(part 2) Tony Cecchine learned catch wrestling from Stanley Radwan. So all of them have a legit knowledge of catch wrestlling. And about Jake Shannon. He believes in the style and therefore wants to help popularise catch wrestling, via Billy Robinson. I guess Jake jimself is still learning the style from Robinson, but I'm sure he will progress by the years.
So whether you learn it from Cecchine or Robinsonn (RIP Gotch), you will learn the style anyway and properly.
in a response to all those discussions about whether Tony or Billy or someone else is a fraud or not, let's make it very clear and simple: Billy Riley's Snake Pit gymnasium has been considered legendary and n°1 in learning catch-as-catch-can style wrestling, during the past 20th century. Billy Robinson mastered the style in the Snake Pit. He was one of Billy Riley's students. The same goes for Karl Gotch. Lou Thesz learned catch wrestling from both Ad Santel and Strangler Lewis. (part 1)
I think if Lou Thez ever had the chance to watch a guy like CM Punk wrestle, he'd be proud of him and he might even pay Punk a lil of respect, because Punk is definitely a hooker in his own right and someone that can you in a lot of different ways if he wants to or if you get on his bad side.
Not really sure what the difference between "hooking" & "shooting" are, but Thesz died in 2002 while Stu Hart died in 2003. Wouldn't Stu Hart been one of the people that could tell if someone was a hooker or shooter.
I also think Lou might be off. Just cuz they don't shoot or hook doesn't mean they can't. I would have to think that Stu Hart trained guys Bret & Benoit or a guy Kurt Angle must know how to conduct themselves if the need arose.
@TNO73 my understanding that the difference is that a shooter can legitimitly wrestle and can beat you; the hooker knew dangerous, unknown and oft illegal moves like "hooking" the cartilage in your nose.
Amci06042,And besides Lou what does Bill wicks,Billy Robinson, and the late great Karl Gotch has to say about Tony? Lol From what I read and heard not nice things to put it nicely. Let me guess there behind a conspiracy too to get Tony? Lol this is starting to get hilarious the more research I do on this guy. Lol
b7r7u7c7e With the exception of Bill Wicks, none of them has met Tony, AFIK. So again between Lou and these guys, Lou would have a better knowledge of Tony. Bill he knew Tony, Tony even arranged Bill's student to fight in pancrase. The guy lost by top wrist lock which Bill said only works for amateurs LOL!
Amci06042, look at tuin699 there are 4 vidz 2 that each are almost 10minuts long that make Tony look like a clown. As an instructor myself these types are laughable, useless,comical,and embarrassing for Tony. He plainly looks like he's making it up or dosent know what he's doing. Let me guess he was having a bad day? Helio gracie has a video were at 90 grappling a man in his 30's, and looks flawless.
Jj68chezchmate, I'm not talking about my ass. This is what he said himself! So your coming off like an idiot. Lol his point as well as mine is the ground game has evolved. That's why Eddie was able to beat royce brother at adcc championship when he came up with the rubber guard. Unlike you I know a lot of the gracies and talk to them when I'm in LA. Get your fact strait wanna be.
I respect Lou but videos don't lie. I saw a video of Tony not only doing catch & wrestling moves wrong but UNABLE to follow simple easy direction! Its one thing if your tweaking a different way to do a move but he clearly didn't know what he was doing. I was on the fence on Tony being legit because all you have is him showing moves on people who aren't moving & supporters saying they"heard"of him beating black belts & there vidz of him rolling with people BUT there not available. Come on!
b7r7u7c7e b7r7u7c7e Here is the comparison, Lou saw and trained with Tony for several years they are good friends. Lou personally judged Tony's capability on what he actually saw. You on the other hand judges Tony on the videos you saw of Tony here on youtube. For me there is no comparison you are judging on a small portions bits and pieces of larger video and training seminar done by Tony. Like what I said before kindly show to us why you think he sloppy. Tony did the same on other guys
Anci06042, One last thing. The ground game has evolved to the point that blue belts of today would have submitted Royce gracie in the first UFC. Kids today are not only learning at a faster pace but are coming up with new ways to submit. How many different ways can you do a kimura? My point is if you don't evolve your going to look out dated.
@b7r7u7c7e I'm pretty sure Royce Gracie, a brazilian jiujitsu black belt, would still beat any blue belt out there. all of the different angles and variations of submissions have been known for a long time, stop talking out of your ass.
Amci06042,98% is from anyone point of view so yea that would apply to who you know unless your God!In the 90's Sakuraba was the best Catch wrestler alive but Americans even in MMA never heard of him. Not to dwell on the Jake thing cause again in business some people get burned I just didn't know the history till you said what you said and found the drama on line. I'm just hear to debate a video. I hope everyone is succeeds wither its Jake or Tony. Making comments is not going to effect that
Amci06042, I think it was like you said someone with a similar account. Yes I did roll with Jake when he ask for Neil stamp. I just didn't know the back ground with the Tony situation. Just thought he was a guy promoting Catch. You see(And I'm not talking about you)real men don't bitch about shit like that. He said she said is for girl.
Amci06042,What I mean when I say 98% don't know him is this. There are alot kids coming up from a BJJ,Judo,and wrestling back ground that are interested in Catch from watching old pancrase vidz, old pride fights,or vidz of Sakuraba. If you go to any grappling class or mma gym and say who's Catch everyone will say Sakuraba, Gomi,Josh,John Jones etc. I've never heard of Tony till I looked up catch online.
@b7r7u7c7e Thats 98% of the people you know. OTH about 90% of the people I hang around with knows Tony very well and Im not from Chicago. Sad but true there are people now who don't know Tony thanks to Jake who keeps on putting down Tony. Let me ask you this, why would Jake put down Tony if Tony is a fraud and insignificant? Because Jake knows Tony is not a fraud and Tony is an obstacle to his business. Shrewd shrewd person
Amci06042 Jake is a business man like a lot of people,In business sometimes you get burned. If what you say is true about what jake is doing that's fuck up but it happens to lots of people. There are some people saying Neil is not catch but bjj. You think he gives a shit? He let's his grappling do the talking. People still say ken was not catch just a leg lock master. You think he gives a shit?
@b7r7u7c7e Just google Jake and S Wrestling. Yes all of the bad mouthing came from Jake yet when he was proven wrong he kept quiet. When his certifier got exposed he did not say a thing. Honest and sincere honest man he is not.
Amci06042, Why would I travel from california to roll with Tony? What your not getting is there's lots of people I don't agree with there style of fighting. For example I like Franks approach than Kens, so do I need to grapple with Ken? Its just an opinion, that's all, no conspiracy. I remember this guy jake because he offered Neil money to promote his website. Neil is training Randy and some other ufc guys so jake wanted his stamp.
@b7r7u7c7e Like I said Im not being sensitive my radars are just up. So I hope your not taking this personally. I suggest that next time before you say something like your posts is deleted kindly verify your information. There are more BRUTAL things posted against Tony and was never deleted here. I'm asking for your fair judgement.
@b7r7u7c7e I thought you said you rolled with Jake? Anyway yeah thats Jake alright, he even offered money to internet hackers who can help him hide the blogs that were exposing his modus operandi, his lies and the deceit that he did. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against him just stating a fact what Jake has been doing.
I'm not here to bash Tony, just curious why he's not well known in the grappling & Catch community. The excuse that he was black balled by Jake is laughable.(98% never heard of him) Jake is a joke. If your good you get love & respect. No man can control that. Lastly why are there no vidz of Tony rolling with students or grapplers like you see the Gracies or Sakuraba doing in there vidz. I can show my granny how to do a wedge choke, put her on youtube you think she was a master!
@b7r7u7c7e I very curious how come you have not heard of Tony. Before LOAH was released Catch wrestling was not even in everyones radar. He started the Catch revival. Jake balled him thats true for what? Cause he was on his way, no one will buy from Jake the Fake is Tony is there. He has a lot videos I have seen it. He roll with them all the time. There was a video I own he said just do what you want to do, bam 20 sec later the guy tapped. I can't post it though.
@b7r7u7c7e The absence of a video rolling live in youtube doesn't mean it does not exist nor that it means it did not happen. Cecchinecatch if Im not mistaken has video for MMA strength and also a student of Tony. He repeatedly said he rolled live with Tony. Again if Im not mistake he has won the NAGA heavy.
That's why I said you can go to Chicago and roll with Tony.
@b7r7u7c7e 98% doesn't know him? Im interested where did you get this statistics? But there is a long list of people who knows him, I know. There is even a video of Shonie C training with Tony. Its here in youtube
Amci06042, not trying to take up space just want to answer your questions. I'm one of many teachers at the Shamrock Academy in San Jose ca. We have a teacher for each style. BJJ/Judo/Boxing/Wrestling/Muay Thai. I teach my students the history of catch wrestling/Lancashine/Panlavani style. I tell them about Ad Santel/Karl Gotch/Robinson/Minoru/Inoki/Sakurab/Gene Labell/Gomi etc History is important but know a days everything is mixed even the ground fighting.
@b7r7u7c7e If you have any doubts on Tony you could call him or send him an email. There was another BJJ black belt who has a video with Tony about leg locks. He said many times Tony in his prime could tap a lot of so called world champions. He also said that for him Tony is not the best grappler but he is there on top with them
Amci06042, I've rolled with Jack & he's NOT a catch wrestler or grappler & knows it. However I respect anyone who's promoting catch because I love it. Its the first grappling style I learned even though being a BJJ black belt not qualified to teach. Kamal Shalorus who is a black belt in BJJ comes down to our school to learn catch from Neil not me or the other staff. Neil is amazing and when I go to Japan is well known.
@b7r7u7c7e Everyone knows he is not a catch wrestler. A manipulator yes, hypnotist yes, shrewd businessman yes. Catch wrestler NO. There is a video of Jake attending a seminar with Tony and he can't do anything there. I've seen it. Yet he had the gall the call Tony a fraud. As it turn out his first catch certifier from Canada was not even a catch wrestler.
Aci06042, I have another account but when I gave my opinion on another topic cecchinech blocked me. I've made comments on hundreds of videos but never got blocked. This is not only silly but sad. So yesterday I used my gmail account. I am not a world champ like Lou. I'm a black belt in BJJ/judo at Shamrock Martial Arts Academy in San Jose ca. I learned catch under the shamrocks in the mid 90's
@b7r7u7c7e Give me the URL on my PM my guess is that video was posted by someone else similar to the one posted by Cecchinecatch. I posted on the same video and was blocked. OTH I posted on all videos posted by Cecchinecatch and none was blocked. Some posts are even uglier just look below Hectordead post " Tony is fraud" post. If Cecchinecatch did not blocked that post by Hector why block yours? How worse can your post be?
@KosenMaster True true I would have done the same if I was Tony. But Tony is the better man he keep quiet because he knows what he is talking about. Jake on the other hand does nothing but slander Tony and promotes scientifc wrestling. Jake will not last a minute with Tony.
I speak to Neil Melanson every day.& he says Tony suspect as a true catch wrestler. He showed me a video online were Tony was clueless on basic positions!True catch wrestlers are Billy Robinson,Yoshiaki,Funuki,Suzuki the Shamrock Brothers,Guy mezger Sakuraba etc Not this guy. The fact that he deletes comments & blocks people when they make good points shows how fake & insecure he is.
@b7r7u7c7e First the video you are talking was not posted by Tony but by someone else who accused Tony of being a fraud. He does not deletes comments it was the guy who posted it. If you will look at cecchinecatch posts there is a similar video showing that Tony knows something you can post there.
