scripture is not merely "being nice" so just because someone smiles and helps people out or does "good deeds", does not automatically equal good fruit. The Mormons do more "good deeds" than most christian but the fact remains that they preach a false gospel and proclaim a false christ. Rob Bell also preaches a false gospel and a false christ.
@bocajjp1 Why do I judge them? Because as a believer it is my responsability to judge what others teach. I have judged what they teach there as compared to the word of God and found them to be false. On the authority of scripture I have the right to tell others of this as well because that's what believers who love thei fellow brethren do. (Romans 16:17)
@cqqrzgth Yes, you quoted from Romans, good, but diid you not read also; "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things" (Rm.2:1). Are you saying that Rob Bell isn't saved by the blood Yeshua, eventhough he confesses with his mouth, and states that he believes in his heart that Yeshua is Lord, and that no one can come to the Father, except by Yeshua?
@bocajjp1 Yea, Paul is addressing those who are guilty of doing the same things that they accuse others of so since I'm not out preaching false doctrines,, false gospels, etc then this verse really has no bearing here. Rob Bell preaches a false gospel and according to Galatians 1, he is accursed by doing so. Not my words, the Holy Spirit's.
@bocajjp1 Can you please point me to where I judged Bell's heart? As I recall, it was his doctrine that I judged and I have the right according to scripture to do that.
@cqqrzgth Brother, may the Lord Yeshua bless you continually as we all seek His presence in our lives....You have the right to call out anybody--yes, scripture provides preprove by seeing if it lines up with truth of the Word. However, you cannot 'assume' Robs' belief in Yeshua/Jesus is false (his assumptions about hell may dangerous ideas of God's grace, but that doesn't mean Rob doesn't put his trust in Jesus). Niether does it mean that Mars Hill congregants aren't truly saved by Jesus.
@cqqrzgth By placing Rob Bell in with groups who deny Jesus, such as Muslims & JW's, or the Mormons & thier critical departure from the Bible (Word of God) by way of the book of Mormon; presents certain issues that arise because he doesn't deny Jesus. He states, as well as Mars Hill's website that they uphold Jesus as the only way to salvation; it is by their belief in the 'mystery' of salvation that they diverge, not their faith & salvation in Yeshua/Jesus, but their differeing view of details
@bocajjp1 Well, anyone can have a statement of what they "believe" but unfortunately the one at his church is vague at best. The bottom line is that Rob Bell is a false teacher who preaches a false gospel with a false jesus. Sorry but we have a very thick bible for a reason...it makes sure to cover the "details" of which Bell subtly departs so yes, he fits right in with the Mormons and the JW's and anyone else who brings another jesus.
@cqqrzgth Yes, but it is also writtten in John; "You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one" (Jn.8:25). Therefore, whatever your are judging is not soley based on the Word of God, but based on your understanding, interpretation, and canonical importance that you weigh certain scriptures over. As far as 'the details', yes the Bible has many details; but also many interpretations to go along with that--thats why there are over 50,000 movements & streams within the Christian Family.
@bocajjp1 OK then, so basically the bible is a bog free for all and anyone can say whatever they want and it's all ok? Cool, well I think that Jesus is really Oprah Winfrey reincarnated and that when people die they all go to Denny's and eat grand slam breakfasts for all of eternity. Am I wrong?
@cqqrzgth Any major theologian will tell you that Christianity isn't a unified religion, its a relationship with Yeshua. Really, the only major theme that is recognized by the majority of Christians is the Nicene Creed (325 AD). Other than that, there is no real consensus agreement within Christianity other than monotheism & the diety of Jesus as God-thats it. Various view points start to arise the more 'details' start to enter. Only the Lord can separate the wheat from the tares (Mt.13:36-43)
@bocajjp1 See, Mt.13 is just your interpretation and understanding. I think what Jesus meant in Mt.13 is that there's good Karma and bad Karma and that we need to burn incense and breath in good feelings and exhale bad ones. That's my understanding...am I wrong?
@cqqrzgth Actually, the reason why I 'disarmed myself of understanding' is to show you that anyone that is judging an interpretation of the Bible, is ONLY based on what THEY understand the Bible to be. I am lawyer by profession, schooled in advanced theology & law from Standford, YET--I lean not on my own understanding because all I boast about is Adonai, & what my Lord did when He bore the cup of ALL sins while being hung on a tree.
@bocajjp1 The reason you disarmed yourself is because you have the typical post modern mindset when it comes to what God's word says and means. You see because of what you've done I can counter with your own piss poor logic and simply say that's just your interpretation. However if I were to probe things more specifically I would find out how and why your interpretations were either right or wrong. Please spare me your accolaids because they don't impress. Finney was a lawyer AND a heretic!
@cqqrzgth So then how do we know that we're not following man through interpretation of the Bible, instead of God's Living Word? It is written in the scriptures that every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three wintesses, because one witness is not enough to convict someone of an offense (2 Cr 13.1, Dt 19:15, Mt 18:16). We not only have the Word of God, but we have His promise of another witness of His truth, the Holy Spirit, who teaches us (Jn.14:26, 16:13, 1 Cr 2:10).
@cqqrzgth We also have a third witness, that also testifies to God's truth, we have the work of faith that is witnessed & can be seen in the fruit that one bears, as it is written, "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit" (Lk 6:43, Mt 7:17,12:33). These three witnesses reveal who serve God & who serve themselves. So until Mars Hill Church distances themselves from the Spirit, Word, or faith with works, how can you otherwise prove they are heritics without judging?
@bocajjp1 Funny though that when the Galatians embraced the false gospel of the Judaizers, Paul never once appealed to your "logic". So with that, I would like to know where the bible teaches that after people die that they will get another opportunity to give poor old Jesus a chance to be the Lord of their lives? See, that's part of Marshill's "gospel" and I have yet to see a verse that supports it so you just cough it up and we'll call it a day.
@cqqrzgth First, love the Lord you God by keeping His Name holy--never refer to the Lord as poor old Jesus (even attempting to make a statement--it shows spiritual immaturity brother to desecrate His Name--kept Holy is His Name (Lv 22:32)..Don't go the way of the judgemental Pharisees, instead, be filled with love, as it is the foundation of God's Word, for we are only accountable to God alone--"So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God" (Rm.14:12).
@cqqrzgth Brother, why do I have to cough something up of the Word of God? Also, why do you accuse me of using logic to say that those are your interpretations. "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand", the Apostle Paul is clear about passing opinions on something that doesn't concern you...are you a member at Mars Hill congregation? Why do you feel justified to call them & Rob Bell false?
@cqqrzgth As for the Galatians, the Apostle Paul is well know for articulating that we are free from laws of Torah, because of the finished work that Yeshua accomplished when He was hung on a tree, whereby having faith in Him alone means that we are justified (Ga 3). How then do you call what I am saying to you as "piss poor logic"---it isn't about heaven or hell, but the grace, through faith in our Lord Yeshua--that is the Good News. Is believing in Gehenna/hell a requirement to be saved???
@cqqrzgth You are not wrong to believe that your Biblical interpretations are correct--those are your convictions! Neither is Rob Bell wrong to believe God will have mercy on people (even in Gehenna/Hell) because He is an eternally loving God; "And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--[not even] the powers of [hell] can separate us from God's love" (Rm3:8)
@bocajjp1 Basically what you've done is chopped off the ledge you're standing on because now you have no basis to correct me on anything and your use of John 8? Well, that's just your understanding and interpretation.
@bocajjp1 See, it's not just about what Bell DOES teach that makes him false but it's also what he DOESN'T teach that makes him false. Anyone can call their god "jesus" but it's the details that let us know which one they mean.
@cqqrzgth Where did I say we are to only be nice brother? We are NOT to be merely nice, God whats us to exceed being nice & practice love, because that is His commandment (Jn.13:34). As for 'my' poor use of scripture, I know Gamaliel was not a believer--but he didn't write Acts, the evangelist Luke did. I also quoted the Lord for support. the Lord's flock at Mars Hill, why are you persisting to judge them, when the Lord commands that we cease to do that??? Pray for Mars Hill, Not persecute them!
@cqqrzgth Actually, Gamaliel said what he said in the Book of Acts, the fact that its in Acts, means that its scripture, therefore; " All [keyword] Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (Tm.3:16). You ask which Jesus/Yeshua? Listen, all of the religions you mentioned; Islam, LDS, JW's, all believe (j)esus is created (Not Creator)--that is not Lord Jesus/Yeshua, they believe in a created thing (idol), not Immanuel, God with us!
In fact, even a Pharisee, probably one of the greatest of all-time, Gamaliel (the Apostel Paul's Torah teacher) cautioned the Pharisees from persecuting Christians in the Book of Acts. "I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God" (Acts.5:38-9).
Make no mistake about it, HELL IS REAL!!! If you are not born again as mentioned in the Bible, see my video titled “Warning: Four Types of People that are Hellbound”. It's a message I preached on the streets of Long Beach CA.
