DIY XGA LED Projector 3xLCD lamp replacement 25 lumen 720p (part-2)

[scuba60056]

How many LUMENS did you get for Watts IE 100W LED = 4000 Lumens Something like that

What wattage did you use? Would you use larger or smaller or same wattage?

Is the LCD a HOT or a Warm white LCD? Wave length used? That is if you still have the information.

If you purchased the LED on EBAY... Do you still have a link to the item or seller or like item?

Thanks you saved me and I am sure many others throwing out projectors needing new out of stock bulbs.

[electrodacus]

@scuba60056 PART1: I used the LED that where available at the time see description on the first part of this video SSC-P7 on the Telex projector and on this Toshiba I used the CREE MC-E.

I recommend the CREE XML is about 10$ on eBay no other LED will work better is a 10W LED with 1000 lumen output and a 2x2mm die size this is important no larger size will work since you will not be able to collect the light and get that under plus minus 3 degree.

[electrodacus]

@scuba60056 PART2: The LED's I used where at about 6 to 7W probably about 500 to 600 lumen output from the LED and the projector output was about 25 lumen.

That is as good as you can expect no more than 40 to 50 lumen out of projector from 1000lumen 10W CREE XML LED.

You can not use large power LED because of the die size and multiple LED's will be hard to get in that small place also the lens take some space.

About color temperature I find best to be 5000 to 7000 Kelvin.

[drtarik33]

and you said in the video that the power suply you used is a 15v for PC, and the voltage for the LED is 13.4 or something like that, but when I see the data sheet for the MC-E, the VF is 3.0-3.3Volt, so its 13 or 3V? I am confused I am sorry, I want to get this XM-L T6 its very good but I dont know what to use to power it?

please help me.

[electrodacus]

@drtarik33 The MC-E has 4 LED die and you can connect them in parallel and voltage drop on LED will be 3V or you can connect them in series for about 4 x 3V = 12V voltage drop.

The XM-L only have one die so the voltage drop will be about 3V to 3.2V but this is not that important for an LED what is important is the max current and in the case of XM-L is 3A.

You need constant current power supply for LED not constant voltage and you will need an LED driver is a better than resistor.

[drtarik33]

@electrodacus

yes I see now, so what I will do is to use 3 to 4 (3.7v NOKIA)cellphone adapter in parallel to get about 2.8A and stay in the same voltage3.7 or so.

you think this will work??

if not what driver do you recommend.

I am sorry to bother you, but you did a good job...! BRAVO...

[electrodacus]

@drtarik33 I already made another replay see the other comment I recommended a driver you can not use the a cellphone adapter.

You either need a constant current driver or a resistor in series with the LED calculated based on input voltage to limit the current.

Say you have a 5V 4A AC adapter and at 3A the CREE has a voltage drop of about 3.35V so 5 - 3.35V = 1.65V will drop on resistor and 1.65V / 3A = 0.55 ohm and power 1.65W * 3A = 4.95W so you need 0.55ohm 10W resistor.

[drtarik33]

@electrodacus

yes yes, I saw your replay now about the LED driver, it's very useful, so with this driver (eBay item 320819055152) I can set the Voltage to 3.2V and set the curent to 3A, right?

[electrodacus]

@drtarik33 you need to set the voltage higher to about 3.5V since the constant current 3A will take care to give to the LED just 3.35V or whatever he needs at 3A.

If you set the voltage at 3.2 is no problem but the current will probably be lower say 2.7A or so.

For LED voltage drop is just a characteristic of the LED if you set current at 3A the voltage drop will be about 3.25V and if you set at 700mA voltage drop will be about 2.9V with a different LED you may get 3.4V at 700mA.

[drtarik33]

@electrodacus

thank you for your time, I will get my MT4 Toshiba in about 2-4days, and I will start to mod it in the mean while I will bye this driver and the XM-L T6, and ready to go for more than 10 years of usage.

thank you for the video and the explanation and all, you a good man.

