Forgive me if somewhere in the the 2,800 comments this has been addressed, but Full-Preterism (past-fulfillment) has done a great job of making sense of this.
Your name is either written in the Book of Life or it's not. If yours is, certainly the prof's childish little attempts to lead you astray with his vids won't be an obstacle.
The difference between a Christian and an unbeliever isn't that the Christian isn't evil. It's that the Christian doesn't want to be evil.
@caelachyt "The difference between a Christian and an unbeliever [is]... that the Christian doesn't want to be evil."
No, the difference between a christian and a nonbeliever is that the christian believes an impossible being created everything from nothing, and the unbeliever doesn't.
Most christians believe they are good even when they claim to follow a god who, according to the bible, commands extermination of entire cultures.
Oh...but "keep the young virgin girls for yourselves".
When Jesus said "this generation" He did not mean them. This generation he said will see all this happen, meaning the last generation, which obviously would be our generation. We are very close to a cashless society which is about to happen very soon. The world economy is going to completely crash soon and you will see "New World Order", no man buying or selling unless he takes the mark of the beast.
Even as a Xtian, these passages and the obvious evidence that his own followers thought he was coming back within their lifetimes had me confused and wondering. It's only by making up supposed metaphorical meanings that one can lessen the cognitive dissonance. The very fact that his own followers falsely believed in his imminent return shows that he was either lying, or, despite being the son of the omniscient Yahweh, not able to communicate clearly.Such incompetence is not worthy of worship!
the big question is what was stopping him? a lie obviously. jesus was dead - his manipulations reached its end. what are they going to do to a dead man?
There is some very good evidence (as Joseph Atwill asserts), that the gospels are a fabrication by the Roman Emperor Vespasian and his son Titus. They sacked Jerusalem/temple in 70AD.
By putting this story of Jesus prior and predicting the overturning of all the stones of the temple, they are saying that the second coming has already happened and the messiah is Vespasian.
Josephus' works of the triumphs of Vespasian parallel stories with in the gospel narrative.
Either that or, as I think, the Hebrews made up the gospels in answer to this and the prediction of the temple burning would have been easy if it already happened. the gospels and the invention of jesus and the veneration of the poor and the weak would have done the rabble-rousing paul expected
@missdoogledog jesus also said, "Go forth and sell all you have and give the money to the poor." Have you done that yet? Seeing as you still have a computer to type inane comments on youtube, you probably have not. Why are you not hearkening to the words of your saviour?
do you know that the earliest accounts of the mark gospel were written around the year 70, when a certain jewish temple was destroyed?
if you definitely think that was a catalyst for jesus' invention, then perhaps the writer of mark was using current events to try and sell jesus a little more
@caelachyt "The World" that Jesus spoke of in Mt 24:14 was the Roman world of his own time. The proof is right under your nose: Romans 16:25,26; Col. 1:5,6 & 23. So, the gospel had gone out to the whole world when Paul wrote in approx. 60 AD.
It's kind of like debunking family members or ex-wives, once you stop hoping that they are okay. When one looks at the deals we are offered, through scriptures, through family and dating partners, one can see their obvious madness. One is only "confused" by all the obvious contradictions in these things when one needs them to be true before examining whether or not they're true. A summary reading of Joshua, for instance, shows the book to be genocidal madness, but no one sees it.
The funny thing with old texts that are revered is that one need only read them freshly, like a child would, without beforehand needing them to be true and rooting for them. If you stop rooting in advance for most ancient writings, but just face them as statements standing on their own merit, with no cultural power behind them, they are usually simply horrid ideas. Your work is amazing because you read these books in the way the authors obviously intended them to be read.
So I take it that you concede the point. In which case I suppose you'll need to change the title of the video to "ProfMTH Was Wrong & Should Be Ignored."
@Killer0fTheSun I believe in all sorts of fiction. This fellow here draws critical analysis of 1st century literature without going back to the original language. He made an serious mistake in his interpretation of the text. No matter, you'll just believe him and mock me.
@ProfMTH I've answered all your questions. You have avoided the most crucial one in regards to your claim in the video. Your assertion is that Jesus was wrong about the second coming in Mark 13 in the teeth of the textual evidence. Mark 13 is not talking about the second coming (perousia) but the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. If it was talking about the second coming the word used would be perousia, not erchomenon. You're just flat out wrong but too proud to admit.
Actually, you didn't. Weird how some people who claim to have devoted their lives to "the Truth" itself just can't seem to deal honestly when it comes to discussions of their faith.
"Mark 13 is not talking about the second coming...."
See below in our initial exchange, which you abandoned in favor of starting a new one to make the bogus declaration that you took it that I had conceded your point.
@ProfMTH I did. I have. I have answered all your questions unless there are some left unvoiced by yourself. Don't you agree that the issue of the second coming is the primary issue of the video? How do you support your claim that it is about the perousia when the word is not in the original Greek in Mark 13? You are nit picking about non existent unanswered questions. Either tell me what I haven't answered or let's move on to the real issue.
@caveatemp "You are nit picking about non existent unanswered questions. Either tell me what I haven't answered or let's move on to the real issue."
I've told you by pointing you to our original exchange in this comment thread. I'm not going to waste my time going around in circles and reposting things for you. Just scroll down a bit and you'll find the question. If you opt not to do that, then stop wasting your time and mine with bullshit protestations. Got it?
@ProfMTH Ok. So you want me to play a guessing game. It's about the clouds, no? The clouds didn't bring judgement, right? The judgement came with the clouds? Am I close?
@caveatemp "So you want me to play a guessing game."
No. Unless you have a disability of some sort that precludes your scrolling down to read where our earlier exchange was when you abandoned it. I'm not going to keep going around about this. Either you scroll down, read it, and answer OR I'm just going to ignore you. The choice is yours.
@ProfMTH I did. All I found were a few questions of mine that you didn't answer. You say you will not waste your time reposting my comments and yet you continue to do that very thing- just not the so called unanswered question of mine. You are truly obfuscating the issue.
@caveatemp ::sigh:: Here's what I asked that you didn't answer (you abandoned the exchange and came back several days later to say I must have conceded your point): "In our intitial comment you said, "The clouds in Mark 13 refer to judgment, which did fall on Israel in 70 AD." In a subsequent comment and again you said, "Clouds are referring to the shekinah glory cloud, not water vapor in the atmosphere." So, no, you were not clear. Which is it: judgment or "skekinah glory" ... or is it both?"
@ProfMTH To which I replied, "The cloud is not judgement, it's a way of talking about God's presence." The cloud does refer to the presence of God which brought judgement- not perousia or epiphany. This is the point of your video and the point of the whole debate.
@caveatemp "To which I replied, 'The cloud is not judgement, it's a way of talking about God's presence.'"
Since your initial claim was, and I quote, "The clouds in Mark 13 refer to judgment," I asked you to clarify.
As for the rest, you put yourself and your scriptures in a very odd by position by your insisting that Mark 13 is not meant to describe the second coming of Jesus.
@ProfMTH And I clarified that one week ago while you insisted I didn't.
It doesn't put the scriptures in an odd position. It puts your assertion that Jesus was speaking of his second coming in an odd position. It is indefensible. There is a specific word for the second coming. It's perousia. That is not the word used in Mark 13. Add to that the fact that Jesus specifically speaks about the temple being destroyed. It's there in Matthew 24 but it's 3 separate question asked there.
@caveatemp Does Matthew 16:27 refere to Jesus' second coming? If not, why not? How about Matthew 24:27, which is from the Matthean version of the same Olivet discourse that Mark 13 purports to present? How about Luke 9:26? If not, why not? How about Acts 1:11 ... does that refer to Jesus' second coming? If not, why not?
@ProfMTH Matt 16 is talking about the same event as in Mark 13 and Matt 24, but in Matt 24 the disciples ask him 3 distinct questions: when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming (perousia), and of the end of the eon? Luke 9:26 is not about the perousia but the transfiguration. Acts 1 is about the second coming in the way it specifically relates to the ascension. By the way, clouds are also used to refer to crowds of people in the N.T. in Heb 12 and in Jude and Acts
@caveatemp "Matt 16 is talking about the same event as in Mark 13 and Matt 24...."
And that same event is *not* Jesus' second coming, is that your claim?
"Luke 9:26 is not about the perousia but the transfiguration."
What is the basis for this claim? The passage says, "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."
@caveatemp "Read what comes immediately after Luke chapter 9. The transfiguration is a prefiguring of the second coming."
So in the Transfiguration Jesus came with his angels and judged human beings?
"Do you have a Greek interlinear translation?"
Yes. Far more importantly, you are wasting my time with plainly bogus attempts to make your Bible say what it does not say in order to protect it from being wrong. Apologetic harmonization bullshit. It's tedious and I'm weary of it.
@ProfMTH The irony is that I feel much the same way. The tenor of my argument from the start was that you are reading into the passages what they do not say. I still can't figure out why you think you're doing exegesis. The Greek is quite clear. It's obvious you have an anti-Christian agenda and are not interested in getting to the truth. The sad part is that you are misleading ignorant and gullible people and that you'll have that millstone tied around your neck.
@caveatemp "The tenor of my argument from the start was that you are reading into the passages what they do not say."
