I'm a liberal, I don't hate America, I choose not to listen to Rush and Beck because they exist in echo chambers as do most of their listeners, and I'm pretty sure I'm not retarded. Chill out on the hateful assumptions dude, they have no place here as TYT is one of the best and most watched channel on YouTube. You have no idea who your talking to. For instance; I'm a young decorated veteran and I know for a fact I'm not the only liberal one able to read your clever comment.
@rolla4lyfe1234 we dont hate America, we understand there are people that have lied for so long , that it has affected people like you. Please manage to have a conversation without vulgarity, to start with.
Dick Cheney has a career of doing the kind of thing that all this tortuing "other people" is about. It is a pure "biased analysis game". Punish someone else.. It means you didn't do it.... or at least that is how popular opinion is going to shake out. The status quo however it is, or whoever is running it and making it happen, it always unbelievably corrupt and truth perverting. I know: that's why they got suppression and information suppression techniques.
IF thats true, which it is then thats a fucken lie.. Not a fuckn inaccuracy, Dick fucken cheney fucken lied.. aND if Thats a liE then wHo the FuCK is to say he was even tortured, it wouldnt make sense to even torture him if he was living out DICK fucken Cheneys LIES... Just like dick cheney was a major conspiritor in 911 and witholding ACCURATE information(FACTS) about 911... Why cant America SEE,, EVERYTHING IS A FUCKEN LIE
i am trying to understand how you can say that without laughing. there is no way that they are all innocent Iraq and Afghanistan. do you have any proof to that?
i am using my head. there is no way in hell that everyone in both Iraq and Afghanistan were innocent. maybe you should pull your head out of your ass and think
The correct grammar is not "you hates America," the correct way of writing is, "you hate America." OK! Do we have that understanding? You write like a redneck..
Cheney was wrong about everything, so he's just doing what he does best, the wrong thing...he needs to be put in one of those detention camps and let the prisoners have their way with him...he's such a prick....
Are you going to remove me from the country? lol again im not black but even if you wanted to get all the black people out of the U.S you cant. Youre no one. just stop and shut up already. No one cares what you think
lol No im not black and I think you missed that thing called "the civil war" that ended anyone owning anyone in this country you dumbass. Man do everyone a favor and kill yourself. You are exactly the type of person that we dont need in this country. You dont care about the issues you care about trivial bullshit. lol its sad.
lol again who are you to say what belongs to who? YOU ARE NO ONE. and apparently a fucking idiot that doesnt understand what this country is about. America is bigger then what you think. luckily most people in this country dont think the same mental way you do.
I love how all these conservatives are like "YEA OBAMA IS RUINING THIS COUNTRY AND THE ECONOMY" now my question is where were you during the bush administration?
sooo we never found any wmd's...we never found so much as a single anthrax baccillus.
sooo bush lied about the threat. he deceived the american people and the world in order to make israel feel more secure. or to finish what his father started, or for what ever off the wall reason. here's a clue: never let the government tell you who to hate. who to fear. who to fight.
choose your enemies like you choose your friends. and trust no-one. sadly this plan might not work for most americans
That actually sounds like a very good idea. He's already lost every point he's tried to make because he can't support any of them. I think I'll just let him ramble to himself for a while. Hopefully, he won't get bored and wander the streets with a gun looking for someone with dark skin to murder.
French inspectors, approved by the U.N. of which this country claims to be a member found there were no WMDs. When we tell another member country they lack sufficient cause for war, we expect them to listen. But when the U.N. told Bush he lacked sufficient cause for war, he violated U.N. membership, broke ranks, and declared an illegal war. The U.N. was right. There were no WMD. Bush admitted that. Now it's time for you to admit it. Put your toy gun down. You'll put your eye out.
No, it was confirmed several times that he didn't have any WMDs. That was confirmed even before we went to war by French inspectors. But Bush wanted a war and he didn't really care whether Iraq was a threat or not. It has also been publicly admitted that Iraq is known to have nothing to do with 9/11. 15 of the 19 supposed hi-jackers are Saudi and Bush is friends with the Saudis. The evidence just doesn't line up as you well know because insistant as you are, you can't explain it.
He Didn't have any WMD's! We basically raped their country and found absolutely nothing! Where would he even be able to get nukes strong enough to shoot half way around the world? He couldn't have! He didn't!
You're emphasizing the fact that it only occurred at the WTC. You have no other examples. You have only a failed, biased and warped opinion and on that alone, you want the rest of the world to excuse the guilty parties from their crimes and follow their lead in punishing the innocent.
You must certainly be a Christian where punishing the innocent in place of the guilty is seen as "justice".
Give me an instance of a large plane striking a steel skyscraper and taking it down. A B25 flew into the Empire State Building, one engine ripped from the wing, crashed through the building and fell to the sidewalk below. The fire burned for around 90-minutes. The towers were built to withstand strikes from airliners. Never in the history of steel structures has one EVER fallen to fire. And yet on 9/11 it happened to three, all on the same day, and one wasn't even hit by a plane.
Don't you people get it? Warbound is a troll. He/she will say ANYTHING that will cause all of you to pay attention . Warbound doe'n't believe in ANYTHING but pissing you off . Watch what the asshole does about this post.
This marks the FOURTH time you have refused to address the evidence. Can there be any doubt that you realize you have no point from which to argue? It is apparent even to you that the official report is inconsistent with the evidence. And that which is inconsistent with the evidence is never the truth. Yet, for the sake of your seething desire to murder, to destroy and to spread suffering and hatred across the planet, you deny even that which you cannot hope to refute.
So now you're denying what even Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the National Security and Intelligence services readily admit? Saddam did not WMD, nor did he have a delivery system capable of threatening the U.S. if he'd had them.
You need a wake-up call. Anyone can see by your user name that you take great pride in killing others. You see it as a point of pride and glory. And that, outlines the sadness and sickness of a mentality such as yours.
Perhaps you aren't keeping up with information. Saddam didn't have any nukes. He said he didn't. Bush swore he did. Then Bush made surrender of the nukes he didn't have a condition of avoiding war. Saddam couldn't surrender what he didn't have. So we went to war under false pretenses, put Iraq in a no-win situation, killed nearly a million of their citizens simply for defending against an illegal invasion, and now you're bragging about it.
I've yet to see you produce a single constructive argument here. All you do is assault anyone with whom you disagree with a string of insults and profanity. If you had an argument, one might expect you would present it.
Why didn't they photograph and tag the evidence at the Pentagon? Instead they had people (who weren't even gloved), wandering around picking up debris, no photos, no tagging, no clipboards and no marking of locations. Then they covered the area with loads of gravel.
You seem to think there is honor in helping to cover the tracks of the guilty parties. And what's worse, you let them do the investigation on their own criminal acts, then support their findings, even when you've helped to demonstrate that those findings are far from credible. You can't justify them, nor can they. Yet you want to continue killing, just to kill. Why did they immediately bury all of the evidence at the Pentagon under a thick layer of gravel?
You have now ducked the evidence for the THIRD time. There is little doubt that you know perfectly well you can't address any of it and hold onto your pet conspiracy theory.
The really sad thing is that you don't care if the people being punished were guilty or if those punishing them are the truly guilty parties. And such a complete disregard for justice does far more to harm this country than being certain of our actions ever could.
Going into Iraq is not the proper punishment though, as Bush and Cheney have both stated that Iraq and 9/11 are completely separate. It was Saudi's that committed the twin tower's bombings.
warbound05 did u ever read the bible? it says jesus was clearly a jew. if u see he was born by a Jewish Woman. Mary . now go read the bible and get some information u need
Why did George W Bush, Condolezza Rice, Dick Cheney and Robert Mueller all make separate television announcements assuring the public no one in government could have imagined planes being hijacked and flown into buildings when NORAD documents show they had trained for precisely that kind of scenario? It seems you don't care if the guilty parties are brought to justice or not. You're just happy as long as we're bombing the crap out of somebody... ANYBODY, in retaliation.
Why was a 600-ton piece of steel blown sideways, all the way across the street, into another building? Why does the video show debris from one of the towers being thrust several stories upward as the collapse begins? Why do people inside the buildings report a blast from below (the basement area), BEFORE the plane struck above them? Why wasn't there a single drop of blood to be found for examination at Shanksville? Where did two, 6-ton Rolls Royce jet engines vanish to?
While you're busy ignoring that evidence, you can avoid asking why none of the hi-jackers names appear on any of the released passenger manifests (there aren't even any middle-eastern names). And why did tests only manage 4-inches of distortion when the official report requires over 40-inches to explain the collapse? Why did NORAD fail 4-times in the same day after flying 67 100% successful hi-jack missions in the previous year? These questions need answers.
