13H Refutes; Eugenics, Evolution and Psychiatry

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod .. you do realize that paper was written in 1960. You really want to debate a 50 year old view of mental illness?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens What paper?? Give me the details. . Actually..You can quote any  paper ... for example addiction to the internet... dsm5 ... or whatever paper you want to disagree with regarding mental illness... you chose the scientific debate. I will respond...

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod The Myth of Mental Illness was written in 1960..

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens Oh I see what you are saying....Einsteins general relativity was published in 1916. Would you like to discuss such an old theory? Darwin maybe? Or do you dismiss anything that is over 50 years old??? I do not. Do you? why?

[Mrscientificmethod]

complete ignorance of the scientific method. So you discount any science before 1960? Really? Really??????

[Mrscientificmethod]

I used to think you had a little modicam of intelligence. But the more you speak the less i am sure of.... next point please....

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod "do you dismiss anything that is over 50 years old?"

No.. but if I was presenting an argument for evolution, I certainly wouldn't want to use the work of Darwin as a basis.. to use your analogy. Wouldn't you rather something that shows a more current understanding of how the mind works?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens So who would you use then? (and you cannot use anyone who would call themselves a Darwinist!) In what way has Darwins theory of natural selection been shown to be invalid. Thanks.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens Szasz does not write anything about how the mind works. I am aware of philosophers such as Chalmers and Dennett and Crick on the mind but I don't think these ideas are used in medical practise! Do you mean the brain? Szasz does point out that the term 'mental disease' is actually a metaphor. A Myth. And thus diseases of the brain are dealt with by scientific neurologists. Diseases of the mind are dealt with by pseudo-scientific quacks.

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod Just let me know when you have everything in order. We'll talk then.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens Ok..hope not to take too long.. Not having made a video before I need to learn a few technical things.... thanks.

[Mrscientificmethod]

It is 6:47 in the morning here.. i must sleep... but i do encourage you to state your case..... just to make me giggle when i wake...

[nico3212]

their is ample evidence against his views.

however everyone is entitled to opinion as every opinion their is a market

nicholas

[13Heathens]

Various cultures practiced Eugenics for thousands of years prior to the creation of the term, as well as thousands of years before the development of psychiatry... did you not pay attention to the audio?

[nico3212]

but psychiatry and eugenics are connected.

this guy is wrong.

making out darwin an intellectual but another medieval folly bigot who looked down at the masses

[hate4uall]

facts are a great thing :)

[lostinthelandoflies]

You remove comments from people who disagree with you and threaten to ban them from making further remarks. This is the kind of person you are. Yes? Did you do this? Or not?

[13Heathens]

The threat had nothing to do with not agreeing with me. It had everything to do with personal attacks, your wild unfounded accusations pointing to irrelevant conclusions, and your irrational hostility based upon assumptions which have no basis in reality.

[lostinthelandoflies]

Which you could have refuted. And let others decide. My wild unfounded accusations would have revealed my ignorance. I am happy to do that. I like to be corrected when I am wrong. I actually welcome it.

[13Heathens]

I could have, but honestly, I dislike such tactics. Everyone has their bad days, and online it's easy to jump to conclusions. I prefer to stop people from making asses of themselves in hopes they'll slow down long enough to be able to have an objective discussion.

Ranting accomplishes nothing.

[lostinthelandoflies]

Yeh I know... sometimes I get too passionate and take arguments to extremes in order to prove a point. I do try to stay 'sober'!

[13Heathens]

So be it. In the future I will sit back while you jump to wild conclusions and make monumental and illogical leaps...

.. like in the example in which I defended an abolitionist that had some weird ideas about why some people have darker skin ..

.. and then you ask accuse me of being the sort that would defend the KKK or Hitler.

Frankly there is a limit to the amount of stupidity I chose to tolerate.

[13Heathens]

Now that's exactly the sort of comment I'm talking about! how in the hell do you jump from pre-screening for major genetic defects to

"arranged marriages and mutilation of childrens genitals"

I've humored you long enough. So, tell me how in do you get, in the tiny little mind of yours, from point A to point B.

[13Heathens]

You know what annoys me most about a lot of shrinks.. They'll take one innocuous statement and run with it.. until the reach the point that they've got you in a rather elaborate pigeon hole which is completely irrelevant to the initial comment which was made.

You're doing the same thing here. Your comments were based on your own misconceptions at the onset, and they're fast becoming spam.

If you want to express your opinion you're welcome to do so, however needless defamation will not stand.

[lostinthelandoflies]

Here, you actually sound dangerously close to being a supporter of the concept of eugenics. Since you are a Darwinist, I am sure you are not but hey.. be careful. ;-)

[13Heathens]

Darwinist? Meaning that I support the mountain of evidence in favor of evolution? If that's what you mean, I suppose I am.

