One problem here is that although you may ask why cant you pump what ever you want into your own heat pump, people sale homes and lose them in this economy. So what you created is a potential bomb waiting on the innocent tech because you altered the equipment and never flagged it that way as a warning. Second, I believe you stated the unit was a few year old so two years is left on the compressor in a unit you altered. Are you going to void your warranty and tell them if it blows? Doubt it.
@GeorgiaMGT And, if you have a Honda Civic Natural Gas model, and some kids steal it for a joy ride! After they crash, the EMTs, the fire dept crew and the news cameramen, will all be killed in a massive fireball??
Look up NGV..
A natural gas vehicle or NGV is an alternative fuel vehicle that uses compressed natural gas (CNG) or liquefied natural gas (LNG)..
@GeorgiaMGT Actually my unit is very clearly labeled "WARNING CHARGED WITH 6LBS R290 PROPANE." I have mentioned that in these comments before, so please read before you accuse. As for a bomb, nonsense! A bomb requires an oxidant, period.
To boot, I have 10 GALLONS of gasoline, 40lbs of propane, Acetylene, Oxygen, and several gallons of other volatile substances stored in MY GARAGE!!!! How on earth do I continue to survive? I even have an infinite supply of NG piped into my house!!
@BrainchildsLab It's funny how people are. Those that don't know any better hear the word "propane" and they automatically panic. "Omg it's going to explode" etc. Like you mentioned there is some very basic chemistry for combustion (oxygen), let alone a "bomb".
Sounds like a fun garage you got. I opted for an oxy-propane as opposed to oxy-acetylene for a heating/brazing torch. You get a lot more BTUs for a lot less money :)
@BrainchildsLab Just because you labeled it as containing propane does not make it legal.
That is why it is use only in industrial applications. If your local mechanical authority knew you were doing this you would be jailed no questions asked.
Personally I think u need just to getyour ass kicked so bad you would never endanger the health and safety of the general public dick weed,
BTW I love the part about charging to a 250 head pressure.hahahahahahahahah PSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH
@BrainchildsLab . That was all I needed to say. Been a HVAC tech and company owner for 30 years and an Air Force refrigeration tech before that. You are dangerous.
@GeorgiaMGT How many ounces of propane are in that those little propane tanks you buy at Ace hardware, and then store in your basement??
Have to informed everyone who comes into your home, that they risk being blown into the attic (and beyond), when your house detonates??
Since propane is heavier than air, a slow leak will accumulate in your basement, until there is a good fuel-air mix and a little spark.. Static electricity? heating system comes on?? BOOM!!
@Xringer What is your point? Your generalization is crazy. We are specifically talking about an altered piece of equipment. And I dont have a basement and I wouldn't be stupid enough to tore gas or propane there if I did.
I am not totally against this guy doing this, he seems well versed on exactly how refrigeration works and is taking safety into consideration. My only negative thought is the question of the purity of the propane he is using and the thought that "just anyone" who sees this video will attempt to do the same thing, without the same understanding of exactly what it is they are dealing with. I for see no major concern of system damage, propane is friendly. I worry a little for the potential of fire.
@camry6 I'm glad you aren't 'against' me for doing whatever I want to my own heatpump. Purity of the gas is a good idea! Coleman makes fine product. As for the fictional "just anyone" seeing this vid and "getting into trouble"...maybe we should ban videos like mine to make sure these poor souls don't do themselves in?
@BrainchildsLab haha, I am using propane in my car for the A/C, it works great! Propane is still used in the EU in a lot of refrigeration equipment. Oil refineries use propane in their refrigeration systems to liquify natural gas and propane, although all of the equipment is out in the open air in case of leaks. Just throw a propane detector in your duct work, it will alarm at the slightest leak. It really isn't that unsafe to use in a hermetic system.
@ojbdemaria Propane is a *very good* carrier of compressor oil. It is common knowledge that Propane as a refrigerant *extends* longevity of the system several times over. What's going to last longer in your system; bleach (r22) or oil (r290)?
@BrainchildsLab : sorry, my english is not very good, but as propane can carrier the oil, it means that the oil level in the compressor can be modified a lot in transient running as defrost part for example. This can create a drop of the oil level in the compressor, then break it.
In another way, i don't really understand your last question.
I am an ac tech. If I tried to repair a leak with my torches I would be blown across the yard. If I was still alive I would walk to my van get my gun and shoot you. How safe is propane now.
@superheat25 How would you be blown across the yard? Maybe a small leak could develop that would be like a Bic lighter. The ONLY way an explosion could happen is if the system were ALSO loaded with O2 and AT the stoichiometric ratio AND IGNITED. A "rapid conflagration" COULD occur if the system leaked out into a contained space, but the ethyl mercaptan odor would be so severe that you would vomit before lighting your Marlboro Light. Death by gunshot appears to be the largest risk.
@superheat25 Wow, I know very little about brazing copper on ACs, but before doing a DIY repair on a mini-split, I knew to remove any refrigerant and run nitrogen inside the system while doing the repair..
