I'm surprised you didn't say much about how these sort of characters give a message to girls that they are "supposed" to "save" men. I wasn't affected by this idea as well as others, but I do know that many women do believe they can "change" a guy because of these characters. Anyway, I subscribed to you, so I can't wait to see more of your videos. BTW I love what you said at the end, because I actually want to be a director myself and do have my own issues. I hope I'll be wonderful role model.:)
I would hesitate to include Clementine Kruczynski on your list of MPDG. She warns Joel not to place her on that pedestal because she too is a human with her own issues. Their relationship unravels due to his expectations of her and their character flaws; she's massively insecure and he doesn't communicate his thoughts and feelings. Clementine comes off more as meta of the trope rather than an example.
Natalie Portman's character in Garden State can stay though. Poster girl of MPDG indeed.
I Dream of Jeannie is pretty much a celebration of several tropes at once, and the guy keeps her in a bottle so that she barely takes up any space. Barf.
And what I mean by that is I hear dumb guys saying "omg ur so amazin u saved me, I was nothing before you blaaaahhblaaahhhblaaahhhhh" and I mostly hear this from the so-called "niceguys" who say things like "I'm a feminist" just to get into girl's pants.
These series have opened my mind to a whole new level regarding my little pony. I'm thinking about the characters such as pinkie pie. She is portrayed in a similar way to this, but sometimes she is displayed with more depth.
This video also made me think about how guys often think of me. I've often been labeled as this pixie, possibly because of my personality. Can't I be cheerful and not have to care about their issues all the time?
To anyone sick of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl- I strongly recommend the book Paper Towns by John Green. A brilliant book with realistic male AND female characters, and one of the central themes is constructing and then deconstructing the MPDG.
In case more persuasion was needed...
“The fundamental mistake I had always made - and that she had, in fairness, always led me to make - was this: Margo was not a miracle. She was not an adventure. She was not a fine and precious thing. She was a girl.”
what about Melody(!!!), from Woody Allen's Whatever works :/ she's a queen of MPDG... she's stupid, ex small town beauty queen, no job (walks dogs), has sex behind a tent on a coutry fair...
(part 2) but otherwise, I love this video because you express all the reasons I hate this trope in its entirety. I don't mind eccentric female characters or guys interested in her for her eccentricities, but so often she's more of a concept than a person. I have faced this quite often in the past, being an openly whimsical and energetic person, and it's frustrating. I know that the guy who is pursuing me doesn't see me, he sees a concept. It, unfortunately, is Truth in Television. And I hate it.
I thought Summer Finn from 500 Days of Summer was more of a deconstruction of the MPDG trope. Tom thought of her as such, which is essentially why she broke up with him. At no point did he listen to her about what SHE wanted, he just thought, "this is the MPDG I have been looking for and we should be together and happy forever" so when he didn't get what he wanted, he got upset. And when she tried to tell him otherwise, he didn't listen. It's about him getting over that ideology.
I dunno, even the examples given here usually have a job, interests, and at least the semblance of their own life. Very few MPDG's actually are as shallow and empty as it was made out at the beginning of this vid. MPDG's actually tend to be some of my favorite characters, and I'm not ashamed to say so.
There is another, though less common, trope that I've noticed. For example, in 'The Ugly Truth' (starring Gerard Butler and Katherine Heigl), a man helps a woman 'loosen up' - in this instance, Butler helped Heigl basically conform to gender stereotypes, by instructing her to wear hair extensions, lingerie, and sexier clothes. This seems a bit like the MPDG, but with a man needing to 'fix' a woman.
I would love to hear anyone else's thoughts on this trend, as I'm still trying to figure it out.
Great video! Funny, informative, and easy to understand, especially to those who are unfamiliar with tropes. However, while I agree that most of the examples are indeed MPDGs, I'd argue against including Clementine from "ESOTSM". In fact, I think she described the ridiculousness of the trope better than anyone. "Too many guys think I'm a concept, or I complete them, or I'm gonna make them alive. But I'm just a fucked-up girl who's lookin' for my own peace of mind; don't assign me yours."
Would Yes Man fall into this trope? The crazy, free girl finds her way into the monotonous life of a down and out guy stuck in a dead-end job. Then his life gets better. Though she does have interests of her own, as characterized of her craziness, and though she does have a specific personality, I couldn't help but think of this book/movie as an example of this trope. And the fact that Zooey Deschanel is in it. Love her, but she seems to be a reoccurring factor.
I usually like MPDGs, although their position in the movie annoys me. I really loved Amelie, because it was about the MPDG as a main character, quirkily helping others while trying to get over her own personal issues.
I'm a feminist and I love your trope series, however, I love this trope and almost every movie you've shown in this vlog is a favorite of mine! I simply refuse to feel guilty for enjoying this trope!
What I don't like about this trope is how annoying the manic pixie girl is. Annoying and intrusive. Every time I just want her to mind her own business.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with being inspired by someone else.
Would a Manic Pixie Dream Girl be okay if it was a girl who meets another girl who's like the manic pixie, and they become best friends? Or can a role-reversal of this trope work?
I'm just curious because I'm a girl but I sometimes feel like THE manic pixie @_@ My friends are usually more depressed than I am and I can't help but care about them and stuff, so I'm always helping out whenever they have a problem...
What if a story is about the "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" and the "lost guy" enters HER life? (but she has her own problems, goals/aspirations, storylines, and grows & changes trough the story)
I like the videos on tropes, but I don't believe that 500 Days of Summer is an example, he is doing okay before she comes along, and actually does worse when she is gone. He loves her, yes, but she doesn't 'change his life' or 'inspire him'. The thing that motivates him to pursue his dreams, is not her, but in fact, her leaving him. In my opinion, it is just a love story.
Isnt it dangerous to give the idea of women are the fixers of men, to please them and make them happy so its a woman's job and ultimate failure if she doesnt deliver. It kind of reminds me of the trope that woman have to change a man and bring out a prince in him, even if he is violent, abusive, unlikable and unlovable its still a woman's job to change him or find his goodness. Like in the Beauty and the Beast film (by disney) its not a good idea at all even if disney thinks it is.
@Sortsitar It's interesting to note that the whole Harry Potter concept is a pretty close rip off to the Worst Witch books from the 70's, which do have a female protagonist.
I never paid attention to this before, Nor how it shapes the minds of viewers. One of my favorite comic book artists is a woman, Amanda Connor, I love her work. I never bothered to find out the person's name but assumed that it was a guy.
The constant bombardment of this trope, traps women into a strange form of objectification. She can't be an artist. If she's a woman, she'd better be gorgeous and she'd better be a tool that I use to inspire me to create. lol. she can't be her own person. lol.
I think that woman in transformer 3 is a manic pixie dream girl. I'M SURE OF IT. The main character live in her apartment without paying or having a job...and she tolerate the fact he's jealous against her boss.
I think it really boils down to book sales. I think males have this stigma and belief that a female protagonist means a story that's strictly for girls. Girls frequently read stories about both male and female protagonists but males seldom read many stories where females are the main character.
@vampiricange I think it also has to do with advertising. When I was in junior high and elementary school, shows such as Power Puff Girls, Wild Thornberries, Pepper Ann and Carmen San Diego were watch by kids of both genders. Power Puff Girls was also extremely popular.
My Little Pony Friendship is Magic would like a word with you! XD
But yes, the stigma still exist and it is going to take some considerable effort to get rid of it. I find it a bit funny that when you look at it, it seems that women are more accepting towards a character regardless of who they are. The stigma paints men as people who will NOT accept a character unless he looks, thinks, and acts like him which is NOT a good label to put on a person.
I love this. Manic Pixie Dream Girls plague manga, it's disgusting and I have to sort through so many before I can find any that have legitimate female protagonists.
An older MPDG was Sarah Jessica Parker's character in LA Story, I think. And is it possible for the MPDG to become the main character in a movie? If so, perhaps the result would be Happy Go Lucky.
lol! i was watching the animated classic porco rosso from the genius hayao miyazaki (one of the very few deserving of the adjective) and, well... lets say i remembered this video!
You make this sound like a very recent trope, but it's been around a long time...so it could also be criticized as unoriginal. The French New Wave did it, and virtually every character played by Liza Minelli fits this archetype (esp. The Sterile Cuckoo). She even had a "pixie" haircut.
Or, did you purposefully leave out performances that were well-acted?
I think this series is very good. But I don't think the implication is that all women are like that, or even that a movie/book shows a full picture of each character. A story needs a narrative perspective, and if it is written from the man's point of view then all that is told in the story will link back to the man himself. I think we just need more stories lead by females to balance things out.
(...cont'd) ...and most importantly we see her have significant relationships with other characters, including other women (Hermione and Ginny).
Anyway, that was the first example that came to mind. The point I'm trying to make is that the MPDG is not an inherently bad or offensive trope, is only becomes offensive when the character is poorly written.
@daleksr I don't think Luna is an MPDG at all, while she may have some similar characteristics her existence isn't to bring joy and meaning to Harry's life.
@feministfrequency I don't think Luna is a MPDG either. I do agree with daleksr's original point: a character with MPDG qualities isn't a stereotype IF the character herself has more depth. In fact, both (500) Days of Summer seems to show that the perfect MPDG stereotype is in fact a myth, which is one reason why the relationship fails. Kate Winslet's character in Eternal Sunshine actually warns him not to make her into his saving grace because she's just a real, screwed up human being like him.