And you've been wrong about that from the start. You feel the need to harmonize these passages, to make the Bible not be wrong. I don't have that need and, therefore, can be honest about what it actually says.
"you'll have that millstone tied around your neck"
Ah, the evangelistic threat--the last refuge of the apologist without an argument.
@ProfMTH You made a big deal about answering all your questions and I have. You, on the other hand, have avoided most of my key questions. Such as how you can say Mark 13:26 is about the perousia when the Greek clearly does not say that? You are the one who is twisting scripture to say what you want it to, not I. And I am in no way threatening you, I was simply referring to the words of Jesus. Take it up with him if you feel threatened. Goodbye and good luck to you. You'll need it.
@missdoogledog referring to the words of Jesus about the millstone is a threat, even if you don't mean to carry it out personally. You're just hiding behind your savior to absolve yourself from personal responsibility. Without bothering to argue about which Greek word means what, look at the basic fact that first century Christians thought Jesus would return within their lifetime. Either Jesus lied, or he is an extremely poor communicator. Either way, not worthy of worship!!!
The clouds are representing the presence of God, which in this instance brings judgement. It seems you're nit picking. The main point is that it's not referring to the perousia.
@ProfMTH It's history. Jerusalem fell. The Romans destroyed it in 70 AD. Not one stone was left on another. This was the judgement Jesus was talking about. Read back into the chapter and you see him mention it specifically. Clouds are referring to the shekinah glory cloud, not water vapor in the atmosphere. He is also prefiguring his return which has not happened yet.
@caveatemp You've yet to give me any basis for your claim about the clouds. I'm well aware that the Jewish Temple was destroyed in 70 CE. Jesus talks about WAY more than just the destruction of the Temple in that chapter. And the text has him saying that the series of events will conclude with his return within the lifetime of the generation alive at the time.
@ProfMTH The basis is the Bible. You use the Bible to interpret the Bible. Meteorology is a modern science. You look at what clouds referred to throughout scripture, not what they mean to meteorologists. Also, it helps to look at the original Greek when interpreting. There is a big difference between the words perousia and epiphany in the Greek but they are translated into one word in most translations: coming. Also, it helps to read not just the skeptics when drawing your conclusions
@caveatemp " it helps to read not just the skeptics when drawing your conclusions"
1st, I was a believer most my life & it's never been my practice to "read just the skeptics." 2d, can you tell me where, if anywhere, in the Greek of Mk 13 the word 'parousia' or 'epiphany' is used & improperly translated into English? 3d, Acts 1:9 uses the same word as Mk 13:26 to say "a cloud received [Jesus] out of their sight" at his ascension. Does it mean Jesus was "received" by judgment? If not, why not?
@ProfMTH Have you read any recent NT scholarship? You only mentioned the skeptics in your video. Mark 13 is clearly about historic events that happened. Daniel predicted the first desecration of the temple in 167 BC. Jesus predicted the destruction in 70 AD.
The "coming" in Mark 13 is not an epiphany or the parousia. The word used is erchomenon. Neither an epiphany nor the parousia took place and the text supports this. What then are you saying? How was Jesus wrong?
@caveatemp "Have you read any recent NT scholarship?"
Yes. Lots of it.
So, it's your contention that what Jesus describes about coming in the clouds with the angels to gather his elect is *not* a description of Jesus' second coming to Earth, is that correct?
And I'd like to know about Acts 1:9 vis-a-vis Mark 13:26. You didn't respond. Mere oversight, I'm sure. Does Acts 1:9 mean Jesus was "received" by judgment? If not, why not?
@ProfMTH Have you read The Resurrection of the Son of God by N.T. Wright or Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Richard Baukham? Just curious. God appears in/through a cloud in the Bible. It's called Shekhinah in the Old Testament. The cloud is not judgement, it's a way of talking about God's presence. So, no, Mark 13 is not about the parousia. If you believe it's talking about parousia, how do you support that claim through the text?
@caveatemp OK, so you've answered one of the direct questions I asked you, i.e., you say Mark 13 is not talking about Jesus' second coming. I'm still waiting for you to answer the question about Acts 1:9, which uses the same word as Mark 13:26. You've neglected to answer it twice now. Someone more skeptical than I might conclude that you're avoiding the question.
@ProfMTH I guess I wasn't clear. The cloud in both passages refers to the shekhinah glory cloud. So why do you think Mark 13 is talking about the parousia when it does not say parousia?
@caveatemp "I guess I wasn't clear. The cloud in both passages refers to the shekhinah glory cloud."
In our intitial comment you said, "The clouds in Mark 13 refer to judgment, which did fall on Israel in 70 AD." In a subsequent comment and again you said, "Clouds are referring to the shekinah glory cloud, not water vapor in the atmosphere." So, no, you were not clear. Which is it: judgment or "skekinah glory" ... or is it both?
Mark13:32 Jesus aknowledges that He Himself does not know the day nor hour but only the Father knows. from Catholic perspective a generation was most likely being used as a metaphor for an age/era. Being that we have been in the era since the Saviors time here with us we can safely say that He is still here with us (in the Eucharist) If you are able to believe from Catholic perspective then you understand that this generation has not yet passed.
@LindaBkrWms Frankly MTH you have given long hours of study to these men in these books but I honestly believe you need to seek out the early church fathers writings to find the answers you deserve to hear. Please google Sts Ambrose, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp. Augustine..these men were brilliant in their understanding as I am not and I honestly do not know how else to help you but to refer you to those that might be able to help you.Also YT search Thomas Aquinas's 5 points.
Since the text in the Bible that describe these events was written long after the situation should have happened, like destruction of the temple and passing away of those Jesus was speaking to, why did the writers write this? It would mean that they wrote down evidence og something that revealed what Jesus said as wrong. Or the writers had a different understanding of the situation maybe. And if so, what was this different understanding?
There is new form of Christian interpretation on this passage.The preterists would say that this is all symbolic language and never meant to be taken literally.gotta check them out for s#+^s and giggles.thanks for the great videos.
The assumption that Christ is referring to the generation he was speaking to in Matt 24, upon which this video hangs, is obviously in error.
Matt 24:14 states "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world...". Clearly, those present to hear His words could not have expected that to have been accomplished in their lifetime. So it is virtually impossible that Christ was speaking of them nor that they saw it as being said of them.
@caelachyt lolwut...you, mean, the people who had no clue how big the world actually was didn't think they could convert the whole world?
And that simply begs the question, which generation would Christ be speaking to?
Furthermore, that's a rather symbolic interpretation of the verse with no sort of justfication aside from your own post hoc speculation to warrant that conclusion.
@101Pilgrim Christ was clear that "these things" would not occur until the gospel was preached to the whole world. That makes the premise that He was speaking of the generation he was addressing then and there an absurd conclusion because completely spreading the message in their lifetime was virtually impossible. It is about what Christ meant, not what they understood it to mean. Your point is moot.
@101Pilgrim There is no "obvious problem with the Bible". The problem is persons ASSUMING Christ was speaking of the generation existent at that time. The prof calls it "the clear meaning" and there is no such thing in the text. It is his biased perception to support his tenuous point and not clear whatsoever. What is clear is that Christ said these things would not happen until the whole world knew and we know as fact that did not happen perhaps even yet. Moron.
@caelachyt I'm sorry, are you going to *actually* deal with the points I'm making, or are you going to keep repeating the issue I addressed before? Here, let me copy/pasta it for you:
"...you, mean, the people who had no clue how big the world actually was didn't think they could convert the whole world?
And that simply begs the question, which generation would Christ be speaking to?..."
And, of course, it's still a post-hoc conclusion you approach with the rationality of an Iguana.
"there is no such thing ([clear meaning]) in the text"
I'm glad we can admit that there is absolutely nothing clear in the Bible at all, and it is a confusing piece, of irrelevant, non-historical gibberish.
@101Pilgrim ""there is no such thing ([clear meaning]) in the text""
"I'm glad we can admit that there is absolutely nothing clear in the Bible at all, and it is a confusing piece, of irrelevant, non-historical gibberish."
Good to see you agree the prof is wrong. Well done.
why do ppl like this only quote part of the scripture instead of the whole scripture so people wont be tabulsa rasa because they prolly haven't read it??smh
@ProfMTH i surely can..@ 4:09 you just say that the time is short but you don't go in depth of what Paul was really trying to tell ppl, which was because time is short you shouldn't worry about the things of the world but make sure your devoting time to do GOD's work for your own benefit for your marriage.
@stutta3 "..@ 4:09 you just say that the time is short but you don't go in depth of what Paul was really trying to tell ppl, which was because time is short you shouldn't worry about the things of the world but make sure your devoting time to do GOD's work for your own benefit for your marriage."
How does that negate the central point--the one relevant to this video--that Paul, under purported divine inspiration, was talking about Jesus returning within his and his contemporaries' lifetimes?
@ProfMTH..well my first comment just tells you that if your going to state a passage from the Bible state all things that correspond to your subject or your topic.My next comment was me just stating the truth of the matter to what you are mixing up. But also in the Bible its says not to argue with a fool so I wont look foolish...and by the way I am Christian and 15yrs. old
@stutta3 "by the way I am Christian and 15yrs. old"
Good! I'm not sure how, if at all, that's relevant to our exchange. But I've wondered about relevance a few times since you've started commenting. Here's what diminish the chances of your looking foolish: be prepared with actual arguments (not mere claims and platitudes and citations to Bible verses that you fail to connect to the discussion), have grounds for your claims, and don't expect your interlocutor to do all the connecting for you.
