@franciscoreatas11 & Khalsasikh Thanks for understanding the hstory of judo and go kick some ass. I just wanted to let those people who know nothing about the history of judo. Everything came from Judo. Maeda Mitsuyo is the one who took Judo and Newaza to Brazil and taught the Gracie family. Have some respect for Japan. Jiu-jitsu is japanese. Everything is in japanese.
You need to put this into perspective; Kimura out-weighed Helio by over 50 lbs! Having said that, juijitsu was created IN JAPAN, and judo came from juijitsu. No such thing as "BJJ"...it's juijitsu PRACTICED in Brazil. Judo is still an Olympic sport...and a well-trained juijitsu fighter is still the best in MMA.
@mckbln You are inaccurate. Helio weighed 80 kgs at the time of the fight, and Kimura weighed 85. Jujutsu began in Japan, first as a combat art by the Samurai. Then into various styles of Jujutsu that were one dimensional. Jigoro Kano learned many styles of Jujutsu in the 1800's, and later combined them with Sumo and Wrestling to make Judo, or "Kano Jiu Jitsu" as it was originally called. Mitsuyo Maeda brought Judo or "Kano Jiu-Jitsu" as he still called it to Brazil. The Gracies admit it
@mckbln Also, both the Gracie family and various BJJ and Jujutsu fighters have losses to catch-wrestlers, Judoka's, Sambo practitioners, kickboxers and the like in modern MMA. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is known for it's special rules for it's own advantages, such as no time limits, no point systems, and submission only rules. And still losing at times. If anything, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu has proven it is one dimensional. It focuses too heavily on the ground. But like Boxing, its proven it works
Brazilian gay jitsu does not rule the mat..it never has.Kimura was playing with helio. Hell, when Kimura had him on his KesaGetame, and helio reached back with his legs, Kimura let him go and went into a different position. FIrst of all, that is not an escape from Kesa. In fact in you do that, you will get trapped by a compresion againts the ribs and a neck crank! I do it all the time.
It took the best Judoka to beat Helio. You forgot to mention his defeat of Kato, a 5th dan Judoka, which was why Kimura came over. If Helio was such a fraud, why did he submit Kato, the 5th dan? How can a goober beat a top Judoka? In fact, the first matych was a draw and, the second was a submission. Helio Gracie was no slouch, just not at Kimuras level, but very few were.
@MrPotatoesLatkie Keep on with the gracie idolotry. FYI you do not see too many gracies fighting againts japanese judoka, do you? and by the way, the throw kimura performed on helio, could have broken helio's legs, as an option, but since Judoka are Honorable, that option was off the table...
@MrPotatoesLatkie Keep on with the gracie idolotry. FYI you do not see too many gracies fighting againts japanese judoka, do you? and by the way, the throw kimura performed on helio, could have broken helio's legs, as an option, but since Judoka are Honorable, that option was off the table...
@MrPotatoesLatkie Keep on with the gracie idolotry. you do not see too many gracies fighting againts japanese judoka, do you? by the way, the throw kimura performed on helio, could have broken helio's legs,but since Judoka are Honorable, that option was off the table.The match could have ended in 13 seconds. watch the video, the position at 13 seconds is critical. If you, instead of reaping the leg, lock it to the ground with all of your weight+ your opponents, then reap, the leg will break
@franciscoreatas11 Your comments only prove that Kimura was a better grappler than Helio and, nowhere did I argue any different. I only inferred that your anti-Gracie and, BJJ stance isn't as strong as you'd like it to be because, if Helio was such a slouch, he would have been beaten nearly as bad against Kato, as he was against Kimura. But, his record against the 5th Dan was 1-0-1. Not bad for a middle aged slouch.
If you think that's idolatry, you're lost in your own rhetoric.
@MrPotatoesLatkie First of all, great grammar. Second what I am saying is that brazilian gay jitsu is diluted Judo..that is it. brazilian did not invent anything, nor they modified, or improved the ground game.
The Russians never discredit Judo, in fact most Sambo players in Rusia start with Judo. You should find a Judo gym and try to learn the science and art of Samurai Jujitsu through Judo..
@franciscoreatas11 Thanks. BJJ is a focus on what the Japanese call Newaza and, they seem to rely more on technique in getting out from under someone. I've watched Judo matches and, the coaches always promote explosive bridges to get the opponent off, or powerful leverage based movements. In BJJ, I've seem little of that. They do more side to side hip movements. That would be a big difference. Judokas also like to turtle and, give up their backs, something not done in BJJ.
So they did change some things. The object of the original jiu-jitsu was for self-defense. They further developed it my taking on challenge matches. So it's different. Judo goes for a throw and, if needed, a quick submission, whereas BJJ has a more patient, strategic game on the ground.
@MrPotatoesLatkie It depends wether the Judo club concentrates on Competion or quasi-Judo combat/fight club. I am learning Judo from 2 sources (both originated from the same Sensei at Rendokan of Tucson).One concentrates on the beauty of throws,classical ground game, and self defense aspects of Judo; the other on ground game and maybe 7-10 throws (Tucson Dojo under Steve Owens and Rainy Martinez Mitt and Matts).Rainy always yells at me for not switching my hips and laying flat on my back
@alicongo the ignorance of your comment is astounding, these two are competing which proves both arts exist, judo is a variation of jujitsu , Brazilian JIU-jitsu is a variation of Judo
this is silly. judo and jujutsu are the same thing. judo is learning the techniques to practice and for non lethal activities. jujutsu is using those techniques to attack or killing and for use on the battlefield.
Remember in judo class, where you should do technique and not use strength to take your opponents down? Now what if i added strength to it? The fight would have end it alot sooner with or without mats.
in the translation it says there wasn't a bad intention to hurt helio. kimura's head lock was so hard that helio's ears started to bleed. kimura loosend the lock and said are you ok to helio.
Judo and brazillian jujutsu are really similar. the only difference is judo guys train more from standing and bjj guys start from the knees.
they both respect each other very well. It is total nonsense to be saying witch style is better for fighting.
yo creo que siempre gana el hombre por encima del arte marcial que practique
el esfuerzo y la perseverancia harán que sea un mejor practicante marcial que uno que no hace nada de nada y pretende que la teoría del arte le resuelva la lucha
Isso é a prova incontestável que o BJJ nada mais é que JUDÔ, Mitsuo Maeda que era 4º DAN DE JUDÔ passou para a familia Gracie o que aprendeu com Jigoro Kano. Uma arte valorizou mais a parte educativa e esportiva da Arte Marcial (o Judô) e o Jiu Jitsu valorizou mais a luta de chão, porém são iguais, nomes foram trocados para ficar mais fácil memorizar os golpes no Brasil, mas todos os golpes de Jiu-jitsu são do KATA DO JUDÔ. O Sankaku-jime,(triângulo), Juji-gatame (arm-lock), etc...
wrong title, actually judo is jujutsu, it was ju jutsu which mean gentle art, then Mr kano he changed to gentle way judo and he took off the leg locks and some dangerous locks in order be more usefull, but almost generation of kodokan who was all of them judoka they were also professional in jujutsu, and thats what Mitsuyo maeda who went to brazil and teach gracie family , he was 4dan judo, actual judo changed so much thats why jujutsu become famous, but that time all know it well,
wrong title, actually judo is jujutsu, it was ju jutsu which mean gentle art, then Mr kano he changed to gentle way judo and he took off the leg locks and some dangerous locks in order be more usefull, but almost generation of kodokan who was all of them judoka they were also professional in jujutsu, and thats what Mitsuyo maeda who went to brazil and teach gracie family , he wass 4dan judo, actual judo changed so much thats why jujutsu become famous, but that time all know it well,
On last thing, when you are training in your gay-jitsu gym, and they tell you that the reason you start from the knees is because all fights end up in the ground...Get up and tell them that they are full of shit. When you are slammed into hard concrete, the only thing you that is going to end up in the ground in your face on the pavement....
I just don't get this gracie idolotry and bjj fantacies...I repeat, I am a begineer, and I must tell you, I have not seen a single technique in bjj that I have not seen in Judo.. The gracies did not invent shit. It is insulting to say that they were able to develop or change something that the Japanese Samurai perfected 2 centuries... Judo is the true heir of the Samurai Killing art, known as JuJutsu...
I have trained at 3 martial arts gyms that have both Judo and BJJ. I prefer to do Judo always because BJJ attracts fight STARTERS, arrogant punks, people interested in bullying and getting in fights at bars, drunks, drug users and even drug dealers. BJJ has NO focus on character development (like Judo). Just look at the attitude of this "Bloodline321" dude. He's a good example of the kind I'm talking about.
