101 East - Genetically Modified Food - 30 Mar 07 - Part 2

[RandyBful1]

We are the guinea pigs in largest experiment ever conducted. No one should have the right to patent life. Monsanto will never stop until they've Genetically engineered every living organism on the planet! Their greed knows no bounds. They don't care who they kill! This nonsense will destroy us all. Anyone who still has the capacity to think can see this.

[richierino88]

these companies make diseases and bugs to kill organic crops and they use lethal pestisides that only their plants will sustain, so the farmers are stuck with buying there seed, alot like the sickly world of biotechnology we live in, believe me these influenza'a are just the beggining, we will be the ultimate victoms in the end, good luck and look into silver protien

[richierino88]

this is just another way for people to feel more important, yah it's nice that you can make a science expierament with my dinner but no thanks I'll eat heritage grown seeds grown in organic soil. SO mr. corporation take your genetics and shove them, and also there is a GM bug like a flee, but it can live on plants animals and humans, it has killed thousands of bees and people, it will drain your energy till your at the end, GM 3 is real and you doctor wont treat it either, nnem oil, white vinigr

[coolbreeze32526]

help my hamburger bun is growing eyes! i think it wants to kick my ass!

[kimxxxyyy]

I have allergically reacted to soy thanks to gmos, big corporations are evil entities with no consciousness, I am aware of this and I will vote with my dollar to only support Non gmos and only buy organic whole foods!!!!

[soleprobe1]

They want to control food supply and most importantly the seed through patent. It's got nothing to do with helping farmers it's about monopoly, plain and simple. But also GMO food is not only dangerous to the environment but also to human health which is why many European countries ban GMOs

[Giles20]

Im against the patenting of seeds, however, there is nothing wrong with gm technology. It is only there to help.

Also, GM foods are not all the same and your claim that they are all dangerous has no basis. It is true that some GM food have been unsafe for human consumption. However, thats because of the gene that was put in. Of course, if a gene that encodes for toxins are put in, then it will be unsafe to eat. On the other, genes for vitamin A would be perfectly safe.

[Giles20]

It really depends on what gene you put in. The technology is perfectly safe. Introducing a GM crop into the environment will be no different to introducing a foreign crop into a foreign land. Learn about the techonology before you critize it!

[michael0156]

Giles, you clearly work for the biotech industry.  Scientists who do not work for biotech speak the truth about how bad GMO is.

GMO food is THE most contaminated food.

Conventional growing contaminates the food with insecticides chemical fertilizers.

GMO's have all conventional problems plus they are contaminated with 2 insecticides grown inside the crop or by herbicide applied directly to the crop.

Environmental pollution is greatly increased. Food costs are higher

GMO is BAD

[Giles20]

Actually, i dont, im a parasitologist and work in the public sector.

Without GMO, GM mosquitos for instance, malaria vector research would be nowhere. GMOs are not only involved in food you know, allot of biological/medicinal research are dependent on them.

I agree that certain GM crops should not be out there and we must make sure that they are not. But you need to look at GMO in an individual basis. It really depends on what genes you put it.

[Giles20]

Michael, not all GMO food crops contain insecticides you know. Some just contains genes which enhance the crop output.

Some GMO are obviously bad, yet some are benificial.

I share your concern that allot of biotech companies care more about profit than the environment. But that is a political problem and has nothing to do with the technology.

I find it a great shame that such technology has been hijacked by profitering capitalists.

[michael0156]

The vast majority of GMO crops are grown with pesticide resistance (2 insecticides in every part of the plant) or herbicide resistance (where herbicide is used directly on the land and the crops to kill weeds). All other GMO<1%

I am not against the tech, but the poisoning of our food/environment, no labels, no controls to stop the spread to conventional/organic crops.

No GMO is beneficial. Biotech tried golden rice. Adding vitamin A for eye health. Just give the kids vegetables.

[Giles20]

I think you need to ask yourself what GMOs are. GMO or Genetically Modified Organisms are organisms with a foreign gene added to its chromosome. There are many types of GMOs, ranging from food crops, to research mice or mosquitos, to bacteria producing insulin for diabetes sufferers.

