If you pay close attention to the end of the video, you will see that there a number of factors that lead to this near collision. Yes, there could have absolutely have been more time left between groups. Im not sure what your experience level is but someone learning to sitfly can potentially dart accross the sky vs just having a slight backslide. If you pay attention to the direction the first jumper, he is facing up jump run indicating he may have tracked parallel jump run.
I am relatively new to skydiving but don't see how the pull altitude is the main problem here. I only see 6 seconds of separation. The poster may have backed tracked slightly during the sit fly but I can't see this happening without the offending jumper tracking parallel to the jump run. Even if the offending jumper had opened lower and the poster opened at the same level is there still not a chance of mid air collision if one has twists?
Yes, there is a chance that if he pulled lower, we still may have been in the same vicinity but there would have been at least a little vetical separation depending on how high he pulled and how high i pulled if we were to both pull at say 3k which brings in the reason why more time could have been left between groups. There is however, no reason whatsoever a group that is pulling higher should go first. you want as much separation as possible.
This near collision could have been avoided in 3 ways: more time, pull altitudes being properly sequenced, and making sure noone is tracking up jump run. If one is learning to sitfly, they need to know to face perpendicular jump run so if they do slide, it is off the line of flight.
most of the times in skydiving, it isnt just one thing that goes wrong, its a series of things. Luckily im alive and have learned from this. hopefully this scares you too. blue ones=)
new sit flyers tend to back track and since the vertical speeds are higher, so are the horizontal speeds. Its hard to tell from the video but it looks like you may have been facing along jump run. Maybe he did the same. Pretty much the exact same thing happend to me about a week ago.
it should be 1000ft of separation not counting off seconds between exits. Mark the jumpers in front of you, watch them fall away, look straight down, look back to the jumper, look back down, watch the ground...1000 ft your good to go. It could take 5 seconds, it could be 15 depending on winds. The right way to do it.......
I'm glad you missed him. Jump order wasn't established by those on the load, then? One question not answered yet. Was he flying on his belly, or free flying too? Was he tracking along the jump path? Something else is amiss. @7 secs, you should not have ended up so close to him. How high were the freakin winds???
order was established with the exception of pull alt. we were both sitfly solos. he may have tracked up jump run? winds were high i was told. i was relatively new still at the time. my guess now would be around 15-20
Those aren't high winds @altitude. For my DZ, 45+ knots is high. Eight seconds is plenty of separation. He was tracking up the jump line. He almost got you killed. Happily, I was taught from the beginning to check when everyone else is pulling. Think I'd have gone off on that guy on the ground. Glad you're OK.
What does this have to do w/the pertinent questions? If the first jumper was belly-flying. They would have been too close. He said he pulled @4500. BS, he pulled at least @5500. He did so w/o letting others know. He almost got himself, & the poster killed.
@neomuttley It was stated that eight seconds was plenty of time. But that still doesn't explain why the two were so close. Even if the offender was tracking up the line of flight, not many people are that good at tracking to get them that close unless they are tracking for a loooong time. So I'm just adding that there are probably some other things going on. Accidents are rarely caused by only one factor. Yes, the guy shouldn't have pulled high. But what if they had a prem-deployment?
close!!!! i was on my 15th jump after aff b4 i heard the load asking who was opening at wot height!!!! i then realised why, but the instructors shoulda told us about that when jumpin solo!!!!ffs
its called collapsing it. people do that so it doesnt flap so annoyingly. it also in creases drag which slows you down. some people that swoop stow it behind their heads for obvious reasons
way too close. this is my home dz! very surprised he was not asked before he got on the plane. i know on everysingle jump i know everyones pulling altitude. make sure you make this a habit too! glad your ok man.
@jbrinkman86 Cant find the original comment, but in the UK (for instance) someone is designated to supervise the exits. As part of the general mindset of taking responsibility away from the individual which I think is very unhealthy. Im British, but I dont jump here. The USA and France are my top spots. Esp. for a freeflyer.