It would seem your understanding of common words is somewhat lacking. Nineteen men hi-jacking 4-airliners and purposely flying them into buildings IS a conspiracy. However, the official conspiracy theory is inconsistent with the evidence. Why did Building 7 fall? The official report doesn't even mention that it did. Why did it have tons of molten steel in the basement, just like the towers? Why won't the government release any of the 86 videos showing what happened at the Pentagon?
All of the public defense from Cheney and others of these methods completely misses the point, and it simply reflects the complete moral blind spot that the previous administration suffered from.
We, as a respected democracy in the world, simply aren't supposed to be doing things like this to people.
It's widely held that these techniques don't work to obtain credible information...but that doesn't matter. I don't care if they worked 100%. There are things that America DOES NOT DO.
if dick cheney was a patriot maybe he would have just gone to vietnam like all of the other patriots instead of being a little baby and hiding from his obligations. there is nothing patriotic about dick cheney
Please acquaint yourself with argumentum ad populum. It's also known as the fallacy of popularity because you're basing your entire argument upon it and it's called a "fallacy" for a reason.
In the end only the evidence matters and the evidence tells us clearly that the official report is wrong. Even NIST and FEMA couldn't offer much support for the official report. Until you've looked at the evidence, your opinion means very little and it's clear you haven't looked.
It doesn't matter what percentage of who believes what. Did it matter when most of the world thought the Earth was flat? The majority of people once held a geocentric view of the solar system.
But the numbers are far from your claim. In a WorldPublicOpinion poll of 17 nations, on avg, 46 percent say that al Qaeda was behind the attacks while 15 percent say it as the US government. But the evidence is more than just opinion and it supports the claim that the official report is wrong.
Okay, now you're pulling numbers out of thin air and none of them are even close to accurate. Secondly, there are too many people like yourself who will never actually look at the evidence. Instead you simply line up with the other sheep as you're lead to slaughter and insist that anyone who actually takes a critical look must be insane. Perhaps worst of all you resort to argumentum ad populum because you have nothing else. You don't know the evidence and you won't learn.
So, for the second time you fail to address even one piece of evidence, yet you insist that I must be wrong, physicists must be wrong, demolitions experts must be wrong and a coalition of engineers and architects must be wrong. But you demonstrate your vulnerability and you're recognition that you can't present an argument and you reveal that through your defensive tone, your use of profanity and your uncontrolled rage for what you can't refute.
The problem with torure is that it turns the "war on terror" An eye for an eye fight.
The soldier or reporter captured and tortured to death is an act of retatilion. We are America! We have laws we have Standards! And thats what makes us better than them. Why we will always be better. This is a stain on our flag and nation. Toture is nothing but a sick form of 'Punishment' to quench that thurst for revenge we all feel, But we never act on. Because we are better than that!
If the GOP does not disolve the winner take all rule, then they will always get a moderate (NeoCon) like Bush, McCain etc. We will not see a real conservative win like that.
Reagan was the last conservative president we had. Before him, you have to go back to the 1920's to find one (Calvin Cooledge). Yes, the GOP primaries are very broken.
The RNC knows that in 'winner take all" states, the two conservatives (there will always be 2 percieved conservatives running) will split the vote, leaving the moderate to "take the whole state". That's how McCain won after Romney split the vote with Huckabee. Huckabee is no conservative, Romney is barley.
THe RNC likes this set-up cause it ensures a moderate (the 2 Bush's) will always win. That means free trade deals and open borders. That's what the RNC likes.
Note that you never address 58-tons of missing aircraft. You never mention a 60-ton lumbering passenger jet defeating the defense system of the most secure air-space existing anywhere in the world and you completely ignore the total absurdity behind the idea of a skyscraper falling as a result of a few small internal fires on a handful of its floors... because you can't. Even reports by NIST and FEMA could not present any degree of credibility for the explanations you accept.
Khalid Sheik Mohammed told NOTHING before being waterboarded, everything after.
Yes, maybe other techniques would have worked, but that's speculation. The fact is we tried other techniques that did not work before we tried waterboarding. So there is good reason to suspect that waterboarding was uniquely successful in divulging information that prevented terrorism and saved lives.
I note that while you proclaim that someone reading the official report is wrong, you provide no source for your claim. What do you base your assertion on? Is it simply your emotional knee-jerk response to learning you were wrong?
Please read Washington Post article titled How a Detainee Became An Asset, august 29th. Read the WHOLE story because the key facts that vindicate Cheney are towards the end.
"What do you think changed KSM's mind?" one former senior intelligence official said this week after being asked about the effect of waterboarding. "Of course it began with that."
I challenge you to read the whole article. I can promise you that this speaker didn't.
Why do some have the need to apply labels to people rather than simply address their comments and questions? I'll tell you why. It saves you the trouble of having to assess each individuals ideas separately. Instead you categorize them (often inaccurately), and address them as a thing, rather than a person.
So we have an official report which disagrees with a newspaper article. Why does the article in the newspaper speak with greater authority than the official report?
My reading comprehension is fine. I had a question about the article vs the official report and I asked the question. You offered an answer, 'nuff said?
I'm not at all uncomfortable with facts. I am, however, very uncomfortable with people who will draw no ethical guidelines, just so long as they get what they want. That's what the terrorists do and we find them to be in the wrong. If we then use the same tactics, we're no better than they. One does not fight terror by terrorizing.
So now you know...it wasnt that we thought Obama was good, it was that we thought we needed to avoid McCain, who is bad.
Cenk will tell you "oh, the nation is liberal and to the left", which I think you know is ridiculous, if your objective. It's just like Cenk saying "pass public option or else the house will lose their seats". The House will lose them anyway, so Cenk is trying to get a libreal bill passed before it happens, thats all. Think for yourself.
As sad as it is, I have to admit you're correct. Obama was selected only as the single alternative to McCain who was, before the end of his campaign, promising us another 4-years of Bushism.
I'd rather have the lesser of two evils, than the evil of two lessers.
As much as I disagreed with liberal philosophy, I didnt vote McCain, I couldnt bring myself to, and many of my independant friends said the same. McCain is the worst canidate I have ever seen the RNC put up, and that is saying something. He's awful.
It amazes me that Cenk doesnt see this. He actually thinks the nation is center-left, even after these town hall meetings!
The voters in Florida who made McCain the canidate should be ashamend. The "winner take all" rule is bad.
Sixty-ton aircraft do not melt into 2-tons of rubble. One does not fly a lumbering (relatively slow), huge commercial aircraft into the most protected airspace on the planet, and succeed unless aided by those behind the defense systems and steel structures do not fall to fire.
Before squealing with delight at popping the head off your target, the wise gunner is first certain of his intended target.
You won in congress and the presidency, because the nation had Bush fatigue. He was an awful president, and many independant conservatives dis-liked him because he was too liberal! Espicially on spending and the border...and the war. Thats why Obama won...by default really.
You mistook it to mean the nation went center-left. Trust me you couldnt be more wrong. Cenk is doing you no favors by telling you that.
Obama won because Bush was too Liberal? So conservatives prefer a Liberal candidate to a moderate conservative (which he was not - he was an outright fascist just like you).
let me explain real slow so you can understand. Since Cenk will spin it, and the right will spin it, you wont know the truth. Here it is...
We were angry at Bush for ther liberal act of leavign open the borders, free trade deals, and the war...yes, the war in Iraq is something we used to see from the left. McCain was EXACTLY the same as Bush on those issues. So we lost interest. Obama won by default...we thought he would at least keep us from bombing Iran or going to war agaisnt Russia.
I will disagree with you on just one of your statements and then, only partially. Bush didn't leave the borders open. He dissolved them with the North American Union. And he did so without the consent or knowledge of the American people he was supposed to represent.
If you felt this way you shouldn't have let Obama win by default. Obama is not that much different from Bush. You should have voted for someone like Ron Paul who seems to have been right up your alley.
This is why you liberals will lose the house in 2010. Your out of touch with America IN A BIG WAY. Look at the healthcare thing...the nation is center-right, but you missed that, and now your pres and party are dropping liek a rock in the polls. And on Cheney and torture...nobody cares. Seriously, the independants dont care, yet you keep dragging it up. It will cost you seriously in 2010.
The nation says "Cheney and Bush protected us...end of story". They dont care bout torture.