I keep repeating myself but it really comes down to the gene you put in. Add a gene responsible for toxin production and you will get a toxic plant. Add a gene for vitamin A and u get vitamin A on plant. Okay?

[michael0156]

If you have a scientific background then you already know the dangers associated with introducing foreign DNA into any organism. Most of them are deformed or die. There are ALWAYS unintended changes. So you decieve.

You also already know that there is NEVER one gene transferred but a package of genes (promoter, trait and marker genes). So you lie.

You are clearly an advocate for the biotech industry using their worn out deceptive and fraudulent arguments.

Don't patronize me sweetie.

[Giles20]

Okay, i dont know where to start. If you have had any experiecne in creating GMOs then you would know that plasmids are very succesful way of transfering a foreign gene into the host's chromosome. In fact, they are being used now in gene therapy because of their effeciency and that they limit the chance of oncogenic mutations (thats cancer btw). Trust me, i know this field. Im involved in malaria research, particularly on the vector side. I make gm mosquitos on a regular basis.

[michael0156]

1. You denied working with the biotech industry, but now declare you do.

2. You ignore the bad things I say about GMO food and go on to defend other uses of gene altering, coming back to food defending golden rice.

3. You completely ignore my comments about the dangers of adding foreign genes to organisms' DNA.

4. You ignore my exposing you for a liar regarding for your claim that one gene is used.

5. You try to belittle and patronize me in an effort to discredit me.

[michael0156]

You are taking the classic stand of the biotech industry which is to attack personally ignore the bad things about biotech and repeat worn out lies in an effort to decive the public about biotech.

Why? Greed... pure and simple greed.

If you are a scientist you know that everything I have stated regarding the hazards and problems with altering DNA are true.

This makes you even less of a human being for pushing this profit driven UNSAFE modification of our food supply.

[Giles20]

Arghhhhh! I have argued precisely at the points you put forth and clearly debunked them. Also, please tell me where i have defended the biotech industry.

Do you even have any background in genetics? Because you are making a fool out of yourself.

For the last time, i am arguing FOR THE TECHNOLOGY! A technology that is already making a difference to us all.

[michael0156]

Where have you debunked ;

1. GM food being the most contaminated food we have ever produced?

2. Several genes used in EVERY alteration of GM food. You repeatedly claimed 1 gene.

3. Even using your "plasmids" the entry of the modifications occurs RANDOMLY in the host DNA causing the unintended and unknown changes that are unsafe.

4. Where have you produced ANY evidence that GM food is safe? And remember, I know what evidence is supposed to be.

Where does your funding come from?

[Giles20]

You dont seem to listen and we are going around in circles. Again, you keep on grouping GM foods as all the same when they clearly are different from each other. GM crops with improved crop yield traits are safe for consumption, you fail to give any evidence otherwise.

I never said every gm food only contains 1 gene. I keep mentioning a "gene" to keep it simple for you.

Again, if you are involved in biological/medical research, then you would just stand and laugh at what u just said.

[michael0156]

There are no GM crops with improved yield traits. You make mistakes, again.

There ARE GM crops having higher yield, but not because their yield traits were changed.

Crops that are herbicide resistant have a higher yield because weeds, which compete for nutrients, are killed when herbicide is sprayed.

Unfortunately, higher yield is a poor return for the higher expense of the seed and herbicide. Also the herbicide adds pollution, food residue and worker poisoning to its costs.

[Giles20]

Plasmids are used precisely because of the limited damage on the host DNA, look it up. Its even being used in gene therapy because of its effieciency. To be honest, im tired of repeating myself and you clear do not know anything about genetic engeneering so ill take anymore comments from u on this issue as gibberish

Has anyone died from golden rice? In fact, give me evidence that it causes damage in us. I fail to see how extra nutrients is harmful. Apparently, it is accordin to idiots like u

[michael0156]

Again you resort to name calling and don't address any issues I raise.

You claim that plasmids are used because they limit damage to host DNA. You make my argument for me!

You say plasmids damage host DNA.

