@brofun >"responding to the 42000 year...he was saying that man was 42000 in the making from the begining of creaiton..6 creative days..-= 42,000 years"
Freddy said: 1day is 1,000yrs for each day.
Note:
man was created on the 6th creative day (Gen1:26-31); 1day before 7th day sabbath rest (Gen2:1-4; Ex20:8-11). Freddy acknowledged that. So Freddy's figure through his own calculations of 1day being 1,000yrs, still does not work out to be 42,000 years passing before God created man. Do the math.
This speech by Freddy was given in 1971. And in WT 2/15/1970 pg119, we read:
"There is nothing in the Genesis account, then, to contradict the scientific conclusions of modern scientists that the material universe, including the earth, may be many thousands of millions of years old."
So here we see one year later, Freddy is teaching in opposition to Jehovah's organization!
I tell ya brofun, they're all liars at Watchtower Headquarters, they can't keep their lying stories straight.
@barbsinclair barbs..don't really know what you are talking about. ARe you saying that the WT taught the earth was only six thousand years old at one time?
@brofun >"ARe you saying that the WT taught the earth was only six thousand years old at one time?"
Not me.
Its what Freddy Franz said in 1971. He says when God began creating for purpose of making, only 42,000 creative time years passed THAN God created man on 6th day, and by 1975 ONLY 6,000 years human history passed. You do the math!
BUT "Jehovah's organization" says "that the material universe, including the earth, may be MANY THOUSANDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD" WT 2/15/1970 page119
JW's use the word apostate like whites used "japs" in WW2. Turn your enemy into a monster. You ever try to wake someone up? Especially when they are dreaming of a Paradise? Oh how they swing and bite hah hah
It appears that TF18 is rather close minded and not really looking for truth. Because, she ALREADY DECIDED that whatever I would quote from the Watchtower, would be a misquote before I even presented the publication! Sad...
@TinaFan18 everyone is an apostate..Certainly most JW are because most of them - including Rutherford, Russell where of other religions they spoke against later - no different..
@TinaFan18>"apostates please come back to Jehovah"
Jehovah knows all who think coming back to an organization is coming back to HIM, are idolaters. For God has said:
"I WILL DWELL IN THEM, and WALK IN THEM; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." 2Co6:17-18
@TinaFan18 That's just it. Many of us so called apostates have only been called so, because we chose to follow Jehovah and Jesus and NOT the WTS. Many of us don't need to "come back to Jehovah" we never left HIM, we left the men who claim things in His name that don't come true Deut 18:21-22, we left those who changed the words of the bible, Rev 22:18-19, and many other references in the bible that make clear false prophets. I personally chose God over the WTS, just as God said to.
What am I misquoting? All I was gonna show you is the GB praising its members for selling their houses/possessions pre 1975, then them condemning them post 1975 for doing such things. No misquoting needed.
Brother Franz is very limpid in this video and his words can easily be distorted and perverted by biased upset Apostates and religious haters of JW's. All please come to Jehovah and be saved, please do not act as those of Noah's Day and the Religious Pharisees.
All of you Apostates are really sick, no where in this video does Brother Franz say that 1975 is the End of the World, he says that 'something is in the air' he never told you what he was thinking, so why try to say what you think he was saying in his mind. Some assuming, that is apostates problem, they assume too much.
@TinaFan18 Why did 1975 need to be emphasized at all? and why don't we still hear about it if it was such a significant date? The facts are that every JW was expected to believe that the end was coming in 1975. I know, I was there, i was suppose to graduate that year, instead I quit school 2 years early because the end was coming in 75.
@earnestlyseeking You were the one too decide to leave school 2 years earlier, the Faithful Slave never told you that. The point of the Brothers pin-pointing 1975 was too follow Jesus admonishment to "Keep On the Watch" Matthew 24;42* The individual members who sold their homes, left their jobs and went beyond the direction of the Organization, all have left the truth, because instead of following Jehovah, they followed a date, which was never intended to be the "End"
@TinaFan18 What you say is what the story is now. But what was happening at the time was quite different. The people who sold all and pioneered were praise for being faithful, now they are viewed as stupid for putting to much emphasis on a date. The bottom line is the scriptures said nothing about 1975, 1914, 1919, 1925 or any other date. The Society has lead people astray many times down thru the years.
@earnestlyseeking But you fail to recognize God's word where in Daniel 12;4 where it says 'many will rove about' rove about where? in God's Word. Only JW's have recognized Jesus Christ invisible presence in 1914, you may laugh, belittle, scoff and mock us but we are the only ones Keeping on the Watch concerning Jesus presence and the End of this system of things. Quote one Watchtower publication where the Society has called its members stupid and where members praised for a date?
@TinaFan18 Yeah, I know you said that, the question is why did he say anything at all about 1975, and why doesn't the organization say anything about it now if it were so important. Oh and by the way, you are talking to an apostate here, and according the the 7-15-11 Watchtower, 2nd study article, that is a big no-no. :)
@earnestlyseeking apparently, you don't really research deeply, or choose to understand. We aren't perfect..never claimed to be. However, we do 'rove about' in God's word..seeking understanding of bible prophecy. The dates you mentioned ARE biblical..and the understanding of them is now complete. True, at times, our understanding of certain dates is vague, and once in a while, wrong in the assumption of what will happen. But, when wrong, we go back to the bible and seek correction.
@brofun If Jesus said that no one would know the day or the hour, not the angels in heaven or even Him (Jesus) but only the Father, than WHY even TRY to keep sniffing out the time of the end? It's a complete waste of time!!
@earnestlyseeking My bro in law was in bethel at this time..and he said that 75 was NOT a big issue..it wasn't even much oif a topic of conversation. But, outside of bethel, some ran with the thought that the 1000 year reign would begin in 75. Being wrong is not a sin, being wrong and not repentent IS a sin. Those who chose to sell things to pioneer made a choice. Were they harmed? Possibly..but, paul gave up all his education to preach. So..be humble..accept that a decision was made..
@brofun Yes Paul did give up his former life, but it wasn't because someone set a date for him that later on turned out to be insignificant. If the date setting of Harold Camping was wrong, then so to is the many dates that the organization has set. The problem with both groups is that they are teachings the doctrines and interpretations of men abd straying away from the word of God.
@earnestlyseeking that's right..paul gave those things up for life! But, the ones who thought they would see the end made a decision to use the time they thought was left to do full time service. A bad decision? Could be! But, there was nothing definitive stated in the WT that said the end would come. But, there was speculation. As russell stated in the watchtower, sometimes the lord allows us to be wrong to test us. And that IS a test. JWs do not teach doctrines of men.
@brofun JW's don't teach doctrines of MEN, REALLY? I'd say the Generation of 1914 would be an absolute donctrine of a MAN, namely CT Russell, one that he borrowed from the Millerites and Adventists, threw in some whacked out Pyramidology, and viola!! 1914 Generational Doctrine created!! Are you blind, AND stupid?
@1vw4me I disagree of course. The teaching is based on the bible. The year is biblical. And, I believe that is the year christ took his throne and the last days began, along with Christ's presence in kingly power. As for the word generation, we may have been wrong...the word IS used in more than one way. As for the pyrimid..it's not pyramidology..russell was wrong. We are all human, and we all make mistakes. What are you doing for Jehovah? What truths do you teach?
@earnestlyseeking And we certainly do not stay away from the word of God. In fact, we study the bible more than most religions. A catholic magazine once stated that the average witness learns more about the bible in a year than the average catholic in a lifetime. As for dates, the bible DOES point to dates. However, we don't know the day or hour when the end will come, but we do know the times we are living in. Jesus gave us the signs to know.
@brofun Please refer to the Kingdom Ministry of 1969, where the WT openly PRAISES AND ENCOURAGES those people who are selling their homes and using the last remaining days to preach. You are so full of crap that you can't even smell what you are shoveling.
@TinaFan18 Boy you Jws shouldn't even be on the internet? Cause us "apostates" will turn you against Jehovah right? Your on your first step to "apostasy" are you not by watching videos like this. Doesn't the watchtower society teach that its wrong to watch "apostate" videos seems your nothing but a pharisee! This is weak calling people "apostate" .
@liam8911 why is it weak? the word apostate means one who leaves..and in this situation, it is one who leaves the truth. An apostate is an apostate. Sometimes isreal became apostate by teaching things that were not truth, or going to worship other Gods. The bible fortold the great apostasy..and why did God allow it?..because people excchanged the truth for the lie because they did not love the truth'. It's not weak..it's calllng it what it is.
.Do most people really care what is the Truth? Makes you wonder...Why? Just look at all the different denominations of all the so called Designer Christian religions in the world. alone ,99 % of them will Twist the Bible and tell you what you want to hear to make you feel at home and get your money! Never mind all the warnings Jesus and all the apostles gave us in the Bible to watch out for satans tricks, Did Jesus he teach LOVE OR HATE?? Matthew 7:21 Jesus here is speaking to the 99% READ IT
i think it is interesting that we accept einstien as brilliant but he thought the milky way galaxy was all there was to the universe. was he brilliant or an idiot or was he misleading people or are people blind for listening to him and trying to improve our understanding based on his work. the bible is the truth to JW and we could care less how many people may fall short in teaching us because they led us to Christ and his father Jehovah and taught us how to disregard their error.
i think it is interesting that we accept einstien as brilliant but he thought the milky way galaxy was all there was to the universe. was he brilliant or an idiot or was he misleading people or are people blind for listening to him and trying to improve our understanding based on his work. the bible is the truth to JW and we could care less how many people other than Jesus our Lord and Saviour that may fall short in teaching us because they led us to Christ and his father Jehovah
Interesting, too, is how he plays a game with the audience, by not mentioning what all JWs have been told, 'that the end is coming in Autumn 1975'. What a farce these leaders are... they should be ashamed of themselves. Unfortunately, it hard to do that in the grave, where all of the original Governing Body members are - never having seen the end in their lifetime (as they have taught and preached about for many decades!).
