This is all assumed under an idea of an "all at one time, all at one event, all at one event" eschaology. Full Preterism is Dispensationalism in reverse. The Dispensationalist has it "wholly future". The FP has is "all past". They are BOTH exactly alike. Two extremes. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
@samuelmfrost Sam, so nice to hear from you. Please tell what is that middle that leave prophecy unfulfilled and results in a "limbo" state for eschatology, which by definition is the "end" or fulfillment of something. If we have something in the "middle" of the end, we don't have an end but a "middle." Where is the "middletology" of the Bible, which is nothing but the "already but not yet." It sounds good, is popular with the masses, but is illogical and is itself extreme!
So who is THE false prophet of the book of Revelation?
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
A GENERAL STATEMENT TO NO ONE PERSON IN PARTICULAR BUT ALL >>> The Most High deals with generations the way he will without any mans permision or confirmation as we learn from Eccl. 3:15 - "What is happening now has happened before, and what will happen in the future has happened before, because God makes the same things happen over and over again". (NLT) and you can read that passage in about 10 or more translations and they all give clarity .... shalom
@jerryjamify Regarding the matter of history repeating itself, are you open to the recreation of the physical world? Are you open to a second Egyptian bondage and deliverance through the Red Sea? Are you opend to a second giving ot the Law of Moses? Are you open to a second coming of Jesus in the flesh to die for the sins of the world? Are you open to history (prophecy) repeating itself without end? Where does it stop?
@AllThingsFulfilled It stops when god's rule is complete in all mankind. The sacrifice of Jesus and the forgiveness of sin was completed at calvery. But the history of mankids rule is still repeting itself, just look at the world today, compare the American empire to the the Roman Empire, the British empire, All great empires rise and fall because the heart of making has not been changed. God is still building up and tearing down great and small nations doing his work in mankind as a whole.
@jerryjamify Are you open to Jesus coming and dying again for the sins of the world in order to save us? That would be preterist fulfillment of the cross and a repetition of history. . Only problem is, it would contradict, the "hapax" once for all time death of Christ and made the "second" coming of parousia, the double-parousia, etc. Not a very pretty sight logically speaking.
"Armageddon" is not about a future battle! It is about Jesus crucifixion. "Wormwood" is not a meteor but actually describes the eventual destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. Why? because Jeremiah mentions the same word during and before the babylonians destroyed the 1st temple - Jeremiah 23:15,Lamentations 3:15,Lamentations 3:19 and even Amos 5:7! Please read through my blog to understand my comments.
Did you read my answer. For Christians satan ceased to exist in the first century. He was defeated on the cross and done away with in the destruction of Israel.
Now as for faith. I believe the prophecies as they read and as they are tied to the first century. Christ basically said few would accept the fact of his return. I accept it, both on the evidence of history and by faith. The spiritual realm is infinitely superior to the physical.
You got the testamens right. But how about accepting this fact.
The NT tells about the things that were happening to and around people who lived in the first century. It also repeatedly says such and such was the fulfilment of a certain OT scripture. Then the NT has warnings directed to the people around Christ and who knew his apostles. All who were living then. The elements were to burn and Peter tells them they were looking forward to that and told them to get ready.
Your imagination is working over time. Israel becoming a nation in 1948 is fulfilment of OT prophecies? Wow! That is a good one. The NT says nothing about that.
All OT prophecies were fulfilled way back.
The restoration of Israel always was conditioned upon their repentance.
So you are not satisfied with having Jeus in your heart. You want him to come down and do it over again?
The first three verses and several others in the Book of Revelation tie the fulfilment of it's message to seven literal First Century Churches.
Jesus seemed to wonder if he would find any faith when he returned.
That book, if taken in it's first century context and if the NT is kept in context, then Jesus is ruling over everything in the now. He is setting down with God on their throne.
2 Tim 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: (Past tense No more death!)
You have to be wicked and die to get to hell. The NT repeatedly says we have eternal life. The term "Hell" is tied to the grave. Are all the godly dead Christians still in their graves? I believe Jesus had the keys to both and for godly Christians there is no more hell.
Luke 18:7 and 8 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
He evidently found very little. He did avenge his elect as he destroyed their enemies while he saved those who had listened to him and left. Unbelief still blinds people to the truth.
@MrPeaceKey He has not come back yet, its only been 2 days since that was written so its not like that was very long ago . . . ur ignoring so many prophecies its sad
@MrPeaceKey Hell gets thrown into the lake of fire, 2 Tim 1:10 is the 1st coming when He died on the cross, so lemme rephrase the question, is satan in the lake of fire or not? some prophecies were fulfilled but remember that one of the Bibles prophecies was fulfilled in 1948, Israel became a nation again. And yes it says the times will become like the time of Noah, complete wickedness throughout the world.
@MrPeaceKey OT prophesies all fulfilled? hahahahah ur Histerical ive already given u quite a few that havnt been. Zephaniah 1:18, that hasnt happened yet. . . i still want u to explain this one ahhaha
@MrPeaceKey Read Zechariah14:4-5 THe mountain splitting open from east to west and the valley being created and then fleeing through the valley, thats sounds pretty literal. and if u read Micah 1:3-4 and Zech 4:7 it makes it even more clear that its literal. and Zechariah 14:8 with the waters is literal to read Ezekiel 47:1-10. these 2 things have not happened yet.
Again your imagination is at work, but I will have to admit you are not alone.
Mountains splitting water running out through a country, valleys filling with blood, huge beasts with horns and fire coming out of their mouths, all make for bad dreams.
Read the last few verses of Malachi. It promises a blessing but contains an "if." (lest)
John the Baptist basically says they do not get the blessing.
@MrPeaceKey I dont think u understand this but the beasts and horns are explained away in revelation as to what there meanings are ha. mountains splitting is definitely explained to as something thats physical if u read the references with a positive attidude. same with the water, I dont think u have enough faith in Gods capabilities personally, a lack of faith. sad day. . .
Have you read Luke 18:7&8? Do you think what happened in 70 AD and what happened to Israel for the next 200 plus years was at all important relative to fulfilled prophecy?
Jesus expected that few would believe he had returned. I have faith enough to accept his words and the witness of history. In contrast - You, like most Christians, deny his 2nd coming.
What did Christ do to the devil? What does the bible say?
Is what it says to be considered? Just who was the enemy of Christ in the first century? Who was it that he was pointing to - the devil left and then came back with his friends? . Did Christ destroy the devil?
This "devil made me do it" is a wicked way of looking at it.
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Who was Peter speaking to? Is that important to you? Those people had a better look at prophecy.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that "ye" (YOU) look for such things, be diligent that ye (YOU) may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
@MrPeaceKey I thought i already explained this to you? No man knows the day of His coming, not the angels, nor the Son, but the Father who is in heaven. . . Its spoken in that context because they dont know when, they dont know WHEN. . . its for alarm so they would stay prepared. If all things were fulfilled then the majority of the bible should be discarded and considered useless...
Hello there! If Christ's words of warning to people living 2000 years ago prepared them for a coming terrible judgment and those who took heed were saved, then that is a tremendous witness for Christianity.
If they did not even know something terrible was coming and forgot about it only because they did not know the day or the hour then they had a problem.
History clearly tells us it did happen, but it was around 40 years later.
If you read Luke 21:20-22, and verse 32 correctly, you will know it has happened. Until you can produce people who are yet alive from the first century generation, there is no possible way the event can be future.
the generation in which the signs will be fulfilled, thats the context u cant just skip 10 verses read the whole context. . . who do u think the anti christ was?
Here is what we know about the Antichrist. The Bible says he had already come and it is by his presence in the first century, they knew that the last hour had arrived. (1 John 2:18-19). The mystery of iniquity was already at work, 2 Thess. 2:4-7). You are reading into the context by saying the generation in which the signs will be fulfilled. Why overlook the generation who heard Christ. That is what he meant by "this generation."
@AllThingsFulfilled Read 2 Thess 2:2. . . and then 1 John just says theres many antichrists now, and they heard the antichrist will come eventually .. and if u wanna take last hour literally then it all went down an hour after this was written. . which means its really figurative, used as a devise for warning and alarm. . .
@MrPeaceKey I dont care about some guys testimony on y he is not a christian, if u read the bible and dont excuse the prophesies its obvious that it hasnt happend yet, no one knew the time or an hour, its only been 2 days since Christs death or around there. did u know that?
The first three verses of Revelation tie everything said prophetically in that book to the first century as does several others and especially the last chapter. (He did say things about the ongoing reign of his kingdom.) He was coming soon and he said it emphatically, "behold!" He also said he was making ewverytrhing new and then adds it is done, all in a first century context and in keeping with the introduction and the ending.
Rev 9:15 1/3 of the earth wiped out by 4 angels, and another thing i would like to point out is this, Revelation 14:8 " fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality" SO babylon is a nation of sin, and idolatry welcoming any god into the nation except the one true living God. What nation does that sound like today ? ? and who do u think the Anti Christ was?
@MrPeaceKey hahahahah imagination? or maybe just reading the scriptures the way they should be read? haha . . it doesnt take much imagination honestly, u just have to read the next verse and u come up with my "imaginative answer" of course when u harden ur heart and dont wanna hear the truth, it doesnt help, u have to be open, i cant argue with ur "beliefs" i can give u all the facts u want but its not gunna help because u dont wanna believe differently. . .
they asked Him what it was going to be like in matthew 24, and no imagination at all needed, read all 3 of those verses on and it describes the transfiguration, Just like u can read mathew 24, mark 13, and Luke 21 and get the same 3 general things except Luke is more explanatory. Just like the parable of the sower is in all 3 of them aswell, does that give me an imagination? i dont think so it just makes u look like ur grasping for straws that dont exist, which is alot more imagitive i must say.
"Tell us, when will these things be? And what is the sign of "thy coming", and of the termination of the age? " Matt 24
It says "when" as a question. These things are tied to his coming in power.
That answer to "when" puts it way beyond the transfiguration. He did not come in his kingdom during the transfiguration. If you see him coming in power then it is your imagination. Most all scholars admit he did come in power in the destruction of the Temple.