I always took it to mean that the generation in question was the generation he was describing, not the members of the generation alive at that time. Meaning that the cataclysm of the last days would not last more than one generation, whatever that means. Many have suggested that the restoration of sacrifice in Jerusalem would herald the beginning of the end. Likewise, in Matt 24 when he says, "Many will come... saying, 'I am the Christ,' and deceive many," maybe omit the inner quotation marks?
@QuisletEsq This is where it gets hairy for some people. We separate the sheep from the goats. lol You and me have done many bad things in our lives. Romans 3:23
The penalty of all those things is death. Romans 6:23
Now the only one in history that has "never" been guilty or deserving of Death is the one and only Jesus Christ (Son of God).
So to put a man through such a brutal, unjustified, bloody, agonizing death is something that has never been done since or before His time.
The thought that they would strip him naked, in front of his mother and friends. Spit in His face, call him a "liar", blasphemer. They took a reed put it in his hand, gave Him a purple robe and bowed down to mock him infront of all He came to save. They fashioned a crown of thorns and forced it on his head in which they whipped him untill he was beyond recognition. After this they forced Him to climb a mountain to his exicution with carrying a tree on his bloodied back. While He hung there...
They took the only thing he had in his possession, His robe, and gambled it away like some prize to be displayed. After he was dead they made sure by stabbing him in the side till all his blood was spilled. All of this was done by you and me.
For everything we have done and will do that is worthy of death. Just so we can meet the one who made us, fashioned us in our mothers’ womb. That is why there is none that were like His death and none after. And I praise the Lord my Savior for that.
@QuisletEsq I'm sorry I haven't posted back in so long. I checked my messages and I found this one that I haven't replied to.
But on the question about Jesus comming in the clouds with great power and glory. If you read Jonh 20:19, Luke 24:36, Mark 16:14, Matthew 28:17. In every instance Jesus "appeared" to them. He never came through a door or met them on a road. Now almost every time in the bible God appeared it was in a cloud. Num 16:42, Matthew 17:5, Exdous 19:9, Exdous 16:10........
Clearly Deuteronomy 18:22 does not apply to Jesus, because Jesus is not a prophet. He is God. And you brilliant videos about Book of Job show that God does not always say the truth. So your argument is non existent. :P
@upisoft2 That's probably the worst argument i've ever heard. For you to believe jesus is the son of god, you have to believe what he says, and to believe what he says, you have to assume that he's a prophet first. If i come to you and tell you i'm god, and show you some card tricks, you have to believe me according to your reasoning... don't you have a problem with that ?
@upisoft2 lol, and i totally thought you were being serious ^^! Believe me, i came accross arguments just like this from people who thought it made sense before, lol.
@ThinkerResearcher What I meant by saying that was, I wanted him to keep an open mind. Thinking that there might be a chance that Jesus wasn't wrong after all.
I bet that threw you off to the rest of the posts. And for that I am sorry. But I beg you to endulge me and read the rest and please post any questions you might have. I would love to "try" to answer any questions you might have about my posts or the bible. Thank you for posting so I could clear that up.
so now you dont CARE about prophecies this is according to bible jesus own words and u say now doesnt matter if he got it wrong. here your denying the truth while other christians are pushing forward that jesus was put on cross on THURSDAY not good friday cos they realised there gods prophecy failed or cruciFICTION did not happen and there religion is worthless like it says in bible that u have to blive this or u have no religion
@brokensheep2 Usually, I insist on getting the last word on my channel, but here I'll let your PM do the job: "I will admit my deliver is pretty lame and idiotic, though. There's no justification and the more I thought about me trolling your channel, the more I realized it was a bad idea. I honestly am not homophobic nor do I agree with the language I was using."
I think his resurrection was his return and it happened during his generation. The proof of his resurrection is that there are over 2 billion Christians in the world today (every Christian is a member of his body). According to Christianity, the temple of God is our body. It's where the holy spirit dwells. That's why Jesus said that he could destroy and rebuild the temple in three days. He was talking about his resurrection.
@chemerich "The proof of his resurrection is that there are over 2 billion Christians in the world today...."
You should look up the argument ad populum. It's a logical fallacy.
As for the resurrection being his "return", I remind you that the passage has a whole lot of stuff happening prior to his return--in a nutshell, the end of the world. Do you believe that happened before Jesus was raised from the dead?
"Do you believe that happened before Jesus was raised from the dead?"
Surely, the death and resurrection of Jesus marked the end of the Old Testament age and the beginning of a new moral order (New Testament). But I think there are many ends of the world. Whether we like it or not, we all have to go through the same process as Jesus: Life, Death and Resurrection.
@chemerich corection 2night and a day . a3day 3 night prophecy according to bible he failed. for as jonah was 3day and 3 nights inthe belly of the whale ect he failed his own only proof prophecy when jews said master we will have a sign of thee meaning they wanted to see a miracle but 3days similarity was only proof he was willing to give and he failed hence 2nights and a day in grave
all "prophecies" are bullshit, just writings of old men making up shit, just like all "holy" books
the only "fulfilled" prophecies are self-fulfilling propheces
i prophecise more muslims wil run to the west to escape shari'a then try and institute it in the west because they are too fucking stupid to realize shari'a is the problem
and lo and behold, i'm a prophet!
i also prophecise a war using of tiny machines to fight, and a homosexual being killed by a bigot, i'm truly a prophet
Honestly, I don't care if it was 3 days & 2 nights or 3 days & 3 nights or something else. Analogies don't need to be exact replicas, that's why they are analogies.
@chemerich According to your logic, the proof that "Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet" is that there are nearly 2 billion muslims in the world today.
@chemerich Yes, and 500 years ago the whole 100% off the population embodied the idea of a flat earth.
Being popular doesn't mean it is correct.
Jesus most probably didn't even exist at all, maybe Mark created the myth based on some symilar characters from the epoch (many mesiahs appeared during the roman occupation)
@rgtrab "..and 500 years ago the whole 100% off the population embodied the idea of a flat earth."
Except that over 2200 years ago, Eratothenes measured the circumference of the Earth.
Perhaps 1000 years ago, the Dark Ages were an era of ignorance, but 500 years ago was the dawning of the Enlightenment, and many were familiar with the 2000-year old knowledge of the spherical shape of the Earth.
Answer part 5: Time being near was from Gods perspective; The Bible says: 2 Peter 3. 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” ........8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
Answer Part 4: The signs: Matthew 24, 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place... So "this generation" is referring to the Generation that sees all these things happen. The message of the Gospel is for all Christians down through the ages. Not just for the people of the times of Jesus.
Answer Part 3: The signs: Matthew 24, 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. The generation that sees the gospel preached to the entire world will see the return of the Messiah Jesus. The generation that was with Him at the time did not see this completed.
Answer Part Two: Now we come to the verse Mark 13.30 "Truly i say to you this generation will not pass away until all of these things take place. Here Jesus is talking about the signs of the end of the age and His second coming. The generation He says will not pass away is the generation that sees the signs He gave. Not the generation that was with Him at that time. They did not see all the signs come to pass.
Answer Part 1: The bible records more than one question that was posed to Jesus. But your video only mentions 1?? Can i ask why you failed to mention all the questions. Let me quote so that others can see that there where more than one question: Matthew 243 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” We can actually see 3 questions here.
You are all thinking with the wrong mind set..... 2 Peter 3:8 says 1000 years for God is like a 1 day... so if he was talking about spiritual things... and his returning is a spiritual thing, acually the whole bible is spiritual... specially every thing Jesus saied..... we are to enter in to the third day still... remember he rose from the dead on the third day.... and he is soon to come..... get your act together and accept the Lord Jesus before is too late for you!
@felippepavilion Ok.....? But Prof's quote doesn't mention any length of time: "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place". So get your act together and start to read real books!
No... He wasn't speaking of the generation of that time... He was speaking of the generation to exist in which all these things would happen. These prophecies in Matthew, Mark and Luke were given to shed light on the Book of Revelation, in particular the first six seals: white horse = religious deception; red horse: war; black horse = famine; pale horse = disease epidemics.... Jesus wasn't wrong, you simply lack understanding.
@Thistlesifter220 "These prophecies in Matthew, Mark and Luke were given to shed light on the Book of Revelation...."
Since Jesus would have spoken the words attributed to him in the gospels at least 60 years before the Book of Revelation was written, one wonders how you could possibly reach the above-quoted conclusion.
@ProfMTH Again, it's really very simple... Jesus Christ was both the God of the Old Testament (1 Cor 10:4). And He is now God again... the Bible was not written by the will of man, but under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Thus the mind of God, i.e. Jesus Christ, is behind the writings of all the books of the Bible. Moreover, Revelation plainly states that the Lamb of God, i.e. Jesus Christ, was the only one worthy to open the seals, i.e. give understanding as to what they mean.
@Thistlesifter220 So Jesus was omnisciently anticipating a text that would be written at least 60 years later when he was talking to the small group of disciples on the Mount of Olives, is that correct?