Amazing evidence that this cult is run by men only. God's Holy Spirit could NOT be so wrong and so often as is the case with the entire history of the WTS/Jehovah's Witnesses. What a shame that they have mislead so many good people. You would think true humility would cause the leaders to admit that they aren't who they profess to be, "the faithful and discreet slave" and the "only earthly organization of God". Before you come to their defense, let them answer for themselves on YouTube.
Pastor Russell taught the full complete absolute Truth.He was the Parousia God appointed Messenger. Judge Rutherford fell away from the Lord's Truth into a booze bottle in the 1920's when well over 2/3 of The Bible Students some 75,000 of consecrated Friends left the dead Ichabod Apostate Society. They have been in great darkness ever since.
if you listen to the speech Fred Franz says at approximately the 8:00 minute mark that the year 1975 is CRITICAL! but then goes on to say the next critical year is "1000 years later, in the year 2075"
Deut. 18:21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’
Full full explanation of the significance of this date see my forum - just follow the link on my CHANNEL and then go to the section 'defending the truth'
"** In agreement with a brother on YouTube I am going to quote him "I urge all friends to take the extra step of making comments only display after approval to avoid apostate and opposers from freely publishing their opinions on our videos. Friends on my list can post comments freely, and only friends can post comments on my channel itself. " VERY goog advise."
>>>
Hypocrite, you post freely here but yet have not accepted my friend invite.
@middleman777 not at all - if you also want to limit the comments on your videos you are welcome to do so. You may disable comments on your video any time you want.
Feel free to consult my WEBSITE/FORUM FOR ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ===>>> please click on the link on MY CHANNEL
(middleman you are free to disable the comments or remove my post as indeed I suggested my bothers do - keep the comments you approve and remove those you find disagreeable - same rule for them and you)
(2 Cor 11:13-15) "These people are False Apostles. They are deceitful workers who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ. But I am not surprised! Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder that his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. In the end they will get the punishment their wicked deeds deserve. > TRAGIC. Coz most JWs are decent people. They're just brainwashed and deceived by the satanic WTS. But that won't be an excuse face to Face.
Jehovah has given me the answers. And I am not worthy. Nor do I want the burden of being tortured by people for finding these answers or knowing them. Yes it could make me suicidal to get away from all you people.
There is nothing of ancient Genesis that doesnt have a true biblical answer that fits true science without the exaggerations of Creationism. Both Creationism and Evolution are two pagan schools opposite as if one for God and one against God, but both being lies they both are smitten by God, and soon.
His death Dec 24 of 2021 BC becomes the Mayan new year Pop 0 (in 1313 BC), its Pop 1 of 1313 BC on July 1 is 17 days before July 18 Tot 1 of Egypt; (Phoph = Thoth); just as Dec 25 Pop 1 in 2021 BC is 17 days before Thoth 1 on Jan 10 of 2020 BC.
what he and they knew in 1975 is not what I knew and found in 1983. Now in 2008-2009, I even have the various conversions of the 365-day calendar so that I know when Noah died on our Julian Dec 24 of 2021 BC. He was not yet 955 in 360-day calendar and not yet 950 in 365-day calendar. New year 365-day calendar (1-01-350) is 2020 BC July 14; and new year in 360-day calendar (1-01-955) is 2020 BC Sep 4.
The video says where does this number come from AFTER he said where id does. Six days of 7000 years are 42,000 years until man came on the scene. He does not say man came on the scene 42,000 yrs ago; he says 42,000 yrs until man came on the scene (46,025-4025 BC).
yes, I see what you're saying but he talks with all certainty that each day was a 7000 year period, that being multiplied by 6 to get 42,000 years. This is mere conjecture as those could have been 7 literal days (24 hour days) or just periods of time between "days". He got so many things wrong, so why would I put faith in this rendering in Genesis?
42,000 years... 6 Creative Days x 7,000 years per day = 42,000 years... Good ol' Fred Franz was a bit discombobulated - page 35 of 'the red book' says "2975", but Freddie says, "2,075" [!!!!!] and refers to 100 years as 1,000 years!!!! Soooo typical of the Watchtower Society's Gov.Bod's muddled thinking, and the slavering, unquestioning obedience of their brainwashed followers... Mr. Dart, the religious editor, must have been so impressed with the Jehovah's Witlesses' command of numbers...
What's the matter, kingatoro??? Apostate got your tongue??? Which, by the way, if you're a "good little" Jehovah's Witless, you absolutely are committing a SIN by being on YouTube!! That's called "seeking out 'WORLDLY' associations" by the Watchtower Society, and could lead to your disfellowshipment!!
Theres no rule stopping me going on youtube . I have had a measure of success on this site in spreading the truth and smashing false religion to pieces , even helped one person look into our religion a bit deeper all the tie i'm having success i will stay here .
Sooo, you're not a Jehovah's Witless... Why ARE you puttering around in YouTube sites dedicated to exposing the illogic and hypocrisy of the Watchtower Society???
Well, on one hand he is making statements about 75, then saying in effect You know what IT COULD MEAN, but we might be wrong so I cant really say THAT.sooooo.....the problem lies in the fact that a lot of stuff was said in other places, and during TALKS that its more of a sure thing than a miss. IF A LOT OF PPL DIDNT GET HURT OVER THIS then it would of been ok since they were keeping on the watch BUT lots and lots of JWs quit cuz they felt stupid or silly staying in this religious group
Does this guy smoke crack before he comes up with all these numbers? This is nonsensical gibberish. What was the significance of 1975 and what was the point of him highlighting that year?
Freddie Franz came up with 1975 as a means to try and whip the rank and file into believing that Armageddon was coming that year. Witnesses sold their homes, businesses, etc. and spent what they believed to be, the "short" amount of time left preaching this crap to people.
Hey Kingart.....If you listening to it again . Freddy is not outright saying that armageddon will arrive ......but he is implying that it is coming to the audience. Even his sarcastic remarks regarding the LA times article he makes is proof of that he knows what he is saying to the members in the audience and they know exactly what he means. But he wont outright say it.
kingartoro..Why was 1975 a Critical Year? What was the purpose of this talk, if not to lead people to believe the end was on their doorstep? Was it just a talk to fill the space of an hour, to teach a little bit of science and history of the earth, nothing more? Why were there implied meanings, and underlying tones set forth in this talk, if not to make people BELIEVE the end would be that year?
"Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of Gods rest day come to an end? The year 1975. It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end". Awake! 1966 October 8 pp.19-20
"The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last days" will undergo fulfillment." Watchtower 1968 May 1 p.272
"The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the "last days" have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God." Awake! 1968 October 8 p.13
"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)
"...within our twentieth century ...will begin"
"No one knows about that day or hour", Matt 24:36.
There are numerous quotes from the Watchtower organization, that true Never outright stated the end would occur in 1975, but to say that it was not implied would be a lie. That would be like a Doctor telling a couple in about 9 months or so you may want to buy a crib an some diapers but never actually say they are expecting a baby, and in nine months the couple doesn't have a baby and then they go back to the doctor and he says, well I never Actually said you were pregnant. That's asinine!
Are you really this stupid kingartoro? Listen to Freddie's own voice. He most certainly DID say Armageddon was coming in '75. I clearly remember it and so do tens of thousands of others. I think it's sad and pathetic that Witnesses like yourself deny the obvious even when it's right in front of your face.
He said nothing of the sort in this speech , what i heard from this speech was 1975 was the end of 6000 years of mans existence.
A true statement , i stand to be corrected if you heard him say armaggedon was in 1975 can you point me to the minute and second so i can listen again?
Try listening to the speech WITH AN OPEN MIND. At 3:17, he states that '..it is only logical that before the 7th Creative Day terminates, that this thousand years of the reign of Jesus Christ....should be realized...it should....be the FINAL 1000 within that 7th Creative Day of Jehovah.' Since Franz claims that 6,000 years ended in 1975, and since he claims that the 1,000 year reign of Christ is the last part of the 7,000 year period, then you get the idea that the Big A was coming in 1975.
I checked again twice just to make sure i hadn't missed it and i still can't hear from this speech where he says Armaggedon or the end is coming in 1975.
So once again if you want to point me to the minute and the second, i'l accept it
I think it's hilarious how Witnesses like you totally ignore the obvious. Because you have no rebuttal for Franz's false prophecies, you pretend that he never promoted the idea that 1975 would see Armageddon. You completely ignore every embarrassing thing he said & try claiming 'Well I didn't hear this exact phrase so therefore nothing was really said.' Give your head a shake. Many of clearly remember the hype in the pre-1975 years. The WTS is a false prophet---that's what you can't handle.
Firstly i never heard him say Armaggedon was coming in 1975 from that tape , i believe he said it COULD in other speeches i have heard.
Secondly Fred Franz or none of the Governing body have ever claimed the gift of prophesy , what they have always maintained is these are not prophecies they are there surmises from scripture.
What i find hilarious is how people like you accuse them of being false prophets to cover up for the fact you where in the truth for selfish reasons
Tell you what kingartoro....when I get home tonight, I'll give you some quotes from the Watchtower where they indeed claim to be prophets. You can look them up yourself just so you know I'm not lying. And since you're so dogmatic that you "never heard him say Armageddon was coming in 1975", let me ask you: Can you show me the quote in the bible where it says Jesus would return in 1914?
As do I. JW's like yourself cannot see the truth about "The Truth", even when it's right in front of you. The WTS has made numerous false prophecies over the years, yet because you're in a cult, you absolutely refuse to measure them by the same yardstick that they measure every other religion. Instead, you follow them blindly. If they said the sky was orange, you'd believe it and defend it to death. Until they changed their minds of course. Then you get collective amnesia.