If a person wants to fight in the ring (UFC, etc), it is better to train BJJ (or just Judo matwork) than competition Judo. However, Judo is a better self defense on the street because you can dispense with multiple attackers and throw someone to retrieve your weapon. BJJ is only effective for a fight againt ONE UNARMED individual.
ITS NOT ABOUT THE ART ITS ABOUT THE PERSON WHO EXECUTES IT BETTER BJJ IS DEVELOPED IN A VERY SIMILAR WAY AS JUDO BUT MASTER HELIO GRACIE WAS NOT AS PHYSICALLY STRONG OR BIG SO HE DEVELOPED A WAY TO IMPLEMENT FORCE THROUGH LEVERAGE JUJITSU IS MORE TECNICAL JUDO IS A BIT MORE BRUTE AND IN YOUR FACE AND BASED ON THROWS AND DOMINATING THE POSITION . THATS THE WAY I SEE IT I HOPE I LEARN BOTH ARTS IM A BIG YOSHIDA AND GRACIE FAN
@bloodline321 BJJ is newaza judo (with some tecniques Judokas don't really practice anymore since they are illegal in competition). BJJ trains almost solely on that groundwork, so they are naturally going to get better faster on their groundwork than a Judoka who trains mostly on throwing (because one good throw wins a match). BJJ didn't invent their techniques. It all comes from techniques they learned from the Japanese.
@ jiujitsuclub helio beat kato, 2nd only to kimura. When Helio beat him, he moved up and took that spot. Kimura #1 and Helio 2nd. Kimura was the master at that time. The things Helio accomplished was amazing. Look at MMA! AMAZING!
I agree with bloodline. Judo guys are Hung up on something that happend long ago. Kimura was the head cheese, of course you were not going to beat him. I attend a traditional judo school and do bjj. Idiots, get over it. Martial arts are now united.
There is no mma guy that says..."dam, I wanna be the best in the world ... I think I'm gonna go to japan and learn judo" ... fuck no! they say let's learn brazilian jujitsu, wrestling, Muay Thai and boxing. judo isn't even a factor. only in japan.
The guy below is my comment an ignorant garbage bag. Bjj one the ground and judo standing. Judokas like you are idiots. Your Hung up on something that happend in the early 1900s... right now, there is no dominant judo martial artist. Without bjj, mma wouldn't be. The gracies put no holds barred on the map... put it out on the line and stepped up. Hello beat his best student... by choke out. Of course kimura was the grand master at the time... ufc champions specialize in wrestling and bjj. So fu!
Lol i did Jiu jitsu vs Judo sometime. Its perect to train both. but the ground rules for Jiu jitsu are different then from Judo even fighting system rules Jiu jitsu ground are different from Judo they where always saying... omg u may not do that thats illigal :)
but if u can practice both it are 2 sides of the same coin
bloodline correct! Newaza, tachiwaza, Judo is suppose ideally suppose to be 50 50 bjj is basically 100 percent newaza, but I take my hat off to them as a judoka because of their accomplishments and development.
After this match, Helio Gracie gave the name "kimura" to the reverse ude-garami arm lock which was used by Kimura Masahiko to defeat him, as a way to show respect. We all know this move as kimura now!
There is no such thing as BJJ. The so called gracie JJ is nothig more than diluted Judo..Ask they gracies why do they take off their Gis whenever they fight Japanese judokas..
If you have a brazilian gay jitsu dominate a Judoka, then its because the individual is more dominant, not because BJJ has better techiniques....
Find a Judo dojo that concentrates in combat/aggressive Judo. you will see the power and beauty of Judo. I wish I could find a Sambo gym, sambo is more complete
@franciscoreatas11 judo doesnt compare to jiu jitsu, its a joke. They are different thoug. ones a sport one is for a fight. I train in the gracie academy in miami florida. But i had moved for a long time, and even was living in the olympic training center for judo but i would use jiu-jitsu to win. Just posted the vid, check it out. Love judo but people have to understand they are for different objectives. Even the usa olympians agree
@1NX9 Your completely mistaken. Kimura himself admitted in an interview that, what GM Helio Gracie was doing was a completely different style than what he practices.
The Gracies didnt learn the finer points or techniques because Maeda held back techniques .
Rickson Gracie said in his own book they were taught basics and newaza but not the whole judo curiculum. eg The Gracie didnt learn the triangle choke until the 1960's when they got it from judokas in Brazil.
"Gracie Jiujitsu" is still kosen judo. This was taken up on Bullshido forum a number of years ago. Ronin69 did a good job on it as he was one of the few members who can read Japanese. Maeda was a known registered kosen judo practitioner but was sent overseas because he was abit of a maverick.
Kosen judo is still being practiced by students of Kanae Hirata. Kano consider kosen as part of kodokan just with emphasis on the ground.
Why because Bullshido forum history hack members discredited the "Gracie Jujijutsu" myth?
Why because Japanese speaking members on Bullshido read Japanese sources and found out Maeda was a registered kosen judo ("Kano jiujitsu") practitioner under Kano?
Why because Kanae Hirata an old timer and kosen judo practitioner has old black and white footages of them doing Tons of different newaza moves (including pulling guard) ?
@1NX9 hahaha becuase retards like you miss the point. I have all those videos, i never denied that they knew those techniques? You think i thought GM Helio invented the arm lock or triangle? Of course he didnt. You are missing the point completely and i have lost energy and motivation to help someone realize something when they dont want to. Maybe your someone who never had the chance to learn real Jiu-Jitsu, so this is what you believe to make your self feel better. Anyways i dont care anymore.
no, Jujutsu came before this bjj bullshit. There is no difference. Those dirty brazilian monkeys took jujutsu and called it their own art. Jujutsu is judo with submissions. Jujutsu > this imposter callled bjj. Kimura proved that when he snapped Helio's arm and choked him out.
@1NX9 Yup. Newaza is what I specialized in after an injury pretty much destroyed my dream of going to the Olympics. I've been to Japan and have trained with the best Judokas, including Yoshida and Sakuraba, though Sakuraba taught me catch wrestling which is another art. I even trained with Mike Swain and the great Gene Labell in the states. When I went to Brazil with some of my Japanese Newaza Judo fighters, we dominated the Brazilians. They got us very few times. They were sore losers.
@vincentnolajan Yes, that is very, very true. The one thing I appreciate most about learning Judo and great Newaza techniques from going to Japan and even learning in the states is the DISCIPLINE! Brazilians as a whole are very undisciplined, and the Gracies are no exception. I sparred against a very well known and revered Brazilian black belt, and I choked him twice into unconciousness. The rest of the time we fought to a draw. I thought I was gonna get shot. I left Brazil soon after.
@bloodline321 Looks to me like Kimura ruled the ground and the feet on this one! Just hard to beat the roots of the thing the Gracies learned. No disrespect, though. But Kimura really dominated Helio. I've never seen this before!
Judo comes from jujitsu...Bjj comes from judo...so i agree with you 100% bloodline321, all the bullshit that people spew, saying one is better then the other is just nonsense...all three are the same art, but with different focus...but i will say one thing in re-guard to your comment..JJ and Bjj may have the advantage in ground work over judo, but they far from rule it. if you train old style, Dr.kono style judo then judo has a shocking amount of ground game and isn't to be taken lightly. :)
@moxygen2 Its the other way around. Jiu Jitsu is the parent of Judo. Judo was created so that the deadly combat moves were taken out in order to be practiced as competitive sport as you now see in the Olympics. Also many other Japanese martial arts originated from Jiu Jitsu such as Karate.
@Rockmaster2112 if both men had been equal weight your right it would of ended sooner gracie style!the jap was a lot stronger and bigger,helio lasted over 20mins the longest fight the kimura ever had and was the world champion at the time,was so blown away with the little guy he asked him to teach in this dojo's in japan,first time he ever ask a non jap.All the best fighters use BJJ why? because it works!
@MrNupit " The gong rang. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it's my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi." While I do agree with you that the match would have gone differently, Helio was not able to get Kimura to the ground because his technique was not as good as Kimura's. Kimura fought tons of people who were just as big as he was, but no one was ever...
@MrNupit ...to get him down. It's not Helio's fault, he was just going against a guy who had the base of a tree trunk. If anything Helio survived better than most, for which he should be commended. This whole thing about judo vs bjj has nothing to do with this fight. It's just Kimura vs Gracie. Kimura won, does that say that judo is better than bjj. No. If Gracie won, does that say bjj is better. No. What it says is that Kimura came more prepared physically and technically between the two.