[electrodacus]

@drtarik33 Is a bit hard to find an LED driver for this 3A LED's but you can use something like this eBay item 320819055152 and you will need a 5V or 9V AC-DC adapter able to provide at least 2.5A if is 5V or 1.5A if is 9V not sure if 5V will be enough the voltage drop on that DC-DC converter is not mentioned so better find a 9V power supply.

The higher the input voltage will be the lower the driver efficiency so I will not try to go over 9V on the input. Set output to 3.5V and 3A.

[electrodacus]

@drtarik33 I do not use the CREE XM-L in this projector but is what I recommend it was not available at the time I build this projector.

You can find the CREE XM-L on eBay see this eBay item 230695503806

The LED CREE XM-L is about 10W at 3A.

I used the CREE MC-E in this projector at about 6 to 7W it has 4 1x1mm dies close together but XM-L is better since it has one die that is 2x2mm and is a bit more efficient.

50W and other multi die not possible to focus with a simple lens.

[sdttnkara]

Can The "LED mod" be used for DLP projectors?

[electrodacus]

@sdttnkara Yes, But DLP's are even smaller than LCD so you will have to concentrate the light even better.

Steps necessary to trick the lamp circuit are the same just that there is usually also a light sensor that need to see sufficient light and some times you will need to find that and apply light directly on it if not sufficient gets directly but usually is not a problem.

Valid for both LCD and DLP is that older models before 2002 have better chances to be modified. Newer models more complex.

[bessarimagal]

how important is it to use a lens on the led. I am using a 50w prime led rated at 4000lm that i had for another project but my video is still quite dark. Any suggestions, and can u recommend a lens?

[electrodacus]

@bessarimagal Unfortunately that LED will not work with a lens is probably the same 50W LED I have in the video about LED vs incandescent.

They have 50 x 1W dies and you can not collimate that with a simple lens.

Even a 3W LED with a lens will give you better results than that 50 LED at least 2x better and the best LED you can use for the projector is the CREE XM-L is 1000 lumen but from a single 2x2mm die that can be collimated easy with a two lens.

You will need a laser like light source.

[bessarimagal]

I see, thanks for the heads up.I will look at all that, if that's the case I guess a little noise is not such a big problem

[bessarimagal]

Ok, ballast is already out, I am also considering replacing the noisy fans with quieter ones and more directed airflow. I also think that my led and heatsink assembly will fit perfectly into the old bulb bracket. Should make for better light direction too.

[electrodacus]

@bessarimagal You will need to see if the fans can be easily replaced it may be that they check for fans RPM, current consumption or some other method to detect that the fans work properly.

Also even if the hottest part was the lamp and probably the ballast the other electronics will still need good cooling since they designed the projector with that level of cooling in mind.

[bessarimagal]

@electrodacus... I bridged the wires that you told me and it works, pj stays on and works. I tip my hat to you and I say THANK YOU!!!. I will keep you updated on the progress of the project..

[electrodacus]

@bessarimagal Great now you can remove the Ballast the entire box jut keep the cable and the bridge wires.

You do not need the ballast and you make space for your LED power supply.

[bessarimagal]

@electrodacus. pics sent. let me know if you have all you need. thanks much..

[electrodacus]

@bessarimagal I send you an email just now. I will need more photos that was not the connector.

[bessarimagal]

@electrodacus...thanks for the speedy response. I will send you some pics as soon as I can.

[bessarimagal]

hi, first of all thanks for all your effort and patience, it's guys like you that keep the dream alive for us. I have a proxima dp4100 dlp projector that I would like to use led as light source. I see 5 wires coming from the board green red orange black white but on the other side of connector going to lamp psu orange changes to clear. Are any of these bridgeable to bypass lamp detection etc? your help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[electrodacus]

@bessarimagal I guess you do not have the schematic so I will need some photos with the lamp PSU PCB around the connector on both sides of the PCB to see the traces and there must be some optoisolators close they usually dip 4 or dip 6 packages.

If you can get some photos send them to the same user name as here on gmail.com and I may be able to help you. 