See to it that no one misleads you. verse 5. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am Christ,'and will mislead many. and then verse 8BUt all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.verse 15 the abomination of desolation? when did that take place? it hasnt yet. and then verse 21. there will be a tribulation , such as has not occured since the beginnin of the world until now, nor ever shall. There was worse events then 70ad.
Does that matter to you? Can you honestly forget just who had just ask the question?
He said to them 2000 years ago that when "they" see that Abomination that had been spoken of by Daniel, to get out of there. Under line the word "They" and under line the words "when you see " in your bible."
A wicked priest got rid of the old good priests and took over the temple, then the Romans destroyed that temple - all in keeping with Christ's words.
Past tense. First century. Newness is tied to the heart of man though their being born for above. We are new creatures in Christ. We are in his kingdom. An earthly kingdom would be anticlimatic. He humbeled himself 2000 years ago and finished his work.
Rev 21:5 and 6 .. he ... said, Behold, I make all things new. ... Write: for these words are true and faithful. ..he said .. "It is done". ...I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
Start with Matthew 16:28, then Mark 9:1 and then go to Luke 9:27.
These verses are only a small portion. In John 3 Christ teaches us we are to both see and then enter Christ's kingdom. He was not just giving Nicodemus a suggestion. He said "you must!"
The first three verses of Revelation, the last chapter, etc, etc.
so i read all of that very carefully and please be opened minded to this. . . Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Notice He says "some of you" and then the next verse for all these passages follows with "6 days later" or "8 days later" Jesus was talking about His transfiguration which only SOME of them saw. ( Peter, John, and James ) and in John 3 You must believe to enter the kingdom of God, thats a common salvation lesson. If yu die in belief, u will enter the kingdom of God ( thief on the cross )
@MrPeaceKey IT fits all of them and " some will be living, and see the kingdom of God, only 3 saw it the others didnt, thats SOME LIVING. its not meaningless a all, u just want it to be cause it dosnt help ur disproven theory
@MrPeaceKey Christ's first coming conquered death and sin, because of that we can overcome it, and biblically He has to come back and reign, ( a physical reign on earth ) the Mount of Olives and the water is indeed literal, if u read it u can tell, by how vividly it is explained if u wanna say that nothing is literal, then when Jesus said He died on the cross He coulda been joking right, and when He said sin was bad He was probably just being sarcastic right? thats ur logic
Hebrews 10:12 is the 1st i repeat 1st coming, when He died for our sins, that is the 1st coming..... hence y it says offered one sacrifice for sins, like as in on the crossssss, if u take that verse out of context so easily then go figure how people can come up with doctrines like preterism and calvinism . . .
(Joh 19:28) After this, Jesus knowing that "all things were now accomplished," that the scripture might be fulfilled... (Joh 4:34) .. My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, "and to finish his work." (Luk 18:31) ... we go up to Jerusalem, and "all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished." (Col 2:15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, "triumphing over" them in it.
all of ur arguments go against His prophecies and the bible itself, u are taking scriptures out of context and disregarding others, and idc what the population was, it doesnt change the fact tht the HOLOCAUST was way more severe for 1 and stallon was way worse as well. so ur points again mean nothing
It does not seem to matter to you that Jesus spoke directly to people in the first century and said that some of them would be alive when he returned. All of your arguments go against his words. They go against every time statement in the NT. We can argue about the binding of satan and the 1000 years, etc. However, if the bible is to maintain its integrity Christ has to be here in the now saving and delivering people.
You evidently do not accept the fact that Christians suffered under both the Jews and Nero. Read the book of Acts. Have you read it? Did Jerusalem cease to exist in the first and 2nd century. Was the nation of Israel completly removed from the map for nearly 300 years. Was it are renamed Palistine as a put down of the Jews by Rome? Do know that the Philistines were Israel's enemies?
@MrPeaceKey ya and Israel became a nation again in 1948, it still didnt compare to the holocaust so ur point is invalid. and satan when he is cast into hell, will never tempt again because he is not omni present he can not be in multiple places at once so when he is in helll he will stay there and tempt no more
when sin entered the earth the perfection slowly started to and is still degrading, thats y its gunna pass away, He is gunna make all things new and perfect, The new heaven and the NEW earth, and the old will pass away. . . read ur bible
and the tribulation is supposed to be worse than any other tribulation that has ever occured the bible is very specific about that, yet Rome did not compare to Hitler or Stallon, so history proves u wrong as well
The population of the world in the first century makes 1.2million people a huge number for that time. At no time have 3 factions in a civil war produced such terrible things. They ate their own children. All in a walled city, not a country.
Putting Christ's return off into the indefinite future has caused the Christian community to act as if they get involved in their communities and vote they are going against prophecy and hindering the return of Christ. It is all going to burn??
You think that telling people back then they would see those things happen was really just an open ended warning? You think a lie is OK?
Untold numbers of people think you are into doing a cover up. They say Christ said he was coming right back, while many of those people were still living, but Christians have created a myth out of whole clothe to cover up their fantasy based religion.
Many people read the same bible you do and hear your approach and laugh.
Is having numbers of stars falling from heaven and hitting the earth more symbolic then the probability of Christ standing on the Mt of Olives as being symbolic?
Has anyone ever seen horsemen riding on horses in the air, or feiry swords coming out of a persons mouth? Or has anyone ever seen a huge beast with a huge woman riding on it's back?
Was God ever seen physically riding on and in clouds during OT times.
We have a hard time proving to any skeptic there is a Go, yet we have infinite amouns of evidence. The numerous NT time statements are ignored and replaced with guesses and speculation. At hand quickly, soon, last days, last hour, end of the world, world with out end, you will see, when you see the abomination of desolation, on and on...
@MrPeaceKey We know that the mount of Olives hasnt been split in two because well its not, thats accesible info that anyone can find, when God says He will destroy all the inhabitants of earth thats symbolic of actually destroying everyone on earth, which means its literal, when He says He will send satan in the lake of fire forever and ever thats literal too.
God only knows how many have been turned off because we do not accept the bible as it reads. History backs up my position. Few Christians have ever even heard heard of Josephus. They know little about the persecution of the Church by both the Jews and Rome. The whole nation of Israel went crazy and thought they could whip Rome/ The devil had left during Christ's ministry, but he brought back his friends.
@MrPeaceKey Ur using History to back u up and im using the bible, Luke 21:12-24 explains Rome and the persecution that had to take place b4 christ could come back... THe devil never left during Christs ministry, satan tempted Christ, its sad how much u dont pay attention to scripture and how u say everything is symbolic and not literal. . . let me paint u a picture of the mount of olives
... faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. Rom 10:17b-18
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Rom 16:26
@MrPeaceKey thts good, but still u have a lot more problems with ur doctrine and u cant prove preterism because of Isaiah 11, Zechariah 14, Rev 20, Rev 21 etc, theres to many prophecies tht still needa take place
I doubt we will ever know everything that has happend in the past, yet we seem to think that because we have never heard of something we perceive of as not happening according to prophecy we speculate and say it never did happen. There are a lot of symbolic images in both the OT and NT. There were animals with horns in both that no one has ever seen. We accept them as being tied to nations in the OT, but in the NT we just ignore the thought that symbols are not all literal.
@MrPeaceKey last hour, quickly, soon, last days, etc all those things were said so people would be prepared because no one knows the time or the hour..... its a simple biblical concept....
Still John the Baptist, Jesus, and the NT in general gave numerous warnings - all aimed, (not specifying a certain day or hour,) at the "age" they were living in.
Thier words of warning were directed to the people who they were either with, or were writing to. It is peculiar how is is so hard for some to see that the prophetical messages of the NT was to, for and about the people living then and details things they had seen were then seeing and would see shortly and were tied to OT prophecy.
Do you think Christians should vote? Many old time dispensationlists taught agaist it.
Is Christ coming back for a victorious Church? Or is he coming back to save a defeated one? His Church was floushing untill Rome set out to kill them all for entertainment. The gates of hell are to crumble before the Church, but we have to believe that is our Job. He finished his earthly ministry, the ball is in our court. 2/3rds of the Jews are to die so Jesus will come back?
Rev 20:10 satan will be done away with fo ever and ever.... and i wanna see the passage where it says the gospel was preached throughout all the nations, if u have that reference
.. ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you.. Col 1:5b-6
... be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; Col 1:23
If you will check the last chapters of Revelation you will see that sinners are not present in Christ's kingdom. It is the higway of holiness spoken of in the OT, but outside are wicked people. For Christians satan is bound. Christ put him down, crushed him under his feet. This is directly tied to the kingdom that believers both see and enter, it is not for the wicked. St John 3. Christ is king, he defeated the devil.
There is no mention of chips in the bible. There was a one world Gov in the 1st century. Did you know that Christians built several Colleges in the late 1700s and by the very end of the 1700s those colleges were no longer Christian and the students were burning books and filthy laungauge was in on their campuses? The Christians who attended had went underground and had secret clubs and only a handfull were in them.
Earth quakes? The people who study earth quakes have said for years that, yes, there are increases on occassion and this is just an ordiary cycle. They deny there are any more now then there have been for thousands of years. The JWs took some statements out of context years ago and taught that there has been a dramatic increase in earth quakes. Scientists have repeatedly denied that, but evangelicals accepted the JWs word over scientists.
The 1000 years if investigagted is tied to the reign of martyrs with Christ. There are several other places in the bible where the same term of 1000 is used and none of them mean an exact number but point to an unlimited time.
In Christ we have a peace that passes all understanding.
Jewish history mentions a connection of the terms heaven and earth with the inner and outer court. The enter being associated with heaven the outer being associated with this earthly realm.
@MrPeaceKey Zepheniah 1:18 For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terriftying one, Of ALLLLLL the INHABITANTS of the Earth. . . everyone no one will be left. . . This indicates that indeed the old earth will be destroyed... The new earth is a place of perfection, and look around far from perfection so were not on the new earth. . . now we have 2 options left the millenial kingdom or before the millenial kingdom . . .