As if the right ever gave a rat's ass about opinion polls. What proportion of the public wanted the Iraq War over with? What was Bush's response? He gave the American people the middle finger and did what he wanted to do anyways.
So please stop being hypocrites and stop your bitching and whining!
If Cheney broke the law then he should go to prison, regardless of how hypocrites feel,
Fine, keep wasting the taxpayers money on investigating old events, while our economy crumbles all around us, and watch what we independants do in the 2010 elections.
Seriously, go ahead. I know you dont believe me, so just keep doing what your doing. Keep trying to RAM healthcare down our throats. Keep wasting time talking torture. Try to give the illegals amnisty next year...go ahead!
You liberals are doing so terrible, we have already forgotten all about Bush.
Don't you know, in the US elections aren't about policies and plans. Ther are about personalities, fundraising and making billions for the marketting industry,
If American's gave a rat's ass about policies and actions they would have never elected bush the second time.
I'll say what I said before one more time for you.
Whether or not people who broke the law get prosecuted for their crimes or not really has nothing to do with your feelings.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. If Cheney is now wetting his pants because he might spend next year in prison, then he shouldn't have been involved in torture.
It's disgusting how this guy chooses to lie about national security and our effective tactics against terrorists like KSM for the sake of his own politics.
A torturer is a torturer. There is no moral difference between torturing a murderer who hasn't gone to trial and torturing an innocent.
The murderer is innocent until proven guilty in a court. It is right that was won centuries ago. The fact that the right still hasn't progressed to the level of social responsiblity from centuries ago is very telling!
I agree. Harsh interrogation techniques can be humane and effective. Torture on the other hand brings America down to a level that is degrading and sick. I am nor Republican or Democrat. I vote for what I think is right with the available options, but I am starting to regret my vote.
Notice this guy quotes from the report selectively? Why not do it to back everything up? Because he's not honest. The imminent threats argument is where he cites the report, the weakest argument he's got.
KSM wasn't bragging, he's a terrorist. He's a jihadist and wants to kill the infidel. He doesn't brag about plots, he wants them to succeed. He gave us information he figured we already had because he wanted to make it seem like he was cooperating.
This is not only total BS, in some cases it was actually the opposite of the truth.
FBI agent Ali Soufan's testimony before the senate about the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah was eye opening. He said that Abu Zubaydah was actually cooperative to begin with. Torture made him uncooperative. He just said whatever the torturers asked him to say and gave no valuable info. In fact it was during these torture sessions when Bush and Co attained some of their "evidence" connecting Al Qaeda to Iraq.
Once you can provide source and quotes then let's continue.. until then, only one of us has done so. I've posted a source and the report states as much as well regarding KSM.
Besides that, you're referring to the words of one and a few. Of all the agents, he was one to testify. Why? The left wanted what matched their opinion.
It's well known the two way rift between the FBI and CIA for territory and methodology. Each thinks they can do better.
I did provide a source. Ali Soufan's testimony. You can find it everywhere. You can find it on wikipedia's article for Abu Zubeyda for example.
Also note that your comment regarding the FBI and CIA also applies to your source.
And given the fact that the CIA is essentially the president's private army and not really accountable to anyone else, I wouldn't take their word very seriously. Their history of unethical behaviour is also another factor.
Finally: "Detainees in mid-2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals — many of who we had never heard of before — that al-Qaeda deemed suitable for Western operations,"
This guy is also putting words in KSM "if", "maybe I'd like to" etc. Those are not in the report.
It doesn't matter if they were imminent or not. I'd rather break it up sooner rather than later. Talking about risk taking otherwise.
Mohammed described plans to strike targets in Saudi Arabia, East Asia and the US after the Sept. 11 attacks, including using a network of Pakistanis "to target gas stations, railroads, the Brooklyn bridge in NY." Cross-referencing material from different detainees, and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the CIA and FBI rounded up people in the US and abroad.
"Once the harsher techniques were used on [detainees], they could be viewed as having done their duty to Islam or their cause, and their religious principles would ask no more of them," said the former official, who requested anonymity because the events are still classified. "After that point, they became compliant. Obviously, there was also an interest in being able to later say, 'I was tortured into cooperating.' "
KSM did this right off the bat to act as though he was cooperating. Told us many things we already knew. This guy doesn't say where the report claims we don't know if it was before or after we used enhanced interrogation techniques. From the Post: One former U.S. official with detailed knowledge of how the interrogations were carried out said Mohammed, like several other detainees, seemed to have decided that it was okay to stop resisting after he had endured a certain amount of pressure.
This guy is flat out not being truthful in what is in the report. Yes KSM came right out and told us of things.. but from the Washington Post:
"KSM almost immediately following his capture in March 2003 elaborated on his plan to crash commercial airlines into Heathrow airport," according to aCIA documents that summarizes the intelligence provided by Mohammed. The agency thinks he assumed that Ramzi Binalshibh, a Sept. 11 conspirator captured in September 2002, had already divulged the plan.
Whatever you have to say to yourself to make yourself feel better you do it! But always remember, by supporting torture you are in a moral/ethical equivalent of some of history's greatest monsters.
Japanese officials were sentenced to death after WWII by American judges for their use of water torture (oops I mean "water boarding as an enhanced interrogation technique")
No entity is always right based simply on it's identity. An entity is right when it consistently makes the right decisions. America once stood proudly against the use of torture. Under Bush and Cheney, we stooped to the barbaric standards of the Dark Ages. We can't be right on both counts.
Racism is fanatically unattractive. Go make friends with someone of a different color skin. Get to know them. Talk to them. Help each other. It's far better than either of you killing the other.
How could anyone support torture? How would an individual feel if their son, daughter, brother, sister etc. is tortured if they are captured in Afganistan or Iraq?
Arabs are people too and even though I do not support their actions, we must treat people as we would want to be treated, even if the other person did us wrong. Are we really aware of the things America, England and other Western countries have done to people from other countries? Look at what was done to Japan in WW2 !!!
The government documents showing the information received and whether it was received as the result of torture or as the result of more civilized techniques says you're wrong.
What would have saved thousands of American lives and hundreds of thousands of human lives would have been to think this through, to note the inconsistencies in what Rice, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were telling us, and what the evidence was telling us and to refuse to accept their war-bound agenda.
Why is it that all of the patriots who are so gung ho about going to war and torturing people and protecting our nation are the same people who ran, like cowards, from serving in the military? I am an honorably discharged Viet Nam Veteran. I volunteered! Cheney went so far as to hide under his mothers dress and when that ran out he got married and hid under his wifes dress. Cowards, discussing protecting our country or how they think we should conduct combat!
Dick is only worried about his ass only, he was in NORAD when this so call exercise was going on of planes running into towers, pentagon, white house, ( it was a drill) nothing was gotten from any water boarding, How could they know anything, He might have claimed credit,
this stuff is pure BS, this was invented By Carl to throw off the dumbed down people, the real vandals are laughing in your face.
There is no questioning of anyone's patriotism of anybody. The question is whether Dick Cheney was right when he claimed that torture would have worked.
On that case, as with most former military member in Congress, including, Sgt. Hagel, Capt. McCain, Col Lawrence and Gen Powell, I think DIck Cheney was dead wrong.
What about the Geneva Convention the U.S. is always yapping about to other countries? Human Rights etc. Imprisonments without trials. This is not the U.S. I was brought up in. How can we demand other countries abide by these things if WE don't set the example.
you are just mudding the issue in total lack of significant arguments. The discussion doesn't revolve around whether the terrorists deserve to be tortured, but whether the government used torture to gain momentum on its own political agenda. Plus: the US tortured people that are proven to be innocent; probably even the majority of them were not involved in any terroristic activity.
i agree with your "fuck the terrorists" statement. However, Dick Cheney is a goddamn domestic terrorist. He violated every US citizens' legal rights. He spit on our constitution. Do you not understand that? he is a fucking Felon and i pray to god that he ends up in jail for the rest of his life. He is the reason Bush will be remembered as the worst president in the history of the US. Cheney was running that show buddy, and he fucking blew it.
Throwing them off the top of a skyscraper would be emotionally-induced rage and anger, unleashed without the benefit of intellectual application. Justice is the avoidance of such actions.
"An eye for an eye and pretty soon we're all blind."-Gandhi
How often do you advise friends and family to dismiss logic and make decisions based on pure emotion?
Are you familiar with the difference between first and second degree murder? Second degree is that heat of the moment, instantaneous emotional out-lash resulting in a death. It's classified differently because it's so widely recognized that emotionalism leads to poor, rash, idiotic decisions.