One of the things that I have noticed about Rob in many interviews that I've seen on You Tube is that he has a very hard time answering a direct question. He was asked if he believe that hell is forever? He talked and talked but never came close to answering the question. He makes the statement in the above video "The bride of Christ is a mysterious thing don't mess with it". He makes statements like this in order to say, leave me and my wierd theology alone or God may judge you.
God's love & mercy endures forever. If He sentenced people to an eternity in Hell, how could His love & mercy endure forever? The Scriptures do not teach eternal punishment. God will judge fairly, as He sees fit.
Given time more people will discover that many of our medieval interpretations didn't reflect what the original biblical text meant. Rob just found that earlier and remains courageous. And not alone.
Rob Bell: "I tell people to trust their lives to Jesus".
Re: That's not the point, Mr. Bell! One can have the best-tasting, tropical punch; but if you take a poop in the punch-bowl, the entire beverage becomes BAD!
The church is told to steer clear from false teachers! Christians should heed that imperative!
@shneider177 Yes but if you actually listen to Rob Bell he backs up everything he said with scripture. Nothing he teaches is outside of the Bible. However the Bible isn't written in black and white as some would like to believe. It was originally written it culture very different from ours and in a different language than ours so it is our job to interoperate the Bible into our lives. Obviously one persons interoperation is going to be differant than some others.
These types of "gospels" are very tasty to those who do not see that "dying to themselves" to be "buried with Him into His death, raised to walk in newness of life"
Go right ahead. "Many shall say unto Me ,Lord Lord...........and I will say unto them.....DEPART FROM ME YOU LAWLESS."
@s25598 Really. Show me proof of a place called "hell" where a soul will be tormented and tortured forever and ever. Do you know "hell" is the translated word for the greek word Gehenna, which was a dump for burning dead bodies south of Jerusalem. Jesus never mentioned once of a torture chamber under the earth where the devil sticks you with a fork. It was made up by the Roman Catholic Church and passed on down the line. Jesus didn't come to condemn the world but to save it!
@s25598 That's your proof of a place called hell where people will be forever burned alive?? Remember, God is a consuming fire. Fire in Revelation is imagery, not literal fire from a fireplace. Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire, meaning no more death no more Hades. The ones that were disobedient from Adam to Christ were preached to in the grave (1 Pet 3) then judged at Christ second coming in 70ad, only to be refined and made new. Read Jer 9:7, Zech 13:9, and Mal 3:3. God saves!
@oldno74 Jesus's second coming didn't happen 70a.d the destruction of the temple happen that Jesus said would happen. Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Also Rev. 20:10 proves that there is a place of torment for ever and ever.
@s25598 Try again. Matthew 24 is very clear that the disciple generation would be the one to see all those things happen-tribulation, persecution, the Heavens being shaken, the sun being darkened, stars falling, the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS. All is imagery for God's judgment against the apostate Jews religion. Read in the context of Scripture, not as a 21st century man. Let Scripture interpret Scripture. Read Isa 19 for similar language and it will help. Fire is a good thing, it refines.
@oldno74 First of all if Jesus Christ second coming has already came why is the devil still doing his' evil in the world , because Jesus will destroy the beast and false prophet and bind satan for 1,000 years and also where is new Jerusalem at because it has not happen yet because it will come down from heaven and set were eden was and the Jewish and Gentile Christians will rule with Lord Jesus Christ.
@s25598 Problem number one with your statement. The evil that you see in this world is not from Satan but from man-"and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith." 2Thess3:2. Secondly you're looking for a physical Kingdom just like the Jews were doing when Jesus came. Jesus told them that “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, [21] nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”
@oldno74 are you a Jehovah Witness? Do you believe Lord Jesus Christ is God in the flesh? Because I believe Jesus is God in the flesh and secondly not all the prophesy in the Old Testement has not been fulfilled yet because Damascus has not yet been destroyed and other have not been done yet. And God's word must be fulfilled!
@s25598 No I'm not a JW. I am a person who believes in God the Father, and I believe that Jesus Christ is His Son. Do I without a doubt know that Jesus is God in the Flesh, no. Jesus never claimed to be God, only that the Father was in him. Jesus was a man. He learned as a child, he was tempted, he prayed to God, he wept, he did everything that a human being does. I can't say He is God in the flesh for certain, but he was the first born of the Kingdom and the cornerstone for the church.
@oldno74 Jesus did claim to be God in the flesh, He said many time I am that he was God , Moses ask him who should i tell them you are and God said I am that I am and if you cant say that Jesus(God) came in the flesh you are not saved look at 1 John chapter 4 it will tell you everything !
@s25598 You follow man's traditions. If you are born of God then you also are a god and a son of God. Listen to Christ. "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? [35] If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—[36] do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?(John 10:34)
"nevertheless, like men you shall die"(Psalm 82:7)
@oldno74John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(Jesus) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him(Jesus); and without him was not any thing made.4 In him(Jesus) was life; and the life was the light of men.5 And the darkness comprehended it not.So you see you cant comprehended the truth because you are not saved , because you must believe that Lord Jesus came in the flesh and he is Yahweh in the flesh. That is the Truth
@s25598 I know, I used to use the same verses when I tried to prove Jesus was God. But, read it again. Where does it say the Word is Jesus the man? The Word is from God, not Jesus. Jesus was the man chosen by God from the foundations of the world, to bring the Word (God's Spirit and light) to mankind. "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind." Num 23
God worked through His Son, Jesus. Everything runs through Jesus, but comes from the Father.
@oldno74 The Godhead is God the Father, God the Son , God the Holy Spirit, three person but One God, In Gen. it says Let us make man in our image, because God is three in one, just like man is body, soul, spirit. Jesus was born with out human father so He wouldn't have original sin, God is the only one with out sin so he had to be born by a virgin he was 100% man and 100% God. with out sin! and God is the only one who can for give sins.
@s25598 Where does the text say without a doubt that God is 3 in 1?? What about the 7 spirits of God in Revelation??? You are inserting man's doctrine into the text and have to twist it around to make the trinity work. God is not born He's eternal. Jesus was born because he was a man, but God was in Jesus. The Word was in Jesus. Jesus even said He can do nothing without the Father and the Father tells him what to do. How can God tell God what to do!?
@oldno74 Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given : and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. theres your proof!!
@s25598 To say I'm not saved is funny. Where is salvation merited on whether I believe Jesus is God? Please show me. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged." Be careful trying to play God. You have no right whatsoever to say who is saved and who isn't. You might want to repent from that statement.
@oldno74 our you a muslim, because if you are you are not a Christian, because 1 John chapter 4 states if you can not cofesss that Jesus Christ came in the flesh you are not of God but of the anti-christ . So i'm a questioning whether you are saved or not!
@s25598 Really? Then why do you deny that Jesus Christ comes in the flesh? Read John 6, especially John 6:66. Christ truly does come again in the flesh, every day of the week in the most holy Eucharist in Catholic churches all over the world. Why do you deny this? Jesus was known to them in the breaking of the bread and then he vanished from their sight.......
@snooop1e first of all i was tell this person if you can not confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This person is not a true believer that is what it says in 1 John chapter 4. Catholic are not of God either because the communion is in remberence of Jesus death, they prade it around like it is accually Jesus that is sacrilege!
@s25598 Scripture is very clear that Jesus was coming soon, and that was in the first century. Put yourselves in the shoes of a new convert back then listening to a letter from Paul, James, or John being read to you. You were being told that the Lord's return is at the door, that it's the end of the age, we are in the last days, time is short, and so on. What a cruel trick if they didn't mean what they said. You might as well ignore the writings of Scripture then because they loose credibility.
Rob Bell is an EXCELLENT Teacher and a TRUE Annointed man of God1 people keep confusing Him With The REAL Heretic Mark Driscoll, because their Churches WHICH ARE NOT AFFILIATED, BOTH have the same names! mars hill
Rob Bell is refreshing but in many ways challenges the traditonal teaching of the church built up over centuries. We may not like what he has said but there are many home truths about the 'church'. He does not ask to to accept what he says, but we should be open - there is a lot to learn. Jesus challenged the religious leaders of the day - they killed him. Rob Bell is feeling the heat so I say hang in there and keep on preaching the Good News.
2 Therefore if someone is being heavily criticized by religous leaders, they are following in Christ's footsteps.
It's a non-sequitar. The judaizers were heavily criticized by Paul in Galatians. The gnostics were heavily criticized by John in 1 John. And rightly so in both cases. BTW, I've never once heard RB preach the Good News - not if by 'Good News' you mean the Gospel as given in the Bible.
What happens when you die? Have you told lies, stolen, used God's name in vain(10 Commandments)? If yes, then you're a liar, thief, and a blasphemer in the sight of God. When you die & be judged by God, you'll be guilty of sin, & go to Hell! But God sent His Son Jesus to shed His blood & die on a cross for your sins, He was buried & rose again from the dead on the third day. If you'll believe the Gospel(Jesus died for your sins,was buried & resurrected)you'll not perish & have eternal life
The problem with Bell is not just the conclusions he's eluding to BUT it's how he gets there. There are a lot of similarities between Rob Bell and the serpent in Genesis chapter 3. This review helps bring light to what Rob Bell is doing and teaching. HELLS BELL DOT NET
Notice in this video he says "You can take any line, isolate it from it's context, and make a person say anything they want". That is exactly what Rob Bell does in Love Win's when he tries to quote scripture from the bible. He takes a scripture out of context and then makes it say anything he wants. What a Hypocrite.