Damn dude... Like you said, yeah perhaps you should've waited a second or two more, but the problem in this case was clearly that guy pulling that high... What was he first out for then?
if you look closesly at his opening, he is facing up jump run...possibly tracked up... and as for him neing first out, it was justa lack of communication. ii always ask now. you should too.
bad idea for the other guy to pull high and be first out! did you ask him if he tracked to pull? maybe he accidently tracked back into the jump run...
i work at a hospital and see perople old and young crothch rockets and choppers. helmets not helmets. you crash on a bike your kinda fukt. so unless to get ejected form your bike into an open road(hopefully you have leather) then yeah you might walk away. most accidents involve cars that arent paying attention
Whoever told you to leave 8 seconds because the uppers were high, almost killed you dude.
If the uppers are high, you leave more time. The minimum time at Perris is 10 seconds to begin with. The fact that assclown went first and pulled high, only added to things. Everyone gets anxious once the door open, I'll tell the whole plane to fuck off, if they say JUMP...haah Even if you take a few more seconds than required, it's your life, not theirs.
It is not about the time, it is about the separation. You have to see at least a 45 degree angle, if the uppers are pumping it could take a long time. visual brada.
Not true. Separation is about TIME. The 45 degree rule is a very rough estimate and many experienced jumpers argue that it shouldn't be an estimate at all.
Here's what happened in this video. You left a little early, but the worse part is that you're facing parallel to the line of flight. I'm not sure how good you're freeflying is, but by the looks of your legs popping up; not so good. You backslid right on top of the other guy.
the jump run was north. i was facing about south/southewest. i had around 120? at the time. my sit was straight down by then. yeah my legs popped up everyonce ina while but i wasnt back sliding. my wide angle lense with the angle all the way kinda made it look like it.his opeining was facing up jump run. he tracked up?
Oh yeah i see what you're saying. Either way, fuck that guy that jumped out before you. A similar thing like this happened to me and I watched a guy deploy a little under 1000 feet right above me...he was open about 100 feet above me. Haha. Fuck him too.
tandems are have the best safety records. i would definitely look into it. i did it once and i couldnt stop thinking about it and now i jump all the time.. almost 200 in my first year and counting. i used to try and convince people to go but now ive come to realise that if someone wants to jump they will do it. i say go..you wont regret it.
UMMMMMMM NO. i would imagine that some people MAY pass out but i believe the majority dont. the deceleration speed isnt that fast and long enough to cause a lack of blood supply to the brain.(at least for most people, i dont know how that would affect people taking blood thinners)
ok tracking up jump run....the jump run: the direction the plane is traveling over the dropzone... tracking: term used to describe forward movement to provide seperation between skiydivers ie people track away from each other to clear their airspace for deploying their parachuts... if you track up the jump run then you could be tracking into the following groups airspace.... sliding: term used fo moving accross the sky.
..the solo jump was flying in a sit, it is common for new sit flyers to slide backwards because they cannot tell if they are fly down the tube so to speak. hoep that helps
Hey man, with high uppers and opposite direction lowers or any sliding and this can happen. Depending on vertical separation is bad because of malfuctions or premature deployments messing things up. Sometimes stuff happens, makes cool videos though. Did you see the SKY WARS video under mine? I know you saw my coach jump near miss.
Okay, I'd say you barely left 5 seconds of seperation, BUT it looks like sombody had to have been going up/down jump run to be caught overhead that close. But, yea i always ask when everybody is pulling because there are ALOT of rookies at my dz that want to pull high. But, he definately should have fucking told you he was. I mean, he nailed that sit-fly exit, so he should have the experience to know these things.
i counted from 6- 7 seconds. ive watched this video myself about amillion times. im looking at his and hes facing to the north...tracked up jump run? oh and about his experience and knowing things...not saying im the shit but he may have been back sliding. i rather would have been on a 2 way and chased him instead of this
If you pay close attention to the end of the video, you will see that there a number of factors that lead to this near collision. Yes, there could have absolutely have been more time left between groups. Im not sure what your experience level is but someone learning to sitfly can potentially dart accross the sky vs just having a slight backslide. If you pay attention to the direction the first jumper, he is facing up jump run indicating he may have tracked parallel jump run.