I didn't have enough nitrogen, so I used CO2 as a purge gas , which is cheaper and works just as well. Google "Sanyo 24KHS72 Mini-Split DIY REPAIR project"..
THANK YOU!!!!!!! This works better then the original r410a. My heat pump is only drawing 7 amps now instead of 9. The heat comming out is 3 deg. warmer then before with less power draw. Propane tho......Hmm. bomb?
@ryobie1 A bomb requires an oxidant. It would require a very 'special' leak in your system with an exact room size, a source of ignition and an exact O2 level to achieve the stoichiometric ratio required for an 'explosion'. If you are worried about an unstable hydrocarbon, it is the gasoline in your car. VERY dangerous and easily 10,000x more explosive than 6lbs of propane.
@kd5bwp This is probably true, but propane (and yeah butane) are just better refrigerants - so it works. My pump and system are happy, but I'd recommend that anyone doing this use the Coleman green bottle propane which is (necessarily) suited for Coleman's indoor catalytic heaters (and a LOT cheaper than Dupont's fluorinated stuff). If the green bottles weren't pure, Boyscouts would be dying all the time.
I think high pressure flammable gas in the living space is a bad idea. Natural and propane in household appliances is reduced in pressure by a regulator to about 12lb before it enters the house. You are also deviating from industry standard, which is always a bad idea and usually causes problems down the road. DIY guys never get that. The reason r-22 is being phased out is not because of global warming, it's because dupont lost their patent.
@guitpicky A gas leak is a gas leak, period. "High pressure" of a whopping 180lbs does not make it any more or less dangerous. The stoichiometric ratio rules.
To boot, my system has a LIMITED charge whereas the gas line is infinite.
@sharbelzesy HVAC guys have a lot of overhead, they don't work cheap. It case you haven't heard about it yet, money is tight these days.
Propane isn't harmful to the ozone layer etc, so it's okay for DIYers to experiment with their broken AC units.
Once all that harmful gas has escaped, why pay someone to pump it back in? Why take the risk?
Using that R22&etc is taking a big risk.. Odds are, more than half the refrigerant in small appliances is going to end up in the atmosphere some day..
then you guys pay $200 for the gas i would try this for fun and see if it works i dont think it is that dangerous as there is no air present for the fuel to consume and start a fire if that portable heatpump that i have runs out of gas and i fix the leak i would try this for fun
@brent12061980 how will it ignite the gas when there is no oxygen for the fire? duh you need fuel+oxygen+heat=fire you have heat and fuel but no air to consume
At first I read the title and saw the crazy hair and I was a little suspicious... but then I was like hey, this guy is smart and knows what he is talking about!!
Man I have been doing A/C repair since I was 18, and self taught, but I just learned something new. If propane is so ozone friendly, why can't we just use that instead of this stupid R410A crap that they switched to, there must be a reason, and maybe my comment below this one could be the reason why.
@WinMOD42 You can get a vacuum pump at Harbor Freight for less than $100.00. It may not last too long but it would be good for a job or two. A good vacuum pump can be obtained for about $170.00. 1.5 CFM that is.
@HCVguy93 I have seen guys buy those. They are junk and none of them were ever happy with it. I dont think they pull down past 1000 microns. Now you still need a set of manifold gauges and a micrometer (add at least another $200).
You mean a descent pump runs $170. I have a good pump and it was $400 (6CFM Yellow Jacket) and a Mastercool Micrometer and Yellow Jacket Brute Gauges. All together a total of $700.
@WinMOD42 Yeah, I was actually talking about a 1.5 CFM Robinair. That is pretty pricey since you got all high end equipment. I can use Yellow Jacket Series 41 manifold gauges, and they would work fine for me. I'm not actually a service tech yet, but I will be soon.
@HCVguy93 I regret buying the Brute set. They are nice because they have a 4th 3/8 hose which rips a better vacuum but my next set will just be the 41's again. The pumps paid for itself. I've done about 30 change outs with it so far, going from r-22 to 410a but using the old line set. Horrible idea, I know. But thats how this company im subcontracting sells the jobs. I use nitro and haven't had 1 call back. The other guy doesnt use a micromenter or nitro and gets call backs on 5 out of 10.
@WinMOD42 OK thanks for sharing that. I have actually looked into the Brute set, then the Titan manifold, and I decided on the Series 41 manifold with 60'' Plus ll hoses. I have 2 more years until I start working in the HVAC/R field, but I want to be knowledgeable and ready when I go to work. I have looked at a Yellow Jacket 8 CFM pump, and a JB Industries 7 CFM pump. I think I'll stay brand loyal and go with Yellow Jacket.
@HCVguy93 Yellow Jackets make the best pump. Good idea to go with them for a pump. Unless you'll be working on a lot of industrial sized equipment, you shouldn't need an 8cfm. 6 would be plenty for residential. If you rip a vacuum too fast, on small residential systems, it can cause the non- condensables/ moisture to freeze rather than vaporizes off. I wouldn't mind the Titans. A friend had those and they were solid.