PLEASE be more considerate of what you say online. You are spewing such hate on a man I can presume you have never even met. Your comments are filled with such hate, it's too difficult to just sit back and watch. & that goes for everyone. DO EVERY ACT OUT OF LOVE. God is so good.
Rob Bell is not a Believer, he is a mystic pagen, it shows so clearly. He hardly knows how to even pretend to be a christian. He is a very bad example of a infiltrating Jesuit monk sent in to undermine the early protestant church by the vatican. He should be sacked, as its an epic fail onhis part. it is blatently obvious that he is not nor ever has been a christian.
I've learned in this life,when dealing with people that there are 3 times in life when people will throw things:
when i get married they will throw rice-when i die they will throw dirt-and when i'm wrong they will throw rocks.
As soon as someone preaches or says something that we deem wrong we go to the parking lot to find stones.did not peter often say things wrong,that was contrary to what christ said?did he go to hell?no.how do u know?bcuz we no the rest of his story..whats the rest of robs
@aikidocrazy : Couldn't agree more...me me me...that's all I heard. What about God? His plans for us and how they are laid out in the bible? The same bible he seems to dimisses so easily as a golden idol! Wow, calling Gods word a golden idol! That's rich. How about ONE scripture just one...even Osteen uses one.
It kinda reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the he thinks that he is right and everyone else that disagrees is wrong, and apostate, a nay sayer and should be walked away from. Notice he never used ONE scripture, not one in his defence. If he truly is a bible teaching pastor then his personal thoughts and beliefs should be secondary. I don't trust him one iota...It's all about him and defending HIS take on the bible, NOT the bible, which is Gods word about Jesus our Savior.
@ironpocket17 There's few problems here...first of all, you assume that because people object to his false teachings that it means that they "hate" him. WRONG! If that were true then we must assume that Paul "hated" the false teachers that he objected to. Second, you asume that he is "one of our own". Jesus said to beware those who come in His name and those who wear the garments of the shepherd but are really false.
@ironpocket17 : Don't hate him, just think he is a very well intended, misguided, pastor who is misleading thousands down the wrong path. I wish he would use more scriptures...he may gain some credebility if he did.
The reason why he's talking about himself is that he is defending himself and his church against the world n this is a talk to his church thanking them for their support in their time of hardship.
If you want to see a set of videos done by him which is talking about God look up everything spiritual on YouTube :)
@ComoEstas15 Relying on the knowledge of a medical doctor doesnt prove that you studied the "original manuscripts". So, no you dont have the foggiest notion because you keep on relying on others' works. Sorry man, but i think my friend is right. Go to Bible College, and see what we have been trying to tell you! :)
@jrcook80 He doesn't even know which ancient manuscripts he's referring to. You'd think with all of the 10's of thousands of copies from the various times and places he'd be able to tell us. That right there is proof.
@cqqrzgth yeah exactly! The manuscripts were in Hebrew and Greek. I doubt mister ever even studied Greek and Hebrew like he claims he did! By the way, what Seminary did you go to? I noticed that is on your profile. I went to Heritage College and Seminary where William Webb was the prof. Did you know that Rob Bell follows William Webb's last book?
@jrcook80 I only studied a little bit. I'd like to go to Southern or Master's but it's just a pipe dream for now. I took a hermeneutics course (distance) thru Jacksonville Seminary (non accredited) several years ago. I'll probably have to settle for some online classes at Liberty U. Not my first choice but beggars can't be choosers. I'm more of a reformed guy so a reformed education would be ideal.
Now who is this William Webb dude? I've never heard of him?
@ComoEstas15 One more thing, you just want the Bible to say what you want it to say! Afterall, you do think the Bible is full of errors, and thats where you get your pitiful little ideas. Read the Bible word for word, and stop adding and subtracting words from the Bible that was translated into English from the Greek and Hebrew tongue! Its called the Dead Sea Scrolls! You only rely on others who want to tear the Bible apart, and care nothing for Christianity! Medical doctors do it all the time!
@ComoEstas15 Now, you say my ideas are corrupt? Okay so now I believe David and Jonathan weren't gay? So, I guess that means I am corrupt, and illusioned? Where does that say that in history? Do you really know anything about history? By the way, I studied the History of Western Civilization in Bible College. I am glad you think you think I am corrupt, but you have 3 fingers pointing back at you. Sorry buddy. :D Harry Potter is witchcraft, and now I understand what you really believe! :)
@ComoEstas15 You see, people that DO have the foggiest ideas, can demonstrate that. All you can dom is run off at the mouth. You commit the fallacy of "Phantom Evidence".
@ComoEstas15 I've also looked into the history of the church and you know what? Again you are dead wrong. Right now you have a batting average of .000
@cqqrzgth He can't make contact with ball because he is wearing his Harry Potter glasses, or shall I say his rose colored glasses? Pretty sad if you ask me! He knows nothing of the history of churches. He has never studied them.
@ComoEstas15 I've looked into the history of the bible and you know what? YOU are dead wrong. You haven't got the foggiest idea what you're talking about. You are illinformed, ignorant, mislead, deceived and uneducated. All you have to offer is fragments of willfully wrong information that you have chosen to believe. Your god is the people that lead you around by the nose.
@ComoEstas15 Did you know that the Roman Catholic Church has its own Bible? Thought you didnt know that! :) Witches don't exist as you claim they do. :) Watching Harry Potter and Twlight is man made and full of errors! Now I know why your thinking is so screwed up! Poor 19 year old kid you are! :D God Bless you are! :D
@ComoEstas15 I thought you said everyone is going to Heaven? You said the thought of cqqrzgth being in heaven is enough to put people off for good? How does that make sense? Sin can't go into Heaven because God is Holy and Just! No sin is allowed! By the way, there was a big split between the RC church and those of the Protestants as we know today. I sure hope you know the difference! I am not Catholic, I am a born again Christian. Learn the difference for once! :)
@ComoEstas15 he can't, he has never gone to Bible College or Seminary like you or ever have. Instead he relies on other's works from a secular environment. Lorraine Day has studied the Bible in a secular university, and he only concern is to rip the Bible apart, and make it look like it is full of errors. Thats all she knows how to do, or how anyone from those universities are wanting to do. I have run across some of those kind of people.
@ComoEstas15 Revelations 21 is just a book of symbols, so there is no Heaven. We are not going anywhere. Heaven does not exist. See how that works? You just contradicted yourself. You claim we have never studied the exerogsis of the original manuscripts? You must be pretty be darn smart. You say you are 19, and you got saved in October 2007? What did you do? Jump high school into Bible College. You rely on other people's sources instead of studying the background of the books. You have no proof!
@ComoEstas15 If you look in look in Revelations 2-3, Jesus is talking about the 7 churches of Asia. If they were crealy symbolss, the rest of the New Tetsament would have never talked about those churches. If the book of Revelations was a a book of symbols, Jesus would not exist. He did not die on the cross as you claim He did. heaven also would not exist because it is just a symbol. Symbols don't reveal the Son of God being glorified in Heaven. We also can't go to Heaven if it is just a symbol.
@ComoEstas15 Oh you can't answer my question about the scripture. Sorry, I guess you misplaced your "exegesis"? Ha ha LOL ha ha You lose. Looky looky, I got hooky!
@ComoEstas15 Well "LOL" since you haven't I guess I'll assume that you think you have "ha ha" I have yet to see you do this "ha ha" I have exegesis and you don't" You lose "ha ha", I win "LOL".
@cqqrzgth Why don't you put your $ where your mouth is and use that "exegesis and original language" and show me what Jesus meant about the unpardonable sin?
@ComoEstas15 I know what you believe it's just that you have no biblical evidence to support it. You can rattle off all day about what you think but in the end, God's word will decide what is true. In order for people to be saved, their sins must be forgiven but Jesus clearly said that the blasphemy of the holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this life or the one to come. Oops.
@cqqrzgth He is blind....Satan is blinding him. He can't see how blind he is. He believes in that all will get to Heaven, and all of Revelation is a book of symbols.
@ComoEstas15 Wait, I don't think you like going to the scriptures do you? They seem to prove you wrong as well. How about history? No? Yea that one defeats you too. I guees you have no options but conjecture on your side huh?
@ComoEstas15 Really? I thought you said that you were "searching"? Well guess what? I've prayed too and I've met God. What makes your prayers and your encounter more valid than others?
@ComoEstas15 You have an uncanny ability to look right past a difficult question and carry on as though it were never even asked. You are not informed nor are you educated in any biblical studies. You simply regurgitate the unfounded words of others.
@ComoEstas15 Your previous references were. Your understanding of Chronology is below that of a retard. Your accusation about Hell and Dante makes as much sense as saying that vampires weren't thought up until the Twilight movies.
@ComoEstas15 Your comments are the epitome of ignorant because they are not supported by any FACTS rather they are just things that you have read from nonreputable sources (blogs, websites) but not any actual hitorical documents.