@ProfMTH Probably; it's irrelevant either way.... I mean if He knew what was going to happen 2000 years from then - what's 60 years, right? The point I was trying to make is that the Lamb of God is the one who opens the seals so they can be understood (Rev 5:5-7); so it is a logical conclusion that what He said earlier would shed light on the prophecies, since He is the Lamb of God, i.e. the Revealer who gives revelation (Rev 1:1).
Actually, it's quite relevant to what you've said in your comments thus far. It also raises a thorny issue, i.e., if Jesus was omnicsciently anticipating a text that would be written at least 60 years after the time he was talking to a small group of his disciples on the Mount of Olives, how can it be that in the same talk Jesus says he doesn't know when he would return to Earth (see, e.g., Mark 13:32)?
@ProfMTH Okay, let me ask YOU a stupid question: does a generation reside in an hour, or even a day? I mean, if you know you're flying home for the holidays 11 months out of the year... you really don't know the exact time you'll be there, do you? Even after you get a plane ticket, there's still a chance your flight could be delayed, right? Yet you still know that during that part of the year wherein the holidays, i.e. xmas, new years, are observed, you'll be home, right? ThiMk, man!
If you really want to know what the bible teaches, then it is easy to correct that.
Actually, an atheist is easier to show the truth than all the misled "church" feed Christians that don't have a clue about the bible they are "thumping".
But your interest is only to mock what is it in. That means you can never be reached.
If you genuinely want to be shown just how wrong you are, then agree to listen and read as you are shown. Otherwise, you sound more like Saul. But he changed his tune.
The reason you are having trouble seeing the truth of the passages you are looking at is that you are running 2 prophecies on top of each other. Just exactly like the people that quote the "no one knows the hour that the son of man returns" verse. That is not at all what that verse refers to. They aren't reading the sentence and the sentence that immediately proceeded it. Exactly what you are doing. The same mistake that everyone that RARELY reads the bible does. Same 4 the 2 witness nosense.
Read Daniel 7. Hopefully, before that day you will have figured out how mistaken you are and are spared. The Kingdom and its teachings are well hidden from those that believe they are wiser than everyone else. Those with an arrogant, superior nature about themselves. Go look in a mirror and see if meekness stares back at you. If not, you are quite lost and your eyes are closed to the truth. You can scoff and laugh all you want. Your ego will cost you your life. Learn to lay it down daily 24/7.
@themanningsjdsjjj " Hopefully, before that day you will have figured out how mistaken you are and are spared. ... Your ego will cost you your life."
lol Do you have anything that actually responds to the video OR is this evangelistic threatening and ad hominem the totality of what you have to offer? If the former, let's hear it. If the latter, just say "that's all I've got" and move on. Thanks.
It is clear you do not read the bible nor believe in it. To discuss it with you would be like having a conversation in German with a man that only speaks Mandrin. If you had read it, you would be familar with the verse that says to not cast your pearls to swine. They will only turn and rend you.
You video is obviously a video made by an atheist about a topic he couldn't possbily understand.
That was my point. You will change your mind, soon. Can't wait to hear from you then
The way I understood the passages about the 1st century being the terminal generation is that THEY WERE. The idea of GOD COMING or the DAY OF THE LORD or the DAY OF JUDGMENT described in the OT was never a LITERAL coming, but a proclamation of future destruction. I don't have the scriptures present with me now, but I can post them. Also, the word 'world' is wrong in this passage. Jesus isn't talking about the "end of the world". He's speaking of the "end of the aion (or age)"
Awesome questions. I'm glad I found your videos. I'm not a teacher, just a regular person that enjoys reading as do you. Here is my intrepretation: generation: All of the people born (which I would intrepret 'born again') and living at about the same time, regarded collectively: "one of his generation's finest songwriters". So, in "theory" I would consider "generation" as being alive in the holy spirit and when the harvest comes as to gather the generation shall be gathered in the clouds.
Jesus never spoke about the end of the WORLD or even of the LAND. He only spoke about the end of the AGE. The prophecies were fulfilled in the 1st Century at the time of the destruction of the temple -- just as Jesus said in Luke 21. The so-called 2nd coming of Jesus was the judgment of Priestly Judaism through the Roman government. At that time the priestly lineage was discontinued; since then there have been no high priests. Thus, Mt 24:34 is correct.
JESUS IS GOD (Quran 3:55 he is raised to heaven body & soul, SHIT & PISS)
If Muslims only had brains to understand - other than what Mullahs have brainwashed them to believe (RETRO from birth)
I AM - means 'God', during Biblical times for Greeks & Jews
Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses,"I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.'"
Again in John 8:58 Jesus says,"before Abraham was, I Am."
MUSLIM BRAINS CANNOT DIGEST SIMPLE FACTS
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miladmeah 1 week ago
Forgive me if somewhere in the the 2,800 comments this has been addressed, but Full-Preterism (past-fulfillment) has done a great job of making sense of this.
UncleJesse1 1 week ago
@UncleJesse1 Thanks for the comment. I deal with Preterism in the follow-up to this video.
ProfMTH 1 week ago
It doesn't matter from how many fronts you disprove a believer's dogma.
They'll still believe it because that's how they were raised, their religion is comfortable, and it makes them happy to believe it.
Everything else is just deflection, justification, and dismissal.
FrankLightheart 2 weeks ago
@FrankLightheart The hell you say! Are you implying that religious people are resistant to logic and irrefutable evidence? Give 2200 examples!
Snakepliskinist 1 week ago
Your name is either written in the Book of Life or it's not. If yours is, certainly the prof's childish little attempts to lead you astray with his vids won't be an obstacle.
The difference between a Christian and an unbeliever isn't that the Christian isn't evil. It's that the Christian doesn't want to be evil.
caelachyt 2 weeks ago
@caelachyt "The difference between a Christian and an unbeliever [is]... that the Christian doesn't want to be evil."
No, the difference between a christian and a nonbeliever is that the christian believes an impossible being created everything from nothing, and the unbeliever doesn't.
Most christians believe they are good even when they claim to follow a god who, according to the bible, commands extermination of entire cultures.
Oh...but "keep the young virgin girls for yourselves".
corthew 1 day ago
Jesus did not mislead you just misunderstand
followgood 2 weeks ago
@followgood I didn't say Jesus misled anyone. I said he turned out to be wrong--assuming, arguendo, he said what Mark 13 depicts him saying.
ProfMTH 2 weeks ago
When Jesus said "this generation" He did not mean them. This generation he said will see all this happen, meaning the last generation, which obviously would be our generation. We are very close to a cashless society which is about to happen very soon. The world economy is going to completely crash soon and you will see "New World Order", no man buying or selling unless he takes the mark of the beast.
followgood 2 weeks ago
Still rejecting christ silly people.
RandomlyAnimated 3 weeks ago
@RandomlyAnimated rejecting a fantasy YES ! wishful thinking isnt a healthy trait wake up this is 2012 !
flexbrat 3 weeks ago
jesus was a cult leader who destroyed peoples life
singhaditya317 4 weeks ago
@singhaditya317 an evil cult still today which has destroyed our humanity and future progress for sure !
flexbrat 3 weeks ago
Even as a Xtian, these passages and the obvious evidence that his own followers thought he was coming back within their lifetimes had me confused and wondering. It's only by making up supposed metaphorical meanings that one can lessen the cognitive dissonance. The very fact that his own followers falsely believed in his imminent return shows that he was either lying, or, despite being the son of the omniscient Yahweh, not able to communicate clearly.Such incompetence is not worthy of worship!
apostatexp 1 month ago
@apostatexp
the big question is what was stopping him? a lie obviously. jesus was dead - his manipulations reached its end. what are they going to do to a dead man?
infernalone666 4 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
the explanation is simple, the bible is bullshit
dansorci 1 month ago
@dansorci ur correct all bullshit 100%
flexbrat 3 weeks ago
There is some very good evidence (as Joseph Atwill asserts), that the gospels are a fabrication by the Roman Emperor Vespasian and his son Titus. They sacked Jerusalem/temple in 70AD.
By putting this story of Jesus prior and predicting the overturning of all the stones of the temple, they are saying that the second coming has already happened and the messiah is Vespasian.
Josephus' works of the triumphs of Vespasian parallel stories with in the gospel narrative.
