The Rhythms of Latin Poetry: Hexameter

[PoetryETrain]

Thank you very very much...

[Uranus123100]

Not in youtube but look in google for modern languages that use the quantitative meter

[Uranus123100]

You have to hear modern quantitative meters like the sanskrit and thai and bole

[Winge42]

@Uranus123100 Is that so? Well, is there any such poetry on Youtube that you would recommend?

[Uranus123100]

Terrible! Terrible! All your reciting is based in stressed patterns but in the quantitative meter the stress doesn't lead to the meter you should stop corrupting the ancient poetry

[fpiceail]

Optimus usus vocis!

Scansio tam dificilis est ut eam uti non possim :(

[amszuba]

Nothin to do with latin pronounciation.

[impedimentum]

Good Job! Optime, amice!

[luciano9009]

That sounded excellent man, even though I don't understand Latin.

[jmoreno718]

Thank you for that; it was very helpful; don't mind the idiots who can't appreciate what you did.

[cejasize]

no he didn't

yes he did lol

[khananel]

Its ridiculous the way Anglo scholars try to teach the world a 'contrived pronunciation'. Go to the Mediterranean and discover that vowel systems are similar in spoken romance languages and Greek. They are more likely to be closer to Latin than what some Anglo scholars have 'invented'. They're just too arrogant to admit that they're wrong, and have no natural sense of 'Latin' rhythme. Listen to Scorpius Martinus (Italian on YT) or Leni Ribeiro (Brazilian onLibrivox). The real deal.

[icantfindanamex86]

@khananel calm down buddy its just a video of some sperg speaking a dead language because its cool

[MaBu888]

@khananel

I don't think the scholars invented anything too wrong on paper. But most of them cannot indeed pronounce the vowlesand diphthongs perfectly. can muahahahhaa.

[MrKaNoodo]

Go back to school. Very bad pronunciation.

[MaBu888]

@MrKaNoodo

This pronunciation is better than yours.

[MaBu888]

@MrKaNoodo

Since you're Polish, I polish my statement a bit. Poles have a cool pronunciation always, even if they haven't put effort in detail.

[IsaF93]

my latin teacher loves you;)

[selmielmi]

Latin rocks!

[thereisnowaythishasb]

let me use my latin to say...no mames huey!

[nitterpixi]

Your accent is a little funny XD

Kinda Italian-ish...



[AddieBabyBunny]

@nitterpixi

not italian at all

[AgnesFajardy]

Pulcherrimam pronuntiationem ! Quando nobis dabis alias lectiones ?

[OliverRosierPictures]

You do not pronounce the words correctly:

You should take some more hours!

Jowever the scansion is good!

Sursum corda!

[MaBu888]

@OliverRosierPictures

He pronounces the words perfectly, in classical pronunciation. I'd like your detailed or general assessment of his pronunciation. I'm all ears, or eyes.

here's another example of similar pronunciation:

youtube dot com slash watch?v=EbhXROT9gDM&feature=re­lated

There are 10 or more ways or so, to pronounce Latin, two of them, ecclesiastical, classical, I myself have mastered almost as much as is possbile, and have come up with nearly identical results 2 them.

[MaBu888]

@OliverRosierPictures

*I mean I've come up with nearly identical pronunciations to those two guys.

SERMVNCVLIS IDEM RECTIS FAVENTEM MIHI PVTARIS SI TEMPVS FIAT EVIDENTIAMQVE AVDIRE PERRECTAM.

[MaBu888]

@OliverRosierPictures

On second thought, he's o's and e's are different from the 'norm' of restaured pronunciation, but the rest is close to perfect. DE MARMORE VVLTVS was perfect. He's fixed his o's in his other video I think. He has a cool website as well.

[tobwasted]

this is not cool

[Umja]

Thank you for sharing, it was realy helpful ^^

[TheTatzlwurm]

noch schlimmer

[Mandrin178]

o mio dio!!!

that's hard

[MRhejsan1]

Great! I have a test on this tomorrow, this really helped me out :)

[shie5175]

This is truly amazing. I am going to have to show it to my students!

[bassgituitar74]

cool socks!

[spiffysarah213]

you're awesome!

we have to do this for a latin assessment and its HARD

[dlewis91]

You're really bizarre. Do you have a girlfriend? Cause you need one prrrrrrrrrrrrrrronto.

[dlewis91]

You are beautiful.

[nimrodlevy]

Te adsimilis Phoebus canes!!!

[nimrodlevy]

Dude you are awesome! i wish i could understand latin so good, for now I dealing with cassle and lewis n short :)

[fcouperin]

declamatio pulchra, carissume. Pars scansionis sub tua figura debet fuisse ardua. Sed vocales tuae non perfectae, caue.

[gragion]

The Hexameter sounds like cumbia. Don´t kill me, just listen to the rythm of cumbia.

