To my Homosexual brothers. Do not ever believe that God does not love you. He does - just as you are Do not give up your DIVINE HERITAGE. BE OPEN TO THE MOST HIGH, just as you are, ALL ELSE WILL THEN WORK OUT. You are loved.
so sometimes animals get weird - but it is not the norm - animals r basically male to female - all else is abnormal. ...still, take your point - does that mean we R 2 B like the animals? Don't care what U R or what you do, + I know God loves you - what I despise is your agenda to confuse kids with false & deceptive data - compiled by your own. Enjoy your freedom, but If you don't stop pushing at the pillars of society , you may see a backlash of terrible fury. stop trying to mind-rape us.
Fallenyogi completely agree with you. Some gay people will go as far as to say being gay is "as normal" as being heterosexual, and our kids cannot be taught this. Being gay is a sad circumstance, but not equal to a heterosexual relationship.
So children is not a repeatable, observable result, based on behaviors of heterosexual people, that procreation is genetic? If you think scientific proof of the inborn hormones to procreate, and t encourage engaging in activities to procreate, do not suffice your curiosity, I suggest asking newlyweds what they think about. Ask teenagers what they would rather be doing. Ask old people where their grandchildren came from.
Sorry, your point has neither basis nor supporting evidence.
FIrst of all, the research on a genetic basis for homosexuality is inconclusive; it has not been ruled out. And secondly, homosexuality does not have to be genetic to be biologically based. I suspect, as a scientist, that fetal androgen levels will be found to be a key component in the formation of sexual orientation.
redmunkee, I just wanted to reply to you and tell you that your post was the most uneducated, agenda-pushing, ridiculous comment I have ever read in defense of homosexuality.
Only on the basis that heterosexuals can procreate and homosexuals can't.
You are about the dumbest person on the planet with your remarkably idiotic comment. Are you insane? Have you gone mad? Do you even realize what you are commenting?
Its true that there is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is completely genetic. It is true that there is likely some genetic basis for homosexuality based on several studies that focused on twins that are raised apart (Kallman, Heston and Shields, Bailry and Pillard). The lack of a genetic cause does not mean that sexual oreintation is not determined at birth. Scientists now think that sexuality is determined based on the level of male hormons a fetus is exposed to prenatally.
I love the way you jerkoffs like to spout things that scientists "think" may be true.
You make the statement in that way, hopeing that people will pass over the word, "think".
I would have worded it this way.
There is no proof ,in the scientific community, when gender is decided, although some scientists are now working on the theory, that it may be due to the amount of male hormones a fetus is exposed to prenataly.
Both statements mean the same thing, but one misleads the reader.
eyes is correct. Homosexuality is just another sexual perversion. However someone wants to foul their body is their business. What is OUR business is the fact this perversion of homosexuality is only sexual perversion marketed to OUR children in the schools as normal and healthy. It is beyond wrong for the people that engage in sexual unions, that cannot possibly produce a child, have any influance on ours. Educate your children on the HIGH risk for disease in the lifestyle reported in the CDC.
If "God" created man.....and some men are homosexual.....then didn't "god" create homosexuality? No sane man who likes women would choose to be with a guy. Meaning, its not a choice! I LOVE Women...their curves, their breasts, their ---sys, etc. I could never feel that way about a guy. I would imagine a gay guy is no different (other then liking guys) People, its 2009, lets turn the page and let adults do WHATEVER they want in their own homes, as we have MUCH bigger fish to fry right now.
25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (Rom. 1)
yoseman1 this god creates homos,then turns around and destroys sodom, calls men lying with men as women an abomination? youre not making any sense. the problem is they dont want to keep it in the home.they want everyone to eat shit and like it.
The so-called "issue" of whether homosexuality is genetic or learned is a complete red herring. Does anyone care what causes some people to be left-handed? Does anyone care why some people prefer their coffee with cream and sugar, while others take it black -- and some people don't like coffee at all?
Whatever people do that doesn't harm others has nothing to do with morality. It's simply a matter of taste.
Even is Keyes is correct that homosexuality is not grounded in genetics (which I pretty much disagree with) why is it immoral to have sex with a partner from the same gender? Who does it hurt?
It's a shame that bigotry can be justified through faith. The fact of the matter is that there is a plethora of scientific convergence on the issue and it is indeed a natural and normal part of the biological and psychological human condition (not to mention other species). It's a matter of those with a political agenda and preconceived notions of the Judeo-Christian sex model that have a problem swallowing this. Objectivity illuminates only when it is embraced rather than dismissed.
While I don't agree with you that people are born gay, I do agree that people whatever lifestyle and as you said behavior they choose should be to find a person and stick with them.
I don't mean to be offensive and I apologise if I have made you made asserting my belief, but I do agree that we should all behave morally in our actions.
Of course your born gay. Its just the same as being born straight !! Can you conceive of an upbringing that would have resulted in you being gay? I cant, I was born to fancy women, end of.
playsetman thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a homosexual. he must think keyes is talking about people who disagree with him. someone get that loser a dictionary.
playsetman is a closet homosexual. hopefully someday, he'll "choose" to be honest with himself.
wow, it's hard to combat such stupidity. First of all, the God that may or may not exist is far beyond human understanding. That means the stupid books people wrote thousands of years ago are WRONG!!! Second of all, humankind is destroying the diversity of species on earth. There are real problems to deal with on this planet, and people who focus on the "sin" of homosexuality are sinning. Shouldn't you be doing something more positive?
in the bible god DEMANDS that we KILL HOMOSEXUALS. He demands it in a few different passages and i think we need to get back to the bible!!! alan keys can lead the way!!
indeed, if sin could be killed off, paradise would be attained. unfortunately that will not happen until Christ returns to set up Hid kingdom. Murder is explicitly wrong, as it homosexuality. God stipulated that perversity of ALL kinds be punishable by death in order that the nation of Israel be able to bear the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The Old Testament was preparation for the coming of Christ as a child, and Christ purported the Law. Christ finished the Law but we are still accountable.
In general, I enjoy Alan Keyes, but not here. I believe people have a right to be happy and live w/o interference. I do not believe it is right to mix religion and politics. Sexuality (in private) has nothing to do with morals. Say a man is forced to be heterosexual by the pressures of society. He has a kid, married for 7 years, then has a breakdown because he didn't do what he felt in his heart and it ends up in divorce. Is it better to be honest or to live a lie? Lying, that's a sin right?
homosexuals want gay marriage cuase it will lead to be taught in schools that it is a normal behavior-the gays will tell students they have a choice.They will tells boys when they are at that age when they dont like girls that it means they are homosexual.I saw a gay pride parade on tv where a gay had on a shirt that said "I dont like men,I like boys"-shirt showed thier true goals.There have been societies in history completly free of homosexality-proof right there
separation of church & state... everyone has the right to believe what they want... not everyone believes the bible to be the word of god... not everyone even believes in god... so why can't people live the way they want to?... shouldn't everyone have that right?... it doesn't affect you so there's no reason to hate, jesus didn't preach hate
No, he's not. If that was the case, every confused 14 year-old would become "gay". Even sodomites themselves only claim that 10% of the population is "gay". The truth is that the percentage is more like .10%. It is a learned and acquired behavior, plain and simple. It is also despicable, disgusting, and an abomination to the God who makes the rules! Any who think it is just a mere "sexual preference" show their abysmal ignorance of the blight that homosexuality really is to mankind.
this is why they want gay marriage-if it becomes legal,public schools will have to say it is normal and a alternate lifestyle-when boys are at the age they dont like girls,they will say this means they are gay and they will call it "prejudice" if a parent speaks out and could even be called a hate crime resulting in a chlid being removed and palced with a gay couple that "understands"
This is nonsense. Not a single reputable psychiatrist or scientist of any kind would support this claim.
Is there any scientific evidence for it? No, there is not. You're just suffering from homophobia, homophobia that is rooted in religion.
By the way, as god makes the rules, and as animals follow their natural instincts, how come that about 1500 (!) kinds of animals engage in homosexual or bisexual behavior?
