Erasing Hell (Francis Chan & Preston Sprinkle)

[themlbcubs1fan]

@letloosethelion and @ElasticGiraffe I think we may be missing the point. God's children are the body and they are called to encourage and build up one another. I love debates but you guys aren't debating, you're standing in your camps shooting arrows. Obviously there are many brilliant people on BOTH sides of this debate so maybe its not as concrete as either of you think. Point is, live it out first and love your brother and then sharpen each other through a real debate not just pointed anger

[TruthIsLife7]

@stevelovesgod "read which one of my comments in which i said people will be tormented for ever. i said the devil... i said people go into the lake of fire with hell "

Sorry, missed this. Sorry for misrepresenting you on this. However, many times in the Bible, the word "aion" Greek for forever is used to refer to things that have an end. I know the verse you're talking about, but I don't see a need to require that to mean endless torture, even for the devil. God says evil will not exist.

[buenajosie]

The issue about hell is a never-ending argument. My question is always: what if it is true? Should we risk finding it out when we are already there and there is no turning back? The bible confirms that not everyone will enter heaven. Be like Jesus. You will know how by reading His teachings. Change into the person Jesus wants us to be. God knows who are His (2 Timothy 2:19, Romans 8:9). Nobody knows that except those who really follow Him.

[orlibonurb]

The amazing heretical comments displayed here by so called "Christians" are incredible to the most, but these are the last of the last days, what can we expect.

1 Timothy {4:1} Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Hell is real, eternal punishment in hell is real, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 13:42).

[Freedomremoved]

Why did Jesus Christ have to die? Jesus Christ, the Son of God, infinitely more valuable then everything else put together x100 thousand. You know, Jesus who left heaven to find lost humanity, who lived perfectly and died a horrible death for everyone? He died for us but why?

[whatthehellbook]

@Freedomremoved He died to conquer death. Death is the most final thing we know and sin leads to death. Jesus overcame the power that death had over us.

[letloosethelion]

@Freedomremoved He died to satisfy the anger of God against man for his sin and rebellion against him. Every drop of wrath was poured out on Christ instead of us. It is actual punishment for the crimes, not just God saying ok,..never mind, I forgive you. Our sins were genuinely paid for with real currency, the suffering and death of Christ. A just sentence was carried out against mankind, but it was carried out on Christ instead of us.

[ElasticGiraffe]

@letloosethelion Penal substitution theory has only been around since John Calvin developed Anselm's view. It is not the historical position of the church, and it is riddled with problems. First and foremost, it is fundamentally UNJUST to punish an innocent person so that guilty, wicked people are let off the hook. Second, Jesus did not receive the same punishment one person would receive in hell, let alone all people. Third, if satisfaction was made for sin, then no sin remains to be forgiven.

[letloosethelion]

@ElasticGiraffe Pictures of Christs sacrifice are all through the bible, if you cant see them, I cant help you, no they did not start with Calvin. If it is unjust for the innocent to die for the guilty, then you are calling God unjust since it is HIS own plan Isa. 53:10-11. He was raised for our justification Rom.5:25 so God was satisfied with the punishment Jesus recieved even if you are not. Christ died for the sins of those his father gave him (his elect), not the whole world see John 17:9

[ElasticGiraffe]

@letloosethelion For the first millennium of the church, all Christians believed Jesus saved us from sin and death, not from the punishment of his Father. Of course Jesus is a sacrifice, but vicarious atonement does NOT imply penal substitution. As a Calvinist you assume no believer could possibly interpret the Scriptures in a non-Reformed way, but I assure you we do. Limited atonement is historically and biblically indefensible, which is why the doctrine did not exist until the 16th century.

[letloosethelion]

@ElasticGiraffe Put your assumptions away and start reading your bible. If you do not like Gods plan then take it up with him. There are many Calvinist/Arminian debates already on youtube watch one of those if you wish, the doctrines of the reformation are very defensible and biblical. A person asked a question about why Christ died and I answered it. It was the right answer, a biblical answer, and you disapprove of it. So what? Did God consult you when he came up with his plan? No.

[katiejw52]

so sad,people beleive this?????

[ElasticGiraffe]

I'm surprised to see all the annihilationists here. lol Greetings from a Christian universalist who also believes divine punishment is of a finite duration. :)

[dejesusluisx]

I was a non-believer a I was taken to hell in a dream, the dream was so strong that I converted, I quit my career to dedicate to serve God. I don't know what actually your book say about the subject, but if you take as a starting point the Bible is inerrant , you'll end up with a misconception. If you want to understand God, first and foremost He is perfect, therefore, God will never be illogical. Hell is the absence of God, the eternal darkness, the absence of light (God). Hell is what u fell.

[urinfamousr79]

Wow how sad that This man reads straight from the bible where he himself reads DESTRUCTiON.... not eternal buring... come on how plain to does have to make it. Destruction is NOT the same as hell and burning eternally..

[urinfamousr79]

bible doesnt teach HELL God told Adam from dust you are to dust you shall return. NO hell there. When we die we go back to the ground for out of the ground God made us.. no need for long winded debates.. Genesis shows When we die, its forever.

