Frankl: How LSD substitutes real life experience

[sartanko]

Why is this movie snowing maaaaaaaaaaaaan?!

[dirosaga]

POOR RATS-- i think they know now, to never piss of humans with a plague AGAIN.

[Natasmai56667]

@dirosaga it wasnt the rats. it was the fleas that were chillin on the rats

[popndrop15]

lsd has never changed an objective meaning of mine, the subjective "meanings i have gotten from them only inspire me to build upon my objectives in my own "real" life

[ytdsgdjgfueyxn537]

I don't advocate the use of LSD. But as much as I respect Dr. Frankl, he's obviously not taken LSD and confuses it with alcohol (his use of the word 'intoxication') and the pleasure center of the brain. Like other drugs, LSD does not necessarily act on act the same center(s?) of the brain. We know very little about the brain. Anyone who has taken LSD (except in excessive amounts) knows that it is not 'intoxication.' Every drug affects the brain differently. Again, I do not advocate drug use.

[Soulflytribe04]

@ytdsgdjgfueyxn537 LSD depletes people's potential in a few years. At the beginning is wonderful, but wait and talk to this person 2 years laters. He will be stupid as Hell.

[ytdsgdjgfueyxn537]

@Soulflytribe04 Of course what you say is true. As I said several times, I do not advocate people taking LSD. Yet, when I was young - 40 years ago - and took it with my brother and friends many times, I reflect on the experience. Even Steve Jobs said he did not regret his own experience. Again, I do NOT advocate kids taking drugs. They should have loving parents encouraging them to love books. That is the best 'drug' by far.

[pumitaproductions]

@Soulflytribe04 lollll... the nicest, most compassionate down to earth people i know were hippies back in the day. i dont know how acid can u make u stupid

[Soulflytribe04]

@pumitaproductions Kills neurons.

[pumitaproductions]

@Soulflytribe04 google what damage it does to your brain... i think you'd be surprised

[jordaniothefourth]

I believe the use of LSD and psychedelics in general enhances the cravings for discovery and learning in the "real world."

Nothing has made me want to learn more, to feel more, and to experience more.

After taking LSD I now study mathematics, music and philosophy much more vigorously than before.

Perhaps he is confusing psychedelics with drugs that provide unwavering subjective pleasure, such as heroin or alcohol.

[ytdsgdjgfueyxn537]

@jordaniothefourth Your point is well taken. Your comment reminds me of the early scientific experiments done on the drug before it was made illegal. I even wonder if the good Dr. Frankl was familiar with these experiments. See erowid.org/

[DannyWrigley]

Wow.

[alliant]

What the hell is NOT a "feeling" of meaningfulness? As if meaning outside of an LSD experience was not "felt". It's ridiculous.

[Soulflytribe04]

@alliant Your answer is at 2:58

[winstono75]

Did he ever experience LSD himself? He probably had legal opportunities, being a psychologist in those times. He sounds like he hasn't experienced it. Anyway LSD should make you hunger for objective reality with a subjective perspective, which would provide an infinitely higher motivation than just grappling with physical reality as the end and means.

[Dimy761]

What is about a bad LSD trip?!

LSD just turns your personality inside out so you can see the other side of yourself. It could be both pleasent and horrible depending what is hidden inside you.

[MrAusty]

@Dimy761 even the horrible experiences are meaningful. Every time it feels like its turning intoa bad trip I embrace what comes and learn valuable things from it every single time.

[tubehstnr]

Perhaps the distinction between subjective and objective meanings is less important in cultures where psychedelics are incorporated into ritual use; psychedelic experiences can be incorporated into objective meanings

[Portubed]

"What is transitory is only the potentialities but once we have actualized them, we have actualized them forever, we have rescued them into an eternal reality, as it were".

Meaning, your potential is indeed quite optional and up to you, but once you decide to act upon it, you make it real and decisively change the real world, your life and everyone elses, in a way that would not take place if you had remained in your subjective, self-induced isolation. This is amazing!

[diamail911]

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[stickygooey]

no it just means it was easier to push a button than to fuck or take the time chewing

[tripicch]

Logoterapia de Viktor Frankl, a única abordagem verdadeiramente integral do Homem eternamente contemporânea.

Adalberto Tripicchio - São Paulo - Brasil

[ThreeShampooBottles]

He has little grounds on which a distinction between subjective and objective (realities) can be made. A human is easily capable of believing that his dreams actually occurred before he can recall that he was sleeping. The barrier between actual and conjured is entirely too faint for this man to readily believe he's solved a problem with a fallible conjecture.

[Portubed]

@ThreeShampooBottles You fantasize too much, it is fairly obvious to say that "actualizing your potential" is related with adequate action in the world, as he gave in the example, having actual food or entering relationship with someone.

These are much harder to fake than dreams, which are a quite specific state of mind. The way you speak is nonsense and a cause for suffering to real mental delusions, because if everyone thought the way you do then noone would feel that lunatics need help.

[TheUnion5]

@Portubed

*bitchslap*

[ThreeShampooBottles]

@Portubed

Adequate action. Adequate satisfaction.

[TheUnion5]

Why would I increase potensial by climbing up a mountain and write history into eternity when I can take a psychedelic and see everything that has ever and is about to happen - and feel it.

[jpahmad]

So you're saying that you can see into the future?

[Portubed]

@TheUnion5 No, you cannot achieve such through a psychadelic drug. What is actually induced in the brain is the chemical excitation and confusion. When you climb a mountain and nurture your child as a parent, you climb a mountain and nurture your child as a parent. That's why.

[TheUnion5]

@Portubed

How about a little bit of both. It's pretty clear, to my mind, that you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. But one might of course take the role of a confused portrayed pseudo intellectual and pretend one is perfectly in the know about the nature of reality - but i wont.