Homosexuality was classified as deviant behavior by the APA until 1973. Did they suddenly change their mind due to new evidence? No, they changed due to violent disruptions of their meetings by gay activists. Now there's an example of bigotry and intolerance for you.
Dogs sometimes engage in homosexual behavior. Dogs also eat their own feces and vomit. Do you really want to be compared to a dog? If so, perhaps we should have you neutered.
"Another accusation that surfaces in the media is that the categories in DSM are politically determined and decided by vote. Sometimes the media reference the 1973 decision to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder from DSM. It is entirely appropriate that diagnoses evolve as new research appears.
The leadership of APA recognized, 36 years ago, that psychiatrists had been seeing only those homosexual individuals who presented for psychiatric care, and that the stigma against homosexuality was psychiatrically toxic. New research not limited to patient populations failed to demonstrate any causal association between psychopathology and sexual orientation. Of course the decision was finalized by a vote of the APA elected leadership.
Actually it was because there was scientific research, but nice try anyway.
So dogs enrage when they're homosexual, according to you. Your next point, however, applies to heterosexual dogs too, so again, your argument has failed. Your have fallen victim to a logistical fallacy, the red herring.
There isnt even any proof, that animals know the difference between male and female, so how could they engage in homosexual behavior? Do animals Love? there is no proof of that either. Wake up and turn your brain on.
This is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard. So easy to debunk, but unthinking liberals fall for it.
Is sleeping with a neighbors wife a choice or something one has no choice over doing or not doing? You can choose to not sleep with your naighbor's wife, right? You can also choose to not sleep with your neighbor's dog, or son.
You say it's a choice. May I know the reasons you have for this statement? You can't seriously believe that people wake up one day, and say: "I think from now on I will be a homosexual".
And, psychiatrists, psychoanalysts and psychotherapists clearly say it is not a choice. And I do suppose that they know much more about human psychology than you.
Well it is the job of Christians to indeed "deal with it." The problem is with those who would not believe. I say to you, homosexuality is wrong; this is the truth, deal with it. That kind of worldview is broken. Sociopaths think wanton murder is likable and satisfying; stimulating to the senses as gays purport homosexuality is. If your worldview is correct, sociopaths are justified because they like what they do. there must be moral absolutes.
The only 'sin' here is pushing your make-beleive friend's 'morality' on everyone BUT yourself. Didn't your make-believe friend's make-believe son say that 'looking upon a woman with lust' IS adultery? Doesn't your book of fairy tales say that homsexuality is as evil as adultery? Can you put two and two together? PLEASE remember: when your children are misbehavin' DON'T do what your god did and drown them all!
where do you get your own morality? you must have had it pushed on you by someone? your parents maybe? your worldview is broken, sorry. morality must be absolute, or else anything may be justified.
Homosexuality is a SIN. It's the same as lying, stealing, murdering, envy/jealosy, etc....It's an act of selfishness and rebellion against God. Keyes is absolutely right.
Are you serious? Ya I love you use God as a great example to attack homosexuality. Christianity and many other religions have been responsible it's self of creating genocide.
I know right? Thats what they do. They don't believe in natural homosexuality because the Bible is against it. So they just cling to anything that they can that validates their point after that. They don't admit it, but they definitely do.
It is sin based on an ancient book. Do you think that everything in the bible is true? For example that women should shut up in church or should not wear men's clothing; or that adulterers, or people who work on Sabbath, should be stoned?
When two people of the same sex have sex, it doesn't harm anyone, and is thus only their business. Murder does harm another person; it is not a voluntary act.
YEAH! we want to go back to the glorious days of connservatism! AHHH!!! weren't the last 8 years awesome??? I think Rush is going going to ask for a bailout. Have you SEEN the price of percocet and doughnuts???
Selling out America like judas is as well thats why America is under a curse because the obstructs principled the ambition of the banks and corporation rather than the principles of god
Sexual feeling, for many (in fact, for most of the world I think) is indeed gray area, as one is wont to say nowadays. Homosexuality is a majority impulse in Asia. But, to say the least, homosexuality is not the only thing that runs free. The question is whether all feeling is worth acting on, and that, I think, is a legitimate debate. The stakes, such as normalized propositioning (elderly to the young, mothers with daughters) should be known in any such discussion that takes itself seriously.
Really disappointed in Keyes here. He tries to use science to support his religious faith, that kills his argument from the start. Just because we have not found evidence for what creates homosexuality does not mean it's acceptable to make stupid assumptions. Keyes, I assume you're a heterosexual, like me, and this is not our affair. We could never understand homosexuality because we aren't homosexual. Stay out of it.
Alan Keyes is very enjoyable to see and hear; he is remarkably intelligent and well-spoken, Even though I don't agree with everything he says. There can be multiple truths to an argument.
What about responsibility for straight people for this "inclination", Mr. Keyes? Homosexuality and heterosexual are just two sides of the same coin! There's nothing bad about either one. That's just a myth propagated by ignorant, hateful elites in cultures all throughout the world.
I already covered animal instincts. Cats kill their kittens because they mix signals from their instincts going from "play mode" to "hunt mode". Its a clashing of stimuli and instincts.
Uhh.. Cats kill their kittens when they think one or more of them are weaker or less likely to live than the rest of them, and will separate said kitten from her to save milk for the others. I experienced this when I accidentally dropped a kitten and her mother kept putting her behind the water heater. (Don't worry, the kitten survived with no noticeable injuries and I love her to death. :3)
However, I haven't noticed any of what you're saying.
AGAIN, I am not trying to justify human behavior with animal behavior. I bring it up only to show there is obviously a genetic component involved. I've already addressed that issue, so either you're being disingenuous or you're not paying attention.
The incidence of homosexuality in animals is nearly identical to the incidence of homosexuality in people. If it was simply a clashing of stimuli and instincts, then all dogs would would have the same susceptibility to homosexuality, but this is not the case.
One would think that it would vary greatly from one species in the animal kingdom to the next, depending on stimuli, instincts and the way they use their senses.
I'm gay and i realised it when i was 12 when i started having sexual feelings towards members of my own sex. Before i was 12 i never experienced any sexual feelings. So you are born either homosexual, bisexual, asexual or hetrosexual. Alan Keyes talks bullshit. He's just a typical religious fascist.
"so it was your choice to be gay. you werent born that way."
Why do you dismiss the claim that it could be something that develops from birth? Is it because realizing this would mean attaching moral guidelines loses much merit when applied to something beyond one's control?
If I knew someone that was infertile or impotent, I would be compassionate and understanding of their disposition. Homosexuality is no less a sexual dysfunction, and as such offer you compassion and sympathy. I've seen a lot of positive result from conversion therapy, if you're ever interested there's something you could look at.
You've listening to Pat Robertson and Alan Keyes too much. If you think homosexuality is a sexual dysfunction, then you are the one who needs therapy. Homophobia is an illness.
I don't know who Pat Robertson is, and I only just heard of of Alan Keyes because of reading Allan Bloom (a secular Jew). I offered you a hand of friendship and some understanding. Homosexuals don't make me feel uncomfortable and I'm not scared of them.
Pat Robertson is a Christian fascist idiot who blamed abortionists and lesbians for 9/11, wants Hugo Chavez to be assassinated, and stood for the Republican nomination in 1988. If homosexuality is wrong, then hetrosexuality, bisexuality and asexuality are wrong too. You are the one who needs help if you think homosexuality is wrong.
Who's saying all sexuality is normal? If you can't tell the difference between two consenting individuals having sex vs the coerced actions of an adult imposing themselves on a child then no one can help you reason.
You said "consenting individuals", don't you mean consenting adults? As far as having sex with children is concerned here is a guy that justifies it - watch?v=wbbBfHRsMBw&feature=related
"You said "consenting individuals", don't you mean consenting adults?"
Teenagers don't usually fall under that range but they are more than welcome to have sex with each other as long as it is consentual.
"As far as having sex with children is concerned here is a guy that justifies it"
Your rebuke is prsenting me with the mad rantings of a youtuber? Not interested. This attempt to try to paint homosexual at par with pedophilia is idiotic. This slippery slope argument is also asinine.
