Magazine Announcement

[VAWAhorrors]

1. Give Women Voting Rights

2. Give Women Equal Rights

3. Give Women Extra Rights

4. Give Women Extra Protection... from Men

5. Hear only Women and Ignore Men

6. Believe Women only and Treat men as Perpetrators

7. Let Women Falsely Accuse Men without Consequences

8. Encourage Women to be Helpless Victims and to think of All Men as Rapists

9. Encourage False Accusations by Women (VAWA) and Punish Innocent Men

10. ...Watch Women Destroy Men, the Family and Society !!!

[Jmnzz]

This is amusing but not concerning. Only the discriminatory laws against men are the problem, not psychobabble from moronic zealots.

If feminists, female or male, really wanted equality then they wouldn't deny this discrimination or add to it with ridiculous theories that have no factual basis.

[Jmnzz]

Patriarchy rolls off a feminist tongue like flies on a wet turd. When they have no proof of any legal oppression of women in the west they cringe in a corner and shout patriarchy this and that.

None of them can make up their minds on what it is though. A short while ago it was all men. Then a small group of fat cats (alpha males) who kept women down somehow. Now it's gender socialization. Meaning anyone (men) who wants to lead are upholding some stone age bash a woman over the head life style.

[Dyakki]

So yeah, where do you guys predict society will be in 40 years? I say things will be better and more equal, because of the reforms made. I'm guessing you guys would disagree. I would be willing to be everything I have that we'll be living much better than we are now, and have much less inter-gender strife. After all, it isn't rocket science. Just takes a little education, rethinking and letting go some old socialization. So yeah, better or worse? Would you be willing to be we'd end up worse?

[factory2590]

If we continue along this path, our society will have collapsed long before 40 years from now. Probably before 20.

You can preen all you want, but the way the average guy on the street judges these issues is the way they're going to be decided.

You feminists will have to do a whole lot better than "If you just read these 15 books you'll KNOW why all this stuff that is hurting you is actually good for you".

[burnbrother3]

There have been some good and some not so good comments here since our friend factory2590 went to the trouble of working together with a group of good guys to put this newsletter together. Let's not let people like Dyakki try to derail what is going on here. The person clearly is smarter than all of us combined.

If you believe in what has been written and have a few extra dollars please go ahead and get some of the PDF version printed and drop them off at places where they will be noticed.

[ludicrouslife67]

I watched a docu-drama about Sophie Scholl in WW2 who put out anti-nazi literature in universities and was eventually caught and killed for it. Maybe you should do what she did and just leave copies of your magazine all over campuses so people can begin to be aware of the issues? Not saying you'd be killed of course lol, but in feminazi universities today it's about the only way you'd be read. And it's free mass distribution to people who'd probably read it, especially guys sick of fem bullshit.

[factory2590]

That's exactly why I created the high resolution version. And, so anyone who wanted to could do the same thing, I made it available on the internet for download.

I believe mensnewdaily has a link...

[ludicrouslife67]

Yeah I forgot about that because I actually watched this vid a few days ago now, it was your latest one I watched just now. I then came back to this vid to download your mag and left my comment. But yes leaving your magazine on campuses would be really effective, so effective that the women's studies profs would probably try and get you prosecuted for "hate speech" or something. They really have completely lost it and behave like medieval high priests.

[factory2590]

No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

:)

I hear you though. We have "Professors" in Canada advocating the monitoring, and jailing, of "potential terrorists" (us), and purveyors of "hate speech" (disagreement with feminism). They wrote a report and everything.

They looked like such idiots the Liberal government (their real name) had to sweep it under the rug...

[Dyakki]

LOL. Yeah, ranting and raving about the 'liberal conspiracy.' I knew you had a right-wing bent about you. Just waiting for it to come out. I see where this is going now.

[factory2590]

Um, The Liberals is the name of the political party dumbass.  I'm Canadian.

And you're nuts.

[Dyakki]

Yes, I read you were Canadian. Your point?

[g0dlike308]

how did you know i was canadian you stalker?!?! I'm going to slap some sexual harassment charges on you.

[Dyakki]

Hey, instead of lambasting "Liberal Professors" why don't you take a look at what you advocate and why? If you're so afraid of being labeled "terrorists" (which of course, is laughable) it's not because of your Men's Movement. It's because of what you SAY. If you're talking all sorts of androcentric garbage and misogyny and such, then want to hide behind the shield of the men's movement and claim oppression, don't you think that's a cowardly tactic?

[g0dlike308]

don't you think that's a cowardly tactic?

its cold out here in Canada man, I'm moving to Florida for a vacation, hope there are no feminists there.

[ludicrouslife67]

Yeah I didn't mean to go overboard but they're exactly the kind of people I was thinking of. And although the lib govt would back away from the jailing they call for just the fact they call for it still shows the fantastically intolerant attitude they actually have. And they regularly get people fired from universities for daring to openly argue with their ideology. They really behave like they're the holders of all truth and others have to be either "educated" or expelled.

[Dyakki]

Yeaaaaaaaaaah... good luck at mainstream American Universities. You might get better results at certain religious universities, for obvious reasons. In fact, the more you can tie your androcentrism to religious principles the better it would work. :p

[ludicrouslife67]

I'm an atheist. I just believe in equal rights (child custody court etc) and an end to misandry, how is that religious principals?

