본국검 本国劒 (KoreanSword) From 무예도보통지(武藝圖譜通志): It appears Wubei Zhi ( 武備志) written by Mao Yuanyi (茅元儀) acquired the book of sword combat from Chosun considering he compared Chosun sword methods with Dang Un's. It is obvious Chosun Had already developed the manual of Bon Guk Gum ( 본국검 本国劒) as they were compared to Japanese Ssangsu.
@enushisama 今因黃倡郞爲本國劍之緣起. 本國劒 is orginated from 新羅 (shiragi in Japanese). however, Korean did not success whole part of this art. Some part is revealed from Mr.Mao's book, and korean received it and mixed with what had been successing. That is the exact 本國劒 described in 武藝圖譜通志.
@enushisama First of all, according to 武藝圖譜通志 and mr.mao's book, mr.mao learned and imported korean 本國劒. Hundreds yrs later, korean re-imported mao's book and find lost part of 本國劒. it is like how Ramien became Ramen. Also, obviously, in 武藝圖譜通志 there are two text, 等韻 and 尚書. 等韻 is used as an example which indicates that Korea had made its own sword art. 尚書 is used as an example which indicates that Korean had received the lost part through mr.mao's book.
@enushisama 제독검 (提督劍) Not Chinese! 제독검 is traced back to General Yi Yu Song -A Chinese General of KOREAN Decent! His 5th descendent, Yi Won, had Korean concubine who had some Chun Keun. Chun Keun was given Yi Won's sword. Around 1746 Mu Chun, Chun Keun's descendent still had the sword and the historical facts of the sword were engraved for him by Yi Un Sang.
The Chinese officer 駱尙志 advised the Korean minister柳成龍. "The Korean army is weak. But the Japanese army has not been withdrawn from Korea yet. You should make soldiers study martial arts."
He chooses ten Chinese as teachers, and began to teach sword art and others. Since he was the admiral's subordinate, it called the admiral sword.
@HDGDisnotfromkendo but still he is just korean discendent. that does not mean his sowrd art itself is a korean one. that is obviously chinese one. As a korean I disagree. you are violating big thing.. this situation is like Israel clamins that relative theory of Eisntein is not American work, but it is their because Einstein is a jew... don't even try it is hilarious. we should admit what we must admit.
@enushisama (cont) Paintings of Imjin War battles clearly show Koreans fighting Japanese with straight AND curved swords! These were the recruited civilian militia types that fought. These were some of the styles added to the 무예제보(武藝諸譜), later 무예신보(武藝新譜), later 무예도보통지(武藝圖譜通志)
@enushisama I am really tired" of you idiots first post on every single HDGD YouTube video quoting 무예도보통지 "Only archery was practiced bla, bla, bla" All Koreans know at the time Archery was the only official military training method, but there were tons and tons of non-military martial arts practiced in Korea. Similar to Japan had many clans specializing in certain kenjitsu or bujitsu methods that were not part of military.
武藝圖譜通志 ( Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts in Korea)
The sword arts in the book.
雙手刀 (LongSword) = Japanese sword art
提督劒 (AdmiralSword) = Chinese sword art
雙劒 (DoubleSword) = Chinese sword art
本国劒/鋭刀 (KoreanSword) = The lost Chinese sword art. The textbook was discovered in Korea. However, it is the Chinese martial art in practice. Can the martial art be learned only by reading the book?
Where is the sword art of Korea which continues without breaking off from ancient times?
일본 놈들 아주 지랄이구먼. 야 일본 놈들아! 솔직히 까놓고 네놈들이 켄도(劍道) 어쩌고 떠드는데 중국의 한서(漢書)에 이미 나오는 단어잖아. 그게 네놈들의 고유한 단어냐? 네놈들이야말로 중국의 '劍道'를 카피하고 도둑질하고 있는 주제에. 그리고 무예도보통지(武藝圖譜通志)에는 왜검(倭劍)이라 해서 네놈들 검법은 따로 소개 되거든. 무예도보통지의 본국검(本國劍)은 신라 시대부터 내려온 것으로 조선의 고유 검법이며 현존하는 가장 오래된 검법이다. 그러고 보니 명(明)의 모원의가 쓴 무비지(武備志)에는 조선세법(朝鮮勢法)도 전하는구나. 이것도 복원하고 있던데...어쨌든 어디서 감히 천박한 역사를 가지고 검도(劍道)를 세계화했다고 니들이 그 모든 것의 근원인양 까불어! 이러면 또 비겁하게 그 중국의 劍道와 의미가 다르다며 떠들겠지? 일본 놈들아 남 헐뜯기 전에 니들 주제 파악부터 해라.
Dishrack, you are a ubiquitous pile of shit. Your knowledge of martial arts has the same quality as that of your knowledge of science- which is to say- zero.
I can't think of a single thing in which your opinion would be of value. (You probably have the same suspicion- which is why you spend so much time grandstanding- you know that you are a sack of worthless dog tripe)
Neo Nazi Japanese Nationalist are the only ones complaining about who made the curved blade. Who the hell invented the automobile and curry and blue jeans then. Stop all the FUCKING hating, you guys sound like little bitches. Japan did not invent the curved blade you morons. Stop arguing for fuck sakes.
Court decision said HDGD was combination of Shim Gumdo and Ki Chun (Both Korean and unrelated to Kendo!) Someone please tell me if kendo practices any of the following forms practiced in Haidong Gumdo listed in 무예도보통지? 쌍수도 (雙手刀-Ssang Soo) 예도 (銳刀-Yedo) 제독검 (提督劍-Jedok Geum) 본국검 (本國劍-bonguk Gum) 쌍검 (雙劍-Ssang Gum) Answer is THEY DON'T Because it is Korean and Not Japanese. Can you leave us HDGD guys alone now?
Kumdo/Gumdo is the Korean pronunciation of Kendo and it was introduced into the Korean Peninsula from Japan during the period of the Japanese protectorate and annexation (1895-1945). Before that martial arts didn't exist in Korea. So it's never a traditional Korean martial art from ancient times.
It's true that Koreans began learning sword skills from Chinese and they called it 本國劍/本国剣 in the 18th century, but it didn't catch on.
The first time Koreans used the word "HaedongKumdo/海東剣道" was in about 1982. It's not so long ago. In short, it's a fraud that they claim HaedongKumdo is a Korean traditional martial art.
Incidentally, the parties have already pleaded guilty to the HaedongKumdo fraud in a Korean court.
What Koreans are doing now is a creation based on Japanese Kendo. But because the new martial art required Koreans to make a difference from Kendo, they adopted flashy action stunts like jumping or spinning.
First, you Koreans must set out the records of HaedongKumdo before 1970s if you can.
How about videos? Is there a film until 1980 showing HaedongKumdo?
How about pictures? Is there a picture until 1980 showing HaedongKumdo?
How about historical records? Since the 17th century many Westerners stayed in the Korean Peninsula. They wrote about Korean archery but any swordplay or unarmed martial art doesn't appear in those records. Don't you find this strange?
You Koreans had better admit HaedongKumdo is a fraud and stop spreading lies immediately.
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie That's why there's the Muye Dobo Tongji of 1790, made before the introduction of Gekiken (predecessor of Kendo and Gumdo). The video here shows the techniques of that book. Before the Muye Dobo Tongji there was also the Muye Jebo and Muye Shinbo.
武藝圖譜通志 (1790) says "然止弓矢一技而已，如槍劍法技，既未之聞焉". It means that they have skills of archery but have no skills of sword or spear fighting. Also that calls 本國劍 a "new swordplay". In short, 本國劍 is a new swordplay established in the 18th century. 武藝圖譜通志 was transcribed from 武藝諸譜 (muye jebo) and 武藝新譜 (muye shinbo). And you can find Korean swordplay only in the books.
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie It depends on how you read it. The vast majority of the Joseon soldiers were draftees from poor farming classes, which would mean that they had lacked any sword or spear fighting skills. Archery was a basic skill for most of the citizens, and it was a past time for many noblemen of that time. in 1790, the king also abolished any martial arts to the lower classes. Yes, you can find Korean swordplay only in the books maybe a decade ago, but people are trying to use those books
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie to revive the old arts which were well documented in the MDT. 本國劍 actually roughly translates to "Their swords". If you wanted to translate it to "New Swordplay" you need to write it as "新劍". The fact is, there are documents regarding the arts and the Muye24ki group is trying to revive them. Don't be hating on them just because the Koreans finally have something they can redeem.
@YunSeung I would have to disagree on this one. 本 is translated as Bon (this or our), 國 is translated as Guk (country or nation) and 劍 is translated as Gum (sword) So "Our Nation's Sword." At the time the Nation of Shilla's Sword. Do you see how arrogant japanese are? Even the name of their country: 日本 (일본) "First Country" They think they are 1st at everything.
@HDGDisnotfromkendo I was talking about the literal Chinese definition (since that is what he seemed to be going off of) and 本國劍 roughly translates to "Their Swords" in Chinese. In Korea, obviously it is read differently; 本國劍 is read as "Bongukgeom" respectively. 日本 or Nippon actually means a "Land of rising sun" when translating it by how the Japanese read the Chinese characters. Japan was called 倭国 or Waeguk, but this changed after the Japanese realized that the term Wae 倭 meant "Barbaric"
@YunSeung You are right I was think Il as in One, not Sun. Also, I always thought Wae meant foreign, not barbaric (as in Waeguk In-foreigner) Anyway, they will never refute or even admit any proof you provide them, they will just ignore it and shift the attention elsewhere. It's all they do.
@YunSeung I know this is a old post but i couldnt help it...Wae does not mean barbaric but "midget,drawf" etc etc. The early Chinese dynasties called Japan Dwarf country(Wa-kou) so they later changed it to another character and word with the same sound (Wa) which meant "Harmony". The Chinese had a thing with word play, writing down foreign names with alternative characters with demeaning definitions but with the same sounds.
@YunSeung The Japanese endonym Wa 倭 "Japan" derives from the Chinese exonym Wō 倭 "Japan, Japanese", a Chinese character that had some offensive connotation, possibly "submissive, docile, obedient", "bowing; bent over", or "short person; dwarf".