@WinMOD42 Yeah, I will probably be doing refrigeration, residential, and commercial HVAC. Thanks for the advice, no one has ever told me that. I got my Series 41 manifold today. It is NICE!
Okay, it's spring time again! :) I'm sure that a few ACs have been turned on this year. For those of you using Propane, Inquiring hackers want to know, How's it working? 1. What refrigerant did you have before? 2. What lubricant did you add? (if any). 3. How many pounds of refrigerant did you have before? 4. How many pounds of Propane are you using now? 5. Has your power use dropped? How much? 6. Did your AC filter remove the propane odor? 7. Gas detector in basement yet? Cheers, Rich
@Xringer Still working great. You'll need to know (or compute) your systems capacity. For mine I needed about 6lbs of charge. As for the filter and propane odors...they are not related whatsoever. If there were to be a propane odor, the system is leaking indoors and that could be potentially dangerous. As with any AC system, it must be verified to be 100% leak free prior to adding any refrigerant. The easiest way to do so is to pull a vacuum and monitor the level of vacuum over time.
@BrainchildsLab Some of the research that's been done, Dropping R290 into R410A systems, seems to say that only about 40% of the rated weight is needed.
When I installed my 1st Sanyo, I tested the line-set with 400 PSI nitrogen and later took it down under 200 micron, before we released the R410A (that comes preloaded), but about 90 days later a pin hole appeared in the copper line, right above the compressor. Slowly all the R410a leaked out.
@Xringer That's a bummer. Often leaks in the 'head' develop AFTER the warranty and we're stuck with replacing the whole unit because nobody's going 'in there' to fix it. Prior to R290 (propane), my system had about 9lbs of R22; with propane I only need about 6lbs. The 'head' runs about 40% less often than it used to, and the pump is MUCH quieter. This is due to propane's lower liquid pressure and the fact that it carries the hydrocarbon oil more readily. Cheers!
@BrainchildsLab We are testing this repaired Sanyo outdoor (24k) unit with more R410A, just in case my brazing job is NG. :)
If it works with this 500 PSI stuff, it should work great with low pressure R290. But, now that I have found a cheap HAVC guy, I'll likely stick with R410A for now. He thinks propane is too risky and doesn't recommend it..
I have a 14,000 btu portable air conditioner that had a cracked joint. The crack has been repaired however the system is R-410a. Can I use propane in this system to recharge? Does the capillary tube need to be adjusted? I know it uses POE oil and is compatible with propane but the big question is the pressures using it as a drop in replacement. Never seen this done on a R-410a system. Can it be done? Around here R-410a is sold in 30lb tanks and costs more that the unit is worth.
I've heard of it being done. You'll want to put a schrader-valve fitting for charging and in case you need to pull the propane back out. Worth a try! (Don't forget the oil...)
@Xringer In addition, certain hydrocarbons can also be used as a “drop-in solution” for synthetic refrigerants. Propane (R290) and propene (R1270) have similar thermodynamic behavior to the R22. Propane is more efficient than R22.
Gree Appliances is using propane to replace R22 and R410A in new systems. R22 is a standard refrigerant, but these refrigerants make a considerable contribution to global warming as well as destroying the ozone layer.
@Xringer Yes, I did this last summer. Used it all summer and it worked great! It consumed about 8-9 amps of power to drop the temp from the intake to the output approx 20 deg F. The great part is a new unit of the same model was only able to drop the temp 18 deg F while drawing 13-14 amps. Not only did it save me $ not buying a new one but it also save a ton of electricity. The unit ran day and night keep the entire down stairs nice and cool without any issues. It was also much quieter.
I have to admit, this is a interesting video. I have read about so many refrigerants and I knew that propane was one of them. I never considered using it in a R22 system, but with R22 costing about $190 at my a/c supply store for a 30 pound tank, I may reconsider. Propane would need oxygen to burn, and because all O2 is removed from a system prior to charging, I guess it could not burn unless it leaked out. Maybe I'll try it in my friends a/c first to see how it goes.
Hi Douglas, The propane is still working excellent (actually a little too cold in here right now). If you have a leak big enough to cause any real trouble, your system would leak out entirely in <one hour and you'd be out of your house on the smell alone. If your system leaks that bad, you should know well before you'd ever add the propane....or any other refrigerant. There's no such thing as an "inert" refrigerant...that's a Dupont myth that didn't pan out so well. Cheers!
What about compressor lubricants? Which lubricants are R22 /R290 compatible? Could you just add the R290 on top of the R22? Is evacuation of R290 a problem (with explosion)? COOL hack!
@nonsquid Hi, thanks. Propane is completely compatible with both R22 and R22 compressor oils. From my research; propane is actually better at carrying the oil charge.