There are indeed aspects of positive eugenics that I do support.. For example, pre-screening children for major genetic defects.

I have great respect for parents that can handle raising special need kids, but not everyone is capable to do so.

[lostinthelandoflies]

Evolution is a scientic fact. Major genetic defects'? How major? How minor? And what do you do when the tests are positive? Who makes the choice?

[13Heathens]

That's the big question, isn't it? Where to draw that line.

[lostinthelandoflies]

Exactly! I totally agree. Where do you draw the line?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@lostinthelandoflies Where do you draw the line? Good question... not answered. Europe continued forced sterilisation up until the 1970s. Other countries including China still practise it. So where do you draw the line?

[lostinthelandoflies]

Yes it is a big big question. And where do you draw the line? Different from mine. And who do you trust to implement it? Authority or the individual? . Answer please.

[13Heathens]

I removed your embarrassing accusatory rant. If you continue to put words in my mouth like some tin-foil hat wearing fanatic I will block you.

As to where I'd draw the line;

Prior to second trimester, major congenital defects (Down syndrome things of that sort), and the decision should be in the hands of the parents.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens So you are so sure that downs syndrome children should be terminated?

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod Huh? Where did that come from?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens Ok.. wee enter the world of ethics here. How do you define a major congenital defect. Since you tend to believe that the cause of schizophrenia, Bipolar, and ADHD is the result of biological/genetic 'disease'... would you support the elimination of such? The decision should be in the hands of the parents? Take genital mutilation of boys and girls ... should this decision be taken by parents? Is this just?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens Put the rant back. Maybe some people would like to make up their own minds. Let us at least see how this person has put words in your mouth.... You have said that conditions such as ADHD are probably biologically/genetically based. (without any evidence at all) so you would agree that these should be terminated. Ok.. I see where you are coming from...

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod Uuuh put what rant back? What are you talking about?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens Sorry. I realise that i am referring to stuff you posted a couple of years ago. Although these comments appear at the top of your list I should not expect you take any notice now. I mistakingly thought that these videos of yours were more recent. So apologies. Time moves on and people change.

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod "I mistakingly thought that these videos of yours were more recent."

I thought I'd mentioned that these videos were made 3 years ago.. I made all 26 videos over the course of 2-3 weeks, at the request of some protester. After completing the series, I contacted a high ranking COS member and pointed out many of the falsehoods in the video. Several months later they released a new series which was far less objectionable, and thus was not covered.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens What?? LOL!! So you contacted a high ranking COS member and showed them the error of their ways ... and several months later they released a new series??? What planet are you on??? Evidence? None.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@Mrscientificmethod Can I ask what were the errors that you pointed out. And how was the video changed?

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod "Can I ask what were the errors that you pointed out"

Third attempt to keep it in 500 characters.. Just look for one of the old pamphlets which were put out by the German Anons during that timer period. Most of the points I made were in there.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens I have had a quick google for german anons....nothing relevant. can you be more specific about what you say? Please?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens 500 characters? .. you cannot express yourself with any less? Most people do.....

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod "you cannot express yourself with any less?"

I guess I'm just not obnoxious enough to post 10 replies in rapid succession.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens Oh dear.... you can spend hours on your videos but you cannot accept those that spend a few minutes to comment. They must be obnoxious????? Prat. 

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod "several months later they released a new series???"

Yup. I got the name and phone # from one of my Anon contacts. It's correlation and causation. I can't claim that the new release wasn't coincidental.. However I would tend to believe that the Anon fliers, which pointed out many of the same issues I mentioned to peter, had more impact than my phone call.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens Any evidence?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens 'I can't claim that the new release wasn't coincidental. So removing the obscrurant double negatives... you say...' I can claim that the new release was coincidental' Jeez... the more you speak the more you reveal... Anon? Who is this? Peter? What the fuck are you bleating about?

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod "What the fuck are you bleating about?"

I'm getting tired of the insults. When you do get blocked, which you will at this rate, It will be for being an obnoxious prick. Yes, a double negative. I can't claim that the timing was not coincidental, nor can I claim that It was. So you rush into this not knowing why the series was made, or who it was made for.. wow.. is it lecture time?

[Mrscientificmethod]

oh yeh... those little Szasz followers' like myself. Who you have so far you have refused to debate with.Why ?? Because of your ignorance.... your utter ignorance of his views. Period.

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod I'll say it again pick a fucking book dickhead.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens ok.. the myth of mental illness. You can state your case on video... and so will i....

[Mrscientificmethod]

Will you accept this challenge? 