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie Muye Dobo Tongji only says archery was the only official "MILITARY" organized training method. it does not say it was the only thing practiced in Korea at all. 本國劍 or Bonguk Gum, is historically traced backed to Shilla Dynasty and was included in Muye Dobo Tongji after searching Korea for it's own native martial arts to add to the original Chinese book that made up Muye Jebo, before Muye Shinbu. Can you please tell me if Japanese Kendoka or Iaidoka perform 本國劍???
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie This is not true, it says that archery was the only standardized military training, not that it was the only one in Korea. They went out after Imjin wars to find more martial arts to add to the original Chinese manual and came across Bonguk 本國劍 & added it. It even says in Muye Dobo Tongji. It is well documented that Bonguk Gumbup originated in Shilla Dynasty, and not all martial techniques from the 3 kingdoms era were absorbed into Jeseon Dynasty.
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie Bon Guk Gum is not from China idiot. 본국검 本国劒 (KoreanSword) From 무예도보통지(武藝圖譜通志): It appears Wubei Zhi ( 武備志) written by Mao Yuanyi (茅元儀) acquired the book of sword combat from Chosun considering he compared Chosun sword methods with Dang Un's. It is obvious Chosun Had already developed the manual of Bon Guk Gum ( 본국검 本国劒) as they were compared to Japanese Ssangsu. Chinese Bubishi was comparing Chosun's method with Japan's! Your lies are easily proved wrong.
@woody3721 Koreans had curved blades before the Imjin war and Japanese occupation. Chinese did too but no one ever say much about Chinese people stealing. That's probably because Chinese curved blades precede pretty much all Japanese swords. Like the Zhanmadao mentioned in the book of song. It's attributes were drawn out and well described and it strangely resembles basically all Japanese swords. Koreans probably benefited their sword knowledge of curved blades during the Tang invasions.
@YunSeung Koreans had single edged curved blades all the way back to Goguryo dynasty. I appreciate your research in combating these Neo nazi Japanese Nationalists. Have you ever seen Admiral Yi Sun Sin's swords forged in 1594 During the Imjin wars in Korea? These guys never address these every time I point it out.
@HDGDisnotfromkendo Ha, well that's because they're not trying to be factual. Their research is limited to excerpts they find on the internet (probably some Japanese geocities website) and they read waaaay too much into it. They completely disregard the fact that all three countries (China, Japan, Korea) do not read the characters in the same way.
@HDGDisnotfromkendo They also have this ridiculous idea that Koreans steal everything. If you know about the Japanese occupation, you know that they didn't "STEAL" it, the Japanese FORCED them to learn it. It's like raping a girl and suing her because she "stole your sperm".
@HDGDisnotfromkendo Oh and lets not forget that they also think that "Kumdo" is a stolen version of "KENDO". lol. It's like they're trying to fight ignorance by preying on the ignorant people. Every Kumdo (as in Daehan Kumdo) practitioner knows that their masters were taught Gekiken a while back. Same how everyone knows that the founder of Taekwondo General Choi also practiced Karate. Do people know that Karate is actually a form of Quanfa? No one? Maybe we should say Japanese people steal shit.
@YunSeung I really pray that not all Japanese people think like these Nationalist Racists and that it is a small minority, but at last count it's like 80 of them to like 3 or 4 of us guys combating their lies and hate. So it's not looking good.
@HDGDisnotfromkendo hahaha well your prayers are answered. Most Japanese people don't care about history and many of them remain ignorant of what happened during the World War II era (except the atomic bomb). Most of the people who do argue against the Korean wave spend way too much time on the computer. Plus, most of the time, the people who do seem nationalist aren't even Japanese; they are mostly white people who think they know everything. SO don't worry. They'll die out soon.
@woody3721 Also, strange you mention armor of China when it has been debated that Japanese armor is also derived from Chinese armor as well. Heck, China's not all that original either. Most of their influences have come from India, which had curved blades before the Chinese... But they also probably learned about that from the Persians. All you have to do is take a course of Anthropology and you know that arguing about originality is utter BS.
Why does he use samurai sword? Korean traditional swords are straight and double-edged swords. Please stop using samurai swords. Due to a part of Koreans like you, all koreans are fooled by Japanese.
@ihahahayou True as it Wol Do(Curved sword/Moon sword) influenced the making of Japanese curved swords, however also keep in mind the Wol Do itself was influenced by the Chinese Sword (I forgot its name,,,)..I dunno where the chinese got their swords from..maybe from India? or they just might have made it themselves :)
@ihahahayou Hahaha yes, i guess that might be true :), but we say that because China had that much of a influence in Korea, because about weaponry at least the the 1600 Japan had almost no influence on Korea, so the only place would be China,(though trades between India was recorded),/ This is for the other people- the armor was influenced by the Mongolians(aka China) when they have invaded korea, after such armor above was adopted.
@kim4738 Every country has had influence on all the country. Korea had influence on some of the farming as well. I think the major thing china had influence was weaponry using gun powder which was used to defeat the war with Japan with the fraction of their number. What is new to me is the armory you said that was adapted from Mongolians. Mongolians are not also known as china. They have defeated china with the weaponry that china were using. and what armor are you referring to?
@taihuu25go Korean Kingdoms existed and expanded into asia and into Island Japan even before existence of Japan. Need to read history. All sword in Japan as origin in Korean, even the Japan King/Emperor is of Korean bloodline. Also Silla Korean Kingdom created Jin Dynasty which conquered china in 12th and 16th century. People of Jin Dynasty is called Jin-Na or world knows as Chin-Na/China. Get the history right.
@taihuu25go Today Japanese is different from Korea today. Even before the Kudara, the people of Korea Kingdom and Baekjae emperor move to Japan and establish new Kingdoms. Emperor of Japan as already testified that his bloodline is from Baekjae as recent as year 2005. This is no big deal as many Koreans colonized the island called Japan which did not have huge pupulation during that time. People just moved, that is all... It was not like Koreans moving to Japan and pushed everyone out.
I make the Korean textbook the Korea government thinks about the nation, and to control it.
The ancient Korean is different from a current Korean.
In addition, there is not the trace that such people prepared the kingdom into in Japan.
Even if there are the historical materials that ancient Japan ruled the southern part of the Korean Peninsura, there are not the historical materials that a modern Korean ruled over Japan.
@taihuu25go Actually,there are many South Korean Baekjae artifacts in Japan, especially LOYAL Castles and architectures.When Baekjae collapsed, Korean King and his follower went to their territory colony of island Japan without any resistance from local Japanese. NOW having said that, the bloodlines of Baekjae which currently live in Japan can say they are Baekjae people of Korean Southern Kingdom where they lived in the past. If you accept Baekjae as your bloodline, then your argument stand.
@taihuu25go You have to be more specific on which time era of China as china was ruled by many. As stated in previouse reply, Jin dynasty of Korea conquered china in 12th century and 16th century and formed Qing/Chung Dynasty, during this time Jin Dynasty influence was the new china, and chinese assimulated into Jin Dynasty culture(and sword warfare) and rule of law. Jin Dynasty ruled china for around 500years which combines both invasion in 12th and 16th century.
@taihuu25go First, you need to understand that CHINA was formed by Jin Dynasty which was formed by Silla Royal "Golden Kim" Family of Korean Kingdom. China's Emperor's family surname means "Love of Silla". The Qing or Chung Dynasty which collpased in 19th century before communist take over, states Qing Dynasty was of Jin Dynasty created by Silla Royal Kim family of Korea. You will need to provide evidence to disclaim including historical evidence.But common sense provides Japan was learning.
korean of the time period they are depciting did not practice martial arts except archery. this is just a modern creation to show "how great " u guys are.
I assume that you received your information from the the king's forward section of the book Muyedobotongji. If you read further, you would have learned that several attempts were made by pre-occupation Korea to revitalize the military & what you see in this clip is a demonstration of their efforts. Although most of the information in the book was influenced by Chinese & some Japanese arts, the book also discusses older Korean systems such as bonguk gumbup, choson sebup & subak.
You are correct that this clip is "modern" since this system's practice became virtually extinct. This is most likely due to both the Japanese occupation & old Korea's neo-Confucian mind set. Since some Koreans do agree that Tae Kwon Do, Kumdo & Yudo are just Korean versions of Japanese arts, they are trying to revitalize pre-occupation martial systems. Rather than chastise these groups, perhaps you should be glad that there are attempts to bring back historically legitimate arts.
"Not all curved swords used in East Asia are Japanese, nor can it be said that all styles of curved swords found in East Asia are the result of Japanese influence. The curved sword originated in the Won Dynasty rather than in Japan. Also, curved Mongolian swords were used even earlier, before being adopted by Japan. Going further back, a curved bronze sword was excavated at the Byongmayonggang, the tomb of the Emperor of Chin." - History of Steel in Eastern Asia
and where did you heard that? japenis? Chinazi? LoL, study the true history, everything Japan have its stolen from Korea. Even geisha is stolen culture. Katana? another stolen sword from Korea. Korean history is lot older than Japan, China? they are from far south, they were under Manchu rule for last 300 years.
katana is definitely japanese! geisha is not gisaeng! china was under manzu rule which is true but korea was under everybodys rule(han chinese,manzu,mongol,japan)
lol, another brain washed poofta. Japan was under Korean colonies for centuries when Korea was under Japan for only 37 years. Manchu/Mongol destroyed Chinese states, when they allowed Korea to remain independent. Katana is Not Japanese origin, there was no horse in Japan until Koreans brought them up too. japanese writing is also invented by Koreans.
japan was never conquered by korea! actually japan conquered n dominated during early 20th century.china destroyed ancient chosen n dominated korea for a long time.u daont have to say mongol conquered china bcz its mongol not korea
kana was originated from chinese writing system not from korea.hangul was made during chosen dynasty but kana was used already for several hundred yrs at that time.
lol, another bakka. Look Korea used Hanja that's same as kanji you fool. Kana was changed during 17th century, again this show you don't have knowledge in Japanese language. Hangul was invented to replace Hanja in 14th century, 3 century ahead of new kana system. Both kanji/Kana was originated from Chinese hanzi. Learn the history you bakka
Really, centuries? Why is it then that genetic mapping shows that korea and japan are vastly different? Korea is extremely similar to the Chinese genetically and it's been noticed that portions of it's population (usually centred around large cities) have half Japanese blood. Suspiciously enough it's the elder generation (i.e. the pleasure women for japanese troops).
