Lewis was undoubtedly writing to a christian audience. Therefore his argument was not exactly flawed as it was an argument of his time. Lewis was a talented writer anyone who denies this would have to be half retarded.
@TanzAnimer Yes, you are wrong. The Qu'ran which teaches about Jesus "not being God" is 600 years after he lived, or a few years less or more.
The Gospels are four, two of them written by close disciples and two written by one disciple of a disciple and one good reporter (Sts Matthew and John, St Marc, St Luke) and the latter two wrote before the second of the disciples, while disciples were alive to correct them. They say Christ claimed what is divine.
@hglundahl There is much evidence to suggest that the four Gospels were not written by the traditional authors, please keep in mind i am a seminarian. and i am not sure why the Qur'an would be brought up here but Scholars theorize that the Qur'an was written after Mohammed met with Aryan heretics who had been exiled from Christian society. The Aryan heresy taught much of the same beliefs that Islam does. Not meaning to start a religious flame war however just thought i would jump in lol
@Hereticshadowstorm I have quoted in full and answered in some detail that on the message "I am a Seminarian - You are Not a Christian" on my blog with url specification triv7quadriv. In short: do reread Fernseeds and Elephants. For all of your Seminary.
You have grasped C.S. Lewis's message quite well. A followup to your comment in how C.S Lewis really felt would be to read "Who moved the Stone." which is a book that provided the completed message that Jesus was much more than a teacher in C.S. Lewis's sense of Theology . To C.S Lewis Jesus was the Perfect Lamb without sin whose life would have been a lie if He had not Risen from the dead and had others who witnessesed that Resurrection die without recanting what they saw.
@opheliarises Zeitgeist furthered my belief in the christian God. You just need to think about it in the eyes of a christian. Think of it like a tree, there are a ton of branches of that tree but they all go to the same root system. Or that game where you all sit in a circle and pass on a word. That word comes out much different from beginning to end. I think of these other branches of religion as miss interpretations of the core concept. These branches need cutting, not the tree.
@opheliarises I wonder if you believe everything youre shown based off of everything that your shown, instead of finding out the knowlodge on your own..im glad you werent neo in the matrix wouldve been a short series
@imrlycl3508 I offered, no opinion, on Zeitgeist, I only asked if he had seen it. You assume, too much and insult without cause or provocation. Now be gone, before I drop a house on you..lol...Kidding.
Thank you very much for posting this video! We were just talking about this idea in a class that I'm taking about C.S. Lewis! You either believe Christ, or you don't. And I believe Jesus Christ :) I love Jesus very much! He is my Friend, and He brings me peace as I repent and ask Him for help in my trials!
Be careful about your own logic and assumptions. Your proof uses the theorem, "If he's a good teacher, then he must always tell the truth". However, I would say that good teachers only need to tell the truth most of the time, not all the time. I think Jesus did more than enough teaching about love and kindness and altruism to be a good teacher even if his claim that he's the son of God is false.
thank you for sharing this . . . this is a great answer to the argument many many hold to that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God. This inspired me to read Mere Christianity
thank you for sharing this . . . this is a great answer to the argument many many hold to that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God. This inspired me to read Mere Christianity
Well done, glad to see people actually putting positive, intelligent responses on "the Tube" even in the face of unwarranted negativity. Keep it up, it's the only we to reach what He desires.
For top philosophy of religion & sceptical analysis of Bible & religion try Robert M Price, John W. Loftus, Dan Barker, Victor J. Stenger. E.A.Wallis Budge translation of, 'The Papyrus of Ani' (1500BCE comp O.T.800-300BCE ish), Donald A. Mackenzie,' Egyptian myth and legend', James G Frazer, 'The Golden Bough', Thomas Paine, Joseph Wheless, Robert Ingersoll, C.Dennis Mckinsey, Bart Ehrman, ZomGitsCriss, Christopher Hitchens, Valerie Tarico, Ken Humphreys, Israel Finkelstein , Richard Dawkins
If you will understand who really was Jesus, you will not express so much non-sense. Freedom or speech, is freedom, not abuse of it. Definitely, can you express your self without insulting. That shows that you do not understand honor; dignity or respect. Furthemore, I do not think that you have an understanding of self respect; nor our Foundation Fathers, do you?
too many "I" and that is pure arrogance must certainly not the ways or messengers and proohets. whatever is being said to make us believe that Jesus(pbh) have said so is pure fantasy and lies. those are the ways Roman and Egyptian rulers, other worldly rulers.
@edzotube hey mate just wanted to say that you made a very good reply to the video and truly if one thing Jesus said was wrong it is all wrong and if He said one thing right it must all be right, otherwise our lives amount to nothing in the end. I would like to add this though, we should look to the Bible (He is both in OT and NT) and Historical literature for Christ...but also today. My faith is based on what God does today, the bible simply guides my understanding.
It is quite amusing to hear people discuss philosophic premises when they have no understanding of philosophy. Lewis, and his cult followers, fail(s) at a metaphysical level, and he never establishes an epistemological basis, let alone a metaphysical, unless denying epistemological standards counts as establishment. Aristotle covered his errors over a thousand years earlier; but then again, neither he nor his followers ever read Metaphysics or Prior Analytics, did they.
Of all atheism and Christianity videos I've watched today, this one had the best taste and delivery. Thanks for being real with people you don't necessarily agree with.
Jesus never said that he is God - not even one place.
I and my father are one - does not mean equality or oneness of person - compare John 17:11 where Jesus prays the apostles should be one as he and father are one.
I think that you need better understanding of the subject you are dealing with.
It's kinda like this, guys: a man who says he is God is either lying, insane, or he's telling the truth. Whether he knows how to speak well or not is beside the point. A person can be right for all the wrong reasons. Would I be JUST a good teacher if I taught people what was good and moral to do, but that if they didn't do it, they would be eaten by sea monkeys? No, I would either be a good teacher who was out of his mind, a good teacher who lied for no good reason, or sea monkey apocalypse.
Really? Have you ever read his books? Because if you have, there's seriously something wrong with you. His books, not just Chronicles of Narnia, are the best anyone could ever read. They were so inspiring that I can now see the world in a new, and better way. Even if we discover that his assumptions weren't true (highly doubt it) why can't we just appreciate his superb imagination and accomplishments?
are you trolling? Or did you not watch the video? (Or perhaps you did watch the video, in which case I really don't get your point...). I am not calling CS Lewis an Idiot! I am responding to a video in which someone else called him that. I am challenging the original video author to look deeper.
@edzotube Well, no offense, but you probably should have changed the title of your video if you didn't want so many negative comments. When people see "C.S. Lewis was an IDIOT!", they're going to jump to conclusions without watching your video, myself included. Just a thought. :/
@edzotube Homochirality is a disaster for naturalistic origins. All amino acids in proteins are 'LEFT-handed', while all sugars in DNA and RNA, and in the metabolic pathways, are 'RIGHT-handed'. Chirality!
A 50/50 mixture of left- and right-handed forms is called a racemate or racemic mixture!!. Which life can't use!! Its what we see in nature and in labs!
Life never came about by time chance natural processes! IMPOSSIBLE!!!
@achantus1 Well, that's not nice to say, this guy is clearly intelligent regardless of his inclinations toward fashion. That hat may look ridiculous to you, but may be on trend somewhere else. You actually make yourself sound very simple-minded with that statement. And you obviously didnt listen to anything he said. I find myself debating with atheists and satanists all the time and I find that if you stay on topic and dont get emotional, it's much more effective, ortherwise it becomes petty.
I really want someone to answer me here. If jesus was the messiah. What about he prophecies not fulfilled. Wasn't jesus supposed to create peace? I always wondered that, and I hope I can get an answer.
@DemonFries Two areas of caution for us all that I'll need two posts to comment: 1) Trying to understand prophecy and 2) Defining enormous concepts like 'peace'. In trying to understand prophecy it is worthwhile to consider that Jesus fulfilled words that not even the prophets themselves understood, and probably had very little idea that a man named Jesus would fulfill their words -- and that doesn't take anything away from the prophecies but establishes that God is the giver of prophecy.
@DemonFries As for Jesus bringing peace you have asked a GREAT question. The angels announced, "Peace on Earth to men on whom God's favor rests" at Jesus' birth, and then many years later Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace but a sword." The answer is BOTH. For someone who trusts and follows Jesus they will have deep peace within, even as they find conflict in their own lives and the world around them.
Very good post, man! Nowadays it seems to be really trendy in western culture to say "Yeah, you know Jesus was a great teacher, just as Buddha, but never God in human flesh. Those stories were added afterwards...bla..bla..." People don´t realize that contrary statements can´t be true at the same time, but the problem is that most people don´t believe in truth as an absolute category. They see truth as an adjustable thing and thus they have no need for God.