To turn our backs on the first and second century context of Christ's words undermines the credibility of the bible and this means we have no real basis for Christianity other then it being a myth. Many people today have computers and the word is getting around that Christ was to have returned soon after he left and he did not do it. I know better. Why? because I accept the bible as it reads and I accept the witness of history.
@MrPeaceKey UNFORTUNATELY people get caught up into the teachings of men, and false doctrines, and take things outta context, in Zechariah 14 when it says the Mount of Olives will be split in half, it literally means that, and when water will pour out of it to the east and west, it really means that. . . so u gotta take the whole bible into the context and it teaches that it HASNT happend yet.
The Mount of Olives is symbolic of the division between the Mosaic and the Body of Christ. Out of the Church flows living water. Yes, this is speculation, but so is the thought that OT prophecy about that Mountain is to be accepted as litteral.
It becomes rediculous to make the terms of every prophetical utterance mean something physical or literal. Again, how many falling stars can the earth survive. 1000s of earths are not as big as a star.
@MrPeaceKey and again ur forgetting Jesus didnt even know the time or the hour, which is y it was in tht context, so they would be prepared if it wassssssss, i dont know how much i need to stress that, 1000 years is like a day and a day is like 1000 years. dont forget that. . . so forget the context, its called precations, and lets look towards the prophesies that must be fulfilled 1st, btw have u noticed all the recent earth quakes?
@MrPeaceKey have u noticed how the dollar bill has lost its power? that the government is gunna be pushing for a 1 world currency? that theres a chip that can be conviently put into ur forehead or right hand? that this worlds lawlessness is increasing drastically? sounds to me like the stages are being set . . . could happen soon or it could be in another generation but notice all the signs?
@MrPeaceKey If we were currently in the millenial kingdom, 1 christ would be reigning, 2 perfect people would be walking around, 3 lions would not eat lambs, snakes would not bite people etc. 3 the anti christ would have had to come to power and the reign would bring forth the most terrifying tribulation ever . . . nero doesnt fit, 4. the mark of the beast, there has never been a mark on the right hand or forehead. therefore the abomination of desolation hasnt happened.
Jesus in Matthew tells us we are to be as perfect as God is. Perfection in God's dictionary has to do with moral perfection. That has to do with us doing our best, it is not about demanding the impossible from us.
@MrPeaceKey So these obvious factors prove tht ur interpritations are flawed regardless of whatever u try to say to justify ur beliefs. . . Unless u take the bible for what it is, i dunno wat to tell u
As far as Christs kingdom goes, we are either in it or we are on the outside looking in. he said it was in their midst 2000 years back. Read the book.
@MrPeaceKey of course Christ is in you cause of the crusifixion, the Holy Spirit, um thanks to His FIRST COMING, I read the verses and those things have definitely not been fulfilled yet, and i think ur missing one big concept about God. . . Read 2 Peter 3:7-18 . . . a few verses u need to focus on are verses 8-10, 15, and 16 i think 16s a big one to remember. =)
Check the context in Peter. Who was he talking to?
He was warning people who lived then about somthing the would see happen.
That is the context. To take the warnings of the NT which were written to people who lived 2000 years back and was warning them about things they would have to go through and say it did not happen then is your choice, not mine.
now another verse U SHOULD REALLY TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION is Matthew 24:36 Its a really good verse u should read it sometime, it shows us how the people writting the bible, even the Son of God, Jesus doesnt even know when the day of the Lord is, His second coming, so stop acting like u do cause it hasnt happend.... Either ur saying tons of scriptures are lying like Rev 20, Luke 21, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Isaiah 11, Zechariah 14, revelations 1:7 etc etc etc orrr u just havnt read those ones
Some of you will not taste death untill you see, etc.
He also refered to the Abomination that Daniel talked about and said when you see it, etc.
The word "You" in those passages ties what he was saying to the people he was talking to. They were to see the Abomination of desolation. That is the context.
He told them, way back there, what they must do when they saw it.
I am accepting Christ's words as they are written.
He did say he did not know the day nor the hour. That is true.
But did he know what generation? Or did he know the age those things were to happen?
Many prophecy experts who sell many books teach that Christ and his apostles were mistaken. They admit that the NT clearly teaches the soon return of Christ.
@MrPeaceKey ahhh the soon return of Christ, hmmm, a thousand years is like a day, and guess wat else. . . teaching as if the end times were near would be logical since they did not know the time or the hour, so they would be prepared. saying that His coming has already happened however is not logical for this earth would have passed away long ago and everyone u see would be perfect people with His name on there foreheads
@IamNOTlikeUnymore You seem to very much into present day views of prophecy. This world is never to end. That age came to an end 2000 years back. Use a concordance and look up these terms. last days last times end of the world at hand this generation soon elements Check the context and the Greek
@IamNOTlikeUnymore Luke 21:12-24 would explain all ur events that happened, outside of the endtimes, the end times events are currently being and will still be fulfilled in the future, go play with a rattlesnake and tell me how tht goes
I mentioned this in an other post. Read the next verse.
You seem to be unable to accept the first three verses of the book and the fact it was written to 7 churches that existed in the first century. Were they literal physical churches or would you have them be symbolic and then make the huge women on an huge beast be literal? There is also a curse associated with changing its message.
@MrPeaceKey pareleusontai parelthOsin this is for Matthew 24:35 and it has the same meaning as the word in Rev 21:1 so it would appear tht this earth would be no more, nada. AND ANOTHER POINT I WOULD LOVE TO MAKE - was the gospel preached to all nations by 70AD ? mark 13:10... and then Mark 13:19 says that tribulation will never be greater b4 or after. . . guess what Stallon and Hitler were kinda worse than Nero
Was there a battle between 3 religious factions to the death inside the walls of a city where 1.2 million people died and then their temple, city and nation all ceased to exist? No temple for 2000 years. For 300 years no Jews were allowed to worship in Jerusalem.
There religious scrolls were banned. I am guessing at some of this, but I am close.
Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the LORD's wrath. In the fire of his jealousy the whole world will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live in the earth."
It would do you good if you found the scriptures that tell us the world has been established for ever. Then do not forget God looked over his creation and said it was very good. In one place he said he did no create the world in vain, but created it to be inhabited.
If it had to be destroyed then that means the devil,and evil won.
A world, a land a nation, a system, or a Babylon were all destroyed in the 1st century.
Ya He said it was good when it was perfect, but the fall of man kinda messed that one up,
Zephaniah 1:18 = all inhabitants of earth consumed , not just a nation, a sytem, or a babylon. . . and remember Snakes still bite, mount of Olives still in one piece, satan still tempts people, etc prophecies still need to be fulfilled... Luke 21:20 Israel is supposed to be destroyed, Her desolation is at hand ( has to happen b4 the end times ) and it already did
I know Christ as my savior. He is with me and in me and this was a promise he gave to his followers 2000 years ago.
How many stars can fall to this earth? The OT tells us they fell way before Christ was born. The OT tells us God came in a cloud or on one in the OT but no one saw it happen, but an army fulfilled that prophecy. You must keep it in context.
Read the first 3 verses of Revelaion and the last chapter and accept them. (Context!)
If I understand right the 1000 years are viewed as being an earthly eutopia by most people. I do not see that in the context. In those passages it appears to be dealing with people who are reigning with Christ after sufering martyrdom.
Yes, I do believe Christ came back after having prepared a place for his people, all in the first century. The day of Pentecost is tied to his return, as was the destruction of, the temple, then the end of Israel as a nation.
That is what they call people who believe like I do. However, there are many kinds of Preterists. Many of them only choose some parts of the Preterist position. Others try to figure out everything and end up making some weird claims. There is a lot about the book of Revelation I do not understand. I try to stick with the things that are very obvious.
I believe there is but one kingdom, not one for God and one for Christ and one on earth, etc.
His kingdom is in his people, in their heart. We are lively stones gathered together as one building. The focuse on the earthly, the physical, as being the goal is not supported by scripture.
That was the expectation of the Jews and it appears to me Jesus tried over and over to get them to look in their heart and to expect that he and his Father would take up their residence with and in those who obeyed him.
He told his desciples he would eat and drink with them in his kingdom and they did eat and drink with him again before he was taken up the last time.
@MrPeaceKey Isaiah 11:1-10 seems pretty physical. and if u read Zehariah 14:1-8 it explains things that havnt happened yet like the mountain of Olives being split in two. And the mark of the beast has never been given out yet, and anti christ comes before the 2nd coming. so wat about those events tht hav to take place and hvnt?
You are saying they did not come to pass. I have not said that.
Do you know anything about the writings about the first century by Josephus? He was a Jew, not a Christian, yet much of his history details the fulfillment of some of Christ's prophecies. He lived during that time.
Yes, those verses do appear to be speaking of physical happenings, however, the fulfilment of OT prophecies show that many of those things were figurative.
There were already many anti Christs on the scene in the first century and John says that was a sign it was the last hour, or something to that effect.
theres always gunna be anti-christs because satan knows not the time or the hour, so he always has someone ready just incase. However the Legit anti-christ has not come to power yet. As for the millenial kingdom it is indeed physical reign on earth, and in that time satan will be locked up therefore he cannot tempt the nations(rev 20:3)and Rev 20:6 shows how they will reign with Christ,its literal,Christ will come down and Every Eye will see Him. and that has not happened yet
You are in the main stream position, but I cannot tie what you are saying to the bible.
The NT uses words like these, last hour, at hand, last days, soon quickly, etc. Most are tieing what they are seeing to their day. The mention of the anti christ is tied with the las time or the last hour. The passage clearly states that because there were many anti christs back then it was proof they were living in the last hour. Are you familiar with that passage?