@MrNupit Goofball: It was Helio who said size doesn't matter, and the Gracies have always maintained that about size. By the way, the jiujitsu the Gracies know was taught by a Japanese Judo master. Their groundwork is all Judo groundwork (with some techniques no longer legal in competition Judo). BJJ focuses on almost only the matwork, so a person training in BJJ is naturally going to become better at matwork faster than a Judoka who trains mostly on throwing techniques.
@MrNupit Kimura was the superior technician standing and on the ground, so since size doesn't matter (as Helio maintains), Kimura would have spanked him regardless of who was bigger. The amount of time he lasted doesn't mean much. Have you ever trained in ANY martial art ever!?
Judo is a SPORT and BJJ is also a SPORT. BJJ can be classified as BASICALLY JUST JUDO. No need to combine them. They are two fighting sports that deals with 98% on the ground. Whats there to combine?
@slouttop ...I'm not sure if I said anything about combining them, but then again my comments are 3 months old. I was just talking about how Kimura won fair and square because he was better, despite people talking about size difference.
The only thing this and other similar videos prove and should ever aim at proving is that there are fighters/masters which are better than others. Not that one martial art is better than the other, not that fighters/masters from one nation are better than others, not that one school is better than the other. A well-landed boxing punch that lands you motionless on the ground will do the job just as well as the quickest most effective choke you could possibly apply to ones neck.
@insanedalek you're extremely cocky, I can answer with your exact same words to your previous comments and It'd be as valid as you're trying to make it look right now to my comment, but you're just evading the facts; my father was a police for 30 years, so I know LOTS AND LOTS of policemen, my two best friends and a cousin of mine are in the army, and I got another cousin in the marines... I workout and practice martial arts stuff with one of my soldier friends, so I know what I'm talking about
@insanedalek what techniques? most police officers are fat and out of shape, and soldiers do not specialize on martial arts, though they learn them, they rarely excel
@insanedalek You speak against my grammatical errors and spelling mistakes when your make some yourself. I merely pointed out facts to pick apart your arguments against brazilian jujitsu as a legitimate martial art. You responded by calling me stupid multiple times, throwing at me a bunch of anti-american stereotypes, and stating biased opinions. You sure proved your logical and mathematical genius! You are just a stupid troll who doesn't know how to state your arguments well. ._.
Soooo to iterate point two! CALL BJJ what you will.... IT IS still and EFFECTIVE self defense form, albeit exaggerated or not... and I thought I should point out that they teach many things in Gracie Jiu Jitsu that they dont allow in Judo.... such as knee bars and leglocks... and spine locks. and according to your logic if Gracie Jiu Jitsu is ripping off Judo because they derive and improvised many of the techniques from there.... then wont that make Judo a ripoff of Tenjin Shinyo Ryu?
@insanedalek and the US MARINE CORPS incorporate many of the techniques found in Gracie Jiu Jitsu into their hand to hand combat system. get your shit straight. and dont retaliate with some childish anti american bullshit...
2) BJJ, or Kodokan Judo (Kano Jiu Jitsu) Ripoff or whatever it is you want to make of it is still a VERY EFFECTIVE self defense system.... in a street fight YOU WILL be TAKEN DOWN annd CHOKED.... or get Caught in a leg lock.. arm lock... knee bar... arm bar
@insanedalek fist of all I think there are two things I should point out to you!:
1) roughly speaking 80 % of fights actually end up on the ground, but for old time sakes lets pretend that it is only 60% as you say.... pretty much you are saying that 1 out of every 2 fight you get ends up in the ground... so thats still pretty high! and what is this garbage you are spouoting about Soldiers and Police? The US Army Rangers teach Gracie Jiu Jitsu to their soldiers for their hand to hand combat.
@insanedalek fist of all I think there are two things I should point out to you!:
1) roughly speaking 80 % of fights actually end up on the ground, but for old time sakes lets pretend that it is only 60% as you say.... pretty much you are saying that 1 out of every 2 fight you get ends up in the ground... so thats still pretty high! and what is this garbage you are spouoting about Soldiers and Police? The US Army Rangers teach Gracie Jiu Jitsu to their soldiers for their hand to hand combat.
@insanedalek The only person lying here is you. Every one knows Bjj is NOT jijutsu the gracies themselves not only admit but emphasise this over and over again. Bjj involves less strength than jijutsu cuz the gracie who it was introduced to was very physically weak and he adopted it to suit his body type. Thats why even woman can use BJJ. Stop acting like u know something.
@insanedalek I see. Thanks. I must admit, the thought of going to ground as quick as you can does seem dubious if there's a load of guys waiting to do a tap dance routine on your head. yes, I know about the kano Jujitsu, I have an old book from 1920's of that title. Interesting stuff.
@insanedalek I can't argue about the efficacy of BJJ over Judo because i don't know enough about either, but considering Judo is Jujitsu with less techniques, does it make BJJ lesser because it has 'less techniques'?
@jin54363 It means "Brazilian Ju-Jitsu". Basically, Judo was known as "Kano Jujitsu" in the early days (being developed from Ju-jitsu) and it was a Kodokan Judo master who taught the Gracies in Brazil. They developed their own style based on the groundwork of Judo and other bits they found useful.
@insanedalek I have one question for you really: what is your problem? Is it wrong to learn martial arts and to create your own style? Because that is what they did. Stop crying lmao.
1) Define a REAL fight. Why would soldiers know what a real fight is when they use weapons? Why would the Police know what a REAL fight is when they can use stun guns, sticks, call for back up, etc..? What is a REAL fight sir?
2) Jujutsu is the roots of Judo AND Bjj. The Gracie were taught Jujutsu and motherfucking modified it into their own style. Stop hating you punk ass fool, it makes you look UBER stupid.
3) Are you capable of doing anything the Gracies have done? Nope
@insanedalek replying to the first point: if law enforcement and military say its trash, then why do they train in BJJ/Gracie Jiu Jitsu or ask the Gracies to train them??
replying to the second point: Esai Maeda taught Jiu Jitsu to the Gracies starting in 1915. This means they were ranked by the Japanese Grand Master so that they were capable of teaching as well. Nothing was stolen. The word Jujutsu and JiuJitsu are and mean the same, these words were anomalous.
@SkemeKOS Really? You must be shitting me my friend... If not going after criminals don't include fighting, then they must have an easier job than what people would think.
@insanedalek Daleks music is terrible. if your a fan, it makes sense that your some bitter cunt shitting on a family that made martial arts mainstream.
honestly, you should be hating on strip mall karate dojo's, their the ones who really extort money in the names of martial arts. the gracies might do it, but at least BJJ is applicable. find me one guy in MMA with a Tiger-Schulman Karate blackbelt
BTW police and soldiers fight with guns, you fuckin dildo.
I train BJJ but am starting at the local judo and kickboxing club this sunday to diversify my skills a little. I think the ultimate system lies in a combination of many martial arts, whereby you pick and chose the parts of each that work for you.
So what if 60% of fights go to the ground. 95% of fights you can get someone to the ground. And if you are trained in groundwork, you instantly are a a massive advantage once you get the fight there.
One thing the Gracies don't address is where you are facing more than one attacker (a common situation on the "street" that they claim to have invented the perfect system for).
@insanedalek 1) US military use it. (Marines and Army Rangers included). Google Army rangers train jiujitsu. I have even read news about police officers trained it and introduced it to other officers because it is useful. So I have no idea where you came up with police and soilders say it is trash.
2) BJJ is a different type of Traditional Jap JiuJitsu. It's not a rip off. It's modified and used vey differently. exmaple: Judo thought groundwork is not important, BJJ is all about ground.
@YiuYeung It's like chinese invented gun powder and then someone else invented the gun. It's basically used in a very different way, not a ripoff. And many moves in BJJ were modified and changed.
@YiuYeung us army < canadian army, canadian army hates the concept of bjj. if your army is so much better, why was canada the strongest allied army in ww1, advanced farthest on d-day and the army americans copied when they claim to have found a way past chemical warfare even though canadians did the same thing earlier but without gas masks. america relies on the quantity of their army while canada uses quality
@YiuYeung I'm not sure if the marines use it, as they developed MCMAP. The same applies to most US military branches. Parts are certainly taken from bjj, as well as other martial arts, including but not limited to: wushu, boxing, and some wrestling. Although i do know that US cops use it, but at the same time japanese cops train in judo. It's really a matter of mixing to find what suits the purposes best.
@insanedalek I totally agree! BJJ is developed from judo and is a shamelsss franchise with financial gain being it's core ethos! I mean come on 'GRACIE UNIVERSITY'
@insanedalek your stupid,eh... every "bjj" move also has a japanese name, what does that tell you? i think it tells you that every single move in gracie or brazillian jj was already invented does it not?