Before you start quoting me some things , that you think i've not already seen , I suggest you do some homework as to what being a prophet means and what a prophet does.
Also i would like you to show me where in the Bible it was prophesied the exact year the messiah would come , cause the Jews where certainly expecting him at a certain time .
The question is why where the Jews in expectation of the Messiah at a certain time , when there is no exact year given in the Bible?
I asked you first: Since you refuse to acknowledge the OBVIOUS fact that Franz indeed told the rank & file that Armageddon was coming in '75 because he did not utter the exact phrase, I'm asking you to apply the same criteria to 1914. Where does the bible state that Jesus was going to return in 1914? You can't have it both ways. You accept 1914 as the date of his return even though the phrase isn't mentioned in the bible. So why do you refuse to do the same for Franz & 1975?
"We are not saying armaggedon is coming in 1975 and don't you say so either"
Regarding 1914 its quite obvious we are living in the time of the end that the Bible prophecied about and have been since 1914 , you can't see it because you are spiritually blind thats your problem
Oh dear. This is such a typical response. You have no rebuttal to my request so you simply try and switch tactics and assume we're living in the time of the end.
I ask you again: Since you refuse to acknowledge that Freddie Franz said The End was coming in 1975 because you didn't hear him utter the exact phrase, then please use the same reasoning and point me to the phrase in the bible that states Jesus would return in 1914.
Regarding 1975 , what fred franz stated in all the research i have done (i can provide the quotes if necessary) was that 1975 was the end of 6000 years of mans existence according to best Bible chronology this is a true statement.
In summary .
The coming of the messiah
The invisible presence of Jesus
The end of 6000 years of mans existence
All 3 worked out from Bible chronolgy , all correct.
And why did Freddie Franz put so much emphasis on the end of 6,000 years of man's existence ending in 1975? Because he taught that the thousand year reign would begin then. That is a fact. He states it in the above mentioned speech as well as through countless quotes in the WT literature.
You're playing a game of word semantics kingartoro. Unfortunately, you're too blind to see the obvious as you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge what they said. Typical cult mentality.
If it "makes no difference to you", then that's a shame. The Society tells you to "make sure of all things"---something you obviously have no intention of doing. And please don't start with the "I have made sure", because you're not allowed to look at anything they've said from an objective point of view. You are forced to accept whatever they say is right end of story.
Yet at the same time, you go out and tell people of other religions to closely examine THEIR religion. Double standards?
Not really what your suggesting is that Jws blindly follow .
This is what really happens the faithful slave say this is what we believe to be the case and this is why we believe it to be the case , then the person goes oh thats interesting lets have a look at the evidence to see if it makes sense, then you look and it makes perfect sense .
Its called having spiritual insight Dan 12:10 , which is why you cant understand.
Another typical response is the whining "well they're imperfect and make mistakes!" Sorry, that doesn't wash when it comes to prophecying falsely which is exactly what Franz did.
The very fact that you say "even if he did it makes no difference to me" shows how totally brainwashed JW's are. If it wouldn't "bother" you that a man who claims to speak for God made false predictions, then you clearly are putting man's words above God's.
It truly boggles the mind how you refuse to see the obvious. Fredrick Franz DID promote the false doctrine that The End was coming in 1975. This isn't the first time---the Society has a long list of failed prophecies. I noticed that you could offer no rebuttal for the quotes I gave you from the horse's mouth where they most certainly DID claim to be "prophets". I guess that's because deep down you know you have no rebuttal for it.
A "divine message" means you are proclaiming a message from God--end of story. The Society proclaimed for decades that the Creator promised them that this System would be gone before the generation of 1914 died out. As I clearly showed you, the Creator made no such promise. It was a false prophecy made by men claiming to speak in God's name.
"If we had said "This is what Jehovah has said i promise so and so" you would have a point , but we didn't."
Holy crap. Are you really this dense? Look at what the Awake! mast said:
Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the CREATOR'S PROMISE of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.
They specifically stated that JEHOVAH promised this!! Which part of that don't you get?? Is English you second language?? Good lord....
We are positive in our proclamations , this is nothing new so aree lawyers stating there beliefs in a case as facts or Doctors are positive in there diagnosis , doesn't mean there infallible and always correct, the principle is the same
That's the whole thing though: I do NOT just blindly "accept these things". Not without proof.
JW's speak out both sides of their mouths. They most certainly DO claim to be prophets, as I've shown you quotes from their own literature where they make this claim. If JW's are not 'infallible', then why should anyone be forced to believe anything they say? Why would God reveal something through a group of men who have never gotten one, single prophecy right?
1. You refuse to acknowledge that F. Franz claimed The End was coming in 1975 because he did not utter the phrase: "The End is coming in 1975".
2. You blindly accept that Jesus returned in 1914 even though there is no phrase in the bible that states this.
3. You claim it would "make no difference" to you if F. Franz made false predictions---something that goes directly against what the bible says we SHOULD do.
4. You can offer no excuse for any of the quotes I provided.
When you read expressions such as we are not infallible or the light gets brighter why do you expect to go for 100 odd years without any changes or mistakes?
I knew you'd try and pawn this off. Try reading the verses in Prov 4:14-19 so u can see what the context is around this scripture. It's clearly talking about the 2 paths a person can take in life: either the path of a righteous man or that of a wicked man. If someone persists in doing bad' the path they follow in life will indeed be like the gloom, full of darkness, with no joy. The person who is righteous will (obviously) do better. It has NOTHING to do with interpreting scriptures.
The WTS has indeed claimed that they are God's 'prophet'. I've shown you the links to the literature proving this. I have also shown you that they have made predictions in GOD'S name--predictions that did not come true. By their own yardstick they fulfilled the definition of what a false prophet is.
Freddie Franz was responsible for whipping the R&F into believing that The End was coming in 1975. It didn't.
"...never have we made a prediction in Gods name.."
And once again I will show you that you most certainly did:
this magazine builds confidence in the CREATOR'S PROMISE of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.
How many more times do I have to keep repeating this before it sinks in?
Oh dear god in heaven. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard a Witness say and it just shows the depth of your blindness.
Say I own a company. U walk in off the street and tell my employees that I hired you as the new President. No one is allowed to question you on this or on anything else. U tell them that I promise them an extra 2 weeks vacation when in fact, I never said anything of the kind. Now, are you really trying to say that you weren't falsely speaking in my name?
It is the EXACT same scenario. One person making false claims stating that someone else had "promised" something when they never did.
Please don't try and pawn that "we are not inspired" off, because if you're not "inspired", if you do not have "the gift of prophecy", then you have no business demanding unquestioning obedience by 6.5 million people, knowing full well that what passes as "present truth" today will become "past lies" tomorrow.
No its not the same did you see my answer nowhere in your scenario did the members of your company know that the so called president was making a calculated / educated guess as to the Holiday pay.
Exactly my point. The so-called 'president' was nothing but a scam artist. He made false claims IN MY NAME. No one was allowed to question him though or they could be fired.
This is no different that the Governing Body claiming that they and they alone are the "Slave Class". No one is allowed to question them, lest you get yourself disfellowshipped. They've made FALSE CLAIMS in God's name.
It IS the same thing. You simply refuse to see the obvious.
So why is it then that you pick that in black and white to try and prove that they prophesied in Gods name , but you ignore the quotes in black and white that categorically prove that, that is not what they did at all?
What? Your statement doesn't even make sense. Kingartoro, I have proven to you over and over and over again that the WTS has been guilty of false prophecying. But because you do not want to believe that, you have come up with the most ridiculous, pathetic excuses I've ever seen.
You have absolutely no rebuttal for anything I've shown you. Instead, you grasp at straw men arguments in a desperate attempt to deflect the evidence I've presented you with.
I've shown you clearly our position from the start quotes such as
" We do not have the gift of prophecy"
" These are merely our surmises"
These quotes are the basis to work from.
So when you see positive proclamations such as the creators promise what are they prophecies ( No we don't have that gift) Surmises perhaps ( Yes thats correct)
Thats the whole point, just because a proclamation is positive doesn't make it correct.
That is the stupidest, most lame-brained excuse I've ever heard. I have shown you quotes where they indeed claim to be prophets. The fact that you continue to ignore them shows the depth of your deception & the length you'll go to to promote the lies of the WTS. Show me where they claimed that the Creator's promise was merely "a surmise". You can't, because they didn't.
And I'm still waiting for you to show me where Moses gave a false prediction. You can't? What a surprise!
I grow bored in trying to reason with you kingartoro. Clearly your brain cannot handle the evidence I've provided you with which proves that both Franz and the WTS as a whole are false prophets. You just go right on hanging on every false word which they continue to spew. Keep on waiting for the "New System" which has been "right around the corner" for 140 year now.
Hey---I figure with all the time you've put in on here, you can count on your Field Serve-Us Report!
No, I've presented you with plenty of evidence. You just don't want to see it. Meh, it's your perrogative. You want to spend the rest of your days believing their crap, knock yourself out. I found your lame excuse for what they were stupid enough to write in the Awake! magazine, absolutely laughable. Even though it's written there in black and white for all to see, you feebly try claiming "uh, uh, uh, well we only surmized it."
Duuuuuuuh......Where did they say it was only a "surmise"?
No need to feel sorry for me. I'm only sorry that I wasted so many years inside that cult. Ah but you go right on believing that they're not false prophets and that ol' Freddie Franz never claimed that The End was coming in '75. Hey---if they tell you in next weeks' Watchtower study that the sky is orange with green polka dots on it, make sure you don't question it---otherwise you'll be disfellowshipped and Jehovah will murder you at Armageddon. Which is reeeeeeeally, really close now!
Whats really laughable is the fact that you handpick quotes saying "its there in black and white" as evidence , yet you ignore the other quotes in black and white that prove you wrong .
