Christopher Hitchens vs Doug Wilson on Dennis Miller [1 of 4]

[setmedic]

There's something creepy about a grown man defending his invisible friend.

[Slugg329]

Seriously, fuck dennis miller

[mrw21]

@koabarra

It's like Twitter ... when you get 144 characters or whatever it is, it's hard to make your point. I spent the better part of 8 months intently studying religion and science and all the rest of it, and I've come to the simple conclusion that you either believe or you don't. Sure, people cross over the fence in either direction, but deep down in places maybe we only share with ourselves, we know what we believe and don't believe, and with few exceptions, I don't think that changes much.

[mrw21]

Christianity simply rejects reality. Just to take one example. Men tend to lust after women. The natural explanation for this is that we are genetically prone to reproduce and our reproductive organs contain the most nerve endings of any other place in our bodies, making sex extremely pleasurable. Christianity says ... the Devil is tempting you.

[sfmike20]

Wow, Pastor Wilson really set himself up with that whole if it's not true bit. Silly Pastor, he should have known that he could not win against Hitchens.

[darwinized]

religion is simply vacuous!!

[SousSherpa]

I wasn't bringing it up so much as a prophetic prediciton of the future. I was bringing up that there are over 30 thousand denominations of christianity. There is a lot of "division" among christians as to what they think is true.

I should have made that more clear.

[SousSherpa]

Jesus does say in luke that He didn't come to the world to bring peace to the world, but division.

Whether your a believer or not, that's a prediction that did come true and is; to this very day-true.

[ashman165]

Even if true, that's hardly a revelation to announce that espousing a view contrary to the views of practically the entire known world would cause controversy.

[SousSherpa]

I'm not sure I follow you.

[ashman165]

Let's say I want to start some new "christian" religion where I claim the devil is god, god is the devil, the world was created in only an afternoon. And then to top it all off I say, "Upon receipt of this divine truth, there will be many doubters, and much turmoil dividing the community." It's hardly insightful. It's like saying, "I predict much death in this mall" right before you start shooting people in that mall. It's hardly sagacious.

[ashman165]

Another way to put it deals with children. I tell my children that while I'm not psychic, I can predict the future with a certain degree of precision. Then I predict that they'll be going to bed shortly. Low and behold, I'm right because seconds later it's their bedtime. Now, whether you believe I can predict the future or not, right there's a prediction that came true. To this very day.

In other words, you're looking at a fairly mundane observation as being the bee's knees of prophecy.

[rddaos]

@ashman165

you're hillarious

[celtlen]

Beautiful, just bootifull. God is rooting for us and he's sending help!! (4.15) Great to hear that the influence of the once omnipotent creator of the universe has been diminished to that of a cheerleader or a little old woman who notices a cat stuck up a tree. Somebody wake me up when all the religious people are gone. There limitless ignorance, solipsism and just plain weirdness is making my eyeballs itch :)

[frankm5150]

God damnit, I cant understand a thing Miller is talking about.

[BayerLexan]

Yeah, if your a total Star Trek nerd, there's an episode in TNG where they encounter a race that talks in only metaphor. Its what comes to my mind when I listen to him.

[thinkofwhy]

Existence emerges as the tensions and compressions between the two extremes, or aspects, of duality.

Belief vs knowledge

Mass vs Energy

whole vs parts

why vs how

global vs local

etc,...

These dualities, and therefore the tensions and compressions within and between them, will not go away, for if they did, nothing would exist.

So, those who condemn one aspect and praise the other are blind.

We must integrate both aspects of nature in order evolve beyond here and now.

[HastaFatum]

The theory of Evolution vs. Intelligent Design is an irreconcilable duality.

[thinkofwhy]

No, it is not.

That duality is basically evolution vs creation. And they are already integrated in nature, as are all dualities. Things are created and they evolve. The real problem with this duality is only in the human mind and it's lack of awareness.

