While I am an atheist and have no plans to change that any time soon... I appreciate the fact that you have brought this argument up. Any victim of brainwash is a victim, even if they're on your side.
Yes, Atheists exists, go to a well-run country in Europe that looks after its citizens with decent transport and health care, that has low levels of crime and incarceration and that educates them to a high level (Finland is a good example, Sweden or Switzerland too). You'll find an atheist majority there, leading happier lives and not scaring their children with fairy stories.
And most of my family belive in god and I was raised to belive that too. But I changed my mind at about 10 years old. to me the bible is just like a stupid childerens book.
People that belive in god are strange to me, and normally just raised that way.
I have a freind that baleives in god but only becasue his parents belive it. They dont let him watch anything or do anything that might make him change his mind.
This video is great. I'm an athiest, and I've been thinking the same thoughts for quite a while. My parents never tried to influence my religion, which i think is the right thing to do.
I think he's trying to tell us to think for ourselves & asking if that's what we are doing... I don't see how he's disrespecting anyone. I'm not Christian... But if he is or is not he's a thinker & that's cool!
Many people blame science for making people atheists. The fact is all athesists come to it for different reasons. I had my honours degree in science but was still a person of faith. But I lost my faith when I began to critically exam the teachings of the bible and came to my own conclusion. That I could live a far more morale life without it's teachings and no such being could possibly exist and claim to be the perfect example of love.
The amazing thing is that two different people can look at the same evidence and come to diametrically opposite conclusions. I am glad that you are able to live a far more "morale" life. I am sorry that you are unable to know the God who is the perfect example of love.
I found two forms of evidence: the logical and the factual. The logical evidence made me say, on many occasions, "hey, this doesn't make sense, it's not logical, so it might not be true after all"; bascially anything backed up by logic and reason. The factual evidence is everything I found which was backed up by history, science, etc. I admit, I might be wrong and God may exist, but the conclusion I've come to is that He doesn't.
No 8-year old can truly be an Atheist, Christian, Muslim, etc. No one that young has investigated things for themselves, they only have their parents teachings to go on, so if their parents are atheists, they will be taught that there is no God. If their parents are Christian, they will be taught there is a God, and so forth. I am an atheist and I am perfectly happy the way I am. I was raised a Christian, but I left it behind years ago because I followed the evidence.
A 38-year-old can also be an atheist or a believer because his parents were. The point John is making is that our faith should be our own, not our parents'. We should investigate and know why we believe what we believe. This is also the point of another video "Why are You a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Moslem, Atheist?" John investigated the evidence and came to faith in God and Jesus Christ. What evidence did you find?
It's pathetic to see how atheists use only the perspective of the christian or simalair religions to point out there is no 'creator'. But actualy they are saying that there is no christion god or simalair gods. and i totaly agree with that. The question must be this: Is there a possible 'creater' or 'something' that creates?
And on that point the athiest totaly fails to come with arguments that are convinsing.
Maybe they are in the Torah? The Book of Mormon? The Quran? The Vedas? The Pearl of Great Price? The Doctrine and Covenants? Why do you think God spoke to man in only one book? Have you read the other books and then prayed about them?
Atheists just don't believe in gods, that's all. All an atheist needs to start believing in a god is to show them evidence of one.
Personally, I don't believe in Unicorns, Satyrs, Cockatrices, talking snakes, and Dragons - even though the Bible says those animals are real. But show me evidence, and I'll believe.
First off, you don't know anything about me or my beliefs, so don't go there. But you just said you're not a Christian, yet you believe in Jesus and accept the Bible as 100% truth. Ok, so then what are you?
You must be using the King James Version. In KJV the Hebrew word for wild ox is mistranslated as unicorn. It's obvious this isn't correct in Deut. 33:17 where it says, 'his horns are like the horns of a unicorn' since unicorns have only one horn. KJV mistranslates the word for wild goat as satyr and viper as cockatrice. Also dragon refers to a snake or lizard but mostly it refers to the devil as does the talking snake in Genesis. But Romans 1:18-32 tells us that evidence of God is all around us.
But see, you're showing that the Bible is not the imperfect word of God, but merely a manmade book. The imperfect word of God would not be able to be corrupted or mistranslated, otherwise, it is not perfect! The Bible we have today is just a compilation of stories voted on by bishops at the Council of Nicea in order to control the populace under one unified religion.
I think you meant to say "not the PERFECT word of God." No what I am saying is that human language is imperfect and changing. English words have changed since King James' day, but ancient Hebrew and Greek don't change because they're dead languages. For most of us who can't read the original languages, there are many excellent translations today. The Council of Nicea had nothing to do with deciding what books should be in the Bible. That false information came from "The Da Vinci Code" fiction.
Lol, if you notice today's more "modern" translations, ALL the mythical creatures in the KJV have been replaced by more "acceptable" creatures. The Christians are embarrassed by their nonsense and try to clean it up.
The second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence begins, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are CREATED equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights..." Remove the Creator and you remove the very basis for the founding of our country and the rights we have. I suggest you read the book "The United States: A Christian Nation" by former US Supreme Court Justice David J. Brewer. It's available at PVPowerStore dot com and other places.
The "Creator" is never defined! The "creator" could be the planet earth or simply nature. You use the term "creator" to fit your dogma, however, Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian at all. No where does it say that we were created by God, however, most scientists would agree we were ultimately created by nature.
In the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson wrote, "the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them..." He made a distinction between nature and God. Jefferson was a closet theologian and a believer in God. He read daily from the New Testament and believed religion to be vital to society. The Continental Congress carefully considered every word he wrote before they signed the Declaration. They believed our rights came from God.