C.S. Lewis was one of the greatest christians of the 20th century and for anyone to call him an idiot is one who wishes to do away with his true and enduring arguments. May his works live and spread belief throughout the world for all who are in a time of doubt or all who refuse to believe.
Why can't you simply say that the Biblical Jesus said some good things but was deluded about others? Hitler was kind to animals but was a nutbar. Martin Luther King jr did great things for civil rights but was promiscuous in spite of being married and a Christian. David Icke was a sports presenter but then went on to proclaim himself the messiah.
of course you CAN say that about Jesus. But you're left with the problem that so many/all of the "good things" he said are predicated on the veracity of his claimed identity.I'd argue that if there is not the God that Jesus came to communicate, then It's not inherently "good" to put yourself last, to take the low place at the table, to give up your life and follow him. It's stupid. Unless He is who he said he was. Jesus didn't offer advice and truth, he claimed to BE the truth.
@edzotube I don't really disagree with you. The things you say are stupid are stupid to me. The solution is to take from it what is worth having. 'Treat others as you would have them treat you', is a good idea. We can keep that. (Actually this concept predates Jesus but anyway. 'Blessed are the peacemakers.' Well the idea that God is involved is silly but the veneration seems not such a bad thing. Tweak it and we can keep it. End result.. the UN bill of human rights, judicial laws etc.
@edzotube This was an exceptional video and a refreshing look at Jesus and what C.S. Lewis said about him. C.S. Lewis really was a great man. Thanks so much for the video. Keep doing what you do :)
@edzotube I am sorry but you are so wrong. Jesus does not have to be who he said he was to have been correct. It is not logically flawed to put oneself last without a greater cause and most certainly is not negated as good simply due to the lack of divinity. The mere fact that we admire those who do good is why good IS good. Humans set the standard, not the divine. I think this is a pont that cs lewis and a lot of other people do not seem to understand.
@daiitokumyouou899 ok but then ask yourself who created humans and everything else for that matter? Maybe it is you struggling to understand Lewis' points rather than vice versa.
@flibilusflum Hm did you read my comment? It has to do with morality and Lewis' arguments related to morality. I was making no reference for origins and so your comment is irrelavent and pointless.
Regardless, no one created humans. We know very well how humanity came about through ancestry. Furthermore, what is "everything else"? I would like to know what you mean there because different things have different origins and come about through different mechanisms.
@edzotube It's disputed the claims of divinity were his or others, or if the character himself was entirely fictitious, but this is moot. One need not attribute the veracity of any teaching to anything else espoused by the teacher. To do so is simply throwing out the baby with the bath water. I can accept Einstein's theory of relativity and still say the man was foolish for denying the reality of quantum mechanics. It is relativity which is genius, not Einstein himself. We all cherry pick
You must be very ignorant of C.S Lewis and his works..there's no way you could be saying this and have actually read any of C.S Lewis's theological works. He himself said, saying that Jesus was a great moralist is a copout..
If he wasn't the son of God, what he was saying was wicked. I.e ''Leave no thought for the morrow'' follow me, leave no investments, don't worry about your children etc.
He was either the son of God, or a wicked psychopath. Just as well he never existed...
i remember my first feeling of something being ilogical. It was in grade 6. I did not understand 'fractions' it didn't make any sense to me. The harder i tried to understand the concept the more frustrated i became. Although i was very young, i knew that i had to face the truth. It was a weakness in me. I didn;t get it. When i turned to a classmate for help. Tommy said "math is stupid and the teacher's an idiot"
crazy people and liars don't die for their cause and there is historical evidence outside the Bible that says a man of about 33 was crucified at the right time period
I think we can question anyone... The title is what it is because it is a video response to a video that had that as a title. That's why it says "RE: Cs lewis was an idiot"
@mutendistort Thomas Jefferson, when talking about religion to a family member, counseled to "question with boldness." That doesn't necessarily mean to doubt everything people say, but to test it to see if it is true. Now I think Lewis is a very intelligent and even inspired man, but I do not go to him for doctrine. I go to the scriptures and the living prophets for doctrine. I appreciate Lewis as another testator, though! I LOVE C.S. Lewis's ideas! (That's why I'm taking a CS Lewis class!)
@saxamaphone2009 Haha I know what you mean. I was just joking around, but I do take C. S. Lewis very seriously. Jealous of the class youre taking. love your videos.
Hey good stuff man I am very encouraged by your testimony and although you may have rude comments its what is to be expected as a christian. We are not out to condemn but to further his kingdom on this earth. I think that because of christians not sharing the love of Christ, it becomes harder for unbelievers to listen to us. Good job though and keep the faith.
I do like C.S. Lewis, but I have a problem with this.
I believe it is possible for one to be a 'great teacher' for just some of their ideas. I do not see the need to believe in all or nothing from someone. Plato said many great things, and perhaps was a 'great teacher'; I don't believe he was right about everything, though. Similarily, I think many of the things which Jesus says are true, but I do not believe he was divine. I believe only what sounds true, from anyone, regardless of identity.
@Theogenetics But Lewis said that for someone to be a good moral teacher they had to practice what they taught; so Jesus saying he was the Son of God would be a lie therefore making him a liar and Jesus said that anyone impure, including liars, will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
@Persona100Duh Yes, but I think this tends to be more of a compelling argument for christians than for an agnostic like me, that's all. Accepting that he is the Son of God initially makes the argument very important, but if you already believe him to be only a man then you take for granted that he is a liar (as all men are) or makes mistakes (as all men do) or is a little bit crazy (as all men are). But he still says many good things, and so I dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.
@Theogenetics Yes, that is very true. Before when I was an atheist/agnostic it'd been the same for me so I can definitely understand your point of view.
@bozz43 yes,i'm also here for mocking. i'm a legit troll. it's the last thing i resort to, after i see the person i'm talking to isn't capable of rational thinking.
and yes, i'm a hypocrite too and proud of it.
now that being said, wearing an armor made of insults, do you have anything rational to say?
or do you think i was only mocking you in my last reply? because if you will simply disregard whatever i say as being a lie, what's the point of talking to me in the first place?
@bozz43 it's your life, i don't really care what you think. every individual decides whether or not he cares about the truth or if he'd rather believe in fairy tales. i at least know where i am going. these prophecies are not a big issue to me. your response is typical. thanx for remindin mre never to expect christians to think.
@bozz43 oh, i am sure that when jesus said "this generation will not pass" he meant "these things will be fulfilled by 2017.
dude.... srsly! he was allegedly the f888ing son of god. do you think he could simply mean what he said, without laborious weird mathematical interpretations?
And do you wanna make a bet that if these things will not happen by 2017, you will simply say you didn't calculate it correctly, and find another future date? people always did this. where does it stop?
@bozz43 martyrdom of christians? well where, may i ask, do you see that/ you were once martyrs, in the roman days. they tried to kill you off to some extent, and then we all adopted christianity then. the world still didn't end.
and how does "this generation will not pass away until all of these things come to pass" - a prophecy by Jesus - ever came true? simply, it didn't!
@bozz43 mark of the beast without which you could not buy or sell... i wonder, in what type of world would you consider the prophecy unfulfilled... cuz if any of the current would't happen, you'd claim coins are a mark of the beast. the prophecies have zero value, because they could predict anything you want to interpret them to predict. just look at history: people ALWAYS thought the end is comming and they always will, because no matter what, you want to see it.
"i accept him asa teacher but not as god", more than being a silly excuse to stop believing and still believe, is obviously not logically coherent. I think this is however a linguistic problem, if nothing more.
What they mean to say is "i like the good stuff form jesus's teachings, but not everything he teaches."
also.the LLL thingy. we've seen L and L's before, but not only have we never seen god, we've seen nothing like it.
@Kanakaberaka Just because a person is real, it doesn't mean that legendary material can't accrue around them like barnacles on a boat. We know that George Washington existed, but I think it's safe to say that if someone claimed that he came down from a spacecraft and personally instructed the stone carvers at Mount Rushmore, that event could be safely assigned to the realm of legend.
Gee Admir, why would I ever take offense at your comment? I don't know whether you, or others who have responded to my video with insults noticed that I treated even the person I disagreed with enough to make a video, with respect and kindness. I didn't insult him or impugn his intelligence. Why? because of the transformative power of Jesus in my own life. When you love him, he makes you more like him. What motivates you?
@NINTAADMIR That is a circular statement if I've ever heard one, and one made with poor grammar as well, but I digress. Mr Edzotube clearly and pointedly explains what Lewis meant in a passage that Lewis wrote, nothing within any of Edzotube's statements is illogical, what place do you have for calling him an idiot without providing any evidence to back up your accusation? It is the mark of a small and defeated mind to resort to name calling when they have nothing to add to the conversation.