[Dyakki]

Well, it sure doesn't show in your words, I can say that. If you really were for those things, you'd fit squarely in the Feminist camp.

[ludicrouslife67]

I want an end to misandry and equal rights and you say that puts me in the feminist camp? I think we're on totally different planets so we might as well forget it. As for my words, I think people being able to argue with feminist dogma in universities and not be abused for it is not too much to ask for.

[Dyakki]

Good luck. If you came to my college trying to pull that crap, I'd be fighting you tooth and nail, best believe. :]

[ludicrouslife67]

Fair enough lol. But you mean of course you'd be fighting what I have to say, my viewpoint, not my right to say it and have us simply disagree?

Like if I rocked up at your campus with 20 copies of factories mag and started handing them out you'd just take on the ideas expressed in it, not try and drive me off campus?

[factory2590]

Oh no, he'd be trying to drive you off campus for your "hate speech". Political dissent is something feminism cannot withstand, and so feminists try to smother, or failing that direct, as much of the "dialogue" as they can.

It's why they continually show up and demand their concerns be placated before they'll "join us".

But actual debate? Never.

[ludicrouslife67]

I know it's really depressing. People who just want to be heard, want to point out reality like the horrific disrespect of men as human beings when it comes to parenthood or their abysmal treatment in criminal court compared to women are dismissed as haters, while the people pushing the abusive unequal state of things are seen as "strong" and "progressive". And anyone trying to raise this is shouted down because we can't have counter revolutio.. oops "misogynistic" viewpoints. It's so fucked up.

[Dyakki]

No, it's how you say it. Again, you cannot spout nonsense and then hide behind the shield of oppression. It won't work, and it DOESNT work. This is why you are marginalized.

[Dyakki]

Please. What do you think I'm doing now. AND I'm a guy, and willing to speak against other men? That's gotta be pretty rare. I've never heard guys at my school talk about things like this. If anything, you're the ones that are jumping down my throat for trying to dispel just a micron of your arguments. And the thing is, I FEEL YOU on some of it. I see where you're coming from, but you're just not seeing the bigger issue. The bias is just too strong. Maybe it's a generational thing. I dunno.

[factory2590]

Maybe it's an indoctrination thing? Or a perspective thing?

Maybe you just don't know as much as you think you do?

I don't really care. If I'm wrong, no one will listen to me.

If I'm right....feminists are screwed.

[Dyakki]

I'd debate you until you left, sure. Most people throw their hands up after a while, anyway. No stamina. But through you out? No. I'd rather rally against your rationale than shut you up. An argument needs to be heard to be rebutted. Please don't try to cast me as anti-debate, like the OP seems to, so please stop him before he goes on another "Fox News" like rant about "liberals and the establishment." Because you know, that makes him seem like such less of misogynist echoing that camp. :D

[mathewskarl]

I'd happily call myself pro-feminist (again, as I did in my youth when I was less educated about it) if only it would work from it's dictionary definition.

But I define feminism by it's actions... and YOU yourself have sat here, in this very page, blaming men even for women's choices - and YOU are profeminist.

The actions of feminism (blaming men, absolving women) speak way louder than the claims of equality.

[Jmnzz]

You make an outstandingly great point here on the definition of feminism. One I am so in tune with I made a video about it.

[Dyakki]

Sounds like you need to recapture your youth, man! Somewhere along the way, you left the path of wisdom. Became jaded, I guess... But no, I have not blamed individual men (unless of course, they are directly related to some case, law, or issue) but rather, cultural patriarchy as a sort of root of so many of these issues we face, and why we needed laws to address them over time.

Just show me one time where I lambasted men unfairly.

[mathewskarl]

I pointed out that i was a SAHD father... after you had claimed men don't "want" to do it. You instantly accused me of whining.

As I said, read the magazine to understand why the constant bashing on patriarchy is the same as bashing on men.

[factory2590]

He won't do that. Feminists have no interest in understanding our perspective (as has been obvious for at least a decade), and reading 30 pages is WAYY too much work. He'd rather have you type out arguments to him, and his buddy, and her class at school....all individually mind you...so they can show how "superior" they are....and waste a lot of your time.

I'd love to see this egghead up against TyphonBlue though, just for the entertainment value.

[factory2590]

Every time you talk about "the Patriarchy".

[Dyakki]

Just to wrap this all up, because I don't want this to go on forever, let me pose a question to factory2590. Any one else can answer as well: What are your views on women in general. I'm just curious.

[Jmnzz]

"What are your views on women in general?"

There is no point in having any different views on men or women. We are all humans with different attributes and characteristics.

Feminism is the enemy of those who seek equality in the legal system, not women. Even though women benefit from the injustice, many of them are insulted by it. That is why feminist organizations under the bias banner of VAWA are being sued and losing.

A lot of feminists claim to be humanists...I think not.

[Dyakki]

Way to duck the question, Jmnzz! You rock!

But yeah, I can guess what you REALLY think. You are truly a sad fellow if you seriously think that. Well, at least I know what you think about women. You pretty much prove my point about your version of the "Men's Movement" is just another childish little treehouse boys club. Cute when you were 10, but not 10*3. What you need is a REAL men's movement, one that focuses on men, not on women or what you think the problems with Feminism are.