@chilidog1001 your pretty stupid considering rubber gaurd was actually became used and found in new york. also judo is a martial art, = made to look pretty, jui jitsu is (such as bjj) street fighting skill. why did jui jitsu get incorporated into the military and the police rather than judo, why do judo fighters in ufc, wec, strikeforce, get there ass's kicked and jui jitsu everytime. trying to defend judo is beating a dead horse. and i train with a combative trainer from army, he loves it
@speedthorn okay you got the rubber guard? woah great contribution bjj has made!!! please explain how jiu jitsu isn't a martial art and a street fighting skill? in fact in japan they put jj fighters against judokas and 12 out of 15 went to judo and there are no judo fighters in any mma organization with the exception of karo parisiyan who actually dominated the ufc with his throws and submissions. lastly the only reason the army uses graciejj is because they became famous through small fights
@insanedalek you dont know shit and would get spanked. plus whatever you think police and soldiers say doesn't mean shit. those guys train BJJ all the time. where do your stats come from by the way? are you saying that their method of ground fighting is ineffective regardless of the orgins? who are you?
They were taught the style by Maeda and, did with it what they wanted after he left. Maeda taught them what he had learned from the Judoand, as a prize fighter . He sold it as his own. Kano took what he wanted from the various schools if JJ and, sold it as his own, giving tribute to those that came before, just as the Gracies and, Maeda did. Prior to that, all the schools of JJ modified what came before and, it became their own. That's the story of the martial arts.
Is more judo against judo lol
sexoja23 2 weeks ago
@franciscoreatas11 & Khalsasikh Thanks for understanding the hstory of judo and go kick some ass. I just wanted to let those people who know nothing about the history of judo. Everything came from Judo. Maeda Mitsuyo is the one who took Judo and Newaza to Brazil and taught the Gracie family. Have some respect for Japan. Jiu-jitsu is japanese. Everything is in japanese.
Hipower0429 1 month ago
IM SURE BOTH THESE FIGHTERS IN THERE PRIMES COULD BUST GEORGE ST PIERRES ARM OR MAKE HIM TAP
BustersTexas 1 month ago
まさに聖なる闘い。格闘家同士でなく武道家同士のプライドをかけた闘いだ。
oomoji1 2 months ago
Se o Carlos Gracie não tivesse jogado a toalha, o Kimura teria levado o braço do Hélio Gracie pro Japão.
chueri 2 months ago
You need to put this into perspective; Kimura out-weighed Helio by over 50 lbs! Having said that, juijitsu was created IN JAPAN, and judo came from juijitsu. No such thing as "BJJ"...it's juijitsu PRACTICED in Brazil. Judo is still an Olympic sport...and a well-trained juijitsu fighter is still the best in MMA.
mckbln 2 months ago
@mckbln You are inaccurate. Helio weighed 80 kgs at the time of the fight, and Kimura weighed 85. Jujutsu began in Japan, first as a combat art by the Samurai. Then into various styles of Jujutsu that were one dimensional. Jigoro Kano learned many styles of Jujutsu in the 1800's, and later combined them with Sumo and Wrestling to make Judo, or "Kano Jiu Jitsu" as it was originally called. Mitsuyo Maeda brought Judo or "Kano Jiu-Jitsu" as he still called it to Brazil. The Gracies admit it
azraelangelofred 3 weeks ago
@mckbln Also, both the Gracie family and various BJJ and Jujutsu fighters have losses to catch-wrestlers, Judoka's, Sambo practitioners, kickboxers and the like in modern MMA. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is known for it's special rules for it's own advantages, such as no time limits, no point systems, and submission only rules. And still losing at times. If anything, Brazilian Jiu-jitsu has proven it is one dimensional. It focuses too heavily on the ground. But like Boxing, its proven it works
azraelangelofred 3 weeks ago
Brazilian gay jitsu does not rule the mat..it never has.Kimura was playing with helio. Hell, when Kimura had him on his KesaGetame, and helio reached back with his legs, Kimura let him go and went into a different position. FIrst of all, that is not an escape from Kesa. In fact in you do that, you will get trapped by a compresion againts the ribs and a neck crank! I do it all the time.
franciscoreatas11 3 months ago
@franciscoreatas11
It took the best Judoka to beat Helio. You forgot to mention his defeat of Kato, a 5th dan Judoka, which was why Kimura came over. If Helio was such a fraud, why did he submit Kato, the 5th dan? How can a goober beat a top Judoka? In fact, the first matych was a draw and, the second was a submission. Helio Gracie was no slouch, just not at Kimuras level, but very few were.
MrPotatoesLatkie 3 months ago
@MrPotatoesLatkie Keep on with the gracie idolotry. FYI you do not see too many gracies fighting againts japanese judoka, do you? and by the way, the throw kimura performed on helio, could have broken helio's legs, as an option, but since Judoka are Honorable, that option was off the table...
franciscoreatas11 3 months ago
@MrPotatoesLatkie Keep on with the gracie idolotry. FYI you do not see too many gracies fighting againts japanese judoka, do you? and by the way, the throw kimura performed on helio, could have broken helio's legs, as an option, but since Judoka are Honorable, that option was off the table...
So the match could have ended in 5 seconds...
franciscoreatas11 3 months ago
@MrPotatoesLatkie Keep on with the gracie idolotry. you do not see too many gracies fighting againts japanese judoka, do you? by the way, the throw kimura performed on helio, could have broken helio's legs,but since Judoka are Honorable, that option was off the table.The match could have ended in 13 seconds. watch the video, the position at 13 seconds is critical. If you, instead of reaping the leg, lock it to the ground with all of your weight+ your opponents, then reap, the leg will break
franciscoreatas11 3 months ago
@franciscoreatas11 Your comments only prove that Kimura was a better grappler than Helio and, nowhere did I argue any different. I only inferred that your anti-Gracie and, BJJ stance isn't as strong as you'd like it to be because, if Helio was such a slouch, he would have been beaten nearly as bad against Kato, as he was against Kimura. But, his record against the 5th Dan was 1-0-1. Not bad for a middle aged slouch.
If you think that's idolatry, you're lost in your own rhetoric.
MrPotatoesLatkie 3 months ago
@MrPotatoesLatkie First of all, great grammar. Second what I am saying is that brazilian gay jitsu is diluted Judo..that is it. brazilian did not invent anything, nor they modified, or improved the ground game.
The Russians never discredit Judo, in fact most Sambo players in Rusia start with Judo. You should find a Judo gym and try to learn the science and art of Samurai Jujitsu through Judo..
franciscoreatas11 3 months ago 4
@franciscoreatas11 Thanks. BJJ is a focus on what the Japanese call Newaza and, they seem to rely more on technique in getting out from under someone. I've watched Judo matches and, the coaches always promote explosive bridges to get the opponent off, or powerful leverage based movements. In BJJ, I've seem little of that. They do more side to side hip movements. That would be a big difference. Judokas also like to turtle and, give up their backs, something not done in BJJ.
MrPotatoesLatkie 3 months ago
So they did change some things. The object of the original jiu-jitsu was for self-defense. They further developed it my taking on challenge matches. So it's different. Judo goes for a throw and, if needed, a quick submission, whereas BJJ has a more patient, strategic game on the ground.
MrPotatoesLatkie 3 months ago
@MrPotatoesLatkie It depends wether the Judo club concentrates on Competion or quasi-Judo combat/fight club. I am learning Judo from 2 sources (both originated from the same Sensei at Rendokan of Tucson).One concentrates on the beauty of throws,classical ground game, and self defense aspects of Judo; the other on ground game and maybe 7-10 throws (Tucson Dojo under Steve Owens and Rainy Martinez Mitt and Matts).Rainy always yells at me for not switching my hips and laying flat on my back
franciscoreatas11 3 months ago
taijitsu rules all,ground and feet
itziBLACKOUTv1 5 months ago
Sick O soto gari
siaosiaochin 5 months ago
this is proof that bjj does not exist !
if bjj rules the ground then why did gracie lose on the ground?
face it jiu jitsu is the only true martial art , not judo or bjj
alicongo 5 months ago
@alicongo the ignorance of your comment is astounding, these two are competing which proves both arts exist, judo is a variation of jujitsu , Brazilian JIU-jitsu is a variation of Judo
HoratioGracie 3 months ago
this is silly. judo and jujutsu are the same thing. judo is learning the techniques to practice and for non lethal activities. jujutsu is using those techniques to attack or killing and for use on the battlefield.