@ComoEstas15 My comments are right on track and my questions that you refuse to answer are even more so. Your accusation that Hell came from the writings of Jerome or Dante is historically wrong and inaccurate.
@ComoEstas15 So when the bookm of revelation mention Jesus Christ, it's not really Him, it's just a "symbol"? When it mention believers it's not really people, it's just symbols?
@ComoEstas15 Revelations 20:11-15: (Rev 20:13-15) 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. - This is all in God's Word. Saying that there are errors won't prove your point. :) Praying for a revlation for you! :D
@ComoEstas15 Here is a fact for you: Revelations 20:11-15: (Rev 20:11-12) 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
@ComoEstas15 Universal reconcialtion is taught against Revelations 20:11-15. Sorry again, but I just looked at your profile, and now I see why you are pretty messed up. The groups you listen to dont even match up with Christian music. I also noticed you watch Harry Potter. Sorry buddy, you can't fool me. Thats witchcraft! We are to get rid of all evil. How do I know this? I have a 15 year old sister who watched all kinds of witchcraft, and she has lied and killed my mother. I wonder why? Satan?
@cqqrzgth What? Not until the 4th century? Hmmm then what do we do with the writings of Clement and Ignatius? Both of them were BEFORE Dante and Jerome and they wrote about Hell. Can you explain them?
@ComoEstas15 Did you know that there are people who say that NASA never landed on the moon in the 60's? Yep. They say it was all faked. So I guess that because they "said so" that means that it's true (acording to your logic)? You see, appealing to people who were in error in history doesn't prove your point either. Yes there were heretical people in history who taught the heresy of universalism but they were declared heretics just like today.
@cqqrzgth Yes, he would always tell you that. I like how he calls us pharisees. Even the pharisees misled many people, and Jesus called them a broad of vipers. I pointed him to Revalations 20:11-15 because it does clearly talks about the Lamb's book of Life. Those who were not found in the Lamb's Book of life, they were cast into Hades. I think it is rather stupid that he would argue with us saying that hell does not exist when really hades is only another term for hell. Keep the faith brother!
@cqqrzgth Your welcome brother! May the Lord bless you! Keep the faith! Thanks for standing with me in the fight for the absolute TRUTH written in the WORD Of God! :D
@ComoEstas15 Since you've declared these "facts" as being facts then certainly you've done the deep research to demonstrate that they are indeed "facts" right? What elements of these "facts" prove so?
@ComoEstas15 Well if you haven't found the truth yet then you need to stop running at the mouth about your so called "facts". Also I called you an "expert" sarcastically. Obviously you are eons from being an expert.
@ComoEstas15 haha! You are lying through your teeth! When you give us false teaching, you are also known for lying. It is very easy to mark someone's comment as spam. If you don't know how to do it, you are pretty good at covering it up. If you know how to research on your computer, you know how to mark someone's as spam. Besides, Youtube hasn't changed in months. Nice try. :) Oh by the way, you still havent answered any of my questions. You are pretty good at avoiding the questions! :D
@ComoEstas15 Bringing up the pharisees is completely irrelevant to this discussion. The pharisses were a works righteous group of people that thought that they were pleasing God by their works. Since I don't advocate works righteousness then your mention of them is irrelevant.
The Latin Vulgate, as translated by Jerome circa 400 A.D., had such an overpowering dominance for over a thousand years that many subsequent versions of the Bible, especially the King James Version (KJV), simply carried forward the translation and interpretation errors to varying degrees in support of the doctrine of hell.
pUnKrOcKnINjAgAmEr 8 hours ago
It was Jerome who mistranslated and misinterpreted important age-related Hebrew and Greek words when translating them from original Manuscripts into the Latin Vulgate. He did this to support the doctrine of hell, which was a pagan belief that had already been embraced and established in the Roman Catholic Church by the time Jerome came to write the Latin Vulgate.
pUnKrOcKnINjAgAmEr 8 hours ago
Hm...the Old Testament prophets were heretics. Jesus himself was a heretic. John Wycliffe and Martin Luther were heretics. Now Rob Bell is a heretic, hm? It's funny how pretty much every reformer EVER was labeled a heretic by whatever religious people were in charge at the time. The cycle never really ends, does it? xD
Good for you, Rob, sticking up for your church! I'm glad he's not letting the haters tear him down :)
GoddessOfTheAir 1 week ago
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AMEN!!!
her-e-tic
n.
A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly
dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic
Church.
pUnKrOcKnINjAgAmEr 9 hours ago
Have never read his book, but I would say this. If it is not in agreement with the Bible - RUN! Lots of doctrines being taught from the Bible. In fact, the Bible says that doctrines of demons would be taught in in the last days. Not saying this man is doing that because I have never read his book or attended his church. However, seems to be lots of follks saying that he is teaching heresies. I would just encourage people to be careful about following any man.
edadan2009 1 week ago
Blasphemy is the working against the spirit of God? that doesn't sound like a correct statement? I can see why people follow Rob, especially when he appeals to them being victimised for being followers of his Mars Hill. A warning though, this is a similar arguement to that which Hitler made to the German people regarding the Jews.
NZdorking 2 weeks ago
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I am thankful for Mars Hill and Rob Bell. Whether you agree with him or not, he has caused the world to start talking about Christ. It's as Paul said,
Philippians 1:18
"But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice. Yes, and I will continue to rejoice," (NIV)
I only pray that my video... book... life... will cause even the tiniest amount of discussion about the things that matter most.
FixMeLoveThem 1 month ago
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Johny5ol 1 month ago
One word. HERETIC!!!
gtxss 1 month ago
@bocajjp1 well in the gospels when they mention the man the rich man that dies and goes to hell he said he saw Abraham and God but there was an eternal void he asked for help but it was not given why because hell is eternal seperation from God
op6141 1 month ago
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2 Thessaloinains2:11
11And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness
Beware of the wolf in Shepard's Clothing not the sheep. If you are at Mars Hill I pray you come to the truth of the gospel and find church that preaches the true gospel.
godserv2011 3 months ago
I have sought the Lord out ever since I was a young boy. Never-ever, do I judge those who call upon Jesus, because I know that God will reveal those who are His by their fruits--remember, by their fruits they will know that they are His. Who am I to accuse any believer? Nobody does right nobody, not me Jonathan Cohen, not Mark Driscoll, John Piper, John Hagee, Billy Graham, or Rob Bell; we are all under God's grace. The Lord commanded us to love one another, love must be written on your heart!
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 Those who call upon which Jesus, the mormon jesus? The jesus of Islam? The jesus of the watchtower society? What do you mean by "fruit"? Is "fruit" people that are nice, that have a nice smile or do nice things?
BTW, Gamaliel's quote came from Gamaliel, not from God.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
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bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 Actually your conclusion is incorrect because if that were true then the Mormon church is "of God" as well as the Chruch of Scientology and the Jehovah's witnesses and every Islamic temple because they're all successful with millions of followers.
See, Gamaliel's "principle" is not a God principle.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth Brother, its ok that you have questions (discourse) about the authority (validity of use) of ALL scripture as it is written (so also do people at Mars Hill have questions---its okay, it refines your faith in Him when look to ALL the scriptures & find God's truth, not man's interpretation). But, keep in mind that restraint from being judgemental is at the heart of bearing fruit & IS God's principle, ""Do not stop him", Jesus said, "for whowever is not against us is for us""(Lk.5:50).
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 I don't have an issue with scripture, it is the word of God. What I do have issue is with your poor use of it. The reason I mentioned those other religions is because they all have a "jesus" of their own invention just as Rob Bell has a "jesus" of his own invention so just because a church is big or prosperous and has lot's of people in it doesn't mean that that church is "of God". Also, Gamaliel was NOT a believer and was not speaking on behalf of God or prophesying. Use your head!
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth Just because people go to a bible believing church also doesn't mean their of God either, nor does it mean people who are in an emerging church are not saved--the bible is clear that belief and confession of Yeshua (the Creator of the universe) allows to partake in His salvation through grace. If you judge, Rob Bell, then that measurement needs to be used on you...Ask the Lord for a loving heart, one that demonstrates God's unconditional love, God is His Word/Logos, He alone can judge!
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 Actually I can judge what people teach based on the word of God and again I have found Rob Bell to be a false teacher who preaches a false gospel. I don't need to ask God for a loving heart because that has nothing to do with Bell's false teaching. It's not UNloving to say that something is false.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
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bocajjp1 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth Who are you to judge the heart of man, only Messiah has authority to do that-you might be an Evangelical---thats great that you're a brother, but your not Ha Elyon/The Most High. You pass judgement on a brother based on your own Calvanist Reformed doctrine; you don't know if Rob Bell knows the Messiah, or that he is on his way to hell.-In fact, thats why Rob Bell wrote his book in the first place, because too many Christians are passing judgement on the full body of believers.
bocajjp1 3 months ago
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@bocajjp1 I don't recall where I judged Bell's heart, I judged his doctrine and found it to be erroneous. Your mentioning of reformed doctrine is irrelevant, presumptuous and also has no bearing to the discussion. That's a red herring.am I to judge? Well Jesus said to beware of false teachers so how can I "beware" if I don't exercise biblical judgement?
