Here's my take on it. Ron Paul running for president has given A PLATFORM to expose the masses to the freedom movement and ideas. This means more people join us. This also changes public opinion to freedom ideals. It doesn't mean that all those people will do anything for freedom, but they will be receptive to the ideas and changes we will be making in the society. Vast public resistance is never good to dissemination of a system change. Stefan's methods then need to be employed in conjunction.
This is the debate we need to focus on! Thank you stefan for bringing it up... I'm with you, political activism is not going to work, it's kind of like a gambler, he wins some small bets, hell many even a sizeable one every now and then! But eventually you are going to lose! The victories merely lull you into a false sense of achievement... Much like when people protest to have an innocent man released from prison, it's great and does work, but it will not when applied to bigger aspects of...
@snaz27 ... government control, or even government itself... Has it ever? The closest I can think of is ghandi, but then did he advocate protests? I wouldn't really say so, I would say it was more non violent disobedience! ie marching to the salt mines to take the salt that belonged to them! It wasn't really a protest, they just went to get what was theirs! Instead of screaming and shouting or perhaps fighting the soldiers, they queued up and got beaten one after the other, without fighting back
@snaz27 ... Now this leads me onto what I think we should do... Lets just take back our freedoms! Live our lives by our morals, and I mean that individually! I find libertarians fighting over the small stuff, when in essence we all want the same thing! Freedom to do what we want! Of course as long as that doesn't harm someone else without their consent!... So don't pay tax, if you feel it right not to! Grow pot, if that's what you want! etc etc.. It will no doubt bring about arrests, it will...
@snaz27 ... not be easy... You will effectively be swimming against the tide! Some people already do this, but we need to connect everybody that is! So we can begin to support each other through the tough times we'll face... I don't think stefan agrees with me because I've heard him speaking about avoiding the law at all costs! To me that is the talk of a slave! no offence stefan lol... Anyway sorry for the essay, I'll summarise by saying my vote is for non aggressive disobedience!
In a world of limitted resources we should not be greedy? If I own one coke can what difference does it make if I sip it now or later....I only have one. Or should I pass it along to a friend so HE can be greedy and sip it? Your crusade against profit is nothing more than a slave following a hypocritical slave regulation. There is nothing wrong with greed. Only hypocritical greed is bad. Altruism is the egoism of the weak.
Stef I'm happy to send you $10 large (Canadian!) every month! Nobody does it better than you! Get Block on your program and debate him! BOTH of you need a worthy opponent!
Never have I known anyone to think that a plausible way to get rid of the Mafia is to join up, break a few knee-caps and work your way up to become the Don.
To me, this is the same as using the political process to achieve freedom.
You are using rationality to explain people's action. Unfortunately, too many people in this day and age are not rational. They are superstitious, capricious, xenophobic, paranoid and led by demagogues.
"What we have given you, madam, is a Republic - if you can keep it.
I am not a statist, therefore I must join you in the questioning! Let us question the method proposed by you, Stefan. I mean the method of achieving free society by peaceful parenting. Did it work in the past? Where is the cost/benefit analysis? What is the efficiency? Can you empirically show, that it "works"? How can we be sure, that peacefully raised humans will not be slaughtered by non-peacefully raised ones?
@CosmicBoss2 - Did it work in the past? I think his point is that we need to try something different, and what he proposes happens to be something that hasn't been advocated or practiced before. Actually, there is a lot of scientific evidence, if you have seen what Stef has offered, that would lead one to consider his approach to having a good chance of working.
Please, explain what is meant by the statement "Political action does not work!" If you mean, that it is impossible to increase/decrease the degree of freedom by changing the rulers, then I can point to several counterexamples: China, Soviet Union, Taiwan, USA (political action= revolutionary war), Ancient Greece (polis could change its type from tyranny to oligarchy to democracy and back), Germany before WW2. It seems possible to increase the freedom within the state paradigm.
@CosmicBoss2 - you can increase/decrease freedom by changing rulers, but it is absolutely and utterly impossible to create freedom that way. The best explanation of this concept is the LarkenRose channel's videos "Tiny Dot" "Tiny Dot Explained" and "IfYouWereKing".
The only big difference between Stefan Molyneux and Ron Paul is that one may have the potential to get elected and get in the belly of the beast. Both are promoting liberty which is a good thing. I think Ron Paul did achieve something of value, which awaking millions to the ideas of liberty. There is value in changing minds.
Brilliant analysis and amazingly easy to follow but the conclusion of greater attention needed to early childhood seems to be a social engineer's dream. In my experience, the child is born with a distinct personality. We share our time and ourselves and try to keep that personality intact. Success is in the relationship process and not in an achievement goal.
Great video. Political influence, at least in the U.S., has been bought - controlled by the paymaster corporate elite. Politicians are nothing more than a smoke screen. To influence change and ultimately freedom, you have to find the fire - 'political action' won't get you there. We need a tactical/strategic model which educates, exposes source issues and calls for specific remedies - all in the name of liberty.
Trying to change the leaders of a fraudulent system will not make it not a fraud. Even if Ron Paul won nothing would change and he would be blamed for a collapse that at this point cannot be stopped. It would set back the freedom movement for years to come. The only true freedom is personal freedom through noncompliance.
@cchessmaster I personally don't think Ron has much chance of winning or will be the president when the economy collapses, but I'm worried that when the collapse does take place people wont blame the FED or government policies for it. Which is why Ron Paul's message is so important. If after the collapse the majority of American's come to blame the FED and big government than the US has a change of becoming a rich and powerful nation again. If they don't then that wont happen!
I believe that the west is on the edge of total economic collapse and if I'm right, that is something that has never happened before. After this collapse takes place people are going to want to blame someone and they are either going to listen to the Keynesian's or they are going to listen to people like Ron Paul who advocate the Austrian School of Economics. I hope to god that Ron Paul's message becomes widespread enough that we start moving in the right direction again and be prosperous.
I just can't over Ron Paul being a creationist. I agree with a quite a few things he wants to do. But I guess i've just lost hope when it comes to any form of solution coming from the government. I hope I am wrong, I swear I do, and I hope it works. But a deeper part of me knows it wont.
So if a majority of people vote through a direct democracy that the government needs to tax the rich more, taxation is no longer theft? The majority doesn't know any better what is the right solution for everyone, than they knew the facts about the universe in ancient times.
You refuse to admit that Ron Paul is the main driving force behind the exploding Freedom Movement where people are waking up to the state like never before, that his pursuit of the presidency is giving him a platform to reach people on a scale hitherto unimaginable. So what's wrong with thousands of people donating a little time and money to further his reach? Shame on you for your shortsightedness and for throwing water on this great effort whenever you can.
Visualize the uuter exposure of, and loss of mass confidence in controlled corporate media. The sundance channel sold for half a billion. That's about what a mainstream voice would cost, if the monied interests wouldnt bury you in lawsuits or have your contract with comcast and dish network dropped.
Stef, you should talk about the OTHER skill set used in biz that politics also uses:
(dodgy) SALESMANSHIP
If every educated, professional/ expert/ middle class person (the ppl with the power to actually make a difference!) was forced to spent 3 months selling a crappy, dangerous, over priced, ridiculously ineffective product on a commission basis with no other income, they'd gain an understanding of politics / politicians that would render ALL political spin/ BS/ lies INEFFECTIVE overnight.
You do not need to justify yourself here, Stef. Ron Paul's supporters are afflicted with mind control. It will pass, and when it does, a lot of people are going to be very embarassed and apologetic.