Secondly, you joining youtube this month and posted things against Tony, just Tony, is highly suspiscious. Go to Chicago and roll with Tony anytime.
Tony never EVER has to have a fight,Tony is someone who loves to learn and teach Catchwrestling,many many great boxing coaches NEVER fought or were not champions,nor do great champions make great coaches or teachers.I dont care what you say,Tony was on this way before anyone and I DO compete and as a competitor I can tell you Tony does know what he's doing,just watch his tapes its obvious,only someone who spends hours on the mat would be able to teach and explain the details as he does.
Let me guess, your one of those rare people. Who spent so much money to go meet Phony Cecchine in person right? So now you buy more into his lies. When I saw Lost Cause Of Hooking. All it was, like 10 hours of him talking. He keeps on putting down Gracie Jiu Jitsu then later on shows off GJJ moves. He's a total fraud. He bothers me because LAOH is a total ripoff. Why would I be scared of Phony Ceccine? He looks like he's 5 foot tall. Doesn't pose a threat to me at all.
@hector17dead sir if this is for me then you have not answered my question. I own LOAH and I didnt see anything on the back with Tony claiming he learned everything from Lou. Also have you been on a tournament? Is the tournament the only crucible for knowing whether a person is legit or not? No he is not showing a BJJ moves.
@amci06042 Now that I know how seriously I should take you. Google "World Martial Arts Tony Cecchine". On that website, the distributor for Lost Cuase Of Hooking. It says as clear as day on the ad that Phony Cecchine is riding on Lou Thesz coattails some more. It doesn't say he's trying to "revise the art/science of Catch Wrestling.". Don't put words in my mouth, don't CHANGE THE SUBJECT.
@hector17dead The website is referencing on several personnel not just Lou. Proving, that he is a legitimate catch wrestler. You on the other hand claims he is a Phony. So I am asking you what are your credentials to be an authoritative guy on spotting who is legit and who is phony. Lou is a world champion for decades and he says Tony is a hooker. You on the other hand says he is a phony. So I am asking, are you a world champion, have you beaten world class fighters in world class tournament?
@hector17dead So help me here sir, Im open minded I want to know where you got your information about Tony being a phony as you claim. DId you get that from watching his videos? If it is tell me how and give me your credentials. One can't just take something as truth because someone said it, it has to be back up by evidence and credentials. On the other hand if not, then where did you hear or read that Tony is a phony? And I will ask those who said that the same thing, their credentials.
@amci06042 Once I said something negative about Phony Cecchine. Then mysteriously somebody like you comes up with all these weird claims about him. I just asked about his sales pitches. Who is this guy, why does he act like he can beat anyone with his wrist locks? He's never had one single fight SO he can't back up anything he claims. He's a total hoax. For every time I asked a question the guy got so backed up into a corner. Phony Cecchine is so transparent.
@hector17dead Mysteriously? What is mysterious that his friends and students are defending him? Is that mysterious? No I don't think so! What is mysterious is you Hector, every time there is a video of Tony with high rating you mysteriously appear and post Tony is a phony. Also mysterious is you again Hector in Amazon,in most if not all videos of Tony you have a review saying Tony is phony. Makes one wonder on you real motives. This is far beyond "Tony is bashing BJJ" IMO. This is bad intention
@hector17dead And BTW you don't post to ask, what you do is mysteriously appear and post he is a phony. I am the one asking you, from what point and perspective are you coming from? You have not proven beyond reasonable doubt that one is a fake until he enters a tournament. Lou Thezs said he is a hooker you said he is phony but who are you? Your not a world champion or a world class grappler yet you accuse Tony. If I am going to bet my money it would be with Lou and not with you.
@amci06042 You still can't aswer a simple question like that. "Who did this guy wrestle?". Nobody, why does he act like he can beat anyone. If he's never tried. When I ask a question like that, you come up with 100 different stupid things instead of just the simple answer. Who has he ever gone through?
@hector17dead Go this his website and if you really have his DVDs you can see who he wrestled and people he taught. You on the other hand doesn't have a dvd that can show your skills, you again doesn't have the record saying you are a world champion. Its very simple sir,what are you credentials that makes you an EXPERT to know who is a phony and who is not. You came back to me with a question who has he wrestlted and go on to say see he has not done anything therefore he is a fake.
@amci06042 I just don't want anybody to fall for it like I did. I got ripped off once. Then I realized this guy is nobody. He's never beat anybody, he can't. All he shows is wrist locks. Your cyberstalking me and now I know your that same idiot from Amazon. NOBODY gives a rats ass about Phony Cecchine. He's a fraud. You can't even answer that question. All of his stupid claims, he can't back up anything. Your Phony Cecchine under a different name.
@hector17dead You accusing me of cyber stalking? All I want was to watch youtube with Tony in it. But every time I open one there's you saying he is a phony. I went to Amazon to look for his videos but when I look at the reviews, guess WHO? YOU! Again saying he is a phony. Is that cyber stalking? You posted both in youtube and amazon that Tony is phony but when I exposed your "mis" deeds I'm cyber stalking. Ha ha ha get real! You don't need to be one to see your character assassination.
@hector17dead Another one of your lies "All he shows is wrist locks" this proves you have not seen his videos yet you have the gall to posts in amazon reviews he is a phony. There are tons of submissions there . Oh before I forget you said your motivation is " Tony BASH bjj" BUT on this post you said "I just don't want anybody to fall for it like I did. I got ripped off once. Then I realized this guy is nobody".
WOW a sudden shift in your story! Why? I wonder what your real MOTIVATION is?
@hector17dead YOu said "Your cyberstalking me and now I know your that same idiot from Amazon." What are you talking about? I haven't done anything "YET" in amazon except expose your misdeeds here in youtube. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to see what you been doing around. Telling lies fabricating stories.
@amci06042 Then why do you care? DO YOU KNOW how I bumped into Phony Cecchine. On accident. I was looking up Pankration one day. Just to see what popped up. Then Phony Cecchine, and Jim Arvinitis pops up. Neither of them ever beat anyone. I saw that joke of a video Lost Cause Of Hooking. It's like 10 hours of him just speaking. A wrist lock here or there, that's supposed to be a "Lost Art"?
@hector17dead You can't answer my you attacked Tony and can't leave him alone when you say he is a nobody! Now you are asking me why I care? Before I answer that answer the question first why can't you leave Tony alone if what you say that he is a nobody? I did not attack Tony you did I asked why when in your allegation he is a nobody? Again just LIKE ALL your allegations you can't prove it.
@hector17dead You said "Your Phony Cecchine under a different name." Prove it! I am not Tony yet you alleged that he and I are the same. If I I will use your logic, then you are Jake S. But I wont go down to your level although your motives are highly suspicious and you sound like Jake. I will not make such statement cause, unlike you, I will not accuse anyone without any evidence. I will not dishonestly attack someone and use it to further my cause. I will not CONFUSE people with LIES.
@hector17dead Sir, I did not attack you. You attacked Tony I challenged all your allegations. Yet up to now you can't prove anything. For someone who is PASSIONATE about getting proof of one's claim you on the other hand are not doing it. You should practice what you preach. Show evidence to your claim
@amci06042 I can prove anything I say. Your the one who can't handle a single question. Who has Phony Cecchine ever wrestled. Or WHY DOES HE THINK HIS METHODS WORK at all? Theres the real question. You can't prove it. My personal opinion is he's the worse "Martial Artist" ever. He's a fraud. He's the only guy who has anything good to say about himself. Lou Thesz took photos with Gene LeBell before he died. Why didn't he do that with Phony C? He must be really senile in this video.
@hector17dead Ha ha ha OMG hector do you even read your posts? Look here " I can prove anything I say" Also on the same post you said "My personal opinion is he's the worse "Martial Artist" ever" In addition to this you previous post said " I'm just stating MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION" Hector you are CONTRADICTING yourself. How can you say Im voicing my OPINION and they say I can prove everything I say? Hector not only are you a master of lies you are also a master of CONTRADICTION
@hector17dead What is an OPINION "a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge" You said you can prove anything that you say, you also said I 'am voicing out my OPINION.
Oh BTW Lou said "Tony is a hooker" He did not say Gene is a hooker he said TONY!
And you, not even a world class wrestler accuses TONY! Prove your OPINION if you can.
@amci06042 So in your HONEST Opinion your Saying Phony Cecchine can't hold a candle to Gene LeBell? Bwahhahahahahha Just get over it. Your worshiping a complete zero. Gene LeBell is in the same league as Lou Thesz. You just confessed how much of an imbecile you are.
@hector17dead"So in your HONEST Opinion your Saying Phony Cecchine can't hold a candle to Gene LeBell?"
Ha ha ha get real Hector I did not say that ha ha ha. introducing a new topic eh, nice try, but IT did NOT answer the questions nor did it answer the mysterious OPINION that turned to ALLEGATIONS that turned to FACTS ha haha . Show us the EVIDENCE where you said Tony claimed he was taught by LOU and that you are WORLD CLASS grappler to say Tony is phony. So far you have not shown ANY!
@hector17dead Do you lack sleep? All along you been saying that Tony is phony when I asked where you based it you said you are just stating an opinion BASED on common sense. Thats really heavy man, I think I should believe you after all Lou is just a world champion that said Tony is hooker. Yeah your OPINION has more credibility its based on COMMON SENSE.
Thank you Hector for giving us this information. We really owe your opinion and common sense. You also did not contradict yourself.
@amci06042 I NEVER NEVER EVER Said I'm a pro fighter. Are you? You can't back up ANY of the shit you talk. That stupid video with "Shoney Carter" or whoever. That doesn't prove anything. All black guys look alike. How can I tell that, that's even him. I didn't find J. Shannon on there anywhere. That guy's bald, where is he? Phony Cecchine is the only guy who says, -or retracts- Acting like Lou Thesz taught him everything. Stop playing dumb, get your head out of your ass.
@hector17dead HA ha ha I did not say you're a pro fighter I am asking for your credibility since you accused him of being a fraud. You said thats your opinion based on common sense! Lou said he is a hooker. So you have to be at par with Lou to say that Tony is NOT a hooker. So I asked what is your credibility?
OMG Hector you don't even know how Tony looks like and you're claiming he is a fraud. Isn't this the height of hypocrisy. Either that your your just blind.
@hector17dead You said "I can prove anything I say" - So SHOW IT
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
@hector17dead You really sound like the founder of S Wrestling, just my OPINION! I can't prove it of course, its an opinion. My common sense says that the two of you are one of the same, but I can't prove it. It's just my common sense. Unless of course I have an evidence. Or my name is Hector!
@hector17dead So we will not lose track Hector let me make it simple:
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said
Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
Respond to this video...To each his own dude. If you are bothered on what Tony says on his video make your own video and bash Catch.
Just curious though. Your motivation to attack Tony is because he says a lot of things about BJJ. Yet Catch in general will say a lot of bad things about BJJ. Yet you only attack Tony. It also make me wonder why you are subscribed to Scientific wrestling and not say anything about Catch.
@amci06042 Who has Phony Cecchine ever beat again? Oh that's right NOBODY. He's just riding Lou Thesz coat tails. Why does he act like he can beat anyone?
@hector17dead@hector17dead hmmm Lou said Tony is a hooker. And thats Lou he competed for so many years. You said Tony is a phony. Have you competed? For how long? What are your credentials? In other words how good are you to spot a phony?
You said Tony claimed he was taught by Lou at the back of LOAH. Its not there, can you prove your claim?
