The Cornet V is ravishing, but it sounds a little out of place -- suddenly we're transported to the French Classical era. I'm glad the cornets are there in the larger C-C organs (they make an authentic Grand Jeu possible) but am a little puzzled as to the intended use, since neither Franck nor Widor called for it, as far as I know.
A Cornet is used as a solo voice as well as part of a Grand Jeu. It was mainly used in the Baroque and Classical era for solos to go with a trompette for example, the composer would normally indicate its use. Marchand, Clarembault, Corrette, Couperin all use it as a solo stop.
I am aware of the use of the Cornet in the French Baroque period; my question was why did Cavaillé-Coll include Cornets in his larger organs, as the registrations of the Romantic period did not normally call for Grands Jeux or Cornet solos. Was it to accomodate the playing of Baroque works, or was it merely an instance of conservatism on the part of the French, or did the composers C-C was building for actually specify the Cornet in their compositions?
It was mainly to allow for performance of French Baroque, although it also gives composers variety so in that respect it is nice to have, the cornet on the Bombarde manual I understand is from the previous Cliquot Organ.
Yes, a good question. It is true that Couperin or Clérambault were forgotten at symphonic period, but Bach was still played, nevertheless, specially during services for Bach chorals, we can suppose that it was a sufficient reason.
Rankett, the development of the French organ is additive. Baroque instruments contained a Renaissance core, and the late symphonic examples also include all the jeux which precede them. This is one of the considerations which led Cavaille-Coll to retain stops of older instruments which he remade or expanded - why, for example, discard a fine Cliquot ensemble when one must then only recreate it?
Thanks to all who responded, especially Goncourt. You brought up some good points about the way all organ styles in reality evolve: conserving what they valued in the existing work and adding new stops to realize new needs and concepts.
@Rankett16 Actually, in a few of the Symphonies (No. 6 movement 3 comes to mind), Widor calls for Anches and Cornets on all manuals. Generally, one would use cornets to boost the treble of the reed stops; even though the reeds are very treble-ascendent, the cornets are useful; we know how obsessed Cavaille Coll was with loud trebles, going so far as putting the top octaves on higher pressure; the cornets aid in this regard. When the higher octaves are not on higher pressure, this is more vital.
I love the Cornet Vs on this instrument...such pure sounds, a real treat. Can't say the same about the famous Contre Bombarde, though, I think it honestly sounds TOO loud and overpowers the rest of the organ.
First heard the St Ouen organ on an LP with Edward Commette many years ago playing part of Bach's organ mass. I visited the church in 1998 but I think there was some construction going on at the time and my visit was short.
Heavenly interludes encompassed within a divine space.
FromHolbergsTime 11 months ago
The Cornet V is ravishing, but it sounds a little out of place -- suddenly we're transported to the French Classical era. I'm glad the cornets are there in the larger C-C organs (they make an authentic Grand Jeu possible) but am a little puzzled as to the intended use, since neither Franck nor Widor called for it, as far as I know.
Rankett16 2 years ago
A Cornet is used as a solo voice as well as part of a Grand Jeu. It was mainly used in the Baroque and Classical era for solos to go with a trompette for example, the composer would normally indicate its use. Marchand, Clarembault, Corrette, Couperin all use it as a solo stop.
BeFrSc 2 years ago
I am aware of the use of the Cornet in the French Baroque period; my question was why did Cavaillé-Coll include Cornets in his larger organs, as the registrations of the Romantic period did not normally call for Grands Jeux or Cornet solos. Was it to accomodate the playing of Baroque works, or was it merely an instance of conservatism on the part of the French, or did the composers C-C was building for actually specify the Cornet in their compositions?
Rankett16 2 years ago
It was mainly to allow for performance of French Baroque, although it also gives composers variety so in that respect it is nice to have, the cornet on the Bombarde manual I understand is from the previous Cliquot Organ.
BeFrSc 2 years ago
Yes, a good question. It is true that Couperin or Clérambault were forgotten at symphonic period, but Bach was still played, nevertheless, specially during services for Bach chorals, we can suppose that it was a sufficient reason.
organum74 2 years ago
Rankett, the development of the French organ is additive. Baroque instruments contained a Renaissance core, and the late symphonic examples also include all the jeux which precede them. This is one of the considerations which led Cavaille-Coll to retain stops of older instruments which he remade or expanded - why, for example, discard a fine Cliquot ensemble when one must then only recreate it?
goncourt49 2 years ago
Thanks to all who responded, especially Goncourt. You brought up some good points about the way all organ styles in reality evolve: conserving what they valued in the existing work and adding new stops to realize new needs and concepts.
Rankett16 2 years ago
@Rankett16 Actually, in a few of the Symphonies (No. 6 movement 3 comes to mind), Widor calls for Anches and Cornets on all manuals. Generally, one would use cornets to boost the treble of the reed stops; even though the reeds are very treble-ascendent, the cornets are useful; we know how obsessed Cavaille Coll was with loud trebles, going so far as putting the top octaves on higher pressure; the cornets aid in this regard. When the higher octaves are not on higher pressure, this is more vital.
thonyus 1 year ago
I love the Cornet Vs on this instrument...such pure sounds, a real treat. Can't say the same about the famous Contre Bombarde, though, I think it honestly sounds TOO loud and overpowers the rest of the organ.
willowthebored 2 years ago
First heard the St Ouen organ on an LP with Edward Commette many years ago playing part of Bach's organ mass. I visited the church in 1998 but I think there was some construction going on at the time and my visit was short.
reedchorus 3 years ago
I do hope that Heaven contains this organ's twin: in the same acoustic, obviously...
marsvltor2 3 years ago
Yes, not a trumpet stop, but the V-Rank Cornet, a stunning stop. And yes, it has the finest 32' Contra Bombarde in the world!
ds1868 3 years ago
Its Contra-Bombarde 32' is the best in the world.
BeFrSc 4 years ago 2
WOW... we would doubt a finer "cornet" exists!
hitidesin 4 years ago 2
The Saint ouen Organ is my favourite organ... What a pleasure to listen to this wonderfull sounds
suduiraut64 4 years ago