[Jmnzz]

"Way to duck the question Jmnzz! you rock!"

Thanks. Although I didn't dodge anything I already knew I rock.

"But yeah, I can guess what you REALLY think."

Can you Professor Xavier?

"You prove my point about your version of the Men's Movement."

I said nothing about the men's rights movement.

"A real men's movement would focus on the problems with men."

Last time I checked, MRAs protest the discrimination in the justice system towards "men" that was made legal by feminists.

[Dyakki]

A real men's movement would focus on the problems with men, including how gender roles and the socialization processes HURT MEN as well. In fact, Feminists often talk about this. Men are more than just a paycheck. If you guys want to change the societal view that men aren't good child-rearers, why not actually DO some of the child-rearing? Why not sacrifice your job, your life, your time just as women do, and do the dirty work?

[mathewskarl]

You mean, you think a 'real mens movement' would be 'feminism by men'... yeah, well, we've seen feminism thanks.

And as for that - I was my daughter's SAHD... I did sacrifice my career. I did change the nappies... I was on my hands and knees scrubbing a floor clean (tiles) because we couldn't even afford a mop & bucket... How about you stop pretending all men dive away from parenting, and accept that maternal gatekeeping keeps most men away from parenting. You just blame men.

[Dyakki]

LOL. Didn't sound like you enjoyed doing all of that, whining about 'maternal gate keeping.' Just stop playing and admit that you think that's a woman's "god given role" so I can write you off as a hopeless fool. Go on, I'm waiting. Because that's what it will ultimately come to. Otherwise, why complain about being a SAHD? Most men don't do the parenting because they can get away with not doing it, plain and simple.

[factory2590]

See, again, if you had clue fucking one about mens issues, you'd know that maternal gatekeeping is the term applied to situations where women restrict their husband/partner's access or authority in childrearing, and assert their own authority.

ie, nothing's ever done right, he isn't holding baby right, doing laundry right, spending enough/too much time with baby, etc..

Basically, acting just like you on here, only about a baby instead.

[Dyakki]

As much as that term is filled with loaded language, YOU DO REALIZE (or at least you should, with how much I've tried to explain this to you) if such things exists, it is because of the socialization process (that is, that women are somehow intrinsically better at raising children, and that women always know best in these situations) that Feminists are trying to combat. But instead of seeing that, you want to blame it on women, without seeing the bigger picture.

[g0dlike308]

damn you used too many brackets and confused me there.

[Dyakki]

*pets* I realized you're easily confused. I'll use simpler words next time, hon. :]

[g0dlike308]

If you're talking all sorts of androcentric garbage and misandry and such, then want to hide behind the shield of the women's movement and claim oppression, don't you think that's a cowardly tactic used by feminists?

Ok i fixed that for you there, no need to thank me i do this for a living (im a ufc fighter who fixes people up)

[Dyakki]

If you're talking all sorts of androcentric garbage and misogyny and such, then want to hide behind the shield of the men's movement and claim oppression, don't you think that's a SUPER cowardly tactic?

Sorry, fixed that for you again. (I'm a UFC judge that fixes matches.)

[g0dlike308]

If you're talking all sorts of androcentric garbage and misandry and such, then want to hide behind the shield of the women's movement and claim oppression, don't you think that's AN EXTREMELY ULTRA cowardly tactic used by feminists?

Lies you are not a ufc judge, i know all of them. Eve Lavigne, big john mccartthy, and so on.

[mathewskarl]

no, many women 'think' they know best... not necessarily 'do' know best. My missus and her mother were the ones standing in the way and pushing roles on me, no one else. All you're doing - as a pro feminist - is marginalizing issues men DO face.

[Dyakki]

And again, time after time I have said that view is wrong. I agree with you on that issue and I also state that Feminists and Pro-Feminist men, ALSO agree. So don't get it twisted. That view is the societal/patriarchal view that is being combated. This is what I meant when I said patriarchy hurts men, too. Especially men who are non-conformists to 'traditional' gender roles.

[mathewskarl]

Patriarchy is just a theory - a means to blame men. When feminism stops blaming men - in general - and acknowledges society works outside their man-hating mentality, we'll be in agreement. But while feminists systematically blame men/patriarchy and excuse/justify women's wrongs - we can hardly be in agreement. There is NO equality in blaming systemattically one sex only and absolving the other sex.

[Dyakki]

Because that's what Feminists fight against too. Men have been hurt by these things, and I would be a fool to deny it, being male myself. So if that is your ONLY TRUE CAUSE, then I am behind you. But I fear you have erred along the way, especially in the idea of historical context. Instead of looking at the idea of patriarchy on its scientific and historical merits, you take it as some kind of affront to you own masculinity, or rather, as a blow against men themselves.

[factory2590]

You're a nutcase and a zealot. There's just no other way to put it. You have no interest in listening to others, and you cannot, or will not, comprehend any possible worldview outside your own.

You believe anyone who disagrees with you simply isn't as educated and enlightened as you are. A typical Left wing Academic response.

What I'm telling you is you are wrong. Just plain dead wrong.

[Dyakki]

H'okay. So what I've been doing for the last week or so was talk to myself, right? All you guys are bots? Cool.

And yeah, I'll stick to my "Left Wing Academic" education, thank you. You can stick to your conspiracy theories, mistrust of the experts and those who have actually done the hard work and the studies, and people that generally well... know more than you. Good luck with that.