[KeithWasHere1]

what projector did you perform this mod on?..(i may have one like it sitting on my shelf lol)

[electrodacus]

@KeithWasHere1 This is a Toshiba TLP-B2 Ultra and I also modified a Telex P600 and a large Infocus LP920 most of the 3xLCD projectors before 2001-2002 will probably work.

[KeithWasHere1]

which is best to use to drop voltage on a power supply diodes or resistors? (and if its resistors can a variable resistor suffice?)

[electrodacus]

@KeithWasHere1 The best is an LED controller more efficient than resistors and more stable.

I used a resistor in this case since is a 4 die connected in series so a bit over 12V for LED and with a resistor and 15V power supply I was able to get good efficiency close to 90%

But for 3V LED you normally have high currents 3A at 10W and you can probably get a 5V power supply then efficiency will be no more than 60% and the resistor will need cooling as much as the LED not a good idea.

[KeithWasHere1]

@electrodacus son something like a buck puck for the Lexon Rebels led (dont know if you have ever messed with thos its basically just a small 1.5 inch square pot for them)....is there anything like that for the cree xml?..you kinda sold me on that with your comparisons of lights and outputs (and since you told me somehting like the 50watt led plate will not suffice in a projector system.) but that leaves me with the last question,can the cre-xml light be collimated properly with minimum loss?

[electrodacus]

@KeithWasHere1 Not sure what potentiometer are you referring to. A simple potentiometer will not work since is for very low currents.

Is not that 50W is not enough is that it can not be collimated efficiently so a 3W LED will give you more light than a 50W that ca not be collimated.

Lens only work with point light sources so any LED with a die more than 2mm is useless since it can not be collimated.

The CREE XM-L will work best for collimation.

[KeithWasHere1]

how do you get power to the mainboard of the projector?...is your led light power supply isolated from the rest of the projector or is it running some of the projectors internal parts as well>

[KeithWasHere1]

why not use a lens...i think a collminating lens or "light pipe" to focus the light into a tighter package?..ive seen new flashlights that project their light in a perfectly circular pattern,next time i see that particular flashlight i will buy it and show you all what i mean...

[electrodacus]

@KeithWasHere1 I use two lens to climate the light is under +- 3 degrees.

[KeithWasHere1]

if anyone is attempting to hack a casio xja-140 laser projector for alternate light usage..please let me know and what your results are.

[anmadrid2003]

THE 3D IN MY PROJECTOR IS NOT NORMAL SINCE ITS NOT 3D IT JS STARTING TO SHOW IT.. IT ALSO SHOWS RED COLORS . I OPENED IT UP AND CLEANED IT . NOTHING IS LOOSE.. I SOMETIMES GET LINES THROUGH THE SCREEN BUT THE FOCUS WORKS GOOD.

[electrodacus]

@anmadrid2003 Then one or more LCD's are misaligned because it was drooped or during cleaning if you applied pressure on the LCD's.

lines are from an bad contacts on one of the LCD's they are connected with a flat multiwire cable and again probably you touched during cleaning or even opened the contacts to remove the motherboard.

Even a few micrometers misalignment will make your image look as a 3D image.

Send me a photo of the projection same user name as here on gmail.

[electrodacus]

@anmadrid2003 Is normal to see double like in 3D without glasses with glasses must be fine.

About the blue look in video games is probably from a low quality cable that connects to your gaming machine.

If it says replace soon the you can have something from couple of hours to hundred depending on you luck but it will not create any of the above.

I will delete your post since it contains the email address. 

[electrodacus]

@electrodacus

Your original post without the email address:

"MY TOSHIBA MT2 IS SHOWING DOUBLE LIKE IF ITS IN 3D WITH NO GLASSES AND MY COLOR ON THE VIDEO GAMES LOOKS BLUE. HOW CAN I FIX THIS? IS THE LAMP BULB GOING BAD? IT SAYS REPLACE SOON. IF YOU CAN HIT ME UP PLEASE email THANX ELECTRODACUS"

[Justsouthofbost]

Thanks ,,,, nice to know ,,,, I was concerned with the overheating factor and the flood vrs the spot aspect, What do you think is the best make and model LED to use for Modding??