I hate that C S Lewis quote about "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord". That's presumptuous of him to make the rules that there are only three possibilities. The first time I read that many years ago, I saw the error there. He reduces it to only three choices, when there are others. How about, "Liar, Lunatic, Lord...or LEGEND"? The problem disappears if we consign the whole thing to the storybooks where it belongs. After all, nobody argues about Darth Vader as if he were a real person to be explained.
Jesus never said he was God. He said he was the son of man. "I am the way the truth and the life," doesn't mean that "I am The Creator of The Cosmos." "I and the father are one," does not mean that he knew everything that was happening in the universe simultaneously. "I an the father are one," does not mean that Jesus created himself and everything else in the universe. Jesus never stated that he was God. But after 1000 years of church repression it's understandable that you believe this.
@prismwriter Hello. You made a good point, though you've missed a piece of the jigsaw I'm afraid. Easily done though - two points (none of which I have space to explain in detail) - Look at Daniel Chapter 7 verse 13. The Son of Man was the title that Jesus used for himself. Think and pray on why He would. Secondly see Exodus 3:14 for God's name - now look a Mark 6:50... full and accurate translation is "take heart... I am". See all the "I am" sayings, especially in John. Take your time on this!
@TheDinkerson Not silly word games. Logic. It's the whole point of the conversation. You're presenting fallacious arguments in attempt to make a logical argument. You don't even seem to have a grasp of what logic is. I wasn't arguing if he existed, I was using it as example of another option. If you feel the need to cop out do so, it will be recorded that you were never able to explain the flaw in the logic.
But the bible is full of contradictions and God is full of anger and he killed many people in the old testament times etc. plaguing humanity is the bible..screwing with peoples minds.
@TheDinkerson You have only presented two options which is again a false dilemma. There's always other options, for instance the guy never existed at all and the argument is meaningless. Either way, you're presenting a fallacious argument and as such have yet to explain how my logic is wrong.
@TheDinkerson You have presented me a false dilemma which is a logical fallacy unto itself. Instead of giving me empty fallacious statements perhaps you could explain where my logic is faulty?
When jesus said that your righteousness needs to exceed the pharacees, he was talking about us NOT being prideful.... the religious teacher of the time were hypocrites.... they said one thing and did another.... they shut the kingdom of heaven in peoples faces, they walked around town and got honor for themselves, but not foor God.... the righteousnes God desires, is to love others and not to think that you are better than others...
Lewis' great argument aptly applies to much of the Writers/Scriptures: some of the antics of the prophets - Ezekial walking around naked etc. - the very assertion that one speaks 'the words of the Lord' is tantamount to madness or precisely what is alledged - nothing in between! (I have always found the statement: "Just a prophet" to be innane and senseless: if one is JUST A PROPHET: we either believe and take serious or we do not!)
Quite right, thanks very much. It sounds like the person who put up the original video (which you have responded to) has not really read the book thoroughly. "C.S. Lewis was an idiot" sounds also, frankly, like a scared reaction....
Roman Emperor Julian, circa 362 CE, wrote: . It is, I think, expedient to set forth to all mankind the reasons by which I was convinced that the fabrication of the Galilaeans (Christians) is a fiction of men composed by wickedness. . Though it has in it nothing divine, by making full use of that part of the soul which loves fable and is childish and foolish, it has induced men to believe that the monstrous tale is truth.
I'm not sure what rules of logic are being broken here. "I accept him as a teacher but not as God" is a perfectly logical point. One doesn't have to accept everything said teacher says to find them a good teacher. One could accept Obama as their president but they don't have to agree with everything he says. "If you accept Jesus as a teacher then you must accept him as God" is a logical fallacy.
Often, people are just trying to figure out what to "do" with Jesus. One easy position is to say "I'll concede he was a good teacher". But again, it has to come back to WHAT he taught. His teaching is really dependent on who he claimed to be and can't be divorced from his identity. (His teaching derived from his identity). "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will not have eternal life" "Anyone who does not believe in me stands condemned" "Before Abraham was, I am"
@edzotube But if you're are to use true logic then it still is perfectly acceptable. One doesn't have to agree with every aspect of said teachings to still find someone a good teacher. There is no rule of logic being broken.
I think it's important for you to quote him correctly. He said "a good or great teacher", "not just a teacher." He cannot be an objectively great teacher if what he taught was untrue. I would not want my child being under the guidance of a teacher who didn't teach what was true. With such great claims Jesus made, you'd have to settle with one of the categories that Lewis gives.
@DanPrinMan The qualifier good or great doesn't change anything. Even more so when it comes to logic. There is no written rule that a man being declared a "great teacher" has to speak 100% truth. None. Even the "truth" is subjective. A lot of people might say Gandhi was a great teacher but not all those people would necessarily agree that every word he spoke was true. Great doesn't equal 100% truth. And simply saying that doesn't make it so.
@SupremeAmerican It's impossible for me to get in the head of Jesus Christ but If I had to take a guess I'd say no, Jesus wasn't lying, he believed he was the son of God.
@edzotube I wish I could have you around when I am arguing with an atheist. You are very intelligent, you know what are you are talking about, but most importantly, you are interested. God bless you.
I didn't watch this video. I may not ever. I don't need to. Anyone who says that C.S. Lewis is and "idiot" just shot him self in the foot, along with his arguments before the race starts.
WIth due respect, anyone who comments on a video's content before watching the video is probably not a vital participant in the conversation. If you would take the 5 minutes required to actually listen to what I said, you might change your mind. Something that comes to mind is when Jesus said, blessed is the one who is not offended by me. If you stop at the surface and take offense, you never get to the good stuff. True of Jesus, and dare I say, true of this video. Blessings to you
Lewis did not know what he was talking about when it came to the christian life. he said of doubting thoughts "SHOVE THEM BACK", he said that the way to grow in christ: "LET'S PRETEND".
he advocated will of the flesh and hypocrisy, both in his book Mere Christainity. His apologetic may be useful but his practical counsel is highly dangerous
to name just one thing, an explaination of the full gospel would mean to make clear why xtians are to kill those who want god's followers to serve other gods. if i were to take your faith seriously i would stay in a plank shack and live to serve the poor until i died, exactly as christ said. very few in your faith take god's word seriously - most do not even know the scriptures - they are petrified of the afterlife with it's burning hell and are merely trying to please a fearsome god.
Jesus took our punishment out of love for us and He rose again so that we may rise with Him on the last day. People do not like to answer the question I asked it to an atheist and the man said that Jesus did not exist so the question can not be answered. But I asked if Jesus did not exist then where and how did the Christian faith come about and spread through out the centuries?
1. There is no point in the Bible were Jesus explicitly states he is God. -- This in fact is a critique used against Lewis by theologians who felt that Lewis had a very weak understanding of the bible.
2. Most of the bits were Jesus strongly implies that he is god are in the Book of John. Most modern textual critics consider John to be written 60-70 years after the Jesus and to be highly unreliable.
Finally you must remember that this was superstitious age, the entire period was a bit mad.
Thanks for the reasoned and non-trolling response. Here are a couple of points in response.
1. Christian thjeologians would likely NOT have challenged Lewis on the point, since all of Christian theology hinges on Jesus' divinity, notwithstanding the lack of any specific quote wherein Jesus says "hello, I am God". An informed reading of the scripture implicitly communicates the divinity claim. (cont)
@edzotube 1. They do not question Jesus' divinity, simply that Jesus claimed he was divine. Examples include New Testament scholar Bishop N T Wright who considered Lewis argument to be historically incorrect. Popular theologian William Lane Craig admitted that at least part of the trilemma are "unsound". Bishop John Robinson admits its doubtful that Jesus ever claimed godhood.
"Before Abraham was, I am" "If you have seen me you have seen the father", His affirmative claims in response to the temple leaders and pilate, his description of his role on "Judgement day" etc. Etc, Not to mention all of the places where others emphatically comment on his divinity. (Peter, Paul)
@edzotube But your argument is that Jesus claimed to be god not that Paul or Peter claimed he was. As for the quote it is vague like much of the bible and could be interpreted many different ways. It is only through years of Church enforced doctrine that it has come to mean what does.
2. John was a later Gospel true, and certainly more theological expository in nature than the 3 synoptic gospels, but lateness and depth do not necessitate unreliability. This is a first hand account.