However another valid (IMHO) way of looking at it is to accept that the fundamental purpose of 'politics' is different to that which is STATED (no pun intended!)
The realm of political action is in truth a deceptive facade and a false belief system designed to waste the energy, time and resources of all who oppose the ruling powers that invented it.
This perspective is even more powerful than your 'outcome based' perspective because...
This perspective is even more powerful than your 'outcome based' perspective because .... not only can you understand WHY it doesn't work, you could (in theory) use this knowledge to keep on playing the game - only more effectively.
For instance one could devote ones 'political action' resources at goals that had nothing to do with achieving political gain directly - that is to say within the confines of the traditional political paradigm.
Well... One could campaign purely for sake of raising awareness (with no thought to achieving political gain). One could (for instance) campaign for one's opponent's policies and values - only without the spin and word play.
One could theoretically campaign openly for the policies of taking money off people by force and using it to kill innocent civilians abroad, or have a monopoly on education of children or making the creation of money out of thin air lawful, but only for a select group.
This comment has received too many negative votesshow
He's a pompous-ass.
The fact that so many of you have accept him as a 'philosopher', and all his other assertions, says more how about how gullible YOU are, than how 'smart and worshipful' HE is!
I think listening to people's opinions is just fine. When we get to the level of wanting to know what leads people to opinions; then we are listening to a cult leader airing his vanity in that respect. I admit cutting off at around about 2 minutes wholly bored.
@topthickproducer Expanding on the subject. Boycotts draws the attention of corporations that buy politicians. Civil disobedience in mass makes it impossible for the government to oppress everyone. Peaceful protests draw the attention of the media.
Again political donations are just the epitome of wasted resources for the average joe. Or the zenith of lobbying corporations.
Politics is a very distorted word. This is due to most people for so many years now not conceiving a society with no government form so immediately when they hear the word "politics" or "political action", it means government activities. However, even if one just accepts the current situation and the current definition of "politics" as governmental machinery, you are still political due to rules of engagements and interpersonal relationships.
Having listened to your books and podcasts, I realize more each time there's so much repetition. It must get tiring repeating simple things repeatedly, but I suppose it's the best way for outreach.
What did we want? What did it cost? What did we get? Was it worth it? Should we do it again? ....that's it o_o
You're wrong, but I appreciate your stance furthering the discussion. Using a free market analogy, you need a phone and while you might never find the perfect one, you still need to have a phone today. Another analogy, there is a damsel in distress, but you can't waste your resources, because she's not the damsel you were expecting.
You're ultimately right, but we still have to live in a statist's world. Do we all really have to live in a cave away from everyone else?
People often tell me that change takes time and that influencing the political system HAS worked - e.g., the civil rights era altered laws so that Blacks were no longer oppressed to the same extent by the system. contd
@techjunkie92 Now the society I want to see would be impossible to achieve with a political system, with a state, and certainly I question support of Ron Paul, but I'm also not dogmatically opposed to reform, so I was wondering. given that you support gradual societal change, are you sure that channeling energy into the political system to gradually reform it is ultimately detrimental? This video wasn't really a sophisticated analysis - you said political action has failed, but (contd)
@techjunkie92 You didn't really discuss the SPECIFIC empirical evidence for gains vs. harm. Yes, the U.S. government has continued to expand since its inception, but you didn't weigh the gains of non-political action vs. harm or non-effect vs. the gains of political action vs. harm or non-effect. Can you do this in a future video, or at least attempt to explain your analysis of this?
@techjunkie92 In other words, despite my opposition to the political system, its possible that achieving small reforms through it could get us closer to being in a position to abolish it. The "using the master's tools" saying isn't true - you can indeed use the master's tools to demolish the master's house, you just have to use the right tactics and have the right power. So if putting energy into Ron Paul's campaign educates a lot of people, isn't that better than Paul not running?
which is true, almost by definition. but you can make progress in the right direction. you can spread nonviolence and anti-statism while voting to contain and minimize the current, active, fearsome government that, unchecked, could itself do far more inhibit the spread to the anti-statism
it's not inherently or necessarily counter-productive to engage in political action. very often it is, but it doesn't HAVE to be. pragmatism is a principle, too
@BroBroDude You probably cant vote it away, but it defiantly wont vanish on its own. The only two methods Ive even encountered in the history books are civil disobedience and organized violence. Thanks for the comment.
Politics is simply an educational venue. It is the venue in which people consider their options for the organization of society. If we leave that soap box, we surrender it to solely the statists who will then utterly dominate the conversation. Engaging in political action is not because we actually think that will change anything, but because it is a rear guard action that helps at least stem the tide, while also educating those who can still hear.
the problem is, the liberty movement does not have a corporate structure. expenditures are organic, and people will spend money ineffectively. I'm also a successful entrepreneur, and believe that political action is in fact a successful way of shifting the masses toward our philosophy. It hasn't worked in the past, because we haven't had the exposure that we have now.
ahh yes the personal opinion/perception/test of reality. Yeah that never works, just because you have a corn-hole does not make it useful other than its singular purpose or a tool at all.
Yep, political action is a disaster. I am personally leaning toward fully adopting the Buckminster Fuller model...well at least in my own life. Here's an interesting interview discussing Ron Paul's ideas (and his possible presidency) and how it possibly could help with the Fuller model.
I know it's an election season again, but when will we get out of this cycle of people talking about Ron Paul really having a chance to win, and then spending the time until the next election talking about how many people he educated.
I look at it like this - I support Ron Paul, and propagate his message to as many people as I can. I feel that those that respond to him are more likely to be able to be persuaded to a true voluntaryist position. It's largely a waste of time to randomly select republicans or conservatives for this one-on-one discussion. Ron Paul supporters are closer to The Truth (c) and discussions are much more efficacious.
Analogy: government as roughly a pyramid with a few in the top echelons with power, but distributed so much over the rest of the base. Ron Paul as President would be a great change, but only in that position compared to previous presidents. The problem is systemic..the base...heck the very FOUNDATION of government...and that is its self-anointed monopoly on the initiation of force. Government is fine without the gun...but then it really isn't government, is it?
I said it on the last video. I love the Ideal, but that is all it is. It can never be reached unless you find a small group of like minded individuals that congregate to form a society. Anyone who disagrees or anyone who decides to use aggression topples the house of cards. A stateless society based on a nonaggression principle is lovely, but more fragile than a society built around limited Government. Except, that you get warlords instead of dictators.
@Orionx30 Actually Society inherently has disagreements(Every Thesis has an Antithesis). The reason people have government is to have someone to arbiter disagreements through the creation of laws. The problem is that government is ran by people and people are flawed and weak and are prone to the corrupting influences of money, power, ignorance and just plain personal bias. It is the same story every time civilization rises. This was stated long ago by Plato and Aristotle.
@Orionx30 On the other hand he is right about how government tends to be abused and used as a way to force one groups ideas of what is right on another group. So his heart is in the right place. He just combines things in a way that I find a little distorted.
@Orionx30 The thing I don't like about Stefbot is that he has some false assumptions about what does and doesn't work. Social Programs like Social Security, Unemployment and Medicare have been huge successes. Social Security has a 2.7 billion dollar surplus. Unemployment Saves families from homelessness. Medicare gives millions access to medical care who wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise. Not every job gives Insurance to it's employees.