[Mrscientificmethod]

@Mrscientificmethod or ';the manufacture of madness'

[Mrscientificmethod]

@Mrscientificmethod or anyone of his books... our right to drugs?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens I will own you. I have science on my side... you have superstition and magical thinking to argue with. I will destroy you. ..

[Mrscientificmethod]

I would have accused you of suffering from narcissistic personality disorder but this disease has now been removed from the DSM5.... so you are now considered sane. Ha!

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens So when genetic screening becomes commonplace.. for instance to chose between having a boy or a girl.. or if that child may have ADHD or schizophrenia (your definition not mine.. because you believe in biological psychiatry) then you would support abortion for those 'conditions'. Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying. Please explain further. Thanks.

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod Referencing offhand comments which I made years ago was bound to confuse me, I see where you were getting that from now - next time quote the remark being referenced for clarification purposes please.

Your implication that I think certain children should be terminated is ill-founded. There pare people who are mentally/emotionally/financial­ly unable to cope with special needs children. That's what I was speaking to.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens 'There are people who are mentally/emotionally/financial­­ly unable to cope with special needs children' And your solution is?

[13Heathens]

@Mrscientificmethod "And your solution is?"

I'm pro-choice. It's neither my choice, nor my 'solution'.

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens 'There are people who are unable to cope with special needs children' So what are you suggesting?

[Mrscientificmethod]

@13Heathens Could you define 'special needs kids'? Those that disobey authority? Those that are different? THose that are 'diagnosed' as ADHD? Those who do not conform to 'normality' Please state what you mean. Thanks.

[lostinthelandoflies]

Anthropometrics was first used in the 19th and early 20th century in criminalistics, to identifying criminals by facial characteristics. Francis Galton was a key contributor. Nice guy. ;-)

[lostinthelandoflies]

Scientific racism can refer to both obsolete and contemporary scientific theories, and includes the use of anthropology (notably physical anthropology), anthropometry, craniometry, and other disciplines in the construction of typologies and the classification of humans into distinct biological races. Such theories, which often postulated a "master race" were along with eugenics, pioneered by Sir Francis Galton (among others) and popularized at the turn of the 20th century

[lostinthelandoflies]

Galton developed the science of Eugenics whose primary concept was "control" and promotion of quantification and analytical measurements of "desirable traits" so as to set a guide on how to obtain the "truly proper breeding". From Wiki.

[13Heathens]

Did you not listen to the video?

[lostinthelandoflies]

No.. I went to the original source.. so as not to accept your confirmationary bias... ;-)

[mrgeorgegenius]

over and over the eugenicists roll this rock up the hill and over and over it rolls down .,often on them.all men are are created equal..but like the ants ,which theese social biologists believe we resemble .,or should resemble ..the the eugen icists toil away in their dark underground passages.they always have a new plan .put your head down and listen ,and you can hear their latest and greatest plan.

[lostinthelandoflies]

Good comment..

[stinkyswinka]

WOW! Love your videos! Love your voice and when you get sarcastic!!

[groupie86]

That is some good stuff:) 5 stars!

[soulinite]

Hail Xenu!

[Anonymous1075]

LRH and his BS makes my head hurt :( I love listening to ur vids!!

[Jacobsenacc]

yea the same heppens to me, I forwarded a few things towards mark bunker and tory chistie to help me lol

[AnonFTLD]

VERY well researched!

5 stars!

[identifymous]

After spending several hours reading through Dianetics, it's so refreshing to hear these videos of yours. It's like a cool breath of reason over my brain.

I rely on you, in part, to keep me sane. Don't fuck it up, please!

[MARYBLEUZ]

great breakdown and explanation for what's about to come! absolutely essential to understand the propaganda used in the CCHR

"Industry of Death"

[soulinite]

Great work!

The Toronto org has been shut down do to anonymous protesters for the last 3 days!

Hail victory! Hail Beauty! Hail Xenu!

[groupie86]

Anonymous approves (even if it is a little bit late:D

[NicNasty1981]

Another great video. Youre easily one of the best channels on youtube. Im glad youve turned your eyes onto scientology

[LadyXenu]

Holding her Pink Lady Alien Pom Pom's..

Rah! Rah!......Go Team Heathens & awesome RED!

5 Stars *****

HUGS* to U both!

[Milky1944]

Nice videos very informative, its a shame most of the scilons can't see em u should send emails spread to word

[deisel1967]

good job again red & 13H

[laladiel]

rock on you two:)

[bodgerd]

10/10

[Anonygoof]

Very interesting.

[truvelocity]

Southern California's population was filled with wanna be actors to be in talkies in the 1920's and Hollywood continued this process even further. We have really good shallow people with some who struggle to reach average intellectual capacity. (I'm kidding, but... Am I?)