@MrPeaceKey ya i have and i notticed tht u like to look at individual verses and not take the entirety of the passage, just like calvinists and also logically 70ad was almost 2000 years ago so either we are on the new earth or we are on the old one and Jesus hasnt come back a 2nd time... biblically Jesus hasnt come back, i am not speculating i am giving u biblical fact, u cant ignore passages in the bible my freind
Rev 6 :12 what were suns moons and stars for. and if they are removed what day, what month, what year is it
what season is it to plant wheat & barley when do you harvest or proclaim the Holy feasts CHRIST FULFILLED ALL THESE THINGS we don't need a Lamb for JESUS IS THE LAMB and all other feast LOOK to Feast
if this happens in such a early part of the book what is the rest of the REVELATION
the Fallen Temple is the WHORE for she was a den of Thieves like the trade ships of Tarshish
Preterists vs. partial-preterists. Dispensational futurists vs. partial-preterists. Preterists vs. dispensational futurists. No wonder why Christ said there would be 'false prophets' (Mt.24:11,24) speaking fallacy about His 2nd Advent and the end of the age/world. Indeed, upon Chirst's return, there will be no one left alive on this planet (Rev.19:17-18; Lk.17:37).
People are so quick to label others false prophets that they make irrational arguments. The text is taken out of context. Matthew 24:11, 24, describes false prophets who deceived people relative to Jesus' coming in connection with the destruction of Jerusalem. Stay with the context and read it as though you were sitting in the audience with Christ, and it ought to click. Then take note of verse 34. Assuredly I say to you, this generation will by no means pass till all these things take place.
@AllThingsFulfilled "Stay with the context and read it as though you were sitting in the audience with Christ..."
Indeed. The above is required in order to understand the proper context. Before doing this, I was a pre-millennial dispensationalist. The latter requires vast amounts of elaborate and frankly silly conspiracy theories in order to maintain a belief in it.
Romans 8:22 "We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODIES. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently." Now read Luke 21:28, 1Cor 15:52
What the passage from Romans 8 shows is that even though the Roman church was spiritually raised in Christ (Romans 6:2-12, Romans 8:10) and even though they lived by the Spirit that their PHYSICAL bodies needed to be redeemed. In fact, the passaged says that THE ENTIRE CREATION (Rom 8:21) was going to be redeemed. Jesus said this redemption was going to be seen by that generation (Luke 21:28, 32). This is why it is the new heavens and the new earth; redeemed creation and bodies are part of it
This new heaven and earth that replaced the one that fled away (Rev 20:11) at the AD 70 judgment/resurrection means indeed that "ALL things are being made new" (Rev 21:5, Col 3:10) which means Jerusalem was being "made new". With earthly Jerusalem judged in wrath, the heavenly Jerusalem is now unquestionably established as the house of God (Eph 2:19-22, Heb 3:6, 1Pet 2:4-5). When the Temple falls in Rev 11:18, IT IS THEN that the dead are judged. Verse 19 shows new dwelling with man.
The temple that fell per Rev. 11:8, is the Old Jerusalem temple of A.D. 70. It occurs at the 7th trumpet blast which fulfills the mystery of God, Rev. 10:7, and thus equates with Matt. 24:31, 1 Cor. 15:52, 1 Thess. 4:17; Rev. 11;15. We can only have one "last trumpet." All happened before that generation passed away as you acknowledge per the Lukan text. That covers Romans 8 as well. Nothing was finished till 70 A.D.
Rev.11:8, it seems, is speaking about the 'two witnesses', not the Jerusalem temple. Furthermore, the 'temple' mentioned in Rev.11:1,2 doesn't seem to mean the Jerusalem temple either. Rather, if John and Paul are in agreement, which I believe they are, then the 'temple' (naos) are believers in Jesus. Paul uses the same word to describe us in 1Cor.3:16, and 2Cor.6;16. The 'temple' spoken of does not refer to the Jerusalem temple as it had ceased to have any meaning after the crucifixion.
You are correct that the context of Rev. 11:8 is the two witnesses. That's not the point. It's what is said "about" them. Note: "And their dead bodies, [i.e. two witnesses] will lie in the street of the great city, [thus, at this point], the text describes what happens two them]; Now the great city is described as the place where the Lord was crucified, [Jerusalem]. Again on the temple, I agree, Rev. 11:1; but it is the "court" outside the temple, Rev. 11:2, which refers to the Jewish temple.
Then who are the 'two witness'? I believe this passage is highly symbolic and has absolutely nothing to do with literal Jerusalem. Yes, the city at the time of Christ's crucifixion can logically be equated with 'Sodom' and 'Egypt', but that is not the point either. The time period of 1,260 days (v.2,3) is very important as well, as it is given 7 times in the apocalyptic books of Daniel and Revelation. What does this time period mean to the preterist?
For the sake of the argument, who the two witnesses are, is irrelevant. The issue is when the event happened. When it does, we know their testimony would be "finished." The point is John is writing after the crucifixion and calls it Sodom and Egypt. So does Paul, Gal. 4:25-26. The 1260 days ends when it is destroyed. It is destroyed in 70 AD, Mt. 24:34; Lk. 21:20-24. Therefore, the "symbolical" 1260 days ended at that time. Otherwise, your logic breaks down and contradictions multiply.
To say that the 'two witnesses' are irrelevant is doing great violence to the text. We are meant to know and understand who the 'witnesses' are. More importantly, however, is to be able to properly determine the time prophecies of the 1,260 days. I deny the dispensational/futurist view that the 'witnesses' are literal human beings/prophets. But the preterist position is equally erroneous! Failure to exegete these texts properly results in great deception.
It is incorrect to say that the Jerusalem temple had ceased to have any meaning after the crucifixion. Remember, Christ said, not one jot or tittle could pass from the Law till all were fulfilled/till heaven and earth passed. The temple yet stood and is connected with Christ's prophecy of the parousia, Mt. 24:3. Moreover, Hebrews 8:9, says the temple yet had authority until the way into the Most Holy place was complete. Heb. 9:8-9. Else, Christ could have been a priest on earth, Heb. 7:11; 8:4.
Mt.24 is equating two separate and distinct events. The disciples asked Jesus two question in v.3. In His ingenious way, Jesus gives us examples of His 2nd Advent and the temple destruction. Heb.8:2 tells us this 'temple' is the heavenly one which is equated to the one on earth. And that the heavenly one is where Christ now ministers on behalf of His people. That's is Paul's whole point in Hebrews, that the earthly temple was NOT perfect, but the one in heaven, is.
Debate your little asses off...your all out of your minds. James 3:1.
chasbro777 3 weeks ago
This is all assumed under an idea of an "all at one time, all at one event, all at one event" eschaology. Full Preterism is Dispensationalism in reverse. The Dispensationalist has it "wholly future". The FP has is "all past". They are BOTH exactly alike. Two extremes. The truth is somewhere in the middle.
samuelmfrost 2 months ago
@samuelmfrost Sam, so nice to hear from you. Please tell what is that middle that leave prophecy unfulfilled and results in a "limbo" state for eschatology, which by definition is the "end" or fulfillment of something. If we have something in the "middle" of the end, we don't have an end but a "middle." Where is the "middletology" of the Bible, which is nothing but the "already but not yet." It sounds good, is popular with the masses, but is illogical and is itself extreme!
AllThingsFulfilled 1 month ago
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youneekk 7 months ago
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So who is THE false prophet of the book of Revelation?
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and THE FALSE PROPHET [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
PeteWaldo 11 months ago
A GENERAL STATEMENT TO NO ONE PERSON IN PARTICULAR BUT ALL >>> The Most High deals with generations the way he will without any mans permision or confirmation as we learn from Eccl. 3:15 - "What is happening now has happened before, and what will happen in the future has happened before, because God makes the same things happen over and over again". (NLT) and you can read that passage in about 10 or more translations and they all give clarity .... shalom
surgeneral108 1 year ago
Im open to preterism , Im also open to history repeting itself.
jerryjamify 1 year ago
@jerryjamify Regarding the matter of history repeating itself, are you open to the recreation of the physical world? Are you open to a second Egyptian bondage and deliverance through the Red Sea? Are you opend to a second giving ot the Law of Moses? Are you open to a second coming of Jesus in the flesh to die for the sins of the world? Are you open to history (prophecy) repeating itself without end? Where does it stop?
AllThingsFulfilled 6 months ago
@AllThingsFulfilled It stops when god's rule is complete in all mankind. The sacrifice of Jesus and the forgiveness of sin was completed at calvery. But the history of mankids rule is still repeting itself, just look at the world today, compare the American empire to the the Roman Empire, the British empire, All great empires rise and fall because the heart of making has not been changed. God is still building up and tearing down great and small nations doing his work in mankind as a whole.
jerryjamify 5 months ago
@jerryjamify Are you open to Jesus coming and dying again for the sins of the world in order to save us? That would be preterist fulfillment of the cross and a repetition of history. . Only problem is, it would contradict, the "hapax" once for all time death of Christ and made the "second" coming of parousia, the double-parousia, etc. Not a very pretty sight logically speaking.
AllThingsFulfilled 1 month ago
"Armageddon" is not about a future battle! It is about Jesus crucifixion. "Wormwood" is not a meteor but actually describes the eventual destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. Why? because Jeremiah mentions the same word during and before the babylonians destroyed the 1st temple - Jeremiah 23:15,Lamentations 3:15,Lamentations 3:19 and even Amos 5:7! Please read through my blog to understand my comments.
cris750 1 year ago
Did you read my answer. For Christians satan ceased to exist in the first century. He was defeated on the cross and done away with in the destruction of Israel.
Now as for faith. I believe the prophecies as they read and as they are tied to the first century. Christ basically said few would accept the fact of his return. I accept it, both on the evidence of history and by faith. The spiritual realm is infinitely superior to the physical.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey So u believe satan is in the lake of Fire. Yes or No, thats all im asking for?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey for christians haha? where does that?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Some times I am unable to post here?
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey where does it say that?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
You got the testamens right. But how about accepting this fact.
The NT tells about the things that were happening to and around people who lived in the first century. It also repeatedly says such and such was the fulfilment of a certain OT scripture. Then the NT has warnings directed to the people around Christ and who knew his apostles. All who were living then. The elements were to burn and Peter tells them they were looking forward to that and told them to get ready.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey tht doesnt explain anything
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Check my videos and comment there and then we can continue. They are under MrPeacekey
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
Your imagination is working over time. Israel becoming a nation in 1948 is fulfilment of OT prophecies? Wow! That is a good one. The NT says nothing about that.