@BrainchildsLab An interesting note is that propane was used as substitute for by some after market companies when r 12 became bad all of a sudden. Turned the car into a grenade in a collision. Another interesting note is I remember propane being used in refrigeration along with amonia. Bad thing with amonia is it's a suffocant. Iam sure you pissed the a/c guy off. How dare you think for yourself. lol
@tmd004 "propane was used as substitute [for] 12... Turned the car into a grenade in a collision."
Can you provide ANY proof of this claim? And what about all that highly-flammable gasoline or diesel being carried around by EVERY automobile regardless of whats in the AC? The 16 oz of propane that a car AC system would hold is hardly a concern when compared to the 20 GALLONS of gasoline (or 20 LBS of Propane in the case of a propane powered vehicle) that a vehicle carries to power its engine.
@tmd004 Hi, I've seen that video and well...it's very dubious to say the least. Exhaustive research shows that R290 (propane) has an excellent global safety record. Why don't we take about 1 cup of gasoline, toss it in the car with some people and set it ablaze. This would make a striking example of why gasoline is WRONG to use in cars. We are 'comfortable' with gasoline - but propane OMG BOOM LOL.
I watched both videos and I can see that it does work. But with what seems to be your knowledge of HVAC/R why would you use such a dangerous gas? If you have a leak in your system traces of oil will lead you to it which then can be repaired, vacuumed, and recharged with the correct safe refrigerant.
@Hackermad Hi. The gas is only dangerous if certain highly specific conditions existed simultaneously. Use of R290 has been examined globally, with the risk being quite small. The gas contains a powerful odorant (mercaptan, ethanethiol or thiophene) which would alert me to any leaks long before a large quantity was present. Many houses use natural gas for cooking, and heating. The same dangers are present in these houses, with the exception that the supply is infinite should a leak form.
One problem here is that although you may ask why cant you pump what ever you want into your own heat pump, people sale homes and lose them in this economy. So what you created is a potential bomb waiting on the innocent tech because you altered the equipment and never flagged it that way as a warning. Second, I believe you stated the unit was a few year old so two years is left on the compressor in a unit you altered. Are you going to void your warranty and tell them if it blows? Doubt it.
GeorgiaMGT 1 month ago
@GeorgiaMGT And, if you have a Honda Civic Natural Gas model, and some kids steal it for a joy ride! After they crash, the EMTs, the fire dept crew and the news cameramen, will all be killed in a massive fireball??
Look up NGV..
A natural gas vehicle or NGV is an alternative fuel vehicle that uses compressed natural gas (CNG) or liquefied natural gas (LNG)..
Xringer 1 month ago
@GeorgiaMGT Actually my unit is very clearly labeled "WARNING CHARGED WITH 6LBS R290 PROPANE." I have mentioned that in these comments before, so please read before you accuse. As for a bomb, nonsense! A bomb requires an oxidant, period.
To boot, I have 10 GALLONS of gasoline, 40lbs of propane, Acetylene, Oxygen, and several gallons of other volatile substances stored in MY GARAGE!!!! How on earth do I continue to survive? I even have an infinite supply of NG piped into my house!!
BrainchildsLab 1 month ago
@BrainchildsLab It's funny how people are. Those that don't know any better hear the word "propane" and they automatically panic. "Omg it's going to explode" etc. Like you mentioned there is some very basic chemistry for combustion (oxygen), let alone a "bomb".
Sounds like a fun garage you got. I opted for an oxy-propane as opposed to oxy-acetylene for a heating/brazing torch. You get a lot more BTUs for a lot less money :)
walterbrunswick 1 month ago in playlist HVAC/R, Brazing, Equipment
@BrainchildsLab Just because you labeled it as containing propane does not make it legal.
That is why it is use only in industrial applications. If your local mechanical authority knew you were doing this you would be jailed no questions asked.
Personally I think u need just to getyour ass kicked so bad you would never endanger the health and safety of the general public dick weed,
BTW I love the part about charging to a 250 head pressure.hahahahahahahahah PSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHH
therohvac 1 month ago
This is retarded . What a moron.
GeorgiaMGT 1 month ago
@GeorgiaMGT I really appreciate the thought you gave to your post. You are a real gem to the Youtube community.
BrainchildsLab 1 month ago 2
@BrainchildsLab . That was all I needed to say. Been a HVAC tech and company owner for 30 years and an Air Force refrigeration tech before that. You are dangerous.
GeorgiaMGT 1 month ago
@GeorgiaMGT OK, so this last post is all you needed to say, or before?
BrainchildsLab 1 month ago
@GeorgiaMGT How many ounces of propane are in that those little propane tanks you buy at Ace hardware, and then store in your basement??
Have to informed everyone who comes into your home, that they risk being blown into the attic (and beyond), when your house detonates??
Since propane is heavier than air, a slow leak will accumulate in your basement, until there is a good fuel-air mix and a little spark.. Static electricity? heating system comes on?? BOOM!!