@feministfrequency I completely agree. She's just there to represent creativity and yes, while her eccentricities become a comfort for Harry (because she's one of the few who doesn't treat Harry like he's special and she's highly perceptive so she realizes when Harry needs a hand when he's not saying so himself), he is not madly in love with her, nor is she his inspiration moreso than any of his other friends. She's there to provide assistance to Harry in saving the world, not to be his muse.
(...cont'd) Luna exhibits most of the traits of an MPDG. She has a childlike innocence combined with wiseness beyond her years, she is noted as being outside the mainsteam, she plays a nurturing/confidante role to the white, straight, male main character, opening his eyes to new ways of thinking (though she is not a love interest). However, she is also well-developed outside of this role. We learn a lot about her family and home, her interest in nature and conspiracy theories (con't...)
Good video with some interesting points. But I would contest the notion that the MPDG is an inherently bad trope. It is an offensive trope when, as you say, the girl exists entirely in relation to the man and doesn't have any interests or life outside of him. However, if she plays the MPDG role but also is well-developed outside of that, then I would say that she is a perfectly well-written character.
One example that comes to mind is Luna Lovegood from the Harry Potter series. (cont'd..)
omg, i just watched this video the other day, and this is TOTALLY what is happening in Thor. Natalie Portman has absolutely no purpose in the movie except to help Thor grow while he is in exile. GAHHH hollywood wtf.
The entire point of Eternal Sunshine is that Clementine is emphatically NOT a manic pixie dream girl. "I'm not a concept. Too many guys think I'm a concept or I complete them or I'm going to make them alive, but I'm just a fucked up girl who's looking for my own peace of mind. Don't assign me yours." Most of the movie is Joel's memory of her reminding him that his idealized vision of her & their relationship is not reality. 500 Days of Summer attempts a similar thing.
@kismetprismatism yeah i think you have a point actually - especially with clementine. with 500 days of summer it's more open to interpretation, though. my male friend's reaction to summer as a character was "that BITCH!", as if she had to be grateful to the heavens that a nice guy was interested in her. there is also the fact that summer only becomes 'human' rather than idealised vs. selfish bitch when... she falls in love with another man. it is this relationship that humanises her.
While the MPDG is one of my least favorite fiction tropes and this video is very well done, I'm fairly certain that Summer and Clementine are both deconstructions of the MPDG. Both make a point of mentioning that their guy's reliance on them for happiness is one of the major failings of their relationships as they're really just fucked up girls, themselves.
Hi feministfrequency. I know taste is a relative thing but I was wondering if you could recommend any film you thought was good, and also had the female characters as 'complete human beings with their own troubles, interests and creative endeavors'?
My Sassy Girl doesn't really fit this. She's horribly damaged (particularly in the Korean original), with her own family and issues. Also, he's perfectly happy in the beginning, and she actually makes his life hell.
Otherwise, though, this is a spot-on video, and I'm glad to see this trope taken apart.
Also what is with this perpetual comeuppance these manic pixie girls get. Most of them end up getting killed off in the end because they were secretly dying the entire movie and now they must die from cancer after teaching the male protagonist how to love life. Sweet November, Here on Earth, and A walk to remember are perfect examples. It pisses me off.
@minnaow I was about to ask the same thing. Although I understand that it would be a nice change to see a woman painter/writer/artist (which already exists in films like the hours or Frida), I really don't see what's so negative about us being a source of inspiration for artists and creators of all sorts. On the contrary, I find it flattering.
@minnaow It's not wrong! It's wrong when a woman is portrated as existing ONLY for the inspiration of men. Human beings can and should find inspiration from others, we all have things to learn from each other. The problem is that the MPDG reduces the female lead down to a single simplistic message ("Have fun!"), denying her any feelings of her own. This might not even be "wrong" in isolation in a single movie, but across many movies, books, and TV shows, it becomes a stereotype.
Oh, I almost forgot: We should also consider how these characters are constantly presented as unstable in some way, either physically, but in most cases, mentally. There seems to always be something peculiarly wrong with them, making them strange, sometimes inactive, contributors to society, whatever their vehicle of production & meaning may be. There is also this assumption that in order for a woman to be desirable, she must not be the intellectual equivalent or superior of the male lead.
@toyinoluwa Alternatively: a man who is a "fallen hero" (to use the verbiage in the video); who demonstrates that he is vulnerable, shy, flawed; is an undesirable man, he is failing to live up to an image of ideal men as bold and courageous; therefore only a mentally ill woman would find him attractive.
Although you make very good points, I don't think those parts are written for men. I haven't seen any of the movies you listed. I don't think the previews are even marketed to men. Men see them because their wives and girlfriends want to see them. I mean, not even one explosion. :=) jk. Just a though. By the way your videos are well made and entertaining, I enjoy watching them.
Thoughtful stuff...Penny Lane in Almost Famous is based on a real person. And she does leave "the scene" at the end of the movie. I don't think it was an dishonest depiction of that time or milieu. I don't watch the movie and say "women should be like that". I watch it and say "here's a depiction of one woman" and in this case, I don't think it's fair to reduce her to a MPDG. Some of the other films you mention were average or worse partly because the females were uninteresting MPDGs.
I have nothing against Romance books just the crap cliche ones, where you get whisped away by men in shiny armour because thats not real romance, its a real romance book then and follows the principles both male and female characters will be appreciated as the hero/heroines of the story as full individuals...
I agree with all except Clementine in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. In fact, I think Charlie Kaufman makes a point of not portraying Clem as a character whose purpose is to "save" Joel from his doom and gloom. She says "Too many guys think I'm a concept or I complete them or I'm going to make them alive, but I'm just a fucked up girl who is looking for my own peace of mind." She's an independent, strong character, and doesn't just exist to show Joel the childlike beauty of the world.
I disagree about 500 Days of Summer. Summer isn't really a MPDG; Tom is immature and sees her that way, which is why they don't work out. The movie is about how he fell in love with the idea of Summer (a MPDG idea), not the girl Summer. Eventually he grows up and realizes this, and they both go on to be with other people. IMHO this movie does not celebrate the MPDG, but rather demonstrates why Tom needed to mature beyond that idea.
I was just about to post the exact same thing. Summer wasn't a MPDG at all to me. She had a job, her own thoughts and opinions, and life. Which is why her and Tom didn't work out. It wasn't about her saving Tom either. Most of the movie was about what you said, Tom's immaturity, and his growth from their relationship. Thanks for commenting about it.
@dangerironjunkie Some people have made the argument that Summer wasn't an MPDG but that Tom just made her out to be one for his own purposes, I don't know how much I actually agree with that, BUT if that is the case, then that doesn't change the fact that throughout most of the movie she is still portrayed as an MPDG
Great vid! I noticed at the end of 500 Days of Summer (spoiler alert) that the guy seems to be falling for another MPDG, instead of maybe a more solid, sensible woman who might not look as 'pixieish.' (Is that a word? lol)
@dorkabrain My thoughts exactly! As much as I love her, I'd really like to see her take on something else. Remember her character on Weeds? MPDG from hell.
Not to be a devil's advocate, but what if the roles were reversed? What if it was a woman who needed to be lifted from some gloominess? What if a man came into her life to guide her on a journey of self-exploration? Would we be saying that Hollywood is claiming that women need to be rescued (by men) from their dull lives? I doubt we'll see this in a movie anytime soon, but would we be as annoyed or more annoyed if it were a Manic Pixie Dream Man? Thoughts?
@bacrockstar I think I have seen the type of film you describe, "While You Were Sleeping" with Sandra Bullock. I liked the movie, but the heroine seemed to lead a very dull, routine life until she saw HIM (the MPDM) at the train station.
I agree with the way you describe the tropes but do not wholly agree with you on what the problem of these tropes is. It does not bother me that women have these 2d roles in movies any more then it bothers me that men often play roles like Rambo. A character with a particular gender conforming to a particular trope is fine with me the problem exists when particular genders are restricted to certain roles.
I agree, but I think the inclusion of "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" as an example of a flat Pixie Dream Girl character is incredibly unfair to that film. While neither the male or female character in that romance are necessarily perfect people, I would argue they are both presented as people, not flat cut-outs to fulfill the other's character arc.
@Cjrpos Also, at one point in the movie, Kate Winslet addresses the Manic Pixie girl trope when talking to Jim Carey in the bookstore. She lets him know that she isn't some savior that will make him feel young again and that she's just "a fucked up girl looking for her own peace of mind."
@Cjrpos Plus, there's a clear line that Kate Winslet says that turns the trope on its head: "Too many guys think I'm a concept, or I complete them, or I'm gonna make them alive. But I'm just a fucked-up girl who's lookin' for my own peace of mind; don't assign me yours."
I've come across the defense here a few times now that Summer or Clementine are tropes because their stories are told through the memories of men. So much of our society is male-centred and so many Hollywood films told by men, through men, so how can we say that constitutes an adequate defense for poorly drawn/idealized female characters. It's a major flaw in cinematic writing, that's what it is.