"I've seen a lot of positive result from conversion therapy"
You mean like Richard Cohen who is neither licensed, nor a medic or scientist and "coaches" others to find their inner straight using such brilliant techniques like hitting a racket over a pillow or having him cradle you to experience "healthy paternal love". He came out on CNN too. Wow.
Between 1966 and 1974, more than 1,000 articles appeared in the Medline databases alone on the treatment of homosexuality, showing evidence that homosexual behavior is treatable and changeable. (Satinover, J., Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1996)
Anyone can copy and paste a claim made by such websites as defendmarriage. Can you give me the title of at least one of those studes so I may peruse its content?
30% of those who enter treatment for homosexuality with an experienced therapist are able to achieve a heterosexual adjustment. An additional 30% are able to control their homosexual behavior, although they do not develop a sexual attraction to females. (Warren. Throckmorton, (1996) Efforts to modify Sexual Orientation: A review of outcome literature and ethical issues, Journal of Mental Health and Counseling 20, 4: 283-305)
That number is probably correct. However, that same 30% also has some of the highest rates of depression and suicide of any group of humans. So its mostly a denying of ones true self. Much like how kids will often engage in crime, not because they want to, but rather because of peer pressure.
I'm certain that a heterosexual could be curbed of his sexual appetite as well. We don't do it because we don't deem it necessary. Some of you, however, feel that homosexuality needs to be "corrected," and so we have set up these ridiculous places. The notion that homosexuality isn't genetic is laughable in today's day and age. Homosexuality is not a trend; it has been around since human beings have existed. It's a part of the human condition. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp.
I think you're misunderstanding my point. My argument was that anyone's sexual appetite can be altered by social pressures. Just because people can curb homosexual's sexual appetite doesn't mean that it's a disorder or unnatural. My challenge to you was to put a hetersexual man through the same "therapy" and see if you don't get the exact same result.
We both agree then, like the "fafafini" in Samoa through culture and society we can create a third gender. Now the question is "should we allow the creation of a third gender?" Particularly in Samoa, should they be allowed to raise little boys as girls because their culture once dictated it?
No, we do not agree. You're proposing that homosexuality is created, while I'm suggesting that it is part of the human condition. Homosexuality was not cooked up in a laboratory somewhere. Just as in nature, there are homosexual animals (penguins are probably the most common examples). The question is whether or not you can accept homosexuals for who they are, or if you are going to view them as some weird fetish that doesn't belong.
Animals also practice filicide and cannabalism. Animals are purely sensorial, what we witness is a clash of stimuli and animal instincts.
A person should never be reduced to their sexual urges as you have done. You said "you can accept homosexuals for who they are". You are imply that their sexual acts are intrinsic with who they are. Who they are as a person is not defined by a small sexual impulse they have, or what they do in the bedroom.
But no one is making the case for filicide or cannabilism, so those are irrelevant. All sexual urges are stimuli-based. I could make the same case against heterosexual sexual urges. If you reduce a gay person by their sexual urges, then you must also reduce a straight person. You have yet to demonstrate how homosexual behavior invalidates any moral or ethical code, or why it should be condemned.
"But no one is making the case for filicide or cannabilism, so those are irrelevant." My point was that you can't justify human behavior through animal behavior. You can't kill someone and then say it's the human condition and animals do it. Cases of homicide, filicide and even cannabilism have appeared in court before.
I wasn't justifying human behavior through animal behavior, that's what you're attempting to do. I was simply making the case homosexuality is a genetic trait, as seen in other areas of the natural world.
"Who they are as a person is not defined by a small sexual impulse they have, or what they do in the bedroom. "
Of course not, but if we accept someone for who they are, then we don't criticize them for being homosexual. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. If you followed your own logic, then by your definition, homosexuality should not be an issue for you.
"but if we accept someone for who they are, then we don't criticize them for being homosexual." Some people have a predisposition for alcoholism, but we don't affirm their disposition and we shouldn't think any less of them either.
Yes, but you are somehow trying to conflate alcoholism, a completely unhealthy and harmful trait, with homosexuality, which is not harmful to anyone. If you want to make the case that homosexuality is harmful, then I'm all ears. But as it stands, you are basically making the case that homosexuality is wrong because other things are wrong. There's no logic to your argument. You keep trying to use the "red herring" tactic.
"If you want to make the case that homosexuality is harmful, then I'm all ears"
The median age of death for those who regularly engage in homosexual behavior leaned in the direction of less than 50. The data suggest a "20- to 30-year decrease in lifespan" because of "substantially elevated rates of sexually elevated diseases . . . cancer and heart conditions, and violence among homosexual men and women."
First and foremost that is false (and I will get to that in a moment), but assuming that it were true, then anything that shortened our lifespan would be morally wrong. That includes eating sweets, being a soldier, playing in the NFL, and living in Los Angeles. As citizens, we are allowed to do things that put our OWN health at risk, just so long as it is not affecting anyone else. You can't give me one good reason how homosexuality hurts society.
You are quoting a man, Paul Cameron, who has been completely dis-associated from by the American Sociological Association (ASA), when they made this claim:
"Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism"
He was notorious for manipulating the facts to prove his point. No credible academic outlet will back his claims. What else ya got?
A co-twin study found that men with same-sex partners were 6.5 times as likely as their co-twin to have attempted suicide. The higher rate was not explained by mental health or substance abuse disorders. (Herrell, R. et al (1999) "A Co-twin Control Study in Adult Men" Archives of General Psychiatry. 56, 10: 867 - 874.)
What were the attempted suicide rates of heterosexual twins?
Clinical depression can be a genetic. Therefore, twins (who share the same DNA) often have high comorbidity rates for things such as suicide, as well as specific likes and dislikes. Regardless, that does nothing more than prove that twins react similarly to one another.
One twin is heterosexual and the other twin is homosexual, being a "co-twin control method". The homosexual twin is 6.5 times as likely to have attempted suicide as their heterosexual sibling.
Based off some of the evidence that I've seen, that 6.5 number seems high. That being said, that might be right that suicide rates in homosexuals is higher than it is in heterosexuals. Either way, the highest incidence of suicide is still with widowed men over the age of 50. So what does that say about widowed men over the age of 50?
Your argument seems to be "If it is not harmful then it is not an anomaly". The two are not mutually inclusive. I may have a superfluous finger or other body part. It is not harmful but it is an anomaly. You also seem to be saying "If something is genetic it is not abnormal". These two are also not mutually inclusive. My superfluous finger may be genetic; However, it is abnormal.
First of all, I never said anything about homosexuality being an anomaly or not, so I don't know where you're getting that from. By the way, red hair is a mutation or "anomaly" but we don't seem to have any qualms with that. What is your point?
We know red hair genetically comes from chromosome 4 in the parents and affects chromosome 16. Why don't we have similar data for same sex attraction? I'm not saying "it isn't genetic", it seems we've become ignorant. Much like Allan Bloom's book "Closing of the American Mind", in which society has so open minded it has become ignorant to history and data.
Red hair is vastly different in that it is not behavioral. If it manifested itself behaviorally, like a twitch, most people wouldn't have a problem with treating it. There was recent case on TV where a 16 y/o girl had brain surgery to correct a twitch caused by tourette's syndrome.
You aren't honestly trying to challenge that homosexuality is genetic, are you? Animals exhibit homosexuality. Are you actually suggesting that animals are making a lifestyle choice? Obviously, it is genetic, however, genetics is not the only factor at work.
Most geneticists who study this, compare it to handedness. Whether we are right-handed or left-handed isn't only genetic, but we don't say people "choose" to be left-handed.
"Homosexuality is genetic." I have never said it isn't. But it seems odd that for something as obscure as red hair scientists have track it to chromosome 4 & 16, yet we have nothing of the sort for homosexuality. I'm saying research it, but don't state something non-factual out of ignorance.
I will tolerate homosexuals, not accept them, when they stop trying to force us to believe that their sexual inhibitions are genetic and somehow irreversible. There has been plenty of studies that prove there is no conclusive evidence that there is a "gay gene". There is however evidence that this deviant behavior can be reoriented to heterosexuality without psychological harm. Look it up and shut up.