[Portubed]

@TheUnion5 Well if you can't even realize *you* just did it, I could technically draw a conclusion about most people finding this video clip are LSD-curious and relatively supportive of those substances. Muppet.

[TheUnion5]

@Portubed

Have you ever tried LSD?

[Portubed]

@TheUnion5 I'm a psychology major and have delved quite deeply into human reality, in a way - I'm at least a seeker of depth and truth. Had other intense experiences but never bothered with drugs, perhaps because of that, but I understand the existential struggles that come with those who "need" or otherwise "play around" with them. I treasure life. Stay safe.

[TheUnion5]

@Portubed

You're a pussy major, is what you are. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and you should stop - right now. Psychedelics are not for everyone, it's for people interesting in exploring their mind, and other, oftenly deeper states of conciousness. Until you've had one or more of these experiences, you shouldn't talk about it as if you had a clue, because you really don't.

[TheUnion5]

@Portubed

and for the record, let's make it absolutely clear; I do not have a problem with people staying clean of drugs, or even pscyhededelics - I respect that, and I hope everyone will have the life of their dreams. Psychedelics to me, is solely about exploring territories and experiences others -might- not yet have encountered, and maybe even bring back a new idea from the trip that could benefit human kind.

[TheUnion5]

@Portubed

I also believe plants with psychedelic compounds to be exceptional tools that will help us as a species to better understand the reality, this thing we're part of. Therefor, exploring souls willing to take upon them the title of a psychonaut, and explore these realms, should be respected for this, just as someone traveling to space should be honored as there is always a certain risk involved.

[TheUnion5]

@Portubed

The fact that you've choen to not experience any of it, but instead focus on what you believe to be important in your life, I respect. But to shun away psychedelics as a major in psychology, that's foolishness. Just look at Iboga / Ibogaine and how this is helping heroin addicts with their addiction, therapists who have taken it (and can therefor utter an opinion about it) say a trip like this (lasting 2-3 days) is equal to 10 or even 20 years of therapy.

[Portubed]

@TheUnion5 Ok, my reply to you is that you're too defensive and speak out of your ass, if I'm supposed to use your jargon. Replacement therapies for drug *addicts* isn't really convincing don't you think? Must've been pretty bad therapy if 20 years don't help enough, which sadly is often the case - I've known plenty of crappy therapists.The rest of what you said was interesting, thanks.

[TheUnion5]

@Portubed

I'm simply giving you my personal opinion around your statements.

[Portubed]

@TheUnion5 I did use to play Psychonauts and listen to quite a bit of uplifting trance, so I should be prepared! Well just kidding. I was trying to message you but it's not possible, even though I'm not keen on discussing things over YT comments I'd like to hear more about your experiences, what they provide you with exactly and how they are justified.

[TheUnion5]

@Portubed

My experiences with psychedelics are personal, I certainly wouldn't share them with you. There are people who would, though. If you simply surfed around on Erowid looking on their testimonials. Therapy that actually works, for veteran heroin addicts, is an exceptional discovery, and I urge you as a psychology major, respectively, to look into that particular area.

[TheUnion5]

@TheUnion5

You can even search for "Ibogaine testimonials" or "Iboga" on Youtube and learn something new. Look at the theraputic history of LSD under controlled circumenstances before it was banned. Look at the theraputic benefits of Ayahuasca. And that's just the theraputic benefits. Look into Aldous Huxley's, Terence McKenna's, and other writers opinions about these substances. This is not speed or crack cocaine we're talking about, it has really nothing to do with "drugs".

[K2nsl3r]

Interesting hypothesis, but clearly hopelessly out of date with current research, and moreover proven invalid by Frankl's simple inability to differentiate between the different effects and modi operandi of different drugs on the human body, brain and perception. Spoken from a safe distance, without much of a factual basis. Still, I don't fault him for what was, and is, a common perception. Nonetheless, mice and electrodes don't make for a convincing case study of hallucinogenic mental states.

[Skatetodeath1234]

ya those feelings are very important.

[ang12341234]

Just being subjective

[ang12341234]

Why is it only someone in a state of intoxication of LSD can watch these documentaries and closely listen to the beliefs of the author. It is a great documentary and very good hypothesis

[clargdorp]

What documentary do you mean?

[opticalvibes]

Your, damm right" I cant believe what some of the shit he's sayin...I never ever hear that kind of shit today....It's different ...That dude",I hate to 'admit " fucking just read my mail" I cant ?

[silverbackman]

@ang12341234 Not really. He sounds like he has never taken it. "Intoxication"? More like extreme mind enhancement! But hey, be mindful irregardless of whether you take lsd or not. Being mindful does not mean we abandon objectivity to subjective feeling as this fool is saying. In fact his view seems to have some influence of propaganda. Though some points may seem sound, keep in mind he may be very well be using a trying to be "hip" tactic popular with propaganda films at the time.

[FuiSoyYsereUnGil]

I'm starting to belive that i'm too young for psychedelics

[JiffyNo0b]

Everyone is in a way.

[ARCHETECTONIC]

then, logically, your sentence does not mean anything, except to you, of course ;)

[entity3sf]

LOL.

[netcyrus]

there is no such thing as objective meaning

[clargdorp]

Well, here you go:

Intent or implication attributed to an ambiguous statement by a neutral, reasonable person familiar with the context and/or the associated circumstances.

[HorusAmenRa]

whoa dude you sound smart. :)

"Intent or implication attributed to an ambiguous statement by a neutral, reasonable person familiar with the context and/or the associated circumstances." I read this 5 times and still don't get it. :)