You make me feel so much better about myself. I'm tired of this muse shit too. The worst I find is when women are men's muses, and it's because the women are "demure" yet uphold a certain aesthetic. It's not the womens' faults for being shy, since gender roles are imposed upon them/us, but I think more credit should be given to women who speak their minds and show their true selves.
Moving aside the MPDG... I was wondering, did you by any chance see Suckerpunch? if so, do you think it was about female empowerment? After reading the bitch magazine article, i dont know what to think =S
Clementine isn't a manic pixie dream girl, ESOTSM plays with that trope by having Joel realize that he idealized her as such, but beneath that she was actually an insecure and flawed human being.
@lintickk Same with Summer Finn. She had her own desires and needs, which the protagonist ignored in his naive characterization of her as a manic pixie dream girl. That's kind of the point of the movie - by viewing her as an ideal in his head instead of as a person, he loses her.
Also, Natalie Portman's character had a family, one better developed than Zach's. It's not the most genius movie in the world...it's not like Zach Braff got developed beyond mooniness.
Ugh. You want men to write amazing parts for women as supporting characters for their stories that obviously represent themselves as young men? Why aren't you asking WOMEN to write amazing parts representing themselves, and to write full fleshed characters for men as well? Also, if men got what was going on with women inside, life wouldn't be what it is. They idealize us....& hormones help. Stop being mad at humanity 'cause we're all romantics. Are you yelling at ladies for romance novels?
@crinklefish I think it's much more complicated then just "asking women" to do anything. There are systemic and institutional barriers keeping women out, and even when they do make it in Hollywood follows very particular formulas for what stories they will and will not fund and produce.
@crinklefish I'll never get over how pissed it makes me when people respond to women pointing out disparities in equality between genders with "stop being mad." If I were offending you, you'd be mad to, but because you don't take issue with the same things I do, you rudely imply that I'm getting worked up over nothing. I fully believe in your right to not give a sh*t, but I think it's wholly unkind to belittle the concerns of others.
@crinklefish When people say “stop being mad” to women who point out the disparities in equality between genders, it’s essentially implying that what they care about is “not worth it” or “stupid” - if I were offending you, you would be upset, so why should they be any different? How about we all try not to belittle each other’s values and concerns, eh? Just for a change. I like a good disagreement and discussion, but I prefer it when opponents treat one another with some semblance of respect.
@crinklefish Interesting... how much are we responsible for our fantasies? It's worth pointing out that once you are in the business of selling narratives to the masses you have taken on a larger responsibility than mere private indulgence.
@cometkite It's the purpose of videos & discussions like this to take a look at our fantasies and understand them. It's not morally wrong to have a simplistic fantasy; liking the MPDG (or any other trope) doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. But we should all be willing to examine our own fantasies and go "why do I like this? What does it mean? Is there a dark side to it?" I don't think the intention of these videos is to shame, but to analyze & discuss.
@crinklefish LOL @ your idea that all of life (by which I know you mean Culture) is the way it is because men idealize women. Sexism EXISTS because men idealize women, in positive AND negative ways. Your suggestion that men can't appreciate women as equal human beings with similar motivations and desires in order to have romance is very troubling. Women (and men) can enjoy romance novels all they want, but the Culture is telling everyone that that is the norm, and that is wrong. educate yourself
@crinklefish Take a look around, bro. Men get plenty of fleshed out character exposure. Hence the focus on putting women in the foreground. "Also, if men got what was going on with women inside, life wouldn't be what it is." You mean life wouldn't be a patriarchy designed for the success of the wealthy white man? Sign me up! Also, there is nothing special going on "inside" of women. The female brain isn't all that different from the male one. "Are you yelling at ladies for romance novels?" Yes.
@crinklefish real systemic change doesn't happen unless everyone is buying into making that change. And there are male screenwriters and filmmakers who can create successful films and don't use women characters as plot devices
Don't act like women haven't been TRYING to do this shit for years but we have but as FeministFrequency put it, we're still faced with obstacles and bullshit reasons as to why what we write and what we want to produce won't work, won't get funded, and won't get produced. We still live in a society that caters to ONE crowd and anything that is seen as something that doesn't cater towards them is seen as taking too many risk or not worth making at all.
I think this trope is absolutely true and insidious, but also thought a couple examples were deliberate switches on that trope. Penny in Almost Famous, for example, I think caricatures that in the beginning, but by the end realizes trying to be a muse instead of her own person is unsustainable. And Clementine in Eternal Sunshine similarly says something about how she's "a f*cked up girl looking for her own peace of mind so don't assign me yours". Thoughts?
I agree, but still I don't think Natalie Portman's role in "Garden State" can hardly be dubbed the 'quintessential mpdg'. Her character is a little more complex than that, I think, and she doesn't really take care of Largeman. They take care of each other.
I think Summer is more of a subversion of this trope: he thinks she is his Manic Pixie Dream Girl, and is crushed to discover that she's really, really not. On top of this he is an unreliable narrator (as tozzip said in an earlier post) and we can't always trust his descriptions of her behaviour. She is clearly not there for his self-improvement; she has other things to do with her life.
THANK YOU for this video! Your analysis is spot on. I noticed this is #1 in your list of tropes. I hope you also get to the hypersexualized representation of women of color, and how they represent the conquest of white heterosexual men physically and symbolically. I know they also are necessary in the formation of white male identity. I've written about it for my women's and gender studies grad program if you would like me to send you some info. Send me a message if interested :-)
don't forget Natalie Portman in the mr magorium's wonder emporium of delights and fun where she's so perky and twee to Jason Bateman's grumpy accountant, Jason Bateman you so grumpy!
K dunst in crazybeautiful, S Sossamon in 40 days and 40 nights.
Mostly the Manic Pixie is just the spawn of Lazy Writing. To write a script with a fully developed character would require Effort, something Hollywood has no interest in as its movies are rarely created as Art but rather as Box Office moneymakers. Thanks for giving me a list of movies to avoid.
@M4rple Rose definitely fits this trope. I liked her with Nine all right, but Ten really got his rocks off on his female companions swooning all over him. Martha was even clingier than Rose, but at least she was smart enough to snap out of it eventually - she's my hero for that. Donna was the only decent match for Ten, but even then, their story arc ended in angst and dependency.
I love Tennant, but the more I really think about who the Tenth Doctor was, the more it disgusts me.
While I do agree that Rose lifted The Doctor out of a funk, the key to the MPDG trope, is that the female lead is not a fully fleshed out character, beyond being the male lead's bubbly inspiration. Rose was one of Dr. Who's most complex and developed characters, and certainly acted as far more than a catalyst to the Doctor's story line. In fact, I think more stories revolved around Rose's personal growth, and ascent from depression.
@nineteenfiftysixyo the male examples i've seen are also terrible. in general there's this overachiever, frigid and sad woman (probably a "product of feminism") and suddenly a funny, messy, macho guy teaches her to love and been dependent. in this case she change into a more housewife type and take care of the guy so that he can change the world or something...
Unfortunately just another extension of using women as mere tools for male emotional character growth. Combine this with women and refrigerators to create emotional turmoil and you have a full gammet of womenbeing exploited to push a male character or male driven story forward.
Very good video as usual, but what about stories where the Manic Pixie is there to support another woman? Specifically I'm thinking of the webcomic Penny and Aggie which features a character named Lisa who very much seems like Portman's character, she is always there to crack a crazy joke and get the other girls to be less srs, and through her anti-DRM protesting helped bring Aggie out of a slump. I would think in a female centric story the Pixie is less offensive no? I find it to be.
@PetiteOzma I think that is largely because in that context (from your explanation, I'm not a reader) Lisa is just a plucky sidekick/comic to her serious counterpart. Without the white male protagonist and romantic interest, it moves away from being offensive and into just being a vanilla character relationship.
@PetiteOzma Penny and Aggie, themselves, bore me to tears. It's the interactions of some of the side characters that makes the story tolerable. I don't think Lisa is an offensive MPDG, but she's not so interesting that she's a major save to the trope
@TheTitsillator Ya, I agree with most of your comment however, "chick flicks" are not at all representations of women as "real people" they show us as shallow and obsessed with finding Mr. Right.
hey, i love your videos and how you point out the sexism in modern culture but i ask, when are you going to make a video about sucker punch and the director, zach Snyder and also, should i go see sucker punch?
Thanks for this. I now will reevaluate a film I was going to review (Porco Rosso). Parts of it are feminist-friendly, but the girl is definitely a Manic Pixie Dream Girl.
...and this is why sometimes, movies aren't as magical as they try to make themselves out to be. It's not cool to figure out which characters are going to die or what the plot twists are since you already know the formula.
I kind of object to Kate Winslet in "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" being on this list--it's clear he's first attracted to her because he sees her as a MPDG, but we get to see a lot of her psychological baggage, WHY she's so eccentric, that she's sick of guys who see her as a "concept, or to complete them," and that she recognizes she is "messed up." She also shows a lot of her own motivations and agency (like getting rid of him), and the movie is about their strained relationship.
I kind of object to Kate Winslet in "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" being on this list--it's clear he's first attracted to her because he sees her as a MPDG, but we get to see a lot of her psychological baggage, WHY she's so eccentric, that she's sick of guys who see her as a "concept, or to complete them," and that she recognizes she is "messed up." She also shows a lot of her own motivations and agency (like getting rid of him), and the movie is about their strained relationship.