Hawkins and Einstein spoke of "God" as well and we know darn well they are not theists. "God" does not mean the Judeo Christian God anymore than it mean Allah or Vishnu. None of our rights are even supported by your Bible, especially the very 1st one. The US is not and was never a Theocracy.
You say 'Hawkins' but I think you mean Richard Dawkins (perhaps confusing the name with Stephen Hawking). Yes, Dawkins is a fanatical atheist. However, Einstein said when asked if he believed in God, 'I'm not an atheist.' He went on to give a an illustration of how we are like little children in a huge library of books knowing that someone wrote those books, but not knowing how or understanding the languages in which they are written. Read the quote on page 386 of 'Einstein' by Walter Isaacson.
This world was created through the works of a perfect creator. To suggest that he has no will for his children and/or no way to make it known to them is an insult to his brilliance.
#1 Look, I'm going to make this REAL easy for you. In college, anyone can take an American History class and read the "Three Fundamental Moral Themes" that the founding fathers based the foundations of the America upon. Oddly, none of them coincide with Biblical moral themes.
#3 The second theme is obvious as well, it's number one on the Bill of Rights:
"Everyone should be guaranteed freedom of speech, assembly, and religion."
Do you really need an explaination for this? Do you really think Jesus went around preaching Freedom of Religion? The 10 commandments are also pretty clear on which God you should be worshipping. And the Jews weren't too keen on freedom of speech, just ask Jesus.
#4 And the last may be surprising, but this was all too common in the times of our founding fathers:
"People should be punished only for their own criminal acts, not the acts of others."
This is common sense now, but back in those days, sons were often held accountable for the crimes of the fathers, especially in cases of treason. And of course, the Bible does not support this value, for all too often God condemns the innocent right along with the guilt.
#5 So really, where are all these morals you claim to get exclusively from the Bible upon which this country was built upon? I know, you're probably just reciting what you hear from your pastor, but the truth is, you should be thanking our Deist Founding Fathers for not basing our nation on Biblical teachings.
You don't understand what a "TRUE" Christian is about. I have only met few true Christians in my life, and those are people that I would say are living a Christ-like lifestyle "what would Jesus do?"
Jesus did not kill anyone.
On the other hand, he heals and gives life.
He is everything that is true, good, pure, sinless and holy.
Any one killing in the name of God is a fake.
it doesn't matter what flag they are waving when they do it.
Uhm, yes, yes he did. Jesus, God, Holy Spirit - they are all the same, remember? Jesus is God, so when God killed all those people in the Old Testament, it was Jesus doing it too.
Again, you are assuming one needs a God to tell them the difference between right and wrong. That is a false dichotomy. The FACTS show, that there a far higher percent of Christians go to prison than aetheists. The FACTS show that the most peaceful people on earth are non-God believeing people, like Buddhists. The FACTS show that religious people exhibit more hatred, intolerance, racism, and bloodshed than those with no faith.
I don't know where you get your facts, but they are not factual. I addressed the prison arguement in an earlier comment on this video. There have been people who claim to be Christians who hate and kill people, but Christians who follow the teaching and example of Christ do not.
Well, you're wrong again. Christianity is not a faith based religion. By your own doctrine, you are saved by grace alone, not good deeds and not by works. All one needs to do is accept Jesus as their personal Savior to be a Christian. Someone behavior has absolutely nothing to do with it. You can be an armed robber and a Christian at the same time.
I know what you meant to say. We are not saved by works but by grace. However, the book of James makes it clear that anyone who claims to have faith must demonstrate that faith by the things they do. "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. (James 2:18)
James states a view, not a command from Christ. People show their faith is various ways, but to claim that ones deeds, good or bad, is what qualifies them as Christian violates your own doctrine. Your God's view on good deeds is very clear, he doesn't care about your good deeds. So my point stands, a MUCH higher percentage of Christians go to prison than Atheists. So to say the faithful are somehow more moral is a logical fallicy.
I believe that the teachings in the book of James have equal weight with the rest of the Bible New Testament. But if you are talking about commands of Jesus, he said much about the way we should act. "My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." (John 15:12) I addressed the fallacy about more Christians in prison earlier.
So what you're saying is, the fact remains that you cannot provide evidence that Christians are in any way more moral than athiests? You ar ebasing your opinion on religious dogma rather than real world facts? And maybe your view on atheists is wrong?
Consistent Atheists can have no moral code beyond survival of the fittest. As you know the Christian moral code is far above that. I'm sure you can point out someone who claims to be a Christian but does not demonstrate Christian morality. I know many Christians whom I would be glad to point out as examples of consistent Christian living.
Well, if killing babies is your moral code, then I do not agree with it. What? Why do I say that? Because your God commanded the killing of women, children, and babies many times in the Bible. Like 1 Sam 15:3 If you're a Christian, you must agree with the Old Testament as well as the new. Jesus says so.
The Amalekites were a morally corrupt people on whom God pronounced judgment. God commanded Saul's army to carry out the judgment to keep the Amalakites from corrupting God's people and to be a lesson to the people of God about the importance of right living. God has a right to do that, but this is not the standard way his judgment is carried out.
So it's ok to kill babies in the name of God? You REALLY believe that? A baby is not corrupt, a baby makes no decision on it's own, a baby can be adopted by good parents, BABIES ARE INNOCENT! If your moral code allows the slaughter of innocents for any reason, then it's a horrible code that no one should follow and you have some nerve pointing fingers.