@edzotube 2. There is nothing to indicate it is a first hand account. It contains numerous discrepancies with the other Synoptic gospels. Parts of seem specifically designed to make up history to fulfill prophecy. Truthfully if you want my take on the trilemma. Who ever wrote John and the numerous writers that wrote what we call Paul were prob at least somewhat disingenuous. The rest once again came from a credulous superstitious time.
@edzotube 3.Lets see ... we have the Zealots (a radical Jewish sect) running about. The Sicarii suicide cult at Masada. Loony "prophets" sitting on columns. And in the non Jewish realm we have Emperors who think they are gods and Mystery cults aplenty. Not to mention they were still stoning people for witch craft. Nope not superstitious at all. Dude I have a BA in history, I am familiar with this time period.
Lewis encountered something that millions before and since have, and it changed his entire life: The experience of a risen Lord, which, despite the difficulties it presents, once had, does not go away. he spent much of his life trying to communicate the ineffable for the benefit of others. This is a mission I deeply admire him for and one which he undertook with acuity and executed with great effect.
@edzotube Essential problem ... you are hedging now ... your point was to demonstrate the trilemma sound. You have not done this so you are trying to distract with flowery but meaningless language.
@edzotube Essential problem.. if nathanielslby discussed his beliefs in a video there would be no conversation. We would probably say he is crazy, pray, and move on. If he attacked his own belief system with the same ferocity as yours, he would find it to be unstable. If he can't attack his belief in the same way, well, he has no faith in that belief system. Way to defend your FAITH. Rom. 1:21-22
@comeeeeoo I have a few videos ... you are perfectly free to watch them and post on them ... if you have a specific subject you would like me to address let me know.
@sthcrox at the risk of creating a feedback loop, I will ask: what do you mean what do I mean? Are you saying you had trouble understanding what I said? Or are you suggesting I didn't actually say anything? Or are you more just trying to figure out where I "Stand" .
Great video on CS Lewis! His 'Lord, Liar, or Lunatic' argument always continues to delight me, as well as blow me away. Lewis;s logic is at once simple, yet profound; deadly serious, yet humorous. Whenever I think of this jewel of an argument for Jesus Christ as being exactly Who He Says He Is...I want to shout, "why didnt I think of that??!!"
Of course, I never would have nor ever even gotton close to thinking of that. There is only one CS Lewis!
To logically explain Jesus or God is certainly unattainable. This basically is your faith at work. To deny either or would be to deny your very existence. Your also missing what bonds Jesus and his Father, The Holy Spirit. You can't hang on a quote here or there to explain the full gospel. Until you come to a full understanding you will remain blind. Sorry bro, this is the Truth. Excuse me if I sounded preachy. When you've experienced God as I have you will know How God the
Thanks for joining in. I agree that at a certain point a step of faith is ultimately required to experience Jesus, but I also follow Peter's advice to stand ready to give a reason for the hope we have to anyone who asks.
Look the New Testament books are some of the best attested to historical documents of the classical period. This whole idea that because someone uses the Bible to talk about Christ as a historical person then they are being circular is a red herring.
I got another "L" word that fits....LEGEND.
csaver 3 weeks ago
Lewis was undoubtedly writing to a christian audience. Therefore his argument was not exactly flawed as it was an argument of his time. Lewis was a talented writer anyone who denies this would have to be half retarded.
Hereticshadowstorm 3 weeks ago
What is wrong with you??
abcdefghijkl956 3 weeks ago
I argee of first small part of vid and Prophet Jesus (PBOH) existing but disagree about call God as Jesus
So then what muslims believe in Jeus (PBOH) as Prophet only is wrong too?
Because i follow many of teaching of all prophet's especially Jesus (PBOH)??
What was C.S. Lewis view to islam. (Shia's are not really muslim too that out) Shia's contradict every principle of islam.
I believe Jesus (PBOH) is prophet not god. Im i wrong to believe this?
TanzAnimer 1 month ago
@TanzAnimer Yes, you are wrong. The Qu'ran which teaches about Jesus "not being God" is 600 years after he lived, or a few years less or more.
The Gospels are four, two of them written by close disciples and two written by one disciple of a disciple and one good reporter (Sts Matthew and John, St Marc, St Luke) and the latter two wrote before the second of the disciples, while disciples were alive to correct them. They say Christ claimed what is divine.
hglundahl 4 weeks ago
@hglundahl There is much evidence to suggest that the four Gospels were not written by the traditional authors, please keep in mind i am a seminarian. and i am not sure why the Qur'an would be brought up here but Scholars theorize that the Qur'an was written after Mohammed met with Aryan heretics who had been exiled from Christian society. The Aryan heresy taught much of the same beliefs that Islam does. Not meaning to start a religious flame war however just thought i would jump in lol
Hereticshadowstorm 3 weeks ago
@Hereticshadowstorm I have quoted in full and answered in some detail that on the message "I am a Seminarian - You are Not a Christian" on my blog with url specification triv7quadriv. In short: do reread Fernseeds and Elephants. For all of your Seminary.
hglundahl 3 weeks ago
You have grasped C.S. Lewis's message quite well. A followup to your comment in how C.S Lewis really felt would be to read "Who moved the Stone." which is a book that provided the completed message that Jesus was much more than a teacher in C.S. Lewis's sense of Theology . To C.S Lewis Jesus was the Perfect Lamb without sin whose life would have been a lie if He had not Risen from the dead and had others who witnessesed that Resurrection die without recanting what they saw.
DonnieTHORMacLEOD 1 month ago
Well said.
cjpreach 2 months ago
I wonder if you've seen, the Zeitgeist films, on the origins of religion.
opheliarises 2 months ago
@opheliarises Zeitgeist furthered my belief in the christian God. You just need to think about it in the eyes of a christian. Think of it like a tree, there are a ton of branches of that tree but they all go to the same root system. Or that game where you all sit in a circle and pass on a word. That word comes out much different from beginning to end. I think of these other branches of religion as miss interpretations of the core concept. These branches need cutting, not the tree.
TheYuriah 2 months ago
@opheliarises I wonder if you believe everything youre shown based off of everything that your shown, instead of finding out the knowlodge on your own..im glad you werent neo in the matrix wouldve been a short series
imrlycl3508 1 month ago
@imrlycl3508 I offered, no opinion, on Zeitgeist, I only asked if he had seen it. You assume, too much and insult without cause or provocation. Now be gone, before I drop a house on you..lol...Kidding.
opheliarises 1 month ago
Thank you very much for posting this video! We were just talking about this idea in a class that I'm taking about C.S. Lewis! You either believe Christ, or you don't. And I believe Jesus Christ :) I love Jesus very much! He is my Friend, and He brings me peace as I repent and ask Him for help in my trials!
saxamaphone2009 2 months ago
Other than that, GREAT video! :D
heartrocketblast 2 months ago
Actually, the new testament gospels are some of the best, most accurate evidence we have for Jesus or for anyone in his time period.
heartrocketblast 2 months ago
Be careful about your own logic and assumptions. Your proof uses the theorem, "If he's a good teacher, then he must always tell the truth". However, I would say that good teachers only need to tell the truth most of the time, not all the time. I think Jesus did more than enough teaching about love and kindness and altruism to be a good teacher even if his claim that he's the son of God is false.
chompdoggie 2 months ago
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thank you for sharing this . . . this is a great answer to the argument many many hold to that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God. This inspired me to read Mere Christianity
bethanycain88 3 months ago
thank you for sharing this . . . this is a great answer to the argument many many hold to that Jesus was a good teacher, but not God. This inspired me to read Mere Christianity
bethanycain88 3 months ago
this guy looks stupid, he looks like a squirrel. lewis would fuck this guy up if he was still alive
british123able 3 months ago
Well said, the the great moral teacher concept (nonsense) is central to Lewis's argument and is infallible.
pablocoon 3 months ago
Well done, glad to see people actually putting positive, intelligent responses on "the Tube" even in the face of unwarranted negativity. Keep it up, it's the only we to reach what He desires.