It's very compelling.
ninjamojo711 1 month ago
@ninjamojo711
Either that or, as I think, the Hebrews made up the gospels in answer to this and the prediction of the temple burning would have been easy if it already happened. the gospels and the invention of jesus and the veneration of the poor and the weak would have done the rabble-rousing paul expected
infernalone666 4 weeks ago in playlist Favorite videos
Thank you ProfMTH for pointing out the incoherence in that old book of lies and hate.
craniumface 1 month ago
@missdoogledog jesus also said, "Go forth and sell all you have and give the money to the poor." Have you done that yet? Seeing as you still have a computer to type inane comments on youtube, you probably have not. Why are you not hearkening to the words of your saviour?
craniumface 1 month ago
What a boring voice.
dirtydonki 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
lawl at @missdoogledog/caveatemp
DizzyDisco93 1 month ago
last note: the deuteronomy line is complete garbage because it is EVASIVE and ECXCUSE MAKING
in other words: didn't come true? no problem!
it's there so prohpecy-makers can avoid being called out if it doesn't come true. don't let them fool you
infernalone666 1 month ago
and why isn't the mini-apocalypse in john?
because john was speculated to be written between the years 90 and 110. the 'generation' was dying out and there was no second coming
infernalone666 1 month ago
do you know that the earliest accounts of the mark gospel were written around the year 70, when a certain jewish temple was destroyed?
if you definitely think that was a catalyst for jesus' invention, then perhaps the writer of mark was using current events to try and sell jesus a little more
infernalone666 1 month ago
@bornduke :-) Glad you enjoyed it.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@caelachyt "The World" that Jesus spoke of in Mt 24:14 was the Roman world of his own time. The proof is right under your nose: Romans 16:25,26; Col. 1:5,6 & 23. So, the gospel had gone out to the whole world when Paul wrote in approx. 60 AD.
promisesrkept 1 month ago
It's kind of like debunking family members or ex-wives, once you stop hoping that they are okay. When one looks at the deals we are offered, through scriptures, through family and dating partners, one can see their obvious madness. One is only "confused" by all the obvious contradictions in these things when one needs them to be true before examining whether or not they're true. A summary reading of Joshua, for instance, shows the book to be genocidal madness, but no one sees it.
melvinbrand 1 month ago
The funny thing with old texts that are revered is that one need only read them freshly, like a child would, without beforehand needing them to be true and rooting for them. If you stop rooting in advance for most ancient writings, but just face them as statements standing on their own merit, with no cultural power behind them, they are usually simply horrid ideas. Your work is amazing because you read these books in the way the authors obviously intended them to be read.
melvinbrand 1 month ago
If you haven't taken a look at the Full Preterist view of Bible prophecy, you should. If you have, what do you think?
promisesrkept 1 month ago
So I take it that you concede the point. In which case I suppose you'll need to change the title of the video to "ProfMTH Was Wrong & Should Be Ignored."
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp
How does it feel to believe in obvious works of fiction?
Killer0fTheSun 1 month ago
@Killer0fTheSun I believe in all sorts of fiction. This fellow here draws critical analysis of 1st century literature without going back to the original language. He made an serious mistake in his interpretation of the text. No matter, you'll just believe him and mock me.
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "So I take it that you concede the point...."
LOL! Nice try. You ignore my question to get you to clarify and then say I concede the point. Stop wasting my time.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH I've answered all your questions. You have avoided the most crucial one in regards to your claim in the video. Your assertion is that Jesus was wrong about the second coming in Mark 13 in the teeth of the textual evidence. Mark 13 is not talking about the second coming (perousia) but the destruction of the temple in Jerusalem in 70 AD. If it was talking about the second coming the word used would be perousia, not erchomenon. You're just flat out wrong but too proud to admit.
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "I've answered all your questions."
Actually, you didn't. Weird how some people who claim to have devoted their lives to "the Truth" itself just can't seem to deal honestly when it comes to discussions of their faith.
"Mark 13 is not talking about the second coming...."
So you've claimed.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH What have I not answered?
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "What have I not answered?"
See below in our initial exchange, which you abandoned in favor of starting a new one to make the bogus declaration that you took it that I had conceded your point.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH I did. I have. I have answered all your questions unless there are some left unvoiced by yourself. Don't you agree that the issue of the second coming is the primary issue of the video? How do you support your claim that it is about the perousia when the word is not in the original Greek in Mark 13? You are nit picking about non existent unanswered questions. Either tell me what I haven't answered or let's move on to the real issue.
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "You are nit picking about non existent unanswered questions. Either tell me what I haven't answered or let's move on to the real issue."
I've told you by pointing you to our original exchange in this comment thread. I'm not going to waste my time going around in circles and reposting things for you. Just scroll down a bit and you'll find the question. If you opt not to do that, then stop wasting your time and mine with bullshit protestations. Got it?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Ok. So you want me to play a guessing game. It's about the clouds, no? The clouds didn't bring judgement, right? The judgement came with the clouds? Am I close?
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "So you want me to play a guessing game."
No. Unless you have a disability of some sort that precludes your scrolling down to read where our earlier exchange was when you abandoned it. I'm not going to keep going around about this. Either you scroll down, read it, and answer OR I'm just going to ignore you. The choice is yours.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH I did. All I found were a few questions of mine that you didn't answer. You say you will not waste your time reposting my comments and yet you continue to do that very thing- just not the so called unanswered question of mine. You are truly obfuscating the issue.
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp ::sigh:: Here's what I asked that you didn't answer (you abandoned the exchange and came back several days later to say I must have conceded your point): "In our intitial comment you said, "The clouds in Mark 13 refer to judgment, which did fall on Israel in 70 AD." In a subsequent comment and again you said, "Clouds are referring to the shekinah glory cloud, not water vapor in the atmosphere." So, no, you were not clear. Which is it: judgment or "skekinah glory" ... or is it both?"
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH To which I replied, "The cloud is not judgement, it's a way of talking about God's presence." The cloud does refer to the presence of God which brought judgement- not perousia or epiphany. This is the point of your video and the point of the whole debate.
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "To which I replied, 'The cloud is not judgement, it's a way of talking about God's presence.'"
Since your initial claim was, and I quote, "The clouds in Mark 13 refer to judgment," I asked you to clarify.
As for the rest, you put yourself and your scriptures in a very odd by position by your insisting that Mark 13 is not meant to describe the second coming of Jesus.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH And I clarified that one week ago while you insisted I didn't.
It doesn't put the scriptures in an odd position. It puts your assertion that Jesus was speaking of his second coming in an odd position. It is indefensible. There is a specific word for the second coming. It's perousia. That is not the word used in Mark 13. Add to that the fact that Jesus specifically speaks about the temple being destroyed. It's there in Matthew 24 but it's 3 separate question asked there.
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp Does Matthew 16:27 refere to Jesus' second coming? If not, why not? How about Matthew 24:27, which is from the Matthean version of the same Olivet discourse that Mark 13 purports to present? How about Luke 9:26? If not, why not? How about Acts 1:11 ... does that refer to Jesus' second coming? If not, why not?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Matt 16 is talking about the same event as in Mark 13 and Matt 24, but in Matt 24 the disciples ask him 3 distinct questions: when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming (perousia), and of the end of the eon? Luke 9:26 is not about the perousia but the transfiguration. Acts 1 is about the second coming in the way it specifically relates to the ascension. By the way, clouds are also used to refer to crowds of people in the N.T. in Heb 12 and in Jude and Acts
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "Matt 16 is talking about the same event as in Mark 13 and Matt 24...."
And that same event is *not* Jesus' second coming, is that your claim?
"Luke 9:26 is not about the perousia but the transfiguration."
What is the basis for this claim? The passage says, "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory, and the glory of the Father and of the holy angels."
ProfMTH 1 month ago
(con't) " Acts 1 is about the second coming in the way it specifically relates to the ascension."
Does the passage use 'perousia'?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Right, not the perousia. Matthew 24 is different, as I said, 3 separate questions.
Read what comes immediately after Luke chapter 9. The transfiguration is a prefiguring of the second coming.
Do you have a Greek interlinear translation?
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "Read what comes immediately after Luke chapter 9. The transfiguration is a prefiguring of the second coming."
So in the Transfiguration Jesus came with his angels and judged human beings?
"Do you have a Greek interlinear translation?"
Yes. Far more importantly, you are wasting my time with plainly bogus attempts to make your Bible say what it does not say in order to protect it from being wrong. Apologetic harmonization bullshit. It's tedious and I'm weary of it.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH The irony is that I feel much the same way. The tenor of my argument from the start was that you are reading into the passages what they do not say. I still can't figure out why you think you're doing exegesis. The Greek is quite clear. It's obvious you have an anti-Christian agenda and are not interested in getting to the truth. The sad part is that you are misleading ignorant and gullible people and that you'll have that millstone tied around your neck.
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "The tenor of my argument from the start was that you are reading into the passages what they do not say."
And you've been wrong about that from the start. You feel the need to harmonize these passages, to make the Bible not be wrong. I don't have that need and, therefore, can be honest about what it actually says.
"you'll have that millstone tied around your neck"
Ah, the evangelistic threat--the last refuge of the apologist without an argument.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH You made a big deal about answering all your questions and I have. You, on the other hand, have avoided most of my key questions. Such as how you can say Mark 13:26 is about the perousia when the Greek clearly does not say that? You are the one who is twisting scripture to say what you want it to, not I. And I am in no way threatening you, I was simply referring to the words of Jesus. Take it up with him if you feel threatened. Goodbye and good luck to you. You'll need it.
missdoogledog 1 month ago
@missdoogledog You sound like a spoiled Tim Tebow of a Fundamentalist closet-case.
dallaskenn 1 month ago
@missdoogledog referring to the words of Jesus about the millstone is a threat, even if you don't mean to carry it out personally. You're just hiding behind your savior to absolve yourself from personal responsibility. Without bothering to argue about which Greek word means what, look at the basic fact that first century Christians thought Jesus would return within their lifetime. Either Jesus lied, or he is an extremely poor communicator. Either way, not worthy of worship!!!
apostatexp 1 month ago
The clouds are representing the presence of God, which in this instance brings judgement. It seems you're nit picking. The main point is that it's not referring to the perousia.
caveatemp 1 month ago
The clouds in Mark 13 refer to judgment, which did fall on Israel in 70 AD.