What you are is a brainwashed Korean who can't bring himself to be proud of his REAL heritage.
japan claim everything theirs but only sumo, kendo r urs. other stuff r copied from korea or china! honestly, the line between korean/japanese/chinese culture is very, very thin sometimes. all 3 cultures borrowed from each other.
@myth8745 im chinese i can tell u ancient korea was a weak country they only adopted chinese culture its only recently korean nationalist teach the korean yourh that we(china/korea) taught japan stuff but before the japan was already quite civilized and wooping koreas ass. Its writen in ur own historical records korea could have bee beetter if they Had more rulers like Sejong but because of corrupt bureacrats = shanty civilization.
it shud be noted that the so called iron clad korean troops "철기병" were not mainly used against the Japanese but against the Chinese mostly. It was VERY expensive to armor a soldier in STEEL. Steel back then was hard to make and the creation of steel swords were an art as well as armor. But neither side employed such heavy cavalry since both sides preferred infantry with heavy to light swords and spears.
Hope I helped, as for attire I think they all look similar in some way, Chinese too
These draw backs and goods can be demonstrated in the Japanese invasion. Samurais moved in close packs back to back and could devastate enemy with medium Armour powerful strikes. However when faced against light Korean infantry who practiced Ssangumbub the samurais were out matched for these soldiers utilized kicking and hand combat much more and moved in and out quickly and dispatched samurais with thrusts. This was off course off set by reinforcement of different troops on both sides.
thus much of the equipment are shared and techniques are similar. But it shud be noted that both cultures are similar in the art of swords only to differ in sowrd making. Japanese swords steel folding was very different from that of the korean swords and each has its goods and draw backs.
For one Japanese swords tended to be heavier and a little bit longer. Thus the cutting capability was higher, where the Korea sword was a tad shorter and lighter meant to thrust and slash.
I read these and and I was wondering if I could ass some clarity.
Haidong gumdo is not that old by it self, it was established newly in the 50's. It wasn't newly developed but renamed. Ssansudo and other musul bub (법) were the original korean sword practice. Ssansudo and Ssangumbub's roots are way before japanese kendo, and kenjutsu arts.
Japanese art of kendo is very similar to gumdo since kendo is a older then gumdo in respect to offical naming.
Most Japanese MA are born and standardized during 19th century. Korean MA standardized 17th century. Chinese did at least thousand year earlier with Kungfu, but did not standardized until recently.
In Japan, we have Samurai armers and history proofs from more than 1000yrs ago. So, Korea started 17th century by copying Japan, maybe..who knows..there aren't any proofs in Korea.
lol, proof what more do you want, Korea have full of archeological evidence that Koreans started iron smiting before japanese. Yoyr samurai didn't have metallic armor before 17th century. 1000 yrs ago? oh man you're seriously brain washed by Hollywood movies
Your are wrong on Samurai armer and Katana are started way before 17c. It is commonly known that Kanata history is more than 1000yrs. Are you reading Korean history book...sorry these books are full of anti Japan stuff and telling you wrong history...everyone knows that. Be careful...friendly advise.
Let me get this straight with you, 1st there is no mention of Japanese stuff from old Korean books. Other than 16th century Imjin war records. Your glorious samurai over ran japan & killed thousands of Japanese commoners in the name of war. all I know, Hollywood made samurai as honorable warrior who stands for protecting his people, another bullshit.
You're wrong again here. Korean swords were highly prized by ancient samurai; even though the oldest Katana is found in Japan, older, larger predecessors to the Katana are found in Korea. Who cares though?
oldest katana is only 17th century, armor from 7th century looking identical to Korean 4~6th century. It was all iron, then suddenly 16th century samurai came to Korea with bunch of bamboo armors. how do you explain this? is this mean Japan went backward?
The oldest katana is only 17th century?? ha ha ha ha..do you study first. Samurai started more than 1000yrs ago when Japan have Kamakura era, and at that time, they had Katana. Are you 10yrs old and reading picture book? In 16th century when Japan went Korea, Japan brought guns already. Seriously, do some readings before posting comments.
my evidence is right from Jpn source, 1000 yrs old katana is not exist anymore my little friend. Korea too have 1500 years old iron sword too but in badly in shape. Japan imported Portuguese arquebuses & Koreans had their rocket cannons no Japanis able to make. Read on Imjin war
You said Japan start to make Katana in 17c....and now said 1000yr katana is not exsit anymore....which one you are following? In term of sword, they found more than 2000 yrs old bronz one just recently in Japan. And you are right about guns. Japan first study from Protuguese. But in 17c, they start produce by themselves....at that time, Japan holds more guns than Europe. All metal technolgies are already developed that time. Do you think Katana produced same time as guns?
lol, you obviously have bad English skill. Oldest surviving katana is from 17th century and it's in bad shape. Previously, katana originated in the Muromachi period from 14~16th century you fool. Learn Japanis history first before you reply. These shinny steel katana is all 19-20th century made.
I am a Japanese and not native English speaker...is there anything wrong with it?
Regarding Katana history, you better come to Japan and visit national musium and see Koto(means old Katana). You will see it. I am Japanese and know more than you about Katana. And "Japanis" isn't right "Japanese" is right spelling. Do not believe history book of Japan wrote by non Japanese. Ass hole!
Western sources are not always reliable. You have to keep in mind that most of the books you read are books written at any time when Japan rose more quickly in the Western imagination.
As a Korean myself, I need you to stop right there. You said katana did not exist until 17th century and then you go on and say that they originated in 14th~16th century...? Dude, make up your mind!
Wrong. Korea was more powerful with a greater influence than Japan until the mid 1800's. The proofs are in the Samgukyusa, the Royal historical files, etc., which are older.
It doesn't really matter. Japan is our closest kin, and our shared cultural values is what matters, not who did what first. The US went to the moon, is Japan copying? Baloney.
Korean martial arts, except for a few artworks and records such as bonguk-geopbup, chosun saebeop, ssireum, and taekkyun, extincted after the Japanese occupation. Despite the Korean govt's propaganda about the history of TKD, the history of TKD is only less than 70 years ago. The Korean Karate practitioners returned to their motherland after the war and performed Karate in front of president Rhee. Rhee took favor of the MA, and thus, that's how TKD was created!
Karate isn't even Japanese. It was developed in Okinawa when the Ryukyu Islands were under CHINESE rule.
Jujitsu and sumo came from Chin Na and Shuai Jiao. The naginata and the nagamaki were inspired by Chinese kwan daos and pu daos. The katana came from the miao dao.
So the next time you point to the Koreans, remember you have three fingers pointing back at you.
Let's also talk about the things the Japanese stole from the Koreans in the first half of the 20th Century.
They took a lot of Korean lives. They kidnapped Korean women and turned them into "comfort women" for Japanese soldiers. They kidnapped Korean men and inducted them into the Japanese armed forces, forcing them to fight for them in World War II.
I guess the Koreans weren't the only thieves in Asia.
my grandfather was one of such people who were forced to fight in a Japanese destroyer.
And in relation to Kumdo
The original sport of Kumdo/Kendo came from Korea, however the robes, armor and equipment used today has been developed by the Japanese. Though today's sport of Kumdo/Kendo is heavily influenced by Japan, the very roots of the sport has come from Korea.
I agree. I study Japanese Martial arts but there is no denying the crimes Japan committed on her neighbors. Adding insult to injury many Japanese refuse to acknowledge the fascist expansion their country wrought brought much suffering.
long ago during three kingdom age, one of three kingdoms "Baekje" taught many things to japan. how make weapens and grow rice. Korean have two kinds of martial arts one is Taekkyon and other one is Taekwondo. The original martial art is Taekkyon. If you don't things about korea completely don't say anything because you're just racist and ignorant!
The Kumdo you may be referring to is Daehan Kumdo. Korean people, except for a few anti-Japanese ones, admit that it is a Japanese martial art. However, the one in this video is Musa Kumdo. I'm not quite sure if this sword art actually existed, but Daehan Kumdo (Japanese Kendo) and Musa Kumdo are two different martial arts.
errr, WHAT? Kumdo and Kendo are the same thing, and no, it's not specifically a Japanese thing, like sushi, cherry blossoms, or the East Sea...the Japanese made variations which are popular in their own right, but to claim ownership of shared cultural things is plainly wrong.
yes, it's like sushi, except in a broader perspective. kimbap is considered a korean sushi, while california roll is considered a japanese sushi. the same way applies for kumdo/kendo. this so-called daehan kumdo is a japanese martial art, while bonguk keombeop and chosun saebeop are basically two of the few surviving korean sword arts.
I think you're confused about origin of sword art. It's simply cultural, and shared between Korea and Japan. Whether you think any variation is one or the other, all them share styles and practices of both countries.
Even though Japan gets more of the credit, just chill. Korea will still get it's time to shine someday.
China, Korea, and Japan share a similar, yet very distinguishably different culture. Although Korea adopted its sword culture from China and Japan from Korea's kingdom, Paekche, the difference in the each culture/perspective developed each sword art differently. In Chinese and Korean sword arts, the names of the techniques were based on animals. They often applied kicks, flips and turns in their techniques. (e.g. 2 turns and then stab would be called something like white tiger stab.)
LOL. Why would you think that Japan based their sword culture from Baekche? Totally not the case. They came from Baeche, but the entire sword culture isn't based from it.
Korea only adopted specific things from China, for infantry and the like; Korea had much more specialized sword culture, which was probably why they could withstand against China's huge armies during most of history.
Well, some Japanese haters I met when I was doing Kendo in Korea told me that's the reason why Daehan Kumdo is a Korean martial art.
I think it was much more than a sword culture that made Korea able to withstand the Chinese armies. Plus, China had a huge population; they never bothered to produce a quality soldier.