You said Tony didn't enter a tournament therefore he is a fraud. I've been asking you, have you been in a tournament? What your achievement? No replies!
@amci06042 All Lou Thesz says is that they were good friends. He never said word for word "I taught Phony Cecchine everything he knows.". Watch it again. My "motivation to attack" Phony Cecchine. He's a total fraud. DON'T CHANGE THE SUBJECT OR PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I've been in tournaments and been ganged up on street fights. Phony Cecchine is mad at scientificwrestling because those guys DID HAVE CAREERS, and CAN BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS Phony Cecchine is a hoax.
@hector17dead Watch, Lou said " Tony is a hooker". Im not changing the topic, you said
"Hey, on the back of the box for Lost Cause of Hooking. Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows." - > I told you I own LOAH its not there, I asked for a proof where you got that you did not reply. Instead you went to say on his website he is riding on Lou, you failed to show the proof I was asking for and introduce a new topic with Tony riding on Lou.
@hector17dead There you are again,its on the website you and in the box. Alleging I have not seen it. Im looking at the box and the website. On both the box and the website, Tony never claimed that he was taught by LOU as you alleged. You alleged Tony CLAIMED he was taught by LOU on both occasion. Tell you what its not there. Here is the site that you alleged show me where he said " I was taught by Lou" . Please show me wherewww,catchwrestle,com/?page_id=127
@hector17dead watch again, Lou said he is a hooker. He never said Tony is phony. Tony never claimed he was taught by Lou. You posted before that Tony claimed he was taught by Lou on the back of "LOAH". I own LOAH its not there I asked for proof you didn't reply. Im not putting words on your mouth or changing the topic here is what you posted ""Hey, on the back of the box for Lost Cause of Hooking. Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows." So where is that box?
@hector17dead Where dude? Where is the claim made by Tony? You said its in the back of LOAH its not there! You said its in his website still not there! You have not shown anything to substantiate your claim. All that you said were allegations and innuendo. Your claim -about Tony saying he was taught by Lou - can't be proven. Give me an evidence where Tony "explicitly" said he was taught by Lou. Exactly how you alleged it to be and not anything else.
@hector17dead So here you are again with allegations -> "Phony Cecchine is mad at scientificwrestling because those guys DID HAVE CAREERS, and CAN BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS " So where did you get this information? Did Tony tell you that he is mad at S. Wrestling cause they have careers? Can you prove this? So you know people from S. Wrestling right? You can't say they have careers unless you them right? Corollary to that, this means you know Tony?otherwise how can you say he doesn't have a career?
@amci06042 Dan Severn made an instructional video for S. Wrestling. Or is he a phony? Hell he was in the first UFC tournaments. Phony Cecchine never had a fight. Where is it? I can't find it anywhere? Phony Cecchine wrote some blog about how he hates Scientific Wrestling and says this and that about Jake Shannon. In your book Phony Cecchine is a somebody huh? I guess Bas Rutten, Erik Paulson, or Dan Severn are nobody's huh?
@hector17dead Ha ha ha Another one of you great innuendo! I never said that Dan, Bas or Eric Paulson are nothing! Where did I make such a claim? You are now alleging that I'm making one and conveniently changing the topic ha ha ha. OMG! What are you doing man? Corollary to that, Dan, Bas or Eric Paulson never said Tony is a phony. Have they? You on the other hand, accuse Tony of being a phony and you have not proven yourself being on the same level as them. Who have you beaten anyway?
@amci06042 The other day Phony Ceccchine walks into a bar. He tries impressing girls by saying he's a wrestler. They ask "Who did you beat?". Then he trails off and stumbles on his own feet saying. "Just take my word for it I can beat anybody". Thank God they had more brains than to fall for his garbage. Too bad you couldn't be that smart.
@hector17dead Ha ha ha Hector common man, when and where did it happen? Where you there? Or this is another one of your crazy stories about Tony. Were you there when it happened. Do you have a video or audio of this happening? Stop propagating lies. This did not happen and there is no way you can prove it. LIES man lies pure lies. I'm smart enough not to tell LIES honest enough not to make stories about someone.
@hector17dead Are you avoiding these? Lets make it simple
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said
Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
@hector17dead You said " The other day Phony Ceccchine walks into a bar. He tries impressing girls by saying he's a wrestler. " You talked as if you were there dude. Prove it. Which bar in Chicago time and place street name. Prove it Hector! Im pretty sure you can NOT! Like all your allegations, lies and fabricated stories of Tony.
Im pretty sure this did not happen and its fabricated by you or you will say I got a guy who witnessed it.
@hector17dead Now its a joke, ha ha ha. Another change of topic cause you can't prove that it did really happen.
How about this " Tony hates Scientific wrestling cause they have careers " you posted this the other time. Is this a joke too? I asked you did Tony tell you this? He didn't yet you came up with this story. I won't be surprised if you day this is another joke that came from you #nus!
@amci06042 I already told you what to Google. Tony wrote a blog in RESPONSE to the one that J Shannon did. Now your making even less sense. LISTEN. ANYONE with 1/2 a brain will ask himself questions before they buy a Instructional DVD set. I'm not going to invest good money into garbage. It was rare that I ever heard anybody say anything about Tony Cecchine. He's his own biggest fan. Even on here he owns this channel and he makes false claims.
@hector17dead The burden of proof is in your hands hector not on me. You said there is a blog where Tony attack Jake S and Matt SHOW it to us.
Show it here, so people can see the truth. LIKE when Jake said Tony is a Phony then created his S. Wrestling then made certifications with a guy from Canada. Who turned out to be the real PHONY. How could jake fall for it when he was the one who was (like you) very passionate on asking Tony for proof. I wonder why. Please show us!
@hector17dead LIES lies lies, fabricated story by a great story teller must have imagining things. Take make word drugs and alcohol are not good for you. Only a drunk and doped person could make up stories like this.
Where and which bar in Chicago did you see this happen? You could not even answer my questions below. This and LIES that you made like " Tony is mad with Scientific wrestling because they have careers" are now being exposed. I asked you when did Tony tell you this? No answer!
@amci06042 If you want to find that stupid blog that Phony Cecchine wrote, where he made like 100 false claims. Google Tony Cecchine "Unscientific Wrestling" blog. He makes outrageous claims with nothing to back it up. That 40 year old loser is all smoke, and no cigar.
@hector17dead Ha ha ha can't back up the claim man? What blog? You mean the ONE written by Jake S? Jake wrote it ( or you?) not Tony. You SAID "Tony wrote a BLOG" where is the blog written by him? You seem to know a lot about Tony hmmm makes me wonder.
@amci06042 NOBODY KNOWS Anything about Phony Cecchine. He's too scared to talk about his career because he knows it's imaginary. He never had a career, he never beat anyone, but he rides on coattails of Lou Thesz. I guess when I "Attack his character". I guess I'm saying common sense things huh. Truth that will keep someone from watching him or even think about buying one of his Phony wrist lock DVDs
@hector17dead Another CONTRADICTION -> I'm just stating MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION. Sorry if it worked that bad. And then you also said now "I "Attack his character"- Finally you admitted your attacking Tony.
Also you said your attack is BASED on COMMON SENSE, yet you said you can PROVE it.
Hey hey hey Three cheers to hector for the lies and contradictions.
@hector17dead Nobody KNOWS Tony? As in NOBODY? I will prove you that you are wrong. Watch the video here it shows Lou saying "Tony is doing a super job of HOOKING"
I rest my case your honor. You witness HECTOR - Please prove to us NOBODY KNOWS TONY!
@hector17dead please prove to us Hector that Tony is phony as you conveniently alleged! I will be glad to see if you can really prove he is a phony. You are saying that your ATTACK is based on common sense. Therefore that is your assessment of Tony's skills. So being the one assessing show us your credential to prove you are an EXPERT Catch wrestler so we will believe you common sense about Tony not being real.
Please prove to everyone that your common sense is right.
@hector17dead you said " NOBODY Knows anything about Tony" Hmmm let me see there is a video here that shows Tony teaching Shonie Carter and Jake S. Oh did I say Jake? Yeah thats Jake. Well in my OPINION Jake assassinated a character that is supposed to be a NOBODY then capitalized on selling and getting money from. Thats my opinion I can't prove it unless my name is Hector
@amci06042 Just get over it. Phony Cecchine will never be on the cover of any magazine. He'll just be known by a very select circle. It's not like Martial Arts "experts" will ever praise Phony Cecchine. The big laugh is that your ONLY mad because it's all true. Phony Cecchine will never have a wrestling match. It's asking too much out of the "expert catch wrestler". Just keep playing dumb.
@hector17dead Ha ha ha Hector,you are introducing a new topic! Lets go back to basics. You said He is Phony but Lou a world champion said he is hooker. So WHO ARE YOU?Again and again I asked. This because if you are a world class grappler then you have the credibility otherwise your claim HOLDS nothing!
Next you said that Tony claimed he was taught by LOU - where is the PROOF? Hector is this hard answer?
Magazine? Black belt magazine and American fitness magazine had Tony before. Hehe
@hector17dead You said " Im just stating my opinion" , this is what you said. Based on what? You said based on common sense. Let's see I have another one.
You posted " Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows."
Also " Tony is mad at scientific wrestling cause they have careers!"
Hector please shown everyone here that is an OPINION and not allegations. Please prove this!
@amci06042 Where do you base your lies, and drivel on? I already told you where you can find all of Phony Cecchine's lies. Stop playing dumb. I wasn't on that stupid video. That guy on that video doesn't even look like Phony Cecchine.
@hector17dead Show me where I lied? I have not lied I don't need to. I just exposed you is that a lie. I said that you been assassinating Tony in both you tube and amazon. Is this a lie. Everything else that I posted are all to refute your claim e.g - Tony claimed he was taught by lou, Tony is mad at scientific wrestling because they have a career. I asked you where is the evidence to prove all these allegations? WHERE? All your replies has satisfactory proven your claim. -
@hector17dead You said " I wasn't on that stupid video " Who said your were on that video? I only said Shonie and JAKE were there. So this means that my hunch is right, you are JAKE!
You been exposed JAKE! Now I know why you are so passionate in putting down Tony.
@hector17dead In proving a claim one has to give evidence that must pass scrutiny and cross examination. POINTING where the evidence is not equivalent to ACCEPTABLE evidence. What you did is to point where I can look for it BUT upon closer examination your so called evidence is not there much more has not pass the requirement for it to be an evidence. So Hector again you have not given any SATISFACTORY evidence to your claims. Must I lecture with this. This is common sense.
@hector17dead Hector what is TRUE your opinion based on your common sense HA HA Ha. I should get mad at that? Ha ha ha. Please prove to use that you opinion based on common sense is true ha ha ha,. YOU are the one mad cause Lou never said HECTOR is correct, He said Tony is a hooker. No matter what you say Lou said He is a hooker ha ha ha
@hector17deadDumb? dumb like someone who alleges something then he said he can prove it then later will claim that its just an opinion. Thats what dumb is. Again only a dumb can post this " Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows." and claim that this is an opinion. Thats DUMB!
Only dumb person can CONTRADICT himself.
You been exposed you do nothing but character assassinate Tony with out facts. You also been exposed how you contradict yourself. You are the fraud.
@amci06042 #1 I saw that stupid video. I can't find Jake Shannon anywhere. #2) Phony Cecchine isn't shit, by that he's not a "Proven", "Accomplished" "Athlete" at all. Just get over it. #3) You can't prove shit about yourself either. Get over it. 4) You took all my putdowns and rewrote them. 5) Phony Cecchine will never have 1 single fight.