Whats really sad is
Firstly your so spiritually blind you don't even realize that your argument is full of holes and has been destroyed on here.
Secondly your so spiritually blind you can't see Bible prophecy being fulfilled right in front of your eyes, so much so you mock it.
What you do that is also laughable is make the suggestion that Jws blindly follow "if they tell you the sky is orange with green polka dots dont question it"
Thats not how it works and you know it when they show you something they present Biblical evidence to go with it then the individual can check it out for themselves.
Your mind has been poisoned by the apostate material you feast on ,that along with spiritual blindness is preventing you from thinking, debating and reasoning properly
That is EXACTLY how it works. Tell me something: If they can "present Biblical evidence" for their bizarre doctrines, they why are they constantly changing them? If their "biblical evidence" that the generation of 1914 was the generation that would live to see The End, then why did they have to change it? Don't give me that crap about "new light" either. There is NOTHING in the bible that teaches something called "present truths" which quickly become "past lies" when they're exposed.
No, my mind has not "been poisoned". That's the sorry excuse that die-hard Dubs like yourself always use when you have no rebuttal for anything that's presented. I know, because I was the same way at one time. I was 100% convinced that I had "the Truth" & as a JW I was trained to believe that no matter what anyone else presented I had to believe the Governing Body was right even when they were wrong.
Ever see George Orwell's "1984"? Try reading it, but be careful. Big Brother is watching.
kingartoro, you have perfectly displayed cognitive dissonance which is so prevalent amongst people in high control groups. JW's aren't the only ones. Scientology, the Mormons, Worldwide Church of God, Islam---the members cannot think outside of what they've been told to. Your double standards regarding the "proof" you require for the "1975" fiasco, is quickly forgotten when I ask you to apply the same criteria to the "1914" doctrine.
And if they can "present biblical evidence", then tell me: Why have their doctrines changed as MANY AS 8 TIMES? Need an example? Here's their theory on Sodom & Gomorrah: * 1879 - Will be resurrected * 1955 - Will not be resurrected * 1965 - Will be resurrected * 1967 - Will not be resurrected * 1974 - Will be resurrected * 1988 - Will not be resurrected * 1988 - Will be resurrected * 1989 - Will not be resurrected
Firstly to refute my argument ,You have to provide a quote from our literature that changes our position from " We do not have the gift of prophecy" " We are not infallible" and "these are our surmises from scripture"
too
"we now have the gift of prophecy",
"we are infallible" and
"these are not surmises but are 100% accurate and not subject to any changes"
This is the only way you can refute my argument, so provide these quotes.
The WTS likes to speak of both sides of it's mouth. I've already provided you with quotes from their own literature where they indeed claim to be prophets. A prophet does what? They PROPHESY. Just as a fisherman fishes, a semstress sews and as a farmer plows. The difference with a TRUE prophet is that they get their prophecies from God. There is not one single case in the bible where a true prophet got a prediction wrong.
responding to the 42000 year...he was saying that man was 42000 in the making from the begining of creaiton..6 creative days..-= 42,000 years.
brofun 7 months ago
@brofun >"responding to the 42000 year...he was saying that man was 42000 in the making from the begining of creaiton..6 creative days..-= 42,000 years"
Freddy said: 1day is 1,000yrs for each day.
Note:
man was created on the 6th creative day (Gen1:26-31); 1day before 7th day sabbath rest (Gen2:1-4; Ex20:8-11). Freddy acknowledged that. So Freddy's figure through his own calculations of 1day being 1,000yrs, still does not work out to be 42,000 years passing before God created man. Do the math.
barbsinclair 7 months ago
@brofun
This speech by Freddy was given in 1971. And in WT 2/15/1970 pg119, we read:
"There is nothing in the Genesis account, then, to contradict the scientific conclusions of modern scientists that the material universe, including the earth, may be many thousands of millions of years old."
So here we see one year later, Freddy is teaching in opposition to Jehovah's organization!
I tell ya brofun, they're all liars at Watchtower Headquarters, they can't keep their lying stories straight.
barbsinclair 7 months ago
@barbsinclair barbs..don't really know what you are talking about. ARe you saying that the WT taught the earth was only six thousand years old at one time?
brofun 7 months ago
@brofun >"ARe you saying that the WT taught the earth was only six thousand years old at one time?"
Not me.
Its what Freddy Franz said in 1971. He says when God began creating for purpose of making, only 42,000 creative time years passed THAN God created man on 6th day, and by 1975 ONLY 6,000 years human history passed. You do the math!
BUT "Jehovah's organization" says "that the material universe, including the earth, may be MANY THOUSANDS OF MILLIONS OF YEARS OLD" WT 2/15/1970 page119
LOL
barbsinclair 7 months ago
This has been flagged as spam show
@brofun
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."
Did God lie to us? In the beginning DID God create the heaven and the earth or not?
barbsinclair 7 months ago
JW's use the word apostate like whites used "japs" in WW2. Turn your enemy into a monster. You ever try to wake someone up? Especially when they are dreaming of a Paradise? Oh how they swing and bite hah hah
damightyom 8 months ago
It appears that TF18 is rather close minded and not really looking for truth. Because, she ALREADY DECIDED that whatever I would quote from the Watchtower, would be a misquote before I even presented the publication! Sad...
middleman777 8 months ago
@middleman777 Truly, the TRUTH isn't their strong point, is it? The Boreans would weap upon seeing how the JW mind works.....
1vw4me 7 months ago
I'm through speaking here, all the apostates please come back to Jehovah.
TinaFan18 8 months ago
@TinaFan18 everyone is an apostate..Certainly most JW are because most of them - including Rutherford, Russell where of other religions they spoke against later - no different..
rhdtv2002 8 months ago
@TinaFan18>"apostates please come back to Jehovah"
Jehovah knows all who think coming back to an organization is coming back to HIM, are idolaters. For God has said:
"I WILL DWELL IN THEM, and WALK IN THEM; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty." 2Co6:17-18
barbsinclair 7 months ago
@TinaFan18 That's just it. Many of us so called apostates have only been called so, because we chose to follow Jehovah and Jesus and NOT the WTS. Many of us don't need to "come back to Jehovah" we never left HIM, we left the men who claim things in His name that don't come true Deut 18:21-22, we left those who changed the words of the bible, Rev 22:18-19, and many other references in the bible that make clear false prophets. I personally chose God over the WTS, just as God said to.
Danmera 7 months ago
Keep searching middleman777 you will never find, unless you misquote and distort the facts.
TinaFan18 8 months ago
@TinaFan18
What am I misquoting? All I was gonna show you is the GB praising its members for selling their houses/possessions pre 1975, then them condemning them post 1975 for doing such things. No misquoting needed.
middleman777 8 months ago
@TinaFan18 It's pretty hard to "mishear" ol' Freddy Franz spouting out his convoluted date setting in this stalk from pre-1975. Are you deaf?
1vw4me 7 months ago
@TinaFan18 And he does it so well. Satan was also good in distorting the facts........
chilecheesedogg 7 months ago
Brother Franz is very limpid in this video and his words can easily be distorted and perverted by biased upset Apostates and religious haters of JW's. All please come to Jehovah and be saved, please do not act as those of Noah's Day and the Religious Pharisees.
TinaFan18 8 months ago
there was a question at the beginning.Who will conquer in the 1970's ? So what was the answer to that question ?
ironjohnlad 8 months ago
false prophet
archeng123 8 months ago
Fred and Harold camping were a lot alike.
earnestlyseeking 8 months ago
All of you Apostates are really sick, no where in this video does Brother Franz say that 1975 is the End of the World, he says that 'something is in the air' he never told you what he was thinking, so why try to say what you think he was saying in his mind. Some assuming, that is apostates problem, they assume too much.
TinaFan18 8 months ago
@TinaFan18 Why did 1975 need to be emphasized at all? and why don't we still hear about it if it was such a significant date? The facts are that every JW was expected to believe that the end was coming in 1975. I know, I was there, i was suppose to graduate that year, instead I quit school 2 years early because the end was coming in 75.
earnestlyseeking 8 months ago
@earnestlyseeking You were the one too decide to leave school 2 years earlier, the Faithful Slave never told you that. The point of the Brothers pin-pointing 1975 was too follow Jesus admonishment to "Keep On the Watch" Matthew 24;42* The individual members who sold their homes, left their jobs and went beyond the direction of the Organization, all have left the truth, because instead of following Jehovah, they followed a date, which was never intended to be the "End"
TinaFan18 8 months ago
@TinaFan18 What you say is what the story is now. But what was happening at the time was quite different. The people who sold all and pioneered were praise for being faithful, now they are viewed as stupid for putting to much emphasis on a date. The bottom line is the scriptures said nothing about 1975, 1914, 1919, 1925 or any other date. The Society has lead people astray many times down thru the years.
earnestlyseeking 8 months ago
@earnestlyseeking But you fail to recognize God's word where in Daniel 12;4 where it says 'many will rove about' rove about where? in God's Word. Only JW's have recognized Jesus Christ invisible presence in 1914, you may laugh, belittle, scoff and mock us but we are the only ones Keeping on the Watch concerning Jesus presence and the End of this system of things. Quote one Watchtower publication where the Society has called its members stupid and where members praised for a date?
TinaFan18 8 months ago
@TinaFan18 LIke i said the scriptures said nothing about 1975.
earnestlyseeking 8 months ago
@earnestlyseeking Like I said Brother Franz never said the World would in 1975.
TinaFan18 8 months ago
@TinaFan18 Yeah, I know you said that, the question is why did he say anything at all about 1975, and why doesn't the organization say anything about it now if it were so important. Oh and by the way, you are talking to an apostate here, and according the the 7-15-11 Watchtower, 2nd study article, that is a big no-no. :)
earnestlyseeking 8 months ago
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@earnestlyseeking Like I said Brother Franz never said the World would end in 1975.