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth You call Rob a false teacher, yet, he meets the fundamental requirements for him to be saved; furthermore, all the believers at Mars Hill that accept Yeshua into their heart as their Messiah--they cannot do that without the work of the Ruah HaKodesh/Holy Spirit (Rm.14:17,1Cr.12:7,1Pe.4:10); you have no authority under the grace of Yeshua to be an accuser of the Brethern. Rob Bell doesn't need your support, or any other person to use the Name of Yeshua Ha Moshiah (Acts.19:13).
bocajjp1 3 months ago
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bocajjp1 3 months ago
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bocajjp1 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth You mention other religions so much; but, they are one in the same (idolaters)they worship created things (idols), not the Creator). The Lord says you recognize those who truly belong to God by their fruits (Jn.15). In Gal.5, Cr.13, & in the Gospels we understand that love is the greatest commandment, first to God, then to others. Look at the fruit of Islam & the distress it causes, Mormons-ask a Black man about their racist theology, their seeds bear bad fruit, because they love not
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 Fruit as it's taught in scripture is not merely "being nice" so just because someone smiles and helps people out or does "good deeds", does not automatically equal good fruit. The Mormons do more "good deeds" than most christian but the fact remains that they preach a false gospel and proclaim a false christ. Rob Bell also preaches a false gospel and a false christ.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
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bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 Why do I judge them? Because as a believer it is my responsability to judge what others teach. I have judged what they teach there as compared to the word of God and found them to be false. On the authority of scripture I have the right to tell others of this as well because that's what believers who love thei fellow brethren do. (Romans 16:17)
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth Yes, you quoted from Romans, good, but diid you not read also; "You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things" (Rm.2:1). Are you saying that Rob Bell isn't saved by the blood Yeshua, eventhough he confesses with his mouth, and states that he believes in his heart that Yeshua is Lord, and that no one can come to the Father, except by Yeshua?
bocajjp1 3 months ago
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@bocajjp1 Yea, Paul is addressing those who are guilty of doing the same things that they accuse others of so since I'm not out preaching false doctrines,, false gospels, etc then this verse really has no bearing here. Rob Bell preaches a false gospel and according to Galatians 1, he is accursed by doing so. Not my words, the Holy Spirit's.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
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cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@bocajjp1
Jesus said: "Do not judge according to appearance but judge with righteous judgment." ~ John 7:24
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 Can you please point me to where I judged Bell's heart? As I recall, it was his doctrine that I judged and I have the right according to scripture to do that.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth Brother, may the Lord Yeshua bless you continually as we all seek His presence in our lives....You have the right to call out anybody--yes, scripture provides preprove by seeing if it lines up with truth of the Word. However, you cannot 'assume' Robs' belief in Yeshua/Jesus is false (his assumptions about hell may dangerous ideas of God's grace, but that doesn't mean Rob doesn't put his trust in Jesus). Niether does it mean that Mars Hill congregants aren't truly saved by Jesus.
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth By placing Rob Bell in with groups who deny Jesus, such as Muslims & JW's, or the Mormons & thier critical departure from the Bible (Word of God) by way of the book of Mormon; presents certain issues that arise because he doesn't deny Jesus. He states, as well as Mars Hill's website that they uphold Jesus as the only way to salvation; it is by their belief in the 'mystery' of salvation that they diverge, not their faith & salvation in Yeshua/Jesus, but their differeing view of details
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 Well, anyone can have a statement of what they "believe" but unfortunately the one at his church is vague at best. The bottom line is that Rob Bell is a false teacher who preaches a false gospel with a false jesus. Sorry but we have a very thick bible for a reason...it makes sure to cover the "details" of which Bell subtly departs so yes, he fits right in with the Mormons and the JW's and anyone else who brings another jesus.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth Yes, but it is also writtten in John; "You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one" (Jn.8:25). Therefore, whatever your are judging is not soley based on the Word of God, but based on your understanding, interpretation, and canonical importance that you weigh certain scriptures over. As far as 'the details', yes the Bible has many details; but also many interpretations to go along with that--thats why there are over 50,000 movements & streams within the Christian Family.
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 OK then, so basically the bible is a bog free for all and anyone can say whatever they want and it's all ok? Cool, well I think that Jesus is really Oprah Winfrey reincarnated and that when people die they all go to Denny's and eat grand slam breakfasts for all of eternity. Am I wrong?
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth Any major theologian will tell you that Christianity isn't a unified religion, its a relationship with Yeshua. Really, the only major theme that is recognized by the majority of Christians is the Nicene Creed (325 AD). Other than that, there is no real consensus agreement within Christianity other than monotheism & the diety of Jesus as God-thats it. Various view points start to arise the more 'details' start to enter. Only the Lord can separate the wheat from the tares (Mt.13:36-43)
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 See, Mt.13 is just your interpretation and understanding. I think what Jesus meant in Mt.13 is that there's good Karma and bad Karma and that we need to burn incense and breath in good feelings and exhale bad ones. That's my understanding...am I wrong?
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth Actually, the reason why I 'disarmed myself of understanding' is to show you that anyone that is judging an interpretation of the Bible, is ONLY based on what THEY understand the Bible to be. I am lawyer by profession, schooled in advanced theology & law from Standford, YET--I lean not on my own understanding because all I boast about is Adonai, & what my Lord did when He bore the cup of ALL sins while being hung on a tree.
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 The reason you disarmed yourself is because you have the typical post modern mindset when it comes to what God's word says and means. You see because of what you've done I can counter with your own piss poor logic and simply say that's just your interpretation. However if I were to probe things more specifically I would find out how and why your interpretations were either right or wrong. Please spare me your accolaids because they don't impress. Finney was a lawyer AND a heretic!
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth So then how do we know that we're not following man through interpretation of the Bible, instead of God's Living Word? It is written in the scriptures that every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three wintesses, because one witness is not enough to convict someone of an offense (2 Cr 13.1, Dt 19:15, Mt 18:16). We not only have the Word of God, but we have His promise of another witness of His truth, the Holy Spirit, who teaches us (Jn.14:26, 16:13, 1 Cr 2:10).
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth We also have a third witness, that also testifies to God's truth, we have the work of faith that is witnessed & can be seen in the fruit that one bears, as it is written, "No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit" (Lk 6:43, Mt 7:17,12:33). These three witnesses reveal who serve God & who serve themselves. So until Mars Hill Church distances themselves from the Spirit, Word, or faith with works, how can you otherwise prove they are heritics without judging?
bocajjp1 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 Funny though that when the Galatians embraced the false gospel of the Judaizers, Paul never once appealed to your "logic". So with that, I would like to know where the bible teaches that after people die that they will get another opportunity to give poor old Jesus a chance to be the Lord of their lives? See, that's part of Marshill's "gospel" and I have yet to see a verse that supports it so you just cough it up and we'll call it a day.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@cqqrzgth First, love the Lord you God by keeping His Name holy--never refer to the Lord as poor old Jesus (even attempting to make a statement--it shows spiritual immaturity brother to desecrate His Name--kept Holy is His Name (Lv 22:32)..Don't go the way of the judgemental Pharisees, instead, be filled with love, as it is the foundation of God's Word, for we are only accountable to God alone--"So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God" (Rm.14:12).
bocajjp1 2 months ago
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@cqqrzgth Brother, why do I have to cough something up of the Word of God? Also, why do you accuse me of using logic to say that those are your interpretations. "Who are you to judge the servant of another? To his own master he stands or falls; and he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand", the Apostle Paul is clear about passing opinions on something that doesn't concern you...are you a member at Mars Hill congregation? Why do you feel justified to call them & Rob Bell false?
bocajjp1 2 months ago
@cqqrzgth As for the Galatians, the Apostle Paul is well know for articulating that we are free from laws of Torah, because of the finished work that Yeshua accomplished when He was hung on a tree, whereby having faith in Him alone means that we are justified (Ga 3). How then do you call what I am saying to you as "piss poor logic"---it isn't about heaven or hell, but the grace, through faith in our Lord Yeshua--that is the Good News. Is believing in Gehenna/hell a requirement to be saved???
bocajjp1 2 months ago
@cqqrzgth You are not wrong to believe that your Biblical interpretations are correct--those are your convictions! Neither is Rob Bell wrong to believe God will have mercy on people (even in Gehenna/Hell) because He is an eternally loving God; "And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God's love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow--[not even] the powers of [hell] can separate us from God's love" (Rm3:8)
bocajjp1 2 months ago
@bocajjp1 Basically what you've done is chopped off the ledge you're standing on because now you have no basis to correct me on anything and your use of John 8? Well, that's just your understanding and interpretation.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
@bocajjp1 See, it's not just about what Bell DOES teach that makes him false but it's also what he DOESN'T teach that makes him false. Anyone can call their god "jesus" but it's the details that let us know which one they mean.
cqqrzgth 3 months ago
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@cqqrzgth Where did I say we are to only be nice brother? We are NOT to be merely nice, God whats us to exceed being nice & practice love, because that is His commandment (Jn.13:34). As for 'my' poor use of scripture, I know Gamaliel was not a believer--but he didn't write Acts, the evangelist Luke did. I also quoted the Lord for support. the Lord's flock at Mars Hill, why are you persisting to judge them, when the Lord commands that we cease to do that??? Pray for Mars Hill, Not persecute them!
bocajjp1 3 months ago
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@cqqrzgth Actually, Gamaliel said what he said in the Book of Acts, the fact that its in Acts, means that its scripture, therefore; " All [keyword] Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness" (Tm.3:16). You ask which Jesus/Yeshua? Listen, all of the religions you mentioned; Islam, LDS, JW's, all believe (j)esus is created (Not Creator)--that is not Lord Jesus/Yeshua, they believe in a created thing (idol), not Immanuel, God with us!
bocajjp1 3 months ago
In fact, even a Pharisee, probably one of the greatest of all-time, Gamaliel (the Apostel Paul's Torah teacher) cautioned the Pharisees from persecuting Christians in the Book of Acts. "I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God" (Acts.5:38-9).
bocajjp1 3 months ago
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bocajjp1 3 months ago
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Make no mistake about it, HELL IS REAL!!! If you are not born again as mentioned in the Bible, see my video titled “Warning: Four Types of People that are Hellbound”. It's a message I preached on the streets of Long Beach CA.