Babies are innocent and it is wrong to kill them either before or after they are born. Many people have accepted the idea that it's OK to kill babies before they are born for the sake of convenience. It is not the Christians, but the atheists who are saying it's OK. To a Christian, every human life is sacred because we are created in the image of God. To the atheist we are all accidents of nature. Why shouldn't the strong accidents kill the weaker ones if they get in the way?
Way to dodge the question, well done. So do you disagree with Samuel ordering Saul to kill all the babies in the Amalakite city or not? BTW, not all atheists are pro-choice, just like not all christians are. Making sweeping statements like that is ignorant.
What does atheism have to offer anyone... in life, or after life? I was once at the point where I gave up seeking God and I just had no conclusion on the matter. I'm so glad that God yanked me back on track. I never want to be the person that I noticed myself slowly becoming when I was completely without God.
Buddhists are atheists. Didn't you kow? Their moral code is well defined. Moral codes come from your society and culture. I live in America, and we have laws which define the values and morals of our society. And surprise, surprise, our government is secular, not theocratic. So I guess you're wrong.
OK, moral codes come from society and culture. The moral code of the Buddhist countries comes from the historical foundations of their society. The moral code of the USA comes from the Christian founders of our country. They believed in God and the Bible and based our laws that faith.
Which moral code are you taking about? America has no national moral code, it never did. The Supreme Court has ruled that any form of moral code is based on "community standards" which vary drastically all over the US. For instance, in Nevada prostitution is legal, whereas in Utah most counties don't even allow alchohol.
True atheists do not believe in God or any life beyond what we experience here and now. Buddhists believe in Nirvana, a state of the soul which can only be reached by right thinking and self-denial. Real atheists don't believe in the soul either. Are you a Buddhist?
Some do, some don't. Athiests are not an organized group of people like a religion. There is no uniform belief system for someone who doesn't believe in gods. Do all people who stop believing in Santa Claus suddenly all share identicle beliefs?
So there can be false atheists and not belive in god; however, belive in life beyond. And unreal atheists can believe in a soul. Being an Atheist, believing in a soul (as I define soul), and considering myself "real"; you must be wrong. Buddhism is only one out of the thousands of religions and the hundreds practiced today.
Not subscribing to the belief in gods is rarely something passed on by parents. In the vast majority of cases, people abandon the belief in the supernatural all on their own due to a simple lack of evidence.
It has been my experience that most of the children of believers who abandon the faith when they get older do so not because of a lack of evidence, but because of the temptations which seem more attractive to them. Usually it happens during college or even high school years when they think they are going to live forever and short-term pleasures they can see are far more attractive than a distant God they can't see.
The idea of "temptation" is a religious one. People who abandon the belief in supernatural accountability also abandon the belief in "sin". Atheists do not believe they will live forever, that is a religious idea. Atheists know their life is finite and should be experienced to it's fullest, thus, worrying about an afterlife is wasteful and illogical.
You are making my point. When you abandon faith in God you throw away the idea of sin which also gets rid of guilt. No God, no sin, no guilt, do what feels good. The average teen-ager thinks he will live "forever" -in a figurative sense. That's why they often do crazy dangerous things. The older we get the more we realize how short life is and we take fewer chances.
No, humans are very capable of establishing the difference between right and wrong without relying on the supernaturual. Most democracies are SECULAR and their laws based on secular values, not religious ones. Killing, stealing, and lying are banes of all humanity, not just Christians. So as a society, we punish those who lie, steal, and kill. You should study up on Humanistic Philosphy and expand your world view.
Democracy isn't politics, it's a method of governance, as freedom of speech is a means by which politics may be conducted. You confuse the train with the track.
To suppose that Christianity is a necessity for the future of civilisation is to belittle non-Christian civilisations, one of which had given birth to your cherished democracy over four centuries before Christ even spoke his first infant words (along with huge leaps in Mathematics, the sciences, the arts...)
If you used the term "beliefs...political" just to refer to the Democrat or Republican party then your concept of political ideas is very limited. You must be an American.
Those ancient Greeks did develop early concepts of democracy, but only for a privileged few. They practiced slavery and didn't care for the poor. Christians led in the abolition of slavery in England and the USA and they follow the teaching of Jesus to love the poor and needy.
Before championing Christianity, you might want to check its record on slavery. The Pope didn't formally condemn slavery until 1890. It took another century before Catholicism finally apologise for profiting from the trade. I happen to live in a city built with slave trade money. Its fingerprints are all over the buildings, sharing their space with Protestant symbolism.
Oh, and one final note: to what religion do you suppose the slave traders themselves subscribed?
(And why were Biblical interpretations of Genesis which took the two creation stories (1 and 2.5) as referring to separate creations for non-Abrahamic then Abrahamic peoples popular during the slave trade? Were many Christians seeking to quell their consciences...?)
Most of the slave traders subscribed to no religion. John Newton was one such slave trader whose religion was his own pleasure until he came to know Christ in his life. He became a changed man and the author of the best known Christian hymn of all time, "Amazing Grace". His story is well told in a Focus on the Family Radio Drama called "Waves of Grace".
I think you are a little confused on the "two creation stories." Abraham did not come along until Genesis chapter 12.
I wouldn't teach a child to vote for any political party. I would teach the child principles of Christian morality and a Christian worldview and encourage them to make an informed decision when voting for any candidate based on that candidate's character and position on the issues.
I am not here to defend the numerous mistakes of any pope or any Protestant denomination, but it was practicing Christians who led the struggle to end slavery because biblical Christian faith requires it.