TinaFan18 8 months ago
@TinaFan18
"Quote one Watchtower publication where the Society has called its members stupid and where members praised for a date?"
I have some quotes for ya along those lines. I'll look for them...
middleman777 8 months ago
@earnestlyseeking apparently, you don't really research deeply, or choose to understand. We aren't perfect..never claimed to be. However, we do 'rove about' in God's word..seeking understanding of bible prophecy. The dates you mentioned ARE biblical..and the understanding of them is now complete. True, at times, our understanding of certain dates is vague, and once in a while, wrong in the assumption of what will happen. But, when wrong, we go back to the bible and seek correction.
brofun 7 months ago
@brofun If Jesus said that no one would know the day or the hour, not the angels in heaven or even Him (Jesus) but only the Father, than WHY even TRY to keep sniffing out the time of the end? It's a complete waste of time!!
1vw4me 7 months ago
@earnestlyseeking My bro in law was in bethel at this time..and he said that 75 was NOT a big issue..it wasn't even much oif a topic of conversation. But, outside of bethel, some ran with the thought that the 1000 year reign would begin in 75. Being wrong is not a sin, being wrong and not repentent IS a sin. Those who chose to sell things to pioneer made a choice. Were they harmed? Possibly..but, paul gave up all his education to preach. So..be humble..accept that a decision was made..
brofun 7 months ago
@brofun Yes Paul did give up his former life, but it wasn't because someone set a date for him that later on turned out to be insignificant. If the date setting of Harold Camping was wrong, then so to is the many dates that the organization has set. The problem with both groups is that they are teachings the doctrines and interpretations of men abd straying away from the word of God.
earnestlyseeking 7 months ago
@earnestlyseeking that's right..paul gave those things up for life! But, the ones who thought they would see the end made a decision to use the time they thought was left to do full time service. A bad decision? Could be! But, there was nothing definitive stated in the WT that said the end would come. But, there was speculation. As russell stated in the watchtower, sometimes the lord allows us to be wrong to test us. And that IS a test. JWs do not teach doctrines of men.
an
brofun 7 months ago
@brofun JW's don't teach doctrines of MEN, REALLY? I'd say the Generation of 1914 would be an absolute donctrine of a MAN, namely CT Russell, one that he borrowed from the Millerites and Adventists, threw in some whacked out Pyramidology, and viola!! 1914 Generational Doctrine created!! Are you blind, AND stupid?
1vw4me 7 months ago
@1vw4me I disagree of course. The teaching is based on the bible. The year is biblical. And, I believe that is the year christ took his throne and the last days began, along with Christ's presence in kingly power. As for the word generation, we may have been wrong...the word IS used in more than one way. As for the pyrimid..it's not pyramidology..russell was wrong. We are all human, and we all make mistakes. What are you doing for Jehovah? What truths do you teach?
brofun 7 months ago
@earnestlyseeking And we certainly do not stay away from the word of God. In fact, we study the bible more than most religions. A catholic magazine once stated that the average witness learns more about the bible in a year than the average catholic in a lifetime. As for dates, the bible DOES point to dates. However, we don't know the day or hour when the end will come, but we do know the times we are living in. Jesus gave us the signs to know.
brofun 7 months ago
@brofun Please cite YOUR and the WT source for this, because I smell Bullsh*t!
1vw4me 7 months ago
@brofun Please refer to the Kingdom Ministry of 1969, where the WT openly PRAISES AND ENCOURAGES those people who are selling their homes and using the last remaining days to preach. You are so full of crap that you can't even smell what you are shoveling.
1vw4me 7 months ago
@TinaFan18 Boy you Jws shouldn't even be on the internet? Cause us "apostates" will turn you against Jehovah right? Your on your first step to "apostasy" are you not by watching videos like this. Doesn't the watchtower society teach that its wrong to watch "apostate" videos seems your nothing but a pharisee! This is weak calling people "apostate" .
liam8911 8 months ago
@liam8911 why is it weak? the word apostate means one who leaves..and in this situation, it is one who leaves the truth. An apostate is an apostate. Sometimes isreal became apostate by teaching things that were not truth, or going to worship other Gods. The bible fortold the great apostasy..and why did God allow it?..because people excchanged the truth for the lie because they did not love the truth'. It's not weak..it's calllng it what it is.
brofun 7 months ago
.Do most people really care what is the Truth? Makes you wonder...Why? Just look at all the different denominations of all the so called Designer Christian religions in the world. alone ,99 % of them will Twist the Bible and tell you what you want to hear to make you feel at home and get your money! Never mind all the warnings Jesus and all the apostles gave us in the Bible to watch out for satans tricks, Did Jesus he teach LOVE OR HATE?? Matthew 7:21 Jesus here is speaking to the 99% READ IT
acecharlie1 9 months ago
i think it is interesting that we accept einstien as brilliant but he thought the milky way galaxy was all there was to the universe. was he brilliant or an idiot or was he misleading people or are people blind for listening to him and trying to improve our understanding based on his work. the bible is the truth to JW and we could care less how many people may fall short in teaching us because they led us to Christ and his father Jehovah and taught us how to disregard their error.
josephlombardo 9 months ago
i think it is interesting that we accept einstien as brilliant but he thought the milky way galaxy was all there was to the universe. was he brilliant or an idiot or was he misleading people or are people blind for listening to him and trying to improve our understanding based on his work. the bible is the truth to JW and we could care less how many people other than Jesus our Lord and Saviour that may fall short in teaching us because they led us to Christ and his father Jehovah
josephlombardo 9 months ago
oh and the organization never mentioned 1975 as the end of the world... it was our fault for especulating when we shouldnt have had...
melop92 9 months ago
haha he meant 4,200 lol
melop92 9 months ago
Interesting, too, is how he plays a game with the audience, by not mentioning what all JWs have been told, 'that the end is coming in Autumn 1975'. What a farce these leaders are... they should be ashamed of themselves. Unfortunately, it hard to do that in the grave, where all of the original Governing Body members are - never having seen the end in their lifetime (as they have taught and preached about for many decades!).
joepublisher1 1 year ago
Amazing evidence that this cult is run by men only. God's Holy Spirit could NOT be so wrong and so often as is the case with the entire history of the WTS/Jehovah's Witnesses. What a shame that they have mislead so many good people. You would think true humility would cause the leaders to admit that they aren't who they profess to be, "the faithful and discreet slave" and the "only earthly organization of God". Before you come to their defense, let them answer for themselves on YouTube.
joepublisher1 1 year ago
Pastor Russell taught the full complete absolute Truth.He was the Parousia God appointed Messenger. Judge Rutherford fell away from the Lord's Truth into a booze bottle in the 1920's when well over 2/3 of The Bible Students some 75,000 of consecrated Friends left the dead Ichabod Apostate Society. They have been in great darkness ever since.
blutobelushi 1 year ago
BEWARE OF GOD !
sorry spelling nistake,
BEWARE OF DOG !
IGOROZKARSKY 1 year ago
Waffle. Nonesense. Filler. Drawn out sentences. Repetition. Procrastination. Slow enunciation. Psuedo reasoning. Presumptiousness. Misplaced authourity. The ingredients of all Watchtower sermons.
jonsixtythree 1 year ago
What Fred Franz said re 1975 is still TRUE TODAY.
customanalogue 1 year ago
if you listen to the speech Fred Franz says at approximately the 8:00 minute mark that the year 1975 is CRITICAL! but then goes on to say the next critical year is "1000 years later, in the year 2075"
thats 100 years later skippy, no 1000.
What was his motivation for saying this stuff?
PottymouthHowie 1 year ago
Fear NOT!
Deut. 18:21 And in case you should say in your heart: “How shall we know the word that Jehovah has not spoken?” 22 when the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. With presumptuousness the prophet spoke it. You must not get frightened at him.’
sikovit 1 year ago
@sikovit I have spoken to Governing Body members and all of them will straight forward tell you that they are NOT prophets
swashbucklerx 1 year ago
Full full explanation of the significance of this date see my forum - just follow the link on my CHANNEL and then go to the section 'defending the truth'
sunshineuk1965 1 year ago
@sunshineuk1965
"** In agreement with a brother on YouTube I am going to quote him "I urge all friends to take the extra step of making comments only display after approval to avoid apostate and opposers from freely publishing their opinions on our videos. Friends on my list can post comments freely, and only friends can post comments on my channel itself. " VERY goog advise."
>>>
Hypocrite, you post freely here but yet have not accepted my friend invite.
middleman777 1 year ago
@middleman777 not at all - if you also want to limit the comments on your videos you are welcome to do so. You may disable comments on your video any time you want.
Feel free to consult my WEBSITE/FORUM FOR ALL JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ===>>> please click on the link on MY CHANNEL
(middleman you are free to disable the comments or remove my post as indeed I suggested my bothers do - keep the comments you approve and remove those you find disagreeable - same rule for them and you)
sunshineuk1965 1 year ago
@sunshineuk1965
Ok
middleman777 1 year ago
This has been flagged as spam show
(2 Cor 11:13-15) "These people are False Apostles. They are deceitful workers who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ. But I am not surprised! Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no wonder that his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. In the end they will get the punishment their wicked deeds deserve. > TRAGIC. Coz most JWs are decent people. They're just brainwashed and deceived by the satanic WTS. But that won't be an excuse face to Face.
DeeStinger1 1 year ago
Read the book from RAY FRANZ-thats TRUTH!!! " CRISES " OPEN MY EYES!!!
MegaAden1 1 year ago
1975 + 1,000 = 2075 ?? (@ 8:10 =))
fezik82 1 year ago
@fezik82 I saw that too......... is there something i dont understand about the math on this one?