@hector17dead I can prove to you that Jake is there. Prove to me Jake is not there. Are you blind? What have you been smoking? 2. Prove to me your point number #2? Your just alleging again without proof or evidence. You item #3 I dont need to prove anything to you I did not accuse Tony, I did not accuse any one. All a saying is that Lou said Tony is a hooker. How about you?
5) Bruce Lee, Morehei Ueshiba,Jigaro Kano, Takeda never had tournament but they been tested. Like Tony they been tested
@amci06042 I saw that stupid video. I still can't take Phony Cecchine seriously. He probably paid that guy money to act like he's in pain or something. I honestly will never take that snake oil salesman seriously. I feel bad for people who do. Trying to learn wrestling locks off Phony Cecchine is like trying to learn auto repair from a woman.
@hector17dead "He probably paid that guy money to act like he's in pain or something." Another one of your allegation that you claim as opinion based on common sense? Please prove to us he paid the guy money to act he is hurting. One of the guy is a UFC fighter. Are you alleging Tony pays more money than UFC so the guy will act? Get real man.
As they say -> for those who understand to explanation is needed. For those who doesn't want to understand no explanation is enough.
@hector17dead I still can't take an allegation from a nobody like you Hector. You have not shown that you are w a world class grappler credible enough to accuse Tony. Yet you talked like one. Also you have not proven to us here that claim regarding Tony claiming he was taught by Lou is true. All you you do is character assassinate Tony. Im pretty sure there is money behind it. Are you losing DVD sales? Is the business of hypnotism not getting enough money? Walk the talk man. Prove it!
@hector17dead reposting! Are you avoiding these? Lets make it simple
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said
Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
@amci06042 Phony Cecchine wrote a blog. He said that Matt Furey, and Josh from S. Wrestling were all in it together but went seperate. There's no proof of that either.
I answered your questions. You CAN'T even answer mine. So you sugarcoat it. But if you can. Who did Phony Cecchine beat. Why are you so in love with a nobody like him anyways?
@hector17dead Which blog? I have not seen that. And it has nothing to do with you allegation that Tony is phony. There is no relation to the issue of you allegations or your credentials to back up you claims. No sir, you have not answered my questions, you have not shown any proof or evidence to support you claim. I answered each and every allegations you made. Let me say it again " you have not shown anything to back up your allegations". Why so much hate on Tony. Are you losing on sales?
@amci06042 Phony Cecchine made some blog where he makes 1000 claims he can't back up. All he does is rips on Matt Furey, and the scientific wrestling site. He's just riding their coattails. Why doesn't he wrestle Matt Furey, winner take all the video rights to stuff that was never recorded. Phony Cecchine can't make it without riding Lou Thesz coattails. Matt Furey can't sell his infomercial bs without riding on Karl Gotch's coattails. Don't play stupid, you know everything I said is true.
@hector17dead Hector where is the BLOG? Show us the blog! He is not ripping Matt or Scientific wrestling. Its the other way around. Where was Scientific Wrestling before LOAH? Where was Matt before LOAH. ALL of them came after that trying to ride on Catch Wrestling. Again another one of your lies that can't be proven
3. You said he is a nobody -> So question #3 So why waste your time in youtube and amazon posting he is phony. #4 Why is he a competitor? #5 Are you losing money and sales if people buys from Tony?
4. You said your motivation is "Tony bashing BJJ" - > I say now you are saying "I just don't want anybody to fall for it like I did. I got ripped off once. Then I realized this guy is nobody". You LIED! So tell me what is your real motivation?
@hector17dead Finally Hector, when go you out assassinating characters like Tony, its best to have you allegations (I call lies) back up by evidence that can't be disproved. Otherwise all you allegations are LIES fabricated to put someone down to promote his own interests. Which normally is money related. Are you selling DVD's competing with Tony or LOAH. I can't think of anything else except that. You already LIED on your motivations. What else are you hiding from us.
@amci06042 Just like you. I'm just stating MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION. Sorry if it worked that bad. You think this is going to affect Phony Cecchine sales? How many copies does he sell a year? Like 2 or 3? You've got your OWN PERSONAL OPINION. All you do is go all "Crybaby" that I talked bad about your imaginary boyfriend Phony Ceccine. Phony Cecchine can't back up anything he says. I hear these lies here and there but I just know better. It's transparent.
@hector17dead Opinion is like this " I think he is a phony because" you on the other hand both in you tube and amazon posted " He is a phony". That is NOT an OPINION. Now your changing your stance common man. Opinion is different from allegations.
Case in point "Tony cant back up his claims" -> Is this an opinion?
Cry baby? ha ha ha I challenged you to prove your allegations about tony and you call it cry baby! " He is phony" then post in you tube and amazon that is a cry baby.
@hector17dead Allow me to asked you this, If he is a nobody why waste time posting on the internet saying he is phony? Why you even go to amazon and make reviews of his DVD saying he is a phony? If he is a nobody you should not waste your time with Tony. Right? Why waste time on nobody as you claim? He is a nobody anyway leave him alone. Why can't you? You can't! Why, you have business that will affect the sales if Tony gets more sales?
The answer is you can't because he is NOT a nobody
@amci06042 So we will not lose track Hector let me make it simple:
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said
Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
3. You said he is a nobody -> So question #3 So why waste your time in youtube and amazon posting he is phony. #4 Why is he a competitor? #5 Are you losing money and sales if people buys from Tony?
@hector17dead Okay so entered tournaments, did you win? You're world champion now? Lou said Tony is a hooker. You asked who has Tony beaten? Since you say he is a phony am asking you, who have you beaten? Your credential will lay to rest your allegations on Tony. If you have beaten world class fighters and a world champion like Lou, then we have two claims both from world class fighters. Otherwise its just Lou's word and your allegations. Lou a world champion and you who entered a tournament.
@hector17dead I've asked you several times, who have you beaten? You say Tony is a phony yet you have not proven who and what are you made of. We got here Lou, a world champion saying Tony is a hooker while you, who is not a world champion and an average Joe saying Tony is phony. Are you sure of you real motivation is Tony bashing BJJ? It doesn't sound like one. It more akin to bad intention of bringing Tony down whatever it takes! Its like you are losing money if people buys Tony's DVD.
Lou only says they're friends. He never said "I taught Phony Cecchine everything I know.". Cecchine tries building himself up like the 2nd coming. But he's never had a pro match, or won a tournament or anything. When I saw Lost Art Of Hooking. I thought "What kinda guy considers a wrist lock a lost art?".
@hector17dead Tony never claimed he was taught by Lou. He was not describing the wrist lock per se when he said lost art of hooking. Its the art itself not the individual techniques. Even then his techniques differs from at the time contemporary bjj. After LOAH a lot more people are doing CACC but before that most are just doing BJJ
Hey, on the back of the box for Lost Cause of Hooking. Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows. Why else would he put this stupid video up. It's edited too. Why would people want to follow what Phony Cecchine says. He's never won a tournament or a MMA match. When you ask him about stuff like that he sugarcoats it by saying stuff like that. He'll "rephrase" what he said. I feel bad for people he's fooled.
@hector17dead I own LOAH and its not there. Can you back up your claim that he is a phony? Since your yardstick is tournament to be legitimate, have you done one yourself? Maybe Jigoro Kano is also a phony I have not heard him entering a tournament if I will use your logic to my argument.
Just curious, why are you so emotionally bothered with Tony? Also will you roll with him?
Heard alot of good and a lot of bad about Tony and his stuff, but the endorsement of Lou Thesz has to carry alot of weight. Thesz had never been a guy that was afraid to say what he thought, especially on the topic of who was a true wrestler and who wasn't. Thesz would not have complimented and associated himself with Tony if he did not think his material was up to par.
I never competed agaainst thi man. Only seen his videos, but I can tell he´s damn good. I´m sure the ass kicking I would get would be educational..He´s good.
Remember, Tony got to know Thesz when Matt Furey brought both he and Thesz in to do seminars. Thesz saw Tony go against whomever wanted to try him at all those early seminars. Furey owns the rights to the footage.
What's important here is, Thesz saw him, and is here (as he did elsewhere) attesting to just how good Tony is.
So many different points of view on cecchine. His stuff is good though no matter where he got it from. Leave all the bullshit to the side and try and learn from his videos. Just for the record - the hooking ability of Billy Robinson isn't and should never be in question, the man's a true legend and one of the only old school catch-as-catch-can guys still around.
any guy on here defending Tony C. is more then likely him with different aliases as he was outed on some mma forum sites talking him self up with different names. fraud!
@BgSchulzy Im defending him Im not Tony. If Iam to use the same reasoning to you I could say that you must be Jake S. But that is not being fair right? No Tony doesn't need to use other aliases to defend himself. He is in Chicago he is willing to meet anyone on the mat who dares challenge him.
cecchine catch I dnt care what anyone says about you brother your bringing the sport of catch back I love all types of wrestling but this is the best and by the way your uwf bushido classic I am going to buy your dvds etc.
He seemed very happy to see his art come to fruition. Catch wrestling is still a lost art amonst the masses. It's a tough style of wrestling to compete in. And that's why I believe there's not too many people in it because of the brutal submission and grueling conditioning it contains. One day I'm going to try it out but I need to focus on other elements mentally before I dig into it.
R.I.P LOU THESZ !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
AndrewsOpinion15 1 month ago
(part 2) Tony Cecchine learned catch wrestling from Stanley Radwan. So all of them have a legit knowledge of catch wrestlling. And about Jake Shannon. He believes in the style and therefore wants to help popularise catch wrestling, via Billy Robinson. I guess Jake jimself is still learning the style from Robinson, but I'm sure he will progress by the years.
So whether you learn it from Cecchine or Robinsonn (RIP Gotch), you will learn the style anyway and properly.
verhoogje86 1 month ago
in a response to all those discussions about whether Tony or Billy or someone else is a fraud or not, let's make it very clear and simple: Billy Riley's Snake Pit gymnasium has been considered legendary and n°1 in learning catch-as-catch-can style wrestling, during the past 20th century. Billy Robinson mastered the style in the Snake Pit. He was one of Billy Riley's students. The same goes for Karl Gotch. Lou Thesz learned catch wrestling from both Ad Santel and Strangler Lewis. (part 1)
verhoogje86 1 month ago
I think if Lou Thez ever had the chance to watch a guy like CM Punk wrestle, he'd be proud of him and he might even pay Punk a lil of respect, because Punk is definitely a hooker in his own right and someone that can you in a lot of different ways if he wants to or if you get on his bad side.
lildwayne21 1 month ago
the king the one and only!!!!!!!!!!! RIP:,(
i would have loved to have meet him and study with him n grapel a lil with him....
spiderman351637 3 months ago
Not really sure what the difference between "hooking" & "shooting" are, but Thesz died in 2002 while Stu Hart died in 2003. Wouldn't Stu Hart been one of the people that could tell if someone was a hooker or shooter.
I also think Lou might be off. Just cuz they don't shoot or hook doesn't mean they can't. I would have to think that Stu Hart trained guys Bret & Benoit or a guy Kurt Angle must know how to conduct themselves if the need arose.
TNO73 4 months ago
@TNO73 my understanding that the difference is that a shooter can legitimitly wrestle and can beat you; the hooker knew dangerous, unknown and oft illegal moves like "hooking" the cartilage in your nose.