I feel like we need to recognize whether the character is a MPDG or that the male character simply sees them that way which I think is explored in Eternal Sunshine, and even to some degree in 500 days of summer (although whether that was intentional is arguable)
@sphinooccipital Well said. Additionally, Summer in 500 Days of Summer fulfills the criteria to a T, yet as someone mentions, Tom isn't a reliable narrator and sort of mentally manipulates her image. She is everything he wants her to be, until she isn't. And Summer gets rid of Tom at the end to find her own love interest...but I suppose that is also the paradox? She proclaims herself to be a young, independent woman who enjoys being single...and then she gets married at the end. Sigh.
@sphinooccipital I agree. The basic issue with the Manic Dream Girl trope isn't her extroverted personality per se, it's that the character doesn't have motivations of her own other than helping the male protagonist succeed. You could take away her bubblyness but keep her in a subordinate position to the male protagonist and she wouldn't be any better (examples: Pepper from Iron Man, Zoe from Firefly). Clementine is definitely not that, she is an independent character in her own right.
I generally don't like female characters in movies. I don't feel like I can identify with any of them, which causes me to sympathize more with the male ones. This series will be interesting to watch since it will help me identify an annoying trope when I see one.
hello, big fan of the show. just had a small point I wanted to make. the manic pixie dream girl is a bad trope, yes, but it's not the worst one out there, for what that's worth. and there are some examples of the manic pixie dream guy, such as in sliding doors. yes, it's less prevalent, but it's there. anyway, just wanted to say that. I'm looking forward to your next video on tropes, though!
As a counterexample: in "Imagine Me & You" (2005) Lena Headey is the Manic Pixie Dream Girl to Piper Perabo (there's a scene where she teaches her to shout at a ballgame, later Perabo's character uses that skill to keep Headey's from leaving her yadayadayada eternal love). It's interesting because it's not straight, but if you switch Perabo's characters and her husbands genders, it suddenly becomes a very cliché version of that romantic comedy that comes out every quarter.
Wow, this definitely has made me more aware of Hollywood gimmicks. Reanalyzing movies such as those listed reminds me just how little the film industry has changed in thematic style.
i noticed this pattern years ago and no one around me really understood/found it remarkable. i just found out there was a proper term for it this past year and was so ecstatic to know that someone found that this pattern trite and irritating enough to warrant a proper term.
I don't think being a muse is necessarily a purpose for existence in the mind of most artists who cite them, but rather the one part of their relationships that happens to be relevant to the artistic endeavors. It doesn't really do anything to downplay womens' artistic capacities. Indeed, I find that my greatest muses are the women who have let me see the most of themselves emotionally. Whole & complete female artists are far more moving in their complexity than shallow trope embodiments.
"Manic Pixie Dream Girls"? So very true... and I love the term. I think it sort of drives home the point that women shouldn't be too serious or thoughtful... we should be all fluffy and excitable, and not think too much, etc. Now that you mention it, I see this character in all sorts of movies.
I'm glad you mentioned Sweet November, because that is the first movie that came to mind when you described this trope. I've actually noticed this trope and didn't know what it was called. And I love the part where you say, "If I hear that one more time, I am going to scream. Or puke. Or both." Watch out for the scream puke!
Thank you so much for addressing tropes like this! I am an avid peruse-r of TV Tropes, and I often see films listed in examples that represent women in a human light. They are commonly listed as "subversions" or "aversions" of common tropes. I'm glad these subversions exist, but it makes me sad that they are not the norm.
I knew there was something really odd about her character in Elizabethtown that I just didn't like, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I haven't seen the film in a while, but doesn't she end up putting a huge amount of effort into arranging a road trip for this guy she hardly knows? And what happened to her job? That's what I didn't like about her, she so unrealistically devoted to him. It's weird. I find these characters rather annoying, instead of cute.
While Tom definitely sees Summer as a Manic Pixie Dream Girl, it is worth noting that the film is entirely from his point of view and, as we see a few times in the movie, Tom is an unreliable narrator. (The montage where he reviews events where he thought she was happy but are re-contextualized to show she was sad being a good example). I think this poses an interesting problem: using POV to illustrate the protagonists' flaws. Is that a legitimate tactic or is it too easily misused and abused?
@tozzip A great point. It's also important to view the film in the context of the industry as well; personally I've always viewed 500 Days as a quirky commentary on RomComs in general.
another excellent video! thanks!
lauracida 4 months ago
Oh hai, TV Tropes here!
NotOrdinaryInGames 4 months ago
Am I the only one who was kinda creeped out by how childlike Natalie Portman's character was?
MrPBarlow 4 months ago 23
I'm surprised you didn't say much about how these sort of characters give a message to girls that they are "supposed" to "save" men. I wasn't affected by this idea as well as others, but I do know that many women do believe they can "change" a guy because of these characters. Anyway, I subscribed to you, so I can't wait to see more of your videos. BTW I love what you said at the end, because I actually want to be a director myself and do have my own issues. I hope I'll be wonderful role model.:)
fanime1 4 months ago 16
I would hesitate to include Clementine Kruczynski on your list of MPDG. She warns Joel not to place her on that pedestal because she too is a human with her own issues. Their relationship unravels due to his expectations of her and their character flaws; she's massively insecure and he doesn't communicate his thoughts and feelings. Clementine comes off more as meta of the trope rather than an example.
Natalie Portman's character in Garden State can stay though. Poster girl of MPDG indeed.
lazydreamereyes 5 months ago 26
I Dream of Jeannie is pretty much a celebration of several tropes at once, and the guy keeps her in a bottle so that she barely takes up any space. Barf.
RLviddy 5 months ago 2
And what I mean by that is I hear dumb guys saying "omg ur so amazin u saved me, I was nothing before you blaaaahhblaaahhhblaaahhhhh" and I mostly hear this from the so-called "niceguys" who say things like "I'm a feminist" just to get into girl's pants.
j8elliott 5 months ago
These series have opened my mind to a whole new level regarding my little pony. I'm thinking about the characters such as pinkie pie. She is portrayed in a similar way to this, but sometimes she is displayed with more depth.
This video also made me think about how guys often think of me. I've often been labeled as this pixie, possibly because of my personality. Can't I be cheerful and not have to care about their issues all the time?
kitchyteam94 5 months ago 2
To anyone sick of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl- I strongly recommend the book Paper Towns by John Green. A brilliant book with realistic male AND female characters, and one of the central themes is constructing and then deconstructing the MPDG.
In case more persuasion was needed...
“The fundamental mistake I had always made - and that she had, in fairness, always led me to make - was this: Margo was not a miracle. She was not an adventure. She was not a fine and precious thing. She was a girl.”
AtomicOranges 5 months ago 12
what about Melody(!!!), from Woody Allen's Whatever works :/ she's a queen of MPDG... she's stupid, ex small town beauty queen, no job (walks dogs), has sex behind a tent on a coutry fair...
MarijaKovac 5 months ago
(part 2) but otherwise, I love this video because you express all the reasons I hate this trope in its entirety. I don't mind eccentric female characters or guys interested in her for her eccentricities, but so often she's more of a concept than a person. I have faced this quite often in the past, being an openly whimsical and energetic person, and it's frustrating. I know that the guy who is pursuing me doesn't see me, he sees a concept. It, unfortunately, is Truth in Television. And I hate it.
katzgoboom 5 months ago 6
I thought Summer Finn from 500 Days of Summer was more of a deconstruction of the MPDG trope. Tom thought of her as such, which is essentially why she broke up with him. At no point did he listen to her about what SHE wanted, he just thought, "this is the MPDG I have been looking for and we should be together and happy forever" so when he didn't get what he wanted, he got upset. And when she tried to tell him otherwise, he didn't listen. It's about him getting over that ideology.
katzgoboom 5 months ago 17
I dunno, even the examples given here usually have a job, interests, and at least the semblance of their own life. Very few MPDG's actually are as shallow and empty as it was made out at the beginning of this vid. MPDG's actually tend to be some of my favorite characters, and I'm not ashamed to say so.
Cylana 5 months ago 9
I love thinking of these tropes with the gender reversed. What would a manic pixie dream boy be like? How would he be viewed?
toychristopher 5 months ago 9
There is another, though less common, trope that I've noticed. For example, in 'The Ugly Truth' (starring Gerard Butler and Katherine Heigl), a man helps a woman 'loosen up' - in this instance, Butler helped Heigl basically conform to gender stereotypes, by instructing her to wear hair extensions, lingerie, and sexier clothes. This seems a bit like the MPDG, but with a man needing to 'fix' a woman.
I would love to hear anyone else's thoughts on this trend, as I'm still trying to figure it out.
