Tips for Conducting an Orchestra : Hand Movements to Conduct an Orchestra

[SingingUnnie]

LOL WHAT ARE YOU DOING BRO

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 As a side, I wish there were an easier way to view conversations. This format is really bad.

For the record, I'm a conductor, composer, and advocate of fine art music. My education included a program with a very demanding history chair, who was equally a devious as a graduate studies professor.

The point is that every time you write/speak about music to the unwashed, you're acting as an ambassador for the art. We already have enough difficulty filling seats as it is...

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla Well, you are making a fuss about this, sorry, but that is how I feel. And yeah, I expressed myself in a way that, literally interpreted, indicated that it's either the concert master or the harpsichordist who conducts, but that was a generalisation. And I am usually nice about criticism but that guy had a bad and derogatory attitude and if I've been rude to you it's cause this is starting to get on my nervs.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 I don' think you've been rude and I merely continued the conversation because you did. As you backed up your arguments, they became less stable. If I were to let some of the stuff you said go, someone might read your comment and get the wrong impression, which only exacerbates a lack of understanding.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla "For the record" I'm also educated in music, not as broadly as you but I've been thaugt to play and conduct and theory for x years. I play in a chamber orchestra and composed and conducted an opera this spring. Still, I don't understand what merit's got to dowith this.

Yet, even the most democratic orchestra needs someone who controlls tempi and dynamics, there is always some sort of leadership, even if there is a democratic decision behind it, but those are just technicalities.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 I was answering a question posed by you.You ask who I was to call you misguided. Merit has a lot to do with it. Anyone can post anything they want on YouTube. There are expectations with degree programs. Academic merit is incredibly relevant in the musical world.

Some democratic orchestras make decisions entirely collectively. Most, these days, elect a given leader from the orchestra based on the qualifications of the person in relationship to the music at hand.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla I do hope, though, that we can come to an end with this now, I'm getting quite tired of this. I give you that what I said might be interpreted wrong and I admit that we should act as ambassadors on the net, but I made an exception with that guy and honestly I don't regret it. May we be done now? I'll let you respond if the case is that you want to add something, if there isn't - just confirm that we're done here and I'll give you the last word (which I very seldom do).

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 As I've added comments to your other comments to clear up a few things, I don't think there's much else. I'm not looking really looking for the last word or anything. I'm just trying to explain a few things that you don't seem to be quite clear on in your comments - hence, a brief summary of how most "democratic" orchestras work. It's not fair to their violas and trumpets that the violinist or keyboardist get all the credit for leadership as most ensembles don't do it that way!

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla I also have academic merit, but I'm not arrogant enough to use them as substitute for an argument. What I meant was that merit doesn't mean anything if one's statement isn't correct; you're not automatically right because you have the best merits. But STILL you're obviously not understanding what I'm saying. I didn't say violas (for example) were not part of the democratic process only that someone - someone! - needs to see to that the decisions are executed. I'm done here.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 Good that you're done, I think. There was no arrogance; that's ridiculous. You ask a legitimate question. I gave you an appropriate answer.

From my point of view, you're changing your story as you go along. I caught you and now instead of simply saying I was wrong, you've gotten mad. You wrote this, but you meant that.... It doesn't work that way in an academic background and that's my point of view. Another ex. was you saying most symphonic rep. needs a conductor. Not true.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla Hey, you live in the US and I live in sweden: our educational systems are not exactly the same. And symphonic music needs a conductor! Chamber orchestras can work without a TYPICAL conductor but still has some conductorish leadership. And that said: now I'm done here.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 If you don't be done, otherwise don't keep saying so. I'm really not trying to argue. The genre of symphonic music includes the classical repertory - symphonies of Haydn, Mozart; all of which can all be played conductorless. Also, a few orchestras make a point of playing large orchestral late and post-Romantic works with out a conductor, which can be done even though these works would have typically used a conductor.

I don't see why difference would matter.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 @moltoallegro19 I didn't see all of your posts. Read or not, but my bets placed on you reading ahead... I think you're digging a lot deeper into this then you should. I really don't understand why the differences in the educational system would matter.

You're just wrong or not clear on a couple of points. I'm not insulting your family name. I'm just trying to clarify. When you kept following up, what you said wasn't clear or was incorrect and I wanted to clarify.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla You are clearly an idiot who has to hang around the web correcting ppl who says "violin is played with a bow" just because "you can play it pizzicato too, and u saying it's played JUST with a bow makes you misguided". A person who has to do so in order to feel superior cause irl, he's a mediocrity. Well, I'm not gonna care about u anymore. I'm not a mediocrity. I'm successful and gifted and ppl around me know I'm gifted and I don't need to prove myself to you to be secure in myself.