Xringer 1 month ago
@Xringer What is your point? Your generalization is crazy. We are specifically talking about an altered piece of equipment. And I dont have a basement and I wouldn't be stupid enough to tore gas or propane there if I did.
GeorgiaMGT 1 month ago
@GeorgiaMGT My point is, people use propane all the time. Many people store small propane tanks, BBQ lighters etc. inside their homes. no shed
If you have a propane leak, and have a basement, or any low area, where the gas will 'pool', you could end up with an explosion.
Of course, the same thing can happen if you have a gas line near your home.
In the Boston area, we have many thousands of gas leaks under our roadways.
The gas leak risk is much greater than any propane risk.
Xringer 1 month ago
I am not totally against this guy doing this, he seems well versed on exactly how refrigeration works and is taking safety into consideration. My only negative thought is the question of the purity of the propane he is using and the thought that "just anyone" who sees this video will attempt to do the same thing, without the same understanding of exactly what it is they are dealing with. I for see no major concern of system damage, propane is friendly. I worry a little for the potential of fire.
camry6 1 month ago
@camry6 I'm glad you aren't 'against' me for doing whatever I want to my own heatpump. Purity of the gas is a good idea! Coleman makes fine product. As for the fictional "just anyone" seeing this vid and "getting into trouble"...maybe we should ban videos like mine to make sure these poor souls don't do themselves in?
BrainchildsLab 1 month ago
@BrainchildsLab haha, I am using propane in my car for the A/C, it works great! Propane is still used in the EU in a lot of refrigeration equipment. Oil refineries use propane in their refrigeration systems to liquify natural gas and propane, although all of the equipment is out in the open air in case of leaks. Just throw a propane detector in your duct work, it will alarm at the slightest leak. It really isn't that unsafe to use in a hermetic system.
camry6 1 month ago
is your installation in accordance with ATEX standards? :-)
Sorry it is hazardous to do that for technicians who will work on your unit.
Despite this, i think your compressor life will be shorter due to the oil miscibility.
I hopes no for you but.....
Sorry for my English
ojbdemaria 2 months ago
@ojbdemaria Propane is a *very good* carrier of compressor oil. It is common knowledge that Propane as a refrigerant *extends* longevity of the system several times over. What's going to last longer in your system; bleach (r22) or oil (r290)?
BrainchildsLab 1 month ago
@BrainchildsLab : sorry, my english is not very good, but as propane can carrier the oil, it means that the oil level in the compressor can be modified a lot in transient running as defrost part for example. This can create a drop of the oil level in the compressor, then break it.
In another way, i don't really understand your last question.
ojbdemaria 1 month ago
I am an ac tech. If I tried to repair a leak with my torches I would be blown across the yard. If I was still alive I would walk to my van get my gun and shoot you. How safe is propane now.
superheat25 2 months ago
@superheat25 How would you be blown across the yard? Maybe a small leak could develop that would be like a Bic lighter. The ONLY way an explosion could happen is if the system were ALSO loaded with O2 and AT the stoichiometric ratio AND IGNITED. A "rapid conflagration" COULD occur if the system leaked out into a contained space, but the ethyl mercaptan odor would be so severe that you would vomit before lighting your Marlboro Light. Death by gunshot appears to be the largest risk.
BrainchildsLab 2 months ago
@superheat25 Wow, I know very little about brazing copper on ACs, but before doing a DIY repair on a mini-split, I knew to remove any refrigerant and run nitrogen inside the system while doing the repair..
I didn't have enough nitrogen, so I used CO2 as a purge gas , which is cheaper and works just as well. Google "Sanyo 24KHS72 Mini-Split DIY REPAIR project"..
Cheers,
Rich
Xringer 2 months ago
THANK YOU!!!!!!! This works better then the original r410a. My heat pump is only drawing 7 amps now instead of 9. The heat comming out is 3 deg. warmer then before with less power draw. Propane tho......Hmm. bomb?
ryobie1 3 months ago
@ryobie1 A bomb requires an oxidant. It would require a very 'special' leak in your system with an exact room size, a source of ignition and an exact O2 level to achieve the stoichiometric ratio required for an 'explosion'. If you are worried about an unstable hydrocarbon, it is the gasoline in your car. VERY dangerous and easily 10,000x more explosive than 6lbs of propane.
BrainchildsLab 2 months ago
But is a great Idea was used largely from the 1800's till about 1930
kd5bwp 4 months ago
@kd5bwp And still is!
BrainchildsLab 2 months ago
Impurities such as other hydrocarbons can impact the vapour
pressure of the product, lowering overall system efficiency. Sulphur
can cause corrosion, and unsaturated hydrocarbons can react with
system components. Moisture leads to hydrolysis, corrosion and
compressor failure.
kd5bwp 4 months ago
@kd5bwp Yeah but none of that's gonna happen before my crappy USA made pump reaches planned obsolescence.