Snipwhiz 5 months ago 9
@Snipwhiz She is his MPDG as well, because she teaches him how to love and care. It is a twist, but it is still a cliché.
pinkeegoobox 5 months ago
@Snipwhiz Good point! Kind of like Rachel Leigh Cook's character in She's All That, when Freddie Prinze Jr. "helped" her realize her sexuality.
mosessumney 5 months ago
Great video! Funny, informative, and easy to understand, especially to those who are unfamiliar with tropes. However, while I agree that most of the examples are indeed MPDGs, I'd argue against including Clementine from "ESOTSM". In fact, I think she described the ridiculousness of the trope better than anyone. "Too many guys think I'm a concept, or I complete them, or I'm gonna make them alive. But I'm just a fucked-up girl who's lookin' for my own peace of mind; don't assign me yours."
candygirl52793 5 months ago 7
@candygirl52793 Someone can deny a stereotype and still embody it.
scottandrewhutchins 5 months ago
Would Yes Man fall into this trope? The crazy, free girl finds her way into the monotonous life of a down and out guy stuck in a dead-end job. Then his life gets better. Though she does have interests of her own, as characterized of her craziness, and though she does have a specific personality, I couldn't help but think of this book/movie as an example of this trope. And the fact that Zooey Deschanel is in it. Love her, but she seems to be a reoccurring factor.
sihtekilsdrawkcabmi 6 months ago
I usually like MPDGs, although their position in the movie annoys me. I really loved Amelie, because it was about the MPDG as a main character, quirkily helping others while trying to get over her own personal issues.
Candypirate11 6 months ago 7
I'm a feminist and I love your trope series, however, I love this trope and almost every movie you've shown in this vlog is a favorite of mine! I simply refuse to feel guilty for enjoying this trope!
BIoodyL 6 months ago 7
What I don't like about this trope is how annoying the manic pixie girl is. Annoying and intrusive. Every time I just want her to mind her own business.
And I don't think there's anything wrong with being inspired by someone else.
kablamo9999 6 months ago
Would a Manic Pixie Dream Girl be okay if it was a girl who meets another girl who's like the manic pixie, and they become best friends? Or can a role-reversal of this trope work?
I'm just curious because I'm a girl but I sometimes feel like THE manic pixie @_@ My friends are usually more depressed than I am and I can't help but care about them and stuff, so I'm always helping out whenever they have a problem...
MizuTakishima3 6 months ago
@MizuTakishima3 no it doesn't work because you're a real live person with dimension and not a movie/anime character.
TinaYouFatLardx7 4 months ago
Zoe Dechannel is the same girl in every fucking movie!!!!
theyforcedmetosignup 6 months ago 5
What if a story is about the "Manic Pixie Dream Girl" and the "lost guy" enters HER life? (but she has her own problems, goals/aspirations, storylines, and grows & changes trough the story)
Would this being going against the trope?
ZmaXcharmvill3 6 months ago
jfc this trope gets on my nerves more tha anything else
particularly when any woman character who is slightly eccentric is made out to be some special snowflake
electriquechair 7 months ago
I like the videos on tropes, but I don't believe that 500 Days of Summer is an example, he is doing okay before she comes along, and actually does worse when she is gone. He loves her, yes, but she doesn't 'change his life' or 'inspire him'. The thing that motivates him to pursue his dreams, is not her, but in fact, her leaving him. In my opinion, it is just a love story.
Pixielly 7 months ago 5
Isnt it dangerous to give the idea of women are the fixers of men, to please them and make them happy so its a woman's job and ultimate failure if she doesnt deliver. It kind of reminds me of the trope that woman have to change a man and bring out a prince in him, even if he is violent, abusive, unlikable and unlovable its still a woman's job to change him or find his goodness. Like in the Beauty and the Beast film (by disney) its not a good idea at all even if disney thinks it is.
patsybob 7 months ago
@Sortsitar It's interesting to note that the whole Harry Potter concept is a pretty close rip off to the Worst Witch books from the 70's, which do have a female protagonist.
KristofskiKabuki 7 months ago
I never paid attention to this before, Nor how it shapes the minds of viewers. One of my favorite comic book artists is a woman, Amanda Connor, I love her work. I never bothered to find out the person's name but assumed that it was a guy.
The constant bombardment of this trope, traps women into a strange form of objectification. She can't be an artist. If she's a woman, she'd better be gorgeous and she'd better be a tool that I use to inspire me to create. lol. she can't be her own person. lol.
YeahOkay3000 7 months ago
I think that woman in transformer 3 is a manic pixie dream girl. I'M SURE OF IT. The main character live in her apartment without paying or having a job...and she tolerate the fact he's jealous against her boss.
SJeeShow 7 months ago
@Sortsitar
I think it really boils down to book sales. I think males have this stigma and belief that a female protagonist means a story that's strictly for girls. Girls frequently read stories about both male and female protagonists but males seldom read many stories where females are the main character.
vampiricange 7 months ago 3
@vampiricange I think it also has to do with advertising. When I was in junior high and elementary school, shows such as Power Puff Girls, Wild Thornberries, Pepper Ann and Carmen San Diego were watch by kids of both genders. Power Puff Girls was also extremely popular.
Kaldary 7 months ago 2
@vampiricange
My Little Pony Friendship is Magic would like a word with you! XD
But yes, the stigma still exist and it is going to take some considerable effort to get rid of it. I find it a bit funny that when you look at it, it seems that women are more accepting towards a character regardless of who they are. The stigma paints men as people who will NOT accept a character unless he looks, thinks, and acts like him which is NOT a good label to put on a person.
TheInkySea 6 months ago
I love this. Manic Pixie Dream Girls plague manga, it's disgusting and I have to sort through so many before I can find any that have legitimate female protagonists.
CynicalMonarch 7 months ago
An older MPDG was Sarah Jessica Parker's character in LA Story, I think. And is it possible for the MPDG to become the main character in a movie? If so, perhaps the result would be Happy Go Lucky.
monarcband 7 months ago
lol! i was watching the animated classic porco rosso from the genius hayao miyazaki (one of the very few deserving of the adjective) and, well... lets say i remembered this video!
attffgg 8 months ago
You're inspiring :) I was having a bad day, and your plucky attitude has made me feel better about myself.
Aimjiel 8 months ago
YES!! Amen!
THANK YOU for that.
0cinatty0 9 months ago
You make this sound like a very recent trope, but it's been around a long time...so it could also be criticized as unoriginal. The French New Wave did it, and virtually every character played by Liza Minelli fits this archetype (esp. The Sterile Cuckoo). She even had a "pixie" haircut.
Or, did you purposefully leave out performances that were well-acted?
seanchrishayes 9 months ago
I think this series is very good. But I don't think the implication is that all women are like that, or even that a movie/book shows a full picture of each character. A story needs a narrative perspective, and if it is written from the man's point of view then all that is told in the story will link back to the man himself. I think we just need more stories lead by females to balance things out.
jdenicholls 9 months ago
(...cont'd) ...and most importantly we see her have significant relationships with other characters, including other women (Hermione and Ginny).
Anyway, that was the first example that came to mind. The point I'm trying to make is that the MPDG is not an inherently bad or offensive trope, is only becomes offensive when the character is poorly written.
daleksr 9 months ago 18
@daleksr I don't think Luna is an MPDG at all, while she may have some similar characteristics her existence isn't to bring joy and meaning to Harry's life.
feministfrequency 9 months ago 92
@feministfrequency I don't think Luna is a MPDG either. I do agree with daleksr's original point: a character with MPDG qualities isn't a stereotype IF the character herself has more depth. In fact, both (500) Days of Summer seems to show that the perfect MPDG stereotype is in fact a myth, which is one reason why the relationship fails. Kate Winslet's character in Eternal Sunshine actually warns him not to make her into his saving grace because she's just a real, screwed up human being like him.
JustPlainSomething 8 months ago 2
@feministfrequency I completely agree. She's just there to represent creativity and yes, while her eccentricities become a comfort for Harry (because she's one of the few who doesn't treat Harry like he's special and she's highly perceptive so she realizes when Harry needs a hand when he's not saying so himself), he is not madly in love with her, nor is she his inspiration moreso than any of his other friends. She's there to provide assistance to Harry in saving the world, not to be his muse.
katzgoboom 5 months ago 2
(...cont'd) Luna exhibits most of the traits of an MPDG. She has a childlike innocence combined with wiseness beyond her years, she is noted as being outside the mainsteam, she plays a nurturing/confidante role to the white, straight, male main character, opening his eyes to new ways of thinking (though she is not a love interest). However, she is also well-developed outside of this role. We learn a lot about her family and home, her interest in nature and conspiracy theories (con't...)
daleksr 9 months ago 2
Good video with some interesting points. But I would contest the notion that the MPDG is an inherently bad trope. It is an offensive trope when, as you say, the girl exists entirely in relation to the man and doesn't have any interests or life outside of him. However, if she plays the MPDG role but also is well-developed outside of that, then I would say that she is a perfectly well-written character.