[kenalebla]

Respond to this video...

[kenalebla]

Again, you get angry when you could do otherwise. I'm sure you're very successful and gifted and I never claimed otherwise. Yet, like many young music students, you don't appear to know some key details. From the way you present yourself, I'd assume you're pretty young (16-20 years or so) and you still have a lot to learn. There's nothing wrong with that, but there's no need to get defensive it. I'm just trying to fill you in from my understanding, which is supported by a career in music.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla I’m finished here and don’t you mind responding, cause I’m sure as hell not gonna read it.

Good day.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 I just want to be clear. I'm sure you're a good musician and I've never questioned that. My pointing out small fallacies, which may be the result of language or limited space, shouldn't determine your worth. Frankly, if I didn't appreciate your enthusiasm, I wouldn't have bothered to continue the conversation.

[Agomongo1235]

@JumpShotDude Wait so just because he's studdering makes him a person who doesn't know what he's talking about. So you're saying when you're nervouse you don't studder... huh interesting.

[JumpShotDude]

@Agomongo1235 no... the fact that he is stuttering and repeating what he said before shows his ignorance in this topic. Also he's nervous, so he's not confident on the subject yet

[Agomongo1235]

@JumpShotDude Studdering shows ignorance? How so? Just because you're nervous means you don't know what your talking about? So if I were learning Science for 20 years and studder means I don't know what I am saying?

[Matteo7419]

It's obvious that this guy definitely IS NOT a conductor... so: why is showing in a video called "expert village" the "tips for conducting an orchestra"? D'you really think it could be of any help?

[Agomongo1235]

@Matteo7419 Retards like you hsould shut up. Go to jackassvillage.

[Matteo7419]

@Agomongo1235 Thank you very much. Please could you show me the way?

[ApolyonTheSoulRender]

If you need to see an amateurvillage video to learn to conduct, you shouldn't be conducting anyone..

[owenhsmith]

he's gotta keep em together n' stuff

[jsteuernol]

Interesting how you don't mention anything about the left hand for cues.... fairly important....

L O L

[Agomongo1235]

@jsteuernol Now he doesn't you just told us. Bet he knew retards like you would say somethign like that.

[jsteuernol]

@Agomongo1235

u mad bro?

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla I'm sorry, that sounded kinda arrogant. What I meant was that I'm not totally uneducated in the art of conducting.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 I was more referring to your ignorance in writing "Oh my GOD!! What ignorance! You're obviously not a musician..." I doubt many non-musicians watch conducting videos and there's a large degree of truth to ecv1988's statement, which likely wasn't made out of ignorance but from having to suffer through many bad conductors.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla I'm not sure we actually disagree, other than you considered my original comment unercessarily rude. What I meant when responding to ecv1988 was music of larger proportions - a lot of the symphonic repetoire would be impossible to execute without a conductor. I'm not sure what you're referring to when you say I need to get my history straight (maybe that it's not always the concertmaster, but the harpsichord player or his alike in baroque...

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 Indeed, but still most of the symphonic stands playable without a conductor. That's significant.

Also, the concertmaster or keyboardist did not always lead the group. Especially in the baroque and early classical periods, the musical leadership came from the most experienced musician, regardless of instrument. Many history books and teachers gloss over this important detail, a tradition which has and continues to be personified in jazz; and, to a lesser extent popular; music.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla Still: "most of the symphonic" is not playable without a conductor of some sort - if your purpose is to make a good performance, that is.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla ... but I didn't wanna go to deep into the history of conducting, in order to make my comments shorter - and fewer). Still, someone who believes that good musicians in an orchestra alone can make a good performance to the degree that the conductor is absolutely unnecessary can't be that much of a musician, if you allow me to speculate; that is to neglect the matter of personal interpretation and someone who's actually played in a real orchestra would not say such a thing, I believe.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 Partly, my point is that you can't call someone out for a statement and then follow up with half-truths. It's kind of a "throwing the first stone" kind of thing. Your understanding of conducting history is better than his, but if you check source material I think you'll find your a bit off too.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla My God! You come back here after two months?! And how the hell am I gonna sum up the history of conducting in a youtube comment?! I know what I said wasn't an all-covering truth, but I just had to get through with my point to that guy. The history of conducting is full of variation, curiosities and developement and "conducting" has meant different things in different places as well as having varied in method; I gave ONE over-simplified example to that guy! Trust me: I know my stuff.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 Yes, sorry, I don't keep up with YouTube regularly. My point is you're not and if you can't give a better argument than accusing him of not being a musician or knowing anything about music and such, you probably just shouldn't comment. It's fine to correct someone, but if you're calling them out and replacing their understanding with incorrect information, you're not doing them - or music - any service.