[factory2590]

I didn't say you didn't talk. I said you didn't listen. You prove my point for me.

For instance, what do you think of the male suicide advertisement in the magazine?

What's that....STILL haven't read it even though we've been saying for days that this stuff is better answered in there?

Why?

Because you can't puff your chest up at a magazine? No "ego boost" to be had showing us all how "wrong" we are without doing anything but spouting worn-out feminist mantras?

Just like the rest...

[mathewskarl]

When I was with my ex, we lived under a matriarchial household. Blaming 'male leadership/power' (patriarchy) is hardly reasonable for people who were in my position. It's just blaming of men and absolving women.

IF feminism is attacking the same principles - as you claim - who do they blame? Who do they attack? Who do they fight?

The women who promote it? No. You yourself claimed I was 'whining' about being a SAHD - but I loved my time with my daughter...

[Dyakki]

Again, you miss the mark. The blame no person unless directly responsible. The blame social attitudes, formed of course by society and history. All of that leaves a legacy that impacts us today, who are a product of that. I would suggest you do some serious reading on patriarchy and history, in context. And yes, I mentioned 'whining' because you were giving me an answer to the wrong question. That's cool if you were a SAHD. Feminists would stand with you. But you seem to think otherwise.

[factory2590]

So why do you have such a problem with us doing our own thing? If your position is so right, and we're so wrong, how can we POSSIBLY be a threat?

What you fear is impossible, you cannot stuff the toothpaste back in the tube.

What we want is actual, verifiable, legal equality with women...I'd love to say no special treatment for any, but feminism has done massive damage to society (I believe they used to use the term "deconstruct") that needs repairing.

[Dyakki]

Hah, what an argument. Of course you are a threat if 'doing your own' thing means undermining years of progress to fit some warped definition of parity. If that is what you really want, why beat up on Feminism?

[factory2590]

I want legal equality, in word and deed. You want special privileges to make up for "past oppression" and special handouts to help the "structurally disadvantaged" and "I" have a "warped definition of parity"?

Wow.

Care to elaborate how black letter equality is "warped parity", and your version is not?

[Dyakki]

Equality is not equality unless it takes into account social reality. Like I said before, the way you talk puts you in same camp as those people who quack about gays having 'too many rights' and blacks 'too many rights' when they bring of social inequalities. The letter of the law is fine, but the spirit of the law matters too. Separate But Equal was pushed as equality too! The letter of the law! Remember that.

[mathewskarl]

If wanting legal equality with women is 'warped'... how on Earth do you define feminists when they have insisted on preferential treatment of women at men's expense? (e.g. rape sheild laws, man guilty until proven innocent, affirmative action, etc. etc.)

[Dyakki]

You're being very general in your arguments, and you're going to need to back them up with specifics. I don't see anything unjust with designing policy or law to right social injustices with consideration to the social reality. I think Affirmative action was just one of the things that has been implemented. This may be brass, but I have to say that if the program shakes the status quo, on some level, its working. Just shows you how long stuff's been messed up.

[mathewskarl]

One moment you say you fight against destructive views..then you claim I'm complaining about being a SAHD, when I wasn't - I was disproving your lies. I loved being at home, it was the missus who hated it. I wasn't earning enough for her, She was the earner - she hated it... not me. Now please, stop promoting destructive views.

[Dyakki]

Yeah, I'm fighting against your destructive view by trying to twist the idea of destroying gender roles as something 'women don't want' because of your experience. That's pretty much like trying to tell me that there's no such thing as global warming because it's cold outside today. Pathetic. Feminists fight against those things too so that both sexes and all genders have the right to those things without societal pressure, without obstruction by law and without undue condemnation.

[mathewskarl]

you pretended women don't hold those values - I demonstrated they do. Now you claim feminism is against those values, but this time you don't try to pretend women don't hold those values. You have been proven wrong... you just don't like that it's been done.

Women ARE as bad as men for promoting gender roles, but you want only men to be held accountable.

[Dyakki]

Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. You haven't read anything I said, have you? So I'm just going to repost it.

[mathewskarl]

I've read all you have said - and you claimed women don't hold those values apart from 'some who unconsciously do' as if it's not their fault somehow, and in the same breath claimed men (in general) do hold those views... and that feminists didn't at all.

THAT is a superiority complex talking - that is blaming men even for women's involvement - that is absolving women of a shred of responsibility.

[Dyakki]

Yeah, I want to see that quote where I said that. Again, Patriarchy does not equal men.Can I not take a position that the historical oppression of women, gender role conformity, ect. has had an impact on the way we live our day to day lives, and that social order, may in fact placing undue stress on women AND men to conform to needless socialization? It's very frustrating to try to make an academic statement like that for it to be paired down to "wull u just haet mens."

[mathewskarl]

Trust me, it's equally frustrating to be told everything is a man's fault all the time...

[Dyakki]

I'm sure. However, I was never, ever saying that. That's a very simplistic argument and I go on record as being against it. Now what?

[factory2590]

Actually, there's no such thing as global warming because, er...the globe is cooling year after year...

But again, don't let the evidence cloud your judgment.

I can see there's a new game in town, the brainwashed alcolyte men, propagating the PHMT argument gospel.