Ministries that "change sexual orientation" do not claim to change one's sexual desires, only their actions.
Scientists find that when a twin is homosexual, the other twin is homosexual up to 70% of the time- much more than what would be if genes played no role.
Several things are wrong with that statement: first of all, I don't think you meant to say sexual "inhibitions." That would mean things they DON'T do. Second, theses "studies" you refer to, are all tied to some political or religious agenda. It's all groups like "Keep The Family Together", or "Faith and Family." None of them are out to find out the truth, but rather to prove an assumption they already have.
I agree with you. But this is a concept that you introduced. This is not a practical issue for the majority of homosexuals. Most homosexuals are not gay because they were raised as girls, so that is completely irrelevant. You're trying to use this red herring tactic, by mentioning things that are completely unrelated to homosexuality. It's like if I'm trying to justify murder by pointing out how well I dress.
No, because again you are talking about two completely differnt things. There is nothing wrong with a person being gay. There is something wrong, however, with imposing ones will on another. It's equally as wrong to force a straight man to be gay, as it is to force a gay man to be straight.
(Four data sets: obituaries from the homosexual press; two 1994 sexuality surveys; homosexual marriage records for Scandinavia; and Colorado medical records) (Paul Cameron and William L. Playfair)
Let me put it this way: there is nothing wrong with being religious, but it is wrong to impose your religious ideas on people. That's one of the reasons we don't live in a theocracy, (though many fundamentalist Christians wish we did.)
lainie56 ur explenation is amazing i couldnt done it my self, but i still have a question why should we explain why it is immoral they should explain why it is moral first. if they do that than we explain our seves. O YEH GREAT JOB UR ALSOME!!! :)
yea to bad the science is in on non social homosexuality and that it is a chemical nature not a genetic one but a chemical one ...so keyes while u may be afraid of gays ( im not to crazy of them my self) im not going to denie them rights cause they disagree with me WTF
yeah, i just woke up one morning, and said to myself, "Hmm...i think i really want to be a lesbian. I think it'll be fun to have people stare at me, and give me dirty looks. throw things out of their car at me, while they call me a dyke. That sounds like oodles of fun! Yeah! Let's do that!"
People need to inda-stand that it's not WHO yer attacted to, but what you do with that attraction...like he says in here-"moral responsibility" And don't argue you don't have morals, any person will tell you morals are possible: even with out religion!
Mr. Keyes did not "decide" that he was heterosexual. It is written in his heart, put there by God.
There is no scientific proof that being homosexual is genetic. God made Adam & Eve... you know the rest.
If a person has inclinations of homosexuality, it is not by God's will. That person is just free to "feel" what he/she wants. That is why that person needs to know what God's will is so that he/she does not fall into sin by acting out on his/her impulses.
I think homosexuality is a jewish plot to take over the world
cameljammer 2 years ago
Keyes is brilliant and he is absolutely right.
To my Homosexual brothers. Do not ever believe that God does not love you. He does - just as you are Do not give up your DIVINE HERITAGE. BE OPEN TO THE MOST HIGH, just as you are, ALL ELSE WILL THEN WORK OUT. You are loved.
fallenyogi 2 years ago
so sometimes animals get weird - but it is not the norm - animals r basically male to female - all else is abnormal. ...still, take your point - does that mean we R 2 B like the animals? Don't care what U R or what you do, + I know God loves you - what I despise is your agenda to confuse kids with false & deceptive data - compiled by your own. Enjoy your freedom, but If you don't stop pushing at the pillars of society , you may see a backlash of terrible fury. stop trying to mind-rape us.
fallenyogi 2 years ago 2
Fallenyogi completely agree with you. Some gay people will go as far as to say being gay is "as normal" as being heterosexual, and our kids cannot be taught this. Being gay is a sad circumstance, but not equal to a heterosexual relationship.
amoeba527 2 years ago 2
unfortunately there is, its called perpetuating the species
elultz 2 years ago
There's also not scientific basis for the claim that heterosexuality is genetic.
redmunkee 2 years ago 3
So children is not a repeatable, observable result, based on behaviors of heterosexual people, that procreation is genetic? If you think scientific proof of the inborn hormones to procreate, and t encourage engaging in activities to procreate, do not suffice your curiosity, I suggest asking newlyweds what they think about. Ask teenagers what they would rather be doing. Ask old people where their grandchildren came from.
Sorry, your point has neither basis nor supporting evidence.
pshinspections 2 years ago
FIrst of all, the research on a genetic basis for homosexuality is inconclusive; it has not been ruled out. And secondly, homosexuality does not have to be genetic to be biologically based. I suspect, as a scientist, that fetal androgen levels will be found to be a key component in the formation of sexual orientation.
BrygidaNilsson 2 years ago 4
redmunkee, I just wanted to reply to you and tell you that your post was the most uneducated, agenda-pushing, ridiculous comment I have ever read in defense of homosexuality.
DeathToTheseWalls 2 years ago
LOL, are you serious
1776iscoming 2 years ago
Keyes is Right about this
ACEBAKER911 2 years ago 65
Only on the basis that heterosexuals can procreate and homosexuals can't.
You are about the dumbest person on the planet with your remarkably idiotic comment. Are you insane? Have you gone mad? Do you even realize what you are commenting?
aldexrey 2 years ago
Yes there is. The scientific fact that creation which is a natural process in all living things can only be carried on by hetersexual activity.
Checkmate.
destmu 2 years ago 28
Its true that there is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is completely genetic. It is true that there is likely some genetic basis for homosexuality based on several studies that focused on twins that are raised apart (Kallman, Heston and Shields, Bailry and Pillard). The lack of a genetic cause does not mean that sexual oreintation is not determined at birth. Scientists now think that sexuality is determined based on the level of male hormons a fetus is exposed to prenatally.
phippsed 2 years ago 50
I love the way you jerkoffs like to spout things that scientists "think" may be true.
You make the statement in that way, hopeing that people will pass over the word, "think".
I would have worded it this way.
There is no proof ,in the scientific community, when gender is decided, although some scientists are now working on the theory, that it may be due to the amount of male hormones a fetus is exposed to prenataly.
Both statements mean the same thing, but one misleads the reader.
jmbogstad 2 years ago
Wow PropheticObserver.... I couldn't agree more... well said!
spissman 2 years ago
eyes is correct. Homosexuality is just another sexual perversion. However someone wants to foul their body is their business. What is OUR business is the fact this perversion of homosexuality is only sexual perversion marketed to OUR children in the schools as normal and healthy. It is beyond wrong for the people that engage in sexual unions, that cannot possibly produce a child, have any influance on ours. Educate your children on the HIGH risk for disease in the lifestyle reported in the CDC.
hetropride 2 years ago
Homosexuality is one of the biggest causes for AIDS.
Eye2Eye35 2 years ago
Alan Keyes, is on target.
GOD Created, Adam & Eve!
NOT! steven & adema.
Deo Vindice!
rebelstang 2 years ago
If "God" created man.....and some men are homosexual.....then didn't "god" create homosexuality? No sane man who likes women would choose to be with a guy. Meaning, its not a choice! I LOVE Women...their curves, their breasts, their ---sys, etc. I could never feel that way about a guy. I would imagine a gay guy is no different (other then liking guys) People, its 2009, lets turn the page and let adults do WHATEVER they want in their own homes, as we have MUCH bigger fish to fry right now.
Yoseman1 2 years ago 4
25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen. 26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion. (Rom. 1)
kamaujackson811 2 years ago
yoseman1 this god creates homos,then turns around and destroys sodom, calls men lying with men as women an abomination? youre not making any sense. the problem is they dont want to keep it in the home.they want everyone to eat shit and like it.
redn40 2 years ago
The so-called "issue" of whether homosexuality is genetic or learned is a complete red herring. Does anyone care what causes some people to be left-handed? Does anyone care why some people prefer their coffee with cream and sugar, while others take it black -- and some people don't like coffee at all?