EvangelizeYourWorld 4 months ago
One of the things that I have noticed about Rob in many interviews that I've seen on You Tube is that he has a very hard time answering a direct question. He was asked if he believe that hell is forever? He talked and talked but never came close to answering the question. He makes the statement in the above video "The bride of Christ is a mysterious thing don't mess with it". He makes statements like this in order to say, leave me and my wierd theology alone or God may judge you.
LazmanBrazil 4 months ago
Sorry Rob, you're the wrong tuna!
midterngrades 4 months ago
mr Bell is able to question things that we take for granted, so many evangelists try to do that with unbelievers or roman catholics etc
this man is now a hero to me~~~
rwm313 4 months ago
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God's love & mercy endures forever. If He sentenced people to an eternity in Hell, how could His love & mercy endure forever? The Scriptures do not teach eternal punishment. God will judge fairly, as He sees fit.
whatthehellbook . com
whatthehellbook 4 months ago
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Given time more people will discover that many of our medieval interpretations didn't reflect what the original biblical text meant. Rob just found that earlier and remains courageous. And not alone.
agente180 4 months ago
Rob Bell: "I tell people to trust their lives to Jesus".
Re: That's not the point, Mr. Bell! One can have the best-tasting, tropical punch; but if you take a poop in the punch-bowl, the entire beverage becomes BAD!
The church is told to steer clear from false teachers! Christians should heed that imperative!
rkg62976 4 months ago
@rkg62976 whats your point here?
luvleeize 4 months ago
@rkg62976 whats your point here?
luvleeize 4 months ago
@shneider177 Yes but if you actually listen to Rob Bell he backs up everything he said with scripture. Nothing he teaches is outside of the Bible. However the Bible isn't written in black and white as some would like to believe. It was originally written it culture very different from ours and in a different language than ours so it is our job to interoperate the Bible into our lives. Obviously one persons interoperation is going to be differant than some others.
Gat0rsUF 5 months ago
Find out the truth about Rob Bell and his book, Love Wins.. Visit Hells Bell Dot Net.....
PreachingJesus 5 months ago
These types of "gospels" are very tasty to those who do not see that "dying to themselves" to be "buried with Him into His death, raised to walk in newness of life"
Go right ahead. "Many shall say unto Me ,Lord Lord...........and I will say unto them.....DEPART FROM ME YOU LAWLESS."
TR5T 5 months ago
@TR5T White people are making war against The Muslim Saints - and against humanity!!!
White War 3 coming sooon - white people are the riders of the horses of Apocalypse and are The BEASTS of prophecy!!!
Don't be deceived - Satan is using white people to bring in his earthly kingdom!! READ Isaiah 14 12-14!! It say so there!!
HorChild 5 months ago
Rob Bell is a phony .He calls Jesus a liar, because he says that there is no hell, but Jesus is the one who talked about it the most!
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598
HorChild 5 months ago
@s25598 Really. Show me proof of a place called "hell" where a soul will be tormented and tortured forever and ever. Do you know "hell" is the translated word for the greek word Gehenna, which was a dump for burning dead bodies south of Jerusalem. Jesus never mentioned once of a torture chamber under the earth where the devil sticks you with a fork. It was made up by the Roman Catholic Church and passed on down the line. Jesus didn't come to condemn the world but to save it!
oldno74 5 months ago
@oldno74 Revelation 20:12-15 these are God's words see for your self that not every one will be saved, only those who truly believes!!!!
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 That's your proof of a place called hell where people will be forever burned alive?? Remember, God is a consuming fire. Fire in Revelation is imagery, not literal fire from a fireplace. Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire, meaning no more death no more Hades. The ones that were disobedient from Adam to Christ were preached to in the grave (1 Pet 3) then judged at Christ second coming in 70ad, only to be refined and made new. Read Jer 9:7, Zech 13:9, and Mal 3:3. God saves!
oldno74 5 months ago
@oldno74 Jesus's second coming didn't happen 70a.d the destruction of the temple happen that Jesus said would happen. Rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. Also Rev. 20:10 proves that there is a place of torment for ever and ever.
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 Try again. Matthew 24 is very clear that the disciple generation would be the one to see all those things happen-tribulation, persecution, the Heavens being shaken, the sun being darkened, stars falling, the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS. All is imagery for God's judgment against the apostate Jews religion. Read in the context of Scripture, not as a 21st century man. Let Scripture interpret Scripture. Read Isa 19 for similar language and it will help. Fire is a good thing, it refines.
oldno74 5 months ago
@oldno74 First of all if Jesus Christ second coming has already came why is the devil still doing his' evil in the world , because Jesus will destroy the beast and false prophet and bind satan for 1,000 years and also where is new Jerusalem at because it has not happen yet because it will come down from heaven and set were eden was and the Jewish and Gentile Christians will rule with Lord Jesus Christ.
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 Problem number one with your statement. The evil that you see in this world is not from Satan but from man-"and that we may be delivered from wicked and evil men. For not all have faith." 2Thess3:2. Secondly you're looking for a physical Kingdom just like the Jews were doing when Jesus came. Jesus told them that “The kingdom of God is not coming in ways that can be observed, [21] nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There!’ for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you.”
oldno74 5 months ago
@oldno74 are you a Jehovah Witness? Do you believe Lord Jesus Christ is God in the flesh? Because I believe Jesus is God in the flesh and secondly not all the prophesy in the Old Testement has not been fulfilled yet because Damascus has not yet been destroyed and other have not been done yet. And God's word must be fulfilled!
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 No I'm not a JW. I am a person who believes in God the Father, and I believe that Jesus Christ is His Son. Do I without a doubt know that Jesus is God in the Flesh, no. Jesus never claimed to be God, only that the Father was in him. Jesus was a man. He learned as a child, he was tempted, he prayed to God, he wept, he did everything that a human being does. I can't say He is God in the flesh for certain, but he was the first born of the Kingdom and the cornerstone for the church.
oldno74 5 months ago
@oldno74 Jesus did claim to be God in the flesh, He said many time I am that he was God , Moses ask him who should i tell them you are and God said I am that I am and if you cant say that Jesus(God) came in the flesh you are not saved look at 1 John chapter 4 it will tell you everything !
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 You follow man's traditions. If you are born of God then you also are a god and a son of God. Listen to Christ. "Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said, you are gods’? [35] If he called them gods to whom the word of God came—and Scripture cannot be broken—[36] do you say of him whom the Father consecrated and sent into the world, ‘You are blaspheming,’ because I said, ‘I am the Son of God’?(John 10:34)
"nevertheless, like men you shall die"(Psalm 82:7)
oldno74 5 months ago
@oldno74John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word(Jesus) and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him(Jesus); and without him was not any thing made.4 In him(Jesus) was life; and the life was the light of men.5 And the darkness comprehended it not.So you see you cant comprehended the truth because you are not saved , because you must believe that Lord Jesus came in the flesh and he is Yahweh in the flesh. That is the Truth
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 I know, I used to use the same verses when I tried to prove Jesus was God. But, read it again. Where does it say the Word is Jesus the man? The Word is from God, not Jesus. Jesus was the man chosen by God from the foundations of the world, to bring the Word (God's Spirit and light) to mankind. "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind." Num 23
God worked through His Son, Jesus. Everything runs through Jesus, but comes from the Father.
oldno74 5 months ago
@oldno74 The Godhead is God the Father, God the Son , God the Holy Spirit, three person but One God, In Gen. it says Let us make man in our image, because God is three in one, just like man is body, soul, spirit. Jesus was born with out human father so He wouldn't have original sin, God is the only one with out sin so he had to be born by a virgin he was 100% man and 100% God. with out sin! and God is the only one who can for give sins.