JnThreesixteen1 3 months ago
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For top philosophy of religion & sceptical analysis of Bible & religion try Robert M Price, John W. Loftus, Dan Barker, Victor J. Stenger. E.A.Wallis Budge translation of, 'The Papyrus of Ani' (1500BCE comp O.T.800-300BCE ish), Donald A. Mackenzie,' Egyptian myth and legend', James G Frazer, 'The Golden Bough', Thomas Paine, Joseph Wheless, Robert Ingersoll, C.Dennis Mckinsey, Bart Ehrman, ZomGitsCriss, Christopher Hitchens, Valerie Tarico, Ken Humphreys, Israel Finkelstein , Richard Dawkins
zytigon 4 months ago
trollers are funny! Atheist are hilarious and God is REAL, fin
sisco2k2 5 months ago
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@sisco2k2
Why do you insist that your opinions are the only correct ones?
odinata 4 months ago
If you will understand who really was Jesus, you will not express so much non-sense. Freedom or speech, is freedom, not abuse of it. Definitely, can you express your self without insulting. That shows that you do not understand honor; dignity or respect. Furthemore, I do not think that you have an understanding of self respect; nor our Foundation Fathers, do you?
pworship0911 6 months ago
too many "I" and that is pure arrogance must certainly not the ways or messengers and proohets. whatever is being said to make us believe that Jesus(pbh) have said so is pure fantasy and lies. those are the ways Roman and Egyptian rulers, other worldly rulers.
malinehydara 6 months ago
@edzotube hey mate just wanted to say that you made a very good reply to the video and truly if one thing Jesus said was wrong it is all wrong and if He said one thing right it must all be right, otherwise our lives amount to nothing in the end. I would like to add this though, we should look to the Bible (He is both in OT and NT) and Historical literature for Christ...but also today. My faith is based on what God does today, the bible simply guides my understanding.
MrTomDHG 6 months ago
@edzotube so just a bit of encouragement that we have nothing to prove but Christ to follow.
MrTomDHG 6 months ago
Nice video man!
to the guy below. You haven't posted ant Lewis mistakes you are stating your opinions as facts prove them.
heroicmasterchief 7 months ago
It is quite amusing to hear people discuss philosophic premises when they have no understanding of philosophy. Lewis, and his cult followers, fail(s) at a metaphysical level, and he never establishes an epistemological basis, let alone a metaphysical, unless denying epistemological standards counts as establishment. Aristotle covered his errors over a thousand years earlier; but then again, neither he nor his followers ever read Metaphysics or Prior Analytics, did they.
Thuggishsplicer1 7 months ago
Tell me if you agree ---
After listening to this blog I am left with this thought:
It is not the obvious things in life that will elevate ones soul, or spirit but the things
which we do not readily see, comprehend or trust --- if we could be convinced
of all things through our perfect vision, or with perscribed glasses then we would
only see what that which is imposed upon us, not what inspires men and women
to become more like the Savior.
if you agree click my thumbs up : )
andy18401 7 months ago
Of all atheism and Christianity videos I've watched today, this one had the best taste and delivery. Thanks for being real with people you don't necessarily agree with.
stickbugg 7 months ago
Jesus never said that he is God - not even one place.
I and my father are one - does not mean equality or oneness of person - compare John 17:11 where Jesus prays the apostles should be one as he and father are one.
I think that you need better understanding of the subject you are dealing with.
TomsanKattackal 7 months ago
It's kinda like this, guys: a man who says he is God is either lying, insane, or he's telling the truth. Whether he knows how to speak well or not is beside the point. A person can be right for all the wrong reasons. Would I be JUST a good teacher if I taught people what was good and moral to do, but that if they didn't do it, they would be eaten by sea monkeys? No, I would either be a good teacher who was out of his mind, a good teacher who lied for no good reason, or sea monkey apocalypse.
GenghisKhan44 8 months ago
Really? Have you ever read his books? Because if you have, there's seriously something wrong with you. His books, not just Chronicles of Narnia, are the best anyone could ever read. They were so inspiring that I can now see the world in a new, and better way. Even if we discover that his assumptions weren't true (highly doubt it) why can't we just appreciate his superb imagination and accomplishments?
bridgetyellow 9 months ago
E aí bestóide, já capinou um pátio? Pois vá.
andersonlight 9 months ago
My mistake. No, I didn't see the video. Sorry! Just jumped at the proclamation : "C.S.Lewis was an idiot."
achantus1 9 months ago
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So C.S.Lewis was an idiot? And you are not? I'm sure you are a highly educated man. Or maybe you have put your cap on to look smart? Redneck!
achantus1 9 months ago
@achantus1
are you trolling? Or did you not watch the video? (Or perhaps you did watch the video, in which case I really don't get your point...). I am not calling CS Lewis an Idiot! I am responding to a video in which someone else called him that. I am challenging the original video author to look deeper.
edzotube 9 months ago 15
@edzotube Well, no offense, but you probably should have changed the title of your video if you didn't want so many negative comments. When people see "C.S. Lewis was an IDIOT!", they're going to jump to conclusions without watching your video, myself included. Just a thought. :/
bridgetyellow 9 months ago
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@edzotube Homochirality is a disaster for naturalistic origins. All amino acids in proteins are 'LEFT-handed', while all sugars in DNA and RNA, and in the metabolic pathways, are 'RIGHT-handed'. Chirality!
A 50/50 mixture of left- and right-handed forms is called a racemate or racemic mixture!!. Which life can't use!! Its what we see in nature and in labs!
Life never came about by time chance natural processes! IMPOSSIBLE!!!
5tonyvvvv 1 month ago
@achantus1 Well, that's not nice to say, this guy is clearly intelligent regardless of his inclinations toward fashion. That hat may look ridiculous to you, but may be on trend somewhere else. You actually make yourself sound very simple-minded with that statement. And you obviously didnt listen to anything he said. I find myself debating with atheists and satanists all the time and I find that if you stay on topic and dont get emotional, it's much more effective, ortherwise it becomes petty.
KyrstenDior 8 months ago
@achantus1 Did you watch the video?
LoveOneTruth 7 months ago
@achantus1 idiot
tercelkisor 2 months ago
edzotube is an idiot¡¡
bambinoporco1 9 months ago
I really want someone to answer me here. If jesus was the messiah. What about he prophecies not fulfilled. Wasn't jesus supposed to create peace? I always wondered that, and I hope I can get an answer.
DemonFries 10 months ago
@DemonFries Two areas of caution for us all that I'll need two posts to comment: 1) Trying to understand prophecy and 2) Defining enormous concepts like 'peace'. In trying to understand prophecy it is worthwhile to consider that Jesus fulfilled words that not even the prophets themselves understood, and probably had very little idea that a man named Jesus would fulfill their words -- and that doesn't take anything away from the prophecies but establishes that God is the giver of prophecy.
scott97ish 10 months ago
@DemonFries As for Jesus bringing peace you have asked a GREAT question. The angels announced, "Peace on Earth to men on whom God's favor rests" at Jesus' birth, and then many years later Jesus said, "Do not think that I came to bring peace but a sword." The answer is BOTH. For someone who trusts and follows Jesus they will have deep peace within, even as they find conflict in their own lives and the world around them.
scott97ish 10 months ago
Very good post, man! Nowadays it seems to be really trendy in western culture to say "Yeah, you know Jesus was a great teacher, just as Buddha, but never God in human flesh. Those stories were added afterwards...bla..bla..." People don´t realize that contrary statements can´t be true at the same time, but the problem is that most people don´t believe in truth as an absolute category. They see truth as an adjustable thing and thus they have no need for God.
metaldario 11 months ago
C.S. Lewis was one of the greatest christians of the 20th century and for anyone to call him an idiot is one who wishes to do away with his true and enduring arguments. May his works live and spread belief throughout the world for all who are in a time of doubt or all who refuse to believe.
MagicMartin5 1 year ago 8
Why can't you simply say that the Biblical Jesus said some good things but was deluded about others? Hitler was kind to animals but was a nutbar. Martin Luther King jr did great things for civil rights but was promiscuous in spite of being married and a Christian. David Icke was a sports presenter but then went on to proclaim himself the messiah.
Sarusource 1 year ago
@Sarusource
of course you CAN say that about Jesus. But you're left with the problem that so many/all of the "good things" he said are predicated on the veracity of his claimed identity.I'd argue that if there is not the God that Jesus came to communicate, then It's not inherently "good" to put yourself last, to take the low place at the table, to give up your life and follow him. It's stupid. Unless He is who he said he was. Jesus didn't offer advice and truth, he claimed to BE the truth.
edzotube 1 year ago
@edzotube I don't really disagree with you. The things you say are stupid are stupid to me. The solution is to take from it what is worth having. 'Treat others as you would have them treat you', is a good idea. We can keep that. (Actually this concept predates Jesus but anyway. 'Blessed are the peacemakers.' Well the idea that God is involved is silly but the veneration seems not such a bad thing. Tweak it and we can keep it. End result.. the UN bill of human rights, judicial laws etc.