I would rather people taught kids morality, without binding it to religion. Kids can choose whether to be religious or not when old enough to make informed decisions.
It was practicing Christians who began the slave trade, and used the Bible to defend it. If nothing else, this demonstrates to me that doctrine neither makes us more, nor less, moral.
I have been around long enough to see it happen many times. Parents teach their children "morality" without giving them a basis for that morality (faith in God who sets the standards) and the kids set their own standards (morality based what I want). The result is hedonism.
Slavery began long before Christianity. However, you are right that doctrine does not make us more or less moral. A changed life comes through surrender to Jesus Christ, not from a set of doctrines.
The bit about fewer atheists in prison is based on a questionnaire used at incarceration. Most jails don't have atheist or non-believer as an option and if they do it's rarely checked because prisoners know that being an atheist won't get them any help. If they identify as Christian it may gain points with the chaplain or warden. Just another demonstration that atheism does nothing for people with problems. Even prisoners know they will never get help of any kind from the atheist community.
I am saying that most prisoners are smart enough to know that they have a better chance of early parole if they get "religion." They also know that there are no atheist prison ministries. There are many Christian prison ministries and those ministries are more likely to help and encourage someone who is open to the Christian message than someone who claims to be an atheist and not interested in what Christ has to offer.
In answer to your second question, there are a lot of people in the world who claim to be Christians but live as if God does not exist. In other words their supposed faith has not impacted the way they live. You would probably call them "hypocrites" and I would too. In fact, that is what Jesus called the religious fakers of his day.
I suspect you'll find a lot of atheists would agree that god(s) or no god(s) is something each person should decide from themselves, upon reaching an age when they can make an informed choice. Indoctrination of the youthful minds is a bad thing, no matter which direction is comes from. AFAIK the Humanists refuse to 'enroll' children unless the choice is their own, not their parent's.
Parents, whether believers or non-believers cannot avoid imparting their values to their children from infancy. It is part of parenting. Even if parents send their children off to an institution right after birth, that would still be imparting a value to that child. Those children when they are grown choose to accept or reject the values/beliefs of their parents. That is part of growing up with the free will God gave us.
There's a difference, of course, between unavoidably passing on one's own religion or politics to one's children, and forcibly dragging the kids off to church every Sunday. :)
The problem is if parent pro-actively impose their beliefs (religious/political/whatever) onto their children, the children are statistically far more likely to grow up supporting said beliefs.
You say it's wrong for parents to teach their political beliefs to their children. As a US citizen I teach my kids to value democracy as a political system far superior to any other that humans have devised. I do that for their future and future of this country. Also as a Christian I teach my kids that Christian values, taught and lived by Jesus, loving and caring for every person, is the way of life far superior to any other. I do that for their future and the future of civilization.
i watch the full videos with my congregation, there interesting =)
akunnotensai 3 years ago
While I am an atheist and have no plans to change that any time soon... I appreciate the fact that you have brought this argument up. Any victim of brainwash is a victim, even if they're on your side.
yankeebayonet 3 years ago 3
Yes, Atheists exists, go to a well-run country in Europe that looks after its citizens with decent transport and health care, that has low levels of crime and incarceration and that educates them to a high level (Finland is a good example, Sweden or Switzerland too). You'll find an atheist majority there, leading happier lives and not scaring their children with fairy stories.
metalbucket2 3 years ago 15
Well i am atheist so they definatly do exsist
And most of my family belive in god and I was raised to belive that too. But I changed my mind at about 10 years old. to me the bible is just like a stupid childerens book.
People that belive in god are strange to me, and normally just raised that way.
I have a freind that baleives in god but only becasue his parents belive it. They dont let him watch anything or do anything that might make him change his mind.
Its just brainwash in my opionion
bigbob10101 3 years ago 6
This video is great. I'm an athiest, and I've been thinking the same thoughts for quite a while. My parents never tried to influence my religion, which i think is the right thing to do.
yazuak 4 years ago 8
I think he's trying to tell us to think for ourselves & asking if that's what we are doing... I don't see how he's disrespecting anyone. I'm not Christian... But if he is or is not he's a thinker & that's cool!
Aufschimmer 4 years ago 2
Assumptions you present are funny:
1. God exists, and we (as a mere carbon form of matter) can know "him" it
2. Only your god, which you don't doubt exists, is the correct one.
3. You can speak to what "god" wants..
Your justification for all of these: Faith
No thank you.
Explitiv3 4 years ago 4
Many people blame science for making people atheists. The fact is all athesists come to it for different reasons. I had my honours degree in science but was still a person of faith. But I lost my faith when I began to critically exam the teachings of the bible and came to my own conclusion. That I could live a far more morale life without it's teachings and no such being could possibly exist and claim to be the perfect example of love.
sfehrenbach 4 years ago 5
The amazing thing is that two different people can look at the same evidence and come to diametrically opposite conclusions. I am glad that you are able to live a far more "morale" life. I am sorry that you are unable to know the God who is the perfect example of love.
PowerVine 4 years ago
Smiting, drowning, sending plagues and burning people is NOT love.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago 3
Genocide, baby killing, and endorsed rape are not examples of perfect love. You cannot justify those actions, you can only rationalize them.