@bobafruti What about societal cost? I find it hard to believe that society would be better if we just throw people who are just started and those who can no longer work under the bus. To me that is a form of violence and Stefbot is guilty of it.
To me the mantra of Freedom and stopping violent agression globally is a message worth pushing on society!! Ron Paul, for example admits that he does NOT have all the answers but it goes back to his message of personal freedom and responsibilty!! The message of Freedom through the original Bill of Rights is a damned good starting point, which rejects the notion of an American Police state and a "Globalist Agenda"!!
I loved this video! Your history reminds me of myself. I know what you're saying Stefan! I have lost all hope in politics changing anything. I would love to see Ron Paul win, but I know that there isn't going to be the anarchic realization that this system has failed us and we don't need governments. Ron Paul could shake things up, which could be really good, or really bad. Thanks Stefan!
you right about Ron Paul. But if you will have a master. It is better to have Ron Paul in there. Then all the rest with a IRON fist. Because we know it will fall apart . But I dont want someone in there that will say MORE GOVERMENT.
I would agree that political action has failed, but the game isn't over. political action just means the action of people. everything we do in a group is inherently political, whether it's voting or playing in a schoolyard at 5 y.o. Political action on the national level has failed to achieve a healthy society but only political action will succeed, if it is possible to succeed. only by the majority of us agreeing to common laws/principles and living by them will we be healthy as a whole
@SovereignBeing ron paul is a pimp! he's going to put baby powder in his hand and bitch slap you like a jerry springer show on crack... something like that :p
@KieranRicciDotCom Yes, I happen to agree with Stef on this. I'm not going to say something different if I don't believe something different. Stef's predictions are backed by historical examples, so it's not a slippery slope fallacy. At any rate, as far as is evident, Ron Paul is a minarchist, and that is an irrational position to hold.
@blapgat If you opt out of public education, u pay no education tax. Reduce government spending/influence over time and give more control locally. I see it as a step in the right direction.
@KieranRicciDotCom That may be, but nobody who is entrenched in statism will let him do that. If they do not get their cut of the pillaging of everyone else's pocketbooks, they will protest violently.
Eh, there's plenty of folks covering political stuff - Stef doesn't need to spend time on it. It's a good season to point out the breakdown of the political system.
To all those heavily invested in the political game - keep going. Perhaps you have a point. Those that are not invested - just remember that the more power the state has the more it needs and focusing on the state as a solution to anything legitimizes the state.
@KieranRicciDotCom If Ron Paul is open to consistent voluntarism across the board, then he should abolish the government completely. A voluntary government is an oxymoron. But he will not be able to do this. Society is sick, and drunk on the coercion of others. The only way to change is to cure society of its delusions.
You’ve made your case Stefan; just like you did about 4 years ago. The message is the same, but I think your cosmetic approach this time comes across much better (unfortunately, that matters to many) – respectful, logical, and without any condescension. I think the old guard is feeling their mortality, and added to the enthusiasm of the youth, perhaps they are more hopeful than reason would suggest.
We will get through this somewhat unique political season, and your words will be remembered.
I think that both the problem and the solution to all the things in our economy and society is in the mirror. Its not about the external, politics to me is all about getting others to do things to change the world rather than than starting at the root, ourselves. instead of focusing on what he or she should do to fix the worlds problems, work on improving ones self, morals, ethics belief systems, how we live our lives, how we raise our kids, how we communicate with others, that sort of thing
Giving up political action is really hard! It's seems like if we just implemented libertarian policies (even a few), then we would much better off. If freedom is our goal as libertarians, we must live free first.. freedom from our own delusions (that the state is incorrigible and political action is unnecessary)
@ComicPenius No, taxes are stolen from me by force. I have no choice. If I had a choice, and chose to pay, that would be an implicit endorsement. But if I had a choice, then taxation would not be theft and hence not evil. If people had that choice, they would not give their money to what they believed to be evil and corrupt.
@eulercircles So you are saying, that given the choice to continue with forced taxation, or stopping it, you would choose the former because you did not endorsed the forced taxation in the first place?
@UKLooney No, I didn't say that at all. The point is that I have no choice, and voting for Ron Paul is not going to change a thing. If Ron Paul were to ever abolish the income tax, what about other taxes? What about all the other instances of the initiation of force against non aggressors. The government has to do that on some level, or it would not be a government. So what I am saying is you either endorse evil or you do not. There is no in-between or "lesser" position.
@eulercircles Do you think that if Ron Paul became President, it wouldn't change a thing? No progress would be made towards, say, getting the government out of your education system? Or is it that he just doesn't stand a chance of winning?
@UKLooney I think that he has good intentions (though misguided), but I don't think he will be able to change anything. There are too many people invested in the system who will not let their part be cut out. He will either be assassinated or there will be widespread rioting and violence. The whole thing could collapse into chaos, and it will be blamed on libertarians, since that will be the party in power when it happens. The system's already on the brink of collapse. He'd be a handy scapegoat.
@UKLooney I didn't draw that inference. There may well end up being chaos if he doesn't win. I don't accept that I have to choose either. That's why I don't vote.
i can only just begin to thank you for what you do stef, your ideas and general philosophy are inspiring. so what do you believe is the best way (or even a productive way) to be 'an activist'. there is the education approach, i'd put you in the same boat alex jones, you educate audiences, provide information and even offer solutions. is that all there is to it? instead of being a revolutionary be an evolutionary? since the breakdown of cveitch do you think we need more 'productive' activism?
@Everythingreallyisok sorry if that barely made sense the character limit is annoying. and also, im against any kind of political action 'those who want power do not deserve it', cant change the mafia from the inside etc..
ok so what you're basically saying is don't give your money to Ron Paul, give it to Stefan Molyneux instead ! hehehe - clever ;) but i have a better idea ! GIVE YOUR MONEY TO MEEEEE ! ! !
maybe he had to throw away his support with the Rand concept then maybe we have some hope - GOOD HEALTH will always be our guide into doing the right thing. i bet he doesn't even read comments so I trust he will keep following this Rand concept which will always be based on greed - selfishness and no lack of interest for the entire planet - just because you can doesn't mean you should
Not voting sounds cool but if there's a hardcore corrupt criminal attempting to gain power and you sit back and do nothing when there's a better alternative then you're going to be enslaved. On the other hand, maybe people need to be enslaved before they will care enough to want to do anything.
@ComicPenius See other comment. I don't 'pay' tax. It's not voluntary. It is a crime against me, not a voluntary endorsement from me. This is specifically one of the evils I am talking about. Does a slave's beating from his master count as an endorsement of said beating?
@eulercircles So if one candidate is promising 100% taxation and another is promising 0% taxation, you would sit back and allow 100% taxation? IRS, Police etc. aren't going to leave you alone because you didn't vote.
I know it's cool to believe that you live outside of this petty paradigm but none of us do.
One view is that politics is down stream from culture. That the media of Liberalism transfers to a cultural "reality" that sets the political agenda. That powerful, persuasive, growing media of Liberty and Freedom has the impact on culture and from there politic.
You're never going to convince the average person to divorce themselves from the political system. It's a paradigm that we have to work within. You can't dismantle it from the outside. I understand your theory but I don't think it's realistic at this point in time.
@freefallfalcon OMG thanks for telling me, this is something I've been daydreaming about for a while now and their actually doing it! My biggest concern is this:
"the idea of a land free of government control isn't entirely new. In 1967, Italian engineer Giorgio Rosa funded the construction of a 400 square meter platform... The so called "sovereign" nation didn't last long. Italian government assumed control soon of the structure, and the Italian Navy used explosives to destroy the facility."