However, in Japan, their names of the techniques were simple and straightforward. If they were aiming for the face, it's a face strike. If they were aiming for the body, it's a body strike. And like Kendo (Daehan Kumdo), it's overcoming the enemy in a single strike. The Kendo we see today (with bogu/hogu, "hakama," and "gi") was developed in Japan since the Edo Period, and it wasn't until the Japanese presence in the 1800's Kendo was introduced to Korea..
Korea DID have names for techniques coordinating with body parts, EVERYONE did. The animal techniques you're talking about are fighting poses and combination attacks that mimicked animals. Japan did have poses that were named after animals also, but have that more in Karate and other hand combat arts.
Okay then, give me examples of Korean techniques that are not named after the animals. Dude, I'm talking about the development of "Kendo" in Japan "during" the Edo Period. Sorry for not being specific there.
You're right, according to one of the founders of the International Kendo Federation, Kendo and Kumdo is the same thing. We just have different perspectives on where Kendo comes from.
Daehan Kumdo? It's just 1v1 dueling, not Japanese, Korean or whatever. Haidong Kumdo is more combat strategy.
Like I mentioned before, Daehan Kumdo is a Japanese martial art, even people in Korea admit that. (It's only a small percentage of the anti-Japanese ones that make a big issue out of it.) Also, the younger Korean generations are more willing to admit that it is a Japanese martial art.
LOL. Kumdo and Kendo are shared man; I can't stress that enough and who in Korea says it's Japanese? Perhaps the international uniform and names for things are, but like I said, different perspective on where Kumdo/Kendo started.
People in Korea and Koreans in the US, of course. They admit Kendo is Japanese. Like some of the people I know, I first started Kendo in a "Kumdo" dojang. Believe me, I thought Kumdo was Korean martial art, too. But after traveling and doing Kendo in South Korea, I found that only a small percentage of people do not admit it's a Japanese martial art. This is their claim: "Japan modernized Kendo, but the history of Kendo came from Paekche's sword culture."
I think you're a bit ill-informed; Haidong Kumdo is not recognized by the Korean government as a "real" martial art. As you know already, it's made by a single man (90% through his imagination) named Nam Han-il. It's funny, because these Haidong Kumdo people degrade Daehan Kumdo just for the fact that it's a Japanese martial art. Well, but that's how they do business...
LOL...totally wrong there. Governments don't recognize sports; Sports Associations do. Haidong Kumdo is the combination of a bunch of different localized country sword arts. It's just called Haidong Kumdo when Nam Han-il and a few other guys combined the associations in the 1980's.
You're trying to pass yourself off as an expert; STOP doing that, you're just expressing an opinion and misrepresenting Korean people
My bad, I was on fire... Didn't meant to say Korean government. But whatever... That's not important. People don't recognize Haidong Kumdo as a sport. I don't know whose side of the argument to believe: Haidong Kumdo people say Daehan Kumdo is Japanese martial art, and Daehan Kumdo people say Haidong Kumdo is fake.
LOL. Me, trying to be an expert? Sorry bro, like you said, I'm just stating my opinion, and I don't think you're any different. You haven't given me any facts, either--just your opinion. Considering myself a proud Korean, I don't think I'm being more bias toward Japan. In fact, I'm trying hard not to be bias at all..
You know, I used to go around and say Kumdo was Korean too. But my trip to Korea completely changed my perspective. I've noticed mostly Kumdo dojang in the US teaches Kumdo as a Korean martial art.
본국검 本国劒 (KoreanSword) From 무예도보통지(武藝圖譜通志): It appears Wubei Zhi ( 武備志) written by Mao Yuanyi (茅元儀) acquired the book of sword combat from Chosun considering he compared Chosun sword methods with Dang Un's. It is obvious Chosun Had already developed the manual of Bon Guk Gum ( 본국검 本国劒) as they were compared to Japanese Ssangsu.
HDGDisnotfromkendo 4 months ago
@HDGDisnotfromkendo Mr. Mao is not comparing sword art. He compared the "situation." Dang Un等韻= classical Chinese rhyme: It was found in Western
尚書= Chinese ancient books: It was found in Japan
Chinese lost things were found in foreign countries. Sword art is also the same.
Mr.Mao called it the lost Chinese sword art. He did not claim it Korean sword art.
enushisama 2 weeks ago
@enushisama 今因黃倡郞爲本國劍之緣起. 本國劒 is orginated from 新羅 (shiragi in Japanese). however, Korean did not success whole part of this art. Some part is revealed from Mr.Mao's book, and korean received it and mixed with what had been successing. That is the exact 本國劒 described in 武藝圖譜通志.
lsy62762 1 week ago
@enushisama First of all, according to 武藝圖譜通志 and mr.mao's book, mr.mao learned and imported korean 本國劒. Hundreds yrs later, korean re-imported mao's book and find lost part of 本國劒. it is like how Ramien became Ramen. Also, obviously, in 武藝圖譜通志 there are two text, 等韻 and 尚書. 等韻 is used as an example which indicates that Korea had made its own sword art. 尚書 is used as an example which indicates that Korean had received the lost part through mr.mao's book.
lsy62762 1 week ago
@enushisama 제독검 (提督劍) Not Chinese! 제독검 is traced back to General Yi Yu Song -A Chinese General of KOREAN Decent! His 5th descendent, Yi Won, had Korean concubine who had some Chun Keun. Chun Keun was given Yi Won's sword. Around 1746 Mu Chun, Chun Keun's descendent still had the sword and the historical facts of the sword were engraved for him by Yi Un Sang.
HDGDisnotfromkendo 4 months ago
@HDGDisnotfromkendo 무예도보통지(武藝圖譜通志):懲毖錄曰癸巳夏病臥漢城墨寺洞天將駱尙志訪余臥次因言朝鮮微弱而賊猶在境乘天兵未廻習練兵法可以守國余卽馳啓使禁軍韓士立招募七十餘人往駱公請敎駱撥帳下張六三等十人爲敎師鍊習槍劒狼筅等技云則駱是李提督票下提督劒之名出於此歟
The Chinese officer 駱尙志 advised the Korean minister柳成龍. "The Korean army is weak. But the Japanese army has not been withdrawn from Korea yet. You should make soldiers study martial arts."
He chooses ten Chinese as teachers, and began to teach sword art and others. Since he was the admiral's subordinate, it called the admiral sword.
enushisama 2 weeks ago
@HDGDisnotfromkendo but still he is just korean discendent. that does not mean his sowrd art itself is a korean one. that is obviously chinese one. As a korean I disagree. you are violating big thing.. this situation is like Israel clamins that relative theory of Eisntein is not American work, but it is their because Einstein is a jew... don't even try it is hilarious. we should admit what we must admit.
lsy62762 1 week ago
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@enushisama (cont) Paintings of Imjin War battles clearly show Koreans fighting Japanese with straight AND curved swords! These were the recruited civilian militia types that fought. These were some of the styles added to the 무예제보(武藝諸譜), later 무예신보(武藝新譜), later 무예도보통지(武藝圖譜通志)
HDGDisnotfromkendo 4 months ago
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@enushisama I am really tired" of you idiots first post on every single HDGD YouTube video quoting 무예도보통지 "Only archery was practiced bla, bla, bla" All Koreans know at the time Archery was the only official military training method, but there were tons and tons of non-military martial arts practiced in Korea. Similar to Japan had many clans specializing in certain kenjitsu or bujitsu methods that were not part of military.
HDGDisnotfromkendo 4 months ago
武藝圖譜通志 ( Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts in Korea)
The sword arts in the book.
雙手刀 (LongSword) = Japanese sword art
提督劒 (AdmiralSword) = Chinese sword art
雙劒 (DoubleSword) = Chinese sword art
本国劒/鋭刀 (KoreanSword) = The lost Chinese sword art. The textbook was discovered in Korea. However, it is the Chinese martial art in practice. Can the martial art be learned only by reading the book?
Where is the sword art of Korea which continues without breaking off from ancient times?
enushisama 4 months ago in playlist musa7008 さんのその他の動画
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일본 놈들 아주 지랄이구먼. 야 일본 놈들아! 솔직히 까놓고 네놈들이 켄도(劍道) 어쩌고 떠드는데 중국의 한서(漢書)에 이미 나오는 단어잖아. 그게 네놈들의 고유한 단어냐? 네놈들이야말로 중국의 '劍道'를 카피하고 도둑질하고 있는 주제에. 그리고 무예도보통지(武藝圖譜通志)에는 왜검(倭劍)이라 해서 네놈들 검법은 따로 소개 되거든. 무예도보통지의 본국검(本國劍)은 신라 시대부터 내려온 것으로 조선의 고유 검법이며 현존하는 가장 오래된 검법이다. 그러고 보니 명(明)의 모원의가 쓴 무비지(武備志)에는 조선세법(朝鮮勢法)도 전하는구나. 이것도 복원하고 있던데...어쨌든 어디서 감히 천박한 역사를 가지고 검도(劍道)를 세계화했다고 니들이 그 모든 것의 근원인양 까불어! 이러면 또 비겁하게 그 중국의 劍道와 의미가 다르다며 떠들겠지? 일본 놈들아 남 헐뜯기 전에 니들 주제 파악부터 해라.
89kyu 4 months ago
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89kyu 4 months ago
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oh boy...stop copying Japanese culture.you koreans don`t know the truth?
poor guys...
charly345mstl 4 months ago
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Korean martial art : STEALING other countries' cultures
hosozoku 4 months ago
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Please watch this video.
I entreat you.
"Korean swordmanship"
watch?v=uQ5zOKB3yzw
enushisama 5 months ago
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朝鮮王朝實録：The Annals of the choson Dynasty (The True Record of the Korean Dynasty)…
【June 11, 1480】矧惟國人, 不慣槍劍, 專業弓矢, 爲禦敵之備
The people were not accustomed to use of sword or spear, defended from enemies only by archery...
【October 13, 1592】上敎政院曰“我國絶無劒手”
The king said “There was no swordman in our country at all”...