One example that comes to mind is Luna Lovegood from the Harry Potter series. (cont'd..)
daleksr 9 months ago
Scream-vomit? That would be gross.
spankmecold 9 months ago
omg, i just watched this video the other day, and this is TOTALLY what is happening in Thor. Natalie Portman has absolutely no purpose in the movie except to help Thor grow while he is in exile. GAHHH hollywood wtf.
jzswells 9 months ago
I just realized that Penny from Dr Horrible's Sing-Along Blog is pretty much a MPDG.... :/
CelebrenIthil 9 months ago
The entire point of Eternal Sunshine is that Clementine is emphatically NOT a manic pixie dream girl. "I'm not a concept. Too many guys think I'm a concept or I complete them or I'm going to make them alive, but I'm just a fucked up girl who's looking for my own peace of mind. Don't assign me yours." Most of the movie is Joel's memory of her reminding him that his idealized vision of her & their relationship is not reality. 500 Days of Summer attempts a similar thing.
kismetprismatism 9 months ago 260
@kismetprismatism yeah i think you have a point actually - especially with clementine. with 500 days of summer it's more open to interpretation, though. my male friend's reaction to summer as a character was "that BITCH!", as if she had to be grateful to the heavens that a nice guy was interested in her. there is also the fact that summer only becomes 'human' rather than idealised vs. selfish bitch when... she falls in love with another man. it is this relationship that humanises her.
lauracida 4 months ago 9
While the MPDG is one of my least favorite fiction tropes and this video is very well done, I'm fairly certain that Summer and Clementine are both deconstructions of the MPDG. Both make a point of mentioning that their guy's reliance on them for happiness is one of the major failings of their relationships as they're really just fucked up girls, themselves.
My Sassy Girl was really atrocious, though.
Jonnygasms 9 months ago 5
I cannot disagree with anything in this video besides Clementine from Eternal Sunshine of The Spotless Mind and Penny Lane in Almost Famous.
cormano64 9 months ago
Hi feministfrequency. I know taste is a relative thing but I was wondering if you could recommend any film you thought was good, and also had the female characters as 'complete human beings with their own troubles, interests and creative endeavors'?
roryphelan 9 months ago
My Sassy Girl doesn't really fit this. She's horribly damaged (particularly in the Korean original), with her own family and issues. Also, he's perfectly happy in the beginning, and she actually makes his life hell.
Otherwise, though, this is a spot-on video, and I'm glad to see this trope taken apart.
prometheusnox 10 months ago
Also what is with this perpetual comeuppance these manic pixie girls get. Most of them end up getting killed off in the end because they were secretly dying the entire movie and now they must die from cancer after teaching the male protagonist how to love life. Sweet November, Here on Earth, and A walk to remember are perfect examples. It pisses me off.
Shattercity 10 months ago
@Shattercity Forrest Gump
sstonesful 10 months ago
@Shattercity Without depth of their own, they no longer serve a purpose once they've taught the main character the lesson in enjoying life.
jpferal 9 months ago
Wow! That female character is in every other romantic comedy
AnnaBarton10 10 months ago
It's true that women aren't here for the inspiration of men, but please tell me why it's wrong for a man to be inspired by a woman.
minnaow 10 months ago 8
@minnaow I was about to ask the same thing. Although I understand that it would be a nice change to see a woman painter/writer/artist (which already exists in films like the hours or Frida), I really don't see what's so negative about us being a source of inspiration for artists and creators of all sorts. On the contrary, I find it flattering.
alrune8 9 months ago 2
@minnaow It's not wrong! It's wrong when a woman is portrated as existing ONLY for the inspiration of men. Human beings can and should find inspiration from others, we all have things to learn from each other. The problem is that the MPDG reduces the female lead down to a single simplistic message ("Have fun!"), denying her any feelings of her own. This might not even be "wrong" in isolation in a single movie, but across many movies, books, and TV shows, it becomes a stereotype.
jpferal 9 months ago
Oh, I almost forgot: We should also consider how these characters are constantly presented as unstable in some way, either physically, but in most cases, mentally. There seems to always be something peculiarly wrong with them, making them strange, sometimes inactive, contributors to society, whatever their vehicle of production & meaning may be. There is also this assumption that in order for a woman to be desirable, she must not be the intellectual equivalent or superior of the male lead.
toyinoluwa 10 months ago 6
@toyinoluwa Alternatively: a man who is a "fallen hero" (to use the verbiage in the video); who demonstrates that he is vulnerable, shy, flawed; is an undesirable man, he is failing to live up to an image of ideal men as bold and courageous; therefore only a mentally ill woman would find him attractive.
jpferal 9 months ago
Although you make very good points, I don't think those parts are written for men. I haven't seen any of the movies you listed. I don't think the previews are even marketed to men. Men see them because their wives and girlfriends want to see them. I mean, not even one explosion. :=) jk. Just a though. By the way your videos are well made and entertaining, I enjoy watching them.
tubeadict222 10 months ago
You have captions! <3
AndreaTheNerd 10 months ago
Thoughtful stuff...Penny Lane in Almost Famous is based on a real person. And she does leave "the scene" at the end of the movie. I don't think it was an dishonest depiction of that time or milieu. I don't watch the movie and say "women should be like that". I watch it and say "here's a depiction of one woman" and in this case, I don't think it's fair to reduce her to a MPDG. Some of the other films you mention were average or worse partly because the females were uninteresting MPDGs.
BrentMosherMusic 10 months ago
i have a firm belief that it was a male lover that was the inspiration for the mona lisa... i hope its true!
acf870 10 months ago
I have nothing against Romance books just the crap cliche ones, where you get whisped away by men in shiny armour because thats not real romance, its a real romance book then and follows the principles both male and female characters will be appreciated as the hero/heroines of the story as full individuals...
patsybob 10 months ago
I agree with all except Clementine in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind. In fact, I think Charlie Kaufman makes a point of not portraying Clem as a character whose purpose is to "save" Joel from his doom and gloom. She says "Too many guys think I'm a concept or I complete them or I'm going to make them alive, but I'm just a fucked up girl who is looking for my own peace of mind." She's an independent, strong character, and doesn't just exist to show Joel the childlike beauty of the world.
martintherebel 10 months ago 8
I disagree about 500 Days of Summer. Summer isn't really a MPDG; Tom is immature and sees her that way, which is why they don't work out. The movie is about how he fell in love with the idea of Summer (a MPDG idea), not the girl Summer. Eventually he grows up and realizes this, and they both go on to be with other people. IMHO this movie does not celebrate the MPDG, but rather demonstrates why Tom needed to mature beyond that idea.
ladynightblade 10 months ago 3
@ladynightblade
I was just about to post the exact same thing. Summer wasn't a MPDG at all to me. She had a job, her own thoughts and opinions, and life. Which is why her and Tom didn't work out. It wasn't about her saving Tom either. Most of the movie was about what you said, Tom's immaturity, and his growth from their relationship. Thanks for commenting about it.
dangerironjunkie 10 months ago
@dangerironjunkie Some people have made the argument that Summer wasn't an MPDG but that Tom just made her out to be one for his own purposes, I don't know how much I actually agree with that, BUT if that is the case, then that doesn't change the fact that throughout most of the movie she is still portrayed as an MPDG
feministfrequency 10 months ago 3
Great vid! I noticed at the end of 500 Days of Summer (spoiler alert) that the guy seems to be falling for another MPDG, instead of maybe a more solid, sensible woman who might not look as 'pixieish.' (Is that a word? lol)
authoress1 10 months ago
I love that Charlize Theron's character in Arrested Development made clear how absurd this trope is.
sleepyasthesouth 10 months ago 4
Annie Hall: La di da, la di da. Watch the Adjustment Bureau for another representation of the MPDG. Gag me.
karacherith 10 months ago
Sam from Garden State has a family. She has somewhat of a storyline of her own.
Riselikethetide 10 months ago
Ramona in Scott Pilgrim
LanceDirk 10 months ago 4
I could of sworn the Manic Pixie Dream Girl title was formed around Zooey Deschanel. It seems her entire career is a multitude of MPDGs.
dorkabrain 10 months ago 6
@dorkabrain My thoughts exactly! As much as I love her, I'd really like to see her take on something else. Remember her character on Weeds? MPDG from hell.
sleepyasthesouth 10 months ago
Not to be a devil's advocate, but what if the roles were reversed? What if it was a woman who needed to be lifted from some gloominess? What if a man came into her life to guide her on a journey of self-exploration? Would we be saying that Hollywood is claiming that women need to be rescued (by men) from their dull lives? I doubt we'll see this in a movie anytime soon, but would we be as annoyed or more annoyed if it were a Manic Pixie Dream Man? Thoughts?
bacrockstar 10 months ago
@bacrockstar I think I have seen the type of film you describe, "While You Were Sleeping" with Sandra Bullock. I liked the movie, but the heroine seemed to lead a very dull, routine life until she saw HIM (the MPDM) at the train station.
authoress1 10 months ago
Ok, there are no words for how much I love these videos. And @tozzip, interesting point! Thanks for sharing!
kvinnogatan 10 months ago
I agree with the way you describe the tropes but do not wholly agree with you on what the problem of these tropes is. It does not bother me that women have these 2d roles in movies any more then it bothers me that men often play roles like Rambo. A character with a particular gender conforming to a particular trope is fine with me the problem exists when particular genders are restricted to certain roles.
antonyneal 10 months ago
I agree, but I think the inclusion of "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" as an example of a flat Pixie Dream Girl character is incredibly unfair to that film. While neither the male or female character in that romance are necessarily perfect people, I would argue they are both presented as people, not flat cut-outs to fulfill the other's character arc.
Cjrpos 10 months ago 10
@Cjrpos Also, at one point in the movie, Kate Winslet addresses the Manic Pixie girl trope when talking to Jim Carey in the bookstore. She lets him know that she isn't some savior that will make him feel young again and that she's just "a fucked up girl looking for her own peace of mind."