All OT prophecies were fulfilled way back.
The restoration of Israel always was conditioned upon their repentance.
So you are not satisfied with having Jeus in your heart. You want him to come down and do it over again?
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey Its not that im not satisfied haha, if u read the bible it talks about a 2nd coming, indeed a physical coming hahaha..
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey Old testament is New testament concealed and New testament is old testament revealed.
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
The first three verses and several others in the Book of Revelation tie the fulfilment of it's message to seven literal First Century Churches.
Jesus seemed to wonder if he would find any faith when he returned.
That book, if taken in it's first century context and if the NT is kept in context, then Jesus is ruling over everything in the now. He is setting down with God on their throne.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
2 Tim 1:10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel: (Past tense No more death!)
You have to be wicked and die to get to hell. The NT repeatedly says we have eternal life. The term "Hell" is tied to the grave. Are all the godly dead Christians still in their graves? I believe Jesus had the keys to both and for godly Christians there is no more hell.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
This problem has followed the Church.
Luke 18:7 and 8 And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them? I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
He evidently found very little. He did avenge his elect as he destroyed their enemies while he saved those who had listened to him and left. Unbelief still blinds people to the truth.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey He has not come back yet, its only been 2 days since that was written so its not like that was very long ago . . . ur ignoring so many prophecies its sad
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Texting Jesus In an earthly temple in Jerusalem?
I talk to him everyday. Which is better?
You say I am ignoring many prophecies. I am saying they were fulfilled. I cannot prove it.
I do see some evidence in history, the rest I take by faith.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey Hell gets thrown into the lake of fire, 2 Tim 1:10 is the 1st coming when He died on the cross, so lemme rephrase the question, is satan in the lake of fire or not? some prophecies were fulfilled but remember that one of the Bibles prophecies was fulfilled in 1948, Israel became a nation again. And yes it says the times will become like the time of Noah, complete wickedness throughout the world.
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Fire in the bible is often associated with truth. The Word of God is as as a fire it burns up its enemies.
Was there any wickedness in the world during the life time of the Apostles? Making sport of killing people for entertainment is extreme wickedness.
The same Greek term for "world" as we read it many times in the NT, was found to be referring to the Roman empire in the Dead Sea Scrolls.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey OT prophesies all fulfilled? hahahahah ur Histerical ive already given u quite a few that havnt been. Zephaniah 1:18, that hasnt happened yet. . . i still want u to explain this one ahhaha
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey Read Zechariah14:4-5 THe mountain splitting open from east to west and the valley being created and then fleeing through the valley, thats sounds pretty literal. and if u read Micah 1:3-4 and Zech 4:7 it makes it even more clear that its literal. and Zechariah 14:8 with the waters is literal to read Ezekiel 47:1-10. these 2 things have not happened yet.
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Again your imagination is at work, but I will have to admit you are not alone.
Mountains splitting water running out through a country, valleys filling with blood, huge beasts with horns and fire coming out of their mouths, all make for bad dreams.
Read the last few verses of Malachi. It promises a blessing but contains an "if." (lest)
John the Baptist basically says they do not get the blessing.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey I dont think u understand this but the beasts and horns are explained away in revelation as to what there meanings are ha. mountains splitting is definitely explained to as something thats physical if u read the references with a positive attidude. same with the water, I dont think u have enough faith in Gods capabilities personally, a lack of faith. sad day. . .
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey now stop avoiding my question, is satan in the lake of fire or not?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey U realize the early church fathers would disagree with u right?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Have you read Luke 18:7&8? Do you think what happened in 70 AD and what happened to Israel for the next 200 plus years was at all important relative to fulfilled prophecy?
Jesus expected that few would believe he had returned. I have faith enough to accept his words and the witness of history. In contrast - You, like most Christians, deny his 2nd coming.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey I dont deny that it will happen, but it hasnt happened yet, where is satan right now? in hell? or not?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
What did Christ do to the devil? What does the bible say?
Is what it says to be considered? Just who was the enemy of Christ in the first century? Who was it that he was pointing to - the devil left and then came back with his friends? . Did Christ destroy the devil?
This "devil made me do it" is a wicked way of looking at it.
Being in Christ is to be in a different world.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey alright when i ask a question, dont avoid it by asking questions thats not answering it, its a Hell or not question
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
One critic wrote a book with this Title. "Why I Am Not A Christian."
In that book he detailed the NT's portrayal of the soon return of Christ, but like most Christians today, he believed it did not happen.
To him it was obvious that Christ was to return while some of his mid first century followeres were still living.
The New Testament very plainly details the thought that Christ would return quickly and it that generation. Historically, he did just that.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
2Pe 1:19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
Who was Peter speaking to? Is that important to you? Those people had a better look at prophecy.
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that "ye" (YOU) look for such things, be diligent that ye (YOU) may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey I thought i already explained this to you? No man knows the day of His coming, not the angels, nor the Son, but the Father who is in heaven. . . Its spoken in that context because they dont know when, they dont know WHEN. . . its for alarm so they would stay prepared. If all things were fulfilled then the majority of the bible should be discarded and considered useless...
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Hello there! If Christ's words of warning to people living 2000 years ago prepared them for a coming terrible judgment and those who took heed were saved, then that is a tremendous witness for Christianity.
If they did not even know something terrible was coming and forgot about it only because they did not know the day or the hour then they had a problem.
History clearly tells us it did happen, but it was around 40 years later.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
they asked Him for signs of His coming to be more specific and if u read Luke 21 u would know it hasnt happened yet
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
If you read Luke 21:20-22, and verse 32 correctly, you will know it has happened. Until you can produce people who are yet alive from the first century generation, there is no possible way the event can be future.
AllThingsFulfilled 1 year ago
the generation in which the signs will be fulfilled, thats the context u cant just skip 10 verses read the whole context. . . who do u think the anti christ was?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Here is what we know about the Antichrist. The Bible says he had already come and it is by his presence in the first century, they knew that the last hour had arrived. (1 John 2:18-19). The mystery of iniquity was already at work, 2 Thess. 2:4-7). You are reading into the context by saying the generation in which the signs will be fulfilled. Why overlook the generation who heard Christ. That is what he meant by "this generation."
AllThingsFulfilled 1 year ago
@AllThingsFulfilled Read 2 Thess 2:2. . . and then 1 John just says theres many antichrists now, and they heard the antichrist will come eventually .. and if u wanna take last hour literally then it all went down an hour after this was written. . which means its really figurative, used as a devise for warning and alarm. . .
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
If you would read Josephus's history you would see many signs did come to pass.
There are other histories that mention peciliar signs in the sky, etc.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey I dont care about some guys testimony on y he is not a christian, if u read the bible and dont excuse the prophesies its obvious that it hasnt happend yet, no one knew the time or an hour, its only been 2 days since Christs death or around there. did u know that?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
The first three verses of Revelation tie everything said prophetically in that book to the first century as does several others and especially the last chapter. (He did say things about the ongoing reign of his kingdom.) He was coming soon and he said it emphatically, "behold!" He also said he was making ewverytrhing new and then adds it is done, all in a first century context and in keeping with the introduction and the ending.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
Rev 9:15 1/3 of the earth wiped out by 4 angels, and another thing i would like to point out is this, Revelation 14:8 " fallen, fallen is Babylon the great, she who has made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her immorality" SO babylon is a nation of sin, and idolatry welcoming any god into the nation except the one true living God. What nation does that sound like today ? ? and who do u think the Anti Christ was?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
You have an unbelieveable amount of imagination!
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey hahahahah imagination? or maybe just reading the scriptures the way they should be read? haha . . it doesnt take much imagination honestly, u just have to read the next verse and u come up with my "imaginative answer" of course when u harden ur heart and dont wanna hear the truth, it doesnt help, u have to be open, i cant argue with ur "beliefs" i can give u all the facts u want but its not gunna help because u dont wanna believe differently. . .
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Three times Jesus spells out his return and what was going to happen. All that was to happen while some who heard him were still alive.
You see all of that happening on the Mt of Transfiguration.
That is proof that you have a tremendous imagination.
What else can I say. In Matt 24, which was much later they ask him about when it was to happen.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
they asked Him what it was going to be like in matthew 24, and no imagination at all needed, read all 3 of those verses on and it describes the transfiguration, Just like u can read mathew 24, mark 13, and Luke 21 and get the same 3 general things except Luke is more explanatory. Just like the parable of the sower is in all 3 of them aswell, does that give me an imagination? i dont think so it just makes u look like ur grasping for straws that dont exist, which is alot more imagitive i must say.
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
"Tell us, when will these things be? And what is the sign of "thy coming", and of the termination of the age? " Matt 24
It says "when" as a question. These things are tied to his coming in power.
That answer to "when" puts it way beyond the transfiguration. He did not come in his kingdom during the transfiguration. If you see him coming in power then it is your imagination. Most all scholars admit he did come in power in the destruction of the Temple.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
See to it that no one misleads you. verse 5. For many will come in my name, saying, 'I am Christ,'and will mislead many. and then verse 8BUt all these things are merely the beginning of birth pangs.verse 15 the abomination of desolation? when did that take place? it hasnt yet. and then verse 21. there will be a tribulation , such as has not occured since the beginnin of the world until now, nor ever shall. There was worse events then 70ad.
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Who was Christ speaking to in Matt 24?
Does that matter to you? Can you honestly forget just who had just ask the question?
He said to them 2000 years ago that when "they" see that Abomination that had been spoken of by Daniel, to get out of there. Under line the word "They" and under line the words "when you see " in your bible."
A wicked priest got rid of the old good priests and took over the temple, then the Romans destroyed that temple - all in keeping with Christ's words.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey verse 44 establishes no one knows when SO BE READY hence the context of soon, quickly etc so people stay ready..
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Who was Jesus speaking to when he said no one knows when?
Who was Jesus warning?
Who did John the Baptist warn?
Did they know those people were going to see terrible things and so was warning them?