Lew Rockwell was an entrepenuer I think, wasn't Dave Casey? That guy you talk to who is in Mexico was an entrepenuer. ITs true that political action has got us libertarians next to nothing. Cannabis freedom is moving forward finally after decades of stagnation though. I basically agree with what your saying I just think that your timing is off, waiting until after the election would make you look better. This election will probably be it for both Ron Paul and libertarian political action.
part 2 It seems like everyone is scrounging for a base of libertarian suppoters but they all try to do it at the expense of others, which is quite ironic when you realize that is pretty much the name of the statist game. I think you should maybe remind people every once in a while, instead of spending soo much time on it, then maybe after if he loses THEN spend a lot of time on it when defeat is fresh in their minds, and point out that you predicted it all along.
@itchcitizen2 Hashishin13 would have known that if he/she actually spent some time listening to all Stef has to say about it and thinking before setting fingers to keyboard. Some people will just never learn.
@eulercircles Voting costs you nothing, and any arguement about "lending credibility/consent to the gov" is rendered moot by the fact that the government will do what it likes with or without your consent. I voted once before I became a libertarian and if there was a libertarian running here in canada I might vote for them, but theres really no point here, we are surrounded by socialists who more then just border on communistic ideals.
@Hashishin13 Wait ... let me get this straight ... you say that the government does what it likes with or without my consent? If that's so, what's the point in voting then?
@tmwyt I've seen this video and agree with it. This is what I've been saying. Was your recommendation meant for someone else? Even still, I think I will watch that video again. Thanks.
Complete and pure scepticism?
You mean the Socratic method of maieutics?
I think that's exactly what we need to do.
Skullchaser08 6 months ago
Here's my take on it. Ron Paul running for president has given A PLATFORM to expose the masses to the freedom movement and ideas. This means more people join us. This also changes public opinion to freedom ideals. It doesn't mean that all those people will do anything for freedom, but they will be receptive to the ideas and changes we will be making in the society. Vast public resistance is never good to dissemination of a system change. Stefan's methods then need to be employed in conjunction.
grumpone 6 months ago
This is the debate we need to focus on! Thank you stefan for bringing it up... I'm with you, political activism is not going to work, it's kind of like a gambler, he wins some small bets, hell many even a sizeable one every now and then! But eventually you are going to lose! The victories merely lull you into a false sense of achievement... Much like when people protest to have an innocent man released from prison, it's great and does work, but it will not when applied to bigger aspects of...
snaz27 6 months ago
@snaz27 ... government control, or even government itself... Has it ever? The closest I can think of is ghandi, but then did he advocate protests? I wouldn't really say so, I would say it was more non violent disobedience! ie marching to the salt mines to take the salt that belonged to them! It wasn't really a protest, they just went to get what was theirs! Instead of screaming and shouting or perhaps fighting the soldiers, they queued up and got beaten one after the other, without fighting back
snaz27 6 months ago
@snaz27 ... Now this leads me onto what I think we should do... Lets just take back our freedoms! Live our lives by our morals, and I mean that individually! I find libertarians fighting over the small stuff, when in essence we all want the same thing! Freedom to do what we want! Of course as long as that doesn't harm someone else without their consent!... So don't pay tax, if you feel it right not to! Grow pot, if that's what you want! etc etc.. It will no doubt bring about arrests, it will...
snaz27 6 months ago
@snaz27 ... not be easy... You will effectively be swimming against the tide! Some people already do this, but we need to connect everybody that is! So we can begin to support each other through the tough times we'll face... I don't think stefan agrees with me because I've heard him speaking about avoiding the law at all costs! To me that is the talk of a slave! no offence stefan lol... Anyway sorry for the essay, I'll summarise by saying my vote is for non aggressive disobedience!
snaz27 6 months ago
@26Keano1 Everything is a tyranny to SOMEBODY.
In a world of limitted resources we should not be greedy? If I own one coke can what difference does it make if I sip it now or later....I only have one. Or should I pass it along to a friend so HE can be greedy and sip it? Your crusade against profit is nothing more than a slave following a hypocritical slave regulation. There is nothing wrong with greed. Only hypocritical greed is bad. Altruism is the egoism of the weak.
DaveElectric 6 months ago
@DaveElectric nice analogy
gradiu3rox 6 months ago
Stef I'm happy to send you $10 large (Canadian!) every month! Nobody does it better than you! Get Block on your program and debate him! BOTH of you need a worthy opponent!
ashane77 6 months ago 9
Never have I known anyone to think that a plausible way to get rid of the Mafia is to join up, break a few knee-caps and work your way up to become the Don.
To me, this is the same as using the political process to achieve freedom.
furyofbongos 6 months ago 2
This has been flagged as spam show
You can't abolish a delusion (government) by engaging with it in any way.
furyofbongos 6 months ago
this man is a LIAR!! it's actually August the 22'nd. HA!!!
failblorg 6 months ago
You are using rationality to explain people's action. Unfortunately, too many people in this day and age are not rational. They are superstitious, capricious, xenophobic, paranoid and led by demagogues.
"What we have given you, madam, is a Republic - if you can keep it.
saadasim 6 months ago
STEF'S MESSAGE:
"I do not want to make Slavery 90% better. I want to make it 100% nonexistent."
WorthlessCurrency 6 months ago 18
*yawn* I listened to all the irrelevant, boring bragging about his pathetic company so you don't have to. Video starts at: 6:10.
Thank me later.
jp70117 6 months ago
@jp70117 thank's
possetraxxx 6 months ago
What an incredible mind.
PortlandsTransport 6 months ago
Nice. I am happy to hear what you had to say.
Now, i'm not religious, but i don't think "prayer" is.
Praying is placing an intention of the future you hope to see.
I pray for you.
Carnei 6 months ago
slavery is freedom war is peace welcome to the planet earth
mstrephoenix1 6 months ago
think again :)
Keywest1984 6 months ago
The light you speak of burns bright in satire.
You bring on trend disruptive like philosophy to millions of youtube viewers. You are an inspiration. Keep up the hard work. J.Geraghty
Jambo2017 6 months ago
how about talk about skepticism in the fact that we'll have solar storms and CME'S and tonnes of disasters to worry about soon. ppl need to get ready
bluefly28 6 months ago
What ?
RockTheOcean4me 6 months ago
I am not a statist, therefore I must join you in the questioning! Let us question the method proposed by you, Stefan. I mean the method of achieving free society by peaceful parenting. Did it work in the past? Where is the cost/benefit analysis? What is the efficiency? Can you empirically show, that it "works"? How can we be sure, that peacefully raised humans will not be slaughtered by non-peacefully raised ones?
CosmicBoss2 6 months ago
@CosmicBoss2 - Did it work in the past? I think his point is that we need to try something different, and what he proposes happens to be something that hasn't been advocated or practiced before. Actually, there is a lot of scientific evidence, if you have seen what Stef has offered, that would lead one to consider his approach to having a good chance of working.
furyofbongos 6 months ago
Please, explain what is meant by the statement "Political action does not work!" If you mean, that it is impossible to increase/decrease the degree of freedom by changing the rulers, then I can point to several counterexamples: China, Soviet Union, Taiwan, USA (political action= revolutionary war), Ancient Greece (polis could change its type from tyranny to oligarchy to democracy and back), Germany before WW2. It seems possible to increase the freedom within the state paradigm.