PottymouthHowie 1 year ago
if the ressurection was not literal..then maybe the same can b said about armagedon & a lot more besides ..
harmageden 1 year ago
Jehovah has given me the answers. And I am not worthy. Nor do I want the burden of being tortured by people for finding these answers or knowing them. Yes it could make me suicidal to get away from all you people.
elijahovah 1 year ago
There is nothing of ancient Genesis that doesnt have a true biblical answer that fits true science without the exaggerations of Creationism. Both Creationism and Evolution are two pagan schools opposite as if one for God and one against God, but both being lies they both are smitten by God, and soon.
elijahovah 1 year ago
His death Dec 24 of 2021 BC becomes the Mayan new year Pop 0 (in 1313 BC), its Pop 1 of 1313 BC on July 1 is 17 days before July 18 Tot 1 of Egypt; (Phoph = Thoth); just as Dec 25 Pop 1 in 2021 BC is 17 days before Thoth 1 on Jan 10 of 2020 BC.
elijahovah 1 year ago
what he and they knew in 1975 is not what I knew and found in 1983. Now in 2008-2009, I even have the various conversions of the 365-day calendar so that I know when Noah died on our Julian Dec 24 of 2021 BC. He was not yet 955 in 360-day calendar and not yet 950 in 365-day calendar. New year 365-day calendar (1-01-350) is 2020 BC July 14; and new year in 360-day calendar (1-01-955) is 2020 BC Sep 4.
elijahovah 1 year ago
Comment removed
elijahovah 1 year ago
The video says where does this number come from AFTER he said where id does. Six days of 7000 years are 42,000 years until man came on the scene. He does not say man came on the scene 42,000 yrs ago; he says 42,000 yrs until man came on the scene (46,025-4025 BC).
elijahovah 1 year ago
@elijahovah
yes, I see what you're saying but he talks with all certainty that each day was a 7000 year period, that being multiplied by 6 to get 42,000 years. This is mere conjecture as those could have been 7 literal days (24 hour days) or just periods of time between "days". He got so many things wrong, so why would I put faith in this rendering in Genesis?
Blessings...
middleman777 1 year ago
@middleman777 yea right, "blessings"?
buktomsin 1 year ago
@buktomsin
Would you prefer cursings? LOL
middleman777 1 year ago
@middleman777 yes because thats the truth:)
buktomsin 1 year ago
@buktomsin
I'm lost, what's the truth, that you think I'd rather curse someone than bless them? Is that what you're saying? Please clarify and expound.
Thank you...
middleman777 1 year ago
@middleman777 ....WRONG....
treon123456 1 year ago
@treon123456
On?
middleman777 1 year ago
Daniel 12:4; Acts 5:42; Acts 8:25; Acts 15:16-18; Acts 18:5,6; Acts 20:20; Romans 15:5,6; 2Timothy 4:1-5 Matthew 24:14; Daniel 2:44; Acts 14:40,41;
ladivadivala 1 year ago
good luck to ALL of jehovas witness i really hope they all manage to get out of the evil minds of the mighty watchtower.
snookerjam 1 year ago
42,000 years... 6 Creative Days x 7,000 years per day = 42,000 years... Good ol' Fred Franz was a bit discombobulated - page 35 of 'the red book' says "2975", but Freddie says, "2,075" [!!!!!] and refers to 100 years as 1,000 years!!!! Soooo typical of the Watchtower Society's Gov.Bod's muddled thinking, and the slavering, unquestioning obedience of their brainwashed followers... Mr. Dart, the religious editor, must have been so impressed with the Jehovah's Witlesses' command of numbers...
WWZenaDo 2 years ago
*To say
kingartoro 2 years ago
What's the matter, kingatoro??? Apostate got your tongue??? Which, by the way, if you're a "good little" Jehovah's Witless, you absolutely are committing a SIN by being on YouTube!! That's called "seeking out 'WORLDLY' associations" by the Watchtower Society, and could lead to your disfellowshipment!!
WWZenaDo 2 years ago
Theres no rule stopping me going on youtube . I have had a measure of success on this site in spreading the truth and smashing false religion to pieces , even helped one person look into our religion a bit deeper all the tie i'm having success i will stay here .
Thanks for your concern
kingartoro 2 years ago
"Truth"?? "FAlse" religion??? What is your religion???
WWZenaDo 2 years ago
Sooo, you're not a Jehovah's Witless... Why ARE you puttering around in YouTube sites dedicated to exposing the illogic and hypocrisy of the Watchtower Society???
WWZenaDo 2 years ago
Wonder if ol' Bro Franz was talking to his "shuffling brown shoes" when he came up with 1975 as the year of "Armageddon"...
WWZenaDo 2 years ago
Good video!
Tawna54321 2 years ago
Well, on one hand he is making statements about 75, then saying in effect You know what IT COULD MEAN, but we might be wrong so I cant really say THAT.sooooo.....the problem lies in the fact that a lot of stuff was said in other places, and during TALKS that its more of a sure thing than a miss. IF A LOT OF PPL DIDNT GET HURT OVER THIS then it would of been ok since they were keeping on the watch BUT lots and lots of JWs quit cuz they felt stupid or silly staying in this religious group
joel474 2 years ago
false prophet : deut 18 , jeremiah 14
marvfay 2 years ago
Does this guy smoke crack before he comes up with all these numbers? This is nonsensical gibberish. What was the significance of 1975 and what was the point of him highlighting that year?
KurtBethel 2 years ago
Freddie Franz came up with 1975 as a means to try and whip the rank and file into believing that Armageddon was coming that year. Witnesses sold their homes, businesses, etc. and spent what they believed to be, the "short" amount of time left preaching this crap to people.
01Mary02 2 years ago
Hey Kingart.....If you listening to it again . Freddy is not outright saying that armageddon will arrive ......but he is implying that it is coming to the audience. Even his sarcastic remarks regarding the LA times article he makes is proof of that he knows what he is saying to the members in the audience and they know exactly what he means. But he wont outright say it.
dadof2lilqueens 2 years ago
Thats a classic example of what people do read things into discourses and scriptures that are not there.
He was replying to the accusation made in the LA times article that we where saying armaggedon was coming in 75 .
His remarks where refuting that allegation , all we are saying is 1975 is the end of 6000 years of mans existence .
If you want to read it any other way that is entirely your perogative .
Fact is we never stated anywhere in our literature or anywhere else 1975 was armaggedon
kingartoro 2 years ago
kingartoro..Why was 1975 a Critical Year? What was the purpose of this talk, if not to lead people to believe the end was on their doorstep? Was it just a talk to fill the space of an hour, to teach a little bit of science and history of the earth, nothing more? Why were there implied meanings, and underlying tones set forth in this talk, if not to make people BELIEVE the end would be that year?
happie2befree 2 years ago
"Does God's rest day parallel the time man has been on earth since his creation? Apparently so. In what year, then, would the first 6,000 years of man's existence and also the first 6,000 years of Gods rest day come to an end? The year 1975. It means that within a relatively few years we will witness the fulfillment of the remaining prophecies that have to do with the "time of the end". Awake! 1966 October 8 pp.19-20
happie2befree 2 years ago
"The immediate future is certain to be filled with climactic events, for this old system is nearing its complete end. Within a few years at most the final parts of Bible prophecy relative to these "last days" will undergo fulfillment." Watchtower 1968 May 1 p.272
happie2befree 2 years ago
"The fact that fifty-four years of the period called the "last days" have already gone by is highly significant. It means that only a few years, at most, remain before the corrupt system of things dominating the earth is destroyed by God." Awake! 1968 October 8 p.13
happie2befree 2 years ago
Well happie, how about this one:
"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom." (The Nations Shall Know That I Am Jehovah; 1971; 2nd ed.; p. 216)
"...within our twentieth century ...will begin"
"No one knows about that day or hour", Matt 24:36.
Deut 18:21,22.
I recently had a ferocious battle against a JW on the "Watchtower's Faulty Bible" site about this.
tommotian 1 year ago
There are numerous quotes from the Watchtower organization, that true Never outright stated the end would occur in 1975, but to say that it was not implied would be a lie. That would be like a Doctor telling a couple in about 9 months or so you may want to buy a crib an some diapers but never actually say they are expecting a baby, and in nine months the couple doesn't have a baby and then they go back to the doctor and he says, well I never Actually said you were pregnant. That's asinine!
happie2befree 2 years ago
Are you really this stupid kingartoro? Listen to Freddie's own voice. He most certainly DID say Armageddon was coming in '75. I clearly remember it and so do tens of thousands of others. I think it's sad and pathetic that Witnesses like yourself deny the obvious even when it's right in front of your face.
01Mary02 2 years ago
@01Mary02
He said nothing of the sort in this speech , what i heard from this speech was 1975 was the end of 6000 years of mans existence.
A true statement , i stand to be corrected if you heard him say armaggedon was in 1975 can you point me to the minute and second so i can listen again?
kingartoro 2 years ago
Try listening to the speech WITH AN OPEN MIND. At 3:17, he states that '..it is only logical that before the 7th Creative Day terminates, that this thousand years of the reign of Jesus Christ....should be realized...it should....be the FINAL 1000 within that 7th Creative Day of Jehovah.' Since Franz claims that 6,000 years ended in 1975, and since he claims that the 1,000 year reign of Christ is the last part of the 7,000 year period, then you get the idea that the Big A was coming in 1975.
01Mary02 2 years ago
@01Mary02
I checked again twice just to make sure i hadn't missed it and i still can't hear from this speech where he says Armaggedon or the end is coming in 1975.
So once again if you want to point me to the minute and the second, i'l accept it
kingartoro 2 years ago
I think it's hilarious how Witnesses like you totally ignore the obvious. Because you have no rebuttal for Franz's false prophecies, you pretend that he never promoted the idea that 1975 would see Armageddon. You completely ignore every embarrassing thing he said & try claiming 'Well I didn't hear this exact phrase so therefore nothing was really said.' Give your head a shake. Many of clearly remember the hype in the pre-1975 years. The WTS is a false prophet---that's what you can't handle.