[electrodacus]

@Justsouthofbost The best model is the CREE XM-L is a 10W about 3A a bit over 3V since it has a die size of only 2x2mm and that is small enough to be able to project using a lens and get under 3 or 4 degree angle.

You can expect to get with this up to 50 lumen out of your projector.

If you watch the end of the video where is the animation I explain there that you need to illuminate the LCD that is only 2cm or so diameter and about 30cm from the LED.

[electrodacus]

@Justsouthofbost the 100W are useless for video projector. You can not use a lens to direct the light so you get less than from 1W LED not to mention 100W will be hard to cool.

Yes the LED do not produce any significant level of UV and the LCD will not deteriorate.

I will need to delete your message since you will get a lot of spam with the email here.

[Justsouthofbost]

since the multiple little LED's on the panel act more like a flood light pattern than a tight spot pattern. It seems like the Cre Xml series had a much tighter point of light but I am concerned that it might not handle the wattage. I am also considering using three separate LED's directly behind the LCD polarizors and panels as well. Pt 2

[Justsouthofbost]

Hi Electrodacus,, First off THANKS for all your work with the projector mod's!! You are the Best!! Could you please list the exact Make and Model LED part numbers on your various mod's so the rest of us can take advantage of your work. I am thinking of using either a 50 or a 100 watt 6000 K LED module but am concerned that the originating point of light will still be to wide to achieve any real brightness. PT 1

[vince086]

Nice mod!!!

I am trying the same thing at the moment, found the 3 pin wire that goes to the electronics responsible for controlling the light. Just need to do a bit of testing to figure out witch one is the control and what does the other one do. And see if the projector will display images before I buy all the hardware.

[electrodacus]

@vince086 Thanks, from the 3 wire one is GND usually in the middle one is Lamp OK signal that need to be connected to GND and the third one is lamp on signal that you can use if you want to power on the LED or whatever light source you want to use.

[vince086]

@electrodacus Yeah the central one is ground, connected to 2 optoisolator, but they are in opposite direction. Just connected the central one to one of the other 2 on either side and both time the "Light problem" led light up.

Wonder if there is another way to trick it into thinking there is a working bulb, big resistor between the contacts that go to the bulb...?

Will do a bit more testing if I have time this weekend, I would love to have a project but cant afford a new one.

[electrodacus]

@vince086 Yes they need to be in opposite direction the one you need to connect to GND is the one that go to the input of the optoisolator that means the LED.

But you need to do this on the motherboard connector and you can trow away the inverter "ballast".

Also you need to take care that there are also other contacts like the one that senses that the bulb is inserted that one also need to be close else you get the Lamp error.

[MrLecvip]

Hello electrodacus!

This is the best modding I have ever seen with a led -especially with that low wattage.

Magnificant! The condenser lens inside the origin lamphouse is simpel but genial!

Are you going to do the same thing with a led light with more wattage?

I would enjoy that!

Thank you for the clips!

MrLecvip!!!

[electrodacus]

@MrLecvip Thanks,

The most powerful LED that can be used is about 10W that is not much more than I have now and I can get this LED also to 10W but it will require active cooling.

I have ordered one 50W LED with 50 x 1W die but it will only be good for illumination will not work in a projector I will do a video about many LED types as soon I I will get the 50W one.

There are now commercial LED and Laser projectors at a good price see Casio where not available when I did this mod.

[MrLecvip]

@electrodacus

I have built some DIY projectors, and also succesdul modded a commercial projector some years ago with a H7 car bulb :). I love modding and have tried the led-light as well -but only as a 3w powerled -and it was not so succesful as your modding.

I thought the origin fans for UHP-lamp was enough for cooling a higher wattage led light..

If you find a solution to cool the high wattage led light you should have the official Nobel Price of modding :)

in the future!!!!

[electrodacus]

@MrLecvip I had one with a 3W LED and got about 15 lumen output.