Whatever people do that doesn't harm others has nothing to do with morality. It's simply a matter of taste.
scotpens 2 years ago
Even is Keyes is correct that homosexuality is not grounded in genetics (which I pretty much disagree with) why is it immoral to have sex with a partner from the same gender? Who does it hurt?
j53iliff2 2 years ago 3
58% of blacks in a recent poll state that homosexuality is wrong, a sin, and there should be no law to protect such behavior.
eighthof8 2 years ago
It's a shame that bigotry can be justified through faith. The fact of the matter is that there is a plethora of scientific convergence on the issue and it is indeed a natural and normal part of the biological and psychological human condition (not to mention other species). It's a matter of those with a political agenda and preconceived notions of the Judeo-Christian sex model that have a problem swallowing this. Objectivity illuminates only when it is embraced rather than dismissed.
DOSEmulation 2 years ago
I would be interested in that "plethora of scientific convergence on the issue." Would you mind pointing me to it? I'd appreciate it.
reformedradio 2 years ago
Well I don't agree with him on this but I still support him.
I'm gay and find the general gay culture appalling and immoral.
Sexuality isn't a choice but behavior is.
People should have morality with the things they do gay, straight, whatever.
Find one person and stick with them stop fucking around with everyone.
nomadicsky 2 years ago
While I don't agree with you that people are born gay, I do agree that people whatever lifestyle and as you said behavior they choose should be to find a person and stick with them.
I don't mean to be offensive and I apologise if I have made you made asserting my belief, but I do agree that we should all behave morally in our actions.
clarkbailey1973 2 years ago
Of course your born gay. Its just the same as being born straight !! Can you conceive of an upbringing that would have resulted in you being gay? I cant, I was born to fancy women, end of.
Munro1Man 2 years ago 4
playsetman thinks anyone who disagrees with him is a homosexual. he must think keyes is talking about people who disagree with him. someone get that loser a dictionary.
playsetman is a closet homosexual. hopefully someday, he'll "choose" to be honest with himself.
lacrymologyst 2 years ago
wow, it's hard to combat such stupidity. First of all, the God that may or may not exist is far beyond human understanding. That means the stupid books people wrote thousands of years ago are WRONG!!! Second of all, humankind is destroying the diversity of species on earth. There are real problems to deal with on this planet, and people who focus on the "sin" of homosexuality are sinning. Shouldn't you be doing something more positive?
909540 2 years ago
alan explains it perfectly
playsetman 2 years ago
abomination is what homosexuality is
playsetman 2 years ago
in the bible god DEMANDS that we KILL HOMOSEXUALS. He demands it in a few different passages and i think we need to get back to the bible!!! alan keys can lead the way!!
randypagan 2 years ago
indeed, if sin could be killed off, paradise would be attained. unfortunately that will not happen until Christ returns to set up Hid kingdom. Murder is explicitly wrong, as it homosexuality. God stipulated that perversity of ALL kinds be punishable by death in order that the nation of Israel be able to bear the Son of God, Jesus Christ. The Old Testament was preparation for the coming of Christ as a child, and Christ purported the Law. Christ finished the Law but we are still accountable.
Nechobank 2 years ago
well not just homosexuality is sin but all sexual relations outside of marriage for life long commitment.
dard1313 2 years ago
In general, I enjoy Alan Keyes, but not here. I believe people have a right to be happy and live w/o interference. I do not believe it is right to mix religion and politics. Sexuality (in private) has nothing to do with morals. Say a man is forced to be heterosexual by the pressures of society. He has a kid, married for 7 years, then has a breakdown because he didn't do what he felt in his heart and it ends up in divorce. Is it better to be honest or to live a lie? Lying, that's a sin right?
KStray88 2 years ago
homosexuals want gay marriage cuase it will lead to be taught in schools that it is a normal behavior-the gays will tell students they have a choice.They will tells boys when they are at that age when they dont like girls that it means they are homosexual.I saw a gay pride parade on tv where a gay had on a shirt that said "I dont like men,I like boys"-shirt showed thier true goals.There have been societies in history completly free of homosexality-proof right there
playsetman 2 years ago
separation of church & state... everyone has the right to believe what they want... not everyone believes the bible to be the word of god... not everyone even believes in god... so why can't people live the way they want to?... shouldn't everyone have that right?... it doesn't affect you so there's no reason to hate, jesus didn't preach hate
lilstewie86 2 years ago 4
Very good speech. Listen to part 1:10-1:19. That statemnet is so true I think everyone should here this.
mytuber81 2 years ago
I agree! It is sin. Period
repairthis 2 years ago
yup
BrokHomz 2 years ago
He is saying - homosexuality is immaturity.
nez2008 2 years ago
No, he's not. If that was the case, every confused 14 year-old would become "gay". Even sodomites themselves only claim that 10% of the population is "gay". The truth is that the percentage is more like .10%. It is a learned and acquired behavior, plain and simple. It is also despicable, disgusting, and an abomination to the God who makes the rules! Any who think it is just a mere "sexual preference" show their abysmal ignorance of the blight that homosexuality really is to mankind.
tigerlilly66 2 years ago
"Learned and acquired" behavior? Tell me more.
ClumsyRoot 2 years ago
this is why they want gay marriage-if it becomes legal,public schools will have to say it is normal and a alternate lifestyle-when boys are at the age they dont like girls,they will say this means they are gay and they will call it "prejudice" if a parent speaks out and could even be called a hate crime resulting in a chlid being removed and palced with a gay couple that "understands"
playsetman 2 years ago
playsetman, are you hypothesising or giving us your childhood history?
lacrymologyst 2 years ago
"It is learned and acquired behavior."
This is nonsense. Not a single reputable psychiatrist or scientist of any kind would support this claim.
Is there any scientific evidence for it? No, there is not. You're just suffering from homophobia, homophobia that is rooted in religion.
By the way, as god makes the rules, and as animals follow their natural instincts, how come that about 1500 (!) kinds of animals engage in homosexual or bisexual behavior?
fuhrerschein2008 2 years ago
Homosexuality was classified as deviant behavior by the APA until 1973. Did they suddenly change their mind due to new evidence? No, they changed due to violent disruptions of their meetings by gay activists. Now there's an example of bigotry and intolerance for you.
Dogs sometimes engage in homosexual behavior. Dogs also eat their own feces and vomit. Do you really want to be compared to a dog? If so, perhaps we should have you neutered.
PropheticObserver 2 years ago
The Nazis thought homosexuality wasn't generic. Do you really want to be compared to a Nazi?
dartaddict 2 years ago
Jesus thought homosexuality wasn't genetic....do I want to be like Jesus, yes.
kamaujackson811 2 years ago
"Another accusation that surfaces in the media is that the categories in DSM are politically determined and decided by vote. Sometimes the media reference the 1973 decision to remove homosexuality as a mental disorder from DSM. It is entirely appropriate that diagnoses evolve as new research appears.
Darksido 2 years ago
The leadership of APA recognized, 36 years ago, that psychiatrists had been seeing only those homosexual individuals who presented for psychiatric care, and that the stigma against homosexuality was psychiatrically toxic. New research not limited to patient populations failed to demonstrate any causal association between psychopathology and sexual orientation. Of course the decision was finalized by a vote of the APA elected leadership.
Darksido 2 years ago
In the absence of a dictator, or engraved stone tablets descending from the heavens, that is the only way to formalize a decision."
Psychiatry News February 6, 2009
Volume 44, Number 3, page 3
© 2009 American Psychiatric Association
Nada Stotland, M.D., M.P.H.
President
Darksido 2 years ago
Actually it was because there was scientific research, but nice try anyway.
So dogs enrage when they're homosexual, according to you. Your next point, however, applies to heterosexual dogs too, so again, your argument has failed. Your have fallen victim to a logistical fallacy, the red herring.
Skratchable 2 years ago
"Did they suddenly change their mind due to new evidence? No, they changed due to violent disruptions of their meetings by gay activists."
Yeah right, 'cos that's _really_ gonna force the APA to change their mind. Your stupidity is painful.
Art4Noise 2 years ago
There isnt even any proof, that animals know the difference between male and female, so how could they engage in homosexual behavior? Do animals Love? there is no proof of that either. Wake up and turn your brain on.