【July 11, 1594】我國自古劍術不傳
There has not been descendent any swordplay from ancient time in our country...
enushisama 6 months ago
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武藝圖譜通志Muye Dobo Tongji : Comprehensive Illustrated Manual of Martial Arts in Korea .
It is an official document at a Korean Dynasty, written by The Korean King order in the 18th century.
國練兵之制三軍練于郊，衛士練于禁苑，其禁苑練兵盛自 光廟朝，然止弓矢一技而已如槍劍法技，既未之聞焉，
Archery was the only martial art that had been practiced by Korean soldiers. They have no skills of sword or spear fighting.
購得戚繼光紀效新書遣訓局郎韓嶠遍質東來將士
Therefore¬¬, Koreans began learning sword skills and others from Chinese.
enushisama 6 months ago
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Oh, This is Martial Arts for Miao Dao in Chinese Ming Dynasty.
watch?v=V1Vg4O7g9js&feature=player_embedded
enushisama 7 months ago
@DishrackDarwin
Dishrack, you are a ubiquitous pile of shit. Your knowledge of martial arts has the same quality as that of your knowledge of science- which is to say- zero.
I can't think of a single thing in which your opinion would be of value. (You probably have the same suspicion- which is why you spend so much time grandstanding- you know that you are a sack of worthless dog tripe)
ozowen 8 months ago
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Neo Nazi Japanese Nationalist are the only ones complaining about who made the curved blade. Who the hell invented the automobile and curry and blue jeans then. Stop all the FUCKING hating, you guys sound like little bitches. Japan did not invent the curved blade you morons. Stop arguing for fuck sakes.
MASTERNCS 9 months ago
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Court decision said HDGD was combination of Shim Gumdo and Ki Chun (Both Korean and unrelated to Kendo!) Someone please tell me if kendo practices any of the following forms practiced in Haidong Gumdo listed in 무예도보통지? 쌍수도 (雙手刀-Ssang Soo) 예도 (銳刀-Yedo) 제독검 (提督劍-Jedok Geum) 본국검 (本國劍-bonguk Gum) 쌍검 (雙劍-Ssang Gum) Answer is THEY DON'T Because it is Korean and Not Japanese. Can you leave us HDGD guys alone now?
pomminsu 9 months ago
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1.
Kumdo/Gumdo is the Korean pronunciation of Kendo and it was introduced into the Korean Peninsula from Japan during the period of the Japanese protectorate and annexation (1895-1945). Before that martial arts didn't exist in Korea. So it's never a traditional Korean martial art from ancient times.
It's true that Koreans began learning sword skills from Chinese and they called it 本國劍/本国剣 in the 18th century, but it didn't catch on.
/watch?v=xcc3_iBmMyM
HaedongKumdoIsaLie 9 months ago
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2.
The first time Koreans used the word "HaedongKumdo/海東剣道" was in about 1982. It's not so long ago. In short, it's a fraud that they claim HaedongKumdo is a Korean traditional martial art.
Incidentally, the parties have already pleaded guilty to the HaedongKumdo fraud in a Korean court.
해동검도재판기록 (HaedongKumdo trial record)
blog(.)daum(.)net/_blog/BlogTypeView(.)do?blogid=06zf6&articleno=9050199&admin=#ajax_history_home
HaedongKumdoIsaLie 9 months ago
3.
What Koreans are doing now is a creation based on Japanese Kendo. But because the new martial art required Koreans to make a difference from Kendo, they adopted flashy action stunts like jumping or spinning.
First, you Koreans must set out the records of HaedongKumdo before 1970s if you can.
HaedongKumdoIsaLie 9 months ago
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4.
How about videos? Is there a film until 1980 showing HaedongKumdo?
How about pictures? Is there a picture until 1980 showing HaedongKumdo?
How about historical records? Since the 17th century many Westerners stayed in the Korean Peninsula. They wrote about Korean archery but any swordplay or unarmed martial art doesn't appear in those records. Don't you find this strange?
You Koreans had better admit HaedongKumdo is a fraud and stop spreading lies immediately.
HaedongKumdoIsaLie 9 months ago
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie That's why there's the Muye Dobo Tongji of 1790, made before the introduction of Gekiken (predecessor of Kendo and Gumdo). The video here shows the techniques of that book. Before the Muye Dobo Tongji there was also the Muye Jebo and Muye Shinbo.
YunSeung 8 months ago
@YunSeung
/watch?v=xcc3_iBmMyM
/watch?v=ImWL-N582ZU
武藝圖譜通志 (1790) says "然止弓矢一技而已，如槍劍法技，既未之聞焉". It means that they have skills of archery but have no skills of sword or spear fighting. Also that calls 本國劍 a "new swordplay". In short, 本國劍 is a new swordplay established in the 18th century. 武藝圖譜通志 was transcribed from 武藝諸譜 (muye jebo) and 武藝新譜 (muye shinbo). And you can find Korean swordplay only in the books.
HaedongKumdoIsaLie 8 months ago
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie It depends on how you read it. The vast majority of the Joseon soldiers were draftees from poor farming classes, which would mean that they had lacked any sword or spear fighting skills. Archery was a basic skill for most of the citizens, and it was a past time for many noblemen of that time. in 1790, the king also abolished any martial arts to the lower classes. Yes, you can find Korean swordplay only in the books maybe a decade ago, but people are trying to use those books
YunSeung 8 months ago
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie to revive the old arts which were well documented in the MDT. 本國劍 actually roughly translates to "Their swords". If you wanted to translate it to "New Swordplay" you need to write it as "新劍". The fact is, there are documents regarding the arts and the Muye24ki group is trying to revive them. Don't be hating on them just because the Koreans finally have something they can redeem.
YunSeung 8 months ago
@YunSeung I would have to disagree on this one. 本 is translated as Bon (this or our), 國 is translated as Guk (country or nation) and 劍 is translated as Gum (sword) So "Our Nation's Sword." At the time the Nation of Shilla's Sword. Do you see how arrogant japanese are? Even the name of their country: 日本 (일본) "First Country" They think they are 1st at everything.
HDGDisnotfromkendo 8 months ago
@HDGDisnotfromkendo I was talking about the literal Chinese definition (since that is what he seemed to be going off of) and 本國劍 roughly translates to "Their Swords" in Chinese. In Korea, obviously it is read differently; 本國劍 is read as "Bongukgeom" respectively. 日本 or Nippon actually means a "Land of rising sun" when translating it by how the Japanese read the Chinese characters. Japan was called 倭国 or Waeguk, but this changed after the Japanese realized that the term Wae 倭 meant "Barbaric"
YunSeung 8 months ago
@YunSeung You are right I was think Il as in One, not Sun. Also, I always thought Wae meant foreign, not barbaric (as in Waeguk In-foreigner) Anyway, they will never refute or even admit any proof you provide them, they will just ignore it and shift the attention elsewhere. It's all they do.
HDGDisnotfromkendo 8 months ago
@YunSeung I know this is a old post but i couldnt help it...Wae does not mean barbaric but "midget,drawf" etc etc. The early Chinese dynasties called Japan Dwarf country(Wa-kou) so they later changed it to another character and word with the same sound (Wa) which meant "Harmony". The Chinese had a thing with word play, writing down foreign names with alternative characters with demeaning definitions but with the same sounds.
VietzRus 2 months ago
@YunSeung The Japanese endonym Wa 倭 "Japan" derives from the Chinese exonym Wō 倭 "Japan, Japanese", a Chinese character that had some offensive connotation, possibly "submissive, docile, obedient", "bowing; bent over", or "short person; dwarf".
VietzRus 2 months ago
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie Muye Dobo Tongji only says archery was the only official "MILITARY" organized training method. it does not say it was the only thing practiced in Korea at all. 本國劍 or Bonguk Gum, is historically traced backed to Shilla Dynasty and was included in Muye Dobo Tongji after searching Korea for it's own native martial arts to add to the original Chinese book that made up Muye Jebo, before Muye Shinbu. Can you please tell me if Japanese Kendoka or Iaidoka perform 本國劍???
HDGDisnotfromkendo 8 months ago
@HaedongKumdoIsaLie This is not true, it says that archery was the only standardized military training, not that it was the only one in Korea. They went out after Imjin wars to find more martial arts to add to the original Chinese manual and came across Bonguk 本國劍 & added it. It even says in Muye Dobo Tongji. It is well documented that Bonguk Gumbup originated in Shilla Dynasty, and not all martial techniques from the 3 kingdoms era were absorbed into Jeseon Dynasty.
HDGDisnotfromkendo 8 months ago
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@HaedongKumdoIsaLie Bon Guk Gum is not from China idiot. 본국검 本国劒 (KoreanSword) From 무예도보통지(武藝圖譜通志): It appears Wubei Zhi ( 武備志) written by Mao Yuanyi (茅元儀) acquired the book of sword combat from Chosun considering he compared Chosun sword methods with Dang Un's. It is obvious Chosun Had already developed the manual of Bon Guk Gum ( 본국검 本国劒) as they were compared to Japanese Ssangsu. Chinese Bubishi was comparing Chosun's method with Japan's! Your lies are easily proved wrong.
HDGDisnotfromkendo 3 months ago
@woody3721 what is the Japanese doing with the German car, light bulb from USA, and 25% Korean DNA?
pomminsu 9 months ago
What is the Korean doing with the armor of China and the sword of Japan?
woody3721 9 months ago in playlist アシア問題
@woody3721 Koreans had curved blades before the Imjin war and Japanese occupation. Chinese did too but no one ever say much about Chinese people stealing. That's probably because Chinese curved blades precede pretty much all Japanese swords. Like the Zhanmadao mentioned in the book of song. It's attributes were drawn out and well described and it strangely resembles basically all Japanese swords. Koreans probably benefited their sword knowledge of curved blades during the Tang invasions.
YunSeung 8 months ago
@YunSeung Koreans had single edged curved blades all the way back to Goguryo dynasty. I appreciate your research in combating these Neo nazi Japanese Nationalists. Have you ever seen Admiral Yi Sun Sin's swords forged in 1594 During the Imjin wars in Korea? These guys never address these every time I point it out.