jbrinkman86 4 months ago
I am relatively new to skydiving but don't see how the pull altitude is the main problem here. I only see 6 seconds of separation. The poster may have backed tracked slightly during the sit fly but I can't see this happening without the offending jumper tracking parallel to the jump run. Even if the offending jumper had opened lower and the poster opened at the same level is there still not a chance of mid air collision if one has twists?
stunmer 4 months ago
@stunmer
Yes, there is a chance that if he pulled lower, we still may have been in the same vicinity but there would have been at least a little vetical separation depending on how high he pulled and how high i pulled if we were to both pull at say 3k which brings in the reason why more time could have been left between groups. There is however, no reason whatsoever a group that is pulling higher should go first. you want as much separation as possible.
jbrinkman86 4 months ago
This near collision could have been avoided in 3 ways: more time, pull altitudes being properly sequenced, and making sure noone is tracking up jump run. If one is learning to sitfly, they need to know to face perpendicular jump run so if they do slide, it is off the line of flight.
most of the times in skydiving, it isnt just one thing that goes wrong, its a series of things. Luckily im alive and have learned from this. hopefully this scares you too. blue ones=)
jbrinkman86 4 months ago
new sit flyers tend to back track and since the vertical speeds are higher, so are the horizontal speeds. Its hard to tell from the video but it looks like you may have been facing along jump run. Maybe he did the same. Pretty much the exact same thing happend to me about a week ago.
MsterHeadies 8 months ago
it should be 1000ft of separation not counting off seconds between exits. Mark the jumpers in front of you, watch them fall away, look straight down, look back to the jumper, look back down, watch the ground...1000 ft your good to go. It could take 5 seconds, it could be 15 depending on winds. The right way to do it.......
crazycraig66 9 months ago
"fockin @sshole" at 1:36 LMAO or at least thats what it sounded like or what i would have said... damn dude I had a few of those happen to me
atrain910 9 months ago
how high were the winds and one of you tracked down jump run
rguterman 1 year ago
Did he notice how close you got to colliding? I would have shit my pants!
mrsquirtsalot 1 year ago
I'm glad you missed him. Jump order wasn't established by those on the load, then? One question not answered yet. Was he flying on his belly, or free flying too? Was he tracking along the jump path? Something else is amiss. @7 secs, you should not have ended up so close to him. How high were the freakin winds???
neomuttley 1 year ago
@neomuttley
order was established with the exception of pull alt. we were both sitfly solos. he may have tracked up jump run? winds were high i was told. i was relatively new still at the time. my guess now would be around 15-20
jbrinkman86 1 year ago
@jbrinkman86,
Those aren't high winds @altitude. For my DZ, 45+ knots is high. Eight seconds is plenty of separation. He was tracking up the jump line. He almost got you killed. Happily, I was taught from the beginning to check when everyone else is pulling. Think I'd have gone off on that guy on the ground. Glad you're OK.
neomuttley 1 year ago
@jbrinkman86 Can you explain rule of 45 ???? Would that of prevented this near collision?? Glad to see all ended well.
rrr1sportrider 1 year ago
@neomuttley I'm thinking the poster was far from sitting still too.
pulsejet1 10 months ago
@pulsejet1,
What does this have to do w/the pertinent questions? If the first jumper was belly-flying. They would have been too close. He said he pulled @4500. BS, he pulled at least @5500. He did so w/o letting others know. He almost got himself, & the poster killed.
neomuttley 10 months ago
@neomuttley It was stated that eight seconds was plenty of time. But that still doesn't explain why the two were so close. Even if the offender was tracking up the line of flight, not many people are that good at tracking to get them that close unless they are tracking for a loooong time. So I'm just adding that there are probably some other things going on. Accidents are rarely caused by only one factor. Yes, the guy shouldn't have pulled high. But what if they had a prem-deployment?
pulsejet1 10 months ago
i see only 5 sec ...
Claudiusk88 1 year ago
close call.