1. HOW?

2. Which host DNA genes are involved?

3. Which Biotech companies use plasmids instead of the "gene gun"?

You clearly don't understand what you are saying and how it actually helps my argument against GM food.

Where does your University get it's funding from?

[Giles20]

What? This is getting silly. Im actually working in a university. Stop making assumptions, your starting to annoy me now!

As i said before, it depends which GMO food, THEY ARE NOT ALL THE SAME! Golden rice is safe for consumption and i challenge u to claim otherwise!

I have addressed you regarding the efficiency and safeness of using plasmids to transfer the gene of interest. You clearly did not read my past post.

Well, im gonna start doing so if you carry on like this!

[michael0156]

I think your annoyance comes from your inability to address the issues I have raised. For a parasitologist you waste a lot of time defending GM food. Are you sure you're not connected with a BIotech group profiting from GM food technology?

Golden rice cannot be considered safe for consumption until safety testing has been done.

Do you not realize that GM food has been given GRAS status?

GRAS; Generally Recognized As Safe.

No FDA approval is required unless added traits are toxic.

[Giles20]

Also, if you know a bit of biology, then you would know that unintended changes on DNA always occurs thanks to a faulty DNA replication system that we have.

Have I not just criticized and shown my dislike towards these companies? Its not my fault that they use this arguement. Im arguing for GM technology, not for the profit seeking capitalists.

[michael0156]

You defended golden rice. Please don't try to back peddle here.

You have exposed yourself for a fraud.

You know what unintended changes I am talking about regarding the modification of our food.

Your first sentence inplies unintended changes are nothing to worry about.

These same unintended changes have killed lab rats.

GM food is the most contaminated/unsafe of all food we, as a race, have ever eaten.

You have repeatedly claimed the food is safe. Stop your deceptions.

[Giles20]

You claimed that golden rice is unsafe for consumptions, as well as all GMO crops. I rebuked explaining why golden rice is safe and that GMO crops are not all the same. Also, as i mentioned earlier, golden rice was developed in the public sector.

Me, a fraud, explain please.

Again, i have explained to you the efficiency of using plasmids at transfering the gene without causing a great deal of damage on the DNA.

Unintended changes, or mutations, occurs in nature all the time.

[michael0156]

For a parasitologist you have an unusual command of the standard biotech industry fraudulent non-sensical arguments attempting to justify transgenic crops.

If you are a scientist then you know how harmful tinkering with the genome is.

Especially when we still do not understand the vast majority of the programming and interaction in the DNA of even the simplest organism.

We are unable to predict with any degree of certainty the unintended changes that occur when playing with DNA.

[Giles20]

Oh dear, looks like someones been left behind in the 50s. News flash, scientists have been producing GMOs succesfully for decades. They have created bacteria that produces insulin for diabetes sufferers, mice resistant to many diseases, and even cows producing silk in its milk. Anti-science people like you will not change the fact that it is a successful technology. Do a degree in genetics and come bak to me.

Read about Recombinant DNA..

Just because u dont understand, doesnt mean its wrong

[michael0156]

Bacteria are naturally adept at taking up foreign remnants of DNA and incorporating it as their own or dying.

Mice resistant to what diseases?

Goats were "engineered" to produce spider silk in thier milk, not cows and not silkworm silk.

GM technology is not successful or safe, it merely makes money for a lot of people.

I'm not against science, just greedy stupid people exploiting science for profit.

That's what GM food is. Exploitation of science for profit.

You don't get it

[Giles20]

Transgenic mice are common in biological/medical research and some, depending on the gene introduced, live just as well as "normal" mice.

Again, which GM food are you talking about? THEY ARE NOT ALL THE SAME!

As i said, some are, some are not. Depends on what the added trait is. If you still dont get this then i give up!

[michael0156]

Over 99% of GM food is modified in one of two ways.

1. Pest resistance (2 insecticides grown in every part of the plant)

2. Herbicide resistance (herbicide is sprayed directly on the crop/land killing weeds and contaminating food.

No safety testing of these foods is required. FDA people were paid with $jobs$ to declare GM food to be "substantially equivalent" to conventional food.

This classification was fought by FDA scientists, but FDA heads do not have to heed their advisors.