HDGDisnotfromkendo 8 months ago
@HDGDisnotfromkendo Ha, well that's because they're not trying to be factual. Their research is limited to excerpts they find on the internet (probably some Japanese geocities website) and they read waaaay too much into it. They completely disregard the fact that all three countries (China, Japan, Korea) do not read the characters in the same way.
YunSeung 8 months ago
@HDGDisnotfromkendo They also have this ridiculous idea that Koreans steal everything. If you know about the Japanese occupation, you know that they didn't "STEAL" it, the Japanese FORCED them to learn it. It's like raping a girl and suing her because she "stole your sperm".
YunSeung 8 months ago
@HDGDisnotfromkendo Oh and lets not forget that they also think that "Kumdo" is a stolen version of "KENDO". lol. It's like they're trying to fight ignorance by preying on the ignorant people. Every Kumdo (as in Daehan Kumdo) practitioner knows that their masters were taught Gekiken a while back. Same how everyone knows that the founder of Taekwondo General Choi also practiced Karate. Do people know that Karate is actually a form of Quanfa? No one? Maybe we should say Japanese people steal shit.
YunSeung 8 months ago
@YunSeung I really pray that not all Japanese people think like these Nationalist Racists and that it is a small minority, but at last count it's like 80 of them to like 3 or 4 of us guys combating their lies and hate. So it's not looking good.
HDGDisnotfromkendo 8 months ago
@HDGDisnotfromkendo hahaha well your prayers are answered. Most Japanese people don't care about history and many of them remain ignorant of what happened during the World War II era (except the atomic bomb). Most of the people who do argue against the Korean wave spend way too much time on the computer. Plus, most of the time, the people who do seem nationalist aren't even Japanese; they are mostly white people who think they know everything. SO don't worry. They'll die out soon.
YunSeung 8 months ago
@woody3721 Also, strange you mention armor of China when it has been debated that Japanese armor is also derived from Chinese armor as well. Heck, China's not all that original either. Most of their influences have come from India, which had curved blades before the Chinese... But they also probably learned about that from the Persians. All you have to do is take a course of Anthropology and you know that arguing about originality is utter BS.
YunSeung 8 months ago
Hwarang Kumdo's masters from 5 º Dan have the right to were the custom traditional of the elite's warriors Hwarang.
evangelinex1 11 months ago
Why does he swing a samurai sword with wearing Monglian armour? In addition, his style maybe Chinese.
danceontightrope 1 year ago
@danceontightrope I've seen this exact same comment across multiple weapon videos but with different names. Stop trolling/spamming.
Inkoseh 1 year ago
Comment removed
jmcpreto 1 year ago
Why does he use samurai sword? Korean traditional swords are straight and double-edged swords. Please stop using samurai swords. Due to a part of Koreans like you, all koreans are fooled by Japanese.
centraltheorem2076 1 year ago
If you know Japanese sward techniques and all their weapons have all have been evolved from koreans, you should feel a bit more reserved.
ihahahayou 11 months ago
@ihahahayou True as it Wol Do(Curved sword/Moon sword) influenced the making of Japanese curved swords, however also keep in mind the Wol Do itself was influenced by the Chinese Sword (I forgot its name,,,)..I dunno where the chinese got their swords from..maybe from India? or they just might have made it themselves :)
kim4738 11 months ago
@kim4738 You may be right but isn't that all just a wild guess? If koreans don't know where it comes from they would all just say it's from china.
ihahahayou 11 months ago
@ihahahayou Hahaha yes, i guess that might be true :), but we say that because China had that much of a influence in Korea, because about weaponry at least the the 1600 Japan had almost no influence on Korea, so the only place would be China,(though trades between India was recorded),/ This is for the other people- the armor was influenced by the Mongolians(aka China) when they have invaded korea, after such armor above was adopted.
kim4738 11 months ago
@kim4738 Every country has had influence on all the country. Korea had influence on some of the farming as well. I think the major thing china had influence was weaponry using gun powder which was used to defeat the war with Japan with the fraction of their number. What is new to me is the armory you said that was adapted from Mongolians. Mongolians are not also known as china. They have defeated china with the weaponry that china were using. and what armor are you referring to?
ihahahayou 11 months ago
a stupid jap asshole's must Remembering the moratorium
Sucker1313 1 year ago
@Sucker1313
kumudo copied kendo in 1980's.
Korea insists that kumudo is the origin of kendo to the world.
Yu Songron which was a Korean bureaucrat 400 years ago writes that the Korean officer does not do the training of martial arts at all.
kumudo is Korea reading of "剣道 -kendo".
musa is Korea reading of "武者 -musya".
There are not kumudo and musa for Korean words until the 19th century.
The clothes of this video are not Korea.
It is Mongolia or China.
taihuu25go 1 year ago
@taihuu25go Korean Kingdoms existed and expanded into asia and into Island Japan even before existence of Japan. Need to read history. All sword in Japan as origin in Korean, even the Japan King/Emperor is of Korean bloodline. Also Silla Korean Kingdom created Jin Dynasty which conquered china in 12th and 16th century. People of Jin Dynasty is called Jin-Na or world knows as Chin-Na/China. Get the history right.
klee4 1 year ago
@klee4
The Korean study the history.
It is the race where Kudara person is different from a current Korean.
Wuning King is the person whom Kudara held out as a hostage to Japan.
A wife of the Wuning King is a Japanese.
Their daughter became the mistress of the cousin of the Japanese Emperor.
A daughter after the sixth generation bore the Emperor Kanmu from the daughter.
The King of Kudara becomes a Japanese in the Korean logic.
taihuu25go 1 year ago
It is China in the origin of Korea in the ancient times and a Japanese straight sword.
However, the Japanese sword is a Japanese original.
In Korea, there is only the history influenced by the other countries.
And the Korean ignores the frequent movement of a race on the continent.
"Korea the ancient times folk state by the Korean"
The Korean school shows so a child it.
taihuu25go 1 year ago
And only one line is mentioned with the Korean textbook about "the Korean War" that many soldiers died of the United Nations forces.
By the investigation about "the Korean War" by the Korean newspaper, Korean 65% seem to think "the Korean War to be war with Japan and Korea".
taihuu25go 1 year ago
@taihuu25go Today Japanese is different from Korea today. Even before the Kudara, the people of Korea Kingdom and Baekjae emperor move to Japan and establish new Kingdoms. Emperor of Japan as already testified that his bloodline is from Baekjae as recent as year 2005. This is no big deal as many Koreans colonized the island called Japan which did not have huge pupulation during that time. People just moved, that is all... It was not like Koreans moving to Japan and pushed everyone out.
klee4 1 year ago
Study the history.
I make the Korean textbook the Korea government thinks about the nation, and to control it.
The ancient Korean is different from a current Korean.
In addition, there is not the trace that such people prepared the kingdom into in Japan.
Even if there are the historical materials that ancient Japan ruled the southern part of the Korean Peninsura, there are not the historical materials that a modern Korean ruled over Japan.
taihuu25go 1 year ago
@taihuu25go Actually,there are many South Korean Baekjae artifacts in Japan, especially LOYAL Castles and architectures.When Baekjae collapsed, Korean King and his follower went to their territory colony of island Japan without any resistance from local Japanese. NOW having said that, the bloodlines of Baekjae which currently live in Japan can say they are Baekjae people of Korean Southern Kingdom where they lived in the past. If you accept Baekjae as your bloodline, then your argument stand.
klee4 1 year ago
Show historical materials to prove it.
If it is impossible, you are same as a Korean Kumudo group insisting that "the origin of Kendo is kumudo".
"武芸譜通誌" is a thing of the 18th century.
This book is Chinese translation of "武備誌".
"武備誌" is the book which China translated a text of "kageryukenpo" which Japanese pirates possessed into.
taihuu25go 1 year ago
Korea purchased it from China.
The contents of the book were not able to understand Korea. They made Chinese Taketo who came to Korea a crossfire.
However, the Chinese adhered to their traditional Kenjutu. Therefore, there was not the person that they could explain kenjutu that the book said it.
taihuu25go 1 year ago
@taihuu25go You have to be more specific on which time era of China as china was ruled by many. As stated in previouse reply, Jin dynasty of Korea conquered china in 12th century and 16th century and formed Qing/Chung Dynasty, during this time Jin Dynasty influence was the new china, and chinese assimulated into Jin Dynasty culture(and sword warfare) and rule of law. Jin Dynasty ruled china for around 500years which combines both invasion in 12th and 16th century.
klee4 1 year ago
@taihuu25go First, you need to understand that CHINA was formed by Jin Dynasty which was formed by Silla Royal "Golden Kim" Family of Korean Kingdom. China's Emperor's family surname means "Love of Silla". The Qing or Chung Dynasty which collpased in 19th century before communist take over, states Qing Dynasty was of Jin Dynasty created by Silla Royal Kim family of Korea. You will need to provide evidence to disclaim including historical evidence.But common sense provides Japan was learning.
klee4 1 year ago
sorry, i mean no disrespect, but it looks like a bit silly.
animejoao 1 year ago
A great liar
As for the taekwondo and the description of kumudo, there is a flower to an authority of 武芸通誌.
watch?v=hG6tqGGZW8Y
The contents which are written to the authority of 武芸通誌.
The Korean martial arts only as for the bow and the spear.
watch?v=_Xz_6MUYHcM
watch?v=wVWECqMm0-4&feature=related
taihuu25go 1 year ago
Korean katana is casting entirely.
After imjinwar, Korea copied Japanese katana.
However, it is the casting product that imitated only the form of Nihonto.
I make "the traditional Korea sword" sold in Korea from the leaf spring of the truck now.
The Japanese armed forces devised this at the time of WW2 to supply many soldiers.
taihuu25go 1 year ago
musa is Korea reading of Japanese "武者-Musha ".
watch?v=94umHT7aBu4
taihuu25go 1 year ago
@taihuu25go
hey you 2ch shit.
if you belive that real. You should discuss the historian
LOL.
Sucker1313 1 year ago
korean?hahahaha
that`s Japanese sword.hahaha
bosswnsket 1 year ago
@bosswnsket Can you please name the manual and author of Japan's oldest sword making process? ; )
blueprophet9 1 year ago
@bosswnsket Nope, that's korean martial art, kendo/kenjutsu it's japanese.
anjoshido 1 year ago
stupid stupid Koreans...