UltraSWG 4 years ago 2
I found two forms of evidence: the logical and the factual. The logical evidence made me say, on many occasions, "hey, this doesn't make sense, it's not logical, so it might not be true after all"; bascially anything backed up by logic and reason. The factual evidence is everything I found which was backed up by history, science, etc. I admit, I might be wrong and God may exist, but the conclusion I've come to is that He doesn't.
tekbarrier 4 years ago
No 8-year old can truly be an Atheist, Christian, Muslim, etc. No one that young has investigated things for themselves, they only have their parents teachings to go on, so if their parents are atheists, they will be taught that there is no God. If their parents are Christian, they will be taught there is a God, and so forth. I am an atheist and I am perfectly happy the way I am. I was raised a Christian, but I left it behind years ago because I followed the evidence.
tekbarrier 4 years ago
A 38-year-old can also be an atheist or a believer because his parents were. The point John is making is that our faith should be our own, not our parents'. We should investigate and know why we believe what we believe. This is also the point of another video "Why are You a Christian, Buddhist, Hindu, Moslem, Atheist?" John investigated the evidence and came to faith in God and Jesus Christ. What evidence did you find?
PowerVine 4 years ago
It's pathetic to see how atheists use only the perspective of the christian or simalair religions to point out there is no 'creator'. But actualy they are saying that there is no christion god or simalair gods. and i totaly agree with that. The question must be this: Is there a possible 'creater' or 'something' that creates?
And on that point the athiest totaly fails to come with arguments that are convinsing.
jamminjimi 4 years ago
But if there is a creator, where are his instructions, if not in the Holy Bible?
ollonelycat 4 years ago
Maybe they are in the Torah? The Book of Mormon? The Quran? The Vedas? The Pearl of Great Price? The Doctrine and Covenants? Why do you think God spoke to man in only one book? Have you read the other books and then prayed about them?
UltraSWG 4 years ago
I have never read the Torah, or the Quran.
The book of morman has already been proven to be a fake. If that isn't obvious enough, then there is no reason to continue on with this.
There is a difference between truth and lie.
When you can determine the difference, you will be ready to argue.
ollonelycat 4 years ago
Atheists just don't believe in gods, that's all. All an atheist needs to start believing in a god is to show them evidence of one.
Personally, I don't believe in Unicorns, Satyrs, Cockatrices, talking snakes, and Dragons - even though the Bible says those animals are real. But show me evidence, and I'll believe.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
The evidence you look for comes in a form that you are not open to accept.
Why don't you question the wind, or time?
Your chances of seeing a talking snake are slim... unless its a salesman.
ollonelycat 4 years ago
First off, you don't know anything about me or my beliefs, so don't go there. But you just said you're not a Christian, yet you believe in Jesus and accept the Bible as 100% truth. Ok, so then what are you?
UltraSWG 4 years ago
A believer
ollonelycat 4 years ago
So what is this "evidence" that an atheist is not open to accept?
Why would anyone question wind or time? That is absurd. In the case of wind, it is confirmed by observation, evidence, SCIENCE. Your god is not.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago
You are wrong.
ollonelycat 4 years ago
You must be using the King James Version. In KJV the Hebrew word for wild ox is mistranslated as unicorn. It's obvious this isn't correct in Deut. 33:17 where it says, 'his horns are like the horns of a unicorn' since unicorns have only one horn. KJV mistranslates the word for wild goat as satyr and viper as cockatrice. Also dragon refers to a snake or lizard but mostly it refers to the devil as does the talking snake in Genesis. But Romans 1:18-32 tells us that evidence of God is all around us.
PowerVine 4 years ago
But see, you're showing that the Bible is not the imperfect word of God, but merely a manmade book. The imperfect word of God would not be able to be corrupted or mistranslated, otherwise, it is not perfect! The Bible we have today is just a compilation of stories voted on by bishops at the Council of Nicea in order to control the populace under one unified religion.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
I think you meant to say "not the PERFECT word of God." No what I am saying is that human language is imperfect and changing. English words have changed since King James' day, but ancient Hebrew and Greek don't change because they're dead languages. For most of us who can't read the original languages, there are many excellent translations today. The Council of Nicea had nothing to do with deciding what books should be in the Bible. That false information came from "The Da Vinci Code" fiction.
PowerVine 4 years ago
Lol, if you notice today's more "modern" translations, ALL the mythical creatures in the KJV have been replaced by more "acceptable" creatures. The Christians are embarrassed by their nonsense and try to clean it up.
Jeremyguru 4 years ago 3
one nation under law. not 'god' as many retards thinks
studiomarcel 4 years ago
The second paragraph of the Declaration of Independence begins, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are CREATED equal, that they are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable Rights..." Remove the Creator and you remove the very basis for the founding of our country and the rights we have. I suggest you read the book "The United States: A Christian Nation" by former US Supreme Court Justice David J. Brewer. It's available at PVPowerStore dot com and other places.
PowerVine 4 years ago
The "Creator" is never defined! The "creator" could be the planet earth or simply nature. You use the term "creator" to fit your dogma, however, Thomas Jefferson was not a Christian at all. No where does it say that we were created by God, however, most scientists would agree we were ultimately created by nature.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
In the first paragraph of the Declaration of Independence, Jefferson wrote, "the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature's God entitle them..." He made a distinction between nature and God. Jefferson was a closet theologian and a believer in God. He read daily from the New Testament and believed religion to be vital to society. The Continental Congress carefully considered every word he wrote before they signed the Declaration. They believed our rights came from God.