I agree that those who plotted and attacked the WTC and Pentagon used terrorist tactics and should be punished along with any who may have facilitated their actions. And with no regard who they are or if one chooses to label them "terrorists". But Cheney and Bush should be held accountable for violating the Constitution, the Geneva Convention and American ideals. Perhaps you would agree with subjecting Cheney and Bush to water-boarding to extract the truth about claims of WMDs?
Which, by the founding principles of the United States as defined in the Constitution, makes you anti-American as well as blood-thirsty, hateful and easily deceived.
I think Cheny's a little worried right now about his future. Every time the subject is brought up publically, he suddenly gets on camera and denounces it. Then his daughter (the normal one) comes on to his defense. I mean, you could practically see the guy sweating on tv. But if he's innocent he has nothing to worry about. I say let the investigations proceed and let the ball cuttings begin!
no no no. you're wrong. the people that we tortured likely had nothing to do with those 200 people you speak about. If these people had been indicted and found guilty, THEN and only THEN do you start torturing. We can't torture people who haven't been convicted of a crime. That contradicts the foundation of our legal system. you can't make decisions purely based on emotion, or else we might as well live in WW2 Germany.
Perhaps it's reasonable to recognize that anyone who stoops to terrorist measures, is a terrorist and that terrorists cannot by definition, "unleash the dogs of war". War is one nation against another. Terrorism is an act not directly connected to the government of a nation. Perhaps we can blame Cheney and also be blaming one of the real terrorists. At the very least, such an accusation is not ruled out by the evidence. And he has not been cleared by investigation.
The real terrorist is Cheney what the hell happen to this country this man is a war criminals that should be held accountable is this still America when a evil person like him can still roam around
free throwing in our facing that he untouchable he can do whatever the hell he want that he still runs show. Wow this is amazing.
hey, Cheney is the reason ur alive, he's the reason thousands of people are alive.
People in this country are so spoiled, so stupid. Such INGRATES that they would let a man start an investigation on the very people that let THEM LIVE IN FREEDOM, the freedom to spew their collective bullshit.
Actually I'm alive because my brother joined the army along with thousands of other americans to help defend this country. Through his tyranical behavior as vp he directly put my brother and the other soldiers over seas in harm by inciting locals with necessary tactis. Not to mention you're going to lecture us on how great cheyney is? What about the information it has been shown bush and cheyney recieved days before the 9/11 attack. How about the tora bora result? Not to mention black water.
heres the simple facts, EIT is NOT torture, we gained valuable information from it that saved possibly tens of thousands, the republicans did nothing that was out of the interest of every real american, and they should be applauded for defending our freedom from bloodthirsty terrorists and the liberals who support them
I'm sorry, but if a terrorist is bragging about his killings, I would want to torture him too. I know, I know, "zero gains" and "inhumane" but it feels so primal and right. However, raping and killing innocent Iraqi girls for little reason? That's unforgivable.
Your all morons insisting on kissing your right wings ass, your idiot rednecks, and or inbreeds that insist that bush was right. Your a bunch of fuckin morons who will justify dehumanizing tactics compromising our morals, for your silly right wing ideologies. Im done, its sickening amercas full of people like you.
Torture is something you use when you don't want the truth.
AngeCord 10 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
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KristyJorgina 1 year ago
The Young Turks are America hating liberal assholes. Go listen to some Rush Limbaugh or some Glenn Beck you fucking retards.
rolla4lyfe1234 1 year ago
@rolla4lyfe1234 i realllly hope you a5re kidding.
FlyinSpaghettiMnstr7 1 year ago
@rolla4lyfe1234 You must be joking. If you are not you win as the most ridiculous dumbfuck contard of the year.
callouschristian 1 year ago
@rolla4lyfe1234
I'm a liberal, I don't hate America, I choose not to listen to Rush and Beck because they exist in echo chambers as do most of their listeners, and I'm pretty sure I'm not retarded. Chill out on the hateful assumptions dude, they have no place here as TYT is one of the best and most watched channel on YouTube. You have no idea who your talking to. For instance; I'm a young decorated veteran and I know for a fact I'm not the only liberal one able to read your clever comment.
TimmyHaag 1 year ago
@rolla4lyfe1234 Ahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Oh Dude That was a good one! Oh Jeeze That was a doozey!
Knee Slapper man.
ProRanting 1 year ago
@rolla4lyfe1234 we dont hate America, we understand there are people that have lied for so long , that it has affected people like you. Please manage to have a conversation without vulgarity, to start with.
hamrite 1 year ago
@rolla4lyfe1234 Oh well.
AdmiralCoconuts 5 months ago
dickm cheney rules.
MrNiggyPants 1 year ago
Dick Cheney has a career of doing the kind of thing that all this tortuing "other people" is about. It is a pure "biased analysis game". Punish someone else.. It means you didn't do it.... or at least that is how popular opinion is going to shake out. The status quo however it is, or whoever is running it and making it happen, it always unbelievably corrupt and truth perverting. I know: that's why they got suppression and information suppression techniques.
hypnofan35 1 year ago
IF thats true, which it is then thats a fucken lie.. Not a fuckn inaccuracy, Dick fucken cheney fucken lied.. aND if Thats a liE then wHo the FuCK is to say he was even tortured, it wouldnt make sense to even torture him if he was living out DICK fucken Cheneys LIES... Just like dick cheney was a major conspiritor in 911 and witholding ACCURATE information(FACTS) about 911... Why cant America SEE,, EVERYTHING IS A FUCKEN LIE
ryconster 1 year ago
@ryconster go on...
thebackbencher666 1 year ago
it seems that your BRAIN is jammed up your ASS
hint0122 1 year ago
i do have a brain, i am just trying ot figure out where the hell you are finding your "facts"
hint0122 1 year ago
you keep saying you know the truth. so where did you find it?
hint0122 1 year ago
i am trying to understand how you can say that without laughing. there is no way that they are all innocent Iraq and Afghanistan. do you have any proof to that?
hint0122 1 year ago
i am using my head. there is no way in hell that everyone in both Iraq and Afghanistan were innocent. maybe you should pull your head out of your ass and think
hint0122 1 year ago
you are the biggest idiot in the world.
hint0122 1 year ago
wow, are you really that dumb?
hint0122 1 year ago
KSM wasnt innocent.
hint0122 1 year ago
CHENY IS REAL HORSE DICK HEAD,
abbekhan 2 years ago
its not torture
mikebyrd42069 2 years ago
The correct grammar is not "you hates America," the correct way of writing is, "you hate America." OK! Do we have that understanding? You write like a redneck..
wateryskipper 2 years ago 5
you are a bad piece of work and a disgrace to the United States
wateryskipper 2 years ago
Nice! You racist pig!
phillipmarch22 2 years ago
Cenk for president!
oXGenesisXo 2 years ago
we already have an idiot for president
hint0122 1 year ago
Cheney was wrong about everything, so he's just doing what he does best, the wrong thing...he needs to be put in one of those detention camps and let the prisoners have their way with him...he's such a prick....
JOHNINCOLUMBUS 2 years ago
ok.
david3188col 2 years ago
lol damn im afraid of you. please just stop. Does anyone in your life take you seriously? you re a joke.
david3188col 2 years ago 2
Are you going to remove me from the country? lol again im not black but even if you wanted to get all the black people out of the U.S you cant. Youre no one. just stop and shut up already. No one cares what you think
david3188col 2 years ago
lol ok you fucking lunatic. whatever you say.
david3188col 2 years ago
lol No im not black and I think you missed that thing called "the civil war" that ended anyone owning anyone in this country you dumbass. Man do everyone a favor and kill yourself. You are exactly the type of person that we dont need in this country. You dont care about the issues you care about trivial bullshit. lol its sad.
david3188col 2 years ago
don't even worry about it....the guy is prolly a troll who thought it would be funny to cuss on the internet
Jarethenator 2 years ago
OMG!
go look at his channel....he's so racist...wow...
his background is KKK themed....
he's such an asshole......