I'll have to do a video, these comment fields are WAY too small.

[Dyakki]

LOL. Right, right. And this is why you aren't a scientist. :]

[factory2590]

No I'm not, but I read an awful lot of their work. You're a follower. You can't get past "received wisdom". You refuse to question because you prefer to "know".

You are young, inexperienced, perhaps too smart to realize he's being an idiot.

There are plenty of theories (some with more evidence to support) that account for climactic fluctuation. Sunspots being the main contender.

Here's a hint. Whenever someone says "the time for debate is over", they're hiding something.

[Jmnzz]

"A real men's movement would focus on gender roles and socialization."

Well what MRAs chose to focus on is their choice.

"Men are more than just a paycheck."

Right you are. However, the justice system doesn't see it this way so some people besides the MRA like maybe...men and "women" against discrimination and maybe...."humanists" are starting to assist with the atrocities against men feminists have created.

The MRM is not the only enemy of feminism. Not anymore.

[Dyakki]

Maybe you might enjoy it, after all, men are more than just a pay check, though most behave like work is the be all, end all of life. Why do you think many men blow their brains out (after killing everyone else) at their workplace after loosing a job or some other stressful event that drives them to the breaking point? Because men are socialized to believe that their self-worth is totally tied up in their job.

[mathewskarl]

And instead of blaming men only - why not accept that women also promote this societal view... stop blaming only men even for women's actions/behaviours/decisions.

[Dyakki]

Because women by and large, do not promote that view, men have, and do. However, when talking about socialization

it is important not to single out people. The society is the problem, not individuals. It's very true that this also effects women, and SOME women do unconsciously promote that view. But Feminists do not, as well as pro-Feminist men. We seek to change behaviors and socialization patterns that are destructive.

[mathewskarl]

Right... so lets imagine a situation where most men quit their job and inform their 'better' half that they will now be staying home and she will be going to work... Just how many women will stay in that relationship?

From my own experiences - not many (if any).

Let's not lie and pretend only men promote 'man as earner' - women do too. Stop lying through your teeth. I realise you're pro-feminist, and lying is 2nd nature... but make an effort at least.

[Dyakki]

Uh, again, I addressed this before about the climate and society that fosters this kind of belief. And again, if you understood anything about Feminism or the feminist movement and could get past your own oh-so-lovely bias you would see that Feminists do not support that line of thinking. Femininists and pro-Feminist men would.

[mathewskarl]

I'm the one with the bias, but you're the one who - as a feminist - says "men have and do (xxx)" followed by "SOME women unconsciously do but feminists do not"

Right - so by omission of it, we can assume in your view most men can/do quite intentionally, while only some women do it unintentionally, and no feminists ever do it.

But i'm the bias one...

[mathewskarl]

You couldn't see your own sexism and hatred towards men/female superiority if it bit you on the nose... Sexist.

[Dyakki]

If the lose that (their means of providing, being the breadwinner) the ego is crushed. Death is the only option. These oh-so evil Feminists you love to decry are actually advocating your position.

[Jmnzz]

"These oh-so evil Feminists you love to decry are actually advocating your position."

When feminists stop protesting default joint custody proposals that are brought up in family court then they will be for my position.

When they begin protesting "primary aggressor" and the bias laws written throughout VAWA then they will be with my position.

Feminist organizations aren't be sued for nothing. They lose because the mountain of evidence of discrimination is too much for any judge to deny.

[factory2590]

If that's your understanding of the male experience, or the pressures on men, even as a "nutshell"...you have absolutely no clue at all...less than zero. You should feel embarrassed to even comment on mens rights with that level of understanding.

Seriously.

[g0dlike308]

What are your views on women in general. I'm just curious.

- Very good people, not the feminist ones though.

[Dyakki]

Right, gotcha. logged, noted and very much expected.

[g0dlike308]

thank you, good to be appreciated

[Dyakki]

To say or suggest that Feminism acts against mean is a serious twist of logic. You cannot seriously believe that, can you? Or are you so bent on maintaining the status quo that you see any effort to shore up areas of inequality as a threat to your hegemony and thus label it as an attack?

[thecreepyguy]

"To say or suggest that feminist acts against mean is a serious twist of logic"

Yeah because you know all about logic don't you dyakki?

[Dyakki]

Indeed I do. They don't call me Mr. Spock for nothing.

[mathewskarl]

When we see feminists demanding women's prisons be closed and converted to men's prisons - yes, it is an attack. When we see feminists demanding a 'man tax' - yes, it is an attack. When we see feminists misrepresenting facts and twisting reality to blame men for just about everything, including their own choices - yes, that is an attack. etc.

[Dyakki]

Show me exactly who said that -- when, where and in what context.

[mathewskarl]

Harriet Harman (England's most politically powerful feminist, women's minister/equality (lol) minister) and Jacqui Smith wanted the prisons converted so women could be free.

The Swedish Feminist Initiative wanted the Man Tax.

Find me a feminist 'study' that does not blame men, a man, or patriarchy - and I'll accept feminism doesn't *always* blame men. But so far, everyone I've read - blames men.

I can't link as y/t prohibits - but use some google keywords and you'll find them.