This is one of the stupidest arguments I have ever heard. So easy to debunk, but unthinking liberals fall for it.
jmbogstad 2 years ago
It's a choice. Period.
JSharmaine 2 years ago
Prove it.
dartaddict 2 years ago 7
Is sleeping with a neighbors wife a choice or something one has no choice over doing or not doing? You can choose to not sleep with your naighbor's wife, right? You can also choose to not sleep with your neighbor's dog, or son.
Thistlesifter220 2 years ago 4
sure, but what you can't choose is who you want to sleep with. If it's between consenting adults, what's the issue?
verstwo2 2 years ago 3
You say it's a choice. May I know the reasons you have for this statement? You can't seriously believe that people wake up one day, and say: "I think from now on I will be a homosexual".
And, psychiatrists, psychoanalysts and psychotherapists clearly say it is not a choice. And I do suppose that they know much more about human psychology than you.
fuhrerschein2008 2 years ago
some people are gay. if you dont like, tough. deal with it.
end of story there is nothing left to discuss.
glaschris08 2 years ago 3
some people dont have morals. Deal with it.
kinderprof 2 years ago
Well it is the job of Christians to indeed "deal with it." The problem is with those who would not believe. I say to you, homosexuality is wrong; this is the truth, deal with it. That kind of worldview is broken. Sociopaths think wanton murder is likable and satisfying; stimulating to the senses as gays purport homosexuality is. If your worldview is correct, sociopaths are justified because they like what they do. there must be moral absolutes.
Nechobank 2 years ago
The only 'sin' here is pushing your make-beleive friend's 'morality' on everyone BUT yourself. Didn't your make-believe friend's make-believe son say that 'looking upon a woman with lust' IS adultery? Doesn't your book of fairy tales say that homsexuality is as evil as adultery? Can you put two and two together? PLEASE remember: when your children are misbehavin' DON'T do what your god did and drown them all!
HulasFan 2 years ago 3
where do you get your own morality? you must have had it pushed on you by someone? your parents maybe? your worldview is broken, sorry. morality must be absolute, or else anything may be justified.
Nechobank 2 years ago
Homosexuality is a SIN. It's the same as lying, stealing, murdering, envy/jealosy, etc....It's an act of selfishness and rebellion against God. Keyes is absolutely right.
graftedin1996 2 years ago
lying is not a sin unless you are lying to god .telling the truth to ungodly man caused the deaths of the listener and the speaker
homosexuality is greatest sin to me because it slaps the godhead in the face
god created the worlds through a technique of opposites
rakkfatha 2 years ago
like electrons and protons? :)
kinderprof 2 years ago
Are you serious? Ya I love you use God as a great example to attack homosexuality. Christianity and many other religions have been responsible it's self of creating genocide.
Heretic920 2 years ago 5
Homosexuality is the same as MURDER??? Okay . . .
larma7 2 years ago
it's a sin like murder. Just like murder is a sin like homosexuality. The main idea of the story is that SIN is the problem.
XiaoFury 2 years ago
Exactly. Sin is sin. Stealing a pencil from work is the moral equivalent of what Hitler did to the Jews.
ClumsyRoot 2 years ago
why? b/c the bible says so...so you do everything the bible says is correct, right? lol
cullensclown 2 years ago
I know right? Thats what they do. They don't believe in natural homosexuality because the Bible is against it. So they just cling to anything that they can that validates their point after that. They don't admit it, but they definitely do.
curmosc 2 years ago
It is sin based on an ancient book. Do you think that everything in the bible is true? For example that women should shut up in church or should not wear men's clothing; or that adulterers, or people who work on Sabbath, should be stoned?
When two people of the same sex have sex, it doesn't harm anyone, and is thus only their business. Murder does harm another person; it is not a voluntary act.
fuhrerschein2008 2 years ago 4
Alan Keyes is a superb statesman for the right. And no, there is no science to a claim of genetic homosexuality. Ain't there.
pshinspections 2 years ago
homosexuality is contradictory to evolution
247617 2 years ago
absolutely right!
dropkicker101 2 years ago
no..it comes along with homosexualtiy. Why is it that common body parts are about 'human decency and intelligence'
sandroeleven 2 years ago
Liberalism is contradictory to the Survival of America !
InsideJob4911 2 years ago
YEAH! we want to go back to the glorious days of connservatism! AHHH!!! weren't the last 8 years awesome??? I think Rush is going going to ask for a bailout. Have you SEEN the price of percocet and doughnuts???
HulasFan 2 years ago
Selling out America like judas is as well thats why America is under a curse because the obstructs principled the ambition of the banks and corporation rather than the principles of god
rakkfatha 2 years ago
HERE! HERE!
cmcphee 2 years ago
Sexual feeling, for many (in fact, for most of the world I think) is indeed gray area, as one is wont to say nowadays. Homosexuality is a majority impulse in Asia. But, to say the least, homosexuality is not the only thing that runs free. The question is whether all feeling is worth acting on, and that, I think, is a legitimate debate. The stakes, such as normalized propositioning (elderly to the young, mothers with daughters) should be known in any such discussion that takes itself seriously.
krane22 3 years ago
Really disappointed in Keyes here. He tries to use science to support his religious faith, that kills his argument from the start. Just because we have not found evidence for what creates homosexuality does not mean it's acceptable to make stupid assumptions. Keyes, I assume you're a heterosexual, like me, and this is not our affair. We could never understand homosexuality because we aren't homosexual. Stay out of it.
uarenotmyfather 3 years ago 4
Alan Keyes is very enjoyable to see and hear; he is remarkably intelligent and well-spoken, Even though I don't agree with everything he says. There can be multiple truths to an argument.
QuantumStates 3 years ago
What about responsibility for straight people for this "inclination", Mr. Keyes? Homosexuality and heterosexual are just two sides of the same coin! There's nothing bad about either one. That's just a myth propagated by ignorant, hateful elites in cultures all throughout the world.
whoo689 3 years ago 4
I already covered animal instincts. Cats kill their kittens because they mix signals from their instincts going from "play mode" to "hunt mode". Its a clashing of stimuli and instincts.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Uhh.. Cats kill their kittens when they think one or more of them are weaker or less likely to live than the rest of them, and will separate said kitten from her to save milk for the others. I experienced this when I accidentally dropped a kitten and her mother kept putting her behind the water heater. (Don't worry, the kitten survived with no noticeable injuries and I love her to death. :3)
However, I haven't noticed any of what you're saying.
ObsTheGreat 3 years ago
AGAIN, I am not trying to justify human behavior with animal behavior. I bring it up only to show there is obviously a genetic component involved. I've already addressed that issue, so either you're being disingenuous or you're not paying attention.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
There is nothing genetic about one male dog mounting another male dog. The poor dog is experiencing a clashing of stimuli and instincts.
majorbelov 3 years ago
The incidence of homosexuality in animals is nearly identical to the incidence of homosexuality in people. If it was simply a clashing of stimuli and instincts, then all dogs would would have the same susceptibility to homosexuality, but this is not the case.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
"The incidence of homosexuality in animals is nearly identical to the incidence of homosexuality in people."
Could you provide a source for this info?
majorbelov 3 years ago 2
One would think that it would vary greatly from one species in the animal kingdom to the next, depending on stimuli, instincts and the way they use their senses.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Well said...Keyes is EXCELLENT!
KinglyNumbaOne 3 years ago
truer wrds never spoken, esp. on Utube.
TJae1 3 years ago
I'm gay and i realised it when i was 12 when i started having sexual feelings towards members of my own sex. Before i was 12 i never experienced any sexual feelings. So you are born either homosexual, bisexual, asexual or hetrosexual. Alan Keyes talks bullshit. He's just a typical religious fascist.
dartaddict 3 years ago 6
Were you ever molested?
nalibok 3 years ago
No.
dartaddict 3 years ago
so it was your choice to be gay. you werent born that way.
bigjonstud54 3 years ago
"so it was your choice to be gay. you werent born that way."