01Mary02 2 years ago
@01Mary02
Firstly i never heard him say Armaggedon was coming in 1975 from that tape , i believe he said it COULD in other speeches i have heard.
Secondly Fred Franz or none of the Governing body have ever claimed the gift of prophesy , what they have always maintained is these are not prophecies they are there surmises from scripture.
What i find hilarious is how people like you accuse them of being false prophets to cover up for the fact you where in the truth for selfish reasons
kingartoro 2 years ago
Tell you what kingartoro....when I get home tonight, I'll give you some quotes from the Watchtower where they indeed claim to be prophets. You can look them up yourself just so you know I'm not lying. And since you're so dogmatic that you "never heard him say Armageddon was coming in 1975", let me ask you: Can you show me the quote in the bible where it says Jesus would return in 1914?
01Mary02 2 years ago
@01Mary02
actually i don't find it hilarious i find it sad
kingartoro 2 years ago
As do I. JW's like yourself cannot see the truth about "The Truth", even when it's right in front of you. The WTS has made numerous false prophecies over the years, yet because you're in a cult, you absolutely refuse to measure them by the same yardstick that they measure every other religion. Instead, you follow them blindly. If they said the sky was orange, you'd believe it and defend it to death. Until they changed their minds of course. Then you get collective amnesia.
01Mary02 2 years ago
@01Mary02
Before you start quoting me some things , that you think i've not already seen , I suggest you do some homework as to what being a prophet means and what a prophet does.
Also i would like you to show me where in the Bible it was prophesied the exact year the messiah would come , cause the Jews where certainly expecting him at a certain time .
The question is why where the Jews in expectation of the Messiah at a certain time , when there is no exact year given in the Bible?
kingartoro 2 years ago
I asked you first: Since you refuse to acknowledge the OBVIOUS fact that Franz indeed told the rank & file that Armageddon was coming in '75 because he did not utter the exact phrase, I'm asking you to apply the same criteria to 1914. Where does the bible state that Jesus was going to return in 1914? You can't have it both ways. You accept 1914 as the date of his return even though the phrase isn't mentioned in the bible. So why do you refuse to do the same for Franz & 1975?
How typical.
01Mary02 2 years ago
@01Mary02
Fred franz said this about 1975
"Armaggedon could come in 1975"
"Anything is possible with God"
"We are not saying armaggedon is coming in 1975 and don't you say so either"
Regarding 1914 its quite obvious we are living in the time of the end that the Bible prophecied about and have been since 1914 , you can't see it because you are spiritually blind thats your problem
kingartoro 2 years ago
Oh dear. This is such a typical response. You have no rebuttal to my request so you simply try and switch tactics and assume we're living in the time of the end.
I ask you again: Since you refuse to acknowledge that Freddie Franz said The End was coming in 1975 because you didn't hear him utter the exact phrase, then please use the same reasoning and point me to the phrase in the bible that states Jesus would return in 1914.
01Mary02 2 years ago
Regarding 1975 , what fred franz stated in all the research i have done (i can provide the quotes if necessary) was that 1975 was the end of 6000 years of mans existence according to best Bible chronology this is a true statement.
In summary .
The coming of the messiah
The invisible presence of Jesus
The end of 6000 years of mans existence
All 3 worked out from Bible chronolgy , all correct.
kingartoro 2 years ago
And why did Freddie Franz put so much emphasis on the end of 6,000 years of man's existence ending in 1975? Because he taught that the thousand year reign would begin then. That is a fact. He states it in the above mentioned speech as well as through countless quotes in the WT literature.
You're playing a game of word semantics kingartoro. Unfortunately, you're too blind to see the obvious as you stubbornly refuse to acknowledge what they said. Typical cult mentality.
01Mary02 2 years ago
No he did not and even if he did makes no difference to me .
I know he doesn't have the gift of prophecy, i know they can all make mistakes , i'm not in the truth for selfish reasons.
3 reasons why it wouldn't even bother me
kingartoro 2 years ago
If it "makes no difference to you", then that's a shame. The Society tells you to "make sure of all things"---something you obviously have no intention of doing. And please don't start with the "I have made sure", because you're not allowed to look at anything they've said from an objective point of view. You are forced to accept whatever they say is right end of story.
Yet at the same time, you go out and tell people of other religions to closely examine THEIR religion. Double standards?
01Mary02 2 years ago
Not really what your suggesting is that Jws blindly follow .
This is what really happens the faithful slave say this is what we believe to be the case and this is why we believe it to be the case , then the person goes oh thats interesting lets have a look at the evidence to see if it makes sense, then you look and it makes perfect sense .
Its called having spiritual insight Dan 12:10 , which is why you cant understand.
Sounds harsh but its true.
You even argue with the Bible
kingartoro 2 years ago
Another typical response is the whining "well they're imperfect and make mistakes!" Sorry, that doesn't wash when it comes to prophecying falsely which is exactly what Franz did.
The very fact that you say "even if he did it makes no difference to me" shows how totally brainwashed JW's are. If it wouldn't "bother" you that a man who claims to speak for God made false predictions, then you clearly are putting man's words above God's.
01Mary02 2 years ago
And you continue with your lie youve seen a Bible example of a prophet not predicting the future but conveying a message and you argue .
You can't provide 1 quote where fred franz said armaggedon is coming in 1975 to back up your claims, and you expect me to blindly believe your lies
kingartoro 2 years ago
It truly boggles the mind how you refuse to see the obvious. Fredrick Franz DID promote the false doctrine that The End was coming in 1975. This isn't the first time---the Society has a long list of failed prophecies. I noticed that you could offer no rebuttal for the quotes I gave you from the horse's mouth where they most certainly DID claim to be "prophets". I guess that's because deep down you know you have no rebuttal for it.
01Mary02 2 years ago
There is a rebuttal for it that rebuttal is.
When we say we are a prophet it means we proclaim a divine message that is all .
Right from the start Brother russell said we do not have the gift of prophecy our position has never altered from that
kingartoro 2 years ago
A "divine message" means you are proclaiming a message from God--end of story. The Society proclaimed for decades that the Creator promised them that this System would be gone before the generation of 1914 died out. As I clearly showed you, the Creator made no such promise. It was a false prophecy made by men claiming to speak in God's name.
Which part of that can't you understand?
01Mary02 2 years ago
A divine message means a message from the Bible that is Gods word.
Regards the creators promise that is what we believed the creators promise to be , again from scripture.
If we had said "This is what Jehovah has said i promise so and so" you would have a point , but we didn't
kingartoro 2 years ago
"If we had said "This is what Jehovah has said i promise so and so" you would have a point , but we didn't."
Holy crap. Are you really this dense? Look at what the Awake! mast said:
Most important, this magazine builds confidence in the CREATOR'S PROMISE of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.
They specifically stated that JEHOVAH promised this!! Which part of that don't you get?? Is English you second language?? Good lord....
01Mary02 2 years ago
You have to work from the basis that
as brother russell said .
"These are our surmises"
Positive proclamatios of our beliefs including the creators promise does not change the fact it was a surmise
kingartoro 2 years ago
We are positive in our proclamations , this is nothing new so aree lawyers stating there beliefs in a case as facts or Doctors are positive in there diagnosis , doesn't mean there infallible and always correct, the principle is the same
kingartoro 2 years ago
Its not really a problem if you accept these things.
1) Jws do not have the gift of prophecy.
2) Jws do not claim infallibility.
3) Nowadays Gods mouthpiece can make mistakes.
4) If Gods going to reveal something already written in scripture he will do it through Jws first.
if you remember those 4 points its not a problem
kingartoro 2 years ago
That's the whole thing though: I do NOT just blindly "accept these things". Not without proof.
JW's speak out both sides of their mouths. They most certainly DO claim to be prophets, as I've shown you quotes from their own literature where they make this claim. If JW's are not 'infallible', then why should anyone be forced to believe anything they say? Why would God reveal something through a group of men who have never gotten one, single prophecy right?
01Mary02 2 years ago
Can you please point me to a scripture where a prophet of Jehovah's made a "mistake" and predicted something wrong?
01Mary02 2 years ago
1914 is correct thats one .
What do you expect from imperfect men not inspired like Bible writers ?
Why do you expect they can prophesy when they don't claim that gift?
kingartoro 2 years ago
To review:
1. You refuse to acknowledge that F. Franz claimed The End was coming in 1975 because he did not utter the phrase: "The End is coming in 1975".
2. You blindly accept that Jesus returned in 1914 even though there is no phrase in the bible that states this.
3. You claim it would "make no difference" to you if F. Franz made false predictions---something that goes directly against what the bible says we SHOULD do.
4. You can offer no excuse for any of the quotes I provided.
01Mary02 2 years ago
If i give you a web address will you look at it?
kingartoro 2 years ago
When you read expressions such as we are not infallible or the light gets brighter why do you expect to go for 100 odd years without any changes or mistakes?
Its not like it's unexpected
kingartoro 2 years ago
I knew you'd try and pawn this off. Try reading the verses in Prov 4:14-19 so u can see what the context is around this scripture. It's clearly talking about the 2 paths a person can take in life: either the path of a righteous man or that of a wicked man. If someone persists in doing bad' the path they follow in life will indeed be like the gloom, full of darkness, with no joy. The person who is righteous will (obviously) do better. It has NOTHING to do with interpreting scriptures.
01Mary02 2 years ago
Ok so what point are you trying to make here?
I feel we're jumping around subjects here.
kingartoro 2 years ago
The point I am making is this:
The WTS has indeed claimed that they are God's 'prophet'. I've shown you the links to the literature proving this. I have also shown you that they have made predictions in GOD'S name--predictions that did not come true. By their own yardstick they fulfilled the definition of what a false prophet is.