Sarusource 1 year ago
@edzotube This was an exceptional video and a refreshing look at Jesus and what C.S. Lewis said about him. C.S. Lewis really was a great man. Thanks so much for the video. Keep doing what you do :)
HeWantsUsBackNow 1 year ago
@edzotube
Well, following Jesus wouldn't be one of the "good" things, more like one of the deluded ;)
I'd say the deluded ones are the ones dependent on his veracity, not the other way around.
twooffour 9 months ago
@edzotube I am sorry but you are so wrong. Jesus does not have to be who he said he was to have been correct. It is not logically flawed to put oneself last without a greater cause and most certainly is not negated as good simply due to the lack of divinity. The mere fact that we admire those who do good is why good IS good. Humans set the standard, not the divine. I think this is a pont that cs lewis and a lot of other people do not seem to understand.
daiitokumyouou899 8 months ago
@daiitokumyouou899 ok but then ask yourself who created humans and everything else for that matter? Maybe it is you struggling to understand Lewis' points rather than vice versa.
flibilusflum 6 months ago
@flibilusflum Hm did you read my comment? It has to do with morality and Lewis' arguments related to morality. I was making no reference for origins and so your comment is irrelavent and pointless.
Regardless, no one created humans. We know very well how humanity came about through ancestry. Furthermore, what is "everything else"? I would like to know what you mean there because different things have different origins and come about through different mechanisms.
daiitokumyouou899 6 months ago
@edzotube It's disputed the claims of divinity were his or others, or if the character himself was entirely fictitious, but this is moot. One need not attribute the veracity of any teaching to anything else espoused by the teacher. To do so is simply throwing out the baby with the bath water. I can accept Einstein's theory of relativity and still say the man was foolish for denying the reality of quantum mechanics. It is relativity which is genius, not Einstein himself. We all cherry pick
travlr3000x 7 months ago
@Sarusource
You must be very ignorant of C.S Lewis and his works..there's no way you could be saying this and have actually read any of C.S Lewis's theological works. He himself said, saying that Jesus was a great moralist is a copout..
If he wasn't the son of God, what he was saying was wicked. I.e ''Leave no thought for the morrow'' follow me, leave no investments, don't worry about your children etc.
He was either the son of God, or a wicked psychopath. Just as well he never existed...
BelfastAtheist 10 months ago
@Sarusource He can't say that the Biblical Jesus said some good things but was deluded about others because .... it's not true. Pretty simple.
4streamsguy 9 months ago
@Sarusource He can't say that the Biblical Jesus said some good things but was deluded about others because .... it's not true. Pretty simple.
4streamsguy 9 months ago
@4streamsguy Yes, there is that elephant in the chatroom.
Sarusource 9 months ago
good video and great point.
wforster1221 1 year ago
i remember my first feeling of something being ilogical. It was in grade 6. I did not understand 'fractions' it didn't make any sense to me. The harder i tried to understand the concept the more frustrated i became. Although i was very young, i knew that i had to face the truth. It was a weakness in me. I didn;t get it. When i turned to a classmate for help. Tommy said "math is stupid and the teacher's an idiot"
bemg1 1 year ago
crazy people and liars don't die for their cause and there is historical evidence outside the Bible that says a man of about 33 was crucified at the right time period
Heavymetal195 1 year ago
NO ONE SHOULD EVER QUESTION C. S. LEWIS,you have a good point but dont do something stupid, change the title of this video ( REVOLTING title !)
mutendistort 1 year ago
@mutendistort
I think we can question anyone... The title is what it is because it is a video response to a video that had that as a title. That's why it says "RE: Cs lewis was an idiot"
thanks for the note though.
edzotube 1 year ago 9
@edzotube can we question god? / lol -christians- / everyone else kinda does question him....
but anyway im just a really big c.s. lewis fan.
mutendistort 1 year ago
@mutendistort Thomas Jefferson, when talking about religion to a family member, counseled to "question with boldness." That doesn't necessarily mean to doubt everything people say, but to test it to see if it is true. Now I think Lewis is a very intelligent and even inspired man, but I do not go to him for doctrine. I go to the scriptures and the living prophets for doctrine. I appreciate Lewis as another testator, though! I LOVE C.S. Lewis's ideas! (That's why I'm taking a CS Lewis class!)
saxamaphone2009 2 months ago
@saxamaphone2009 Haha I know what you mean. I was just joking around, but I do take C. S. Lewis very seriously. Jealous of the class youre taking. love your videos.
mutendistort 2 months ago
woaw...u explained pretty well...and look up to your humbleness...CHrist has changed you...:)
juveche 1 year ago
Hey good stuff man I am very encouraged by your testimony and although you may have rude comments its what is to be expected as a christian. We are not out to condemn but to further his kingdom on this earth. I think that because of christians not sharing the love of Christ, it becomes harder for unbelievers to listen to us. Good job though and keep the faith.
Mkleisters1225 1 year ago
C.S. Lewis was a well spoken idiot to be sure.
GoSuMonSteR 1 year ago
In this video, as far as I can see, there is only one idiot, and is not Mr. Lewis
fabiosergioj 1 year ago
I do like C.S. Lewis, but I have a problem with this.
I believe it is possible for one to be a 'great teacher' for just some of their ideas. I do not see the need to believe in all or nothing from someone. Plato said many great things, and perhaps was a 'great teacher'; I don't believe he was right about everything, though. Similarily, I think many of the things which Jesus says are true, but I do not believe he was divine. I believe only what sounds true, from anyone, regardless of identity.
Theogenetics 1 year ago
@Theogenetics But Lewis said that for someone to be a good moral teacher they had to practice what they taught; so Jesus saying he was the Son of God would be a lie therefore making him a liar and Jesus said that anyone impure, including liars, will not inherit the kingdom of heaven.
Persona100Duh 1 year ago
@Persona100Duh Yes, but I think this tends to be more of a compelling argument for christians than for an agnostic like me, that's all. Accepting that he is the Son of God initially makes the argument very important, but if you already believe him to be only a man then you take for granted that he is a liar (as all men are) or makes mistakes (as all men do) or is a little bit crazy (as all men are). But he still says many good things, and so I dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Theogenetics 1 year ago
@Theogenetics Yes, that is very true. Before when I was an atheist/agnostic it'd been the same for me so I can definitely understand your point of view.
Persona100Duh 1 year ago
well said
Gorbyclrap 1 year ago
@bozz43 yes,i'm also here for mocking. i'm a legit troll. it's the last thing i resort to, after i see the person i'm talking to isn't capable of rational thinking.
and yes, i'm a hypocrite too and proud of it.
now that being said, wearing an armor made of insults, do you have anything rational to say?
or do you think i was only mocking you in my last reply? because if you will simply disregard whatever i say as being a lie, what's the point of talking to me in the first place?
De4sher 1 year ago
I have found nothing but circular and flawed logic whenever I encounter a atheistisc evolutionists.
MrOphachew 1 year ago
@bozz43 it's your life, i don't really care what you think. every individual decides whether or not he cares about the truth or if he'd rather believe in fairy tales. i at least know where i am going. these prophecies are not a big issue to me. your response is typical. thanx for remindin mre never to expect christians to think.
De4sher 1 year ago
@bozz43 oh, i am sure that when jesus said "this generation will not pass" he meant "these things will be fulfilled by 2017.
dude.... srsly! he was allegedly the f888ing son of god. do you think he could simply mean what he said, without laborious weird mathematical interpretations?
And do you wanna make a bet that if these things will not happen by 2017, you will simply say you didn't calculate it correctly, and find another future date? people always did this. where does it stop?
De4sher 1 year ago
@bozz43 martyrdom of christians? well where, may i ask, do you see that/ you were once martyrs, in the roman days. they tried to kill you off to some extent, and then we all adopted christianity then. the world still didn't end.
and how does "this generation will not pass away until all of these things come to pass" - a prophecy by Jesus - ever came true? simply, it didn't!
De4sher 1 year ago
@bozz43 mark of the beast without which you could not buy or sell... i wonder, in what type of world would you consider the prophecy unfulfilled... cuz if any of the current would't happen, you'd claim coins are a mark of the beast. the prophecies have zero value, because they could predict anything you want to interpret them to predict. just look at history: people ALWAYS thought the end is comming and they always will, because no matter what, you want to see it.
De4sher 1 year ago
@bozz43 where have you seen someone who is, together with his father, the same person?
it's not only that i don't agree, it makes no sense.
how do you see it?
i mean i'm not here to disagree, i'm here to understand.
De4sher 1 year ago
"i accept him asa teacher but not as god", more than being a silly excuse to stop believing and still believe, is obviously not logically coherent. I think this is however a linguistic problem, if nothing more.
What they mean to say is "i like the good stuff form jesus's teachings, but not everything he teaches."
also.the LLL thingy. we've seen L and L's before, but not only have we never seen god, we've seen nothing like it.