Why do you dismiss the claim that it could be something that develops from birth? Is it because realizing this would mean attaching moral guidelines loses much merit when applied to something beyond one's control?
poolerboy0077 3 years ago
I was born gay and i know it. I don't care what you think.
dartaddict 3 years ago
If I knew someone that was infertile or impotent, I would be compassionate and understanding of their disposition. Homosexuality is no less a sexual dysfunction, and as such offer you compassion and sympathy. I've seen a lot of positive result from conversion therapy, if you're ever interested there's something you could look at.
majorbelov 3 years ago
You've listening to Pat Robertson and Alan Keyes too much. If you think homosexuality is a sexual dysfunction, then you are the one who needs therapy. Homophobia is an illness.
dartaddict 3 years ago
I don't know who Pat Robertson is, and I only just heard of of Alan Keyes because of reading Allan Bloom (a secular Jew). I offered you a hand of friendship and some understanding. Homosexuals don't make me feel uncomfortable and I'm not scared of them.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Pat Robertson is a Christian fascist idiot who blamed abortionists and lesbians for 9/11, wants Hugo Chavez to be assassinated, and stood for the Republican nomination in 1988. If homosexuality is wrong, then hetrosexuality, bisexuality and asexuality are wrong too. You are the one who needs help if you think homosexuality is wrong.
dartaddict 3 years ago
Dartaddict, why do you feel that homosexuality is alright?
majorbelov 3 years ago
Because it is. Homosexuals are born homosexual. There's nothing wrong with it. All sexuality is normal.
dartaddict 3 years ago
If you say that ALL sexuality is normal then you have to say that pedophilia, necrophilia, beastiality, etc is normal.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Those are not sexualitys.
dartaddict 3 years ago 2
Who's saying all sexuality is normal? If you can't tell the difference between two consenting individuals having sex vs the coerced actions of an adult imposing themselves on a child then no one can help you reason.
poolerboy0077 3 years ago
Dartaddict said "All sexuality is normal".
majorbelov 3 years ago
You said "consenting individuals", don't you mean consenting adults? As far as having sex with children is concerned here is a guy that justifies it - watch?v=wbbBfHRsMBw&feature=related
majorbelov 3 years ago
"You said "consenting individuals", don't you mean consenting adults?"
Teenagers don't usually fall under that range but they are more than welcome to have sex with each other as long as it is consentual.
"As far as having sex with children is concerned here is a guy that justifies it"
Your rebuke is prsenting me with the mad rantings of a youtuber? Not interested. This attempt to try to paint homosexual at par with pedophilia is idiotic. This slippery slope argument is also asinine.
poolerboy0077 3 years ago
This youtuber shares the same argument as you, consent between both parties makes it right.
majorbelov 3 years ago
"I've seen a lot of positive result from conversion therapy"
You mean like Richard Cohen who is neither licensed, nor a medic or scientist and "coaches" others to find their inner straight using such brilliant techniques like hitting a racket over a pillow or having him cradle you to experience "healthy paternal love". He came out on CNN too. Wow.
poolerboy0077 3 years ago
Between 1966 and 1974, more than 1,000 articles appeared in the Medline databases alone on the treatment of homosexuality, showing evidence that homosexual behavior is treatable and changeable. (Satinover, J., Homosexuality and the Politics of Truth. Grand Rapids: Baker Books, 1996)
majorbelov 3 years ago
Anyone can copy and paste a claim made by such websites as defendmarriage. Can you give me the title of at least one of those studes so I may peruse its content?
poolerboy0077 3 years ago
30% of those who enter treatment for homosexuality with an experienced therapist are able to achieve a heterosexual adjustment. An additional 30% are able to control their homosexual behavior, although they do not develop a sexual attraction to females. (Warren. Throckmorton, (1996) Efforts to modify Sexual Orientation: A review of outcome literature and ethical issues, Journal of Mental Health and Counseling 20, 4: 283-305)
majorbelov 3 years ago
That number is probably correct. However, that same 30% also has some of the highest rates of depression and suicide of any group of humans. So its mostly a denying of ones true self. Much like how kids will often engage in crime, not because they want to, but rather because of peer pressure.
poolerboy0077 3 years ago
I'm certain that a heterosexual could be curbed of his sexual appetite as well. We don't do it because we don't deem it necessary. Some of you, however, feel that homosexuality needs to be "corrected," and so we have set up these ridiculous places. The notion that homosexuality isn't genetic is laughable in today's day and age. Homosexuality is not a trend; it has been around since human beings have existed. It's a part of the human condition. I don't see why this is so hard to grasp.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
Won't don't you google "fafafini" or look it up on wiki. Samoa is a great social experiment on how culture and society can create a third gender.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Lack of desire for the opposite sex is no less a sexual dysfunction as infertility or impotence.
majorbelov 3 years ago
I think you're misunderstanding my point. My argument was that anyone's sexual appetite can be altered by social pressures. Just because people can curb homosexual's sexual appetite doesn't mean that it's a disorder or unnatural. My challenge to you was to put a hetersexual man through the same "therapy" and see if you don't get the exact same result.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
We both agree then, like the "fafafini" in Samoa through culture and society we can create a third gender. Now the question is "should we allow the creation of a third gender?" Particularly in Samoa, should they be allowed to raise little boys as girls because their culture once dictated it?
majorbelov 3 years ago
No, we do not agree. You're proposing that homosexuality is created, while I'm suggesting that it is part of the human condition. Homosexuality was not cooked up in a laboratory somewhere. Just as in nature, there are homosexual animals (penguins are probably the most common examples). The question is whether or not you can accept homosexuals for who they are, or if you are going to view them as some weird fetish that doesn't belong.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
Animals also practice filicide and cannabalism. Animals are purely sensorial, what we witness is a clash of stimuli and animal instincts.
A person should never be reduced to their sexual urges as you have done. You said "you can accept homosexuals for who they are". You are imply that their sexual acts are intrinsic with who they are. Who they are as a person is not defined by a small sexual impulse they have, or what they do in the bedroom.
majorbelov 3 years ago
But no one is making the case for filicide or cannabilism, so those are irrelevant. All sexual urges are stimuli-based. I could make the same case against heterosexual sexual urges. If you reduce a gay person by their sexual urges, then you must also reduce a straight person. You have yet to demonstrate how homosexual behavior invalidates any moral or ethical code, or why it should be condemned.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
"But no one is making the case for filicide or cannabilism, so those are irrelevant." My point was that you can't justify human behavior through animal behavior. You can't kill someone and then say it's the human condition and animals do it. Cases of homicide, filicide and even cannabilism have appeared in court before.
majorbelov 3 years ago
I wasn't justifying human behavior through animal behavior, that's what you're attempting to do. I was simply making the case homosexuality is a genetic trait, as seen in other areas of the natural world.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
"Who they are as a person is not defined by a small sexual impulse they have, or what they do in the bedroom. "
Of course not, but if we accept someone for who they are, then we don't criticize them for being homosexual. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too. If you followed your own logic, then by your definition, homosexuality should not be an issue for you.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
"but if we accept someone for who they are, then we don't criticize them for being homosexual." Some people have a predisposition for alcoholism, but we don't affirm their disposition and we shouldn't think any less of them either.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Yes, but you are somehow trying to conflate alcoholism, a completely unhealthy and harmful trait, with homosexuality, which is not harmful to anyone. If you want to make the case that homosexuality is harmful, then I'm all ears. But as it stands, you are basically making the case that homosexuality is wrong because other things are wrong. There's no logic to your argument. You keep trying to use the "red herring" tactic.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
"If you want to make the case that homosexuality is harmful, then I'm all ears"
The median age of death for those who regularly engage in homosexual behavior leaned in the direction of less than 50. The data suggest a "20- to 30-year decrease in lifespan" because of "substantially elevated rates of sexually elevated diseases . . . cancer and heart conditions, and violence among homosexual men and women."
majorbelov 3 years ago
First and foremost that is false (and I will get to that in a moment), but assuming that it were true, then anything that shortened our lifespan would be morally wrong. That includes eating sweets, being a soldier, playing in the NFL, and living in Los Angeles. As citizens, we are allowed to do things that put our OWN health at risk, just so long as it is not affecting anyone else. You can't give me one good reason how homosexuality hurts society.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
You are quoting a man, Paul Cameron, who has been completely dis-associated from by the American Sociological Association (ASA), when they made this claim:
"Dr. Paul Cameron has consistently misinterpreted and misrepresented sociological research on sexuality, homosexuality, and lesbianism"
He was notorious for manipulating the facts to prove his point. No credible academic outlet will back his claims. What else ya got?
maelstrom52 3 years ago
A co-twin study found that men with same-sex partners were 6.5 times as likely as their co-twin to have attempted suicide. The higher rate was not explained by mental health or substance abuse disorders. (Herrell, R. et al (1999) "A Co-twin Control Study in Adult Men" Archives of General Psychiatry. 56, 10: 867 - 874.)
majorbelov 3 years ago 3
What were the attempted suicide rates of heterosexual twins?