UKmarkj 1 year ago
i think 1500m=4950 feet lol u got lucky dude:)
Claudiusk88 2 years ago
You were at Skydive Elsinore!...It looks like you waited only 5 seconds. Dude, you were SO lucky!
Blue Skies!
katyu16 2 years ago
Fuck, dude!
ryandsucks 2 years ago
close!!!! i was on my 15th jump after aff b4 i heard the load asking who was opening at wot height!!!! i then realised why, but the instructors shoulda told us about that when jumpin solo!!!!ffs
JuiceBanger1 2 years ago
same happened to me on #17...
since than my mate call me "30feet-man"
punisher17011990 2 years ago
Yikes, super-close eh?
From the look of his canopy, he might've had a premmy he kept quiet about.
The other guy looks like he's pretty much still right beneath you when you exit.
The time you gotta leave between exits varies.
Rule-of-thumb i use is wait til they're close to 45 degrees back from vertical before you get out.
jontube26 2 years ago
One question that has nothing to do with the video: Why do u have to do that with your slider (don't know how they call it, I'm new to the sport..)
DarkDesigner616 2 years ago
its called collapsing it. people do that so it doesnt flap so annoyingly. it also in creases drag which slows you down. some people that swoop stow it behind their heads for obvious reasons
jbrinkman86 2 years ago
what jump master? its everyones responsibility.
jbrinkman86 2 years ago
way too close. this is my home dz! very surprised he was not asked before he got on the plane. i know on everysingle jump i know everyones pulling altitude. make sure you make this a habit too! glad your ok man.
mitsuman95 2 years ago
@jbrinkman86 Cant find the original comment, but in the UK (for instance) someone is designated to supervise the exits. As part of the general mindset of taking responsibility away from the individual which I think is very unhealthy. Im British, but I dont jump here. The USA and France are my top spots. Esp. for a freeflyer.
chanctonbury63 1 year ago
JM should have double checked pulling hights and exit orders/separation
RickF430 2 years ago
Damn dude... Like you said, yeah perhaps you should've waited a second or two more, but the problem in this case was clearly that guy pulling that high... What was he first out for then?
Blue Skies
zwumpuklen 2 years ago
if you look closesly at his opening, he is facing up jump run...possibly tracked up... and as for him neing first out, it was justa lack of communication. ii always ask now. you should too.
jbrinkman86 2 years ago
hooooooly fuck!! what the hell was he pullin at 5 k for going first out?
shazamm51 3 years ago
2 words...dip shit
jbrinkman86 3 years ago
Fuck, man. That was close.
That's when you realise how fast we're actually falling, huh?
Keep Jumping!
Tim91092 3 years ago
dude...trippy, fuck that guy, nice job gettin out of yer sit and pullin quick
Vezina29 3 years ago
bad idea for the other guy to pull high and be first out! did you ask him if he tracked to pull? maybe he accidently tracked back into the jump run...
race2patton 3 years ago
I'll stick with motorcycles, if I crash there is a good chance I'll walk away!
900tdmman 3 years ago
i work at a hospital and see perople old and young crothch rockets and choppers. helmets not helmets. you crash on a bike your kinda fukt. so unless to get ejected form your bike into an open road(hopefully you have leather) then yeah you might walk away. most accidents involve cars that arent paying attention
jbrinkman86 3 years ago
Comment removed
cameraflyer 2 years ago
Whoever told you to leave 8 seconds because the uppers were high, almost killed you dude.
If the uppers are high, you leave more time. The minimum time at Perris is 10 seconds to begin with. The fact that assclown went first and pulled high, only added to things. Everyone gets anxious once the door open, I'll tell the whole plane to fuck off, if they say JUMP...haah Even if you take a few more seconds than required, it's your life, not theirs.
Croatch 3 years ago
It is not about the time, it is about the separation. You have to see at least a 45 degree angle, if the uppers are pumping it could take a long time. visual brada.
labombadericky 3 years ago
yeah, ive learned my lesson after that one forsho.
jbrinkman86 3 years ago
Not true. Separation is about TIME. The 45 degree rule is a very rough estimate and many experienced jumpers argue that it shouldn't be an estimate at all.