Nertrender 4 months ago
@Nertrender u got it almost right but yeah thats pretty much it
spiderman351637 3 months ago
@spiderman351637 in my further quest for knowledge can you explain what exactly right would be?
Nertrender 3 months ago
Amci06042,And besides Lou what does Bill wicks,Billy Robinson, and the late great Karl Gotch has to say about Tony? Lol From what I read and heard not nice things to put it nicely. Let me guess there behind a conspiracy too to get Tony? Lol this is starting to get hilarious the more research I do on this guy. Lol
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
b7r7u7c7e With the exception of Bill Wicks, none of them has met Tony, AFIK. So again between Lou and these guys, Lou would have a better knowledge of Tony. Bill he knew Tony, Tony even arranged Bill's student to fight in pancrase. The guy lost by top wrist lock which Bill said only works for amateurs LOL!
amci06042 7 months ago
Amci06042, look at tuin699 there are 4 vidz 2 that each are almost 10minuts long that make Tony look like a clown. As an instructor myself these types are laughable, useless,comical,and embarrassing for Tony. He plainly looks like he's making it up or dosent know what he's doing. Let me guess he was having a bad day? Helio gracie has a video were at 90 grappling a man in his 30's, and looks flawless.
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e Those videos had been explained before by someone. I have nothing else to say there dude. Thanks
amci06042 7 months ago
Jj68chezchmate, I'm not talking about my ass. This is what he said himself! So your coming off like an idiot. Lol his point as well as mine is the ground game has evolved. That's why Eddie was able to beat royce brother at adcc championship when he came up with the rubber guard. Unlike you I know a lot of the gracies and talk to them when I'm in LA. Get your fact strait wanna be.
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
I respect Lou but videos don't lie. I saw a video of Tony not only doing catch & wrestling moves wrong but UNABLE to follow simple easy direction! Its one thing if your tweaking a different way to do a move but he clearly didn't know what he was doing. I was on the fence on Tony being legit because all you have is him showing moves on people who aren't moving & supporters saying they"heard"of him beating black belts & there vidz of him rolling with people BUT there not available. Come on!
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
b7r7u7c7e b7r7u7c7e Here is the comparison, Lou saw and trained with Tony for several years they are good friends. Lou personally judged Tony's capability on what he actually saw. You on the other hand judges Tony on the videos you saw of Tony here on youtube. For me there is no comparison you are judging on a small portions bits and pieces of larger video and training seminar done by Tony. Like what I said before kindly show to us why you think he sloppy. Tony did the same on other guys
amci06042 7 months ago
Anci06042, One last thing. The ground game has evolved to the point that blue belts of today would have submitted Royce gracie in the first UFC. Kids today are not only learning at a faster pace but are coming up with new ways to submit. How many different ways can you do a kimura? My point is if you don't evolve your going to look out dated.
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e I'm pretty sure Royce Gracie, a brazilian jiujitsu black belt, would still beat any blue belt out there. all of the different angles and variations of submissions have been known for a long time, stop talking out of your ass.
JJ68Czechmate 7 months ago
Amci06042,98% is from anyone point of view so yea that would apply to who you know unless your God!In the 90's Sakuraba was the best Catch wrestler alive but Americans even in MMA never heard of him. Not to dwell on the Jake thing cause again in business some people get burned I just didn't know the history till you said what you said and found the drama on line. I'm just hear to debate a video. I hope everyone is succeeds wither its Jake or Tony. Making comments is not going to effect that
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
Amci06042, I think it was like you said someone with a similar account. Yes I did roll with Jake when he ask for Neil stamp. I just didn't know the back ground with the Tony situation. Just thought he was a guy promoting Catch. You see(And I'm not talking about you)real men don't bitch about shit like that. He said she said is for girl.
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
Amci06042,What I mean when I say 98% don't know him is this. There are alot kids coming up from a BJJ,Judo,and wrestling back ground that are interested in Catch from watching old pancrase vidz, old pride fights,or vidz of Sakuraba. If you go to any grappling class or mma gym and say who's Catch everyone will say Sakuraba, Gomi,Josh,John Jones etc. I've never heard of Tony till I looked up catch online.
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e Thats 98% of the people you know. OTH about 90% of the people I hang around with knows Tony very well and Im not from Chicago. Sad but true there are people now who don't know Tony thanks to Jake who keeps on putting down Tony. Let me ask you this, why would Jake put down Tony if Tony is a fraud and insignificant? Because Jake knows Tony is not a fraud and Tony is an obstacle to his business. Shrewd shrewd person
amci06042 7 months ago
Amci06042 Jake is a business man like a lot of people,In business sometimes you get burned. If what you say is true about what jake is doing that's fuck up but it happens to lots of people. There are some people saying Neil is not catch but bjj. You think he gives a shit? He let's his grappling do the talking. People still say ken was not catch just a leg lock master. You think he gives a shit?
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e Just google Jake and S Wrestling. Yes all of the bad mouthing came from Jake yet when he was proven wrong he kept quiet. When his certifier got exposed he did not say a thing. Honest and sincere honest man he is not.
amci06042 7 months ago
Amci06042, Why would I travel from california to roll with Tony? What your not getting is there's lots of people I don't agree with there style of fighting. For example I like Franks approach than Kens, so do I need to grapple with Ken? Its just an opinion, that's all, no conspiracy. I remember this guy jake because he offered Neil money to promote his website. Neil is training Randy and some other ufc guys so jake wanted his stamp.
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e Like I said Im not being sensitive my radars are just up. So I hope your not taking this personally. I suggest that next time before you say something like your posts is deleted kindly verify your information. There are more BRUTAL things posted against Tony and was never deleted here. I'm asking for your fair judgement.
amci06042 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e I thought you said you rolled with Jake? Anyway yeah thats Jake alright, he even offered money to internet hackers who can help him hide the blogs that were exposing his modus operandi, his lies and the deceit that he did. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against him just stating a fact what Jake has been doing.
amci06042 7 months ago
I'm not here to bash Tony, just curious why he's not well known in the grappling & Catch community. The excuse that he was black balled by Jake is laughable.(98% never heard of him) Jake is a joke. If your good you get love & respect. No man can control that. Lastly why are there no vidz of Tony rolling with students or grapplers like you see the Gracies or Sakuraba doing in there vidz. I can show my granny how to do a wedge choke, put her on youtube you think she was a master!
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e I very curious how come you have not heard of Tony. Before LOAH was released Catch wrestling was not even in everyones radar. He started the Catch revival. Jake balled him thats true for what? Cause he was on his way, no one will buy from Jake the Fake is Tony is there. He has a lot videos I have seen it. He roll with them all the time. There was a video I own he said just do what you want to do, bam 20 sec later the guy tapped. I can't post it though.
amci06042 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e The absence of a video rolling live in youtube doesn't mean it does not exist nor that it means it did not happen. Cecchinecatch if Im not mistaken has video for MMA strength and also a student of Tony. He repeatedly said he rolled live with Tony. Again if Im not mistake he has won the NAGA heavy.
That's why I said you can go to Chicago and roll with Tony.
amci06042 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e 98% doesn't know him? Im interested where did you get this statistics? But there is a long list of people who knows him, I know. There is even a video of Shonie C training with Tony. Its here in youtube
amci06042 7 months ago
Amci06042, not trying to take up space just want to answer your questions. I'm one of many teachers at the Shamrock Academy in San Jose ca. We have a teacher for each style. BJJ/Judo/Boxing/Wrestling/Muay Thai. I teach my students the history of catch wrestling/Lancashine/Panlavani style. I tell them about Ad Santel/Karl Gotch/Robinson/Minoru/Inoki/Sakurab/Gene Labell/Gomi etc History is important but know a days everything is mixed even the ground fighting.
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e If you have any doubts on Tony you could call him or send him an email. There was another BJJ black belt who has a video with Tony about leg locks. He said many times Tony in his prime could tap a lot of so called world champions. He also said that for him Tony is not the best grappler but he is there on top with them
amci06042 7 months ago
Amci06042, I've rolled with Jack & he's NOT a catch wrestler or grappler & knows it. However I respect anyone who's promoting catch because I love it. Its the first grappling style I learned even though being a BJJ black belt not qualified to teach. Kamal Shalorus who is a black belt in BJJ comes down to our school to learn catch from Neil not me or the other staff. Neil is amazing and when I go to Japan is well known.
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e Everyone knows he is not a catch wrestler. A manipulator yes, hypnotist yes, shrewd businessman yes. Catch wrestler NO. There is a video of Jake attending a seminar with Tony and he can't do anything there. I've seen it. Yet he had the gall the call Tony a fraud. As it turn out his first catch certifier from Canada was not even a catch wrestler.
amci06042 7 months ago
Aci06042, I have another account but when I gave my opinion on another topic cecchinech blocked me. I've made comments on hundreds of videos but never got blocked. This is not only silly but sad. So yesterday I used my gmail account. I am not a world champ like Lou. I'm a black belt in BJJ/judo at Shamrock Martial Arts Academy in San Jose ca. I learned catch under the shamrocks in the mid 90's
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e Give me the URL on my PM my guess is that video was posted by someone else similar to the one posted by Cecchinecatch. I posted on the same video and was blocked. OTH I posted on all videos posted by Cecchinecatch and none was blocked. Some posts are even uglier just look below Hectordead post " Tony is fraud" post. If Cecchinecatch did not blocked that post by Hector why block yours? How worse can your post be?
amci06042 7 months ago
@KosenMaster True true I would have done the same if I was Tony. But Tony is the better man he keep quiet because he knows what he is talking about. Jake on the other hand does nothing but slander Tony and promotes scientifc wrestling. Jake will not last a minute with Tony.
amci06042 7 months ago
I speak to Neil Melanson every day.& he says Tony suspect as a true catch wrestler. He showed me a video online were Tony was clueless on basic positions!True catch wrestlers are Billy Robinson,Yoshiaki,Funuki,Suzuki the Shamrock Brothers,Guy mezger Sakuraba etc Not this guy. The fact that he deletes comments & blocks people when they make good points shows how fake & insecure he is.
b7r7u7c7e 7 months ago
@b7r7u7c7e First the video you are talking was not posted by Tony but by someone else who accused Tony of being a fraud. He does not deletes comments it was the guy who posted it. If you will look at cecchinecatch posts there is a similar video showing that Tony knows something you can post there.
Secondly, you joining youtube this month and posted things against Tony, just Tony, is highly suspiscious. Go to Chicago and roll with Tony anytime.
Last, are you a world champion like Lou?
amci06042 7 months ago
Tony never EVER has to have a fight,Tony is someone who loves to learn and teach Catchwrestling,many many great boxing coaches NEVER fought or were not champions,nor do great champions make great coaches or teachers.I dont care what you say,Tony was on this way before anyone and I DO compete and as a competitor I can tell you Tony does know what he's doing,just watch his tapes its obvious,only someone who spends hours on the mat would be able to teach and explain the details as he does.
WrestlingGorilla 8 months ago
Let me guess, your one of those rare people. Who spent so much money to go meet Phony Cecchine in person right? So now you buy more into his lies. When I saw Lost Cause Of Hooking. All it was, like 10 hours of him talking. He keeps on putting down Gracie Jiu Jitsu then later on shows off GJJ moves. He's a total fraud. He bothers me because LAOH is a total ripoff. Why would I be scared of Phony Ceccine? He looks like he's 5 foot tall. Doesn't pose a threat to me at all.
hector17dead 9 months ago
@hector17dead sir if this is for me then you have not answered my question. I own LOAH and I didnt see anything on the back with Tony claiming he learned everything from Lou. Also have you been on a tournament? Is the tournament the only crucible for knowing whether a person is legit or not? No he is not showing a BJJ moves.