MacEwan1220 5 months ago
Remember in judo class, where you should do technique and not use strength to take your opponents down? Now what if i added strength to it? The fight would have end it alot sooner with or without mats.
OVERCAPITALIZE 6 months ago
I played judo and bjj , both are great!
abdoulshmit 6 months ago
Or maybe you can do just Classic Jujustu...(Judo and Bjj derives from that and it rules the ground and also the feet)
Basilisks82 6 months ago
Eric - I love both martial arts. I do judo and bjj. Your mom does too. She's my training partner. She taps me her mouth. Blow tap *taps mat*
bloodline321 6 months ago
in the translation it says there wasn't a bad intention to hurt helio. kimura's head lock was so hard that helio's ears started to bleed. kimura loosend the lock and said are you ok to helio.
Judo and brazillian jujutsu are really similar. the only difference is judo guys train more from standing and bjj guys start from the knees.
they both respect each other very well. It is total nonsense to be saying witch style is better for fighting.
and please change the tile to judo vs. Bjj
kenseisato1989 6 months ago
yo creo que siempre gana el hombre por encima del arte marcial que practique
el esfuerzo y la perseverancia harán que sea un mejor practicante marcial que uno que no hace nada de nada y pretende que la teoría del arte le resuelva la lucha
morfeommv 6 months ago
Isso é a prova incontestável que o BJJ nada mais é que JUDÔ, Mitsuo Maeda que era 4º DAN DE JUDÔ passou para a familia Gracie o que aprendeu com Jigoro Kano. Uma arte valorizou mais a parte educativa e esportiva da Arte Marcial (o Judô) e o Jiu Jitsu valorizou mais a luta de chão, porém são iguais, nomes foram trocados para ficar mais fácil memorizar os golpes no Brasil, mas todos os golpes de Jiu-jitsu são do KATA DO JUDÔ. O Sankaku-jime,(triângulo), Juji-gatame (arm-lock), etc...
THEREIS1968 6 months ago
well kimura was just stronger :S.But both martial arts are good :)
mocevice 7 months ago
@Ajjap2 Kimura was the top dog back then. Much props to him.
bloodline321 7 months ago
hahaha penis is judo n bjj, cuz dey both suck monkey balls street fight is real, not these wana bes shit ass bitch arts
camrigirls 7 months ago
hahaha penis is judo n bjj, cuz dey both suck monkey balls
camrigirls 7 months ago
i wnt penis
camrigirls 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
wrong title, actually judo is jujutsu, it was ju jutsu which mean gentle art, then Mr kano he changed to gentle way judo and he took off the leg locks and some dangerous locks in order be more usefull, but almost generation of kodokan who was all of them judoka they were also professional in jujutsu, and thats what Mitsuyo maeda who went to brazil and teach gracie family , he was 4dan judo, actual judo changed so much thats why jujutsu become famous, but that time all know it well,
marichalallal 7 months ago
wrong title, actually judo is jujutsu, it was ju jutsu which mean gentle art, then Mr kano he changed to gentle way judo and he took off the leg locks and some dangerous locks in order be more usefull, but almost generation of kodokan who was all of them judoka they were also professional in jujutsu, and thats what Mitsuyo maeda who went to brazil and teach gracie family , he wass 4dan judo, actual judo changed so much thats why jujutsu become famous, but that time all know it well,
marichalallal 7 months ago
On last thing, when you are training in your gay-jitsu gym, and they tell you that the reason you start from the knees is because all fights end up in the ground...Get up and tell them that they are full of shit. When you are slammed into hard concrete, the only thing you that is going to end up in the ground in your face on the pavement....
franciscoreatas11 7 months ago
I just don't get this gracie idolotry and bjj fantacies...I repeat, I am a begineer, and I must tell you, I have not seen a single technique in bjj that I have not seen in Judo.. The gracies did not invent shit. It is insulting to say that they were able to develop or change something that the Japanese Samurai perfected 2 centuries... Judo is the true heir of the Samurai Killing art, known as JuJutsu...
franciscoreatas11 7 months ago
@franciscoreatas11 Gracie Jujitsu = marketing , traditional Japanese old school jujitsu is a dying art,look up Dan Zanryu Jujitsu.
ElZappata 7 months ago
Looks like a male lion angrily going at a hyena!
mjantube 7 months ago
I have trained at 3 martial arts gyms that have both Judo and BJJ. I prefer to do Judo always because BJJ attracts fight STARTERS, arrogant punks, people interested in bullying and getting in fights at bars, drunks, drug users and even drug dealers. BJJ has NO focus on character development (like Judo). Just look at the attitude of this "Bloodline321" dude. He's a good example of the kind I'm talking about.
vincentnolajan 7 months ago
If a person wants to fight in the ring (UFC, etc), it is better to train BJJ (or just Judo matwork) than competition Judo. However, Judo is a better self defense on the street because you can dispense with multiple attackers and throw someone to retrieve your weapon. BJJ is only effective for a fight againt ONE UNARMED individual.
vincentnolajan 7 months ago
ITS NOT ABOUT THE ART ITS ABOUT THE PERSON WHO EXECUTES IT BETTER BJJ IS DEVELOPED IN A VERY SIMILAR WAY AS JUDO BUT MASTER HELIO GRACIE WAS NOT AS PHYSICALLY STRONG OR BIG SO HE DEVELOPED A WAY TO IMPLEMENT FORCE THROUGH LEVERAGE JUJITSU IS MORE TECNICAL JUDO IS A BIT MORE BRUTE AND IN YOUR FACE AND BASED ON THROWS AND DOMINATING THE POSITION . THATS THE WAY I SEE IT I HOPE I LEARN BOTH ARTS IM A BIG YOSHIDA AND GRACIE FAN
LION0410 8 months ago
@bloodline321 you dont know what your talking about so shutup
ColeYounger88 8 months ago
Newaza judo is not as good as bjj. Fact. Sorry.
bloodline321 8 months ago
@bloodline321 BJJ is newaza judo (with some tecniques Judokas don't really practice anymore since they are illegal in competition). BJJ trains almost solely on that groundwork, so they are naturally going to get better faster on their groundwork than a Judoka who trains mostly on throwing (because one good throw wins a match). BJJ didn't invent their techniques. It all comes from techniques they learned from the Japanese.
vincentnolajan 7 months ago
@bloodline321 yea and bjj throws are not as good as judo throws.Fact. thats why the best thing to do is learn both
dreamfuelz 5 months ago
youtube.com/watch?v=J0_Zxm0leBs
inrusi 8 months ago
(Funny how my response post disapear.)
@asimmiami1
Resorting to personal attacks now huh?
Where do I say that I actual think you believe Helio invented the arm lock or triangle?
Please dont put words in my mouth.
The emphasis on newaza happend early in Judo history even befor the term Kosen
was used.
fyi I do "jiu-jitsu". I just dont buy the Gracie's history.
1NX9 8 months ago
@1NX9 The Gracies fictional history is designed to make them the most money.
vincentnolajan 7 months ago
@ jiujitsuclub helio beat kato, 2nd only to kimura. When Helio beat him, he moved up and took that spot. Kimura #1 and Helio 2nd. Kimura was the master at that time. The things Helio accomplished was amazing. Look at MMA! AMAZING!
bloodline321 9 months ago
KIMURA SWEEP THE TATAMI WITH HELIO....
rafaelmiqui 9 months ago
I agree with bloodline. Judo guys are Hung up on something that happend long ago. Kimura was the head cheese, of course you were not going to beat him. I attend a traditional judo school and do bjj. Idiots, get over it. Martial arts are now united.
jiujitsuclub818 9 months ago
There is no mma guy that says..."dam, I wanna be the best in the world ... I think I'm gonna go to japan and learn judo" ... fuck no! they say let's learn brazilian jujitsu, wrestling, Muay Thai and boxing. judo isn't even a factor. only in japan.
bloodline321 9 months ago
The guy below is my comment an ignorant garbage bag. Bjj one the ground and judo standing. Judokas like you are idiots. Your Hung up on something that happend in the early 1900s... right now, there is no dominant judo martial artist. Without bjj, mma wouldn't be. The gracies put no holds barred on the map... put it out on the line and stepped up. Hello beat his best student... by choke out. Of course kimura was the grand master at the time... ufc champions specialize in wrestling and bjj. So fu!
bloodline321 9 months ago
@bloodline321 Shut up, you fucking moron. You don't know a god damn thing about Judo or Jiu Jitsu
khalsasikh 8 months ago
Lol i did Jiu jitsu vs Judo sometime. Its perect to train both. but the ground rules for Jiu jitsu are different then from Judo even fighting system rules Jiu jitsu ground are different from Judo they where always saying... omg u may not do that thats illigal :)
but if u can practice both it are 2 sides of the same coin
sebastiaan1979ful 9 months ago
Comment removed
1NX9 9 months ago
bloodline correct! Newaza, tachiwaza, Judo is suppose ideally suppose to be 50 50 bjj is basically 100 percent newaza, but I take my hat off to them as a judoka because of their accomplishments and development.
lallope 9 months ago
Kimura also invited Helio to his dojo to train a few of his higher ranking students.