Jarethenator 2 years ago
lol again who are you to say what belongs to who? YOU ARE NO ONE. and apparently a fucking idiot that doesnt understand what this country is about. America is bigger then what you think. luckily most people in this country dont think the same mental way you do.
david3188col 2 years ago
lol who the fuck are you to say whos country it is? you're just a pathetic racists human being. Your no one.
david3188col 2 years ago
and that's exactly why we gave him those bio and chem weapons and knew full well that he used them on his own people...
hmmm... what was that bush say about aiding and abetting??
elnegrobembon 2 years ago
lol this is my country too. Why dont you get out. And how surprising you're racists. lol
david3188col 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
haha stupid 13 year old boy.
masterjewbear 2 years ago
lol think before you posts comments. You make yourself look like an idiot. What kind of insult or comback is that?
david3188col 2 years ago
I love how all these conservatives are like "YEA OBAMA IS RUINING THIS COUNTRY AND THE ECONOMY" now my question is where were you during the bush administration?
hhmspotatohead2 2 years ago
Way to master the english language, warbound05.
morsleyg 2 years ago
No... I think your wrong. A lot.
Blowb666 2 years ago
sooo we never found any wmd's...we never found so much as a single anthrax baccillus.
sooo bush lied about the threat. he deceived the american people and the world in order to make israel feel more secure. or to finish what his father started, or for what ever off the wall reason. here's a clue: never let the government tell you who to hate. who to fear. who to fight.
choose your enemies like you choose your friends. and trust no-one. sadly this plan might not work for most americans
sonderkommando2 2 years ago
Trolls on youtube? i prefer forums, much more challenging.
lance2155 2 years ago
man u cracker ass wonderbread lookin piece of shit y dont u go get some jelly to stick up ur pussy
that will give u something to do insted of bein racist u fuuuckin chod suckin son of a dipshit
Ravenholmboy3 2 years ago
Ravenholmboy2,
That actually sounds like a very good idea. He's already lost every point he's tried to make because he can't support any of them. I think I'll just let him ramble to himself for a while. Hopefully, he won't get bored and wander the streets with a gun looking for someone with dark skin to murder.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
French inspectors, approved by the U.N. of which this country claims to be a member found there were no WMDs. When we tell another member country they lack sufficient cause for war, we expect them to listen. But when the U.N. told Bush he lacked sufficient cause for war, he violated U.N. membership, broke ranks, and declared an illegal war. The U.N. was right. There were no WMD. Bush admitted that. Now it's time for you to admit it. Put your toy gun down. You'll put your eye out.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
No, it was confirmed several times that he didn't have any WMDs. That was confirmed even before we went to war by French inspectors. But Bush wanted a war and he didn't really care whether Iraq was a threat or not. It has also been publicly admitted that Iraq is known to have nothing to do with 9/11. 15 of the 19 supposed hi-jackers are Saudi and Bush is friends with the Saudis. The evidence just doesn't line up as you well know because insistant as you are, you can't explain it.
Beastt17 2 years ago
Comment removed
Ravenholmboy3 2 years ago
He Didn't have any WMD's! We basically raped their country and found absolutely nothing! Where would he even be able to get nukes strong enough to shoot half way around the world? He couldn't have! He didn't!
cheeseleader09 2 years ago
warbound05,
You're emphasizing the fact that it only occurred at the WTC. You have no other examples. You have only a failed, biased and warped opinion and on that alone, you want the rest of the world to excuse the guilty parties from their crimes and follow their lead in punishing the innocent.
You must certainly be a Christian where punishing the innocent in place of the guilty is seen as "justice".
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
Give me an instance of a large plane striking a steel skyscraper and taking it down. A B25 flew into the Empire State Building, one engine ripped from the wing, crashed through the building and fell to the sidewalk below. The fire burned for around 90-minutes. The towers were built to withstand strikes from airliners. Never in the history of steel structures has one EVER fallen to fire. And yet on 9/11 it happened to three, all on the same day, and one wasn't even hit by a plane.
Beastt17 2 years ago
Don't you people get it? Warbound is a troll. He/she will say ANYTHING that will cause all of you to pay attention . Warbound doe'n't believe in ANYTHING but pissing you off . Watch what the asshole does about this post.
Iohgilbert 2 years ago
lohgilbert,
You're probably right. Perhaps his daddy didn't set the parental controls on the family computer before going to work.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
This marks the FOURTH time you have refused to address the evidence. Can there be any doubt that you realize you have no point from which to argue? It is apparent even to you that the official report is inconsistent with the evidence. And that which is inconsistent with the evidence is never the truth. Yet, for the sake of your seething desire to murder, to destroy and to spread suffering and hatred across the planet, you deny even that which you cannot hope to refute.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
So now you're denying what even Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the National Security and Intelligence services readily admit? Saddam did not WMD, nor did he have a delivery system capable of threatening the U.S. if he'd had them.
You need a wake-up call. Anyone can see by your user name that you take great pride in killing others. You see it as a point of pride and glory. And that, outlines the sadness and sickness of a mentality such as yours.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
Perhaps you aren't keeping up with information. Saddam didn't have any nukes. He said he didn't. Bush swore he did. Then Bush made surrender of the nukes he didn't have a condition of avoiding war. Saddam couldn't surrender what he didn't have. So we went to war under false pretenses, put Iraq in a no-win situation, killed nearly a million of their citizens simply for defending against an illegal invasion, and now you're bragging about it.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
I've yet to see you produce a single constructive argument here. All you do is assault anyone with whom you disagree with a string of insults and profanity. If you had an argument, one might expect you would present it.
Why didn't they photograph and tag the evidence at the Pentagon? Instead they had people (who weren't even gloved), wandering around picking up debris, no photos, no tagging, no clipboards and no marking of locations. Then they covered the area with loads of gravel.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
You seem to think there is honor in helping to cover the tracks of the guilty parties. And what's worse, you let them do the investigation on their own criminal acts, then support their findings, even when you've helped to demonstrate that those findings are far from credible. You can't justify them, nor can they. Yet you want to continue killing, just to kill. Why did they immediately bury all of the evidence at the Pentagon under a thick layer of gravel?
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
You have now ducked the evidence for the THIRD time. There is little doubt that you know perfectly well you can't address any of it and hold onto your pet conspiracy theory.
The really sad thing is that you don't care if the people being punished were guilty or if those punishing them are the truly guilty parties. And such a complete disregard for justice does far more to harm this country than being certain of our actions ever could.
Beastt17 2 years ago
Going into Iraq is not the proper punishment though, as Bush and Cheney have both stated that Iraq and 9/11 are completely separate. It was Saudi's that committed the twin tower's bombings.
cheeseleader09 2 years ago
This is his job. Actually, this is a radio show that is played on Sirius XM. This dudes way past Wendy's.
cheeseleader09 2 years ago
Happy the justice dept will investigate the Bush, Cheney era!!!!
photo986 2 years ago
dude shut the fuck up. ur in Hill State Elementary School. u dont know shit . so go back to school and learn how to be a good person
Ravenholmboy3 2 years ago
Warbound05. if i send this comment to my cousin. hes gonna bust yo ass . hes in the compton Crips. and hes half black
Ravenholmboy3 2 years ago
jeez. man read the bible first and reply me back. stupid you dont even know Shit!
Ravenholmboy3 2 years ago
warbound05 did u ever read the bible? it says jesus was clearly a jew. if u see he was born by a Jewish Woman. Mary . now go read the bible and get some information u need
Ravenholmboy3 2 years ago
oh i was thinking i should send this to all black people i know and channels.
Ravenholmboy3 2 years ago
warbound05,
Why did George W Bush, Condolezza Rice, Dick Cheney and Robert Mueller all make separate television announcements assuring the public no one in government could have imagined planes being hijacked and flown into buildings when NORAD documents show they had trained for precisely that kind of scenario? It seems you don't care if the guilty parties are brought to justice or not. You're just happy as long as we're bombing the crap out of somebody... ANYBODY, in retaliation.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
Why was a 600-ton piece of steel blown sideways, all the way across the street, into another building? Why does the video show debris from one of the towers being thrust several stories upward as the collapse begins? Why do people inside the buildings report a blast from below (the basement area), BEFORE the plane struck above them? Why wasn't there a single drop of blood to be found for examination at Shanksville? Where did two, 6-ton Rolls Royce jet engines vanish to?
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
While you're busy ignoring that evidence, you can avoid asking why none of the hi-jackers names appear on any of the released passenger manifests (there aren't even any middle-eastern names). And why did tests only manage 4-inches of distortion when the official report requires over 40-inches to explain the collapse? Why did NORAD fail 4-times in the same day after flying 67 100% successful hi-jack missions in the previous year? These questions need answers.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
It would seem your understanding of common words is somewhat lacking. Nineteen men hi-jacking 4-airliners and purposely flying them into buildings IS a conspiracy. However, the official conspiracy theory is inconsistent with the evidence. Why did Building 7 fall? The official report doesn't even mention that it did. Why did it have tons of molten steel in the basement, just like the towers? Why won't the government release any of the 86 videos showing what happened at the Pentagon?