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "The clouds in Mark 13 refer to judgment, which did fall on Israel in 70 AD."
What is the basis for this claim?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH It's history. Jerusalem fell. The Romans destroyed it in 70 AD. Not one stone was left on another. This was the judgement Jesus was talking about. Read back into the chapter and you see him mention it specifically. Clouds are referring to the shekinah glory cloud, not water vapor in the atmosphere. He is also prefiguring his return which has not happened yet.
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp You've yet to give me any basis for your claim about the clouds. I'm well aware that the Jewish Temple was destroyed in 70 CE. Jesus talks about WAY more than just the destruction of the Temple in that chapter. And the text has him saying that the series of events will conclude with his return within the lifetime of the generation alive at the time.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH The basis is the Bible. You use the Bible to interpret the Bible. Meteorology is a modern science. You look at what clouds referred to throughout scripture, not what they mean to meteorologists. Also, it helps to look at the original Greek when interpreting. There is a big difference between the words perousia and epiphany in the Greek but they are translated into one word in most translations: coming. Also, it helps to read not just the skeptics when drawing your conclusions
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp " it helps to read not just the skeptics when drawing your conclusions"
1st, I was a believer most my life & it's never been my practice to "read just the skeptics." 2d, can you tell me where, if anywhere, in the Greek of Mk 13 the word 'parousia' or 'epiphany' is used & improperly translated into English? 3d, Acts 1:9 uses the same word as Mk 13:26 to say "a cloud received [Jesus] out of their sight" at his ascension. Does it mean Jesus was "received" by judgment? If not, why not?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Have you read any recent NT scholarship? You only mentioned the skeptics in your video. Mark 13 is clearly about historic events that happened. Daniel predicted the first desecration of the temple in 167 BC. Jesus predicted the destruction in 70 AD.
The "coming" in Mark 13 is not an epiphany or the parousia. The word used is erchomenon. Neither an epiphany nor the parousia took place and the text supports this. What then are you saying? How was Jesus wrong?
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "Have you read any recent NT scholarship?"
Yes. Lots of it.
So, it's your contention that what Jesus describes about coming in the clouds with the angels to gather his elect is *not* a description of Jesus' second coming to Earth, is that correct?
And I'd like to know about Acts 1:9 vis-a-vis Mark 13:26. You didn't respond. Mere oversight, I'm sure. Does Acts 1:9 mean Jesus was "received" by judgment? If not, why not?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH Have you read The Resurrection of the Son of God by N.T. Wright or Jesus and the Eyewitnesses by Richard Baukham? Just curious. God appears in/through a cloud in the Bible. It's called Shekhinah in the Old Testament. The cloud is not judgement, it's a way of talking about God's presence. So, no, Mark 13 is not about the parousia. If you believe it's talking about parousia, how do you support that claim through the text?
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp OK, so you've answered one of the direct questions I asked you, i.e., you say Mark 13 is not talking about Jesus' second coming. I'm still waiting for you to answer the question about Acts 1:9, which uses the same word as Mark 13:26. You've neglected to answer it twice now. Someone more skeptical than I might conclude that you're avoiding the question.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
@ProfMTH I guess I wasn't clear. The cloud in both passages refers to the shekhinah glory cloud. So why do you think Mark 13 is talking about the parousia when it does not say parousia?
caveatemp 1 month ago
@caveatemp "I guess I wasn't clear. The cloud in both passages refers to the shekhinah glory cloud."
In our intitial comment you said, "The clouds in Mark 13 refer to judgment, which did fall on Israel in 70 AD." In a subsequent comment and again you said, "Clouds are referring to the shekinah glory cloud, not water vapor in the atmosphere." So, no, you were not clear. Which is it: judgment or "skekinah glory" ... or is it both?
ProfMTH 1 month ago
Mark13:32 Jesus aknowledges that He Himself does not know the day nor hour but only the Father knows. from Catholic perspective a generation was most likely being used as a metaphor for an age/era. Being that we have been in the era since the Saviors time here with us we can safely say that He is still here with us (in the Eucharist) If you are able to believe from Catholic perspective then you understand that this generation has not yet passed.
LindaBkrWms 2 months ago
@LindaBkrWms Frankly MTH you have given long hours of study to these men in these books but I honestly believe you need to seek out the early church fathers writings to find the answers you deserve to hear. Please google Sts Ambrose, Ignatius of Antioch, Polycarp. Augustine..these men were brilliant in their understanding as I am not and I honestly do not know how else to help you but to refer you to those that might be able to help you.Also YT search Thomas Aquinas's 5 points.
LindaBkrWms 2 months ago
@LindaBkrWms I've read the early church fathers and Aquinas.
ProfMTH 1 month ago
One question:
Since the text in the Bible that describe these events was written long after the situation should have happened, like destruction of the temple and passing away of those Jesus was speaking to, why did the writers write this? It would mean that they wrote down evidence og something that revealed what Jesus said as wrong. Or the writers had a different understanding of the situation maybe. And if so, what was this different understanding?
Its very clear that the writers of the G
glemroy 2 months ago
There is new form of Christian interpretation on this passage.The preterists would say that this is all symbolic language and never meant to be taken literally.gotta check them out for s#+^s and giggles.thanks for the great videos.
eretzsus 2 months ago
The assumption that Christ is referring to the generation he was speaking to in Matt 24, upon which this video hangs, is obviously in error.
Matt 24:14 states "And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world...". Clearly, those present to hear His words could not have expected that to have been accomplished in their lifetime. So it is virtually impossible that Christ was speaking of them nor that they saw it as being said of them.
caelachyt 2 months ago
@caelachyt lolwut...you, mean, the people who had no clue how big the world actually was didn't think they could convert the whole world?
And that simply begs the question, which generation would Christ be speaking to?
Furthermore, that's a rather symbolic interpretation of the verse with no sort of justfication aside from your own post hoc speculation to warrant that conclusion.
101Pilgrim 2 months ago
@101Pilgrim Christ was clear that "these things" would not occur until the gospel was preached to the whole world. That makes the premise that He was speaking of the generation he was addressing then and there an absurd conclusion because completely spreading the message in their lifetime was virtually impossible. It is about what Christ meant, not what they understood it to mean. Your point is moot.
caelachyt 1 month ago
@caelachyt Way to not address a single thing I said. You are clearly a very skilled rhetorician rivaling that of WLC.
Which of course means, you simply repeated yourself like a moron and refused to address anything I said. For review:
*Begs the question
*Assumes unavailable knowledge
*Is clearly a spectacular post hoc conclusion to justify an obvious problem with the Bible.
Try again.
101Pilgrim 1 month ago
@101Pilgrim There is no "obvious problem with the Bible". The problem is persons ASSUMING Christ was speaking of the generation existent at that time. The prof calls it "the clear meaning" and there is no such thing in the text. It is his biased perception to support his tenuous point and not clear whatsoever. What is clear is that Christ said these things would not happen until the whole world knew and we know as fact that did not happen perhaps even yet. Moron.
caelachyt 1 month ago
@caelachyt I'm sorry, are you going to *actually* deal with the points I'm making, or are you going to keep repeating the issue I addressed before? Here, let me copy/pasta it for you:
"...you, mean, the people who had no clue how big the world actually was didn't think they could convert the whole world?
And that simply begs the question, which generation would Christ be speaking to?..."
And, of course, it's still a post-hoc conclusion you approach with the rationality of an Iguana.
101Pilgrim 1 month ago
@101Pilgrim What the people He was speaking with thought has no bearing on the question.
caelachyt 1 month ago
@caelachyt Actually, if you can't answer the question which you're begging, then it necessarily does.
101Pilgrim 1 month ago
@caelachyt cont.
"there is no such thing ([clear meaning]) in the text"
I'm glad we can admit that there is absolutely nothing clear in the Bible at all, and it is a confusing piece, of irrelevant, non-historical gibberish.
101Pilgrim 1 month ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@101Pilgrim ""there is no such thing ([clear meaning]) in the text""
"I'm glad we can admit that there is absolutely nothing clear in the Bible at all, and it is a confusing piece, of irrelevant, non-historical gibberish."
Good to see you agree the prof is wrong. Well done.
caelachyt 1 month ago
why do ppl like this only quote part of the scripture instead of the whole scripture so people wont be tabulsa rasa because they prolly haven't read it??smh
stutta3 2 months ago
@stutta3 Care to be specific?
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@ProfMTH i surely can..@ 4:09 you just say that the time is short but you don't go in depth of what Paul was really trying to tell ppl, which was because time is short you shouldn't worry about the things of the world but make sure your devoting time to do GOD's work for your own benefit for your marriage.
stutta3 2 months ago
@stutta3 "..@ 4:09 you just say that the time is short but you don't go in depth of what Paul was really trying to tell ppl, which was because time is short you shouldn't worry about the things of the world but make sure your devoting time to do GOD's work for your own benefit for your marriage."
How does that negate the central point--the one relevant to this video--that Paul, under purported divine inspiration, was talking about Jesus returning within his and his contemporaries' lifetimes?