Wish this mutual respect was reflected in MMA today.
Ryan1griffiths 9 months ago
After this match, Helio Gracie gave the name "kimura" to the reverse ude-garami arm lock which was used by Kimura Masahiko to defeat him, as a way to show respect. We all know this move as kimura now!
rallyeman16 9 months ago
i did both and i would say ju jutsu is harder to learn...
AlternativStunts 10 months ago
judo forever!!!!
jetrjos123 10 months ago
There is no such thing as BJJ. The so called gracie JJ is nothig more than diluted Judo..Ask they gracies why do they take off their Gis whenever they fight Japanese judokas..
If you have a brazilian gay jitsu dominate a Judoka, then its because the individual is more dominant, not because BJJ has better techiniques....
Find a Judo dojo that concentrates in combat/aggressive Judo. you will see the power and beauty of Judo. I wish I could find a Sambo gym, sambo is more complete
franciscoreatas11 10 months ago
@franciscoreatas11 judo doesnt compare to jiu jitsu, its a joke. They are different thoug. ones a sport one is for a fight. I train in the gracie academy in miami florida. But i had moved for a long time, and even was living in the olympic training center for judo but i would use jiu-jitsu to win. Just posted the vid, check it out. Love judo but people have to understand they are for different objectives. Even the usa olympians agree
asimmiami1 10 months ago
@asimmiami1
Gracie jujiutsu is basically old style kosen judo with a different name slapped on.
1NX9 9 months ago
@1NX9 Your completely mistaken. Kimura himself admitted in an interview that, what GM Helio Gracie was doing was a completely different style than what he practices.
asimmiami1 9 months ago
@asimmiami1
The Gracies didnt learn the finer points or techniques because Maeda held back techniques .
Rickson Gracie said in his own book they were taught basics and newaza but not the whole judo curiculum. eg The Gracie didnt learn the triangle choke until the 1960's when they got it from judokas in Brazil.
1NX9 9 months ago
@1NX9
btw theres video DVD's by Kanae Hirata on old Kosen judo over the net if your interested.
Info on passing the guard, Osaekumi, chokes etc.
1NX9 9 months ago
@1NX9 Your reply has nothing to do with what i was originally writting about, which is that Judo is a sport and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu is a fighting art.
asimmiami1 9 months ago
@asimmiami1
"Gracie Jiujitsu" is still kosen judo. This was taken up on Bullshido forum a number of years ago. Ronin69 did a good job on it as he was one of the few members who can read Japanese. Maeda was a known registered kosen judo practitioner but was sent overseas because he was abit of a maverick.
Kosen judo is still being practiced by students of Kanae Hirata. Kano consider kosen as part of kodokan just with emphasis on the ground.
1NX9 9 months ago
@1NX9 The last thing i wanted to be was one of those guys that have an argument on youtube. I will allow you to stay ignorant. bye.
asimmiami1 9 months ago
@asimmiami1
Why because Bullshido forum history hack members discredited the "Gracie Jujijutsu" myth?
Why because Japanese speaking members on Bullshido read Japanese sources and found out Maeda was a registered kosen judo ("Kano jiujitsu") practitioner under Kano?
Why because Kanae Hirata an old timer and kosen judo practitioner has old black and white footages of them doing Tons of different newaza moves (including pulling guard) ?
etc
1NX9 9 months ago
@1NX9 hahaha becuase retards like you miss the point. I have all those videos, i never denied that they knew those techniques? You think i thought GM Helio invented the arm lock or triangle? Of course he didnt. You are missing the point completely and i have lost energy and motivation to help someone realize something when they dont want to. Maybe your someone who never had the chance to learn real Jiu-Jitsu, so this is what you believe to make your self feel better. Anyways i dont care anymore.
asimmiami1 9 months ago
@asimmiami1
Wow personal insults now.
Do you actually think I thought that you believe Helio invented the arm lock or triangle? NEVER did. What wild presumptions you have.
Your the one who said "Gracie Jiu-jitsu". Which I said is really Kosen judo.
Did I say that you denied Kosen guys knew those techniques? NO I NEVER did. Your presumptions again.
btw I do train in BJJ. So you automatically presume I dont? More presumptions?
I just dont buy their history.
1NX9 9 months ago
@asimmiami1 judo is both martial art and sport, just search atemi waza so you can get an idea
dreamfuelz 5 months ago
@franciscoreatas11
asimmiami1 10 months ago
@franciscoreatas11 to funny.
asimmiami1 10 months ago
@franciscoreatas11
I totally agree.
1NX9 9 months ago
I hate all the bullshit between judo and jujitsu ... I do both. Smart up. Bjj rules the ground... judo rules the feet... combine them.
bloodline321 10 months ago 19
Competition nurtures ego. I train martial arts in order not to fight. Everyone has their own reasons for training.
mrdubcrazy 9 months ago
@bloodline321
no, Jujutsu came before this bjj bullshit. There is no difference. Those dirty brazilian monkeys took jujutsu and called it their own art. Jujutsu is judo with submissions. Jujutsu > this imposter callled bjj. Kimura proved that when he snapped Helio's arm and choked him out.
2431346 9 months ago
@bloodline321 That's because you don't know anything about Newaza Judo. You smart up.
khalsasikh 8 months ago
@khalsasikh
Agree. Check up the Kosen judo videos.
If you didnt know already. Kosen is pre WW2 judo, pre Olympic judo.
1NX9 8 months ago
@1NX9 Yup. Newaza is what I specialized in after an injury pretty much destroyed my dream of going to the Olympics. I've been to Japan and have trained with the best Judokas, including Yoshida and Sakuraba, though Sakuraba taught me catch wrestling which is another art. I even trained with Mike Swain and the great Gene Labell in the states. When I went to Brazil with some of my Japanese Newaza Judo fighters, we dominated the Brazilians. They got us very few times. They were sore losers.
khalsasikh 8 months ago 4
@khalsasikh
I'm impress! Wow
Not everyone gets a chance to train under these guys.
1NX9 8 months ago
@khalsasikh Damn, you should write a book as it sounds too good to keep to yourself.
Rockmaster2112 8 months ago
@Rockmaster2112 Write THIS.
khalsasikh 8 months ago
@khalsasikh That is their specialty: "Sore-losing" (plus a good bit of "arrogance").
vincentnolajan 7 months ago
@vincentnolajan Yes, that is very, very true. The one thing I appreciate most about learning Judo and great Newaza techniques from going to Japan and even learning in the states is the DISCIPLINE! Brazilians as a whole are very undisciplined, and the Gracies are no exception. I sparred against a very well known and revered Brazilian black belt, and I choked him twice into unconciousness. The rest of the time we fought to a draw. I thought I was gonna get shot. I left Brazil soon after.
khalsasikh 7 months ago
Your wrong my friend judo comes from Ju jutsu so does bjj the thing is bjj and judo are sports they are not meant to kill people @bloodline321
eza1 8 months ago
@bloodline321 psh lies
aidenhoshi 8 months ago
@bloodline321 well said. originally they were one art anyways, it's best to study them both.
moronsgetout 8 months ago
@bloodline321 But Helio still got owned on the ground with his Gracie Jiu Jitsu.
BoUnC3r 7 months ago
@bloodline321 Looks to me like Kimura ruled the ground and the feet on this one! Just hard to beat the roots of the thing the Gracies learned. No disrespect, though. But Kimura really dominated Helio. I've never seen this before!
AJJAP2 7 months ago
Judo comes from jujitsu...Bjj comes from judo...so i agree with you 100% bloodline321, all the bullshit that people spew, saying one is better then the other is just nonsense...all three are the same art, but with different focus...but i will say one thing in re-guard to your comment..JJ and Bjj may have the advantage in ground work over judo, but they far from rule it. if you train old style, Dr.kono style judo then judo has a shocking amount of ground game and isn't to be taken lightly. :)
REDSAMURAI307 7 months ago
Amen brotha! xD
GuamKomudo 6 months ago
@bloodline321 Kodokan Judo, rules the ground and the feet. "BJJ" is Judo ne-waza. Get over it.