BrainchildsLab 2 months ago
The quality of commercially available propane (LPG) is very often
not suitable for refrigeration. The composition varies substantially,
generally having between 60 and 95% propane. It can have high
levels of moisture and unsaturated hydrocarbons.
kd5bwp 4 months ago
@kd5bwp This is probably true, but propane (and yeah butane) are just better refrigerants - so it works. My pump and system are happy, but I'd recommend that anyone doing this use the Coleman green bottle propane which is (necessarily) suited for Coleman's indoor catalytic heaters (and a LOT cheaper than Dupont's fluorinated stuff). If the green bottles weren't pure, Boyscouts would be dying all the time.
BrainchildsLab 2 months ago
I think high pressure flammable gas in the living space is a bad idea. Natural and propane in household appliances is reduced in pressure by a regulator to about 12lb before it enters the house. You are also deviating from industry standard, which is always a bad idea and usually causes problems down the road. DIY guys never get that. The reason r-22 is being phased out is not because of global warming, it's because dupont lost their patent.
guitpicky 4 months ago
@guitpicky A gas leak is a gas leak, period. "High pressure" of a whopping 180lbs does not make it any more or less dangerous. The stoichiometric ratio rules.
To boot, my system has a LIMITED charge whereas the gas line is infinite.
BrainchildsLab 2 months ago
you are nuts get a tech to do this job
sharbelzesy 5 months ago
@sharbelzesy HVAC guys have a lot of overhead, they don't work cheap. It case you haven't heard about it yet, money is tight these days.
Propane isn't harmful to the ozone layer etc, so it's okay for DIYers to experiment with their broken AC units.
Once all that harmful gas has escaped, why pay someone to pump it back in? Why take the risk?
Using that R22&etc is taking a big risk.. Odds are, more than half the refrigerant in small appliances is going to end up in the atmosphere some day..
Xringer 4 months ago
@sharbelzesy Sure I may be nuts, but I'm not stupid. ;)
BrainchildsLab 2 months ago
thanks for showing the detail on the fitting. I might use this!
tavelkyosoba 5 months ago
amazingly informative thanks
gst69man 5 months ago
then you guys pay $200 for the gas i would try this for fun and see if it works i dont think it is that dangerous as there is no air present for the fuel to consume and start a fire if that portable heatpump that i have runs out of gas and i fix the leak i would try this for fun
joeyf504327 5 months ago
@brent12061980 how will it ignite the gas when there is no oxygen for the fire? duh you need fuel+oxygen+heat=fire you have heat and fuel but no air to consume
joeyf504327 5 months ago
i have made a red neck liquid nitrogen a/c unit but now i want to make a real one i did not want to get any Freon so will this work also any ideas
Mr3wheeledbike 5 months ago
@Mr3wheeledbike no nitrogen is considered a noncondensable you'll just ruin the compressor
xshepherd 5 months ago
Have you relabeled that unit with R290 to inform any future technicians that is what is in the unit?
Heat pump systems require a matched indoor coil. The company that changed the unit failed to match the indoor coil with the new unit.
Placement of the outdoor unit should have been at a location where overhangs do not interfere with the unit.
And fix that leak.
mechacc2000 6 months ago
@mechacc2000 Yep, first thing.
BrainchildsLab 5 months ago
At first I read the title and saw the crazy hair and I was a little suspicious... but then I was like hey, this guy is smart and knows what he is talking about!!
Thumbs up, good video.
walterbrunswick 6 months ago
Man I have been doing A/C repair since I was 18, and self taught, but I just learned something new. If propane is so ozone friendly, why can't we just use that instead of this stupid R410A crap that they switched to, there must be a reason, and maybe my comment below this one could be the reason why.
theonemam 6 months ago
cool hair man!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
mrneal03 7 months ago
@WinMOD42 You can get a vacuum pump at Harbor Freight for less than $100.00. It may not last too long but it would be good for a job or two. A good vacuum pump can be obtained for about $170.00. 1.5 CFM that is.
HCVguy93 7 months ago
@HCVguy93 I have seen guys buy those. They are junk and none of them were ever happy with it. I dont think they pull down past 1000 microns. Now you still need a set of manifold gauges and a micrometer (add at least another $200).
WinMOD42 7 months ago
You mean a descent pump runs $170. I have a good pump and it was $400 (6CFM Yellow Jacket) and a Mastercool Micrometer and Yellow Jacket Brute Gauges. All together a total of $700.
WinMOD42 7 months ago
@WinMOD42 Yeah, I was actually talking about a 1.5 CFM Robinair. That is pretty pricey since you got all high end equipment. I can use Yellow Jacket Series 41 manifold gauges, and they would work fine for me. I'm not actually a service tech yet, but I will be soon.
HCVguy93 7 months ago
@HCVguy93 I regret buying the Brute set. They are nice because they have a 4th 3/8 hose which rips a better vacuum but my next set will just be the 41's again. The pumps paid for itself. I've done about 30 change outs with it so far, going from r-22 to 410a but using the old line set. Horrible idea, I know. But thats how this company im subcontracting sells the jobs. I use nitro and haven't had 1 call back. The other guy doesnt use a micromenter or nitro and gets call backs on 5 out of 10.