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@ProfMTH Matthew 24:5-13...Matthew 24:23-25...Matthew 25...the whole book of Revelation
stutta3 2 months ago
@stutta3 And how exactly, if at all, do those passages refute what I've said here, hmm?
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@ProfMTH..well my first comment just tells you that if your going to state a passage from the Bible state all things that correspond to your subject or your topic.My next comment was me just stating the truth of the matter to what you are mixing up. But also in the Bible its says not to argue with a fool so I wont look foolish...and by the way I am Christian and 15yrs. old
stutta3 2 months ago
@stutta3 "by the way I am Christian and 15yrs. old"
Good! I'm not sure how, if at all, that's relevant to our exchange. But I've wondered about relevance a few times since you've started commenting. Here's what diminish the chances of your looking foolish: be prepared with actual arguments (not mere claims and platitudes and citations to Bible verses that you fail to connect to the discussion), have grounds for your claims, and don't expect your interlocutor to do all the connecting for you.
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@stutta3 people won't be a blank slate?
pete975 2 months ago
I always took it to mean that the generation in question was the generation he was describing, not the members of the generation alive at that time. Meaning that the cataclysm of the last days would not last more than one generation, whatever that means. Many have suggested that the restoration of sacrifice in Jerusalem would herald the beginning of the end. Likewise, in Matt 24 when he says, "Many will come... saying, 'I am the Christ,' and deceive many," maybe omit the inner quotation marks?
KarenLeFemme 2 months ago
@4:18
jesus was a premature ejaculator?
Morophin3 2 months ago
Wow, Deu 18:22 is a truly ponch in the face of Christianity, I'm gonna use this passage next time, Thanks!!!
TCallejasw 3 months ago
@TCallejasw You're welcome.
ProfMTH 2 months ago
@QuisletEsq This is where it gets hairy for some people. We separate the sheep from the goats. lol You and me have done many bad things in our lives. Romans 3:23
The penalty of all those things is death. Romans 6:23
Now the only one in history that has "never" been guilty or deserving of Death is the one and only Jesus Christ (Son of God).
So to put a man through such a brutal, unjustified, bloody, agonizing death is something that has never been done since or before His time.
Thetickler7 3 months ago
The thought that they would strip him naked, in front of his mother and friends. Spit in His face, call him a "liar", blasphemer. They took a reed put it in his hand, gave Him a purple robe and bowed down to mock him infront of all He came to save. They fashioned a crown of thorns and forced it on his head in which they whipped him untill he was beyond recognition. After this they forced Him to climb a mountain to his exicution with carrying a tree on his bloodied back. While He hung there...
Thetickler7 3 months ago
They took the only thing he had in his possession, His robe, and gambled it away like some prize to be displayed. After he was dead they made sure by stabbing him in the side till all his blood was spilled. All of this was done by you and me.
For everything we have done and will do that is worthy of death. Just so we can meet the one who made us, fashioned us in our mothers’ womb. That is why there is none that were like His death and none after. And I praise the Lord my Savior for that.
Thetickler7 3 months ago
@Thetickler7
You know you're talking about a fictional character, right?
You can admire your storybook heroes all you want, but don't expect anyone else to take you seriously.
mdiem 2 months ago
@mdiem I know I can't make you belive something. I can only tell you what I know. And I know Christ to be true. Thank you for your post.
Thetickler7 2 months ago
@QuisletEsq I'm sorry I haven't posted back in so long. I checked my messages and I found this one that I haven't replied to.
But on the question about Jesus comming in the clouds with great power and glory. If you read Jonh 20:19, Luke 24:36, Mark 16:14, Matthew 28:17. In every instance Jesus "appeared" to them. He never came through a door or met them on a road. Now almost every time in the bible God appeared it was in a cloud. Num 16:42, Matthew 17:5, Exdous 19:9, Exdous 16:10........
Thetickler7 3 months ago
Clearly Deuteronomy 18:22 does not apply to Jesus, because Jesus is not a prophet. He is God. And you brilliant videos about Book of Job show that God does not always say the truth. So your argument is non existent. :P
upisoft2 3 months ago
@upisoft2 That's probably the worst argument i've ever heard. For you to believe jesus is the son of god, you have to believe what he says, and to believe what he says, you have to assume that he's a prophet first. If i come to you and tell you i'm god, and show you some card tricks, you have to believe me according to your reasoning... don't you have a problem with that ?
ThinkerResearcher 2 months ago
@ThinkerResearcher Yet an other victim of Poe's law.Now on youtube! :P
upisoft2 2 months ago
@upisoft2 lol, and i totally thought you were being serious ^^! Believe me, i came accross arguments just like this from people who thought it made sense before, lol.
ThinkerResearcher 2 months ago
@ThinkerResearcher What I meant by saying that was, I wanted him to keep an open mind. Thinking that there might be a chance that Jesus wasn't wrong after all.
I bet that threw you off to the rest of the posts. And for that I am sorry. But I beg you to endulge me and read the rest and please post any questions you might have. I would love to "try" to answer any questions you might have about my posts or the bible. Thank you for posting so I could clear that up.
Thetickler7 2 months ago
so now you dont CARE about prophecies this is according to bible jesus own words and u say now doesnt matter if he got it wrong. here your denying the truth while other christians are pushing forward that jesus was put on cross on THURSDAY not good friday cos they realised there gods prophecy failed or cruciFICTION did not happen and there religion is worthless like it says in bible that u have to blive this or u have no religion
sajakram1 3 months ago
if muslims are running away from sharia then why would they want to institute sumat theyve 'escaped' from ur prophecy failed. since its illogical.
sajakram1 3 months ago
@brokensheep2 Usually, I insist on getting the last word on my channel, but here I'll let your PM do the job: "I will admit my deliver is pretty lame and idiotic, though. There's no justification and the more I thought about me trolling your channel, the more I realized it was a bad idea. I honestly am not homophobic nor do I agree with the language I was using."
Again, go fuck yourself.
ProfMTH 3 months ago
I think his resurrection was his return and it happened during his generation. The proof of his resurrection is that there are over 2 billion Christians in the world today (every Christian is a member of his body). According to Christianity, the temple of God is our body. It's where the holy spirit dwells. That's why Jesus said that he could destroy and rebuild the temple in three days. He was talking about his resurrection.
chemerich 3 months ago
@chemerich "The proof of his resurrection is that there are over 2 billion Christians in the world today...."
You should look up the argument ad populum. It's a logical fallacy.
As for the resurrection being his "return", I remind you that the passage has a whole lot of stuff happening prior to his return--in a nutshell, the end of the world. Do you believe that happened before Jesus was raised from the dead?
ProfMTH 3 months ago
@ProfMTH
"Do you believe that happened before Jesus was raised from the dead?"
Surely, the death and resurrection of Jesus marked the end of the Old Testament age and the beginning of a new moral order (New Testament). But I think there are many ends of the world. Whether we like it or not, we all have to go through the same process as Jesus: Life, Death and Resurrection.
chemerich 3 months ago
@chemerich corection 2night and a day . a3day 3 night prophecy according to bible he failed. for as jonah was 3day and 3 nights inthe belly of the whale ect he failed his own only proof prophecy when jews said master we will have a sign of thee meaning they wanted to see a miracle but 3days similarity was only proof he was willing to give and he failed hence 2nights and a day in grave
sajakram1 3 months ago
@sajakram1
all "prophecies" are bullshit, just writings of old men making up shit, just like all "holy" books
the only "fulfilled" prophecies are self-fulfilling propheces
i prophecise more muslims wil run to the west to escape shari'a then try and institute it in the west because they are too fucking stupid to realize shari'a is the problem
and lo and behold, i'm a prophet!
i also prophecise a war using of tiny machines to fight, and a homosexual being killed by a bigot, i'm truly a prophet
Mikeybetts 3 months ago
@sajakram1
Honestly, I don't care if it was 3 days & 2 nights or 3 days & 3 nights or something else. Analogies don't need to be exact replicas, that's why they are analogies.
chemerich 3 months ago
@chemerich According to your logic, the proof that "Allah is God and Muhammad is his prophet" is that there are nearly 2 billion muslims in the world today.
...next.
rgtrab 3 months ago
@rgtrab
It's not a proof of God, it just proves that there are 4 billion people who embody the spirit of Jesus or Muhammad.
chemerich 3 months ago
@chemerich Yes, and 500 years ago the whole 100% off the population embodied the idea of a flat earth.
Being popular doesn't mean it is correct.
Jesus most probably didn't even exist at all, maybe Mark created the myth based on some symilar characters from the epoch (many mesiahs appeared during the roman occupation)
rgtrab 3 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@rgtrab
"Being popular doesn't mean it is correct"
I didn't claim that
"Jesus most probably didn't even exist at all"
Go and believe your Muhammad
chemerich 3 months ago
@rgtrab "..and 500 years ago the whole 100% off the population embodied the idea of a flat earth."
Except that over 2200 years ago, Eratothenes measured the circumference of the Earth.