Don't ask for trust. Just post correct information so you don't have to.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla Let me get you straight: your problem with me is that I made the assumption that he was not a musician when he questioned the very necessity of a conductor and that I didn't teach him all there is to know about the history of conducting, instead of, as I did, give him one example of how conducting can be performed differently from how it's more often done today? Well, I'm not gonna apologize for either one of those things, cause I don't think I've said anything unreasonable.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 I'm not trying to get you worked up. I'm saying making a comment like that doesn't really do any good. Classical music has a difficult enough time getting an audience as it is. Then you followed up with an lacking statement and continued on, mentioning the conductor of un-conducted works was always a violinist or keyboard musician, which is a common misconception. From the way you changed your answers, I got a bad impression of your history knowledge. You just seem a bitmisguided

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla And my first comment probably did do some good. That guy came here with an arrogant attitude towards conductors, clearly knowing very little about the art they practise. Me telling him he was stupid to make such assumptions without any basis probably stopped him from shouting it out like he knew everything about everything and made him realize that there's probably more to conducting than he knew of.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla I wasn't wrong when I said that baroque and classical performances today are conducted by the first violinist or the keyboardist (in the lack of a conductor), cause that's how it's done. Saying so is not to misguide someone, even though there are exceptions.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 "maybe that it's not always the concertmaster, but the harpsichord player or his alike in baroque." This written statement implies either the concertmaster or a keyboard player. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but as you wrote it that's how it stands.

As far as what you wrote, you could have simply corrected him by saying the conductor is important. You could even explain what the conductors does, instead you were harsh and said the conductor was a necessity.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 Do understand, I'm not trying to make a big fuss over this. I checked my Gmail and saw you continued on and followed up.

Obviously your very enthusiastic about music and that's great, but I'd suggest being nice and helpful with criticism. Also, and just for the record, there are several contemporary chamber ensembles in which primary musical decisions are not made my the concert master or keyboardist. These days, in fact, most are as democratic as possible (Orpheus, A Far Cry).

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla Now, leave me alone. Good day to you.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla And if I've come off as rude, I apologize, sincerely. It's just that I tend to take it as a personal insult whenever someone questions the necessity of the conductor, even though I'm not a conductor to profession. There seem to be this idea among the masses who don't know a lot about classical music that the conductor actually does nothing, and I'm just so tired of that.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla There is always a conductor. If not the modern type conductor you probably think of when hearing the word, there is always someone leading the music. You say my comment is "clearly" made in ignorance, but I assure you: as a classical musician and one who's gonna conduct an opera this spring, I'm not "ignorant" when it comes to the subject of conducting.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 The concertmaster certainty has an increased role in leadership in this sort of situation, as do all members of such an ensemble. I'm very happy for you and your opera, but I'd suggest - based on reading your comments alone - that you have a lot to learn (there's nothing wrong with that by the way). First, as a conductor your an ambassador of music - even when posting YouTube comments. Second, learn your history! Your not quite right there and you need to be before conducting.

[moltoallegro19]

@kenalebla I know some orchestras work without a conductor, but that is when playing from the pre-conducting repetoire, like Mozart, Haydn, baroque, renaissance and even some Beethoven. These works are often so simple in structure when compared to later romantic works and impressionism and so on, that they don't need a conductor to keep tempi, however: ever looked at the concert master in these performances? He/she "conducts" the performance with his/her movements and by using eye contact.

[kenalebla]

@moltoallegro19 I felt your statement to ecv1988 was quite strong and chose to respond in kind. The user made a valid and humerus point and in your explanation you stated something incorrect. Orchestras do perform without a conductor without a conductor. Also, many orchestras do perform large post-classical works without a conductor. Your really struggling to make yourself sound right here when you came out with a strong statement against someone who probably is a musician, but you don't know...

[Thetrooper14]

i think is a good video, compared to another music lessons like drums or guitar, this doesnt fail.