[Dyakki]

Uh, I could find no quotes that match either claim for Harriet Harman or Jacqui smith, sorry, and the so called "Man Tax" was a provision linked to covering costs of domestic violence against women. So no, not very radical there, but there are some militant feminists out there who advocate things that I do not agree with. Of course, you would easily pull from this minority group and try to apply those standards to modern, mainstream feminism.

[mathewskarl]

"linked to covering costs of domestic violence against women" - there we go again, painting all men as abusers, and pretending no woman abuses any men - when the reality shows more women initiate fights than men.

Yes, the endless blaming of men is a hate campaign.

And that mainstream feminists support this mentality is WHY they are linked to the radicals.

I've never yet met a catholic who supported the priests that abused children... but I meet plenty feminists who support blaming men.

[Dyakki]

The point was it was never billed as a "Man Tax." That was a dysphemism given by its detractors -- as you should know, political discourse is often full of those and even the Swedes are not above this, but it was never put forth as a tax against all men, because they are men. There is no hate in Feminism, only resistance. If you perceive that as hate, maybe you need to do some navel gazing.

[mathewskarl]

It was done so because it was implying all men are responsible and accountable for the *minority* of men who do abuse... As studies have shown, repeatedly, women abuse more children than men, where is the feminist calls for a woman-tax? Oh that's right, they ignore the wrongs women do... thus, justifying child abuse (when done by women)....

[Dyakki]

LOL. Show me these so called studies -- I really want to see this. Or tell me where I can find it, just to see how credible and scientific this study is. I'll wait on that one. But to the point -- just so you know, this thing wasn't even a bill. It was more like a manfesto -- a series of ideas put forth. No real legistation. Also, as I said before, many of Tiina Rosenberg's (the woman in question) views were not shared by the mainstream.

[mathewskarl]

But you claim you don't hate men, and yet you were defending the move just earlier. That makes you one of the less appealing feminists, clealry.

As for the studies, look at the data by the government (not feminist data as they are ... selective) and it consistantly shows women are the primary abusers of children. Many feminists DO acknowledge this - but not you... You can't even accept a proven fact, you prefer to think men are doing even women's crimes. Pathetic.

[burnbrother3]

Dyakki,

I'm going to be nice here. Feminism has had it's way with men and society over the past 30+ years.  Men have been conditioned to just take whatever is handed out. No matter how much progress women make it is never enough for them.

What is being said here is that "We're Done". It isn't OK. As a divorced father of two young men I personally know the foolishness that is going on.

Feminism's position that women are permanent victims is driving these actions. We say it isn't OK.

[Dyakki]

Burnbrother3,

I'm going to be mean here. If that is what you really think, then you seriously do not understand what Feminism is. Feminism does not advocate 'permanent victimhood.' It is a social movement against the institutional hegemony of men, not against men or simply being male. You have inculcated this belief that anything that challenges the status quo, one in which you benefit from is somehow evil. Read what the movement is about; you would see it actually serves to improve men.

[mathewskarl]

Improve men to feminist standards... Yes. Now, while I accept MRA's / A/F's and the like do put a lot of blame on feminism (the movement) - feminism endlessly blames men (an entire sex). One of us is sexist... Imagine if men had a movement that constantly - and I mean daily - attacked women... promoting paranoia to other men & women about 'the average woman' and her intentions... you'd be pissed off with it too after a few decades of hate campaigns against women. That's where we are.

[Dyakki]

LOL. You cannot see the because of the trees. Men don't need such a 'movement' because society reflects those views. Granted, women have made a lot of progress, but it took lot of effort and pushing to get there. We don't have parity yet in the U. S. and there are other nations that are actually ahead of us on this front. And again, you misunderstand. It is not about 'blaming individuals' (unless of course, they actively contribute against women's issues) it is about patriarchy.

[mathewskarl]

It took a lot of effort for men to obtain rights too - but feminism pretends men were just handed rights on a silver plate.. more lies and distortions of history.

As for blaming patriarchy, read the magazine factory has released - and it explains the blaming of patriarchy/blaming of men link.

As for being blind... check out the mirror... it must be very sad to hold half the world's population in such contempt... I actually pity you now.

[Dyakki]

Uh... what? Certain there have been divisions of rights and equality BETWEEN men, but there is little to no question that world societies have been male dominated and regulated for a very long time. There is some evidence to suggest that this was not always the case, but for much of history it has been this way. Pointing this out does not imply hate or change the nature of our world, just as looking at the mirror at my beautiful form does not crack it. :] I'm a guy by the way. Self-hate, maybe?

[mathewskarl]

I understand this.

I also understand you are a man... Yes, self-hatred it could well be.

I don't hate my fellow men, nor women. But I am sick of feminism attacking half the population of the world and pretending to be about equality when it is clearly not.

[mathewskarl]

And btw, what you wrote above - looks awfully like an admission of what many MRA's have been saying for a long time... feminism is about 'revenge', not equality.

[Dyakki]

Again, no. No matter what I say, it will be twisted and warped to fit your preconceived notions. It is not about something as petty and simple as revenge, much less against you! You aren't that important that someone needs to take you out to prove a point.

[mathewskarl]

Who needs to twist anything when the actions of feminism have spoken so much louder than any claims it may make? Twisting is not necessary.

[Dyakki]

No, this is about societal change. Of course, that must ultimately come about through individuals, but it is not about attack. The argument you make is as childish as asserting that the greater civil rights movement in the 1960's was about attacking white people. C'mon man.