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 Where does the text say without a doubt that God is 3 in 1?? What about the 7 spirits of God in Revelation??? You are inserting man's doctrine into the text and have to twist it around to make the trinity work. God is not born He's eternal. Jesus was born because he was a man, but God was in Jesus. The Word was in Jesus. Jesus even said He can do nothing without the Father and the Father tells him what to do. How can God tell God what to do!?
oldno74 5 months ago
@oldno74 The disciples ask Jesus show use the Father and Jesus said have I not been with you all this time and you say show us the Father.
s25598 5 months ago
@oldno74 Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given : and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. theres your proof!!
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 To say I'm not saved is funny. Where is salvation merited on whether I believe Jesus is God? Please show me. “Do not judge, or you too will be judged." Be careful trying to play God. You have no right whatsoever to say who is saved and who isn't. You might want to repent from that statement.
oldno74 5 months ago
@oldno74 our you a muslim, because if you are you are not a Christian, because 1 John chapter 4 states if you can not cofesss that Jesus Christ came in the flesh you are not of God but of the anti-christ . So i'm a questioning whether you are saved or not!
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 Really? Then why do you deny that Jesus Christ comes in the flesh? Read John 6, especially John 6:66. Christ truly does come again in the flesh, every day of the week in the most holy Eucharist in Catholic churches all over the world. Why do you deny this? Jesus was known to them in the breaking of the bread and then he vanished from their sight.......
snooop1e 5 months ago
@snooop1e first of all i was tell this person if you can not confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh. This person is not a true believer that is what it says in 1 John chapter 4. Catholic are not of God either because the communion is in remberence of Jesus death, they prade it around like it is accually Jesus that is sacrilege!
s25598 5 months ago
@s25598 Scripture is very clear that Jesus was coming soon, and that was in the first century. Put yourselves in the shoes of a new convert back then listening to a letter from Paul, James, or John being read to you. You were being told that the Lord's return is at the door, that it's the end of the age, we are in the last days, time is short, and so on. What a cruel trick if they didn't mean what they said. You might as well ignore the writings of Scripture then because they loose credibility.
oldno74 5 months ago
Rob Bell is an EXCELLENT Teacher and a TRUE Annointed man of God1 people keep confusing Him With The REAL Heretic Mark Driscoll, because their Churches WHICH ARE NOT AFFILIATED, BOTH have the same names! mars hill
remusnigga 5 months ago
Rob Bell is refreshing but in many ways challenges the traditonal teaching of the church built up over centuries. We may not like what he has said but there are many home truths about the 'church'. He does not ask to to accept what he says, but we should be open - there is a lot to learn. Jesus challenged the religious leaders of the day - they killed him. Rob Bell is feeling the heat so I say hang in there and keep on preaching the Good News.
cbits2008 5 months ago
@cbits2008 Your logic seems to be:
1 Jesus was persecuted by religious leaders
2 Therefore if someone is being heavily criticized by religous leaders, they are following in Christ's footsteps.
It's a non-sequitar. The judaizers were heavily criticized by Paul in Galatians. The gnostics were heavily criticized by John in 1 John. And rightly so in both cases. BTW, I've never once heard RB preach the Good News - not if by 'Good News' you mean the Gospel as given in the Bible.
john17v17 5 months ago
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What happens when you die? Have you told lies, stolen, used God's name in vain(10 Commandments)? If yes, then you're a liar, thief, and a blasphemer in the sight of God. When you die & be judged by God, you'll be guilty of sin, & go to Hell! But God sent His Son Jesus to shed His blood & die on a cross for your sins, He was buried & rose again from the dead on the third day. If you'll believe the Gospel(Jesus died for your sins,was buried & resurrected)you'll not perish & have eternal life
gramosjr7 5 months ago
The problem with Bell is not just the conclusions he's eluding to BUT it's how he gets there. There are a lot of similarities between Rob Bell and the serpent in Genesis chapter 3. This review helps bring light to what Rob Bell is doing and teaching. HELLS BELL DOT NET
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@PreachingJesus
Notice in this video he says "You can take any line, isolate it from it's context, and make a person say anything they want". That is exactly what Rob Bell does in Love Win's when he tries to quote scripture from the bible. He takes a scripture out of context and then makes it say anything he wants. What a Hypocrite.
PreachingJesus 6 months ago
@toiwin
PLEASE be more considerate of what you say online. You are spewing such hate on a man I can presume you have never even met. Your comments are filled with such hate, it's too difficult to just sit back and watch. & that goes for everyone. DO EVERY ACT OUT OF LOVE. God is so good.
MargaretMaryMeg 6 months ago
Rob Bell is not a Believer, he is a mystic pagen, it shows so clearly. He hardly knows how to even pretend to be a christian. He is a very bad example of a infiltrating Jesuit monk sent in to undermine the early protestant church by the vatican. He should be sacked, as its an epic fail onhis part. it is blatently obvious that he is not nor ever has been a christian.
toiwin 6 months ago
I've learned in this life,when dealing with people that there are 3 times in life when people will throw things:
when i get married they will throw rice-when i die they will throw dirt-and when i'm wrong they will throw rocks.
As soon as someone preaches or says something that we deem wrong we go to the parking lot to find stones.did not peter often say things wrong,that was contrary to what christ said?did he go to hell?no.how do u know?bcuz we no the rest of his story..whats the rest of robs
donavon2007 6 months ago
@aikidocrazy I guess you haven't seen enough of his videos then :)
Steveyy999 6 months ago
@aikidocrazy : Couldn't agree more...me me me...that's all I heard. What about God? His plans for us and how they are laid out in the bible? The same bible he seems to dimisses so easily as a golden idol! Wow, calling Gods word a golden idol! That's rich. How about ONE scripture just one...even Osteen uses one.
abbyguy 6 months ago
It kinda reminds me of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the he thinks that he is right and everyone else that disagrees is wrong, and apostate, a nay sayer and should be walked away from. Notice he never used ONE scripture, not one in his defence. If he truly is a bible teaching pastor then his personal thoughts and beliefs should be secondary. I don't trust him one iota...It's all about him and defending HIS take on the bible, NOT the bible, which is Gods word about Jesus our Savior.
abbyguy 6 months ago
Why do so many Evangelicals hate Rob Bell while claiming the name of Jesus? How can we disown one of our own when we are to love everyone?
ironpocket17 6 months ago
@ironpocket17 There's few problems here...first of all, you assume that because people object to his false teachings that it means that they "hate" him. WRONG! If that were true then we must assume that Paul "hated" the false teachers that he objected to. Second, you asume that he is "one of our own". Jesus said to beware those who come in His name and those who wear the garments of the shepherd but are really false.
ekkIesia386 6 months ago
@ironpocket17 : Don't hate him, just think he is a very well intended, misguided, pastor who is misleading thousands down the wrong path. I wish he would use more scriptures...he may gain some credebility if he did.
abbyguy 6 months ago
The reason why he's talking about himself is that he is defending himself and his church against the world n this is a talk to his church thanking them for their support in their time of hardship.
If you want to see a set of videos done by him which is talking about God look up everything spiritual on YouTube :)
beciwoottehe 6 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Relying on the knowledge of a medical doctor doesnt prove that you studied the "original manuscripts". So, no you dont have the foggiest notion because you keep on relying on others' works. Sorry man, but i think my friend is right. Go to Bible College, and see what we have been trying to tell you! :)
jrcook80 7 months ago
@jrcook80 He doesn't even know which ancient manuscripts he's referring to. You'd think with all of the 10's of thousands of copies from the various times and places he'd be able to tell us. That right there is proof.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@cqqrzgth yeah exactly! The manuscripts were in Hebrew and Greek. I doubt mister ever even studied Greek and Hebrew like he claims he did! By the way, what Seminary did you go to? I noticed that is on your profile. I went to Heritage College and Seminary where William Webb was the prof. Did you know that Rob Bell follows William Webb's last book?
jrcook80 7 months ago
@jrcook80 I only studied a little bit. I'd like to go to Southern or Master's but it's just a pipe dream for now. I took a hermeneutics course (distance) thru Jacksonville Seminary (non accredited) several years ago. I'll probably have to settle for some online classes at Liberty U. Not my first choice but beggars can't be choosers. I'm more of a reformed guy so a reformed education would be ideal.
Now who is this William Webb dude? I've never heard of him?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@cqqrzgth I will inbox you more details. :) Isnt Liberty University in Virginia Beach? Anyways, we will chat! :)
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 One more thing, you just want the Bible to say what you want it to say! Afterall, you do think the Bible is full of errors, and thats where you get your pitiful little ideas. Read the Bible word for word, and stop adding and subtracting words from the Bible that was translated into English from the Greek and Hebrew tongue! Its called the Dead Sea Scrolls! You only rely on others who want to tear the Bible apart, and care nothing for Christianity! Medical doctors do it all the time!
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Now, you say my ideas are corrupt? Okay so now I believe David and Jonathan weren't gay? So, I guess that means I am corrupt, and illusioned? Where does that say that in history? Do you really know anything about history? By the way, I studied the History of Western Civilization in Bible College. I am glad you think you think I am corrupt, but you have 3 fingers pointing back at you. Sorry buddy. :D Harry Potter is witchcraft, and now I understand what you really believe! :)
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 You see, people that DO have the foggiest ideas, can demonstrate that. All you can dom is run off at the mouth. You commit the fallacy of "Phantom Evidence".