[ecv1988]

IF THE MUSICIANS ARE GOOD ENOUGH THEY DON'T NEED A CONDUCTOR I ALWAYS THOUGHT CONDUCTORS WERE MEANINGLESS JUST A POWER TRIP.

[sstuddert]

@ecv1988 IDIOT.

[oklahomma]

@ecv1988 um you don't know anything

[moltoallegro19]

@ecv1988 Oh my GOD!! What ignorance! You're obviously not a musician, why do you make such a strong statement about something that you obviously don't know anything about? How the h-ll would an orchestra work if there was no conductor, how would you ever achieve even a decent performance? I'm a violinist and take my word for it: the conductor is indispensable.

[ochaken0katsu]

@ecv1988 Okay, so u think that a conductor is not needed in an orchestra if the musicians is good enough, right? But.. do u ever think if there's no conductor, then the music which is played by all the musicians would be a MESS and become AWFUL to listen! Get it??

[kenalebla]

@ecv1988 Seems this got a lot of negative review... As a conductor, I understand and it's worth nothing that quite a few orchestras do play without a conductor and some that perform with would be better without...

[jslasher1]

Good comments. A bit of a worry, however, if you conduct left-handed as do it. Not many left-handed conductors about, obviously.

[BowlPirate]

ALL Expert Village videos = shit

[righteous0warrior]

@BowlPirate

Haters gonna hate

[royalconductor]

it is a joke????

[iamyouifyouareme]

Play it at 0:32 and ad 'it'.

[iamyouifyouareme]

Play 0:33 and at 'it'. God I'm so bored.

[xaxamaxax]

you say tomayto, I say tomahhto

you say diminuendo, I say... where was I

[amistrymister]

whats a decresendo? i swear its a diminuendo. stupid americans.

[AbbyITMS]

decrescendo is the same thing as diminuendo, and american's aren't stupid, just different...

[amistrymister]

yeah lol.

its just weird. over here we call a "quarter note" a crotchet etc i guess you already know.

[AbbyITMS]

Yeah, on a program we use in my music theory class, it gives the names for the british and american versions. We all laugh.

[amistrymister]

lol crotchets minims and quavers ftw totally lol

[Denkyuu]

Plus, not all of us call it a decresendo. It depends on the person.

[mravel1100]

diminuendo, decrescendo why does it matter? they both mean the same thing. give the guy a break. like you guys have conducted an orchestra before?

[mravel1100]

diminuendo, decrescendo why does it matter! seriously they both mean get softer, and quieter in soun. give the guy a break.

[atpal]

I hate to break this to anyone who might be watching, but if you learned something from this, you will never come anywhere close to an orchestra (without paying full price).

[tjq0812]

i though decrescendo can be used too?

[MrClarinetFreak]

Decrescendo is actually, not a real term. the professional uses diminuendo, the real word that orchestras, etc use to say "quieter" in sound, I mean...

Decrescendo was just used for some people that didn't know that it is a wrong term...

[NateMelo614]

@MrClarinetFreak

decrescendo |ˌdēkrəˈ sh endō|

-noun ( pl. -dos), adverb, adjective, & verb ( -dos, -doed)

another term for diminuendo : : [as n. ] faded like the decrescendo of distant thunder | [as adj. ] a decrescendo heart murmur | [as v. ] he decrescendos down to a whisper.

ORIGIN early 19th cent.: Italian, literally decreasing.

[TheAngusBurger]

I'm sorry, did he just say 'Decrescendo'? And he's an 'Expert'? It's called a Diminuendo...

[Impressionist1]

Any musician should now music expressions! Of course "decrescendo" is used, nothing wrong with that.

[NateMelo614]

@TheAngusBurger decrescendo is the best word to use...its an exact counterpoint...youre an ass...why dont you make your own conducting video if youre so Godly...?

[deucecdb]

I agree! I am American and this man is the worst excuse for a conductor that i have seen. Europe is my dream location strictly for my love of music.

[Druidmaster456]

I really want to conduct if I cant become a doctor.

thank you for posting these videos!

[kyokazumi]

@Druidmaster456

What the fuck? what does conducting have to do with being a doctor?!

[JumpShotDude]

@Druidmaster456 lol making it as a conductor is way harder than making it as a doctor. jobs for conducting is so scarce that even people who spent years in school learning conducting don't even make it as a conductor. and if you keep listening to these shit videos, you won't either.

[carmenphilomelae]

It has been my dream to conduct and orchestra for so long, thank you for posting these videos.