I removed the original fan in this projector since it was quite noisy and even with that the UHP-lamp can work at high temperature since is glass but the LED need to stay under 60C for long life same as a CPU.

To get the light travel as strait as possible you need a point light source so an LED with a die larger than 2x2mm will be just waste. The more you can get now on a 2x2mm die is about 10W so this is the limit with one LED.

[19chazz76]

the laptop adapter did you connect it to projector power connection. does led power on with projector or is it separate from projector..thanks

[electrodacus]

@19chazz76 The laptop adapter is connected to the AC plug inside the projector and since this projector dose not have a hardware switch the LED is on the moment I plug the projector to AC outlet.

Is possible to make the LED be ON only when you push the soft power ON key you just need to use the Lamp ON signal "one of the three wires I used to bypass the lamp" to switch a relay to power on the LED.

Is not important for me since I do not use the projector much.

[jobylinh]

Can you use led luminus SST-90, it's 2200lumen, 3V 9A. I hope it will carefull

[electrodacus]

@jobylinh I know about the SST-90 but the die size is 9mm2 s 3x3mm and that is a bit more than double of the CREE XM-L 4mm2 2x2mm that is 1000lumen.

On the same surface you get the same power with SST-90 but you will not get more light out of the projector since you need to concentrate the light see the last part of the video the one with the animation.

The 2x2mm of the XM-L is already a bit to large and you lose part of the light with the sst-90 you will lose more and end up with the same.

[jobylinh]

@electrodacus

i have projector dlp, if mod light bulb, can i use cree xm-l or sst-90?

When i remove light bulb (orginal), the projector only run 50s and auto off. i don't undertand!

i'm vietnames

[electrodacus]

@jobylinh There is a protection circuit that need to be deactivated in order to work for more than 50s.

If you watch my video you can see that the Lamp power supply is connected to the main board with 3 or more wires for control and lamp detection.

You will need to send me some photos with the power supply in order to be able to help you.

If is a very new projector later than 2004 than there is a big chance that the simple mod will not work.

[jobylinh]

@electrodacus my projector is BENQ MP514 Projector DLP made 2008, i don't have the camera, i can't nt send you photos of projector, thanks for you reply me.

i had undertood, but i don't known calbe control lamp where! help me

[electrodacus]

@jobylinh You need to open the projector and find the LAMP power supply "ballast" it must be similar to the one you see at the beginning of this video.

It has normally 3 separate connections

one is the 2 wires going to the lamp

second there are two tick wires for power

and third there is a small connector with 3 up to 8 wires that go to the main board.

But considering your projector is 2008 there is a big possibility that you will not be able to bypass the LAMP since is to complex.

[jobylinh]

@electrodacus

i found the control wire, and I can make my machine run continuously, but I have trouble focusing the light of the projector lamps. Tomorrow I will buy the headlight of flashlight C30 and use, i hope complete

[electrodacus]

@jobylinh Great that you manage to find the control wire.

Flash light will work but not great. The light need to be almost laser like so from one meter you do not need to get more than a 5cm diameter light all the is over 5cm from one meter will be lost inside the projector.

I explain a bit why on this video at the end with the animation. 

[19chazz76]

thanks it worked i found the wire to bypass...it picked xbox 360. now i need to build the light source...keep up the great work.

[electrodacus]

@19chazz76 Great.

[19chazz76]

Need your help. I found the optocuplers. and the pin out wires. theres is 5 wires. not sure which one is for the lamp signal. what do you do with the wire when you find it?...i posted a quick video of my attempt..let me know please...really want to do this mod.

[electrodacus]

@19chazz76 So there are 5 wires probably some of them are GND and the one that is lamp OK signal is connected to the collector on one of the optocouplers and you need to connect that pin to GND. 

[19chazz76]

@electrodacus not sure which one..should i just ground each one until i get it to bypass...will i short something if i do this?

[electrodacus]

@19chazz76 If you have 5 wires is not a good idea.

Can you see with of the 5 wires are GND wires?