CosmicBoss2 6 months ago
@CosmicBoss2 - you can increase/decrease freedom by changing rulers, but it is absolutely and utterly impossible to create freedom that way. The best explanation of this concept is the LarkenRose channel's videos "Tiny Dot" "Tiny Dot Explained" and "IfYouWereKing".
furyofbongos 6 months ago
yeah great, keep on flirting with determinism, there is always a cause, no need for mysteries.
modelmark 6 months ago
So, if political action does not work , how do you suggest we legalize drugs ?
koneye 6 months ago
The only big difference between Stefan Molyneux and Ron Paul is that one may have the potential to get elected and get in the belly of the beast. Both are promoting liberty which is a good thing. I think Ron Paul did achieve something of value, which awaking millions to the ideas of liberty. There is value in changing minds.
ggadguy 6 months ago
Brilliant analysis and amazingly easy to follow but the conclusion of greater attention needed to early childhood seems to be a social engineer's dream. In my experience, the child is born with a distinct personality. We share our time and ourselves and try to keep that personality intact. Success is in the relationship process and not in an achievement goal.
33115566 6 months ago
Great video. Political influence, at least in the U.S., has been bought - controlled by the paymaster corporate elite. Politicians are nothing more than a smoke screen. To influence change and ultimately freedom, you have to find the fire - 'political action' won't get you there. We need a tactical/strategic model which educates, exposes source issues and calls for specific remedies - all in the name of liberty.
itsthecurrencystupid 6 months ago
Trying to change the leaders of a fraudulent system will not make it not a fraud. Even if Ron Paul won nothing would change and he would be blamed for a collapse that at this point cannot be stopped. It would set back the freedom movement for years to come. The only true freedom is personal freedom through noncompliance.
cchessmaster 6 months ago
@cchessmaster I personally don't think Ron has much chance of winning or will be the president when the economy collapses, but I'm worried that when the collapse does take place people wont blame the FED or government policies for it. Which is why Ron Paul's message is so important. If after the collapse the majority of American's come to blame the FED and big government than the US has a change of becoming a rich and powerful nation again. If they don't then that wont happen!
titan13131 6 months ago
I believe that the west is on the edge of total economic collapse and if I'm right, that is something that has never happened before. After this collapse takes place people are going to want to blame someone and they are either going to listen to the Keynesian's or they are going to listen to people like Ron Paul who advocate the Austrian School of Economics. I hope to god that Ron Paul's message becomes widespread enough that we start moving in the right direction again and be prosperous.
titan13131 6 months ago
I just can't over Ron Paul being a creationist. I agree with a quite a few things he wants to do. But I guess i've just lost hope when it comes to any form of solution coming from the government. I hope I am wrong, I swear I do, and I hope it works. But a deeper part of me knows it wont.
PaperSoapy 6 months ago
the solution is to add a direct democracy to the senate where senators write bills and vote along with citizens online
deshaebeasley 6 months ago
@deshaebeasley
So if a majority of people vote through a direct democracy that the government needs to tax the rich more, taxation is no longer theft? The majority doesn't know any better what is the right solution for everyone, than they knew the facts about the universe in ancient times.
tridentmovies 6 months ago
watch?v=fC8BuIE6BbQ
deshaebeasley 6 months ago
You refuse to admit that Ron Paul is the main driving force behind the exploding Freedom Movement where people are waking up to the state like never before, that his pursuit of the presidency is giving him a platform to reach people on a scale hitherto unimaginable. So what's wrong with thousands of people donating a little time and money to further his reach? Shame on you for your shortsightedness and for throwing water on this great effort whenever you can.
fagan411 6 months ago
Visualize the uuter exposure of, and loss of mass confidence in controlled corporate media. The sundance channel sold for half a billion. That's about what a mainstream voice would cost, if the monied interests wouldnt bury you in lawsuits or have your contract with comcast and dish network dropped.
Cashify 6 months ago
Stef, you should talk about the OTHER skill set used in biz that politics also uses:
(dodgy) SALESMANSHIP
If every educated, professional/ expert/ middle class person (the ppl with the power to actually make a difference!) was forced to spent 3 months selling a crappy, dangerous, over priced, ridiculously ineffective product on a commission basis with no other income, they'd gain an understanding of politics / politicians that would render ALL political spin/ BS/ lies INEFFECTIVE overnight.
theawecabinet 6 months ago
You do not need to justify yourself here, Stef. Ron Paul's supporters are afflicted with mind control. It will pass, and when it does, a lot of people are going to be very embarassed and apologetic.
petrus4 6 months ago
Stefan ..you shouldve stuck to business ...16.35 ..of waffle ...
nolslifegren 6 months ago
This is a perfectly valid way of looking at it.
However another valid (IMHO) way of looking at it is to accept that the fundamental purpose of 'politics' is different to that which is STATED (no pun intended!)
The realm of political action is in truth a deceptive facade and a false belief system designed to waste the energy, time and resources of all who oppose the ruling powers that invented it.
This perspective is even more powerful than your 'outcome based' perspective because...
>>>
theawecabinet 6 months ago
>>>
This perspective is even more powerful than your 'outcome based' perspective because .... not only can you understand WHY it doesn't work, you could (in theory) use this knowledge to keep on playing the game - only more effectively.
For instance one could devote ones 'political action' resources at goals that had nothing to do with achieving political gain directly - that is to say within the confines of the traditional political paradigm.
What do I mean? Well...
>>>
theawecabinet 6 months ago
>>>
Well... One could campaign purely for sake of raising awareness (with no thought to achieving political gain). One could (for instance) campaign for one's opponent's policies and values - only without the spin and word play.
One could theoretically campaign openly for the policies of taking money off people by force and using it to kill innocent civilians abroad, or have a monopoly on education of children or making the creation of money out of thin air lawful, but only for a select group.
theawecabinet 6 months ago
Stefan. I'm curious to know, if you've ever taken an IQ test?
If so, what was your score?
Incognitoification1 6 months ago
This comment has received too many negative votes show
He's a pompous-ass.
The fact that so many of you have accept him as a 'philosopher', and all his other assertions, says more how about how gullible YOU are, than how 'smart and worshipful' HE is!
OzzyPatriot 6 months ago
@OzzyPatriot
Well, that's just like.... your opinion man.
In all seriousness have you ever read his work? Anything?
seanmc30 6 months ago
I think listening to people's opinions is just fine. When we get to the level of wanting to know what leads people to opinions; then we are listening to a cult leader airing his vanity in that respect. I admit cutting off at around about 2 minutes wholly bored.
Caligula0708 6 months ago
Never thought about it this way! Cool :)
CapitalistPhil 6 months ago
Political action expenditure is as pointless and possibly detrimental as foreign aid. Money can be spent in better ways.
baalisgod666 6 months ago
The choices for social change left for the 'people' are boycotts, civil disobedience and those peaceful protests that make a difference.
Political ballots are full of different choices that lead to the same type of governments: LIARS
topthickproducer 6 months ago 3
@topthickproducer Expanding on the subject. Boycotts draws the attention of corporations that buy politicians. Civil disobedience in mass makes it impossible for the government to oppress everyone. Peaceful protests draw the attention of the media.
Again political donations are just the epitome of wasted resources for the average joe. Or the zenith of lobbying corporations.
topthickproducer 6 months ago
Politics is a very distorted word. This is due to most people for so many years now not conceiving a society with no government form so immediately when they hear the word "politics" or "political action", it means government activities. However, even if one just accepts the current situation and the current definition of "politics" as governmental machinery, you are still political due to rules of engagements and interpersonal relationships.