EricRyanCronin 6 months ago
@bloodline321 Judo is the Parent of BJJ
moxygen2 5 months ago 4
@moxygen2 Its the other way around. Jiu Jitsu is the parent of Judo. Judo was created so that the deadly combat moves were taken out in order to be practiced as competitive sport as you now see in the Olympics. Also many other Japanese martial arts originated from Jiu Jitsu such as Karate.
usukdirectt 2 months ago
@bloodline321 Bjj rules the ground...that's why Helio lost against Masahiko on the ground. I just think that's odd
XHesterXPrynnX 4 months ago
@bloodline321 exactly, and if not just for sport learn more strikimg than atemi
HoratioGracie 3 months ago
Private message, exchange numbers or somthing. stop flirting on the comments
Great video! Kimura should have beat him much faster
atexas512 10 months ago
@atexas512 Well, the mats prevented Kimura from knocking out Helio with his throws, so if there were no mats it would have ended sooner.
Rockmaster2112 10 months ago 11
@Rockmaster2112 if both men had been equal weight your right it would of ended sooner gracie style!the jap was a lot stronger and bigger,helio lasted over 20mins the longest fight the kimura ever had and was the world champion at the time,was so blown away with the little guy he asked him to teach in this dojo's in japan,first time he ever ask a non jap.All the best fighters use BJJ why? because it works!
MrNupit 8 months ago
@MrNupit " The gong rang. Helio grabbed me in both lapels, and attacked me with O-soto-gari and Kouchi-gari. But they did not move me at all. Now it's my turn. I blew him away up in the air by O-uchi-gari, Harai-goshi, Uchimata, Ippon-seoi." While I do agree with you that the match would have gone differently, Helio was not able to get Kimura to the ground because his technique was not as good as Kimura's. Kimura fought tons of people who were just as big as he was, but no one was ever...
Rockmaster2112 8 months ago
@MrNupit ...to get him down. It's not Helio's fault, he was just going against a guy who had the base of a tree trunk. If anything Helio survived better than most, for which he should be commended. This whole thing about judo vs bjj has nothing to do with this fight. It's just Kimura vs Gracie. Kimura won, does that say that judo is better than bjj. No. If Gracie won, does that say bjj is better. No. What it says is that Kimura came more prepared physically and technically between the two.
Rockmaster2112 8 months ago
@MrNupit Goofball: It was Helio who said size doesn't matter, and the Gracies have always maintained that about size. By the way, the jiujitsu the Gracies know was taught by a Japanese Judo master. Their groundwork is all Judo groundwork (with some techniques no longer legal in competition Judo). BJJ focuses on almost only the matwork, so a person training in BJJ is naturally going to become better at matwork faster than a Judoka who trains mostly on throwing techniques.
vincentnolajan 7 months ago
@MrNupit Kimura was the superior technician standing and on the ground, so since size doesn't matter (as Helio maintains), Kimura would have spanked him regardless of who was bigger. The amount of time he lasted doesn't mean much. Have you ever trained in ANY martial art ever!?
vincentnolajan 7 months ago
@Rockmaster2112 You need to SMART UP.
Judo is a SPORT and BJJ is also a SPORT. BJJ can be classified as BASICALLY JUST JUDO. No need to combine them. They are two fighting sports that deals with 98% on the ground. Whats there to combine?
slouttop 6 months ago
@slouttop ...I'm not sure if I said anything about combining them, but then again my comments are 3 months old. I was just talking about how Kimura won fair and square because he was better, despite people talking about size difference.
Rockmaster2112 6 months ago
@Rockmaster2112 true my friend
balgham1 4 months ago
The only thing this and other similar videos prove and should ever aim at proving is that there are fighters/masters which are better than others. Not that one martial art is better than the other, not that fighters/masters from one nation are better than others, not that one school is better than the other. A well-landed boxing punch that lands you motionless on the ground will do the job just as well as the quickest most effective choke you could possibly apply to ones neck.
piffs 11 months ago
@insanedalek you're extremely cocky, I can answer with your exact same words to your previous comments and It'd be as valid as you're trying to make it look right now to my comment, but you're just evading the facts; my father was a police for 30 years, so I know LOTS AND LOTS of policemen, my two best friends and a cousin of mine are in the army, and I got another cousin in the marines... I workout and practice martial arts stuff with one of my soldier friends, so I know what I'm talking about
Tseriakh 11 months ago
@insanedalek what techniques? most police officers are fat and out of shape, and soldiers do not specialize on martial arts, though they learn them, they rarely excel
Tseriakh 11 months ago
@insanedalek I'd like to see any police or soldier fight Antonio Rodrigo or heck, even Damien Maia despite his size.
Tseriakh 11 months ago
its amazing how in america this fight really meant nothing but in japan and brazil, this was probably one of the most important fights in history.
Thydeepestfear 11 months ago
@insanedalek You speak against my grammatical errors and spelling mistakes when your make some yourself. I merely pointed out facts to pick apart your arguments against brazilian jujitsu as a legitimate martial art. You responded by calling me stupid multiple times, throwing at me a bunch of anti-american stereotypes, and stating biased opinions. You sure proved your logical and mathematical genius! You are just a stupid troll who doesn't know how to state your arguments well. ._.
CarboneraCarlos 11 months ago
Soooo to iterate point two! CALL BJJ what you will.... IT IS still and EFFECTIVE self defense form, albeit exaggerated or not... and I thought I should point out that they teach many things in Gracie Jiu Jitsu that they dont allow in Judo.... such as knee bars and leglocks... and spine locks. and according to your logic if Gracie Jiu Jitsu is ripping off Judo because they derive and improvised many of the techniques from there.... then wont that make Judo a ripoff of Tenjin Shinyo Ryu?
CarboneraCarlos 11 months ago
@insanedalek and the US MARINE CORPS incorporate many of the techniques found in Gracie Jiu Jitsu into their hand to hand combat system. get your shit straight. and dont retaliate with some childish anti american bullshit...
2) BJJ, or Kodokan Judo (Kano Jiu Jitsu) Ripoff or whatever it is you want to make of it is still a VERY EFFECTIVE self defense system.... in a street fight YOU WILL be TAKEN DOWN annd CHOKED.... or get Caught in a leg lock.. arm lock... knee bar... arm bar
CarboneraCarlos 11 months ago
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@insanedalek fist of all I think there are two things I should point out to you!:
1) roughly speaking 80 % of fights actually end up on the ground, but for old time sakes lets pretend that it is only 60% as you say.... pretty much you are saying that 1 out of every 2 fight you get ends up in the ground... so thats still pretty high! and what is this garbage you are spouoting about Soldiers and Police? The US Army Rangers teach Gracie Jiu Jitsu to their soldiers for their hand to hand combat.
CarboneraCarlos 11 months ago
@insanedalek fist of all I think there are two things I should point out to you!:
1) roughly speaking 80 % of fights actually end up on the ground, but for old time sakes lets pretend that it is only 60% as you say.... pretty much you are saying that 1 out of every 2 fight you get ends up in the ground... so thats still pretty high! and what is this garbage you are spouoting about Soldiers and Police? The US Army Rangers teach Gracie Jiu Jitsu to their soldiers for their hand to hand combat.
CarboneraCarlos 11 months ago
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CarboneraCarlos 11 months ago
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CarboneraCarlos 11 months ago
@insanedalek The only person lying here is you. Every one knows Bjj is NOT jijutsu the gracies themselves not only admit but emphasise this over and over again. Bjj involves less strength than jijutsu cuz the gracie who it was introduced to was very physically weak and he adopted it to suit his body type. Thats why even woman can use BJJ. Stop acting like u know something.
shubroto81 11 months ago
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elbowjoint1 11 months ago
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elbowjoint1 11 months ago
BJJ is overheated
bvim75 1 year ago
@insanedalek I see. Thanks. I must admit, the thought of going to ground as quick as you can does seem dubious if there's a load of guys waiting to do a tap dance routine on your head. yes, I know about the kano Jujitsu, I have an old book from 1920's of that title. Interesting stuff.
moominpic 1 year ago
@insanedalek I can't argue about the efficacy of BJJ over Judo because i don't know enough about either, but considering Judo is Jujitsu with less techniques, does it make BJJ lesser because it has 'less techniques'?
moominpic 1 year ago
@insanedalek
what means bjj?
jin54363 1 year ago
@jin54363 It means "Brazilian Ju-Jitsu". Basically, Judo was known as "Kano Jujitsu" in the early days (being developed from Ju-jitsu) and it was a Kodokan Judo master who taught the Gracies in Brazil. They developed their own style based on the groundwork of Judo and other bits they found useful.
moominpic 1 year ago
@insanedalek I have one question for you really: what is your problem? Is it wrong to learn martial arts and to create your own style? Because that is what they did. Stop crying lmao.
wobEh 1 year ago
@insanedalek 3 things:
1) Define a REAL fight. Why would soldiers know what a real fight is when they use weapons? Why would the Police know what a REAL fight is when they can use stun guns, sticks, call for back up, etc..? What is a REAL fight sir?