Perhaps 1000 years ago, the Dark Ages were an era of ignorance, but 500 years ago was the dawning of the Enlightenment, and many were familiar with the 2000-year old knowledge of the spherical shape of the Earth.
mdiem 2 months ago
@rgtrab
But otherwise, you make a good point.
mdiem 2 months ago
Answer part 5: Time being near was from Gods perspective; The Bible says: 2 Peter 3. 3 knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.” ........8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
AdstarAPAD 3 months ago
Answer Part 4: The signs: Matthew 24, 33 So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near—at the doors! 34 Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place... So "this generation" is referring to the Generation that sees all these things happen. The message of the Gospel is for all Christians down through the ages. Not just for the people of the times of Jesus.
AdstarAPAD 3 months ago
Answer Part 3: The signs: Matthew 24, 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. The generation that sees the gospel preached to the entire world will see the return of the Messiah Jesus. The generation that was with Him at the time did not see this completed.
AdstarAPAD 3 months ago
Answer Part Two: Now we come to the verse Mark 13.30 "Truly i say to you this generation will not pass away until all of these things take place. Here Jesus is talking about the signs of the end of the age and His second coming. The generation He says will not pass away is the generation that sees the signs He gave. Not the generation that was with Him at that time. They did not see all the signs come to pass.
AdstarAPAD 3 months ago
Answer Part 1: The bible records more than one question that was posed to Jesus. But your video only mentions 1?? Can i ask why you failed to mention all the questions. Let me quote so that others can see that there where more than one question: Matthew 243 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” We can actually see 3 questions here.
AdstarAPAD 3 months ago
You are all thinking with the wrong mind set..... 2 Peter 3:8 says 1000 years for God is like a 1 day... so if he was talking about spiritual things... and his returning is a spiritual thing, acually the whole bible is spiritual... specially every thing Jesus saied..... we are to enter in to the third day still... remember he rose from the dead on the third day.... and he is soon to come..... get your act together and accept the Lord Jesus before is too late for you!
God Bless You!
felippepavilion 3 months ago
@felippepavilion Ok.....? But Prof's quote doesn't mention any length of time: "this generation will not pass away until all these things take place". So get your act together and start to read real books!
colerichards6969 3 months ago
No... He wasn't speaking of the generation of that time... He was speaking of the generation to exist in which all these things would happen. These prophecies in Matthew, Mark and Luke were given to shed light on the Book of Revelation, in particular the first six seals: white horse = religious deception; red horse: war; black horse = famine; pale horse = disease epidemics.... Jesus wasn't wrong, you simply lack understanding.
Thistlesifter220 4 months ago in playlist The JESUS WAS WRONG Series
@Thistlesifter220 "These prophecies in Matthew, Mark and Luke were given to shed light on the Book of Revelation...."
Since Jesus would have spoken the words attributed to him in the gospels at least 60 years before the Book of Revelation was written, one wonders how you could possibly reach the above-quoted conclusion.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH Again, it's really very simple... Jesus Christ was both the God of the Old Testament (1 Cor 10:4). And He is now God again... the Bible was not written by the will of man, but under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Thus the mind of God, i.e. Jesus Christ, is behind the writings of all the books of the Bible. Moreover, Revelation plainly states that the Lamb of God, i.e. Jesus Christ, was the only one worthy to open the seals, i.e. give understanding as to what they mean.
Thistlesifter220 4 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 So Jesus was omnisciently anticipating a text that would be written at least 60 years later when he was talking to the small group of disciples on the Mount of Olives, is that correct?
ProfMTH 3 months ago
@ProfMTH Probably; it's irrelevant either way.... I mean if He knew what was going to happen 2000 years from then - what's 60 years, right? The point I was trying to make is that the Lamb of God is the one who opens the seals so they can be understood (Rev 5:5-7); so it is a logical conclusion that what He said earlier would shed light on the prophecies, since He is the Lamb of God, i.e. the Revealer who gives revelation (Rev 1:1).
Thistlesifter220 3 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 "Probably; it's irrelevant either way...."
Actually, it's quite relevant to what you've said in your comments thus far. It also raises a thorny issue, i.e., if Jesus was omnicsciently anticipating a text that would be written at least 60 years after the time he was talking to a small group of his disciples on the Mount of Olives, how can it be that in the same talk Jesus says he doesn't know when he would return to Earth (see, e.g., Mark 13:32)?
ProfMTH 3 months ago
@ProfMTH Okay, let me ask YOU a stupid question: does a generation reside in an hour, or even a day? I mean, if you know you're flying home for the holidays 11 months out of the year... you really don't know the exact time you'll be there, do you? Even after you get a plane ticket, there's still a chance your flight could be delayed, right? Yet you still know that during that part of the year wherein the holidays, i.e. xmas, new years, are observed, you'll be home, right? ThiMk, man!
Thistlesifter220 3 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 You're good at avoiding rather than dealing with questions you've been asked. I find that tedious. Thanks anyway.
ProfMTH 3 months ago
@ProfMTH Nice dodge.... and you're welcome.
Thistlesifter220 3 months ago
@Thistlesifter220 You totally avoid the questions I asked you and the issues I raised and then accuse *me* of dodging? Go fuck yourself.
ProfMTH 3 months ago
Why can't the "lord " speak for himself
TheDano1947 4 months ago
But there are always war and rumors of wars, no revelation here.
TheDano1947 4 months ago
G-zus was a pain freak.
TheDano1947 4 months ago
If you really want to know what the bible teaches, then it is easy to correct that.
Actually, an atheist is easier to show the truth than all the misled "church" feed Christians that don't have a clue about the bible they are "thumping".
But your interest is only to mock what is it in. That means you can never be reached.
If you genuinely want to be shown just how wrong you are, then agree to listen and read as you are shown. Otherwise, you sound more like Saul. But he changed his tune.
themanningsjdsjjj 4 months ago
The reason you are having trouble seeing the truth of the passages you are looking at is that you are running 2 prophecies on top of each other. Just exactly like the people that quote the "no one knows the hour that the son of man returns" verse. That is not at all what that verse refers to. They aren't reading the sentence and the sentence that immediately proceeded it. Exactly what you are doing. The same mistake that everyone that RARELY reads the bible does. Same 4 the 2 witness nosense.
themanningsjdsjjj 4 months ago
Read Daniel 7. Hopefully, before that day you will have figured out how mistaken you are and are spared. The Kingdom and its teachings are well hidden from those that believe they are wiser than everyone else. Those with an arrogant, superior nature about themselves. Go look in a mirror and see if meekness stares back at you. If not, you are quite lost and your eyes are closed to the truth. You can scoff and laugh all you want. Your ego will cost you your life. Learn to lay it down daily 24/7.
themanningsjdsjjj 4 months ago
@themanningsjdsjjj " Hopefully, before that day you will have figured out how mistaken you are and are spared. ... Your ego will cost you your life."
lol Do you have anything that actually responds to the video OR is this evangelistic threatening and ad hominem the totality of what you have to offer? If the former, let's hear it. If the latter, just say "that's all I've got" and move on. Thanks.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
@ProfMTH
It is clear you do not read the bible nor believe in it. To discuss it with you would be like having a conversation in German with a man that only speaks Mandrin. If you had read it, you would be familar with the verse that says to not cast your pearls to swine. They will only turn and rend you.
You video is obviously a video made by an atheist about a topic he couldn't possbily understand.
That was my point. You will change your mind, soon. Can't wait to hear from you then
themanningsjdsjjj 4 months ago
You can't be serious.
themanningsjdsjjj 4 months ago
The way I understood the passages about the 1st century being the terminal generation is that THEY WERE. The idea of GOD COMING or the DAY OF THE LORD or the DAY OF JUDGMENT described in the OT was never a LITERAL coming, but a proclamation of future destruction. I don't have the scriptures present with me now, but I can post them. Also, the word 'world' is wrong in this passage. Jesus isn't talking about the "end of the world". He's speaking of the "end of the aion (or age)"
PneuLifeTV 4 months ago
:) Yes, I can see that. Sorry for the confusion.
71jav 4 months ago
Considering a thousand years is a day to God, then our 'generation' has only been alive in the holy spirit for two days or so. Thoughts?
71jav 4 months ago
@71jav "Thoughts?"
It's a talking point that avoids rather than deals with what the passage has Jesus saying.
ProfMTH 4 months ago
Awesome questions. I'm glad I found your videos. I'm not a teacher, just a regular person that enjoys reading as do you. Here is my intrepretation: generation: All of the people born (which I would intrepret 'born again') and living at about the same time, regarded collectively: "one of his generation's finest songwriters". So, in "theory" I would consider "generation" as being alive in the holy spirit and when the harvest comes as to gather the generation shall be gathered in the clouds.
71jav 4 months ago
@71jav "generation: All of the people born (which I would intrepret 'born again') "
Why?
ProfMTH 4 months ago
I think the jews are right.. we in the west are all wrong!!!
I am a pagan and i am activly promoting pagqnism and i'll hope the jews will support. We can go back to our pagan past!!
turbofritz2 4 months ago
Jesus never spoke about the end of the WORLD or even of the LAND. He only spoke about the end of the AGE. The prophecies were fulfilled in the 1st Century at the time of the destruction of the temple -- just as Jesus said in Luke 21. The so-called 2nd coming of Jesus was the judgment of Priestly Judaism through the Roman government. At that time the priestly lineage was discontinued; since then there have been no high priests. Thus, Mt 24:34 is correct.
MaxGretinski 5 months ago