Isaia 43:11
Jesus can't be god ;)
De4sher 1 year ago
Amen brotha
TalibanTechies 1 year ago
@Kanakaberaka Just because a person is real, it doesn't mean that legendary material can't accrue around them like barnacles on a boat. We know that George Washington existed, but I think it's safe to say that if someone claimed that he came down from a spacecraft and personally instructed the stone carvers at Mount Rushmore, that event could be safely assigned to the realm of legend.
jdh501 1 year ago
@Kanakaberaka LOL. That's right, and that's exactly what the Christians do, isn't it? Babble incessantly over a fictional character.
jdh501 1 year ago
Excellent explanation, thanks.
judewishedhimselfout 1 year ago
No offense my friend,but with this logic you have, than probably you are an idiot...
NINTAADMIR 1 year ago
@NINTAADMIR
Gee Admir, why would I ever take offense at your comment? I don't know whether you, or others who have responded to my video with insults noticed that I treated even the person I disagreed with enough to make a video, with respect and kindness. I didn't insult him or impugn his intelligence. Why? because of the transformative power of Jesus in my own life. When you love him, he makes you more like him. What motivates you?
edzotube 1 year ago 19
@NINTAADMIR then not than...
iknowstuf 1 year ago
@NINTAADMIR That is a circular statement if I've ever heard one, and one made with poor grammar as well, but I digress. Mr Edzotube clearly and pointedly explains what Lewis meant in a passage that Lewis wrote, nothing within any of Edzotube's statements is illogical, what place do you have for calling him an idiot without providing any evidence to back up your accusation? It is the mark of a small and defeated mind to resort to name calling when they have nothing to add to the conversation.
fredrickharmon 1 year ago
@fredrickharmon Amen
HeWantsUsBackNow 1 year ago
I hate that C S Lewis quote about "Liar, Lunatic, or Lord". That's presumptuous of him to make the rules that there are only three possibilities. The first time I read that many years ago, I saw the error there. He reduces it to only three choices, when there are others. How about, "Liar, Lunatic, Lord...or LEGEND"? The problem disappears if we consign the whole thing to the storybooks where it belongs. After all, nobody argues about Darth Vader as if he were a real person to be explained.
jdh501 1 year ago
Fala portugues? Não sabe fazer outrra coisa? Então vai capinar um pátio!!!!!!!!!!1
Aateu 1 year ago
Jesus never said he was God. He said he was the son of man. "I am the way the truth and the life," doesn't mean that "I am The Creator of The Cosmos." "I and the father are one," does not mean that he knew everything that was happening in the universe simultaneously. "I an the father are one," does not mean that Jesus created himself and everything else in the universe. Jesus never stated that he was God. But after 1000 years of church repression it's understandable that you believe this.
prismwriter 1 year ago
@prismwriter Hello. You made a good point, though you've missed a piece of the jigsaw I'm afraid. Easily done though - two points (none of which I have space to explain in detail) - Look at Daniel Chapter 7 verse 13. The Son of Man was the title that Jesus used for himself. Think and pray on why He would. Secondly see Exodus 3:14 for God's name - now look a Mark 6:50... full and accurate translation is "take heart... I am". See all the "I am" sayings, especially in John. Take your time on this!
mdavy82 1 year ago
@TheDinkerson Not silly word games. Logic. It's the whole point of the conversation. You're presenting fallacious arguments in attempt to make a logical argument. You don't even seem to have a grasp of what logic is. I wasn't arguing if he existed, I was using it as example of another option. If you feel the need to cop out do so, it will be recorded that you were never able to explain the flaw in the logic.
StMarysOfTheMoon 1 year ago
But the bible is full of contradictions and God is full of anger and he killed many people in the old testament times etc. plaguing humanity is the bible..screwing with peoples minds.
aubhar 1 year ago
@TheDinkerson You have only presented two options which is again a false dilemma. There's always other options, for instance the guy never existed at all and the argument is meaningless. Either way, you're presenting a fallacious argument and as such have yet to explain how my logic is wrong.
StMarysOfTheMoon 1 year ago
@TheDinkerson You have presented me a false dilemma which is a logical fallacy unto itself. Instead of giving me empty fallacious statements perhaps you could explain where my logic is faulty?
StMarysOfTheMoon 1 year ago
When jesus said that your righteousness needs to exceed the pharacees, he was talking about us NOT being prideful.... the religious teacher of the time were hypocrites.... they said one thing and did another.... they shut the kingdom of heaven in peoples faces, they walked around town and got honor for themselves, but not foor God.... the righteousnes God desires, is to love others and not to think that you are better than others...
myalaynaangel 1 year ago
Lewis' great argument aptly applies to much of the Writers/Scriptures: some of the antics of the prophets - Ezekial walking around naked etc. - the very assertion that one speaks 'the words of the Lord' is tantamount to madness or precisely what is alledged - nothing in between! (I have always found the statement: "Just a prophet" to be innane and senseless: if one is JUST A PROPHET: we either believe and take serious or we do not!)
barabbas57 1 year ago
Quite right, thanks very much. It sounds like the person who put up the original video (which you have responded to) has not really read the book thoroughly. "C.S. Lewis was an idiot" sounds also, frankly, like a scared reaction....
ExLuedenscheider 1 year ago
>>C.S. Lewis was an IDIOT!
That's just sooo rednecky... ever read his books dumbass?
Jacob011 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
you fucking idiot !!!
ivancrook 1 year ago
CS Lewis fue brillante y vos sos un idiota pelado.
ivancrook 1 year ago
Este si que es flor de boludo !!!
ivancrook 1 year ago
lasker341 1 year ago
Well Obama is my president and i didnt vote for him nor choose him to be. A Teacher can be chosen!
Kevo4130 1 year ago
I'm not sure what rules of logic are being broken here. "I accept him as a teacher but not as God" is a perfectly logical point. One doesn't have to accept everything said teacher says to find them a good teacher. One could accept Obama as their president but they don't have to agree with everything he says. "If you accept Jesus as a teacher then you must accept him as God" is a logical fallacy.
StMarysOfTheMoon 1 year ago
@StMarysOfTheMoon
Often, people are just trying to figure out what to "do" with Jesus. One easy position is to say "I'll concede he was a good teacher". But again, it has to come back to WHAT he taught. His teaching is really dependent on who he claimed to be and can't be divorced from his identity. (His teaching derived from his identity). "Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you will not have eternal life" "Anyone who does not believe in me stands condemned" "Before Abraham was, I am"
edzotube 1 year ago 9
@edzotube But if you're are to use true logic then it still is perfectly acceptable. One doesn't have to agree with every aspect of said teachings to still find someone a good teacher. There is no rule of logic being broken.
StMarysOfTheMoon 1 year ago
@StMarysOfTheMoon
I think it's important for you to quote him correctly. He said "a good or great teacher", "not just a teacher." He cannot be an objectively great teacher if what he taught was untrue. I would not want my child being under the guidance of a teacher who didn't teach what was true. With such great claims Jesus made, you'd have to settle with one of the categories that Lewis gives.
DanPrinMan 1 year ago
@DanPrinMan The qualifier good or great doesn't change anything. Even more so when it comes to logic. There is no written rule that a man being declared a "great teacher" has to speak 100% truth. None. Even the "truth" is subjective. A lot of people might say Gandhi was a great teacher but not all those people would necessarily agree that every word he spoke was true. Great doesn't equal 100% truth. And simply saying that doesn't make it so.
StMarysOfTheMoon 1 year ago
@StMarysOfTheMoon Do you think Jesus was lying when he said he was the son of God?
SupremeAmerican 1 year ago
@SupremeAmerican Relevance to my point?
StMarysOfTheMoon 1 year ago
@StMarysOfTheMoon Just a question.
SupremeAmerican 1 year ago
@SupremeAmerican It's impossible for me to get in the head of Jesus Christ but If I had to take a guess I'd say no, Jesus wasn't lying, he believed he was the son of God.
StMarysOfTheMoon 1 year ago
@StMarysOfTheMoon Was he wrong?
SupremeAmerican 1 year ago
@SupremeAmerican Couldn't say.
StMarysOfTheMoon 1 year ago
Comment removed
SupremeAmerican 1 year ago
@StMarysOfTheMoon Don't pretend like you know how to debate logically little girl.
billj500 1 year ago
@jonterranova25
you're very eloquent. Show's you've got a real grasp on the issue. I'm impressed.
edzotube 1 year ago
@edzotube I wish I could have you around when I am arguing with an atheist. You are very intelligent, you know what are you are talking about, but most importantly, you are interested. God bless you.
devine1215 1 year ago
@devine1215
thanks. I'm sure you do fine. I think just being authentic goes a long way.
blessings right back!