Have you met him? Where are you btw?
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Now that I know how seriously I should take you. Google "World Martial Arts Tony Cecchine". On that website, the distributor for Lost Cuase Of Hooking. It says as clear as day on the ad that Phony Cecchine is riding on Lou Thesz coattails some more. It doesn't say he's trying to "revise the art/science of Catch Wrestling.". Don't put words in my mouth, don't CHANGE THE SUBJECT.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead The website is referencing on several personnel not just Lou. Proving, that he is a legitimate catch wrestler. You on the other hand claims he is a Phony. So I am asking you what are your credentials to be an authoritative guy on spotting who is legit and who is phony. Lou is a world champion for decades and he says Tony is a hooker. You on the other hand says he is a phony. So I am asking, are you a world champion, have you beaten world class fighters in world class tournament?
amci06042 8 months ago
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amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead So help me here sir, Im open minded I want to know where you got your information about Tony being a phony as you claim. DId you get that from watching his videos? If it is tell me how and give me your credentials. One can't just take something as truth because someone said it, it has to be back up by evidence and credentials. On the other hand if not, then where did you hear or read that Tony is a phony? And I will ask those who said that the same thing, their credentials.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Once I said something negative about Phony Cecchine. Then mysteriously somebody like you comes up with all these weird claims about him. I just asked about his sales pitches. Who is this guy, why does he act like he can beat anyone with his wrist locks? He's never had one single fight SO he can't back up anything he claims. He's a total hoax. For every time I asked a question the guy got so backed up into a corner. Phony Cecchine is so transparent.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Mysteriously? What is mysterious that his friends and students are defending him? Is that mysterious? No I don't think so! What is mysterious is you Hector, every time there is a video of Tony with high rating you mysteriously appear and post Tony is a phony. Also mysterious is you again Hector in Amazon,in most if not all videos of Tony you have a review saying Tony is phony. Makes one wonder on you real motives. This is far beyond "Tony is bashing BJJ" IMO. This is bad intention
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead And BTW you don't post to ask, what you do is mysteriously appear and post he is a phony. I am the one asking you, from what point and perspective are you coming from? You have not proven beyond reasonable doubt that one is a fake until he enters a tournament. Lou Thezs said he is a hooker you said he is phony but who are you? Your not a world champion or a world class grappler yet you accuse Tony. If I am going to bet my money it would be with Lou and not with you.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 You still can't aswer a simple question like that. "Who did this guy wrestle?". Nobody, why does he act like he can beat anyone. If he's never tried. When I ask a question like that, you come up with 100 different stupid things instead of just the simple answer. Who has he ever gone through?
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Go this his website and if you really have his DVDs you can see who he wrestled and people he taught. You on the other hand doesn't have a dvd that can show your skills, you again doesn't have the record saying you are a world champion. Its very simple sir,what are you credentials that makes you an EXPERT to know who is a phony and who is not. You came back to me with a question who has he wrestlted and go on to say see he has not done anything therefore he is a fake.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 I just don't want anybody to fall for it like I did. I got ripped off once. Then I realized this guy is nobody. He's never beat anybody, he can't. All he shows is wrist locks. Your cyberstalking me and now I know your that same idiot from Amazon. NOBODY gives a rats ass about Phony Cecchine. He's a fraud. You can't even answer that question. All of his stupid claims, he can't back up anything. Your Phony Cecchine under a different name.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead You accusing me of cyber stalking? All I want was to watch youtube with Tony in it. But every time I open one there's you saying he is a phony. I went to Amazon to look for his videos but when I look at the reviews, guess WHO? YOU! Again saying he is a phony. Is that cyber stalking? You posted both in youtube and amazon that Tony is phony but when I exposed your "mis" deeds I'm cyber stalking. Ha ha ha get real! You don't need to be one to see your character assassination.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead Another one of your lies "All he shows is wrist locks" this proves you have not seen his videos yet you have the gall to posts in amazon reviews he is a phony. There are tons of submissions there . Oh before I forget you said your motivation is " Tony BASH bjj" BUT on this post you said "I just don't want anybody to fall for it like I did. I got ripped off once. Then I realized this guy is nobody".
WOW a sudden shift in your story! Why? I wonder what your real MOTIVATION is?
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead YOu said "Your cyberstalking me and now I know your that same idiot from Amazon." What are you talking about? I haven't done anything "YET" in amazon except expose your misdeeds here in youtube. You dont have to be a rocket scientist to see what you been doing around. Telling lies fabricating stories.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Then why do you care? DO YOU KNOW how I bumped into Phony Cecchine. On accident. I was looking up Pankration one day. Just to see what popped up. Then Phony Cecchine, and Jim Arvinitis pops up. Neither of them ever beat anyone. I saw that joke of a video Lost Cause Of Hooking. It's like 10 hours of him just speaking. A wrist lock here or there, that's supposed to be a "Lost Art"?
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead You can't answer my you attacked Tony and can't leave him alone when you say he is a nobody! Now you are asking me why I care? Before I answer that answer the question first why can't you leave Tony alone if what you say that he is a nobody? I did not attack Tony you did I asked why when in your allegation he is a nobody? Again just LIKE ALL your allegations you can't prove it.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead You said "Your Phony Cecchine under a different name." Prove it! I am not Tony yet you alleged that he and I are the same. If I I will use your logic, then you are Jake S. But I wont go down to your level although your motives are highly suspicious and you sound like Jake. I will not make such statement cause, unlike you, I will not accuse anyone without any evidence. I will not dishonestly attack someone and use it to further my cause. I will not CONFUSE people with LIES.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 You already "attacked" me to "further your cause". You couldn't even answer 1 single question. Who did Phony Cecchine wrestle?
Or why did you fall for all of his lies?
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Sir, I did not attack you. You attacked Tony I challenged all your allegations. Yet up to now you can't prove anything. For someone who is PASSIONATE about getting proof of one's claim you on the other hand are not doing it. You should practice what you preach. Show evidence to your claim
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 I can prove anything I say. Your the one who can't handle a single question. Who has Phony Cecchine ever wrestled. Or WHY DOES HE THINK HIS METHODS WORK at all? Theres the real question. You can't prove it. My personal opinion is he's the worse "Martial Artist" ever. He's a fraud. He's the only guy who has anything good to say about himself. Lou Thesz took photos with Gene LeBell before he died. Why didn't he do that with Phony C? He must be really senile in this video.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Ha ha ha OMG hector do you even read your posts? Look here " I can prove anything I say" Also on the same post you said "My personal opinion is he's the worse "Martial Artist" ever" In addition to this you previous post said " I'm just stating MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION" Hector you are CONTRADICTING yourself. How can you say Im voicing my OPINION and they say I can prove everything I say? Hector not only are you a master of lies you are also a master of CONTRADICTION
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead What is an OPINION "a view or judgment formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge" You said you can prove anything that you say, you also said I 'am voicing out my OPINION.
Oh BTW Lou said "Tony is a hooker" He did not say Gene is a hooker he said TONY!
And you, not even a world class wrestler accuses TONY! Prove your OPINION if you can.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 So in your HONEST Opinion your Saying Phony Cecchine can't hold a candle to Gene LeBell? Bwahhahahahahha Just get over it. Your worshiping a complete zero. Gene LeBell is in the same league as Lou Thesz. You just confessed how much of an imbecile you are.
hector17dead 8 months ago
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amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead"So in your HONEST Opinion your Saying Phony Cecchine can't hold a candle to Gene LeBell?"
Ha ha ha get real Hector I did not say that ha ha ha. introducing a new topic eh, nice try, but IT did NOT answer the questions nor did it answer the mysterious OPINION that turned to ALLEGATIONS that turned to FACTS ha haha . Show us the EVIDENCE where you said Tony claimed he was taught by LOU and that you are WORLD CLASS grappler to say Tony is phony. So far you have not shown ANY!
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead Do you lack sleep? All along you been saying that Tony is phony when I asked where you based it you said you are just stating an opinion BASED on common sense. Thats really heavy man, I think I should believe you after all Lou is just a world champion that said Tony is hooker. Yeah your OPINION has more credibility its based on COMMON SENSE.
Thank you Hector for giving us this information. We really owe your opinion and common sense. You also did not contradict yourself.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 I NEVER NEVER EVER Said I'm a pro fighter. Are you? You can't back up ANY of the shit you talk. That stupid video with "Shoney Carter" or whoever. That doesn't prove anything. All black guys look alike. How can I tell that, that's even him. I didn't find J. Shannon on there anywhere. That guy's bald, where is he? Phony Cecchine is the only guy who says, -or retracts- Acting like Lou Thesz taught him everything. Stop playing dumb, get your head out of your ass.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead HA ha ha I did not say you're a pro fighter I am asking for your credibility since you accused him of being a fraud. You said thats your opinion based on common sense! Lou said he is a hooker. So you have to be at par with Lou to say that Tony is NOT a hooker. So I asked what is your credibility?
OMG Hector you don't even know how Tony looks like and you're claiming he is a fraud. Isn't this the height of hypocrisy. Either that your your just blind.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead You said "NOBODY knows Tony". That video has proven that Shonie Carter and Jake Shannon knows Tony. This DEBUNKED your claim.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead " I NEVER NEVER EVER Said I'm a pro fighter " I rest my CASE. You are NOT a pro fighter ACCUSING Tony of being a fraud.
Lou a world champion said he is a HOOKER!
No contest Hector.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead You said "I can prove anything I say" - So SHOW IT
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead You really sound like the founder of S Wrestling, just my OPINION! I can't prove it of course, its an opinion. My common sense says that the two of you are one of the same, but I can't prove it. It's just my common sense. Unless of course I have an evidence. Or my name is Hector!
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead So we will not lose track Hector let me make it simple:
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said
Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
amci06042 8 months ago
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amci06042 8 months ago
Respond to this video...To each his own dude. If you are bothered on what Tony says on his video make your own video and bash Catch.
Just curious though. Your motivation to attack Tony is because he says a lot of things about BJJ. Yet Catch in general will say a lot of bad things about BJJ. Yet you only attack Tony. It also make me wonder why you are subscribed to Scientific wrestling and not say anything about Catch.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Who has Phony Cecchine ever beat again? Oh that's right NOBODY. He's just riding Lou Thesz coat tails. Why does he act like he can beat anyone?
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead @hector17dead hmmm Lou said Tony is a hooker. And thats Lou he competed for so many years. You said Tony is a phony. Have you competed? For how long? What are your credentials? In other words how good are you to spot a phony?
You said Tony claimed he was taught by Lou at the back of LOAH. Its not there, can you prove your claim?
You said Tony didn't enter a tournament therefore he is a fraud. I've been asking you, have you been in a tournament? What your achievement? No replies!