KakuAndy 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@KakuAndy Can you please name the manual and author of Japan's oldest sword process?
blueprophet9 1 year ago
muye dobo tongji
hitokiri123 1 year ago
korean of the time period they are depciting did not practice martial arts except archery. this is just a modern creation to show "how great " u guys are.
kaindrg 1 year ago
@kaindrg
I assume that you received your information from the the king's forward section of the book Muyedobotongji. If you read further, you would have learned that several attempts were made by pre-occupation Korea to revitalize the military & what you see in this clip is a demonstration of their efforts. Although most of the information in the book was influenced by Chinese & some Japanese arts, the book also discusses older Korean systems such as bonguk gumbup, choson sebup & subak.
tomurso 1 year ago
You are correct that this clip is "modern" since this system's practice became virtually extinct. This is most likely due to both the Japanese occupation & old Korea's neo-Confucian mind set. Since some Koreans do agree that Tae Kwon Do, Kumdo & Yudo are just Korean versions of Japanese arts, they are trying to revitalize pre-occupation martial systems. Rather than chastise these groups, perhaps you should be glad that there are attempts to bring back historically legitimate arts.
tomurso 1 year ago
@tomurso question are the zen buddhist style older or modern
kaindrg 1 year ago
"Not all curved swords used in East Asia are Japanese, nor can it be said that all styles of curved swords found in East Asia are the result of Japanese influence. The curved sword originated in the Won Dynasty rather than in Japan. Also, curved Mongolian swords were used even earlier, before being adopted by Japan. Going further back, a curved bronze sword was excavated at the Byongmayonggang, the tomb of the Emperor of Chin." - History of Steel in Eastern Asia
skyungjae 2 years ago
You are a genius
chosonbuddy 1 year ago
this is japanese art copied by korean!
jiiNniii 2 years ago
nop, jap copied.
consoleman09 2 years ago
korean claim everything theirs but only korean wrestling(ssirum),archery,taekyun r urs.all other stuff r copied from japan or china!
jiiNniii 2 years ago
and where did you heard that? japenis? Chinazi? LoL, study the true history, everything Japan have its stolen from Korea. Even geisha is stolen culture. Katana? another stolen sword from Korea. Korean history is lot older than Japan, China? they are from far south, they were under Manchu rule for last 300 years.
consoleman09 2 years ago
katana is definitely japanese! geisha is not gisaeng! china was under manzu rule which is true but korea was under everybodys rule(han chinese,manzu,mongol,japan)
jiiNniii 2 years ago
lol, another brain washed poofta. Japan was under Korean colonies for centuries when Korea was under Japan for only 37 years. Manchu/Mongol destroyed Chinese states, when they allowed Korea to remain independent. Katana is Not Japanese origin, there was no horse in Japan until Koreans brought them up too. japanese writing is also invented by Koreans.
consoleman09 2 years ago
japan was never conquered by korea! actually japan conquered n dominated during early 20th century.china destroyed ancient chosen n dominated korea for a long time.u daont have to say mongol conquered china bcz its mongol not korea
jiiNniii 2 years ago
kana was originated from chinese writing system not from korea.hangul was made during chosen dynasty but kana was used already for several hundred yrs at that time.
jiiNniii 2 years ago
lol, another bakka. Look Korea used Hanja that's same as kanji you fool. Kana was changed during 17th century, again this show you don't have knowledge in Japanese language. Hangul was invented to replace Hanja in 14th century, 3 century ahead of new kana system. Both kanji/Kana was originated from Chinese hanzi. Learn the history you bakka
consoleman09 2 years ago
Yes I agree.
chosonbuddy 1 year ago
@consoleman09
Really, centuries? Why is it then that genetic mapping shows that korea and japan are vastly different? Korea is extremely similar to the Chinese genetically and it's been noticed that portions of it's population (usually centred around large cities) have half Japanese blood. Suspiciously enough it's the elder generation (i.e. the pleasure women for japanese troops).
What you are is a brainwashed Korean who can't bring himself to be proud of his REAL heritage.
ihaterobbie123 1 year ago
Japanese writing is invented by Koreans???
chosonbuddy 1 year ago
Not really.
chosonbuddy 1 year ago
japan claim everything theirs but only sumo, kendo r urs. other stuff r copied from korea or china! honestly, the line between korean/japanese/chinese culture is very, very thin sometimes. all 3 cultures borrowed from each other.
myth8745 1 year ago
Not really.
chosonbuddy 1 year ago
@myth8745 im chinese i can tell u ancient korea was a weak country they only adopted chinese culture its only recently korean nationalist teach the korean yourh that we(china/korea) taught japan stuff but before the japan was already quite civilized and wooping koreas ass. Its writen in ur own historical records korea could have bee beetter if they Had more rulers like Sejong but because of corrupt bureacrats = shanty civilization.
kaindrg 1 year ago
you are a retard.
aznmonkeydiscoman 2 years ago
it shud be noted that the so called iron clad korean troops "철기병" were not mainly used against the Japanese but against the Chinese mostly. It was VERY expensive to armor a soldier in STEEL. Steel back then was hard to make and the creation of steel swords were an art as well as armor. But neither side employed such heavy cavalry since both sides preferred infantry with heavy to light swords and spears.
Hope I helped, as for attire I think they all look similar in some way, Chinese too
KyoJin000 2 years ago
These draw backs and goods can be demonstrated in the Japanese invasion. Samurais moved in close packs back to back and could devastate enemy with medium Armour powerful strikes. However when faced against light Korean infantry who practiced Ssangumbub the samurais were out matched for these soldiers utilized kicking and hand combat much more and moved in and out quickly and dispatched samurais with thrusts. This was off course off set by reinforcement of different troops on both sides.
KyoJin000 2 years ago
thus much of the equipment are shared and techniques are similar. But it shud be noted that both cultures are similar in the art of swords only to differ in sowrd making. Japanese swords steel folding was very different from that of the korean swords and each has its goods and draw backs.
For one Japanese swords tended to be heavier and a little bit longer. Thus the cutting capability was higher, where the Korea sword was a tad shorter and lighter meant to thrust and slash.
KyoJin000 2 years ago
I read these and and I was wondering if I could ass some clarity.
Haidong gumdo is not that old by it self, it was established newly in the 50's. It wasn't newly developed but renamed. Ssansudo and other musul bub (법) were the original korean sword practice. Ssansudo and Ssangumbub's roots are way before japanese kendo, and kenjutsu arts.
Japanese art of kendo is very similar to gumdo since kendo is a older then gumdo in respect to offical naming.
KyoJin000 2 years ago
Comment removed
KyoJin000 2 years ago
Most Japanese MA are born and standardized during 19th century. Korean MA standardized 17th century. Chinese did at least thousand year earlier with Kungfu, but did not standardized until recently.
consoleman09 2 years ago
@sonsoleman09
In Japan, we have Samurai armers and history proofs from more than 1000yrs ago. So, Korea started 17th century by copying Japan, maybe..who knows..there aren't any proofs in Korea.
tokyocityrat 2 years ago
lol, proof what more do you want, Korea have full of archeological evidence that Koreans started iron smiting before japanese. Yoyr samurai didn't have metallic armor before 17th century. 1000 yrs ago? oh man you're seriously brain washed by Hollywood movies
consoleman09 2 years ago
@consoleman09
Your are wrong on Samurai armer and Katana are started way before 17c. It is commonly known that Kanata history is more than 1000yrs. Are you reading Korean history book...sorry these books are full of anti Japan stuff and telling you wrong history...everyone knows that. Be careful...friendly advise.
tokyocityrat 2 years ago
Let me get this straight with you, 1st there is no mention of Japanese stuff from old Korean books. Other than 16th century Imjin war records. Your glorious samurai over ran japan & killed thousands of Japanese commoners in the name of war. all I know, Hollywood made samurai as honorable warrior who stands for protecting his people, another bullshit.
consoleman09 2 years ago
Calm down man; tokyocityrat just learned popular culture. Japan is still our kin.
Last Samurai really was funny to watch though, I laughed through out the whole thing.
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
You're wrong again here. Korean swords were highly prized by ancient samurai; even though the oldest Katana is found in Japan, older, larger predecessors to the Katana are found in Korea. Who cares though?
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
oldest katana is only 17th century, armor from 7th century looking identical to Korean 4~6th century. It was all iron, then suddenly 16th century samurai came to Korea with bunch of bamboo armors. how do you explain this? is this mean Japan went backward?
consoleman09 2 years ago
@consoleman09
The oldest katana is only 17th century?? ha ha ha ha..do you study first. Samurai started more than 1000yrs ago when Japan have Kamakura era, and at that time, they had Katana. Are you 10yrs old and reading picture book? In 16th century when Japan went Korea, Japan brought guns already. Seriously, do some readings before posting comments.
tokyocityrat 2 years ago
my evidence is right from Jpn source, 1000 yrs old katana is not exist anymore my little friend. Korea too have 1500 years old iron sword too but in badly in shape. Japan imported Portuguese arquebuses & Koreans had their rocket cannons no Japanis able to make. Read on Imjin war
consoleman09 2 years ago
@consoleman09
You said Japan start to make Katana in 17c....and now said 1000yr katana is not exsit anymore....which one you are following? In term of sword, they found more than 2000 yrs old bronz one just recently in Japan. And you are right about guns. Japan first study from Protuguese. But in 17c, they start produce by themselves....at that time, Japan holds more guns than Europe. All metal technolgies are already developed that time. Do you think Katana produced same time as guns?
tokyocityrat 2 years ago
lol, you obviously have bad English skill. Oldest surviving katana is from 17th century and it's in bad shape. Previously, katana originated in the Muromachi period from 14~16th century you fool. Learn Japanis history first before you reply. These shinny steel katana is all 19-20th century made.
consoleman09 2 years ago
@consoleman09
I am a Japanese and not native English speaker...is there anything wrong with it?