Junioreality 6 months ago
Having listened to your books and podcasts, I realize more each time there's so much repetition. It must get tiring repeating simple things repeatedly, but I suppose it's the best way for outreach.
What did we want? What did it cost? What did we get? Was it worth it? Should we do it again? ....that's it o_o
There's always the optimists, though.
Heallun 6 months ago
You're wrong, but I appreciate your stance furthering the discussion. Using a free market analogy, you need a phone and while you might never find the perfect one, you still need to have a phone today. Another analogy, there is a damsel in distress, but you can't waste your resources, because she's not the damsel you were expecting.
You're ultimately right, but we still have to live in a statist's world. Do we all really have to live in a cave away from everyone else?
aletoledo1 6 months ago
People often tell me that change takes time and that influencing the political system HAS worked - e.g., the civil rights era altered laws so that Blacks were no longer oppressed to the same extent by the system. contd
techjunkie92 6 months ago
@techjunkie92 Now the society I want to see would be impossible to achieve with a political system, with a state, and certainly I question support of Ron Paul, but I'm also not dogmatically opposed to reform, so I was wondering. given that you support gradual societal change, are you sure that channeling energy into the political system to gradually reform it is ultimately detrimental? This video wasn't really a sophisticated analysis - you said political action has failed, but (contd)
techjunkie92 6 months ago
@techjunkie92 You didn't really discuss the SPECIFIC empirical evidence for gains vs. harm. Yes, the U.S. government has continued to expand since its inception, but you didn't weigh the gains of non-political action vs. harm or non-effect vs. the gains of political action vs. harm or non-effect. Can you do this in a future video, or at least attempt to explain your analysis of this?
techjunkie92 6 months ago
@techjunkie92 In other words, despite my opposition to the political system, its possible that achieving small reforms through it could get us closer to being in a position to abolish it. The "using the master's tools" saying isn't true - you can indeed use the master's tools to demolish the master's house, you just have to use the right tactics and have the right power. So if putting energy into Ron Paul's campaign educates a lot of people, isn't that better than Paul not running?
techjunkie92 6 months ago
So I take it he thinks we should just wish the government away?
DrDissent 6 months ago
@DrDissent he thinks you can't vote it away
which is true, almost by definition. but you can make progress in the right direction. you can spread nonviolence and anti-statism while voting to contain and minimize the current, active, fearsome government that, unchecked, could itself do far more inhibit the spread to the anti-statism
it's not inherently or necessarily counter-productive to engage in political action. very often it is, but it doesn't HAVE to be. pragmatism is a principle, too
BroBroDude 6 months ago
@BroBroDude You probably cant vote it away, but it defiantly wont vanish on its own. The only two methods Ive even encountered in the history books are civil disobedience and organized violence. Thanks for the comment.
DrDissent 6 months ago
Politics is simply an educational venue. It is the venue in which people consider their options for the organization of society. If we leave that soap box, we surrender it to solely the statists who will then utterly dominate the conversation. Engaging in political action is not because we actually think that will change anything, but because it is a rear guard action that helps at least stem the tide, while also educating those who can still hear.
Panpiper 6 months ago 2
Create a Peaceful Parenting DVD and start handing them out to parents.
dodododa 6 months ago
You're a tech geek. Get a good lapel mic!
dodododa 6 months ago
Can libertarians use government for self defense? As in using government to "recover" rights that were once recognized?
pSychOAtDawn 6 months ago
Stop spewing verbal pompous shit and get to the fucking point.
luc649 6 months ago
the problem is, the liberty movement does not have a corporate structure. expenditures are organic, and people will spend money ineffectively. I'm also a successful entrepreneur, and believe that political action is in fact a successful way of shifting the masses toward our philosophy. It hasn't worked in the past, because we haven't had the exposure that we have now.
EastCoastAvenger 6 months ago
Comment removed
EastCoastAvenger 6 months ago
Stef...simply Brilliant!!
noudo25 6 months ago
ahh yes the personal opinion/perception/test of reality. Yeah that never works, just because you have a corn-hole does not make it useful other than its singular purpose or a tool at all.
SlingSalsa 6 months ago
Assumptions are just that, questioning is the one axiom!
JohnnyNucks 6 months ago
Yep, political action is a disaster. I am personally leaning toward fully adopting the Buckminster Fuller model...well at least in my own life. Here's an interesting interview discussing Ron Paul's ideas (and his possible presidency) and how it possibly could help with the Fuller model.
/watch?v=OE6I-Y6ynwo
8DoverNJ 6 months ago
I'm tired of the Ron Paul thing... soo tired.
I know it's an election season again, but when will we get out of this cycle of people talking about Ron Paul really having a chance to win, and then spending the time until the next election talking about how many people he educated.
bobafruti 6 months ago
i'll try again to post my comment. you espouse incrementalism when you talk about non violence. well what about incremenalism in politics.
ron paul is a step on that ladder.
it seems "that your perpetual idea of non-violance" would lead to multiple generations of abject servitude.
do you have an idea about these consequences?
what about peacefull incrementalism?
bozeman14 6 months ago
I look at it like this - I support Ron Paul, and propagate his message to as many people as I can. I feel that those that respond to him are more likely to be able to be persuaded to a true voluntaryist position. It's largely a waste of time to randomly select republicans or conservatives for this one-on-one discussion. Ron Paul supporters are closer to The Truth (c) and discussions are much more efficacious.
Jollyprez 6 months ago
You are like a modern day Charlie Brown. :)
So glad you are not a cult leader. lol
Nexus2Eden 6 months ago
Analogy: government as roughly a pyramid with a few in the top echelons with power, but distributed so much over the rest of the base. Ron Paul as President would be a great change, but only in that position compared to previous presidents. The problem is systemic..the base...heck the very FOUNDATION of government...and that is its self-anointed monopoly on the initiation of force. Government is fine without the gun...but then it really isn't government, is it?
RodCornholio 6 months ago
You have a black background because you have turned to the dark side. YOU'RE WRONG !!!
stefdarkside 6 months ago
I said it on the last video. I love the Ideal, but that is all it is. It can never be reached unless you find a small group of like minded individuals that congregate to form a society. Anyone who disagrees or anyone who decides to use aggression topples the house of cards. A stateless society based on a nonaggression principle is lovely, but more fragile than a society built around limited Government. Except, that you get warlords instead of dictators.
Orionx30 6 months ago
@Orionx30 Actually Society inherently has disagreements(Every Thesis has an Antithesis). The reason people have government is to have someone to arbiter disagreements through the creation of laws. The problem is that government is ran by people and people are flawed and weak and are prone to the corrupting influences of money, power, ignorance and just plain personal bias. It is the same story every time civilization rises. This was stated long ago by Plato and Aristotle.
NoogLeader 6 months ago
@NoogLeader of course.
Orionx30 6 months ago
@Orionx30 On the other hand he is right about how government tends to be abused and used as a way to force one groups ideas of what is right on another group. So his heart is in the right place. He just combines things in a way that I find a little distorted.
NoogLeader 6 months ago
@Orionx30 The thing I don't like about Stefbot is that he has some false assumptions about what does and doesn't work. Social Programs like Social Security, Unemployment and Medicare have been huge successes. Social Security has a 2.7 billion dollar surplus. Unemployment Saves families from homelessness. Medicare gives millions access to medical care who wouldn't be able to afford it otherwise. Not every job gives Insurance to it's employees.