Freddie Franz was responsible for whipping the R&F into believing that The End was coming in 1975. It didn't.
The WTS is a false prophet. End of story.
01Mary02 2 years ago
I never denied we are a prophet we proclaim a message
I disagree never have we made a prediction in Gods name.
Ive got a link to a website on this if you want to look?
kingartoro 2 years ago
"...never have we made a prediction in Gods name.."
And once again I will show you that you most certainly did:
this magazine builds confidence in the CREATOR'S PROMISE of a peaceful and secure new world before the generation that saw the events of 1914 passes away.
How many more times do I have to keep repeating this before it sinks in?
01Mary02 2 years ago
The creators promise wasn't made in Gods name .
It was made in our name how many times do i have to say that before it sinks in
kingartoro 2 years ago
Oh dear god in heaven. That is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard a Witness say and it just shows the depth of your blindness.
Say I own a company. U walk in off the street and tell my employees that I hired you as the new President. No one is allowed to question you on this or on anything else. U tell them that I promise them an extra 2 weeks vacation when in fact, I never said anything of the kind. Now, are you really trying to say that you weren't falsely speaking in my name?
01Mary02 2 years ago
thats not really the same scenario .
Don't forget we're working from the basis that "we are not inspired" we are surmising from scripture"
kingartoro 2 years ago
It is the EXACT same scenario. One person making false claims stating that someone else had "promised" something when they never did.
Please don't try and pawn that "we are not inspired" off, because if you're not "inspired", if you do not have "the gift of prophecy", then you have no business demanding unquestioning obedience by 6.5 million people, knowing full well that what passes as "present truth" today will become "past lies" tomorrow.
01Mary02 2 years ago
No its not the same did you see my answer nowhere in your scenario did the members of your company know that the so called president was making a calculated / educated guess as to the Holiday pay.
kingartoro 2 years ago
Exactly my point. The so-called 'president' was nothing but a scam artist. He made false claims IN MY NAME. No one was allowed to question him though or they could be fired.
This is no different that the Governing Body claiming that they and they alone are the "Slave Class". No one is allowed to question them, lest you get yourself disfellowshipped. They've made FALSE CLAIMS in God's name.
It IS the same thing. You simply refuse to see the obvious.
01Mary02 2 years ago
So why is it then that you pick that in black and white to try and prove that they prophesied in Gods name , but you ignore the quotes in black and white that categorically prove that, that is not what they did at all?
kingartoro 2 years ago
What? Your statement doesn't even make sense. Kingartoro, I have proven to you over and over and over again that the WTS has been guilty of false prophecying. But because you do not want to believe that, you have come up with the most ridiculous, pathetic excuses I've ever seen.
You have absolutely no rebuttal for anything I've shown you. Instead, you grasp at straw men arguments in a desperate attempt to deflect the evidence I've presented you with.
This is cult mentality at its best.
01Mary02 2 years ago
Youve presented no evidence .
I've shown you clearly our position from the start quotes such as
" We do not have the gift of prophecy"
" These are merely our surmises"
These quotes are the basis to work from.
So when you see positive proclamations such as the creators promise what are they prophecies ( No we don't have that gift) Surmises perhaps ( Yes thats correct)
Thats the whole point, just because a proclamation is positive doesn't make it correct.
kingartoro 2 years ago
That is the stupidest, most lame-brained excuse I've ever heard. I have shown you quotes where they indeed claim to be prophets. The fact that you continue to ignore them shows the depth of your deception & the length you'll go to to promote the lies of the WTS. Show me where they claimed that the Creator's promise was merely "a surmise". You can't, because they didn't.
And I'm still waiting for you to show me where Moses gave a false prediction. You can't? What a surprise!
01Mary02 2 years ago
Seriously have you been reading my answers or are you that spiritually blind that you don't understand i've already explained this time and again.
I'm wasting my time.
Why wern't the Israelites allowed to speak against Moses? i'l leave you to think about that
kingartoro 2 years ago
So where the israelites allowed to murmur against Moses?
kingartoro 2 years ago
Please show me where Moses EVER made a false prediction.
01Mary02 2 years ago
I knew you where going to say that about Moses , thats a typical response.
Thats beside the point, they wern't not allowed to murmur against Moses because he got predictions correct.
So why wern't they allowed to murmur against Moses?
kingartoro 2 years ago
So lets see:
Moses + correct predictions = no criticism allowed.
Governing Body + false predictions = no criticism allowed.
Makes perfect sense to me!
01Mary02 2 years ago
So what your saying is that the Israelites wern't allowed to speak against Moses because he made correct predictions?
kingartoro 2 years ago
I grow bored in trying to reason with you kingartoro. Clearly your brain cannot handle the evidence I've provided you with which proves that both Franz and the WTS as a whole are false prophets. You just go right on hanging on every false word which they continue to spew. Keep on waiting for the "New System" which has been "right around the corner" for 140 year now.
Hey---I figure with all the time you've put in on here, you can count on your Field Serve-Us Report!
01Mary02 2 years ago
You've presented no evidence of your claims , just hot air and nonsense talk you picked up from apostate websites.
You can't even understand my answers showing how spiritually blind you are 2 cor 4:4 , Dan 12:10.
I think its a real shame , i feel so sorry for you particularly knowing you had the truth and then threw it all away
kingartoro 2 years ago
No, I've presented you with plenty of evidence. You just don't want to see it. Meh, it's your perrogative. You want to spend the rest of your days believing their crap, knock yourself out. I found your lame excuse for what they were stupid enough to write in the Awake! magazine, absolutely laughable. Even though it's written there in black and white for all to see, you feebly try claiming "uh, uh, uh, well we only surmized it."
Duuuuuuuh......Where did they say it was only a "surmise"?
01Mary02 2 years ago
No need to feel sorry for me. I'm only sorry that I wasted so many years inside that cult. Ah but you go right on believing that they're not false prophets and that ol' Freddie Franz never claimed that The End was coming in '75. Hey---if they tell you in next weeks' Watchtower study that the sky is orange with green polka dots on it, make sure you don't question it---otherwise you'll be disfellowshipped and Jehovah will murder you at Armageddon. Which is reeeeeeeally, really close now!
LOL!
01Mary02 2 years ago
Whats really laughable is the fact that you handpick quotes saying "its there in black and white" as evidence , yet you ignore the other quotes in black and white that prove you wrong .
Whats really sad is
Firstly your so spiritually blind you don't even realize that your argument is full of holes and has been destroyed on here.
Secondly your so spiritually blind you can't see Bible prophecy being fulfilled right in front of your eyes, so much so you mock it.
Which will be your downfall
kingartoro 2 years ago
What you do that is also laughable is make the suggestion that Jws blindly follow "if they tell you the sky is orange with green polka dots dont question it"
Thats not how it works and you know it when they show you something they present Biblical evidence to go with it then the individual can check it out for themselves.
Your mind has been poisoned by the apostate material you feast on ,that along with spiritual blindness is preventing you from thinking, debating and reasoning properly
kingartoro 2 years ago
That is EXACTLY how it works. Tell me something: If they can "present Biblical evidence" for their bizarre doctrines, they why are they constantly changing them? If their "biblical evidence" that the generation of 1914 was the generation that would live to see The End, then why did they have to change it? Don't give me that crap about "new light" either. There is NOTHING in the bible that teaches something called "present truths" which quickly become "past lies" when they're exposed.
01Mary02 2 years ago
No, my mind has not "been poisoned". That's the sorry excuse that die-hard Dubs like yourself always use when you have no rebuttal for anything that's presented. I know, because I was the same way at one time. I was 100% convinced that I had "the Truth" & as a JW I was trained to believe that no matter what anyone else presented I had to believe the Governing Body was right even when they were wrong.
Ever see George Orwell's "1984"? Try reading it, but be careful. Big Brother is watching.
01Mary02 2 years ago
kingartoro, you have perfectly displayed cognitive dissonance which is so prevalent amongst people in high control groups. JW's aren't the only ones. Scientology, the Mormons, Worldwide Church of God, Islam---the members cannot think outside of what they've been told to. Your double standards regarding the "proof" you require for the "1975" fiasco, is quickly forgotten when I ask you to apply the same criteria to the "1914" doctrine.
A fascinating example of mind control.
01Mary02 2 years ago
Secondly to suggest that the more you study something you don't learn more is ridiculous.
New light comes from daily study of the scriptures , and holy spirit and only that.
kingartoro 2 years ago
And if they can "present biblical evidence", then tell me: Why have their doctrines changed as MANY AS 8 TIMES? Need an example? Here's their theory on Sodom & Gomorrah: * 1879 - Will be resurrected * 1955 - Will not be resurrected * 1965 - Will be resurrected * 1967 - Will not be resurrected * 1974 - Will be resurrected * 1988 - Will not be resurrected * 1988 - Will be resurrected * 1989 - Will not be resurrected
"Biblical evidence?" "New Light"? Riiiiight.
01Mary02 2 years ago
Firstly to refute my argument ,You have to provide a quote from our literature that changes our position from " We do not have the gift of prophecy" " We are not infallible" and "these are our surmises from scripture"
too
"we now have the gift of prophecy",
"we are infallible" and
"these are not surmises but are 100% accurate and not subject to any changes"
This is the only way you can refute my argument, so provide these quotes.
kingartoro 2 years ago
The WTS likes to speak of both sides of it's mouth. I've already provided you with quotes from their own literature where they indeed claim to be prophets. A prophet does what? They PROPHESY. Just as a fisherman fishes, a semstress sews and as a farmer plows. The difference with a TRUE prophet is that they get their prophecies from God. There is not one single case in the bible where a true prophet got a prediction wrong.
01Mary02 2 years ago