Did Jesus weep over Jerusalem? Why?
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey Read 2 Peter 1:16-21 its talking about the transfiguration =)
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Past tense. First century. Newness is tied to the heart of man though their being born for above. We are new creatures in Christ. We are in his kingdom. An earthly kingdom would be anticlimatic. He humbeled himself 2000 years ago and finished his work.
Rev 21:5 and 6 .. he ... said, Behold, I make all things new. ... Write: for these words are true and faithful. ..he said .. "It is done". ...I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey so u use luke 9:27 to justify wat u believe??
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Start with Matthew 16:28, then Mark 9:1 and then go to Luke 9:27.
These verses are only a small portion. In John 3 Christ teaches us we are to both see and then enter Christ's kingdom. He was not just giving Nicodemus a suggestion. He said "you must!"
The first three verses of Revelation, the last chapter, etc, etc.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
so i read all of that very carefully and please be opened minded to this. . . Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Notice He says "some of you" and then the next verse for all these passages follows with "6 days later" or "8 days later" Jesus was talking about His transfiguration which only SOME of them saw. ( Peter, John, and James ) and in John 3 You must believe to enter the kingdom of God, thats a common salvation lesson. If yu die in belief, u will enter the kingdom of God ( thief on the cross )
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Why speak of some still be living if it was the transfiguation? Underline "some be living"
That is meaningless if it is reference to just 8 days later.
He had not yet beeen crucified, and he was not returning in the transfiguation.
It does not fit the several scriptures where he is saying that some would still be alive when he returned.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey IT fits all of them and " some will be living, and see the kingdom of God, only 3 saw it the others didnt, thats SOME LIVING. its not meaningless a all, u just want it to be cause it dosnt help ur disproven theory
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey and for revelation, i dont think its fair to apply the context of the first verses with the last chapter. . .
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Were all the things written by the prophets concerning Christ fulfilled?
Did Christ finish his work?
Did he triumph over all evil powers in the first century?
Does he have to come back and go back to an earthly temple again?
Does that temple have to be destroyed again?
All Christians who have died down through the centuries are still in their graves?
OH? They are with Christ, but they still need their dead bodies?
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey Christ's first coming conquered death and sin, because of that we can overcome it, and biblically He has to come back and reign, ( a physical reign on earth ) the Mount of Olives and the water is indeed literal, if u read it u can tell, by how vividly it is explained if u wanna say that nothing is literal, then when Jesus said He died on the cross He coulda been joking right, and when He said sin was bad He was probably just being sarcastic right? thats ur logic
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Hebrews 10:12 is the 1st i repeat 1st coming, when He died for our sins, that is the 1st coming..... hence y it says offered one sacrifice for sins, like as in on the crossssss, if u take that verse out of context so easily then go figure how people can come up with doctrines like preterism and calvinism . . .
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
(Joh 19:28) After this, Jesus knowing that "all things were now accomplished," that the scripture might be fulfilled... (Joh 4:34) .. My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, "and to finish his work." (Luk 18:31) ... we go up to Jerusalem, and "all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished." (Col 2:15) And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, "triumphing over" them in it.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
all of ur arguments go against His prophecies and the bible itself, u are taking scriptures out of context and disregarding others, and idc what the population was, it doesnt change the fact tht the HOLOCAUST was way more severe for 1 and stallon was way worse as well. so ur points again mean nothing
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
It does not seem to matter to you that Jesus spoke directly to people in the first century and said that some of them would be alive when he returned. All of your arguments go against his words. They go against every time statement in the NT. We can argue about the binding of satan and the 1000 years, etc. However, if the bible is to maintain its integrity Christ has to be here in the now saving and delivering people.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
You evidently do not accept the fact that Christians suffered under both the Jews and Nero. Read the book of Acts. Have you read it? Did Jerusalem cease to exist in the first and 2nd century. Was the nation of Israel completly removed from the map for nearly 300 years. Was it are renamed Palistine as a put down of the Jews by Rome? Do know that the Philistines were Israel's enemies?
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey ya and Israel became a nation again in 1948, it still didnt compare to the holocaust so ur point is invalid. and satan when he is cast into hell, will never tempt again because he is not omni present he can not be in multiple places at once so when he is in helll he will stay there and tempt no more
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
The splitting of the Mt of Olives will be litteral. A huge literal valley will be created and they need water so a spring will come out of that?
I thought living water had to do with spiritual birth?
The 7 specific Churchs written to and that existed in the first century are symbolical?
Blood as high as the bridle of horses is litteral?
Make sure Christ did not finish his work in the first century and in the end the devil wins and God has to destroy this planet and recreate it?
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
when sin entered the earth the perfection slowly started to and is still degrading, thats y its gunna pass away, He is gunna make all things new and perfect, The new heaven and the NEW earth, and the old will pass away. . . read ur bible
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
and the tribulation is supposed to be worse than any other tribulation that has ever occured the bible is very specific about that, yet Rome did not compare to Hitler or Stallon, so history proves u wrong as well
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
The population of the world in the first century makes 1.2million people a huge number for that time. At no time have 3 factions in a civil war produced such terrible things. They ate their own children. All in a walled city, not a country.
Putting Christ's return off into the indefinite future has caused the Christian community to act as if they get involved in their communities and vote they are going against prophecy and hindering the return of Christ. It is all going to burn??
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
You think that telling people back then they would see those things happen was really just an open ended warning? You think a lie is OK?
Untold numbers of people think you are into doing a cover up. They say Christ said he was coming right back, while many of those people were still living, but Christians have created a myth out of whole clothe to cover up their fantasy based religion.
Many people read the same bible you do and hear your approach and laugh.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
Is having numbers of stars falling from heaven and hitting the earth more symbolic then the probability of Christ standing on the Mt of Olives as being symbolic?
Has anyone ever seen horsemen riding on horses in the air, or feiry swords coming out of a persons mouth? Or has anyone ever seen a huge beast with a huge woman riding on it's back?
Was God ever seen physically riding on and in clouds during OT times.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
We have a hard time proving to any skeptic there is a Go, yet we have infinite amouns of evidence. The numerous NT time statements are ignored and replaced with guesses and speculation. At hand quickly, soon, last days, last hour, end of the world, world with out end, you will see, when you see the abomination of desolation, on and on...
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey We know that the mount of Olives hasnt been split in two because well its not, thats accesible info that anyone can find, when God says He will destroy all the inhabitants of earth thats symbolic of actually destroying everyone on earth, which means its literal, when He says He will send satan in the lake of fire forever and ever thats literal too.
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
God only knows how many have been turned off because we do not accept the bible as it reads. History backs up my position. Few Christians have ever even heard heard of Josephus. They know little about the persecution of the Church by both the Jews and Rome. The whole nation of Israel went crazy and thought they could whip Rome/ The devil had left during Christ's ministry, but he brought back his friends.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey Ur using History to back u up and im using the bible, Luke 21:12-24 explains Rome and the persecution that had to take place b4 christ could come back... THe devil never left during Christs ministry, satan tempted Christ, its sad how much u dont pay attention to scripture and how u say everything is symbolic and not literal. . . let me paint u a picture of the mount of olives
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
... faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world. Rom 10:17b-18
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith: Rom 16:26
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey thts good, but still u have a lot more problems with ur doctrine and u cant prove preterism because of Isaiah 11, Zechariah 14, Rev 20, Rev 21 etc, theres to many prophecies tht still needa take place
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
I doubt we will ever know everything that has happend in the past, yet we seem to think that because we have never heard of something we perceive of as not happening according to prophecy we speculate and say it never did happen. There are a lot of symbolic images in both the OT and NT. There were animals with horns in both that no one has ever seen. We accept them as being tied to nations in the OT, but in the NT we just ignore the thought that symbols are not all literal.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey last hour, quickly, soon, last days, etc all those things were said so people would be prepared because no one knows the time or the hour..... its a simple biblical concept....
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Still John the Baptist, Jesus, and the NT in general gave numerous warnings - all aimed, (not specifying a certain day or hour,) at the "age" they were living in.
Thier words of warning were directed to the people who they were either with, or were writing to. It is peculiar how is is so hard for some to see that the prophetical messages of the NT was to, for and about the people living then and details things they had seen were then seeing and would see shortly and were tied to OT prophecy.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
Do you think Christians should vote? Many old time dispensationlists taught agaist it.
Is Christ coming back for a victorious Church? Or is he coming back to save a defeated one? His Church was floushing untill Rome set out to kill them all for entertainment. The gates of hell are to crumble before the Church, but we have to believe that is our Job. He finished his earthly ministry, the ball is in our court. 2/3rds of the Jews are to die so Jesus will come back?
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey to make it simple His earthly ministry will be completed when He comes back next time. . .
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
(Heb 10:12) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, "sat down on the right hand of God;"
He is ruling and reigning in the now.
This world goes on and people will go on getting saved, but the enemies who did not receive him were judged 2000 years ago in fulfilment of prophecy.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
Rev 20:10 satan will be done away with fo ever and ever.... and i wanna see the passage where it says the gospel was preached throughout all the nations, if u have that reference
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
.. ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel; Which is come unto you, as it is in all the world; and bringeth forth fruit, as it doth also in you.. Col 1:5b-6
... be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; Col 1:23
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
If you will check the last chapters of Revelation you will see that sinners are not present in Christ's kingdom. It is the higway of holiness spoken of in the OT, but outside are wicked people. For Christians satan is bound. Christ put him down, crushed him under his feet. This is directly tied to the kingdom that believers both see and enter, it is not for the wicked. St John 3. Christ is king, he defeated the devil.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
There is no mention of chips in the bible. There was a one world Gov in the 1st century. Did you know that Christians built several Colleges in the late 1700s and by the very end of the 1700s those colleges were no longer Christian and the students were burning books and filthy laungauge was in on their campuses? The Christians who attended had went underground and had secret clubs and only a handfull were in them.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
Earth quakes? The people who study earth quakes have said for years that, yes, there are increases on occassion and this is just an ordiary cycle. They deny there are any more now then there have been for thousands of years. The JWs took some statements out of context years ago and taught that there has been a dramatic increase in earth quakes. Scientists have repeatedly denied that, but evangelicals accepted the JWs word over scientists.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
The 1000 years if investigagted is tied to the reign of martyrs with Christ. There are several other places in the bible where the same term of 1000 is used and none of them mean an exact number but point to an unlimited time.