2) Jujutsu is the roots of Judo AND Bjj. The Gracie were taught Jujutsu and motherfucking modified it into their own style. Stop hating you punk ass fool, it makes you look UBER stupid.
3) Are you capable of doing anything the Gracies have done? Nope
wobEh 1 year ago
@insanedalek thank u the gracies turned judo into money they dont care about martial arts
noobfilmdirector 1 year ago
@insanedalek replying to the first point: if law enforcement and military say its trash, then why do they train in BJJ/Gracie Jiu Jitsu or ask the Gracies to train them??
replying to the second point: Esai Maeda taught Jiu Jitsu to the Gracies starting in 1915. This means they were ranked by the Japanese Grand Master so that they were capable of teaching as well. Nothing was stolen. The word Jujutsu and JiuJitsu are and mean the same, these words were anomalous.
usukdirectt 1 year ago
@insanedalek I agree with ya, but I feel like 75 percent of fights go on ground in my perspective...
mikeymarshful 1 year ago
@insanedalek
You seem to like proving people wrong, dont you!
How about you prove yourself wrong for a change?
SkemeKOS 1 year ago
@insanedalek
What do the fucking police know about fighting?
Id MUCH rather take the word of a Gracie, who do NOTHING but fight than a policeman.
Police get everything wrong.
"BJJ is NOT jujutsu" - No shit! Its Brazilian JIU JITSU lmfao!!!
Please, get a clue before talking shit, my friend. :)
SkemeKOS 1 year ago
@SkemeKOS Really? You must be shitting me my friend... If not going after criminals don't include fighting, then they must have an easier job than what people would think.
mikeymarshful 1 year ago
@mikeymarshful
yes, really.
police dont know shit about fighting.
and anyway, whenever a policeman gets into a "fight" with a criminal, the first thing he thinks about doing is taking him down.
SkemeKOS 1 year ago
@SkemeKOS Meh... Whatever. But if they used to be in the military that's a different thing.
mikeymarshful 1 year ago
@mikeymarshful
Well yeah.
But still, Id rather take the word of a Gracie than a cop or military guy.
SkemeKOS 1 year ago
@insanedalek The Canadian Army told you that it hates the concept of Brazilian Jujitsu?
EatTinker 1 year ago
@insanedalek Daleks music is terrible. if your a fan, it makes sense that your some bitter cunt shitting on a family that made martial arts mainstream.
honestly, you should be hating on strip mall karate dojo's, their the ones who really extort money in the names of martial arts. the gracies might do it, but at least BJJ is applicable. find me one guy in MMA with a Tiger-Schulman Karate blackbelt
BTW police and soldiers fight with guns, you fuckin dildo.
BfuckinC 1 year ago
@insanedalek Gracies didn't invent anything, they do Ne waza but with different names!!!
Lenjou 1 year ago
@insanedalek excellent answer, it couldn't be more realistic, i totally agree!!!
Lenjou 1 year ago
I train BJJ but am starting at the local judo and kickboxing club this sunday to diversify my skills a little. I think the ultimate system lies in a combination of many martial arts, whereby you pick and chose the parts of each that work for you.
jmcaulay11981 1 year ago
@jmcaulay11981 its called MMA
BfuckinC 1 year ago
I agree about the shameless marketing :)
So what if 60% of fights go to the ground. 95% of fights you can get someone to the ground. And if you are trained in groundwork, you instantly are a a massive advantage once you get the fight there.
One thing the Gracies don't address is where you are facing more than one attacker (a common situation on the "street" that they claim to have invented the perfect system for).
jmcaulay11981 1 year ago
@jmcaulay11981 you agree with the shameless Marketin Is worked Didnt it.. The Gracies won the first Ultimate Fighting Championship Enough Said.
omen25thp 1 year ago
@insanedalek 1) US military use it. (Marines and Army Rangers included). Google Army rangers train jiujitsu. I have even read news about police officers trained it and introduced it to other officers because it is useful. So I have no idea where you came up with police and soilders say it is trash.
2) BJJ is a different type of Traditional Jap JiuJitsu. It's not a rip off. It's modified and used vey differently. exmaple: Judo thought groundwork is not important, BJJ is all about ground.
YiuYeung 1 year ago
@YiuYeung It's like chinese invented gun powder and then someone else invented the gun. It's basically used in a very different way, not a ripoff. And many moves in BJJ were modified and changed.
YiuYeung 1 year ago
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@YiuYeung us army < canadian army, canadian army hates the concept of bjj. if your army is so much better, why was canada the strongest allied army in ww1, advanced farthest on d-day and the army americans copied when they claim to have found a way past chemical warfare even though canadians did the same thing earlier but without gas masks. america relies on the quantity of their army while canada uses quality
insanedalek 1 year ago
@YiuYeung Finaly someone who has an idea On this subject :)
omen25thp 1 year ago
@YiuYeung I'm not sure if the marines use it, as they developed MCMAP. The same applies to most US military branches. Parts are certainly taken from bjj, as well as other martial arts, including but not limited to: wushu, boxing, and some wrestling. Although i do know that US cops use it, but at the same time japanese cops train in judo. It's really a matter of mixing to find what suits the purposes best.
mycroftOwns 1 year ago
@YiuYeung judo was tought to the us army before bjj or jujitsu theodore roosevelt was even given lessons by karo
noobfilmdirector 1 year ago
@insanedalek I totally agree! BJJ is developed from judo and is a shamelsss franchise with financial gain being it's core ethos! I mean come on 'GRACIE UNIVERSITY'
BJJ sucks!!
mrdubcrazy 1 year ago
it's all just grappling
gibranmaciel 1 year ago 2
@insanedalek
Let's roll. Your style vs my ripped off jiu-jitsu.
TheGermayn 1 year ago
All i have to say is, if judo is so awesome, where are all the judo guys in ADCC? Grapplers quest? NAGA? Exactly.
AVI4 1 year ago
judo is the best sport ever!!!!!
miketysongerard 1 year ago 6
@insanedalek your stupid,eh... every "bjj" move also has a japanese name, what does that tell you? i think it tells you that every single move in gracie or brazillian jj was already invented does it not?
chilidog1001 1 year ago
@chilidog1001 your pretty stupid considering rubber gaurd was actually became used and found in new york. also judo is a martial art, = made to look pretty, jui jitsu is (such as bjj) street fighting skill. why did jui jitsu get incorporated into the military and the police rather than judo, why do judo fighters in ufc, wec, strikeforce, get there ass's kicked and jui jitsu everytime. trying to defend judo is beating a dead horse. and i train with a combative trainer from army, he loves it
speedthorn 1 year ago
@speedthorn okay you got the rubber guard? woah great contribution bjj has made!!! please explain how jiu jitsu isn't a martial art and a street fighting skill? in fact in japan they put jj fighters against judokas and 12 out of 15 went to judo and there are no judo fighters in any mma organization with the exception of karo parisiyan who actually dominated the ufc with his throws and submissions. lastly the only reason the army uses graciejj is because they became famous through small fights
chilidog1001 1 year ago
@insanedalek you dont know shit and would get spanked. plus whatever you think police and soldiers say doesn't mean shit. those guys train BJJ all the time. where do your stats come from by the way? are you saying that their method of ground fighting is ineffective regardless of the orgins? who are you?
spentronic 1 year ago
This is SAMURAI!
rubenpaz2006 1 year ago
@insanedalek BJJ is still good. That's what I'd like to point out.
xAristaicx 1 year ago
Old judo newaza
watch?v=Y1pZkv1trEI
awnroeg12 1 year ago
@awnroeg12 is not old is judo newaza is judo and will be forever
elpcon 1 year ago
@insanedalek
They were taught the style by Maeda and, did with it what they wanted after he left. Maeda taught them what he had learned from the Judoand, as a prize fighter . He sold it as his own. Kano took what he wanted from the various schools if JJ and, sold it as his own, giving tribute to those that came before, just as the Gracies and, Maeda did. Prior to that, all the schools of JJ modified what came before and, it became their own. That's the story of the martial arts.
MrPotatoesLatkie 1 year ago