Regarding Katana history, you better come to Japan and visit national musium and see Koto(means old Katana). You will see it. I am Japanese and know more than you about Katana. And "Japanis" isn't right "Japanese" is right spelling. Do not believe history book of Japan wrote by non Japanese. Ass hole!
tokyocityrat 2 years ago
@tokyocityrat
Western sources are not always reliable. You have to keep in mind that most of the books you read are books written at any time when Japan rose more quickly in the Western imagination.
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
@consoleman09
As a Korean myself, I need you to stop right there. You said katana did not exist until 17th century and then you go on and say that they originated in 14th~16th century...? Dude, make up your mind!
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
Wrong. Korea was more powerful with a greater influence than Japan until the mid 1800's. The proofs are in the Samgukyusa, the Royal historical files, etc., which are older.
It doesn't really matter. Japan is our closest kin, and our shared cultural values is what matters, not who did what first. The US went to the moon, is Japan copying? Baloney.
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
@consoleman09
Korean martial arts, except for a few artworks and records such as bonguk-geopbup, chosun saebeop, ssireum, and taekkyun, extincted after the Japanese occupation. Despite the Korean govt's propaganda about the history of TKD, the history of TKD is only less than 70 years ago. The Korean Karate practitioners returned to their motherland after the war and performed Karate in front of president Rhee. Rhee took favor of the MA, and thus, that's how TKD was created!
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
isnt that bonkuk gumbup
jung567 2 years ago
No, just another many types of gumsool
consoleman09 2 years ago
I was trained in Kumdo but pretty much,we learned evrything the same as
kendo,except,I notice some of the older guys doing these musa forms.
very kool to see in person.
Shinkatana420 2 years ago
These sword cutting postures are clearly NOT
Japanese Ken jutsu style. Miao, Hmong, Tibetan,
and Thai all have similar sword cutting techniques.
notyourmind 2 years ago
yes,Cinese Style.
prozokukoku 2 years ago 2
Hmong's dont have any sword technique and if they did it was more than likely it was borrowed from the Chinese or the Thai's.
TeaBagJizzer 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
All of Korean martial arts are sucks!
these are imitation of japanese martial arts.
kumdo=kendo
Hapkido=aikido
Taekwondo=karate
Do not believe the Korean.
ＴＨＥＹ ＡＲＥ ＴＨＩＥＶＥＳ！
MrKazukiu 2 years ago 10
Karate isn't even Japanese. It was developed in Okinawa when the Ryukyu Islands were under CHINESE rule.
Jujitsu and sumo came from Chin Na and Shuai Jiao. The naginata and the nagamaki were inspired by Chinese kwan daos and pu daos. The katana came from the miao dao.
So the next time you point to the Koreans, remember you have three fingers pointing back at you.
tampasifu 2 years ago
Let's also talk about the things the Japanese stole from the Koreans in the first half of the 20th Century.
They took a lot of Korean lives. They kidnapped Korean women and turned them into "comfort women" for Japanese soldiers. They kidnapped Korean men and inducted them into the Japanese armed forces, forcing them to fight for them in World War II.
I guess the Koreans weren't the only thieves in Asia.
tampasifu 2 years ago
To confirm Tampasifu's comment
my grandfather was one of such people who were forced to fight in a Japanese destroyer.
And in relation to Kumdo
The original sport of Kumdo/Kendo came from Korea, however the robes, armor and equipment used today has been developed by the Japanese. Though today's sport of Kumdo/Kendo is heavily influenced by Japan, the very roots of the sport has come from Korea.
Kumdo0770 2 years ago
I agree. I study Japanese Martial arts but there is no denying the crimes Japan committed on her neighbors. Adding insult to injury many Japanese refuse to acknowledge the fascist expansion their country wrought brought much suffering.
Jujutsuka4LIfe 2 years ago
you don't know anyting about korean.
long ago during three kingdom age, one of three kingdoms "Baekje" taught many things to japan. how make weapens and grow rice. Korean have two kinds of martial arts one is Taekkyon and other one is Taekwondo. The original martial art is Taekkyon. If you don't things about korea completely don't say anything because you're just racist and ignorant!
khazaduma 2 years ago
WTF R U SAYING!!!!!
koreangirl542 2 years ago
STFU, Japs = Invaders
cjyalex35 2 years ago
@MrKazukiu
The Kumdo you may be referring to is Daehan Kumdo. Korean people, except for a few anti-Japanese ones, admit that it is a Japanese martial art. However, the one in this video is Musa Kumdo. I'm not quite sure if this sword art actually existed, but Daehan Kumdo (Japanese Kendo) and Musa Kumdo are two different martial arts.
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
However, I have to admit that there are a lot of fake martial arts these days, such as Haidong Kumdo, Koryo Kumdo, Hangook Kumdo, Chunha Kumdo, etc.
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
errr, WHAT? Kumdo and Kendo are the same thing, and no, it's not specifically a Japanese thing, like sushi, cherry blossoms, or the East Sea...the Japanese made variations which are popular in their own right, but to claim ownership of shared cultural things is plainly wrong.
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
Comment removed
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@AsanMaeng
no, kendo and kumdo "means" the same thing, but "daehan" kumdo is specifically a japanese martial art
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
yes, it's like sushi, except in a broader perspective. kimbap is considered a korean sushi, while california roll is considered a japanese sushi. the same way applies for kumdo/kendo. this so-called daehan kumdo is a japanese martial art, while bonguk keombeop and chosun saebeop are basically two of the few surviving korean sword arts.
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
I think you're confused about origin of sword art. It's simply cultural, and shared between Korea and Japan. Whether you think any variation is one or the other, all them share styles and practices of both countries.
Even though Japan gets more of the credit, just chill. Korea will still get it's time to shine someday.
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
@Asan
China, Korea, and Japan share a similar, yet very distinguishably different culture. Although Korea adopted its sword culture from China and Japan from Korea's kingdom, Paekche, the difference in the each culture/perspective developed each sword art differently. In Chinese and Korean sword arts, the names of the techniques were based on animals. They often applied kicks, flips and turns in their techniques. (e.g. 2 turns and then stab would be called something like white tiger stab.)
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
LOL. Why would you think that Japan based their sword culture from Baekche? Totally not the case. They came from Baeche, but the entire sword culture isn't based from it.
Korea only adopted specific things from China, for infantry and the like; Korea had much more specialized sword culture, which was probably why they could withstand against China's huge armies during most of history.
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
Well, some Japanese haters I met when I was doing Kendo in Korea told me that's the reason why Daehan Kumdo is a Korean martial art.
I think it was much more than a sword culture that made Korea able to withstand the Chinese armies. Plus, China had a huge population; they never bothered to produce a quality soldier.
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
@AsanMaeng
However, in Japan, their names of the techniques were simple and straightforward. If they were aiming for the face, it's a face strike. If they were aiming for the body, it's a body strike. And like Kendo (Daehan Kumdo), it's overcoming the enemy in a single strike. The Kendo we see today (with bogu/hogu, "hakama," and "gi") was developed in Japan since the Edo Period, and it wasn't until the Japanese presence in the 1800's Kendo was introduced to Korea..
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
Korea DID have names for techniques coordinating with body parts, EVERYONE did. The animal techniques you're talking about are fighting poses and combination attacks that mimicked animals. Japan did have poses that were named after animals also, but have that more in Karate and other hand combat arts.
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
Okay then, give me examples of Korean techniques that are not named after the animals. Dude, I'm talking about the development of "Kendo" in Japan "during" the Edo Period. Sorry for not being specific there.
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
You're right, according to one of the founders of the International Kendo Federation, Kendo and Kumdo is the same thing. We just have different perspectives on where Kendo comes from.
Daehan Kumdo? It's just 1v1 dueling, not Japanese, Korean or whatever. Haidong Kumdo is more combat strategy.
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
Like I mentioned before, Daehan Kumdo is a Japanese martial art, even people in Korea admit that. (It's only a small percentage of the anti-Japanese ones that make a big issue out of it.) Also, the younger Korean generations are more willing to admit that it is a Japanese martial art.
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
LOL. Kumdo and Kendo are shared man; I can't stress that enough and who in Korea says it's Japanese? Perhaps the international uniform and names for things are, but like I said, different perspective on where Kumdo/Kendo started.
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
People in Korea and Koreans in the US, of course. They admit Kendo is Japanese. Like some of the people I know, I first started Kendo in a "Kumdo" dojang. Believe me, I thought Kumdo was Korean martial art, too. But after traveling and doing Kendo in South Korea, I found that only a small percentage of people do not admit it's a Japanese martial art. This is their claim: "Japan modernized Kendo, but the history of Kendo came from Paekche's sword culture."
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
I think you're a bit ill-informed; Haidong Kumdo is not recognized by the Korean government as a "real" martial art. As you know already, it's made by a single man (90% through his imagination) named Nam Han-il. It's funny, because these Haidong Kumdo people degrade Daehan Kumdo just for the fact that it's a Japanese martial art. Well, but that's how they do business...
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
LOL...totally wrong there. Governments don't recognize sports; Sports Associations do. Haidong Kumdo is the combination of a bunch of different localized country sword arts. It's just called Haidong Kumdo when Nam Han-il and a few other guys combined the associations in the 1980's.
You're trying to pass yourself off as an expert; STOP doing that, you're just expressing an opinion and misrepresenting Korean people
AsanMaeng 2 years ago
My bad, I was on fire... Didn't meant to say Korean government. But whatever... That's not important. People don't recognize Haidong Kumdo as a sport. I don't know whose side of the argument to believe: Haidong Kumdo people say Daehan Kumdo is Japanese martial art, and Daehan Kumdo people say Haidong Kumdo is fake.
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
LOL. Me, trying to be an expert? Sorry bro, like you said, I'm just stating my opinion, and I don't think you're any different. You haven't given me any facts, either--just your opinion. Considering myself a proud Korean, I don't think I'm being more bias toward Japan. In fact, I'm trying hard not to be bias at all..
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago
You know, I used to go around and say Kumdo was Korean too. But my trip to Korea completely changed my perspective. I've noticed mostly Kumdo dojang in the US teaches Kumdo as a Korean martial art.
ieatdogssowhat 2 years ago