PowerVine 4 years ago
Hawkins and Einstein spoke of "God" as well and we know darn well they are not theists. "God" does not mean the Judeo Christian God anymore than it mean Allah or Vishnu. None of our rights are even supported by your Bible, especially the very 1st one. The US is not and was never a Theocracy.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
You say 'Hawkins' but I think you mean Richard Dawkins (perhaps confusing the name with Stephen Hawking). Yes, Dawkins is a fanatical atheist. However, Einstein said when asked if he believed in God, 'I'm not an atheist.' He went on to give a an illustration of how we are like little children in a huge library of books knowing that someone wrote those books, but not knowing how or understanding the languages in which they are written. Read the quote on page 386 of 'Einstein' by Walter Isaacson.
PowerVine 4 years ago
This world was created through the works of a perfect creator. To suggest that he has no will for his children and/or no way to make it known to them is an insult to his brilliance.
ollonelycat 4 years ago
#1 Look, I'm going to make this REAL easy for you. In college, anyone can take an American History class and read the "Three Fundamental Moral Themes" that the founding fathers based the foundations of the America upon. Oddly, none of them coincide with Biblical moral themes.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
#2 The first theme is obvious:
"Democracy is the best alternative for civil government, and often for their own organization."
This is obviously not supported at all by the Bible. The Jews were ruled by Kings, not presidents or senators.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
#3 The second theme is obvious as well, it's number one on the Bill of Rights:
"Everyone should be guaranteed freedom of speech, assembly, and religion."
Do you really need an explaination for this? Do you really think Jesus went around preaching Freedom of Religion? The 10 commandments are also pretty clear on which God you should be worshipping. And the Jews weren't too keen on freedom of speech, just ask Jesus.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
#4 And the last may be surprising, but this was all too common in the times of our founding fathers:
"People should be punished only for their own criminal acts, not the acts of others."
This is common sense now, but back in those days, sons were often held accountable for the crimes of the fathers, especially in cases of treason. And of course, the Bible does not support this value, for all too often God condemns the innocent right along with the guilt.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
#5 So really, where are all these morals you claim to get exclusively from the Bible upon which this country was built upon? I know, you're probably just reciting what you hear from your pastor, but the truth is, you should be thanking our Deist Founding Fathers for not basing our nation on Biblical teachings.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
Hi; Your faith support slavery and the 10 commendements also,If I was a christian I would be a shame of myself. Thank you
quebec10000 4 years ago
You don't understand what a "TRUE" Christian is about. I have only met few true Christians in my life, and those are people that I would say are living a Christ-like lifestyle "what would Jesus do?"
Jesus did not kill anyone.
On the other hand, he heals and gives life.
He is everything that is true, good, pure, sinless and holy.
Any one killing in the name of God is a fake.
it doesn't matter what flag they are waving when they do it.
ollonelycat 4 years ago
"Jesus did not kill anyone"
Uhm, yes, yes he did. Jesus, God, Holy Spirit - they are all the same, remember? Jesus is God, so when God killed all those people in the Old Testament, it was Jesus doing it too.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
There is really no point for me to argue.
Sounds like you know God better than he knows himself.
ollonelycat 4 years ago
Again, you are assuming one needs a God to tell them the difference between right and wrong. That is a false dichotomy. The FACTS show, that there a far higher percent of Christians go to prison than aetheists. The FACTS show that the most peaceful people on earth are non-God believeing people, like Buddhists. The FACTS show that religious people exhibit more hatred, intolerance, racism, and bloodshed than those with no faith.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
I don't know where you get your facts, but they are not factual. I addressed the prison arguement in an earlier comment on this video. There have been people who claim to be Christians who hate and kill people, but Christians who follow the teaching and example of Christ do not.
PowerVine 4 years ago
Well, you're wrong again. Christianity is not a faith based religion. By your own doctrine, you are saved by grace alone, not good deeds and not by works. All one needs to do is accept Jesus as their personal Savior to be a Christian. Someone behavior has absolutely nothing to do with it. You can be an armed robber and a Christian at the same time.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
**edit** I meant to say "works" based religion, not faith based.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
I know what you meant to say. We are not saved by works but by grace. However, the book of James makes it clear that anyone who claims to have faith must demonstrate that faith by the things they do. "Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. (James 2:18)
PowerVine 4 years ago
James states a view, not a command from Christ. People show their faith is various ways, but to claim that ones deeds, good or bad, is what qualifies them as Christian violates your own doctrine. Your God's view on good deeds is very clear, he doesn't care about your good deeds. So my point stands, a MUCH higher percentage of Christians go to prison than Atheists. So to say the faithful are somehow more moral is a logical fallicy.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
I believe that the teachings in the book of James have equal weight with the rest of the Bible New Testament. But if you are talking about commands of Jesus, he said much about the way we should act. "My command is this: Love each other as I have loved you." (John 15:12) I addressed the fallacy about more Christians in prison earlier.
PowerVine 4 years ago
So what you're saying is, the fact remains that you cannot provide evidence that Christians are in any way more moral than athiests? You ar ebasing your opinion on religious dogma rather than real world facts? And maybe your view on atheists is wrong?
UltraSWG 4 years ago
Consistent Atheists can have no moral code beyond survival of the fittest. As you know the Christian moral code is far above that. I'm sure you can point out someone who claims to be a Christian but does not demonstrate Christian morality. I know many Christians whom I would be glad to point out as examples of consistent Christian living.
PowerVine 4 years ago
Well, if killing babies is your moral code, then I do not agree with it. What? Why do I say that? Because your God commanded the killing of women, children, and babies many times in the Bible. Like 1 Sam 15:3 If you're a Christian, you must agree with the Old Testament as well as the new. Jesus says so.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
The Amalekites were a morally corrupt people on whom God pronounced judgment. God commanded Saul's army to carry out the judgment to keep the Amalakites from corrupting God's people and to be a lesson to the people of God about the importance of right living. God has a right to do that, but this is not the standard way his judgment is carried out.