NoogLeader 6 months ago
@NoogLeader opportunity costs
bobafruti 6 months ago
@bobafruti What about societal cost? I find it hard to believe that society would be better if we just throw people who are just started and those who can no longer work under the bus. To me that is a form of violence and Stefbot is guilty of it.
NoogLeader 6 months ago
To me the mantra of Freedom and stopping violent agression globally is a message worth pushing on society!! Ron Paul, for example admits that he does NOT have all the answers but it goes back to his message of personal freedom and responsibilty!! The message of Freedom through the original Bill of Rights is a damned good starting point, which rejects the notion of an American Police state and a "Globalist Agenda"!!
watertonrivers 6 months ago
I loved this video! Your history reminds me of myself. I know what you're saying Stefan! I have lost all hope in politics changing anything. I would love to see Ron Paul win, but I know that there isn't going to be the anarchic realization that this system has failed us and we don't need governments. Ron Paul could shake things up, which could be really good, or really bad. Thanks Stefan!
snarplaya 6 months ago
this makes complete sense. "think again," should be the mantra of every honest person who desires positive the end more than dogmatic means.
volksmenner 6 months ago
You can still see the wall of Red Room behind the dark sheet in the bottom left corner of the screen. :-)
hkweasel 6 months ago
you right about Ron Paul. But if you will have a master. It is better to have Ron Paul in there. Then all the rest with a IRON fist. Because we know it will fall apart . But I dont want someone in there that will say MORE GOVERMENT.
thestonemaster81 6 months ago
I would agree that political action has failed, but the game isn't over. political action just means the action of people. everything we do in a group is inherently political, whether it's voting or playing in a schoolyard at 5 y.o. Political action on the national level has failed to achieve a healthy society but only political action will succeed, if it is possible to succeed. only by the majority of us agreeing to common laws/principles and living by them will we be healthy as a whole
cruiscinlan 6 months ago
why do people believe Ron Paul's rhetoric, he is the biggest snake on the block..
Just take a real look at him,,.
SovereignBeing 6 months ago
Irrelevant question + ad hominem attack + empty suggestion = worthless comment by @SovereignBeing
TimothyADonaghue 6 months ago
@TimothyADonaghue lol you left brain prisoners are so preDICtable... ! yawn....
i wasnt even talking to you.. but thanks for your attention...!
SovereignBeing 6 months ago
@SovereignBeing your comment is still idiotic, have a nice day
pretorious700 6 months ago
@TimothyADonaghue agreed
pretorious700 6 months ago
@SovereignBeing ron paul is a pimp! he's going to put baby powder in his hand and bitch slap you like a jerry springer show on crack... something like that :p
mstrephoenix1 6 months ago
@mstrephoenix1 cant wait.!
SovereignBeing 6 months ago
@KieranRicciDotCom Yes, I happen to agree with Stef on this. I'm not going to say something different if I don't believe something different. Stef's predictions are backed by historical examples, so it's not a slippery slope fallacy. At any rate, as far as is evident, Ron Paul is a minarchist, and that is an irrational position to hold.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@blapgat If you opt out of public education, u pay no education tax. Reduce government spending/influence over time and give more control locally. I see it as a step in the right direction.
UKLooney 6 months ago
@blapgat True, but you would be given the choice in whether you would like to participate or not.
UKLooney 6 months ago
@KieranRicciDotCom That may be, but nobody who is entrenched in statism will let him do that. If they do not get their cut of the pillaging of everyone else's pocketbooks, they will protest violently.
eulercircles 6 months ago
Euler, I've read about your circles from WS Jevons (I enjoy your user name :D).
Goodatconnect4 6 months ago
@Goodatconnect4 Thanks. You're only the second person to get it!
eulercircles 6 months ago
I feel awesome now!
Goodatconnect4 6 months ago
Eh, there's plenty of folks covering political stuff - Stef doesn't need to spend time on it. It's a good season to point out the breakdown of the political system.
To all those heavily invested in the political game - keep going. Perhaps you have a point. Those that are not invested - just remember that the more power the state has the more it needs and focusing on the state as a solution to anything legitimizes the state.
CaptainLazerus 6 months ago
@KieranRicciDotCom If Ron Paul is open to consistent voluntarism across the board, then he should abolish the government completely. A voluntary government is an oxymoron. But he will not be able to do this. Society is sick, and drunk on the coercion of others. The only way to change is to cure society of its delusions.
eulercircles 6 months ago
You’ve made your case Stefan; just like you did about 4 years ago. The message is the same, but I think your cosmetic approach this time comes across much better (unfortunately, that matters to many) – respectful, logical, and without any condescension. I think the old guard is feeling their mortality, and added to the enthusiasm of the youth, perhaps they are more hopeful than reason would suggest.
We will get through this somewhat unique political season, and your words will be remembered.
YJohannM 6 months ago
So Stefan, am I correct in thinking that you're a proponent of agorism (if I were to apply the most accurate one-word label I could).
damonthemoney93 6 months ago
freedomainradio is just not freedomainradio without....THE RED ROOM !!!
utmax85 6 months ago
@utmax85 I know :(
unclesamfatg 6 months ago
I think that both the problem and the solution to all the things in our economy and society is in the mirror. Its not about the external, politics to me is all about getting others to do things to change the world rather than than starting at the root, ourselves. instead of focusing on what he or she should do to fix the worlds problems, work on improving ones self, morals, ethics belief systems, how we live our lives, how we raise our kids, how we communicate with others, that sort of thing
tmwyt 6 months ago
Giving up political action is really hard! It's seems like if we just implemented libertarian policies (even a few), then we would much better off. If freedom is our goal as libertarians, we must live free first.. freedom from our own delusions (that the state is incorrigible and political action is unnecessary)
siftyfour 6 months ago
Paying tax is an evil endorsement too.
ComicPenius 6 months ago
@ComicPenius No, taxes are stolen from me by force. I have no choice. If I had a choice, and chose to pay, that would be an implicit endorsement. But if I had a choice, then taxation would not be theft and hence not evil. If people had that choice, they would not give their money to what they believed to be evil and corrupt.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles So you are saying, that given the choice to continue with forced taxation, or stopping it, you would choose the former because you did not endorsed the forced taxation in the first place?
And by doing nothing you would achieve what?
UKLooney 6 months ago
@UKLooney No, I didn't say that at all. The point is that I have no choice, and voting for Ron Paul is not going to change a thing. If Ron Paul were to ever abolish the income tax, what about other taxes? What about all the other instances of the initiation of force against non aggressors. The government has to do that on some level, or it would not be a government. So what I am saying is you either endorse evil or you do not. There is no in-between or "lesser" position.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles Do you think that if Ron Paul became President, it wouldn't change a thing? No progress would be made towards, say, getting the government out of your education system? Or is it that he just doesn't stand a chance of winning?
UKLooney 6 months ago
@UKLooney I think that he has good intentions (though misguided), but I don't think he will be able to change anything. There are too many people invested in the system who will not let their part be cut out. He will either be assassinated or there will be widespread rioting and violence. The whole thing could collapse into chaos, and it will be blamed on libertarians, since that will be the party in power when it happens. The system's already on the brink of collapse. He'd be a handy scapegoat.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles You infer that if he doesn't win, there won't be chaos. Which chaos would you pick if given a choice?