[Giles20]

99%, id like to see where this data came from. Also, at least now u admit that they are not all the same lol.

Well, again it depends which GM food you are talking about. For example, Golden rice is just as safe as "conventional" foods. You fail to give any evidence otherwise.

[michael0156]

Again you defend GM food? You say you are opposed you say you are in favor... Please make up your mind.

ALL GM food is less safe that ALL conventional food.

All conventional food is less safe that all organic food.

The more you engineer it the more dangerous and unstable it becomes. The more you engineer it the more unintended and unknown changes occur.

None of this is a laughing matter.

Your first statement is nonsense. What do you mean I said they were all the same?

[michael0156]

"Over 99%" should be "Over 90%"... Sorry for the typo.

[Giles20]

Regarding golden rice, if you've actually done your research then you would have known that it was developed in the public sector.

Golden rice makes it easier for kids living in poverty to aquire beta carotine, a precurser to vitamin A, hence reducing the chance of getting vitamin A defficiency which can lead to blindness. Its hard enough for kids living in such dreadful conditions to eat let alone plan a balanced diet.

[michael0156]

I never spoke of "Public Sector" issues. Why did you?

Biotech continues to claim that GM modification of food is needed to feed a starving world. It is not. They know it is not. YOU know it is not.

There are many more nutrients in vegetables other than carotenoids. The solution is not to modify rice to contain carotenoids (which WILL cause unintended changes) but to feed kids vegetables.

Modifying rice is a foothold biotech wants to entrench themselves in Asian farming.

[Giles20]

Because the public sector is funded by tax payers. Private companies are funded by capitalists. See the difference?

Well, the technology has the capability of increasing crop yield as well as nutritious values. It can be part of the solution.

Not everyone is as rich as you, the majority of people in this world strugle to eat, let alone plan a balanced diet!

Simple solution, YES to GM technology, YES to GM rice producing more yield and nutrients, NO to the private ownership of these crops!

[michael0156]

You are an idiot or you are 100% biotech.

Golden Rice was "given" to the Golden Rice Humanitarian Board (GRHB) which controls licensing.

ALL of the GRHB board members work in the PRIVATE sector promoting biotechnology.

The aim of the GRHB is to contaminate all rice growing in the world with GM traits from Golden Rice.

CONTAMINATION is the objective of the Biotech industry and the FDA and the USDA for all crops everywhere.

Canada canola is 100% contaminated. US corn will be next.

[Giles20]

This is a political arguement and has nothing to do with the science behind the technology! If you want to critize these companies, by all means, even i do. Im a communist and i know what they are all about. That is not, however, an arguement against the technology!

[michael0156]

AGAIN- All GM crops are the most contaminated food we have ever eaten.

They have all the contamination and nutrient deficiency of conventional crops. In addition they have contamination from either 2 pesticides growing in them and herbicide sprayed on them and absorbed through their roots.

They are also fraught with unintended and unknown changes. Some of these changes are KNOWN to have killed lab rats.

You have not addressed these issues you claim to have debunked.

[Unilka]

This is a bias report for the favour of GMOs... Mechanistic reductionist capitalist way of looking at life... How sad i wonder what people (defending this technology based on killing diversity of life) will defend themselves when it turns out to be a disaster in about a decade... As usual ignorance and interests of a small minority (big corporates) are ruling... When will people wake up???

[51doug]

Who is going to bring new technology to poor nations if not global companies? Not the local governments. Not the UN. Not the universities. Get real. Unless seed companies help farmers get access to new technologies, they will continue to use oxen and hoes to grow crops. Not all farmers will adopt technology, just like EU and US. But we can't continue to live in the past. Wake up!

[michael0156]

This technology is being actively fought in the USA and EU.

The Europeans are better at fighting this because they are more aware of what is happening and they are more politically involved than we are.

Our government is constantly threatening trade sanctions against the Europeans and some African nations because of theri attempts to keep GMO out or tightly controlled.

All the Europeans want is a label on the food and the USA government is fighting even that simple protection.

[thiscat]

8 stars!

[thiscat]

8 stars!

[Bingohanz]

Excellent debate.