[mathewskarl]

Did the civil rights movement release endless agenda driven studies to systematically conclude "whites are always to blame" like feminism has done with men?

Did it create fraudulent results from 'studies' and cite one another's works to back themselves up, just to continually hate on whites?

No - there is no comparison.

[Dyakki]

LOL. Hey, some claim it does! And a lot of people that do, also bark the same nonsense about women's issues!

[mathewskarl]

I've asked you to show me some feminist studies that don't blame men (or absolve women of responsibilty)... still waiting. Until then it's true to say that every 'study' (if you can call it that) I've read by feminists has the same predictable result "man bad/woman perfect"

[Jmnzz]

"Until then it's true to say that every "study" (if you can call it that) I've read by feminists has the same predictable result "man bad/woman perfect"

Yup.

The patriarchy lie, the rape culture lie, and whatever the fuck those hate propaganda mongering nut cases have come up with are all based on and follow the ideology that men have and continue to cause every problem in every society, even those that women cause.

The sad excuse "good feminists" use? "Patriarchy hurts men too."

Pathetic.

[Dyakki]

Yeah, sending you SEVERAL now. Check it.

[mathewskarl]

It's taken you this long? I figured you would have lots n' lots to hand... if ones that don't blame men/absolve women (paint man bad/woman good picture) are as common as you say... I guess that it took you so long to locate some, demonstrates how rare they are... mind you, I'm still waiting 30mins later... are you sure you have any? my inbox is still empty....

[Dyakki]

LOL. Just be glad you got them, at, honestly. Like most people (I hope) I'm not constantly refreshing this page or looking at my comment page to see if anyone posted anything. However, I DID send you links in a private YouTube message. If you didn't get them, I can send it again.

[burnbrother3]

Dyakki,

If you've studied Feminism at all they you'll know that Feminists in general don't even agree on what Feminism is. What has happened is that it is whatever they want it to be at any given time. That way they can "hide" behind the cloak of Feminism, when in reality it's just code for misandry.

Men are waking up now. You remind me of women that tell guys that "if they are comfortable in their masculinity" they would buy into the feminist BS. Sorry, we're not buying it.

[Dyakki]

And that proves?

Listen, many organizations and groups ranging from political, to purely social do not all fall into 100% lockstep agreement on every single idea. Even you guys with your "Men's Movement" I'm sure don't agree on everything. But the core principles are what matters. Everyone may not agree on how to address certain problems, but most agree the problems are there. Don't try to delegitimize something just because it doesn't conform to your mythical 100% lockstep agreement status.

[mathewskarl]

You're right - we don't always agree on everything, and there are those in the fringe of the movement.

BUT there are two massively huge differences.

1) There are VERY few even in the radicals who promote hatred towards women.

2) The moderates in this movement DO get on the radicals case about their misogyny. They are banned, removed, chastized, etc. for their hatred.. Meanwhile, moderate feminists sit by with a deaf-ear while the radicals spread endless hate upon men.

[Dyakki]

And of course, you somehow imply that moderate, mainstream Feminism does not often disagree with the more radical strain? Of course, because you think ALL Feminism is 'radical.' So much for fair and balanced.

[mathewskarl]

I've seen feminists claim "that was probably a man who wrote that", I've seen them say "well, after thousands of yr oppression, can you blame them" and a lot more - ultimately, the 'defense' involves blaming men or denying women as being capable of hatred.... But it's only the rarest of occasion to see a feminist defending men from the radicals within their movement. But seeing MRA's defend women from radical MRA's is common place.

[Dyakki]

Feminism has altered predominant perspectives in a wide range of areas within Western society, ranging from culture to law. Feminist activists have campaigned for women's legal rights (rights of contract, property rights, voting rights); for women's right to bodily integrity and autonomy.

[Dyakki]

For reproductive rights (including access to contraception and quality prenatal care); for protection of women and girls from domestic violence, sexual harassment and rape; for workplace rights, including maternity leave and equal pay; against misogyny; and against other forms of gender-specific discrimination against women.

[mathewskarl]

So stop lying by pretending feminism is for 'equality' when it is not. It is for women - and any benefits men *may* obtain from it are purely incidental.

Feminism has specifically fought against equality for men, such as father's rights and the safe-houses for abused men.

The majority of men have and continue to support mother's rights and safehouses for abused women.

Why the double standards?

Feminism promotes sexism against men - it doesn't seek equality, only selective equality

[Dyakki]

So yeah, some mad male hate there! Spooky. If you're done, then so sorry, but you're insanely late. Women have BEEN done. Thats while this exists, that's why it will continue, and that is why you will ultimately lose.

[mathewskarl]

And there's the paranoia you're spreading- feminism pretends the average man is an abuser. It inverts reality to paint only a minority of men of decent... while really, most men are decent and only a minority are bad. But don't let reality stand in the way of your hatred for men.

[burnbrother3]

You guys did an excellent job on this. I'm be printing some up and dropping them off in some Long Beach, CA locations.

Appreciate you doing this. Great Effort!

[factory2590]

I'm gratified that you want ot do that. Hopefully, more people will do so as well.

If you can, I'd suggest printing the high res version...

[lyriclex]

so if feminists don't care about men's rights how come it was the National Organization for Women that asked Warren Farrell to form a men's rights group?