PowerVine 4 years ago
So it's ok to kill babies in the name of God? You REALLY believe that? A baby is not corrupt, a baby makes no decision on it's own, a baby can be adopted by good parents, BABIES ARE INNOCENT! If your moral code allows the slaughter of innocents for any reason, then it's a horrible code that no one should follow and you have some nerve pointing fingers.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
Babies are innocent and it is wrong to kill them either before or after they are born. Many people have accepted the idea that it's OK to kill babies before they are born for the sake of convenience. It is not the Christians, but the atheists who are saying it's OK. To a Christian, every human life is sacred because we are created in the image of God. To the atheist we are all accidents of nature. Why shouldn't the strong accidents kill the weaker ones if they get in the way?
PowerVine 4 years ago
Way to dodge the question, well done. So do you disagree with Samuel ordering Saul to kill all the babies in the Amalakite city or not? BTW, not all atheists are pro-choice, just like not all christians are. Making sweeping statements like that is ignorant.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
What does atheism have to offer anyone... in life, or after life? I was once at the point where I gave up seeking God and I just had no conclusion on the matter. I'm so glad that God yanked me back on track. I never want to be the person that I noticed myself slowly becoming when I was completely without God.
ollonelycat 4 years ago
If you're a Christian because of "what it has to offer" then I think your motivation needs to be examined.
Your "testimony" really doesn't matter. Someone could say the exact same thing as you, but replace "God" with "Allah" or "Vishnu".
UltraSWG 4 years ago
I am not a Christian.
And what you mentioned is not my purpose for believing in Jesus.
But no matter where my testimony comes from, you will reject it.
ollonelycat 4 years ago
Buddhists are atheists. Didn't you kow? Their moral code is well defined. Moral codes come from your society and culture. I live in America, and we have laws which define the values and morals of our society. And surprise, surprise, our government is secular, not theocratic. So I guess you're wrong.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
OK, moral codes come from society and culture. The moral code of the Buddhist countries comes from the historical foundations of their society. The moral code of the USA comes from the Christian founders of our country. They believed in God and the Bible and based our laws that faith.
PowerVine 4 years ago
Which moral code are you taking about? America has no national moral code, it never did. The Supreme Court has ruled that any form of moral code is based on "community standards" which vary drastically all over the US. For instance, in Nevada prostitution is legal, whereas in Utah most counties don't even allow alchohol.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
True atheists do not believe in God or any life beyond what we experience here and now. Buddhists believe in Nirvana, a state of the soul which can only be reached by right thinking and self-denial. Real atheists don't believe in the soul either. Are you a Buddhist?
PowerVine 4 years ago
I don't know where you get this "real atheist" stuff, but I think you need to look up the definition of the word atheist. Here, I'll do it for you
"One who disbelieves or denies the existence of God or gods"
Nothing about soul, or afterlife. Theism is strictly about gods. Buddhism has no gods.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
Are you saying that athests believe in a soul and an afterlife? Do you?
PowerVine 4 years ago
Some do, some don't. Athiests are not an organized group of people like a religion. There is no uniform belief system for someone who doesn't believe in gods. Do all people who stop believing in Santa Claus suddenly all share identicle beliefs?
UltraSWG 4 years ago
So there can be false atheists and not belive in god; however, belive in life beyond. And unreal atheists can believe in a soul. Being an Atheist, believing in a soul (as I define soul), and considering myself "real"; you must be wrong. Buddhism is only one out of the thousands of religions and the hundreds practiced today.
Explitiv3 4 years ago
Not subscribing to the belief in gods is rarely something passed on by parents. In the vast majority of cases, people abandon the belief in the supernatural all on their own due to a simple lack of evidence.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
It has been my experience that most of the children of believers who abandon the faith when they get older do so not because of a lack of evidence, but because of the temptations which seem more attractive to them. Usually it happens during college or even high school years when they think they are going to live forever and short-term pleasures they can see are far more attractive than a distant God they can't see.
PowerVine 4 years ago
The idea of "temptation" is a religious one. People who abandon the belief in supernatural accountability also abandon the belief in "sin". Atheists do not believe they will live forever, that is a religious idea. Atheists know their life is finite and should be experienced to it's fullest, thus, worrying about an afterlife is wasteful and illogical.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
You are making my point. When you abandon faith in God you throw away the idea of sin which also gets rid of guilt. No God, no sin, no guilt, do what feels good. The average teen-ager thinks he will live "forever" -in a figurative sense. That's why they often do crazy dangerous things. The older we get the more we realize how short life is and we take fewer chances.
PowerVine 4 years ago
No, humans are very capable of establishing the difference between right and wrong without relying on the supernaturual. Most democracies are SECULAR and their laws based on secular values, not religious ones. Killing, stealing, and lying are banes of all humanity, not just Christians. So as a society, we punish those who lie, steal, and kill. You should study up on Humanistic Philosphy and expand your world view.
UltraSWG 4 years ago
Democracy isn't politics, it's a method of governance, as freedom of speech is a means by which politics may be conducted. You confuse the train with the track.
To suppose that Christianity is a necessity for the future of civilisation is to belittle non-Christian civilisations, one of which had given birth to your cherished democracy over four centuries before Christ even spoke his first infant words (along with huge leaps in Mathematics, the sciences, the arts...)
sadetec 4 years ago
If you used the term "beliefs...political" just to refer to the Democrat or Republican party then your concept of political ideas is very limited. You must be an American.