-ed
edzotube 1 year ago
Comment removed
SupremeAmerican 1 year ago
C.S. Lewis was BRILLIANT
prettyemofreak 1 year ago
I didn't watch this video. I may not ever. I don't need to. Anyone who says that C.S. Lewis is and "idiot" just shot him self in the foot, along with his arguments before the race starts.
jazzynites 1 year ago
@jazzynites
WIth due respect, anyone who comments on a video's content before watching the video is probably not a vital participant in the conversation. If you would take the 5 minutes required to actually listen to what I said, you might change your mind. Something that comes to mind is when Jesus said, blessed is the one who is not offended by me. If you stop at the surface and take offense, you never get to the good stuff. True of Jesus, and dare I say, true of this video. Blessings to you
edzotube 1 year ago
Lewis did not know what he was talking about when it came to the christian life. he said of doubting thoughts "SHOVE THEM BACK", he said that the way to grow in christ: "LET'S PRETEND".
he advocated will of the flesh and hypocrisy, both in his book Mere Christainity. His apologetic may be useful but his practical counsel is highly dangerous
Strefanash 1 year ago
to name just one thing, an explaination of the full gospel would mean to make clear why xtians are to kill those who want god's followers to serve other gods. if i were to take your faith seriously i would stay in a plank shack and live to serve the poor until i died, exactly as christ said. very few in your faith take god's word seriously - most do not even know the scriptures - they are petrified of the afterlife with it's burning hell and are merely trying to please a fearsome god.
wp4866 1 year ago
Jesus took our punishment out of love for us and He rose again so that we may rise with Him on the last day. People do not like to answer the question I asked it to an atheist and the man said that Jesus did not exist so the question can not be answered. But I asked if Jesus did not exist then where and how did the Christian faith come about and spread through out the centuries?
mrlittlemarvel 1 year ago
1. There is no point in the Bible were Jesus explicitly states he is God. -- This in fact is a critique used against Lewis by theologians who felt that Lewis had a very weak understanding of the bible.
2. Most of the bits were Jesus strongly implies that he is god are in the Book of John. Most modern textual critics consider John to be written 60-70 years after the Jesus and to be highly unreliable.
Finally you must remember that this was superstitious age, the entire period was a bit mad.
nathanielselby 1 year ago 2
@nathanielselby
Thanks for the reasoned and non-trolling response. Here are a couple of points in response.
1. Christian thjeologians would likely NOT have challenged Lewis on the point, since all of Christian theology hinges on Jesus' divinity, notwithstanding the lack of any specific quote wherein Jesus says "hello, I am God". An informed reading of the scripture implicitly communicates the divinity claim. (cont)
edzotube 1 year ago
@edzotube 1. They do not question Jesus' divinity, simply that Jesus claimed he was divine. Examples include New Testament scholar Bishop N T Wright who considered Lewis argument to be historically incorrect. Popular theologian William Lane Craig admitted that at least part of the trilemma are "unsound". Bishop John Robinson admits its doubtful that Jesus ever claimed godhood.
nathanielselby 1 year ago
@nathanielselby
"Before Abraham was, I am" "If you have seen me you have seen the father", His affirmative claims in response to the temple leaders and pilate, his description of his role on "Judgement day" etc. Etc, Not to mention all of the places where others emphatically comment on his divinity. (Peter, Paul)
edzotube 1 year ago
@edzotube But your argument is that Jesus claimed to be god not that Paul or Peter claimed he was. As for the quote it is vague like much of the bible and could be interpreted many different ways. It is only through years of Church enforced doctrine that it has come to mean what does.
nathanielselby 1 year ago
@nathanielselby
2. John was a later Gospel true, and certainly more theological expository in nature than the 3 synoptic gospels, but lateness and depth do not necessitate unreliability. This is a first hand account.
edzotube 1 year ago
@edzotube 2. There is nothing to indicate it is a first hand account. It contains numerous discrepancies with the other Synoptic gospels. Parts of seem specifically designed to make up history to fulfill prophecy. Truthfully if you want my take on the trilemma. Who ever wrote John and the numerous writers that wrote what we call Paul were prob at least somewhat disingenuous. The rest once again came from a credulous superstitious time.
nathanielselby 1 year ago
@nathanielselby
3. Your point about this being a "superstitious" time is prejorative and assumptive.
edzotube 1 year ago
@edzotube 3.Lets see ... we have the Zealots (a radical Jewish sect) running about. The Sicarii suicide cult at Masada. Loony "prophets" sitting on columns. And in the non Jewish realm we have Emperors who think they are gods and Mystery cults aplenty. Not to mention they were still stoning people for witch craft. Nope not superstitious at all. Dude I have a BA in history, I am familiar with this time period.
nathanielselby 1 year ago
@nathanielselby
Lewis encountered something that millions before and since have, and it changed his entire life: The experience of a risen Lord, which, despite the difficulties it presents, once had, does not go away. he spent much of his life trying to communicate the ineffable for the benefit of others. This is a mission I deeply admire him for and one which he undertook with acuity and executed with great effect.
edzotube 1 year ago
@edzotube Essential problem ... you are hedging now ... your point was to demonstrate the trilemma sound. You have not done this so you are trying to distract with flowery but meaningless language.
nathanielselby 1 year ago
@edzotube Essential problem.. if nathanielslby discussed his beliefs in a video there would be no conversation. We would probably say he is crazy, pray, and move on. If he attacked his own belief system with the same ferocity as yours, he would find it to be unstable. If he can't attack his belief in the same way, well, he has no faith in that belief system. Way to defend your FAITH. Rom. 1:21-22
comeeeeoo 1 year ago
@comeeeeoo I have a few videos ... you are perfectly free to watch them and post on them ... if you have a specific subject you would like me to address let me know.
nathanielselby 1 year ago
i see you said nothing
sthcrox 1 year ago
@sthcrox Um. I replied to your original comment inquiring about what I was saying. Not sure if you got it, but if so, I suspect you are just trolling
edzotube 1 year ago
@edzotube
you can say that. carry on.
sthcrox 1 year ago
@edzotube
you are right. carry on.
sthcrox 1 year ago
what is your point? i mean, any real point?
sthcrox 1 year ago
@sthcrox at the risk of creating a feedback loop, I will ask: what do you mean what do I mean? Are you saying you had trouble understanding what I said? Or are you suggesting I didn't actually say anything? Or are you more just trying to figure out where I "Stand" .
edzotube 1 year ago
Great video on CS Lewis! His 'Lord, Liar, or Lunatic' argument always continues to delight me, as well as blow me away. Lewis;s logic is at once simple, yet profound; deadly serious, yet humorous. Whenever I think of this jewel of an argument for Jesus Christ as being exactly Who He Says He Is...I want to shout, "why didnt I think of that??!!"
Of course, I never would have nor ever even gotton close to thinking of that. There is only one CS Lewis!
Blessings, Martha (fischerpilne)
fischerpilne 1 year ago
@fischerpilne
Thanks and I agree.
edzotube 1 year ago
To logically explain Jesus or God is certainly unattainable. This basically is your faith at work. To deny either or would be to deny your very existence. Your also missing what bonds Jesus and his Father, The Holy Spirit. You can't hang on a quote here or there to explain the full gospel. Until you come to a full understanding you will remain blind. Sorry bro, this is the Truth. Excuse me if I sounded preachy. When you've experienced God as I have you will know How God the
dooleyshaun 1 year ago
@dooleyshaun
Thanks for joining in. I agree that at a certain point a step of faith is ultimately required to experience Jesus, but I also follow Peter's advice to stand ready to give a reason for the hope we have to anyone who asks.
edzotube 1 year ago 2
hey, I recommend Greg Kohul Christianity vid series on my channel. He addresses the same topic among many others!!
Armando7654 1 year ago
thank finely a Christan on youtube
theChirstankid 1 year ago
Thank you for that explanation, very humble and thought provoking. God bless you.
btplove1 1 year ago
This is so on target ! Bullseye !
The question remains today ?
Who was Jesus ?
AND
As Pilate asked the people waiting to hear the verdict on Jesus.
We still have that question today,
What are you going to do with this Jesus ?
So what will you do with Jesus ?
Jesuvive 1 year ago
Thank you for pointing out the sources outside the Bible. This fact seems to go unnoticed to many. God bless.
MasterWok7 1 year ago
Good job Ed. Thanks for that.
dbroda2000 1 year ago
You are amazing and truthful, sir. Thank you. You were direct and did not mince words. Thank you. Blessings to you...
pannyy55 1 year ago
Your my hero
Passion4Rock88 1 year ago
Nice to see a polite and thoughtful response on such a weighty topic.
mjn76 1 year ago
Look the New Testament books are some of the best attested to historical documents of the classical period. This whole idea that because someone uses the Bible to talk about Christ as a historical person then they are being circular is a red herring.
WanderingSeer 1 year ago