SampaJasli 10 months ago
@Cjrpos Plus, there's a clear line that Kate Winslet says that turns the trope on its head: "Too many guys think I'm a concept, or I complete them, or I'm gonna make them alive. But I'm just a fucked-up girl who's lookin' for my own peace of mind; don't assign me yours."
thejobloshow 10 months ago
you're my hero.
tillypetals 10 months ago 4
WOW you just about nailed what about these characters that has had me annoyed as fuck for the longest time.
plindiful 10 months ago 5
I've come across the defense here a few times now that Summer or Clementine are tropes because their stories are told through the memories of men. So much of our society is male-centred and so many Hollywood films told by men, through men, so how can we say that constitutes an adequate defense for poorly drawn/idealized female characters. It's a major flaw in cinematic writing, that's what it is.
ohallorandeirdre 10 months ago 5
Comedian Rich Hall does a great bit about Tom Cruise that covers this exact trope.
thejobloshow 10 months ago
You make me feel so much better about myself. I'm tired of this muse shit too. The worst I find is when women are men's muses, and it's because the women are "demure" yet uphold a certain aesthetic. It's not the womens' faults for being shy, since gender roles are imposed upon them/us, but I think more credit should be given to women who speak their minds and show their true selves.
mariaperiwinkle 10 months ago 2
Moving aside the MPDG... I was wondering, did you by any chance see Suckerpunch? if so, do you think it was about female empowerment? After reading the bitch magazine article, i dont know what to think =S
Zamzagas 10 months ago
Clementine isn't a manic pixie dream girl, ESOTSM plays with that trope by having Joel realize that he idealized her as such, but beneath that she was actually an insecure and flawed human being.
lintickk 11 months ago 57
@lintickk Same with Summer Finn. She had her own desires and needs, which the protagonist ignored in his naive characterization of her as a manic pixie dream girl. That's kind of the point of the movie - by viewing her as an ideal in his head instead of as a person, he loses her.
Alloflifedecays 7 months ago 3
How would you respond to that most, if not all, of these movies are all catered and happily consumed by their target audience: women?
friendlysoviet 11 months ago
Also, Natalie Portman's character had a family, one better developed than Zach's. It's not the most genius movie in the world...it's not like Zach Braff got developed beyond mooniness.
crinklefish 11 months ago
Ugh. You want men to write amazing parts for women as supporting characters for their stories that obviously represent themselves as young men? Why aren't you asking WOMEN to write amazing parts representing themselves, and to write full fleshed characters for men as well? Also, if men got what was going on with women inside, life wouldn't be what it is. They idealize us....& hormones help. Stop being mad at humanity 'cause we're all romantics. Are you yelling at ladies for romance novels?
crinklefish 11 months ago
@crinklefish I think it's much more complicated then just "asking women" to do anything. There are systemic and institutional barriers keeping women out, and even when they do make it in Hollywood follows very particular formulas for what stories they will and will not fund and produce.
feministfrequency 10 months ago 95
@crinklefish I'll never get over how pissed it makes me when people respond to women pointing out disparities in equality between genders with "stop being mad." If I were offending you, you'd be mad to, but because you don't take issue with the same things I do, you rudely imply that I'm getting worked up over nothing. I fully believe in your right to not give a sh*t, but I think it's wholly unkind to belittle the concerns of others.
UWnic6090 10 months ago
@crinklefish When people say “stop being mad” to women who point out the disparities in equality between genders, it’s essentially implying that what they care about is “not worth it” or “stupid” - if I were offending you, you would be upset, so why should they be any different? How about we all try not to belittle each other’s values and concerns, eh? Just for a change. I like a good disagreement and discussion, but I prefer it when opponents treat one another with some semblance of respect.
UWnic6090 10 months ago
@crinklefish Interesting... how much are we responsible for our fantasies? It's worth pointing out that once you are in the business of selling narratives to the masses you have taken on a larger responsibility than mere private indulgence.
cometkite 10 months ago
@cometkite It's the purpose of videos & discussions like this to take a look at our fantasies and understand them. It's not morally wrong to have a simplistic fantasy; liking the MPDG (or any other trope) doesn't necessarily make you a bad person. But we should all be willing to examine our own fantasies and go "why do I like this? What does it mean? Is there a dark side to it?" I don't think the intention of these videos is to shame, but to analyze & discuss.
jpferal 9 months ago
@crinklefish LOL @ your idea that all of life (by which I know you mean Culture) is the way it is because men idealize women. Sexism EXISTS because men idealize women, in positive AND negative ways. Your suggestion that men can't appreciate women as equal human beings with similar motivations and desires in order to have romance is very troubling. Women (and men) can enjoy romance novels all they want, but the Culture is telling everyone that that is the norm, and that is wrong. educate yourself
motorghost 10 months ago
@crinklefish Take a look around, bro. Men get plenty of fleshed out character exposure. Hence the focus on putting women in the foreground. "Also, if men got what was going on with women inside, life wouldn't be what it is." You mean life wouldn't be a patriarchy designed for the success of the wealthy white man? Sign me up! Also, there is nothing special going on "inside" of women. The female brain isn't all that different from the male one. "Are you yelling at ladies for romance novels?" Yes.
xlunatichigh 9 months ago
@crinklefish Wait, is that a real comment?
SlipkPie 8 months ago
@crinklefish real systemic change doesn't happen unless everyone is buying into making that change. And there are male screenwriters and filmmakers who can create successful films and don't use women characters as plot devices
soapygirl83 7 months ago
@crinklefish
Don't act like women haven't been TRYING to do this shit for years but we have but as FeministFrequency put it, we're still faced with obstacles and bullshit reasons as to why what we write and what we want to produce won't work, won't get funded, and won't get produced. We still live in a society that caters to ONE crowd and anything that is seen as something that doesn't cater towards them is seen as taking too many risk or not worth making at all.
TheInkySea 6 months ago
I think this trope is absolutely true and insidious, but also thought a couple examples were deliberate switches on that trope. Penny in Almost Famous, for example, I think caricatures that in the beginning, but by the end realizes trying to be a muse instead of her own person is unsustainable. And Clementine in Eternal Sunshine similarly says something about how she's "a f*cked up girl looking for her own peace of mind so don't assign me yours". Thoughts?
NoQuarterZp 11 months ago
I agree, but still I don't think Natalie Portman's role in "Garden State" can hardly be dubbed the 'quintessential mpdg'. Her character is a little more complex than that, I think, and she doesn't really take care of Largeman. They take care of each other.
Fluorit 11 months ago 2
I think Summer is more of a subversion of this trope: he thinks she is his Manic Pixie Dream Girl, and is crushed to discover that she's really, really not. On top of this he is an unreliable narrator (as tozzip said in an earlier post) and we can't always trust his descriptions of her behaviour. She is clearly not there for his self-improvement; she has other things to do with her life.
maeghan1edits 11 months ago 5
THANK YOU for this video! Your analysis is spot on. I noticed this is #1 in your list of tropes. I hope you also get to the hypersexualized representation of women of color, and how they represent the conquest of white heterosexual men physically and symbolically. I know they also are necessary in the formation of white male identity. I've written about it for my women's and gender studies grad program if you would like me to send you some info. Send me a message if interested :-)
juanra85 11 months ago
Sarah Jessica Parker was a satire of this in LA Story. I at least think it's satire.
When I was a kid I really liked the idea of being discovered by a quirky girl who could see the potential. This stuff makes me cringe now.
villista68 11 months ago
don't forget Natalie Portman in the mr magorium's wonder emporium of delights and fun where she's so perky and twee to Jason Bateman's grumpy accountant, Jason Bateman you so grumpy!
K dunst in crazybeautiful, S Sossamon in 40 days and 40 nights.
SiLeNtPuNk1 11 months ago
Mostly the Manic Pixie is just the spawn of Lazy Writing. To write a script with a fully developed character would require Effort, something Hollywood has no interest in as its movies are rarely created as Art but rather as Box Office moneymakers. Thanks for giving me a list of movies to avoid.
rose13red 11 months ago 4
What do you think of the female companions/protagonists in Doctor Who?
M4rple 11 months ago
@M4rple Rose definitely fits this trope. I liked her with Nine all right, but Ten really got his rocks off on his female companions swooning all over him. Martha was even clingier than Rose, but at least she was smart enough to snap out of it eventually - she's my hero for that. Donna was the only decent match for Ten, but even then, their story arc ended in angst and dependency.
I love Tennant, but the more I really think about who the Tenth Doctor was, the more it disgusts me.
ethereal0313 10 months ago
@ethereal0313
While I do agree that Rose lifted The Doctor out of a funk, the key to the MPDG trope, is that the female lead is not a fully fleshed out character, beyond being the male lead's bubbly inspiration. Rose was one of Dr. Who's most complex and developed characters, and certainly acted as far more than a catalyst to the Doctor's story line. In fact, I think more stories revolved around Rose's personal growth, and ascent from depression.