In Christ we have a peace that passes all understanding.
Jewish history mentions a connection of the terms heaven and earth with the inner and outer court. The enter being associated with heaven the outer being associated with this earthly realm.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey luke 21:12-24 those r ur events tht happend, the end times yet to come. . .
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
Zepheniah's prophecy is said to be something very near. He speaks of them searching out Jerusalem. read from the beginning down. Keep it in context.
It mentions idol worshippers, worshipping the host of heaven, some of the nations mentioned no longer exist.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey Zepheniah 1:18 For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terriftying one, Of ALLLLLL the INHABITANTS of the Earth. . . everyone no one will be left. . . This indicates that indeed the old earth will be destroyed... The new earth is a place of perfection, and look around far from perfection so were not on the new earth. . . now we have 2 options left the millenial kingdom or before the millenial kingdom . . .
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
To turn our backs on the first and second century context of Christ's words undermines the credibility of the bible and this means we have no real basis for Christianity other then it being a myth. Many people today have computers and the word is getting around that Christ was to have returned soon after he left and he did not do it. I know better. Why? because I accept the bible as it reads and I accept the witness of history.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey UNFORTUNATELY people get caught up into the teachings of men, and false doctrines, and take things outta context, in Zechariah 14 when it says the Mount of Olives will be split in half, it literally means that, and when water will pour out of it to the east and west, it really means that. . . so u gotta take the whole bible into the context and it teaches that it HASNT happend yet.
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
The Mount of Olives is symbolic of the division between the Mosaic and the Body of Christ. Out of the Church flows living water. Yes, this is speculation, but so is the thought that OT prophecy about that Mountain is to be accepted as litteral.
It becomes rediculous to make the terms of every prophetical utterance mean something physical or literal. Again, how many falling stars can the earth survive. 1000s of earths are not as big as a star.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey and again ur forgetting Jesus didnt even know the time or the hour, which is y it was in tht context, so they would be prepared if it wassssssss, i dont know how much i need to stress that, 1000 years is like a day and a day is like 1000 years. dont forget that. . . so forget the context, its called precations, and lets look towards the prophesies that must be fulfilled 1st, btw have u noticed all the recent earth quakes?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey have u noticed how the dollar bill has lost its power? that the government is gunna be pushing for a 1 world currency? that theres a chip that can be conviently put into ur forehead or right hand? that this worlds lawlessness is increasing drastically? sounds to me like the stages are being set . . . could happen soon or it could be in another generation but notice all the signs?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey If we were currently in the millenial kingdom, 1 christ would be reigning, 2 perfect people would be walking around, 3 lions would not eat lambs, snakes would not bite people etc. 3 the anti christ would have had to come to power and the reign would bring forth the most terrifying tribulation ever . . . nero doesnt fit, 4. the mark of the beast, there has never been a mark on the right hand or forehead. therefore the abomination of desolation hasnt happened.
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
Jesus in Matthew tells us we are to be as perfect as God is. Perfection in God's dictionary has to do with moral perfection. That has to do with us doing our best, it is not about demanding the impossible from us.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey So these obvious factors prove tht ur interpritations are flawed regardless of whatever u try to say to justify ur beliefs. . . Unless u take the bible for what it is, i dunno wat to tell u
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
As far as Christs kingdom goes, we are either in it or we are on the outside looking in. he said it was in their midst 2000 years back. Read the book.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey of course Christ is in you cause of the crusifixion, the Holy Spirit, um thanks to His FIRST COMING, I read the verses and those things have definitely not been fulfilled yet, and i think ur missing one big concept about God. . . Read 2 Peter 3:7-18 . . . a few verses u need to focus on are verses 8-10, 15, and 16 i think 16s a big one to remember. =)
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
Check the context in Peter. Who was he talking to?
He was warning people who lived then about somthing the would see happen.
That is the context. To take the warnings of the NT which were written to people who lived 2000 years back and was warning them about things they would have to go through and say it did not happen then is your choice, not mine.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
now another verse U SHOULD REALLY TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION is Matthew 24:36 Its a really good verse u should read it sometime, it shows us how the people writting the bible, even the Son of God, Jesus doesnt even know when the day of the Lord is, His second coming, so stop acting like u do cause it hasnt happend.... Either ur saying tons of scriptures are lying like Rev 20, Luke 21, Matthew 24, Mark 13, Isaiah 11, Zechariah 14, revelations 1:7 etc etc etc orrr u just havnt read those ones
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
Three times Christ uses this kind of warning.
Some of you will not taste death untill you see, etc.
He also refered to the Abomination that Daniel talked about and said when you see it, etc.
The word "You" in those passages ties what he was saying to the people he was talking to. They were to see the Abomination of desolation. That is the context.
He told them, way back there, what they must do when they saw it.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
I am accepting Christ's words as they are written.
He did say he did not know the day nor the hour. That is true.
But did he know what generation? Or did he know the age those things were to happen?
Many prophecy experts who sell many books teach that Christ and his apostles were mistaken. They admit that the NT clearly teaches the soon return of Christ.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey ahhh the soon return of Christ, hmmm, a thousand years is like a day, and guess wat else. . . teaching as if the end times were near would be logical since they did not know the time or the hour, so they would be prepared. saying that His coming has already happened however is not logical for this earth would have passed away long ago and everyone u see would be perfect people with His name on there foreheads
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey read rev 21:1 parElthen, KJV uses "passed away" and strong hebrews dictionary says " perish, go, pass, past, and transgress...
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore Luke 21:12-24 would explain all ur events that happened, outside of the endtimes, the end times events are currently being and will still be fulfilled in the future, go play with a rattlesnake and tell me how tht goes
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
I mentioned this in an other post. Read the next verse.
You seem to be unable to accept the first three verses of the book and the fact it was written to 7 churches that existed in the first century. Were they literal physical churches or would you have them be symbolic and then make the huge women on an huge beast be literal? There is also a curse associated with changing its message.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey pareleusontai parelthOsin this is for Matthew 24:35 and it has the same meaning as the word in Rev 21:1 so it would appear tht this earth would be no more, nada. AND ANOTHER POINT I WOULD LOVE TO MAKE - was the gospel preached to all nations by 70AD ? mark 13:10... and then Mark 13:19 says that tribulation will never be greater b4 or after. . . guess what Stallon and Hitler were kinda worse than Nero
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
Two times Paul said the gospel had been preached all over the world. Not a quote but the essence of what he said.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
Was there a battle between 3 religious factions to the death inside the walls of a city where 1.2 million people died and then their temple, city and nation all ceased to exist? No temple for 2000 years. For 300 years no Jews were allowed to worship in Jerusalem.
There religious scrolls were banned. I am guessing at some of this, but I am close.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey? Zephaniah 1:18
Neither their silver nor their gold will be able to save them on the day of the LORD's wrath. In the fire of his jealousy the whole world will be consumed, for he will make a sudden end of all who live in the earth."
Explain?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
Check the use of the terms "World" and "Earth" in a concordance. Very often they have several meanings, such as nation land tribe, etc.
You mentioned Rev 21:1 keep reading and compare the 2nd verse with Heb 12:22.
Paul there says they had already come to that city.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
It would do you good if you found the scriptures that tell us the world has been established for ever. Then do not forget God looked over his creation and said it was very good. In one place he said he did no create the world in vain, but created it to be inhabited.
If it had to be destroyed then that means the devil,and evil won.
A world, a land a nation, a system, or a Babylon were all destroyed in the 1st century.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
Ya He said it was good when it was perfect, but the fall of man kinda messed that one up,
Zephaniah 1:18 = all inhabitants of earth consumed , not just a nation, a sytem, or a babylon. . . and remember Snakes still bite, mount of Olives still in one piece, satan still tempts people, etc prophecies still need to be fulfilled... Luke 21:20 Israel is supposed to be destroyed, Her desolation is at hand ( has to happen b4 the end times ) and it already did
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
I know Christ as my savior. He is with me and in me and this was a promise he gave to his followers 2000 years ago.
How many stars can fall to this earth? The OT tells us they fell way before Christ was born. The OT tells us God came in a cloud or on one in the OT but no one saw it happen, but an army fulfilled that prophecy. You must keep it in context.
Read the first 3 verses of Revelaion and the last chapter and accept them. (Context!)
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
If I understand right the 1000 years are viewed as being an earthly eutopia by most people. I do not see that in the context. In those passages it appears to be dealing with people who are reigning with Christ after sufering martyrdom.
Yes, I do believe Christ came back after having prepared a place for his people, all in the first century. The day of Pentecost is tied to his return, as was the destruction of, the temple, then the end of Israel as a nation.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
Jesus spoke directly to people around him 2000 years ago and said they would see the Abomination Daniel had spoken of.
The book of Daniel had been sealed up, Jesus opened it up.
Then he said the Book of Revelation was not to be sealed up. Those 7 Churches were told that singular prophecy was upon them.
I love the Bible and have to defend it as it reads.
We are, as born from above believers, in God's temple, in the now.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey are u a preterist?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
That is what they call people who believe like I do. However, there are many kinds of Preterists. Many of them only choose some parts of the Preterist position. Others try to figure out everything and end up making some weird claims. There is a lot about the book of Revelation I do not understand. I try to stick with the things that are very obvious.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey so im trying to learn about ur beliefs right now, so do u believe were in the millienial kingdom and the 2nd coming has already occured?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
I believe there is but one kingdom, not one for God and one for Christ and one on earth, etc.
His kingdom is in his people, in their heart. We are lively stones gathered together as one building. The focuse on the earthly, the physical, as being the goal is not supported by scripture.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
That was the expectation of the Jews and it appears to me Jesus tried over and over to get them to look in their heart and to expect that he and his Father would take up their residence with and in those who obeyed him.