UKLooney 6 months ago
@UKLooney I didn't draw that inference. There may well end up being chaos if he doesn't win. I don't accept that I have to choose either. That's why I don't vote.
eulercircles 6 months ago
i can only just begin to thank you for what you do stef, your ideas and general philosophy are inspiring. so what do you believe is the best way (or even a productive way) to be 'an activist'. there is the education approach, i'd put you in the same boat alex jones, you educate audiences, provide information and even offer solutions. is that all there is to it? instead of being a revolutionary be an evolutionary? since the breakdown of cveitch do you think we need more 'productive' activism?
Everythingreallyisok 6 months ago
@Everythingreallyisok sorry if that barely made sense the character limit is annoying. and also, im against any kind of political action 'those who want power do not deserve it', cant change the mafia from the inside etc..
Everythingreallyisok 6 months ago
ok so what you're basically saying is don't give your money to Ron Paul, give it to Stefan Molyneux instead ! hehehe - clever ;) but i have a better idea ! GIVE YOUR MONEY TO MEEEEE ! ! !
g1981c 6 months ago
maybe he had to throw away his support with the Rand concept then maybe we have some hope - GOOD HEALTH will always be our guide into doing the right thing. i bet he doesn't even read comments so I trust he will keep following this Rand concept which will always be based on greed - selfishness and no lack of interest for the entire planet - just because you can doesn't mean you should
Judy101101 6 months ago
Not voting sounds cool but if there's a hardcore corrupt criminal attempting to gain power and you sit back and do nothing when there's a better alternative then you're going to be enslaved. On the other hand, maybe people need to be enslaved before they will care enough to want to do anything.
ComicPenius 6 months ago
@ComicPenius The system at its base is corrupt and evil. Voting for the lesser of two evils does not make it not evil.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles If you're waiting for it to be "not evil at all" then you're in for a long wait.
ComicPenius 6 months ago
@ComicPenius So, are you saying that expedience is a good excuse for endorsing evil?
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles Try not voting and not paying tax and see how far it gets you.
ComicPenius 6 months ago
@ComicPenius I know exactly where not paying taxes will get me, and you know it too. But what does this have to do with what I've said?
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles Um pretty much everything? So you don't pay tax? You don't endorse evil?
ComicPenius 6 months ago
@ComicPenius See other comment. I don't 'pay' tax. It's not voluntary. It is a crime against me, not a voluntary endorsement from me. This is specifically one of the evils I am talking about. Does a slave's beating from his master count as an endorsement of said beating?
eulercircles 6 months ago
@ComicPenius Oh, and any one attempting to gain political power is by definition a hardcore corrupt criminal. Hence no vote for me.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles So if one candidate is promising 100% taxation and another is promising 0% taxation, you would sit back and allow 100% taxation? IRS, Police etc. aren't going to leave you alone because you didn't vote.
I know it's cool to believe that you live outside of this petty paradigm but none of us do.
ComicPenius 6 months ago
"to be in politics was to wash one's hands in shit."
Pierre-Joseph Proudhon (1809-1865) Anarchist
rctube1958 6 months ago
Don't you think that compromise is good if it gives you better prospects of achieving your objectives of productively changing society?
UKLooney 6 months ago
One view is that politics is down stream from culture. That the media of Liberalism transfers to a cultural "reality" that sets the political agenda. That powerful, persuasive, growing media of Liberty and Freedom has the impact on culture and from there politic.
AnEducation 6 months ago
You're never going to convince the average person to divorce themselves from the political system. It's a paradigm that we have to work within. You can't dismantle it from the outside. I understand your theory but I don't think it's realistic at this point in time.
ComicPenius 6 months ago
What would you think about those artificial islands being built off the coast of Sand Diego? It seems like an interesting experiment to me.
freefallfalcon 6 months ago
@freefallfalcon They are still under the US government's control though right?
Hashishin13 6 months ago
@Hashishin13 i don't think so... i think the are 12 miles out so they are in 'international waters' or something.
freefallfalcon 6 months ago
@freefallfalcon I just did a search it looks like they are just building an airport, 100% in American waters. Can you give a name/link or something?
Hashishin13 6 months ago
@Hashishin13 Peter Thiel just donated money to the effort.. google 'Tech Billionaire Funding Creation of Artificial Islands'
freefallfalcon 6 months ago
@freefallfalcon OMG thanks for telling me, this is something I've been daydreaming about for a while now and their actually doing it! My biggest concern is this:
"the idea of a land free of government control isn't entirely new. In 1967, Italian engineer Giorgio Rosa funded the construction of a 400 square meter platform... The so called "sovereign" nation didn't last long. Italian government assumed control soon of the structure, and the Italian Navy used explosives to destroy the facility."
Hashishin13 6 months ago
@freefallfalcon Interesting, but I would think that governments would still try to claim jurisdiction over them.
shaurz 6 months ago
part 3
Lew Rockwell was an entrepenuer I think, wasn't Dave Casey? That guy you talk to who is in Mexico was an entrepenuer. ITs true that political action has got us libertarians next to nothing. Cannabis freedom is moving forward finally after decades of stagnation though. I basically agree with what your saying I just think that your timing is off, waiting until after the election would make you look better. This election will probably be it for both Ron Paul and libertarian political action.
Hashishin13 6 months ago
"The evidence is that political action has failed has failed has failed has failed has failed..."
Quoted for MF Truth.
It's is time for all minarchists to open their eyes and recognize the facts on this.
TemujinBC 6 months ago
part 2 It seems like everyone is scrounging for a base of libertarian suppoters but they all try to do it at the expense of others, which is quite ironic when you realize that is pretty much the name of the statist game. I think you should maybe remind people every once in a while, instead of spending soo much time on it, then maybe after if he loses THEN spend a lot of time on it when defeat is fresh in their minds, and point out that you predicted it all along.
Hashishin13 6 months ago
@Hashishin13 It's not about Ron Paul it's about government in general.
itchcitizen2 6 months ago
@itchcitizen2 Hashishin13 would have known that if he/she actually spent some time listening to all Stef has to say about it and thinking before setting fingers to keyboard. Some people will just never learn.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles some people will be voting again..for the same shit in a different shape. not me!
itchcitizen2 6 months ago
@itchcitizen2 Me neither. I've never voted and never will.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles Voting costs you nothing, and any arguement about "lending credibility/consent to the gov" is rendered moot by the fact that the government will do what it likes with or without your consent. I voted once before I became a libertarian and if there was a libertarian running here in canada I might vote for them, but theres really no point here, we are surrounded by socialists who more then just border on communistic ideals.
Hashishin13 6 months ago
@Hashishin13 It would cost me my integrity, and that is something I'd like to hang on to. Thank you very much.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@Hashishin13 Wait ... let me get this straight ... you say that the government does what it likes with or without my consent? If that's so, what's the point in voting then?
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles It does what it likes if Ron Paul loses. Don't be a smart ass you know what I ment.
Hashishin13 6 months ago
@Hashishin13 It does what it likes regardless.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles none, check out stefs video "the truth about voting"
tmwyt 6 months ago
@tmwyt I've seen this video and agree with it. This is what I've been saying. Was your recommendation meant for someone else? Even still, I think I will watch that video again. Thanks.
eulercircles 6 months ago
@eulercircles How's not voting working out for you?
ComicPenius 6 months ago
@ComicPenius Quite well. I can sleep well at night knowing that I haven't endorsed evil. How's voting working out for you?
eulercircles 6 months ago