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 All Lou Thesz says is that they were good friends. He never said word for word "I taught Phony Cecchine everything he knows.". Watch it again. My "motivation to attack" Phony Cecchine. He's a total fraud. DON'T CHANGE THE SUBJECT OR PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH. I've been in tournaments and been ganged up on street fights. Phony Cecchine is mad at scientificwrestling because those guys DID HAVE CAREERS, and CAN BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS Phony Cecchine is a hoax.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Watch, Lou said " Tony is a hooker". Im not changing the topic, you said
"Hey, on the back of the box for Lost Cause of Hooking. Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows." - > I told you I own LOAH its not there, I asked for a proof where you got that you did not reply. Instead you went to say on his website he is riding on Lou, you failed to show the proof I was asking for and introduce a new topic with Tony riding on Lou.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 No it is on that site, you obviously didn't see it. There was the proof. It's on the same as on the box.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead There you are again,its on the website you and in the box. Alleging I have not seen it. Im looking at the box and the website. On both the box and the website, Tony never claimed that he was taught by LOU as you alleged. You alleged Tony CLAIMED he was taught by LOU on both occasion. Tell you what its not there. Here is the site that you alleged show me where he said " I was taught by Lou" . Please show me wherewww,catchwrestle,com/?page_id=127
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead watch again, Lou said he is a hooker. He never said Tony is phony. Tony never claimed he was taught by Lou. You posted before that Tony claimed he was taught by Lou on the back of "LOAH". I own LOAH its not there I asked for proof you didn't reply. Im not putting words on your mouth or changing the topic here is what you posted ""Hey, on the back of the box for Lost Cause of Hooking. Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows." So where is that box?
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Phony Cecchine did claim he was taught by Lou Thesz. This video is edited by the way.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Where dude? Where is the claim made by Tony? You said its in the back of LOAH its not there! You said its in his website still not there! You have not shown anything to substantiate your claim. All that you said were allegations and innuendo. Your claim -about Tony saying he was taught by Lou - can't be proven. Give me an evidence where Tony "explicitly" said he was taught by Lou. Exactly how you alleged it to be and not anything else.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead So here you are again with allegations -> "Phony Cecchine is mad at scientificwrestling because those guys DID HAVE CAREERS, and CAN BACK UP THEIR CLAIMS " So where did you get this information? Did Tony tell you that he is mad at S. Wrestling cause they have careers? Can you prove this? So you know people from S. Wrestling right? You can't say they have careers unless you them right? Corollary to that, this means you know Tony?otherwise how can you say he doesn't have a career?
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Dan Severn made an instructional video for S. Wrestling. Or is he a phony? Hell he was in the first UFC tournaments. Phony Cecchine never had a fight. Where is it? I can't find it anywhere? Phony Cecchine wrote some blog about how he hates Scientific Wrestling and says this and that about Jake Shannon. In your book Phony Cecchine is a somebody huh? I guess Bas Rutten, Erik Paulson, or Dan Severn are nobody's huh?
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Ha ha ha Another one of you great innuendo! I never said that Dan, Bas or Eric Paulson are nothing! Where did I make such a claim? You are now alleging that I'm making one and conveniently changing the topic ha ha ha. OMG! What are you doing man? Corollary to that, Dan, Bas or Eric Paulson never said Tony is a phony. Have they? You on the other hand, accuse Tony of being a phony and you have not proven yourself being on the same level as them. Who have you beaten anyway?
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 The other day Phony Ceccchine walks into a bar. He tries impressing girls by saying he's a wrestler. They ask "Who did you beat?". Then he trails off and stumbles on his own feet saying. "Just take my word for it I can beat anybody". Thank God they had more brains than to fall for his garbage. Too bad you couldn't be that smart.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Ha ha ha Hector common man, when and where did it happen? Where you there? Or this is another one of your crazy stories about Tony. Were you there when it happened. Do you have a video or audio of this happening? Stop propagating lies. This did not happen and there is no way you can prove it. LIES man lies pure lies. I'm smart enough not to tell LIES honest enough not to make stories about someone.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead Are you avoiding these? Lets make it simple
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said
Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead You said " The other day Phony Ceccchine walks into a bar. He tries impressing girls by saying he's a wrestler. " You talked as if you were there dude. Prove it. Which bar in Chicago time and place street name. Prove it Hector! Im pretty sure you can NOT! Like all your allegations, lies and fabricated stories of Tony.
Im pretty sure this did not happen and its fabricated by you or you will say I got a guy who witnessed it.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 It was a joke, did that actually get sand in your mangina?
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Now its a joke, ha ha ha. Another change of topic cause you can't prove that it did really happen.
How about this " Tony hates Scientific wrestling cause they have careers " you posted this the other time. Is this a joke too? I asked you did Tony tell you this? He didn't yet you came up with this story. I won't be surprised if you day this is another joke that came from you #nus!
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 I already told you what to Google. Tony wrote a blog in RESPONSE to the one that J Shannon did. Now your making even less sense. LISTEN. ANYONE with 1/2 a brain will ask himself questions before they buy a Instructional DVD set. I'm not going to invest good money into garbage. It was rare that I ever heard anybody say anything about Tony Cecchine. He's his own biggest fan. Even on here he owns this channel and he makes false claims.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead The burden of proof is in your hands hector not on me. You said there is a blog where Tony attack Jake S and Matt SHOW it to us.
Show it here, so people can see the truth. LIKE when Jake said Tony is a Phony then created his S. Wrestling then made certifications with a guy from Canada. Who turned out to be the real PHONY. How could jake fall for it when he was the one who was (like you) very passionate on asking Tony for proof. I wonder why. Please show us!
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead LIES lies lies, fabricated story by a great story teller must have imagining things. Take make word drugs and alcohol are not good for you. Only a drunk and doped person could make up stories like this.
Where and which bar in Chicago did you see this happen? You could not even answer my questions below. This and LIES that you made like " Tony is mad with Scientific wrestling because they have careers" are now being exposed. I asked you when did Tony tell you this? No answer!
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 If you want to find that stupid blog that Phony Cecchine wrote, where he made like 100 false claims. Google Tony Cecchine "Unscientific Wrestling" blog. He makes outrageous claims with nothing to back it up. That 40 year old loser is all smoke, and no cigar.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Ha ha ha can't back up the claim man? What blog? You mean the ONE written by Jake S? Jake wrote it ( or you?) not Tony. You SAID "Tony wrote a BLOG" where is the blog written by him? You seem to know a lot about Tony hmmm makes me wonder.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 NOBODY KNOWS Anything about Phony Cecchine. He's too scared to talk about his career because he knows it's imaginary. He never had a career, he never beat anyone, but he rides on coattails of Lou Thesz. I guess when I "Attack his character". I guess I'm saying common sense things huh. Truth that will keep someone from watching him or even think about buying one of his Phony wrist lock DVDs
hector17dead 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hector17dead Another CONTRADICTION -> I'm just stating MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION. Sorry if it worked that bad. And then you also said now "I "Attack his character"- Finally you admitted your attacking Tony.
Also you said your attack is BASED on COMMON SENSE, yet you said you can PROVE it.
Hey hey hey Three cheers to hector for the lies and contradictions.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead Nobody KNOWS Tony? As in NOBODY? I will prove you that you are wrong. Watch the video here it shows Lou saying "Tony is doing a super job of HOOKING"
I rest my case your honor. You witness HECTOR - Please prove to us NOBODY KNOWS TONY!
Goodluck
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead please prove to us Hector that Tony is phony as you conveniently alleged! I will be glad to see if you can really prove he is a phony. You are saying that your ATTACK is based on common sense. Therefore that is your assessment of Tony's skills. So being the one assessing show us your credential to prove you are an EXPERT Catch wrestler so we will believe you common sense about Tony not being real.
Please prove to everyone that your common sense is right.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead Hector is you common sense an expert catch wrestler? You are basing your accusations on Tony from your common sense.
Please show us the people you have beaten and the championship that you had.
Lou said he is a HOOKER remember, so you have to beat Lou before people start believing you. Remember, right?
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead you said " NOBODY Knows anything about Tony" Hmmm let me see there is a video here that shows Tony teaching Shonie Carter and Jake S. Oh did I say Jake? Yeah thats Jake. Well in my OPINION Jake assassinated a character that is supposed to be a NOBODY then capitalized on selling and getting money from. Thats my opinion I can't prove it unless my name is Hector
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Just get over it. Phony Cecchine will never be on the cover of any magazine. He'll just be known by a very select circle. It's not like Martial Arts "experts" will ever praise Phony Cecchine. The big laugh is that your ONLY mad because it's all true. Phony Cecchine will never have a wrestling match. It's asking too much out of the "expert catch wrestler". Just keep playing dumb.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Ha ha ha Hector,you are introducing a new topic! Lets go back to basics. You said He is Phony but Lou a world champion said he is hooker. So WHO ARE YOU?Again and again I asked. This because if you are a world class grappler then you have the credibility otherwise your claim HOLDS nothing!
Next you said that Tony claimed he was taught by LOU - where is the PROOF? Hector is this hard answer?
Magazine? Black belt magazine and American fitness magazine had Tony before. Hehe
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead You said " Im just stating my opinion" , this is what you said. Based on what? You said based on common sense. Let's see I have another one.
You posted " Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows."
Also " Tony is mad at scientific wrestling cause they have careers!"
Hector please shown everyone here that is an OPINION and not allegations. Please prove this!
Please prove to everyone here that this is
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Where do you base your lies, and drivel on? I already told you where you can find all of Phony Cecchine's lies. Stop playing dumb. I wasn't on that stupid video. That guy on that video doesn't even look like Phony Cecchine.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Show me where I lied? I have not lied I don't need to. I just exposed you is that a lie. I said that you been assassinating Tony in both you tube and amazon. Is this a lie. Everything else that I posted are all to refute your claim e.g - Tony claimed he was taught by lou, Tony is mad at scientific wrestling because they have a career. I asked you where is the evidence to prove all these allegations? WHERE? All your replies has satisfactory proven your claim. -
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead You said " I wasn't on that stupid video " Who said your were on that video? I only said Shonie and JAKE were there. So this means that my hunch is right, you are JAKE!
You been exposed JAKE! Now I know why you are so passionate in putting down Tony.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead In proving a claim one has to give evidence that must pass scrutiny and cross examination. POINTING where the evidence is not equivalent to ACCEPTABLE evidence. What you did is to point where I can look for it BUT upon closer examination your so called evidence is not there much more has not pass the requirement for it to be an evidence. So Hector again you have not given any SATISFACTORY evidence to your claims. Must I lecture with this. This is common sense.
amci06042 8 months ago
Comment removed
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead Hector what is TRUE your opinion based on your common sense HA HA Ha. I should get mad at that? Ha ha ha. Please prove to use that you opinion based on common sense is true ha ha ha,. YOU are the one mad cause Lou never said HECTOR is correct, He said Tony is a hooker. No matter what you say Lou said He is a hooker ha ha ha
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17deadDumb? dumb like someone who alleges something then he said he can prove it then later will claim that its just an opinion. Thats what dumb is. Again only a dumb can post this " Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows." and claim that this is an opinion. Thats DUMB!
Only dumb person can CONTRADICT himself.
You been exposed you do nothing but character assassinate Tony with out facts. You also been exposed how you contradict yourself. You are the fraud.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Okay, I'll bite. Where is the Phony Cecchine/ Jake Shannon video?
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead From 00:30 to 1:09 You can Jake S here with all the guys including Shonie Carter. Tony is demonstrating a technique.
watch?v=ukdD4T9dTfo
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 #1 I saw that stupid video. I can't find Jake Shannon anywhere. #2) Phony Cecchine isn't shit, by that he's not a "Proven", "Accomplished" "Athlete" at all. Just get over it. #3) You can't prove shit about yourself either. Get over it. 4) You took all my putdowns and rewrote them. 5) Phony Cecchine will never have 1 single fight.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead I can prove to you that Jake is there. Prove to me Jake is not there. Are you blind? What have you been smoking? 2. Prove to me your point number #2? Your just alleging again without proof or evidence. You item #3 I dont need to prove anything to you I did not accuse Tony, I did not accuse any one. All a saying is that Lou said Tony is a hooker. How about you?