Beastt17 2 years ago
All of the public defense from Cheney and others of these methods completely misses the point, and it simply reflects the complete moral blind spot that the previous administration suffered from.
We, as a respected democracy in the world, simply aren't supposed to be doing things like this to people.
It's widely held that these techniques don't work to obtain credible information...but that doesn't matter. I don't care if they worked 100%. There are things that America DOES NOT DO.
GretchenDawntreader 2 years ago
if dick cheney was a patriot maybe he would have just gone to vietnam like all of the other patriots instead of being a little baby and hiding from his obligations. there is nothing patriotic about dick cheney
blugrastooth 2 years ago
warbound05,
Please acquaint yourself with argumentum ad populum. It's also known as the fallacy of popularity because you're basing your entire argument upon it and it's called a "fallacy" for a reason.
In the end only the evidence matters and the evidence tells us clearly that the official report is wrong. Even NIST and FEMA couldn't offer much support for the official report. Until you've looked at the evidence, your opinion means very little and it's clear you haven't looked.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
It doesn't matter what percentage of who believes what. Did it matter when most of the world thought the Earth was flat? The majority of people once held a geocentric view of the solar system.
But the numbers are far from your claim. In a WorldPublicOpinion poll of 17 nations, on avg, 46 percent say that al Qaeda was behind the attacks while 15 percent say it as the US government. But the evidence is more than just opinion and it supports the claim that the official report is wrong.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
Okay, now you're pulling numbers out of thin air and none of them are even close to accurate. Secondly, there are too many people like yourself who will never actually look at the evidence. Instead you simply line up with the other sheep as you're lead to slaughter and insist that anyone who actually takes a critical look must be insane. Perhaps worst of all you resort to argumentum ad populum because you have nothing else. You don't know the evidence and you won't learn.
Beastt17 2 years ago
warbound05,
So, for the second time you fail to address even one piece of evidence, yet you insist that I must be wrong, physicists must be wrong, demolitions experts must be wrong and a coalition of engineers and architects must be wrong. But you demonstrate your vulnerability and you're recognition that you can't present an argument and you reveal that through your defensive tone, your use of profanity and your uncontrolled rage for what you can't refute.
Beastt17 2 years ago
The problem with torure is that it turns the "war on terror" An eye for an eye fight.
The soldier or reporter captured and tortured to death is an act of retatilion. We are America! We have laws we have Standards! And thats what makes us better than them. Why we will always be better. This is a stain on our flag and nation. Toture is nothing but a sick form of 'Punishment' to quench that thurst for revenge we all feel, But we never act on. Because we are better than that!
Therealoutrageus 2 years ago
The day Terrorist start making bombs with clocks on them is the day they start tying blonde women to train tracks.
Therealoutrageus 2 years ago
If the GOP does not disolve the winner take all rule, then they will always get a moderate (NeoCon) like Bush, McCain etc. We will not see a real conservative win like that.
Reagan was the last conservative president we had. Before him, you have to go back to the 1920's to find one (Calvin Cooledge). Yes, the GOP primaries are very broken.
calimar28 2 years ago
The RNC knows that in 'winner take all" states, the two conservatives (there will always be 2 percieved conservatives running) will split the vote, leaving the moderate to "take the whole state". That's how McCain won after Romney split the vote with Huckabee. Huckabee is no conservative, Romney is barley.
THe RNC likes this set-up cause it ensures a moderate (the 2 Bush's) will always win. That means free trade deals and open borders. That's what the RNC likes.
calimar28 2 years ago
warbound05,
Note that you never address 58-tons of missing aircraft. You never mention a 60-ton lumbering passenger jet defeating the defense system of the most secure air-space existing anywhere in the world and you completely ignore the total absurdity behind the idea of a skyscraper falling as a result of a few small internal fires on a handful of its floors... because you can't. Even reports by NIST and FEMA could not present any degree of credibility for the explanations you accept.
Beastt17 2 years ago
This speaker has his facts wrong.
Khalid Sheik Mohammed told NOTHING before being waterboarded, everything after.
Yes, maybe other techniques would have worked, but that's speculation. The fact is we tried other techniques that did not work before we tried waterboarding. So there is good reason to suspect that waterboarding was uniquely successful in divulging information that prevented terrorism and saved lives.
Cheney was right...
MountAthos 2 years ago
MountAthos,
I note that while you proclaim that someone reading the official report is wrong, you provide no source for your claim. What do you base your assertion on? Is it simply your emotional knee-jerk response to learning you were wrong?
Beastt17 2 years ago
Why are leftists always allergic to facts?
Please read Washington Post article titled How a Detainee Became An Asset, august 29th. Read the WHOLE story because the key facts that vindicate Cheney are towards the end.
"What do you think changed KSM's mind?" one former senior intelligence official said this week after being asked about the effect of waterboarding. "Of course it began with that."
I challenge you to read the whole article. I can promise you that this speaker didn't.
MountAthos 2 years ago
MountAthos,
Why do some have the need to apply labels to people rather than simply address their comments and questions? I'll tell you why. It saves you the trouble of having to assess each individuals ideas separately. Instead you categorize them (often inaccurately), and address them as a thing, rather than a person.
So we have an official report which disagrees with a newspaper article. Why does the article in the newspaper speak with greater authority than the official report?
Beastt17 2 years ago
Your reading comprehension is poor.
The information in the article comes directly from the official report.
Sorry to see that facts make you so uncomfortable.
MountAthos 2 years ago
MountAthos,
My reading comprehension is fine. I had a question about the article vs the official report and I asked the question. You offered an answer, 'nuff said?
I'm not at all uncomfortable with facts. I am, however, very uncomfortable with people who will draw no ethical guidelines, just so long as they get what they want. That's what the terrorists do and we find them to be in the wrong. If we then use the same tactics, we're no better than they. One does not fight terror by terrorizing.
Beastt17 2 years ago
I see, you are comparing me to a terrorist because I pointed out facts that challenge your ideologically held views.
Hopefully you'll remember to take your medication tomorrow.
MountAthos 2 years ago
MountAthmos,
No, I'm comparing you to terrorists because you're promoting the use of terrorist tactics.
Beastt17 2 years ago
So now you know...it wasnt that we thought Obama was good, it was that we thought we needed to avoid McCain, who is bad.
Cenk will tell you "oh, the nation is liberal and to the left", which I think you know is ridiculous, if your objective. It's just like Cenk saying "pass public option or else the house will lose their seats". The House will lose them anyway, so Cenk is trying to get a libreal bill passed before it happens, thats all. Think for yourself.
Spin also comes from the left
calimar28 2 years ago
calimar28,
As sad as it is, I have to admit you're correct. Obama was selected only as the single alternative to McCain who was, before the end of his campaign, promising us another 4-years of Bushism.
I'd rather have the lesser of two evils, than the evil of two lessers.
Beastt17 2 years ago
Agreed.
As much as I disagreed with liberal philosophy, I didnt vote McCain, I couldnt bring myself to, and many of my independant friends said the same. McCain is the worst canidate I have ever seen the RNC put up, and that is saying something. He's awful.
It amazes me that Cenk doesnt see this. He actually thinks the nation is center-left, even after these town hall meetings!
The voters in Florida who made McCain the canidate should be ashamend. The "winner take all" rule is bad.
calimar28 2 years ago
warbound05,
Sixty-ton aircraft do not melt into 2-tons of rubble. One does not fly a lumbering (relatively slow), huge commercial aircraft into the most protected airspace on the planet, and succeed unless aided by those behind the defense systems and steel structures do not fall to fire.
Before squealing with delight at popping the head off your target, the wise gunner is first certain of his intended target.
Beastt17 2 years ago
Change "Muslims" with "Jews" and you got yourself a classic Nazi one-liner!
Morally of course you are no better than a Neo Nazi. The only difference is who you pick as your target.
poyani 2 years ago 2
rahrahrah drillbabydrill rahrahrah
dukenthaylor 2 years ago
You won in congress and the presidency, because the nation had Bush fatigue. He was an awful president, and many independant conservatives dis-liked him because he was too liberal! Espicially on spending and the border...and the war. Thats why Obama won...by default really.
You mistook it to mean the nation went center-left. Trust me you couldnt be more wrong. Cenk is doing you no favors by telling you that.
calimar28 2 years ago
Obama won because Bush was too Liberal? So conservatives prefer a Liberal candidate to a moderate conservative (which he was not - he was an outright fascist just like you).