TheHarlequinHatter 10 months ago
is theres any male examples--of this manic pixie.
nineteenfiftysixyo 11 months ago
@nineteenfiftysixyo the male examples i've seen are also terrible. in general there's this overachiever, frigid and sad woman (probably a "product of feminism") and suddenly a funny, messy, macho guy teaches her to love and been dependent. in this case she change into a more housewife type and take care of the guy so that he can change the world or something...
6lhulhu6 11 months ago
Unfortunately just another extension of using women as mere tools for male emotional character growth. Combine this with women and refrigerators to create emotional turmoil and you have a full gammet of womenbeing exploited to push a male character or male driven story forward.
ArcaneSky 11 months ago
What do you think about Margo Roth Spiegelman from Paper Towns?
Loverwife 11 months ago
Very good video as usual, but what about stories where the Manic Pixie is there to support another woman? Specifically I'm thinking of the webcomic Penny and Aggie which features a character named Lisa who very much seems like Portman's character, she is always there to crack a crazy joke and get the other girls to be less srs, and through her anti-DRM protesting helped bring Aggie out of a slump. I would think in a female centric story the Pixie is less offensive no? I find it to be.
PetiteOzma 11 months ago
@PetiteOzma I think that is largely because in that context (from your explanation, I'm not a reader) Lisa is just a plucky sidekick/comic to her serious counterpart. Without the white male protagonist and romantic interest, it moves away from being offensive and into just being a vanilla character relationship.
cosmothespook 11 months ago
@PetiteOzma Penny and Aggie, themselves, bore me to tears. It's the interactions of some of the side characters that makes the story tolerable. I don't think Lisa is an offensive MPDG, but she's not so interesting that she's a major save to the trope
madmadameminx 11 months ago
@TheTitsillator Ya, I agree with most of your comment however, "chick flicks" are not at all representations of women as "real people" they show us as shallow and obsessed with finding Mr. Right.
feministfrequency 11 months ago
@feministfrequency I didn't say that they were.
TripleSpeak 11 months ago
@TripleSpeak Oh I thought you did, and now the comment has been removed, did you do that?
feministfrequency 11 months ago
kol hakavod! (all the honor to you!)
findnwatch88 11 months ago
I am my own Manic Pixie DG: I teach myself how to have fun and enjoy life!
turtlewings 11 months ago
hey, i love your videos and how you point out the sexism in modern culture but i ask, when are you going to make a video about sucker punch and the director, zach Snyder and also, should i go see sucker punch?
bobster5412 11 months ago
I've noticed this is tons of movies, I never thought it had a name! Thank you for another great video.
SazzyIsSnazzy 11 months ago
Thanks for this. I now will reevaluate a film I was going to review (Porco Rosso). Parts of it are feminist-friendly, but the girl is definitely a Manic Pixie Dream Girl.
GoingRampant 11 months ago
...and this is why sometimes, movies aren't as magical as they try to make themselves out to be. It's not cool to figure out which characters are going to die or what the plot twists are since you already know the formula.
disenchantedgrl 11 months ago
I kind of object to Kate Winslet in "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" being on this list--it's clear he's first attracted to her because he sees her as a MPDG, but we get to see a lot of her psychological baggage, WHY she's so eccentric, that she's sick of guys who see her as a "concept, or to complete them," and that she recognizes she is "messed up." She also shows a lot of her own motivations and agency (like getting rid of him), and the movie is about their strained relationship.
sphinooccipital 11 months ago
REAL TALK.
justsomeapples 11 months ago
I kind of object to Kate Winslet in "The Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" being on this list--it's clear he's first attracted to her because he sees her as a MPDG, but we get to see a lot of her psychological baggage, WHY she's so eccentric, that she's sick of guys who see her as a "concept, or to complete them," and that she recognizes she is "messed up." She also shows a lot of her own motivations and agency (like getting rid of him), and the movie is about their strained relationship.
sphinooccipital 11 months ago 42
@sphinooccipital Concurred
I feel like we need to recognize whether the character is a MPDG or that the male character simply sees them that way which I think is explored in Eternal Sunshine, and even to some degree in 500 days of summer (although whether that was intentional is arguable)
larkaFirewind 11 months ago
@sphinooccipital Well said. Additionally, Summer in 500 Days of Summer fulfills the criteria to a T, yet as someone mentions, Tom isn't a reliable narrator and sort of mentally manipulates her image. She is everything he wants her to be, until she isn't. And Summer gets rid of Tom at the end to find her own love interest...but I suppose that is also the paradox? She proclaims herself to be a young, independent woman who enjoys being single...and then she gets married at the end. Sigh.
excellentttt 11 months ago 2
@sphinooccipital I agree. The basic issue with the Manic Dream Girl trope isn't her extroverted personality per se, it's that the character doesn't have motivations of her own other than helping the male protagonist succeed. You could take away her bubblyness but keep her in a subordinate position to the male protagonist and she wouldn't be any better (examples: Pepper from Iron Man, Zoe from Firefly). Clementine is definitely not that, she is an independent character in her own right.
jpferal 9 months ago
@sphinooccipital I was going to point this out too, but you did it better than I could. Thank you!
IllyriaGodKing 9 months ago
I generally don't like female characters in movies. I don't feel like I can identify with any of them, which causes me to sympathize more with the male ones. This series will be interesting to watch since it will help me identify an annoying trope when I see one.
Bauch373 11 months ago
@Bauch373 Watch Blue Valentine.
FishRabies 11 months ago
Natalie Portman plays the same role in Beautiful Girls.
cmartinrel 11 months ago
hello, big fan of the show. just had a small point I wanted to make. the manic pixie dream girl is a bad trope, yes, but it's not the worst one out there, for what that's worth. and there are some examples of the manic pixie dream guy, such as in sliding doors. yes, it's less prevalent, but it's there. anyway, just wanted to say that. I'm looking forward to your next video on tropes, though!
HybridOwl 11 months ago
As a counterexample: in "Imagine Me & You" (2005) Lena Headey is the Manic Pixie Dream Girl to Piper Perabo (there's a scene where she teaches her to shout at a ballgame, later Perabo's character uses that skill to keep Headey's from leaving her yadayadayada eternal love). It's interesting because it's not straight, but if you switch Perabo's characters and her husbands genders, it suddenly becomes a very cliché version of that romantic comedy that comes out every quarter.
funkycoder1 11 months ago
Wow, this definitely has made me more aware of Hollywood gimmicks. Reanalyzing movies such as those listed reminds me just how little the film industry has changed in thematic style.
lookit87 11 months ago 2
YES to this video 100x over.
i noticed this pattern years ago and no one around me really understood/found it remarkable. i just found out there was a proper term for it this past year and was so ecstatic to know that someone found that this pattern trite and irritating enough to warrant a proper term.
anteggma 11 months ago 4
Thanks this is a great informative video, will look out for this.
xKeehl 11 months ago
I don't think being a muse is necessarily a purpose for existence in the mind of most artists who cite them, but rather the one part of their relationships that happens to be relevant to the artistic endeavors. It doesn't really do anything to downplay womens' artistic capacities. Indeed, I find that my greatest muses are the women who have let me see the most of themselves emotionally. Whole & complete female artists are far more moving in their complexity than shallow trope embodiments.
ChaosLierLen 11 months ago 2
"Manic Pixie Dream Girls"? So very true... and I love the term. I think it sort of drives home the point that women shouldn't be too serious or thoughtful... we should be all fluffy and excitable, and not think too much, etc. Now that you mention it, I see this character in all sorts of movies.
P.S. I dig the new haircut!
MirandaZ2000 11 months ago 3
Great video. I am always so happy when you make a new one.
meemer115 11 months ago
I really like your videos.
Thx for making them ;)
Gelu84 11 months ago
I'm glad you mentioned Sweet November, because that is the first movie that came to mind when you described this trope. I've actually noticed this trope and didn't know what it was called. And I love the part where you say, "If I hear that one more time, I am going to scream. Or puke. Or both." Watch out for the scream puke!
Anyway, can't wait for the rest of this series.
babileilei 11 months ago
Thank you so much for addressing tropes like this! I am an avid peruse-r of TV Tropes, and I often see films listed in examples that represent women in a human light. They are commonly listed as "subversions" or "aversions" of common tropes. I'm glad these subversions exist, but it makes me sad that they are not the norm.
listenheed 11 months ago
I knew there was something really odd about her character in Elizabethtown that I just didn't like, but I couldn't put my finger on it. I haven't seen the film in a while, but doesn't she end up putting a huge amount of effort into arranging a road trip for this guy she hardly knows? And what happened to her job? That's what I didn't like about her, she so unrealistically devoted to him. It's weird. I find these characters rather annoying, instead of cute.
RosefulEvelyns 11 months ago
While Tom definitely sees Summer as a Manic Pixie Dream Girl, it is worth noting that the film is entirely from his point of view and, as we see a few times in the movie, Tom is an unreliable narrator. (The montage where he reviews events where he thought she was happy but are re-contextualized to show she was sad being a good example). I think this poses an interesting problem: using POV to illustrate the protagonists' flaws. Is that a legitimate tactic or is it too easily misused and abused?
tozzip 11 months ago 72
@tozzip A great point. It's also important to view the film in the context of the industry as well; personally I've always viewed 500 Days as a quirky commentary on RomComs in general.
WeeklyWeasel 10 months ago