He told his desciples he would eat and drink with them in his kingdom and they did eat and drink with him again before he was taken up the last time.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey Isaiah 11:1-10 seems pretty physical. and if u read Zehariah 14:1-8 it explains things that havnt happened yet like the mountain of Olives being split in two. And the mark of the beast has never been given out yet, and anti christ comes before the 2nd coming. so wat about those events tht hav to take place and hvnt?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
You are saying they did not come to pass. I have not said that.
Do you know anything about the writings about the first century by Josephus? He was a Jew, not a Christian, yet much of his history details the fulfillment of some of Christ's prophecies. He lived during that time.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey also note in Zehariah 14:4 His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives. thts also Him being here physically right?
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
Yes, those verses do appear to be speaking of physical happenings, however, the fulfilment of OT prophecies show that many of those things were figurative.
There were already many anti Christs on the scene in the first century and John says that was a sign it was the last hour, or something to that effect.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
theres always gunna be anti-christs because satan knows not the time or the hour, so he always has someone ready just incase. However the Legit anti-christ has not come to power yet. As for the millenial kingdom it is indeed physical reign on earth, and in that time satan will be locked up therefore he cannot tempt the nations(rev 20:3)and Rev 20:6 shows how they will reign with Christ,its literal,Christ will come down and Every Eye will see Him. and that has not happened yet
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
You are in the main stream position, but I cannot tie what you are saying to the bible.
The NT uses words like these, last hour, at hand, last days, soon quickly, etc. Most are tieing what they are seeing to their day. The mention of the anti christ is tied with the las time or the last hour. The passage clearly states that because there were many anti christs back then it was proof they were living in the last hour. Are you familiar with that passage?
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
Do a search on YouTube for MrPeacekey
I have several videos. These posts are to limited to have a discussion. However, you can make comments below my videos.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@IamNOTlikeUnymore
Have you listened to any of my videos?
I make it a goal to stick with scripture and hold it up as being the authority. I do not accept speculation.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
@MrPeaceKey ya i have and i notticed tht u like to look at individual verses and not take the entirety of the passage, just like calvinists and also logically 70ad was almost 2000 years ago so either we are on the new earth or we are on the old one and Jesus hasnt come back a 2nd time... biblically Jesus hasnt come back, i am not speculating i am giving u biblical fact, u cant ignore passages in the bible my freind
IamNOTlikeUnymore 1 year ago
1. Rapture happens in the end of what?
2. Will you Check with Joseph, in the OT, about sun moons and stars bowing?
3. Do you believe the langauge is about litteral stars?
4. Do you think litteral stars will fall to earth? (Stars Plural)
5. How do you justify ignoring the first century context?
6. Is the 1000 years talking about where dead people will be reigning?
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
Rev 6 :12 what were suns moons and stars for. and if they are removed what day, what month, what year is it
what season is it to plant wheat & barley when do you harvest or proclaim the Holy feasts CHRIST FULFILLED ALL THESE THINGS we don't need a Lamb for JESUS IS THE LAMB and all other feast LOOK to Feast
if this happens in such a early part of the book what is the rest of the REVELATION
the Fallen Temple is the WHORE for she was a den of Thieves like the trade ships of Tarshish
reconorder 1 year ago
You appear to belivee all godly believers are "not" with Christ, but are awaiting, now 2000 years, for a physical resurrection.
It is very easy to ignore what I have asked, or proposed. I cannot ignore the text and context.
The bible is the basis for my faith.
MrPeaceKey 1 year ago
I believe in one second coming and it happens in the end I don't believe in pre trib rapture Christ only comes one more time there is no 3rd coming
akaboo69 2 years ago
Preterists vs. partial-preterists. Dispensational futurists vs. partial-preterists. Preterists vs. dispensational futurists. No wonder why Christ said there would be 'false prophets' (Mt.24:11,24) speaking fallacy about His 2nd Advent and the end of the age/world. Indeed, upon Chirst's return, there will be no one left alive on this planet (Rev.19:17-18; Lk.17:37).
rkg62976 2 years ago
People are so quick to label others false prophets that they make irrational arguments. The text is taken out of context. Matthew 24:11, 24, describes false prophets who deceived people relative to Jesus' coming in connection with the destruction of Jerusalem. Stay with the context and read it as though you were sitting in the audience with Christ, and it ought to click. Then take note of verse 34. Assuredly I say to you, this generation will by no means pass till all these things take place.
AllThingsFulfilled 2 years ago
@AllThingsFulfilled "Stay with the context and read it as though you were sitting in the audience with Christ..."
Indeed. The above is required in order to understand the proper context. Before doing this, I was a pre-millennial dispensationalist. The latter requires vast amounts of elaborate and frankly silly conspiracy theories in order to maintain a belief in it.
Mechanized0 7 months ago
Romans 8:22 "We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as WE WAIT EAGERLY FOR OUR ADOPTION AS SONS, THE REDEMPTION OF OUR BODIES. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently." Now read Luke 21:28, 1Cor 15:52
mooglecharmed 2 years ago
What the passage from Romans 8 shows is that even though the Roman church was spiritually raised in Christ (Romans 6:2-12, Romans 8:10) and even though they lived by the Spirit that their PHYSICAL bodies needed to be redeemed. In fact, the passaged says that THE ENTIRE CREATION (Rom 8:21) was going to be redeemed. Jesus said this redemption was going to be seen by that generation (Luke 21:28, 32). This is why it is the new heavens and the new earth; redeemed creation and bodies are part of it
mooglecharmed 2 years ago
This new heaven and earth that replaced the one that fled away (Rev 20:11) at the AD 70 judgment/resurrection means indeed that "ALL things are being made new" (Rev 21:5, Col 3:10) which means Jerusalem was being "made new". With earthly Jerusalem judged in wrath, the heavenly Jerusalem is now unquestionably established as the house of God (Eph 2:19-22, Heb 3:6, 1Pet 2:4-5). When the Temple falls in Rev 11:18, IT IS THEN that the dead are judged. Verse 19 shows new dwelling with man.
mooglecharmed 2 years ago
The temple that fell per Rev. 11:8, is the Old Jerusalem temple of A.D. 70. It occurs at the 7th trumpet blast which fulfills the mystery of God, Rev. 10:7, and thus equates with Matt. 24:31, 1 Cor. 15:52, 1 Thess. 4:17; Rev. 11;15. We can only have one "last trumpet." All happened before that generation passed away as you acknowledge per the Lukan text. That covers Romans 8 as well. Nothing was finished till 70 A.D.
AllThingsFulfilled 2 years ago
Agreed, brother. Sorry, I should have been more specific there. Parsing is VERY important in this debate!
mooglecharmed 2 years ago
Rev.11:8, it seems, is speaking about the 'two witnesses', not the Jerusalem temple. Furthermore, the 'temple' mentioned in Rev.11:1,2 doesn't seem to mean the Jerusalem temple either. Rather, if John and Paul are in agreement, which I believe they are, then the 'temple' (naos) are believers in Jesus. Paul uses the same word to describe us in 1Cor.3:16, and 2Cor.6;16. The 'temple' spoken of does not refer to the Jerusalem temple as it had ceased to have any meaning after the crucifixion.
rkg62976 2 years ago
You are correct that the context of Rev. 11:8 is the two witnesses. That's not the point. It's what is said "about" them. Note: "And their dead bodies, [i.e. two witnesses] will lie in the street of the great city, [thus, at this point], the text describes what happens two them]; Now the great city is described as the place where the Lord was crucified, [Jerusalem]. Again on the temple, I agree, Rev. 11:1; but it is the "court" outside the temple, Rev. 11:2, which refers to the Jewish temple.
AllThingsFulfilled 2 years ago
Then who are the 'two witness'? I believe this passage is highly symbolic and has absolutely nothing to do with literal Jerusalem. Yes, the city at the time of Christ's crucifixion can logically be equated with 'Sodom' and 'Egypt', but that is not the point either. The time period of 1,260 days (v.2,3) is very important as well, as it is given 7 times in the apocalyptic books of Daniel and Revelation. What does this time period mean to the preterist?
rkg62976 2 years ago
For the sake of the argument, who the two witnesses are, is irrelevant. The issue is when the event happened. When it does, we know their testimony would be "finished." The point is John is writing after the crucifixion and calls it Sodom and Egypt. So does Paul, Gal. 4:25-26. The 1260 days ends when it is destroyed. It is destroyed in 70 AD, Mt. 24:34; Lk. 21:20-24. Therefore, the "symbolical" 1260 days ended at that time. Otherwise, your logic breaks down and contradictions multiply.
AllThingsFulfilled 2 years ago
To say that the 'two witnesses' are irrelevant is doing great violence to the text. We are meant to know and understand who the 'witnesses' are. More importantly, however, is to be able to properly determine the time prophecies of the 1,260 days. I deny the dispensational/futurist view that the 'witnesses' are literal human beings/prophets. But the preterist position is equally erroneous! Failure to exegete these texts properly results in great deception.
rkg62976 2 years ago
It is incorrect to say that the Jerusalem temple had ceased to have any meaning after the crucifixion. Remember, Christ said, not one jot or tittle could pass from the Law till all were fulfilled/till heaven and earth passed. The temple yet stood and is connected with Christ's prophecy of the parousia, Mt. 24:3. Moreover, Hebrews 8:9, says the temple yet had authority until the way into the Most Holy place was complete. Heb. 9:8-9. Else, Christ could have been a priest on earth, Heb. 7:11; 8:4.
AllThingsFulfilled 2 years ago
Mt.24 is equating two separate and distinct events. The disciples asked Jesus two question in v.3. In His ingenious way, Jesus gives us examples of His 2nd Advent and the temple destruction. Heb.8:2 tells us this 'temple' is the heavenly one which is equated to the one on earth. And that the heavenly one is where Christ now ministers on behalf of His people. That's is Paul's whole point in Hebrews, that the earthly temple was NOT perfect, but the one in heaven, is.
rkg62976 2 years ago