Must be more of that conservative logic.
poyani 2 years ago
let me explain real slow so you can understand. Since Cenk will spin it, and the right will spin it, you wont know the truth. Here it is...
We were angry at Bush for ther liberal act of leavign open the borders, free trade deals, and the war...yes, the war in Iraq is something we used to see from the left. McCain was EXACTLY the same as Bush on those issues. So we lost interest. Obama won by default...we thought he would at least keep us from bombing Iran or going to war agaisnt Russia.
calimar28 2 years ago
calimar28,
I will disagree with you on just one of your statements and then, only partially. Bush didn't leave the borders open. He dissolved them with the North American Union. And he did so without the consent or knowledge of the American people he was supposed to represent.
Beastt17 2 years ago
If you felt this way you shouldn't have let Obama win by default. Obama is not that much different from Bush. You should have voted for someone like Ron Paul who seems to have been right up your alley.
poyani 2 years ago
This is why you liberals will lose the house in 2010. Your out of touch with America IN A BIG WAY. Look at the healthcare thing...the nation is center-right, but you missed that, and now your pres and party are dropping liek a rock in the polls. And on Cheney and torture...nobody cares. Seriously, the independants dont care, yet you keep dragging it up. It will cost you seriously in 2010.
The nation says "Cheney and Bush protected us...end of story". They dont care bout torture.
calimar28 2 years ago
As if the right ever gave a rat's ass about opinion polls. What proportion of the public wanted the Iraq War over with? What was Bush's response? He gave the American people the middle finger and did what he wanted to do anyways.
So please stop being hypocrites and stop your bitching and whining!
If Cheney broke the law then he should go to prison, regardless of how hypocrites feel,
poyani 2 years ago 2
Fine, keep wasting the taxpayers money on investigating old events, while our economy crumbles all around us, and watch what we independants do in the 2010 elections.
Seriously, go ahead. I know you dont believe me, so just keep doing what your doing. Keep trying to RAM healthcare down our throats. Keep wasting time talking torture. Try to give the illegals amnisty next year...go ahead!
You liberals are doing so terrible, we have already forgotten all about Bush.
calimar28 2 years ago
Don't you know, in the US elections aren't about policies and plans. Ther are about personalities, fundraising and making billions for the marketting industry,
If American's gave a rat's ass about policies and actions they would have never elected bush the second time.
poyani 2 years ago
I'll say what I said before one more time for you.
Whether or not people who broke the law get prosecuted for their crimes or not really has nothing to do with your feelings.
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time. If Cheney is now wetting his pants because he might spend next year in prison, then he shouldn't have been involved in torture.
How you feel about that really isn't relevant.
poyani 2 years ago
It's disgusting how this guy chooses to lie about national security and our effective tactics against terrorists like KSM for the sake of his own politics.
MenaceFan 2 years ago
Also it is important to note that even if it had worked (which it didn't) torture is NEVER justified.
It is sickening that there are people who are actually even making the argument.
poyani 2 years ago
You can continue to say it didn't but the fact is the report states that it did. KSM eventually sang.
Look, I'm sure that posts like your's plays well on ridiculous far left sites like Democratic Undergound but not in the real world.
The comfort of one disgusting terrorist killer is not worth the deaths of others.
Again, ever man has a breaking point and I support finding where that is for each terrorist.
MenaceFan 2 years ago
A torturer is a torturer. There is no moral difference between torturing a murderer who hasn't gone to trial and torturing an innocent.
The murderer is innocent until proven guilty in a court. It is right that was won centuries ago. The fact that the right still hasn't progressed to the level of social responsiblity from centuries ago is very telling!
poyani 2 years ago 2
I agree. Harsh interrogation techniques can be humane and effective. Torture on the other hand brings America down to a level that is degrading and sick. I am nor Republican or Democrat. I vote for what I think is right with the available options, but I am starting to regret my vote.
yeahsee33 2 years ago
Notice this guy quotes from the report selectively? Why not do it to back everything up? Because he's not honest. The imminent threats argument is where he cites the report, the weakest argument he's got.
KSM wasn't bragging, he's a terrorist. He's a jihadist and wants to kill the infidel. He doesn't brag about plots, he wants them to succeed. He gave us information he figured we already had because he wanted to make it seem like he was cooperating.
Once we broke him, he fully cooperated.
MenaceFan 2 years ago
This is not only total BS, in some cases it was actually the opposite of the truth.
FBI agent Ali Soufan's testimony before the senate about the interrogation of Abu Zubaydah was eye opening. He said that Abu Zubaydah was actually cooperative to begin with. Torture made him uncooperative. He just said whatever the torturers asked him to say and gave no valuable info. In fact it was during these torture sessions when Bush and Co attained some of their "evidence" connecting Al Qaeda to Iraq.
poyani 2 years ago
Once you can provide source and quotes then let's continue.. until then, only one of us has done so. I've posted a source and the report states as much as well regarding KSM.
Besides that, you're referring to the words of one and a few. Of all the agents, he was one to testify. Why? The left wanted what matched their opinion.
It's well known the two way rift between the FBI and CIA for territory and methodology. Each thinks they can do better.
Every man has a breaking point.
MenaceFan 2 years ago
I did provide a source. Ali Soufan's testimony. You can find it everywhere. You can find it on wikipedia's article for Abu Zubeyda for example.
Also note that your comment regarding the FBI and CIA also applies to your source.
And given the fact that the CIA is essentially the president's private army and not really accountable to anyone else, I wouldn't take their word very seriously. Their history of unethical behaviour is also another factor.
poyani 2 years ago
Finally: "Detainees in mid-2003 helped us build a list of 70 individuals — many of who we had never heard of before — that al-Qaeda deemed suitable for Western operations,"
This guy is also putting words in KSM "if", "maybe I'd like to" etc. Those are not in the report.
It doesn't matter if they were imminent or not. I'd rather break it up sooner rather than later. Talking about risk taking otherwise.
MenaceFan 2 years ago
Mohammed described plans to strike targets in Saudi Arabia, East Asia and the US after the Sept. 11 attacks, including using a network of Pakistanis "to target gas stations, railroads, the Brooklyn bridge in NY." Cross-referencing material from different detainees, and leveraging information from one to extract more detail from another, the CIA and FBI rounded up people in the US and abroad.
MenaceFan 2 years ago
More from the post:
"Once the harsher techniques were used on [detainees], they could be viewed as having done their duty to Islam or their cause, and their religious principles would ask no more of them," said the former official, who requested anonymity because the events are still classified. "After that point, they became compliant. Obviously, there was also an interest in being able to later say, 'I was tortured into cooperating.' "
MenaceFan 2 years ago
KSM did this right off the bat to act as though he was cooperating. Told us many things we already knew. This guy doesn't say where the report claims we don't know if it was before or after we used enhanced interrogation techniques. From the Post: One former U.S. official with detailed knowledge of how the interrogations were carried out said Mohammed, like several other detainees, seemed to have decided that it was okay to stop resisting after he had endured a certain amount of pressure.
MenaceFan 2 years ago
This guy is flat out not being truthful in what is in the report. Yes KSM came right out and told us of things.. but from the Washington Post:
"KSM almost immediately following his capture in March 2003 elaborated on his plan to crash commercial airlines into Heathrow airport," according to aCIA documents that summarizes the intelligence provided by Mohammed. The agency thinks he assumed that Ramzi Binalshibh, a Sept. 11 conspirator captured in September 2002, had already divulged the plan.
MenaceFan 2 years ago
Whatever you have to say to yourself to make yourself feel better you do it! But always remember, by supporting torture you are in a moral/ethical equivalent of some of history's greatest monsters.
Japanese officials were sentenced to death after WWII by American judges for their use of water torture (oops I mean "water boarding as an enhanced interrogation technique")
poyani 2 years ago
warbound05,
No entity is always right based simply on it's identity. An entity is right when it consistently makes the right decisions. America once stood proudly against the use of torture. Under Bush and Cheney, we stooped to the barbaric standards of the Dark Ages. We can't be right on both counts.
Racism is fanatically unattractive. Go make friends with someone of a different color skin. Get to know them. Talk to them. Help each other. It's far better than either of you killing the other.
Beastt17 2 years ago
How could anyone support torture? How would an individual feel if their son, daughter, brother, sister etc. is tortured if they are captured in Afganistan or Iraq?