[factory2590]

That revelation surprises me a bit. I know he was the President 2 or 3 times...but actually forming a men's rights group??

When did this happen?

[lyriclex]

the 1960's, when he started forming men's and women's rights groups

[factory2590]

Really? I'll have to ask him about that.

Because those days were a bit prior to his involvement with NOW, and he wasn't particularly interested in Men's Issues until about 15 years ago by all accounts.

He WAS on the NOW board for years though...perhaps you mix up his own initiative with endorsement from NOW...because I have yet to see word one from NOW endorsing a men's group that isn't a carbon copy of feminism....

Regardless, NOW consistently acts against men as often as possible...

[lyriclex]

ask him then

[mathewskarl]

Yes, I'd also be interested in seeing facts to back up this claim... This is the first I've ever in my life heard of this. Lyriclex - do you have any evidence to substantiate this? It would be a most interesting read.

[mathewskarl]

Hmm, still waiting on some credible (or even incredible LOL) evidence of this claim... and it's been a week since the claim was made.

[Dyakki]

Uh, of what claim? And I said I sent you stuff in a message. I dunno what you did with it or if you even read it, but I will send it again. Somehow, I seriously doubt it will help, and tomorrow I will return to find another "LOL I BEAEN WATAIN FOR MONTHS FOR EVIDENNEESS." Well, keep waiting. And while you do that, the real adults who know better will move on. You stand and our way, and You Shall Know Our Velocity.

[menareangrynow]

I just heard Warren Farrell talking about that incident in an interview with Trottier, on The Pendulum Effect. He was only asked to do it; because, the New York chapters for NOW were trying to ban men from their organization, and they needed a place to put the males that were in their organization. And, the group they asked him to form was a women's right group, composed of men, not a men's rights group.

[lyriclex]

so if they were trying to ban men from their organization how come farrell was the leader of NOW TWICE

[crypter27]

@menareangrynow Feminist are acting out of desperation,they know the snake has turned & men aren't putting up with this shit. ANY MORE

[Introspectre1]

I read it, excellent first effort, passed it on to a few friends as well. Now I just need to actually buy a printer!

[damiecol85]

Pretty cool idea dude, there's definitely a need for it.

[factory2590]

That's what I think too...

I'm gathering talent together if anyone's interested....?

[MysteryManoLove]

Thats wonderful man, I can't wait to print and distribute it. I'm working on my book against feminism now which asks the basic question is feminism even nessisary and well, I contend that it is not.

[thecreepyguy]

That's an interesting and somewhat true point because many countries got women the right to vote BEFORE america WITHOUT a feminist movement. Tbh i'm not into the whole conspiracy theorists BS but there seems to be some other reason why feminism came about.

[videodads]

Great stuff, factory - fully supported by most sites, SYG, AM, NG, etc.

[pinegrove33]

Excellent idea. You're doing fine work man. I'm going to check the mag link now.

[ORVX]

Keep up the good work!

[java501]

I wondered what happened to you as your video output seemed to dip. good work now i see you have been quite busy. good job

[sirskeptic]

Downloaded, read. Good job.

For the next issue can we get more pictures? Go to the doctors/dentists and pick up glossy mags, what catches your eye, what makes you want to read the articles in them?

I've been leaving a Roy F. Baumeister essay (Is There Anything Good About Men? ) in surgeries for a year now. It needs to be broken up and have pictures added.

Graphs are also good.

[thecreepyguy]

i loved reading that essay by Roy F. Baumeister.

:)

I was lucky enough to stumble upon it on the internet but it was so well written it could of been sold as a short book.

[factory2590]

There's definitely need for more pictures. That will happen more and more with each issue, but keep in mind the ones that are there represent about 250 hours of work. :)

[TheHappyMisogynist]

I am hoping that if there is anyone out there with photoshop and graphics skills they will be contacting you to volunteer to do some original graphics for the magazine. C'mon guys, let's help THE FACTORY do his thing!

[menareangrynow]

I just read it. It's a perfect little piece for us to distribute at future rallies. Speaking of which, we should be thinking of doing a few public things in the future, such as a talk at a park, or a protest somewhere. PR is important after all.

Factory, Amfortas, Paul, and everyone else, you guys did a great job! My compliments!

[Red0660]

Factory, could you please post the links in the sidebar to make them more accessible?

[factory2590]

I would be more than happy to, I just don't know how. :)

[caltrop69]

Just copy the address from the address bar in another window, then and paste it to your video description.

[factory2590]

Done.  Thanks for the tip.

[Red0660]

Great work guys! It's great to see the movement grow by the day!

Form ranks and speak out in numbers! Together we can make the rights of men and fathers be heard by the world..  nice work factory! I'm off to read it now......

[TheHappyMisogynist]

Factory needs to be more honest. A group of us writers contributed articles, but it was Factory alone who put this thing together from scratch. And a superlative job he did.

It will be available on my site at A Voice for Men before the weekend is out and we have already put it on the front page of Men's News Daily. I am going to make stack of the magazines pass the word around.

Great job Factory.

[thecreepyguy]

This magazine can be found on factorys website

Hunting for Archetypes blogspot

I just read all of it and it was excellent

nice work factory and everyone who helped out.

[factory2590]

Thanks, I appreciate the encouragement.