Those ancient Greeks did develop early concepts of democracy, but only for a privileged few. They practiced slavery and didn't care for the poor. Christians led in the abolition of slavery in England and the USA and they follow the teaching of Jesus to love the poor and needy.
PowerVine 4 years ago
So it's okay to teach a child to vote Democrat?
Before championing Christianity, you might want to check its record on slavery. The Pope didn't formally condemn slavery until 1890. It took another century before Catholicism finally apologise for profiting from the trade. I happen to live in a city built with slave trade money. Its fingerprints are all over the buildings, sharing their space with Protestant symbolism.
sadetec 4 years ago
Oh, and one final note: to what religion do you suppose the slave traders themselves subscribed?
(And why were Biblical interpretations of Genesis which took the two creation stories (1 and 2.5) as referring to separate creations for non-Abrahamic then Abrahamic peoples popular during the slave trade? Were many Christians seeking to quell their consciences...?)
sadetec 4 years ago
Most of the slave traders subscribed to no religion. John Newton was one such slave trader whose religion was his own pleasure until he came to know Christ in his life. He became a changed man and the author of the best known Christian hymn of all time, "Amazing Grace". His story is well told in a Focus on the Family Radio Drama called "Waves of Grace".
I think you are a little confused on the "two creation stories." Abraham did not come along until Genesis chapter 12.
PowerVine 4 years ago
I wouldn't teach a child to vote for any political party. I would teach the child principles of Christian morality and a Christian worldview and encourage them to make an informed decision when voting for any candidate based on that candidate's character and position on the issues.
I am not here to defend the numerous mistakes of any pope or any Protestant denomination, but it was practicing Christians who led the struggle to end slavery because biblical Christian faith requires it.
PowerVine 4 years ago
I would rather people taught kids morality, without binding it to religion. Kids can choose whether to be religious or not when old enough to make informed decisions.
It was practicing Christians who began the slave trade, and used the Bible to defend it. If nothing else, this demonstrates to me that doctrine neither makes us more, nor less, moral.
sadetec 4 years ago
I have been around long enough to see it happen many times. Parents teach their children "morality" without giving them a basis for that morality (faith in God who sets the standards) and the kids set their own standards (morality based what I want). The result is hedonism.
Slavery began long before Christianity. However, you are right that doctrine does not make us more or less moral. A changed life comes through surrender to Jesus Christ, not from a set of doctrines.
PowerVine 4 years ago
Is this the bit were I note almost every Western country has fewer non-beleivers in prison than per share of population (20x fewer in the USA)...
...then you counter with "Stalin was an atheist"...
...I counter that countries with more non-believers have higher standards or living and lower crime, divorce (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Japan...)
..."but!!!... Stalin was an atheist!!!"...
...and we all agree that religion matters not when it comes to social morality.
...? :)
sadetec 4 years ago
The bit about fewer atheists in prison is based on a questionnaire used at incarceration. Most jails don't have atheist or non-believer as an option and if they do it's rarely checked because prisoners know that being an atheist won't get them any help. If they identify as Christian it may gain points with the chaplain or warden. Just another demonstration that atheism does nothing for people with problems. Even prisoners know they will never get help of any kind from the atheist community.
PowerVine 4 years ago
Are you suggesting that prisoners are discriminated against if they do not pretend to be Christian?
I wonder if this is true of the outside world too. Do you think a lot of Christians are really closet Atheists?
sadetec 4 years ago
I am saying that most prisoners are smart enough to know that they have a better chance of early parole if they get "religion." They also know that there are no atheist prison ministries. There are many Christian prison ministries and those ministries are more likely to help and encourage someone who is open to the Christian message than someone who claims to be an atheist and not interested in what Christ has to offer.
PowerVine 4 years ago
In answer to your second question, there are a lot of people in the world who claim to be Christians but live as if God does not exist. In other words their supposed faith has not impacted the way they live. You would probably call them "hypocrites" and I would too. In fact, that is what Jesus called the religious fakers of his day.
PowerVine 4 years ago
I suspect you'll find a lot of atheists would agree that god(s) or no god(s) is something each person should decide from themselves, upon reaching an age when they can make an informed choice. Indoctrination of the youthful minds is a bad thing, no matter which direction is comes from. AFAIK the Humanists refuse to 'enroll' children unless the choice is their own, not their parent's.
sadetec 4 years ago
Parents, whether believers or non-believers cannot avoid imparting their values to their children from infancy. It is part of parenting. Even if parents send their children off to an institution right after birth, that would still be imparting a value to that child. Those children when they are grown choose to accept or reject the values/beliefs of their parents. That is part of growing up with the free will God gave us.
PowerVine 4 years ago
There's a difference, of course, between unavoidably passing on one's own religion or politics to one's children, and forcibly dragging the kids off to church every Sunday. :)
The problem is if parent pro-actively impose their beliefs (religious/political/whatever) onto their children, the children are statistically far more likely to grow up supporting said beliefs.
Religion shouldn't be an 'opt out' proposition.
sadetec 4 years ago
You say it's wrong for parents to teach their political beliefs to their children. As a US citizen I teach my kids to value democracy as a political system far superior to any other that humans have devised. I do that for their future and future of this country. Also as a Christian I teach my kids that Christian values, taught and lived by Jesus, loving and caring for every person, is the way of life far superior to any other. I do that for their future and the future of civilization.
PowerVine 4 years ago