Here's what happened in this video. You left a little early, but the worse part is that you're facing parallel to the line of flight. I'm not sure how good you're freeflying is, but by the looks of your legs popping up; not so good. You backslid right on top of the other guy.
surfbum5412 3 years ago
the jump run was north. i was facing about south/southewest. i had around 120? at the time. my sit was straight down by then. yeah my legs popped up everyonce ina while but i wasnt back sliding. my wide angle lense with the angle all the way kinda made it look like it.his opeining was facing up jump run. he tracked up?
jbrinkman86 3 years ago
Oh yeah i see what you're saying. Either way, fuck that guy that jumped out before you. A similar thing like this happened to me and I watched a guy deploy a little under 1000 feet right above me...he was open about 100 feet above me. Haha. Fuck him too.
surfbum5412 3 years ago
i want to jump out of a plane but im too scared to try :(
LTDANMAN44 3 years ago
tandems are have the best safety records. i would definitely look into it. i did it once and i couldnt stop thinking about it and now i jump all the time.. almost 200 in my first year and counting. i used to try and convince people to go but now ive come to realise that if someone wants to jump they will do it. i say go..you wont regret it.
jbrinkman86 3 years ago
plz could u tell me that this is true ive heard that on your first jump when u do tandem you black out when your parachute opens thanks
SenyorPony 3 years ago
UMMMMMMM NO. i would imagine that some people MAY pass out but i believe the majority dont. the deceleration speed isnt that fast and long enough to cause a lack of blood supply to the brain.(at least for most people, i dont know how that would affect people taking blood thinners)
jbrinkman86 3 years ago
so whats it like parachuting cause im thinking about doing it and whats the risk of ya know parachute failing
SenyorPony 3 years ago
so whats it like parachuting cause im thinking about doing it and whats the risk of ya know parachute failing
SenyorPony 3 years ago
so whats it like parachuting cause im thinking about doing it and whats the risk of ya know parachute failing
SenyorPony 3 years ago
Anybody care to explain some of the terminology to a total n00b? Ex: "tracked up jump run" "sliding" "opposite direction lowers" etc.
Thanks, and glad you made it sans death.
Phyrkrakr 3 years ago
ok tracking up jump run....the jump run: the direction the plane is traveling over the dropzone... tracking: term used to describe forward movement to provide seperation between skiydivers ie people track away from each other to clear their airspace for deploying their parachuts... if you track up the jump run then you could be tracking into the following groups airspace.... sliding: term used fo moving accross the sky.
jbrinkman86 3 years ago
..the solo jump was flying in a sit, it is common for new sit flyers to slide backwards because they cannot tell if they are fly down the tube so to speak. hoep that helps
jbrinkman86 3 years ago
I think I got it. This guy jumped out of the plane, but "flew" back towards you once he was out the door. So, when he deployed, he was under you.
Phyrkrakr 3 years ago
that "could" be what happened. those are just a few variables that could have caused what happened.
jbrinkman86 3 years ago
Hey man, with high uppers and opposite direction lowers or any sliding and this can happen. Depending on vertical separation is bad because of malfuctions or premature deployments messing things up. Sometimes stuff happens, makes cool videos though. Did you see the SKY WARS video under mine? I know you saw my coach jump near miss.
NASASTS 4 years ago
Okay, I'd say you barely left 5 seconds of seperation, BUT it looks like sombody had to have been going up/down jump run to be caught overhead that close. But, yea i always ask when everybody is pulling because there are ALOT of rookies at my dz that want to pull high. But, he definately should have fucking told you he was. I mean, he nailed that sit-fly exit, so he should have the experience to know these things.
skydiver187 4 years ago
i counted from 6- 7 seconds. ive watched this video myself about amillion times. im looking at his and hes facing to the north...tracked up jump run? oh and about his experience and knowing things...not saying im the shit but he may have been back sliding. i rather would have been on a 2 way and chased him instead of this
jbrinkman86 4 years ago
Glad you survived
flipper084 4 years ago
How bad do you wish the other dude had a camera aimed right back at ya? Could of been a lot worse :S
Slider84 4 years ago