Ben Hogan vs. Tiger Woods - Swing Analysis - Part 2

[learn4perspective]

Dear Mr de Francesco, i would like to add that with johnny miller the position of his hands at the top being marginally higher than the head position requires the spine not to compress/ dip despite the knees and hips moving in a similar fashion. But as you called it "just look at the dip on the way down to the ball!!. Thanks

[learn4perspective]

Dear Mr de Francesco, i want to share some thoughts, your analysis helped inspire. Firstly great analysis!, my ideas may not be popular but i stand on them!!.

In a nutshell, the dips of hogan and tiger is in response to the pivoting of their hips and how the knees respond in kind. At the top the left knee and thus left hip is lowered. Due to the left hip being the pivot point of the backswing!. Forward rotation of the lower half into impact reveals a low right knee. two dips for two hips.

[as435943]

Right. Tiger can't hit a fairway to save him life. Hogan never missed one. Tiger is Tom Watson with todays golf balls and golf clubs that add 50+ yards.

Watson was great out of trouble and a clutch putter. Tiger is great of out of trouble and a clutch putter. Both were just great recoving for bad shots. Same golfer other than Tiger gets the edge of 2 strokes a around because of the equipment reducing the golf course to nothing.

[markmetcalfloans]

Wayne, your info is great! But to me it looks like Hogan started the ball out to the right and it was starting to draw, you said he likes to cut the ball, do you think he was hitting a draw on this swing ?

[wdefrancesco]

@markmetcalfloans Huh...This shot always looked like a tiny cut to me, especially since his exit is below the shaft plane. He supposedly didn't much like to move it right to left, although in her book Kris Tschetter says he moved it both ways in practice.

[TheOneAndOnlycE]

@wdefrancesco

It was in fact a draw. The extended footage of the swing you analysed is on youtube and the ball is clearly drawing. Hogan worked it both ways on the course although his go to shot was a fade. Otherwise a great analysis though!

[TheOneAndOnlycE]

Too bad Tiger changed instructors. I think he was on the right track with Haney. All he needed to change was a steeper shoulder turn, to stop lifting the arms on the backswing and getting the hips and shoulders much more open at impact so that he could release hard to the left and more around his body. Then his swing would have been exactly like Hogan´s.

[wdefrancesco]

@TheOneAndOnlycE Haney's theory of "parallel planes" was the cause for

Tiger's more level trunk movement. Tiger, however, is able to do anything anyone asks of him, and is swinging on exactly parallel planes. It is an improvement over Harmon, but I think Foley is more correct, although people are hysterical about Tiger's practice swings and rehearsals. The problem now is that without right load (moving off the ball) and the added attempt at a no-flip release Tiger is struggling with impact.

[mrjamesgrimes]

Very educational

[robbinzo]

The one obvious thing that I notice is that Hogan started forward as the clubhead was still going back.

Tiger seems to get the club to the top and then start down with those big back muscles of his.

Hogan had a massive amount of lag in to the ball, with the clubhead coming close to touching his right shoulder on the way down.

Does the two-way Hogan motion at the top create more club head lag?

Faldo's slower swing seems to have much less lag in to the ball.

[wdefrancesco]

@robbinzo All good players start their body forward before the club finishes going back. You should be careful to distinguish between lag in transition and lag into impact. Some players who produce seemingly little or no lag at the top (Stricker, Watson, etc..) drag the club perfectly into the ball, producing a forward leaning, sustained impact. Hogan and Sergio use the "whip" they have at the top to great effect. It is no guarantee, however, that early lag will translate into great impact.

[jaaycee]

great videos wayne. subscribed.

i don't know if you have explained it in any of your videos, but would you be able to explain (or direct me to the right video) how it is that these golfers are able to make clean contact (ie. not hitting fat) with that much lowering?

Thank you.

[jpsartrean]

FYI: it looks like Hogan was actually hitting a slight draw in the Youtube footage used here....

cut and paste v=XNgMNK3CtWU (17 secs in)

I'm really starting to wonder if Hogan didn't really go to the cut until after the accident...?

The swing linked to below looks to be a draw also (3 wood?) - but then again, the ball might be slightly above his feet (?)

v=XNgMNK3CtWU (1 min 4 secs in)

[055697]

can you do a vid of tiger's swing a while back compared to now? everyone comments on it these days but not to the detail you do on swings. boy, i'd like to swing a club as ''badly'' as him! angel cabrera could make an interesting subject as well.

anyway nice vids wayne, keep 'em coming.

[bardskiller2]

SWINGS... SWINGS... SWINGS...

after all, its all in the head =)

i really believe that having a good technical swing will help you if you dont have a superstar mind... i mean... rickie does not need a better swing...he is a winner...

when you are a "coward" who think you need a better swing and stuff... u prolly do cuz u cant depend on your head (clearly) and you need good technique... but in the end, the good scores come from the PSICOLOGICAL PART OF THE GAME.

still... tiger is the babe =)

[Aaronva83]

@bardskiller2 - I agree with you on some things and then others are somewhat ignorant. Personally, I believe people should know how to spell the words they are going to use, but that is another topic. Psychology is a very important part of golf, as with many other sports. However, it seems to be more important in individual sports, particularly golf. Despite that, it really doesn't matter how mentally tough you are, if you do not have proper fundamentals you are going to struggle.

[dschultz6072]

@Aaronva83 i agree. if you aren't comfortable with a sound swing, how are you going to get through a 6500 yard golf course? you end up kind of dreading the thought of hitting the ball in fear of hitting it poorly and sending it to an unintended target. the downward spiral of uncomfortable feelings and negative thoughts can continue all the way down your bag into your putter if you can't get all your chips and putts to turn out right, either, because you're relying on them to save your round.