Clinical depression can be a genetic. Therefore, twins (who share the same DNA) often have high comorbidity rates for things such as suicide, as well as specific likes and dislikes. Regardless, that does nothing more than prove that twins react similarly to one another.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
One twin is heterosexual and the other twin is homosexual, being a "co-twin control method". The homosexual twin is 6.5 times as likely to have attempted suicide as their heterosexual sibling.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Based off some of the evidence that I've seen, that 6.5 number seems high. That being said, that might be right that suicide rates in homosexuals is higher than it is in heterosexuals. Either way, the highest incidence of suicide is still with widowed men over the age of 50. So what does that say about widowed men over the age of 50?
maelstrom52 3 years ago
Your argument seems to be "If it is not harmful then it is not an anomaly". The two are not mutually inclusive. I may have a superfluous finger or other body part. It is not harmful but it is an anomaly. You also seem to be saying "If something is genetic it is not abnormal". These two are also not mutually inclusive. My superfluous finger may be genetic; However, it is abnormal.
majorbelov 3 years ago
First of all, I never said anything about homosexuality being an anomaly or not, so I don't know where you're getting that from. By the way, red hair is a mutation or "anomaly" but we don't seem to have any qualms with that. What is your point?
maelstrom52 3 years ago
We know red hair genetically comes from chromosome 4 in the parents and affects chromosome 16. Why don't we have similar data for same sex attraction? I'm not saying "it isn't genetic", it seems we've become ignorant. Much like Allan Bloom's book "Closing of the American Mind", in which society has so open minded it has become ignorant to history and data.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Red hair is vastly different in that it is not behavioral. If it manifested itself behaviorally, like a twitch, most people wouldn't have a problem with treating it. There was recent case on TV where a 16 y/o girl had brain surgery to correct a twitch caused by tourette's syndrome.
majorbelov 3 years ago
You aren't honestly trying to challenge that homosexuality is genetic, are you? Animals exhibit homosexuality. Are you actually suggesting that animals are making a lifestyle choice? Obviously, it is genetic, however, genetics is not the only factor at work.
Most geneticists who study this, compare it to handedness. Whether we are right-handed or left-handed isn't only genetic, but we don't say people "choose" to be left-handed.
maelstrom52 3 years ago 2
I actually don't have a problem if it is genetic. Parkinson's is genetic from chromosome 4, Huntington's, Crones, Autism, tuberous sclerosis.
If it is not genetic that means it is psychological.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Well, then it's your lucky day. Homosexuality is genetic. So you can stop having a problem with it.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
"Homosexuality is genetic." I have never said it isn't. But it seems odd that for something as obscure as red hair scientists have track it to chromosome 4 & 16, yet we have nothing of the sort for homosexuality. I'm saying research it, but don't state something non-factual out of ignorance.
majorbelov 3 years ago
Animals do not display homosexuality. At best you could argue they display bisexuality.
randont 3 years ago
I will tolerate homosexuals, not accept them, when they stop trying to force us to believe that their sexual inhibitions are genetic and somehow irreversible. There has been plenty of studies that prove there is no conclusive evidence that there is a "gay gene". There is however evidence that this deviant behavior can be reoriented to heterosexuality without psychological harm. Look it up and shut up.
bartdogs99 3 years ago
Ministries that "change sexual orientation" do not claim to change one's sexual desires, only their actions.
Scientists find that when a twin is homosexual, the other twin is homosexual up to 70% of the time- much more than what would be if genes played no role.
ObsTheGreat 3 years ago 2
Several things are wrong with that statement: first of all, I don't think you meant to say sexual "inhibitions." That would mean things they DON'T do. Second, theses "studies" you refer to, are all tied to some political or religious agenda. It's all groups like "Keep The Family Together", or "Faith and Family." None of them are out to find out the truth, but rather to prove an assumption they already have.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
I think a large proportion of people would think it sick to raise a young boy as a young girl.
majorbelov 3 years ago
I agree with you. But this is a concept that you introduced. This is not a practical issue for the majority of homosexuals. Most homosexuals are not gay because they were raised as girls, so that is completely irrelevant. You're trying to use this red herring tactic, by mentioning things that are completely unrelated to homosexuality. It's like if I'm trying to justify murder by pointing out how well I dress.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
If there is nothing wrong with being gay, then there should be nothing wrong with purposely raising someone to be gay.
majorbelov 3 years ago
No, because again you are talking about two completely differnt things. There is nothing wrong with a person being gay. There is something wrong, however, with imposing ones will on another. It's equally as wrong to force a straight man to be gay, as it is to force a gay man to be straight.
maelstrom52 3 years ago
Bibliography -
(Four data sets: obituaries from the homosexual press; two 1994 sexuality surveys; homosexual marriage records for Scandinavia; and Colorado medical records) (Paul Cameron and William L. Playfair)
majorbelov 3 years ago
Let me put it this way: there is nothing wrong with being religious, but it is wrong to impose your religious ideas on people. That's one of the reasons we don't live in a theocracy, (though many fundamentalist Christians wish we did.)
maelstrom52 3 years ago
Haha, that's like trying to raise someone to be black.
ObsTheGreat 3 years ago 2
Ladies and Gentlemen of America....the people have spoken....here he is Alan Keys...a real 100% fool
DgisThatguy 3 years ago 3
lainie56 ur explenation is amazing i couldnt done it my self, but i still have a question why should we explain why it is immoral they should explain why it is moral first. if they do that than we explain our seves. O YEH GREAT JOB UR ALSOME!!! :)
rlgwf 3 years ago
Please explain to me how IT IS ?¿?
rlgwf 3 years ago
That is so true, u not only don't like the truth, u hate it and get realy angre when u hear it.
rlgwf 3 years ago
yea to bad the science is in on non social homosexuality and that it is a chemical nature not a genetic one but a chemical one ...so keyes while u may be afraid of gays ( im not to crazy of them my self) im not going to denie them rights cause they disagree with me WTF
tomdamho 3 years ago
AMEN!!, Keyes is on point with this one.
trufbetold 3 years ago
yeah, i just woke up one morning, and said to myself, "Hmm...i think i really want to be a lesbian. I think it'll be fun to have people stare at me, and give me dirty looks. throw things out of their car at me, while they call me a dyke. That sounds like oodles of fun! Yeah! Let's do that!"
tireswing314 3 years ago 2
wow, you sound totally myopic/close-minded.
People need to inda-stand that it's not WHO yer attacted to, but what you do with that attraction...like he says in here-"moral responsibility" And don't argue you don't have morals, any person will tell you morals are possible: even with out religion!
bahouda2000 3 years ago
Alan Keyes is a very wise man. He speaks eloquently... and he does it without any "uh's" like some other politician does. lol ;)
1Hope4All 3 years ago
I wonder when it was that Mr. Keyes DECIDED that he was heterosexual!
I would like him to answer that!
NotTheRealMeNoWay 3 years ago
Mr. Keyes did not "decide" that he was heterosexual. It is written in his heart, put there by God.
There is no scientific proof that being homosexual is genetic. God made Adam & Eve... you know the rest.
If a person has inclinations of homosexuality, it is not by God's will. That person is just free to "feel" what he/she wants. That is why that person needs to know what God's will is so that he/she does not fall into sin by acting out on his/her impulses.
1Hope4All 3 years ago