Arabs are people too and even though I do not support their actions, we must treat people as we would want to be treated, even if the other person did us wrong. Are we really aware of the things America, England and other Western countries have done to people from other countries? Look at what was done to Japan in WW2 !!!
tarpumpphillips 2 years ago
I'm thankful they tortured arabs. It saved thousands of American lives.
stud007ful 2 years ago
who say so, the torturers?, you'r right
jormorecast 2 years ago
stud007ful,
The government documents showing the information received and whether it was received as the result of torture or as the result of more civilized techniques says you're wrong.
What would have saved thousands of American lives and hundreds of thousands of human lives would have been to think this through, to note the inconsistencies in what Rice, Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were telling us, and what the evidence was telling us and to refuse to accept their war-bound agenda.
Beastt17 2 years ago
Why is it that all of the patriots who are so gung ho about going to war and torturing people and protecting our nation are the same people who ran, like cowards, from serving in the military? I am an honorably discharged Viet Nam Veteran. I volunteered! Cheney went so far as to hide under his mothers dress and when that ran out he got married and hid under his wifes dress. Cowards, discussing protecting our country or how they think we should conduct combat!
ABLKMAN2KNOW 2 years ago
dick cheney should be in jail for the rest of his life. Do you think all Felons are Patriots or just him?
blugrastooth 2 years ago
Dick is only worried about his ass only, he was in NORAD when this so call exercise was going on of planes running into towers, pentagon, white house, ( it was a drill) nothing was gotten from any water boarding, How could they know anything, He might have claimed credit,
this stuff is pure BS, this was invented By Carl to throw off the dumbed down people, the real vandals are laughing in your face.
freepress666 2 years ago
Cheney wants the CIA to behave like the Gestapo.
Dragonfly6160 2 years ago
There is no questioning of anyone's patriotism of anybody. The question is whether Dick Cheney was right when he claimed that torture would have worked.
On that case, as with most former military member in Congress, including, Sgt. Hagel, Capt. McCain, Col Lawrence and Gen Powell, I think DIck Cheney was dead wrong.
SlashingTongue 2 years ago
What about the Geneva Convention the U.S. is always yapping about to other countries? Human Rights etc. Imprisonments without trials. This is not the U.S. I was brought up in. How can we demand other countries abide by these things if WE don't set the example.
lyerlyman 2 years ago
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llorttnaig 2 years ago
you are just mudding the issue in total lack of significant arguments. The discussion doesn't revolve around whether the terrorists deserve to be tortured, but whether the government used torture to gain momentum on its own political agenda. Plus: the US tortured people that are proven to be innocent; probably even the majority of them were not involved in any terroristic activity.
charms2 2 years ago
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llorttnaig 2 years ago
i agree with your "fuck the terrorists" statement. However, Dick Cheney is a goddamn domestic terrorist. He violated every US citizens' legal rights. He spit on our constitution. Do you not understand that? he is a fucking Felon and i pray to god that he ends up in jail for the rest of his life. He is the reason Bush will be remembered as the worst president in the history of the US. Cheney was running that show buddy, and he fucking blew it.
blugrastooth 2 years ago
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llorttnaig 2 years ago
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llorttnaig 2 years ago 2
llorttnaig,
Throwing them off the top of a skyscraper would be emotionally-induced rage and anger, unleashed without the benefit of intellectual application. Justice is the avoidance of such actions.
Beastt17 2 years ago
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llorttnaig 2 years ago
llorttnaig,
"An eye for an eye and pretty soon we're all blind."-Gandhi
How often do you advise friends and family to dismiss logic and make decisions based on pure emotion?
Are you familiar with the difference between first and second degree murder? Second degree is that heat of the moment, instantaneous emotional out-lash resulting in a death. It's classified differently because it's so widely recognized that emotionalism leads to poor, rash, idiotic decisions.
Notice my unemotional tone?
Beastt17 2 years ago
llorttnaig,
I agree that those who plotted and attacked the WTC and Pentagon used terrorist tactics and should be punished along with any who may have facilitated their actions. And with no regard who they are or if one chooses to label them "terrorists". But Cheney and Bush should be held accountable for violating the Constitution, the Geneva Convention and American ideals. Perhaps you would agree with subjecting Cheney and Bush to water-boarding to extract the truth about claims of WMDs?
Beastt17 2 years ago
I'm thankful for all the dead arabs. Go USA! Kill them all!
stud007ful 2 years ago
stud007ful,
Which, by the founding principles of the United States as defined in the Constitution, makes you anti-American as well as blood-thirsty, hateful and easily deceived.
Beastt17 2 years ago
Nope. Just grateful.
stud007ful 2 years ago
I think Cheny's a little worried right now about his future. Every time the subject is brought up publically, he suddenly gets on camera and denounces it. Then his daughter (the normal one) comes on to his defense. I mean, you could practically see the guy sweating on tv. But if he's innocent he has nothing to worry about. I say let the investigations proceed and let the ball cuttings begin!
Piglatinsuperstar 2 years ago
no no no. you're wrong. the people that we tortured likely had nothing to do with those 200 people you speak about. If these people had been indicted and found guilty, THEN and only THEN do you start torturing. We can't torture people who haven't been convicted of a crime. That contradicts the foundation of our legal system. you can't make decisions purely based on emotion, or else we might as well live in WW2 Germany.
blugrastooth 2 years ago
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llorttnaig 2 years ago
llorttnaig,
Perhaps it's reasonable to recognize that anyone who stoops to terrorist measures, is a terrorist and that terrorists cannot by definition, "unleash the dogs of war". War is one nation against another. Terrorism is an act not directly connected to the government of a nation. Perhaps we can blame Cheney and also be blaming one of the real terrorists. At the very least, such an accusation is not ruled out by the evidence. And he has not been cleared by investigation.
Beastt17 2 years ago
The real terrorist is Cheney what the hell happen to this country this man is a war criminals that should be held accountable is this still America when a evil person like him can still roam around
free throwing in our facing that he untouchable he can do whatever the hell he want that he still runs show. Wow this is amazing.
TheIraqveteran 2 years ago
hey, Cheney is the reason ur alive, he's the reason thousands of people are alive.
People in this country are so spoiled, so stupid. Such INGRATES that they would let a man start an investigation on the very people that let THEM LIVE IN FREEDOM, the freedom to spew their collective bullshit.
btwall60 2 years ago
Actually I'm alive because my brother joined the army along with thousands of other americans to help defend this country. Through his tyranical behavior as vp he directly put my brother and the other soldiers over seas in harm by inciting locals with necessary tactis. Not to mention you're going to lecture us on how great cheyney is? What about the information it has been shown bush and cheyney recieved days before the 9/11 attack. How about the tora bora result? Not to mention black water.
Xaklyth 2 years ago
your funny, how long have you been a stand-up comedian?
kdense08 2 years ago
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btwall60 2 years ago
Hey Cheney!
tic toc... tic toc...
your time is running out.
Silberdachs 2 years ago
"follow masonic order's" that expains alot. You must live with leprichauns and ride a unicorn to work at santa's workshop.
wessiderider187 2 years ago
heres the simple facts, EIT is NOT torture, we gained valuable information from it that saved possibly tens of thousands, the republicans did nothing that was out of the interest of every real american, and they should be applauded for defending our freedom from bloodthirsty terrorists and the liberals who support them
hatesleebrals 2 years ago
cheney should be interrogated aggressively.
We need to be protected from evil people like him.
All of this controversy is just a distraction from the other evil and greedy biz that was carried out.
we have been fooled. We are all fools. and we vote like fools.
Please don't tax me, I'm trying to be rich and greedy.
we americans are fat, pig, greedy consumers of resources.
Do us a favor and jail these criminals. If we don't punish we consent. why should anyone respect us?
perrosdemaiz 2 years ago 3
We didn't torture during WWII, so why were we torturing then after these other, moral, methods had been proven to work and the torture unnecessary?
Exuat 2 years ago
I'm sorry, but if a terrorist is bragging about his killings, I would want to torture him too. I know, I know, "zero gains" and "inhumane" but it feels so primal and right. However, raping and killing innocent Iraqi girls for little reason? That's unforgivable.
Windaquer 2 years ago
Your all morons insisting on kissing your right wings ass, your idiot rednecks, and or inbreeds that insist that bush was right. Your a bunch of fuckin morons who will justify dehumanizing tactics compromising our morals, for your silly right wing ideologies. Im done, its sickening amercas full of people like you.
No wonder the world is loosing faith in us.
matteomcgegor1 2 years ago 3
This is a vile channel. It's nice to see al Qaeda using this huckster to produce their arguments. What a disaster this jerk is.
BluTri10 2 years ago