I sent you a private message with my email address can you get a photo of the connector on both sides make sure I can see also the optocouplers on one of the photos then I can help you more.

[electrodacus]

@agiografo I guess the other lamps where some fake or low quality 200 to 400h seems to low.

If you need the projector for large projection or ambient light then the solution I used will not be satisfactory for you the projector with the original 120W lamp can output a bit over 1000 lumen according to specification from my measurement was much less about 500 - 600 lumen but still much more then I get now with a 7W LED that is about 25 lumen that is fine only in a dark room on about 60" screen

[electrodacus]

@electrodacus I just removed your message since it contain your email you should not do that if you care about your inbox.

[vismuxas]

very nice speak ;D



[dehoffe]

very nice video , thank you.

[dehoffe]

very nice video , thank you.

[pokoysautube]

@electrodacus

Thanks a lot for a very nice mod on projector. I have currently a panasonic projector with a busted bulb and would like to know which CREE XM-L Led I can use. There are 3 kinds of it. Can I use the cpu heatsink for it? I can easily modify the circuit to fool the projector into thinking that the bulb is working. I also have access to lens in order to focus the light ( lens with almost 3.5 inches aperture and is apochromatic or color free).

Thanks again,

pokoy

[electrodacus]

@pokoysautube There is only one CREE XM-L LED 3A and you will want the neutral or cool white between 5000 and 6500k.

Yes the CPU heatsink will be great it generates under 10W of heat so it should me more than adequate.

I do not know what lens you have you need to use one or two lenses and the main one need to be closer to LED than the diagonal see also the part1 of this video there are some photos with the large lens you will need a condenser lens.

[TheDominickers]

is there a way i can email you directly with photos and serial number. Also i i have not seen anything which looks like a sensor on th bulb enclosure.

P.s thank you for a fast reply.

[electrodacus]

@TheDominickers I have your email and you can see the sensor at minute 2:50 in the video.

[TheDominickers]

@electrodacus i have absolutley no idea how to post photos on here could i email them to you ?



[electrodacus]

@TheDominickers Yes you can email them to me you have my email since I sent you one one hour ago.

[TheDominickers]

@electrodacus

i have emailed the photos, :-)



[TheDominickers]

I have on order this LED "PRIME 20W 2000-Lumen LED Emitter Metal Plate - White (16~18V)" plus power supply and heat sink. do you think they will be ok?

[electrodacus]

@TheDominickers Sorry that is not good for projectors you will need an LED with a small die and not multiple die since you will not be able to collect the light. The best one you can use is the CREE XM-L you can find this for about 12$ and is about 800 to 1000 lumen at 3A but you can not find better then this on a 2x2mm die and this is already quite large.

[pokoysautube]

@electrodacus

Thanks a lot for a very nice mod on projector. I have currently a panasonic projector with a busted bulb and would like to know which CREE XM-L Led I can use. There are 3 kinds of it. Can I use the cpu heatsink for it? I can easily modify the circuit to fool the projector into thinking that the bulb is working. I also have access to lens in order to focus the light ( lens with almost 3.5 inches aperture and is apochromatic or color free).

Thanks again,

pokoy

[TheDominickers]

Hi i need help.i have a sanyo pro xtra multiverse projector which im trying to convert to led power. i have managed to bypass bulb ok circuit but now the projector goes into shut down after about 25 seconds. tha manual says that its because of unuasual high temperature or cooling the buld befor shutdown . there are 5 wires in the bypass plug so would you have any clue as to what i would need to do to keep it running.

Hopfully

Dominic

[electrodacus]

@TheDominickers Can you give me the exact model? Also there is a thermal sensor usually mounted on the bulb case do you still have that one connected?

Are all fans connected and working? Do you have o schematic or at least some photo with the 5 pin connector and the PCB around the connector?

Sorry there just questions is hard for me to diagnose since I'm not able to see the projector.

[poweressen]

Wow, you are very tallented :D

[electrodacus]

@poweressen :) Thanks I do not have that much talent just a lot of free time.