5) Bruce Lee, Morehei Ueshiba,Jigaro Kano, Takeda never had tournament but they been tested. Like Tony they been tested
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 I saw that stupid video. I still can't take Phony Cecchine seriously. He probably paid that guy money to act like he's in pain or something. I honestly will never take that snake oil salesman seriously. I feel bad for people who do. Trying to learn wrestling locks off Phony Cecchine is like trying to learn auto repair from a woman.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead "He probably paid that guy money to act like he's in pain or something." Another one of your allegation that you claim as opinion based on common sense? Please prove to us he paid the guy money to act he is hurting. One of the guy is a UFC fighter. Are you alleging Tony pays more money than UFC so the guy will act? Get real man.
As they say -> for those who understand to explanation is needed. For those who doesn't want to understand no explanation is enough.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead I still can't take an allegation from a nobody like you Hector. You have not shown that you are w a world class grappler credible enough to accuse Tony. Yet you talked like one. Also you have not proven to us here that claim regarding Tony claiming he was taught by Lou is true. All you you do is character assassinate Tony. Im pretty sure there is money behind it. Are you losing DVD sales? Is the business of hypnotism not getting enough money? Walk the talk man. Prove it!
amci06042 8 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@hector17dead reposting! Are you avoiding these? Lets make it simple
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said
Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Phony Cecchine wrote a blog. He said that Matt Furey, and Josh from S. Wrestling were all in it together but went seperate. There's no proof of that either.
I answered your questions. You CAN'T even answer mine. So you sugarcoat it. But if you can. Who did Phony Cecchine beat. Why are you so in love with a nobody like him anyways?
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Which blog? I have not seen that. And it has nothing to do with you allegation that Tony is phony. There is no relation to the issue of you allegations or your credentials to back up you claims. No sir, you have not answered my questions, you have not shown any proof or evidence to support you claim. I answered each and every allegations you made. Let me say it again " you have not shown anything to back up your allegations". Why so much hate on Tony. Are you losing on sales?
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Phony Cecchine made some blog where he makes 1000 claims he can't back up. All he does is rips on Matt Furey, and the scientific wrestling site. He's just riding their coattails. Why doesn't he wrestle Matt Furey, winner take all the video rights to stuff that was never recorded. Phony Cecchine can't make it without riding Lou Thesz coattails. Matt Furey can't sell his infomercial bs without riding on Karl Gotch's coattails. Don't play stupid, you know everything I said is true.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Hector where is the BLOG? Show us the blog! He is not ripping Matt or Scientific wrestling. Its the other way around. Where was Scientific Wrestling before LOAH? Where was Matt before LOAH. ALL of them came after that trying to ride on Catch Wrestling. Again another one of your lies that can't be proven
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead lets make it simple continuation:
3. You said he is a nobody -> So question #3 So why waste your time in youtube and amazon posting he is phony. #4 Why is he a competitor? #5 Are you losing money and sales if people buys from Tony?
4. You said your motivation is "Tony bashing BJJ" - > I say now you are saying "I just don't want anybody to fall for it like I did. I got ripped off once. Then I realized this guy is nobody". You LIED! So tell me what is your real motivation?
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead Finally Hector, when go you out assassinating characters like Tony, its best to have you allegations (I call lies) back up by evidence that can't be disproved. Otherwise all you allegations are LIES fabricated to put someone down to promote his own interests. Which normally is money related. Are you selling DVD's competing with Tony or LOAH. I can't think of anything else except that. You already LIED on your motivations. What else are you hiding from us.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 Just like you. I'm just stating MY OWN PERSONAL OPINION. Sorry if it worked that bad. You think this is going to affect Phony Cecchine sales? How many copies does he sell a year? Like 2 or 3? You've got your OWN PERSONAL OPINION. All you do is go all "Crybaby" that I talked bad about your imaginary boyfriend Phony Ceccine. Phony Cecchine can't back up anything he says. I hear these lies here and there but I just know better. It's transparent.
hector17dead 8 months ago
@hector17dead Opinion is like this " I think he is a phony because" you on the other hand both in you tube and amazon posted " He is a phony". That is NOT an OPINION. Now your changing your stance common man. Opinion is different from allegations.
Case in point "Tony cant back up his claims" -> Is this an opinion?
Cry baby? ha ha ha I challenged you to prove your allegations about tony and you call it cry baby! " He is phony" then post in you tube and amazon that is a cry baby.
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead Allow me to asked you this, If he is a nobody why waste time posting on the internet saying he is phony? Why you even go to amazon and make reviews of his DVD saying he is a phony? If he is a nobody you should not waste your time with Tony. Right? Why waste time on nobody as you claim? He is a nobody anyway leave him alone. Why can't you? You can't! Why, you have business that will affect the sales if Tony gets more sales?
The answer is you can't because he is NOT a nobody
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 So we will not lose track Hector let me make it simple:
1> You said he is a phony - I say who are you to make such allegations. Lou said
Tony is a hooker. Lou is a world champion. So question #1. Are you a world champion or an expert?
2.> You said he claimed he was taught by Lou, it on the back of LOAH and on his website - I say he didn't say that. I am holding LOAH and looking at his website. Its not there. So # 2. Show me where Tony explicitly said he was taught by Lou.
amci06042 8 months ago
@amci06042 continuation:
3. You said he is a nobody -> So question #3 So why waste your time in youtube and amazon posting he is phony. #4 Why is he a competitor? #5 Are you losing money and sales if people buys from Tony?
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead Okay so entered tournaments, did you win? You're world champion now? Lou said Tony is a hooker. You asked who has Tony beaten? Since you say he is a phony am asking you, who have you beaten? Your credential will lay to rest your allegations on Tony. If you have beaten world class fighters and a world champion like Lou, then we have two claims both from world class fighters. Otherwise its just Lou's word and your allegations. Lou a world champion and you who entered a tournament.
amci06042 8 months ago
Respond to this video...You hated Tony for "bashing" GJJ/BJJ. Most Catch wrestlers do yet you only attack Tony.
So what do you think of Scientific wrestling videos? Any thoughts on them?
amci06042 8 months ago
@hector17dead I've asked you several times, who have you beaten? You say Tony is a phony yet you have not proven who and what are you made of. We got here Lou, a world champion saying Tony is a hooker while you, who is not a world champion and an average Joe saying Tony is phony. Are you sure of you real motivation is Tony bashing BJJ? It doesn't sound like one. It more akin to bad intention of bringing Tony down whatever it takes! Its like you are losing money if people buys Tony's DVD.
amci06042 8 months ago
Lou only says they're friends. He never said "I taught Phony Cecchine everything I know.". Cecchine tries building himself up like the 2nd coming. But he's never had a pro match, or won a tournament or anything. When I saw Lost Art Of Hooking. I thought "What kinda guy considers a wrist lock a lost art?".
hector17dead 9 months ago
@hector17dead Tony never claimed he was taught by Lou. He was not describing the wrist lock per se when he said lost art of hooking. Its the art itself not the individual techniques. Even then his techniques differs from at the time contemporary bjj. After LOAH a lot more people are doing CACC but before that most are just doing BJJ
amci06042 9 months ago
@amci06042
Hey, on the back of the box for Lost Cause of Hooking. Phony Cecchine claims that Lou Thesz taught him everything he knows. Why else would he put this stupid video up. It's edited too. Why would people want to follow what Phony Cecchine says. He's never won a tournament or a MMA match. When you ask him about stuff like that he sugarcoats it by saying stuff like that. He'll "rephrase" what he said. I feel bad for people he's fooled.
hector17dead 9 months ago
@hector17dead I own LOAH and its not there. Can you back up your claim that he is a phony? Since your yardstick is tournament to be legitimate, have you done one yourself? Maybe Jigoro Kano is also a phony I have not heard him entering a tournament if I will use your logic to my argument.
Just curious, why are you so emotionally bothered with Tony? Also will you roll with him?
amci06042 9 months ago
Heard alot of good and a lot of bad about Tony and his stuff, but the endorsement of Lou Thesz has to carry alot of weight. Thesz had never been a guy that was afraid to say what he thought, especially on the topic of who was a true wrestler and who wasn't. Thesz would not have complimented and associated himself with Tony if he did not think his material was up to par.
MDAC1012 10 months ago
I never competed agaainst thi man. Only seen his videos, but I can tell he´s damn good. I´m sure the ass kicking I would get would be educational..He´s good.
hoghash78 11 months ago
I thought Billy Robinson taught Sakuraba at the snake pit in japan
antowalk 11 months ago
So... who here as wrestled Tony and can attest to him being either good or bad?
LordGodStronghold 1 year ago
@LordGodStronghold
Me. He's deadly.
Remember, Tony got to know Thesz when Matt Furey brought both he and Thesz in to do seminars. Thesz saw Tony go against whomever wanted to try him at all those early seminars. Furey owns the rights to the footage.
What's important here is, Thesz saw him, and is here (as he did elsewhere) attesting to just how good Tony is.
cecchinecatch 1 year ago
So many different points of view on cecchine. His stuff is good though no matter where he got it from. Leave all the bullshit to the side and try and learn from his videos. Just for the record - the hooking ability of Billy Robinson isn't and should never be in question, the man's a true legend and one of the only old school catch-as-catch-can guys still around.
YorkshireGripper 1 year ago
any guy on here defending Tony C. is more then likely him with different aliases as he was outed on some mma forum sites talking him self up with different names. fraud!
BgSchulzy 1 year ago
@BgSchulzy Are you retarded? If Lou Thesz says this guy is for real then I'm gonna go with him. Not some stupid internet forum.
kirokyukan 1 year ago
@BgSchulzy Im defending him Im not Tony. If Iam to use the same reasoning to you I could say that you must be Jake S. But that is not being fair right? No Tony doesn't need to use other aliases to defend himself. He is in Chicago he is willing to meet anyone on the mat who dares challenge him.
amci06042 9 months ago
cecchine catch I dnt care what anyone says about you brother your bringing the sport of catch back I love all types of wrestling but this is the best and by the way your uwf bushido classic I am going to buy your dvds etc.
ShootEncylopedia 1 year ago
he is a real wrestling legend
FUCK JOHN CENA i bet lou thesz could have beaten him today (if he was alive) as 94 year old man
arrafatter 1 year ago
RIP lou
TheRagev3 1 year ago
Has anyone heard of a book or movie called "When Pro Wrestlers Had Cauliflower Ears"? I've heard the title before..
ESWEfounder 1 year ago 2
He seemed very happy to see his art come to fruition. Catch wrestling is still a lost art amonst the masses. It's a tough style of wrestling to compete in. And that's why I believe there's not too many people in it because of the brutal submission and grueling conditioning it contains. One day I'm going to try it out but I need to focus on other elements mentally before I dig into it.
dagreatcapri82 2 years ago
Honestly-Lou Thesz-thee best catch wrestler.
From the Judo nation-who we still have a standing draw with our catch wrestling freinds.
No malice meant-i love catch wrestling.
Not BJJ though :)
judopathoftruth 2 years ago
Are there any vids showing how to apply to mma?
PrsFenderJackson1980 2 years ago
@PrsFenderJackson1980 Click on the name of the poster to go to a whole channel of them.
cecchinecatch 2 years ago