WinMOD42 7 months ago
@WinMOD42 OK thanks for sharing that. I have actually looked into the Brute set, then the Titan manifold, and I decided on the Series 41 manifold with 60'' Plus ll hoses. I have 2 more years until I start working in the HVAC/R field, but I want to be knowledgeable and ready when I go to work. I have looked at a Yellow Jacket 8 CFM pump, and a JB Industries 7 CFM pump. I think I'll stay brand loyal and go with Yellow Jacket.
HCVguy93 7 months ago
@HCVguy93 Yellow Jackets make the best pump. Good idea to go with them for a pump. Unless you'll be working on a lot of industrial sized equipment, you shouldn't need an 8cfm. 6 would be plenty for residential. If you rip a vacuum too fast, on small residential systems, it can cause the non- condensables/ moisture to freeze rather than vaporizes off. I wouldn't mind the Titans. A friend had those and they were solid.
WinMOD42 7 months ago
@WinMOD42 Yeah, I will probably be doing refrigeration, residential, and commercial HVAC. Thanks for the advice, no one has ever told me that. I got my Series 41 manifold today. It is NICE!
HCVguy93 7 months ago
Comment removed
WinMOD42 7 months ago
Did you Vacuum out the system? I am curious how to vacuum out the air conditioner.
TheMarkoc1 7 months ago
@TheMarkoc1 I did vacuum the system. I bought a medical grade vacuum pump, surplus on ebay for $40. One of the best pieces of gear I've ever scored.
BrainchildsLab 5 months ago
beatle juice
callmighty 8 months ago in playlist hjghj
What kind of oil? How do you add it?
Thanks!!
msibleyj 8 months ago
Xringer 9 months ago
@Xringer Still working great. You'll need to know (or compute) your systems capacity. For mine I needed about 6lbs of charge. As for the filter and propane odors...they are not related whatsoever. If there were to be a propane odor, the system is leaking indoors and that could be potentially dangerous. As with any AC system, it must be verified to be 100% leak free prior to adding any refrigerant. The easiest way to do so is to pull a vacuum and monitor the level of vacuum over time.
BrainchildsLab 5 months ago
@BrainchildsLab Some of the research that's been done, Dropping R290 into R410A systems, seems to say that only about 40% of the rated weight is needed.
When I installed my 1st Sanyo, I tested the line-set with 400 PSI nitrogen and later took it down under 200 micron, before we released the R410A (that comes preloaded), but about 90 days later a pin hole appeared in the copper line, right above the compressor. Slowly all the R410a leaked out.
The leak occurred in a line that I couldn't test.
Xringer 5 months ago
@Xringer That's a bummer. Often leaks in the 'head' develop AFTER the warranty and we're stuck with replacing the whole unit because nobody's going 'in there' to fix it. Prior to R290 (propane), my system had about 9lbs of R22; with propane I only need about 6lbs. The 'head' runs about 40% less often than it used to, and the pump is MUCH quieter. This is due to propane's lower liquid pressure and the fact that it carries the hydrocarbon oil more readily. Cheers!
BrainchildsLab 5 months ago 2
@BrainchildsLab We are testing this repaired Sanyo outdoor (24k) unit with more R410A, just in case my brazing job is NG. :)
If it works with this 500 PSI stuff, it should work great with low pressure R290. But, now that I have found a cheap HAVC guy, I'll likely stick with R410A for now. He thinks propane is too risky and doesn't recommend it..
Thanks,
Rich
Xringer 5 months ago
Brainchild,
I'm doing interesting work with re-purposed air conditioners and R-290, etc. also.
You should check it out.
Google: "homemade heat pump manifesto"
-AC_Hacker
MrBlueoverture 1 year ago
@MrBlueoverture Very interesting! Keep it up. :)
BrainchildsLab 5 months ago
due to spam i cant put urls in the normal way
for more about Hydrogen_fluoride
en.wikipedia org/wiki/Hydrogen_fluoride
ejonesss 1 year ago
i also heard that burning or super heating of any Clorine based substance like cfc or hcfcs can make phosgene gas witch is also a bad thing too.
ejonesss 1 year ago
I have a 14,000 btu portable air conditioner that had a cracked joint. The crack has been repaired however the system is R-410a. Can I use propane in this system to recharge? Does the capillary tube need to be adjusted? I know it uses POE oil and is compatible with propane but the big question is the pressures using it as a drop in replacement. Never seen this done on a R-410a system. Can it be done? Around here R-410a is sold in 30lb tanks and costs more that the unit is worth.
AlumaFX 1 year ago
@AlumaFX
I've heard of it being done. You'll want to put a schrader-valve fitting for charging and in case you need to pull the propane back out. Worth a try! (Don't forget the oil...)