What I should have clarified previously is that it is only within our minds that these apparent dichotomies need to be integrated. It is only our opposing perceptions that need reconciliation, not nature's dualities.

[HastaFatum]

No, maybe I should have clarified that many of those that subscribe to Creationism believe that the universe was "created" less than ten thousand years ago, that beneficial mutations cannot occur during transcription, and that speciation does not occur, period. This is irreconcilable with the most applied and trusted theory today, Evolution.

Evolution vs. Intelligent Design/CreationISM as scientific principles is irreconcilable.

[HastaFatum]

I referred / am referring to Intelligent Design or Creationism. Creation itself is a different matter entirely. The appropriate comment for that would be "Abiogenesis and Creation is an irreconcilable duality."

You've interested me, though. What triggered the idea of looking at the world as dualities?

[thinkofwhy]

Yes, their rationalizations for creation is merely puffery and is not part of the underlying duality of evolution/creation.

Which would indicate that the evolution vs creationism debates are mislabeled, and should instead be titled Rational vs

Irrational Interpretations of a Shared Reality.

I experienced an insight that revealed the Purpose & Meaning of Existence as a non-linear hyper-dimensional duality. It was triggered by an elliptical logo design (2.35:1 lens flare) that I was creating.

[emuholic]

you are talking bollocks...

[thinkofwhy]

Brilliant !! An absolutely brilliant reply !!!

You are amazing sir.

[emuholic]

what more can be said about your drivel?

[thinkofwhy]

An absolutely enlightened classification of the subject of my previous comments. You are, without a doubt, a unique intellect, sir.

[emuholic]

youre a superfluous nonsensical nincompoop, jeeves..

[richter75]

Wilson is more aligned with the general religious nutcase and as such Hitchens make the obvious stupidity clearer. Wilson is trying to make circles out of squares and its so damn clear to everyone not brainwashed!

[alphacause]

OperationMongoose, thank you for posting this radio debate of Hitchens and Wilson.

[alphacause]

Pastor Wilson's point about Hitchens being inconsistent in expecting total uniformity in religious belief and not in science seems to be missing the point. Science, by the mere fact that it is a human effort, is fraught with the imperfections of humans. Hence, there will always be disagreement. What sets religion apart is that it is SUPPOSEDLY the divine and PERFECT communication of a PERFECT God to his creation. Hence, there SHOULD NOT be a disagreement if it is the true word of a PERFECT God.

[tattypatty]

Scientists aren't condemning people to burn forever because they disagree on theory. Well put , Hitch.

[CognosSquare]

Read about DW at Pharyngula blog:

Doug Wilson has an entry at the Southern Poverty Law Center that explains that he coauthored a book, Southern Slavery As It Was, with Steven Wilkins, a neo-Confederate, that was essentially a mangling of history and theology to assert that slavery in the South wasn't so bad after all. He runs a private school in Idaho that celebrates Robert E. Lee's birthday; he wants a "cultural reformation" in America, and his model, his ideal, is the antebellum Confederacy.

[CognosSquare]

Doug cont'd:

He's a regular speaker at Christian Reconstructionist conferences sponsored by the League of the South. His ideological heroes are Robert Lewis Dabney and Rousas John Rushdoony. Here's a collection of links that point to the vileness of this sleazebag.

He doesn't confine his bigotry to other races, either. He's a wanna-be theocrat who wants to return to biblical barbarities.

He says that punishment for homosexuality is either exile or death. (EXACTLY as the bible does)

[Mike3303]

This sounds rather dubious. Do you have a reliable source? Blogs usually aren't the best place to get information from.

[CognosSquare]

I agree completely. I think that these claims would be verifiable through some research.

At a quick glance I did at least find the book through google.

The last quote about homosexuality I think would make sense without research as he is a bible-literalist and all that comes with that.

[rollsthepaul]

The primary function of religion is to supply comfort. If you believe you have got a ticket to ride to heaven, then it makes you feel very comfortable in your pew.