[TruthIsLife7]

@stevelovesgod Revelation says the wicked will be CONSUMED. That's not endless torment.

Revelation 20:9 "...But fire from heaven came down on the attacking armies and CONSUMED them. 10 Then the devil, who had deceived them, was thrown into the fiery lake of burning sulfur, joining the beast and the false prophet. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever. 14 Then death and the grave were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death."

[stevelovesgod]

Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet[are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

That's hell. The lake of fire, it's also the second death. Revelation 21:8 cont'd

[dotoree]

@rfvidz I like Francis Chan...but the Bible is very clear that hell is temporary and just a way to end all sin and evil. It's not eternal. See below post, esp. the hell truth site.

[MereChristianLogic]

The doctrine of hell is harsh. I would argue that because of the work of Christ God has empowered us to choose not to go there. Choose to accept Christ and hell is no longer your problem. God has given you, like he gave Adam, the power of choosing Him.

[TruthIsLife7]

@MereChristianLogic Hell is real, but the concept of hell in the Bible is not one of eternal suffering. The Bible says the wages of sin is DEATH, not eternal suffering. Jesus warns us about God who can destroy both body and soul in hell. Revelation 20:9 talks about hell devouring and verse 14 shows that the lake of fire is the 2nd death. There's much more on this in my playlist on hell and also at wwwDOThelltruthDOTcom showing how the eternal hell concept originated in Greek paganism.

[MereChristianLogic]

@TruthIsLife7 Whatever hell is ( at the very least separation from God by some means) Jesus Christ solved that problem for those who believe on Him. That is our good news! Here's to life and life more abundantly!!

[TruthIsLife7]

@MereChristianLogic Yes, that is good news for sure. But, the doctrine of eternal hell has caused literally millions to reject God because they think He's an evil sadistic power monster who enjoys torturing people, etc. This false doctrine has caused more harm to Christianity than almost any other.It is completely impossible to reconcile an eternal hell with a righteous God or many verses in the Bible. The only way to harmonize all verses is hell stopping sin forever, permanently. See below.

[TruthIsLife7]

@MereChristianLogic Yes, that is good news for sure. But, the doctrine of eternal hell has caused literally millions to reject God because they think He's an evil sadistic power monster who enjoys torturing people, etc. This false doctrine has caused more harm to Christianity than almost any other.It is completely impossible to reconcile an eternal hell with a righteous God or many verses in the Bible. The only way to harmonize all verses is hell stopping sin forever, permanently. See below.

[stevelovesgod]

@TruthIsLife7 death and hell is two different things. And the 2nd death is the lake of fire where the unsaved will go. Revelation 21:8, But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burnerth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

That's more than a concept, what part don't people get?

[TruthIsLife7]

@stevelovesgod Hell and death are different yes. Hell is the agent that causes death. See also Malachi 4:1-4. Please look at these sites which lists many verses OT and NT showing that the wicked will be completely destroyed. Replace DOT with .

wwwDOTcreation-science-prophec­yDOTcom/hellDOThtm

wwwDOTteachingheartsDOTorg/dre­17hsthellDOThtml

[stevelovesgod]

@TruthIsLife7 hell and death and Satan, and all the non believers, Goes into the lake of fire. And the devil will be tormented for ever and ever

[stevelovesgod]

Respond to this video...  Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burnerth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

So you have your warnings, And God does not want us to go there. Jesus died so we may inherit the kingdom of God an live with him for ever. Jesus raised from the dead so we can be raised with him. Repent and believe

[dotoree]

"aion" which is translated forever, eternal, etc. is often used to refer to things that end. (Ex. 21:6, Deut 23:6, 1 Sam 1:22, 1 Sam 27:12, 2 Sam 7:16). Kittle’s 10 Volume Unabridged Theological Dictionary is one of the most authoritative word study series and says that "aion" is conditioned by the material and means as long as the material lasts. It can mean without end...since God and His people will live forever in heaven. But, it can refer to things that end with death, such as hell.

[stevelovesgod]

@dotoree Hell ends, because it gets thrown in the Lake of fire

[TruthIsLife7]

@stevelovesgod People will never be tormented forever and ever. The lake of fire is the 2nd death, not endless torment (Rev. 20:14). That's rock solid fact. The devil? Possibly. But, forever and ever often means just until life ends in scripture (see below verses), so its doubtful even in his case.

[stevelovesgod]

@TruthIsLife7 read which one of my comments in which i said people will be tormented for ever. i said the devil... i said people go into the lake of fire with hell

[TruthIsLife7]

@stevelovesgod "aion" &Hebrew terms translated forever, eternal, etc. are often used to refer to things that end. (Ex. 21:6, Deut 23:6, 1 Sam 1:22, 1 Sam 27:12, 2 Sam 7:16). Kittle’s 10 Volume Unabridged Theological Dictionary, one of the most authoritative word study series,says that "aion" is conditioned by the material&means as long as the material lasts.It can mean without end...since God&His people will live forever in heaven. But, it can refer to things that end with death, such as hell.