BrainchildsLab 1 year ago
@BrainchildsLab Hi, I wonder where you heard about someone using Propane in place of R410A?
I would be very interested if there was a link to read..
Thanks,
Rich
Xringer 1 year ago
@Xringer In addition, certain hydrocarbons can also be used as a “drop-in solution” for synthetic refrigerants. Propane (R290) and propene (R1270) have similar thermodynamic behavior to the R22. Propane is more efficient than R22.
Gree Appliances is using propane to replace R22 and R410A in new systems. R22 is a standard refrigerant, but these refrigerants make a considerable contribution to global warming as well as destroying the ozone layer.
Google: R410a replace propane
BrainchildsLab 5 months ago
@AlumaFX Now that summer is getting closer :) I wonder if you gave the Propane a try in your AC?
I also have a broken R410A system, and I'm thinking that Propane might be an cheap way to get the system running again.. (After I repair the leak).
Thanks,
Rich
Xringer 1 year ago
@Xringer Yes, I did this last summer. Used it all summer and it worked great! It consumed about 8-9 amps of power to drop the temp from the intake to the output approx 20 deg F. The great part is a new unit of the same model was only able to drop the temp 18 deg F while drawing 13-14 amps. Not only did it save me $ not buying a new one but it also save a ton of electricity. The unit ran day and night keep the entire down stairs nice and cool without any issues. It was also much quieter.
AlumaFX 1 year ago
@AlumaFX Did you make a video or post photos on a blog anywhere? I would love to see exactly what you did.
So, it was an 14,000 btu portable AC.. I guess it was a window mount.?.
I'm extremely interested in know if you had to make any mods to the unit? and what they were..
Thanks,
Rich
Xringer 1 year ago
I have to admit, this is a interesting video. I have read about so many refrigerants and I knew that propane was one of them. I never considered using it in a R22 system, but with R22 costing about $190 at my a/c supply store for a 30 pound tank, I may reconsider. Propane would need oxygen to burn, and because all O2 is removed from a system prior to charging, I guess it could not burn unless it leaked out. Maybe I'll try it in my friends a/c first to see how it goes.
douglas787 1 year ago
@douglas787
Hi Douglas, The propane is still working excellent (actually a little too cold in here right now). If you have a leak big enough to cause any real trouble, your system would leak out entirely in <one hour and you'd be out of your house on the smell alone. If your system leaks that bad, you should know well before you'd ever add the propane....or any other refrigerant. There's no such thing as an "inert" refrigerant...that's a Dupont myth that didn't pan out so well. Cheers!
BrainchildsLab 1 year ago
What about compressor lubricants? Which lubricants are R22 /R290 compatible? Could you just add the R290 on top of the R22? Is evacuation of R290 a problem (with explosion)? COOL hack!
nonsquid 1 year ago
@nonsquid Hi, thanks. Propane is completely compatible with both R22 and R22 compressor oils. From my research; propane is actually better at carrying the oil charge.
BrainchildsLab 1 year ago
@BrainchildsLab An interesting note is that propane was used as substitute for by some after market companies when r 12 became bad all of a sudden. Turned the car into a grenade in a collision. Another interesting note is I remember propane being used in refrigeration along with amonia. Bad thing with amonia is it's a suffocant. Iam sure you pissed the a/c guy off. How dare you think for yourself. lol
tmd004 1 year ago
@tmd004 "propane was used as substitute [for] 12... Turned the car into a grenade in a collision."
Can you provide ANY proof of this claim? And what about all that highly-flammable gasoline or diesel being carried around by EVERY automobile regardless of whats in the AC? The 16 oz of propane that a car AC system would hold is hardly a concern when compared to the 20 GALLONS of gasoline (or 20 LBS of Propane in the case of a propane powered vehicle) that a vehicle carries to power its engine.
OKflyboy 7 months ago
@tmd004 Hi, I've seen that video and well...it's very dubious to say the least. Exhaustive research shows that R290 (propane) has an excellent global safety record. Why don't we take about 1 cup of gasoline, toss it in the car with some people and set it ablaze. This would make a striking example of why gasoline is WRONG to use in cars. We are 'comfortable' with gasoline - but propane OMG BOOM LOL.
BrainchildsLab 5 months ago
I watched both videos and I can see that it does work. But with what seems to be your knowledge of HVAC/R why would you use such a dangerous gas? If you have a leak in your system traces of oil will lead you to it which then can be repaired, vacuumed, and recharged with the correct safe refrigerant.
Hackermad 1 year ago
@Hackermad Hi. The gas is only dangerous if certain highly specific conditions existed simultaneously. Use of R290 has been examined globally, with the risk being quite small. The gas contains a powerful odorant (mercaptan, ethanethiol or thiophene) which would alert me to any leaks long before a large quantity was present. Many houses use natural gas for cooking, and heating. The same dangers are present in these houses, with the exception that the supply is infinite should a leak form.
BrainchildsLab 1 year ago