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Well perhaps you can tell me which ancient manuscripts have problems and what they are? I mean since you've done all this "research"?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 I've also looked into the history of the church and you know what? Again you are dead wrong. Right now you have a batting average of .000
You haven't even made contact with the ball.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@cqqrzgth He can't make contact with ball because he is wearing his Harry Potter glasses, or shall I say his rose colored glasses? Pretty sad if you ask me! He knows nothing of the history of churches. He has never studied them.
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 I've looked into the history of the bible and you know what? YOU are dead wrong. You haven't got the foggiest idea what you're talking about. You are illinformed, ignorant, mislead, deceived and uneducated. All you have to offer is fragments of willfully wrong information that you have chosen to believe. Your god is the people that lead you around by the nose.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Did you know that the Roman Catholic Church has its own Bible? Thought you didnt know that! :) Witches don't exist as you claim they do. :) Watching Harry Potter and Twlight is man made and full of errors! Now I know why your thinking is so screwed up! Poor 19 year old kid you are! :D God Bless you are! :D
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 I thought you said everyone is going to Heaven? You said the thought of cqqrzgth being in heaven is enough to put people off for good? How does that make sense? Sin can't go into Heaven because God is Holy and Just! No sin is allowed! By the way, there was a big split between the RC church and those of the Protestants as we know today. I sure hope you know the difference! I am not Catholic, I am a born again Christian. Learn the difference for once! :)
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 he can't, he has never gone to Bible College or Seminary like you or ever have. Instead he relies on other's works from a secular environment. Lorraine Day has studied the Bible in a secular university, and he only concern is to rip the Bible apart, and make it look like it is full of errors. Thats all she knows how to do, or how anyone from those universities are wanting to do. I have run across some of those kind of people.
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Revelations 21 is just a book of symbols, so there is no Heaven. We are not going anywhere. Heaven does not exist. See how that works? You just contradicted yourself. You claim we have never studied the exerogsis of the original manuscripts? You must be pretty be darn smart. You say you are 19, and you got saved in October 2007? What did you do? Jump high school into Bible College. You rely on other people's sources instead of studying the background of the books. You have no proof!
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 If you look in look in Revelations 2-3, Jesus is talking about the 7 churches of Asia. If they were crealy symbolss, the rest of the New Tetsament would have never talked about those churches. If the book of Revelations was a a book of symbols, Jesus would not exist. He did not die on the cross as you claim He did. heaven also would not exist because it is just a symbol. Symbols don't reveal the Son of God being glorified in Heaven. We also can't go to Heaven if it is just a symbol.
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 In the future, try not to confuse exegesis with "copy and paste". LOL!
8-]
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 How about the "fire" that you talked about? You know, the one that is used to "purify"?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Exegesis means to draw the meaning OUT OF the text. Now put it to work and tell me all about the unpardonable sin. OUCH!
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Oh you can't answer my question about the scripture. Sorry, I guess you misplaced your "exegesis"? Ha ha LOL ha ha You lose. Looky looky, I got hooky!
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 I don't care anything about that. Answer my question about the scripture!
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 For somebody that "claims" to live in the UK, you sure keep American hours.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 That was just a basic summary of what your posts look like. Looks pretty stupid huh? Yea weel that's how you sound.
Now put that "exegesis" to work and at least act like a man and answer my question K?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Well "LOL" since you haven't I guess I'll assume that you think you have "ha ha" I have yet to see you do this "ha ha" I have exegesis and you don't" You lose "ha ha", I win "LOL".
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Well I have exegesis and original words...see I can do that too. I win. :-p
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Please tell me about what "the earliest believers thought"?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@cqqrzgth Why don't you put your $ where your mouth is and use that "exegesis and original language" and show me what Jesus meant about the unpardonable sin?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 I know what you believe it's just that you have no biblical evidence to support it. You can rattle off all day about what you think but in the end, God's word will decide what is true. In order for people to be saved, their sins must be forgiven but Jesus clearly said that the blasphemy of the holy Spirit would not be forgiven in this life or the one to come. Oops.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@cqqrzgth He is blind....Satan is blinding him. He can't see how blind he is. He believes in that all will get to Heaven, and all of Revelation is a book of symbols.
jrcook80 7 months ago
@jrcook80 He is very blind. You shold see his comments on this video about homosexuality.
watch?v=XKU09rPMfIg
He said that Naomi and Ruth were lezzies.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 If only your passive, non wrathful, all inclusive, gay affirming god had a book that you could look to for answers...
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Wait, I don't think you like going to the scriptures do you? They seem to prove you wrong as well. How about history? No? Yea that one defeats you too. I guees you have no options but conjecture on your side huh?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Good we'll look to the scriptures to settle it then?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Once again you are tripped up by your own faulty logic and misinformation.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Really? I thought you said that you were "searching"? Well guess what? I've prayed too and I've met God. What makes your prayers and your encounter more valid than others?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 It's wierd that you seem to think that your sources trump the sources and documents of others. What makes your sources more reliable?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 You have an uncanny ability to look right past a difficult question and carry on as though it were never even asked. You are not informed nor are you educated in any biblical studies. You simply regurgitate the unfounded words of others.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Your previous references were. Your understanding of Chronology is below that of a retard. Your accusation about Hell and Dante makes as much sense as saying that vampires weren't thought up until the Twilight movies.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Your comments are the epitome of ignorant because they are not supported by any FACTS rather they are just things that you have read from nonreputable sources (blogs, websites) but not any actual hitorical documents.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 My comments are right on track and my questions that you refuse to answer are even more so. Your accusation that Hell came from the writings of Jerome or Dante is historically wrong and inaccurate.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 So when the bookm of revelation mention Jesus Christ, it's not really Him, it's just a "symbol"? When it mention believers it's not really people, it's just symbols?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 How can you quote Romans 3:4, it could have thousands of interpretation?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Revelations 20:11-15: (Rev 20:13-15) 13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. 14 Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.[d] 15 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. - This is all in God's Word. Saying that there are errors won't prove your point. :) Praying for a revlation for you! :D
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Here is a fact for you: Revelations 20:11-15: (Rev 20:11-12) 11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God,[c] and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books.
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Universal reconcialtion is taught against Revelations 20:11-15. Sorry again, but I just looked at your profile, and now I see why you are pretty messed up. The groups you listen to dont even match up with Christian music. I also noticed you watch Harry Potter. Sorry buddy, you can't fool me. Thats witchcraft! We are to get rid of all evil. How do I know this? I have a 15 year old sister who watched all kinds of witchcraft, and she has lied and killed my mother. I wonder why? Satan?
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Wow, you really are stupid. What "history" declared this? I'll ask you AGAIN
What century was Dante and what century was Jerome?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@cqqrzgth What? Not until the 4th century? Hmmm then what do we do with the writings of Clement and Ignatius? Both of them were BEFORE Dante and Jerome and they wrote about Hell. Can you explain them?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Did you know that there are people who say that NASA never landed on the moon in the 60's? Yep. They say it was all faked. So I guess that because they "said so" that means that it's true (acording to your logic)? You see, appealing to people who were in error in history doesn't prove your point either. Yes there were heretical people in history who taught the heresy of universalism but they were declared heretics just like today.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@cqqrzgth Yes, he would always tell you that. I like how he calls us pharisees. Even the pharisees misled many people, and Jesus called them a broad of vipers. I pointed him to Revalations 20:11-15 because it does clearly talks about the Lamb's book of Life. Those who were not found in the Lamb's Book of life, they were cast into Hades. I think it is rather stupid that he would argue with us saying that hell does not exist when really hades is only another term for hell. Keep the faith brother!
jrcook80 7 months ago
@jrcook80 Thanks brother. Blessings to you!
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@cqqrzgth Your welcome brother! May the Lord bless you! Keep the faith! Thanks for standing with me in the fight for the absolute TRUTH written in the WORD Of God! :D
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Since you've declared these "facts" as being facts then certainly you've done the deep research to demonstrate that they are indeed "facts" right? What elements of these "facts" prove so?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Well if you haven't found the truth yet then you need to stop running at the mouth about your so called "facts". Also I called you an "expert" sarcastically. Obviously you are eons from being an expert.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 haha! You are lying through your teeth! When you give us false teaching, you are also known for lying. It is very easy to mark someone's comment as spam. If you don't know how to do it, you are pretty good at covering it up. If you know how to research on your computer, you know how to mark someone's as spam. Besides, Youtube hasn't changed in months. Nice try. :) Oh by the way, you still havent answered any of my questions. You are pretty good at avoiding the questions! :D
jrcook80 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 I figured that since you're an "expert" in textual criticism then you'd be able to justify your claims about mistranslations?
cqqrzgth 7 months ago
@ComoEstas15 Bringing up the pharisees is completely irrelevant to this discussion. The pharisses were a works righteous group of people that thought that they were pleasing God by their works. Since I don't advocate works righteousness then your mention of them is irrelevant.
cqqrzgth 7 months ago