Just to make you believe me a little, I´m studying Licenciatura en Letras (literature and linguistics) at university.

[Partykerl]

buhhh

[giantposer]

Firstly, thank you.

Secondly, sweet socks.

[bebeDesigner]

oh my,,,,,

[Zaitsev3535]

om nom nom nom nom

[MaBu888]

Vam nado vina!

[onoaoiomo]

May someone please explain to me what a hexameter is? Ive been reading about it on wiki and i just cant seem to understand what it is. I would really appreciate it.

[potatoskins87]

A dactylic hexameter is a line of poetry. It is divided into six parts, each called a "foot". Each foot is either a dactyl or a spondee. A dactyl consists of three syllables: long, then short, then short; a spondee consists of two syllables: both long. For example, study "AR ma vi | RUM que ca | NO TRO | JAE QUI | PRI mus ab | O RIS" -- I've marked the long syllables in caps; and the foot break with the sign |.

[oginam]

OMG OMG ITS SATAN !!!

[ChameleonDave]

Haha, that was sooo nerdy! Thanks for showing your little besocked feet!

Perfect pronunciation though. Kudos!

[kaktuspanda]

How do you know the pronunciation was perfect? We can't really be sure about how Latin was pronounced 2000 years ago, can we?

[MaBu888]

Well we can be reasoably certain through the evidence of ancient roman grammarians themselves and the work of well informed historical linguists and phonologists that this video has about 97 percent correct pronunciation. I know that it is a long sentence. Only people who havent tried very hard, say what you say, kaktuspanda.

[zocurtis]

Very true.

[ericbateson]

I like your arm.

[rossbarman]

wow this is so great. however, "nota bene" find a hobby and a gf fast.

[PizzaMozarella]

I had to read a passage of the Illias like this in high school xD was so fun :p

[dru1f]

have you learned that by heart?

[MaBu888]

I believe learning the sequence of excellently reproduced sounds is very easy, especially a few lines., so yes.

[des0lar]

Holy shit. I've seen the light.

[MaBu888]

Quoqu'ego!

[2Fell]

kiitos

[Rickhard529]

That was amazing

[collardhill]

I do like the musical notation. Thanks for tat.

[Cobemindala]

salve, winge42!

tibi nonnullis diebus ante litteras conscripsi! si responeas, me valde delectet ... =)

vale

[Shinobigamer7]

"me valde delectes"

"s" not "t"

[Cobemindala]

mimime. non enim Winge ipse mihi "placeat", sed hoc, ut mihi respondeat. hoc quoque scribere poteram: "valde delecter." res tamen nulli momenti quoniam responsum numquam accepi ^^

vale.

[jerrykim2]

oh I think I'm in love!

[rhamnes87]

This approach is truly unique. Magnum est gaudium recitantem te audire!

[galen697]

As a Latin teacher (and as somebody who's musically inclined), I want to say that writing out the text and scansion as a musical score is possibly the best way I've ever seen to teach scansion and dactylic hexameter. Bravo!

[Vergilius07]

( sorry for my englisch)

The big problem with the U.S (and sometimes the U.K but not in al the parts of thenation ) the ,,R'' is to soft, Wing47 does it right ! it is an R not an ,,r''

Classic is not C as Tsj ( Cicero is not Tsjitsjero, witch is ecclesia latin) But KiKero. Further we got the,Erasmus pronouncation where the C is an S, etc etc.

sometimes the U an W, sometimes a V, or vice versa.there is alot of litterature outthere about this subjct!

[MaBu888]

I made a video in Latin too. Comment on that too LOL. I'm sure it'll be a good video.

[undercibero]

Si forte usus es, queso, quodam quod apellatur "loquendo"? In internet quaeristine illud? Ut intellegar facito.

[hobokengar]

bravo...dude, bravo.

Brilliantly done.

I love the body movements which served

to help me digest the whole.

[undercibero]

I don't like they way you pronounce latin. You get the time, but what sense does it has being exact, that could be done by a computer. You are all german or english students, you don't take the roman rhythms; the romanic languages do.

[Winge42]

Well, I agree with you; in fact, this could have been done even better by a computer. But it is my goal with this particular video: to mechanically demonstrate a rhythm-based recitation, for those that are either unfamiliar with the concept, or used to a scansion with a regular stress on the ictus. The follow up is closer to my regular pronunciation; I would appreciate it very much if you could give me some feedback on that video too. Or does your comment apply to that one as well?

[jordanbell]

what he does here could certainly not be done by a computer with today's technology.

[MaBu888]

Argubly, with a sound synthesizer, the possibility remains, of accurate pronunciation, at least. Go to poetaexmachina dott com, for example and use any Latin text, albeit the voice is androgynous and the tonality is minimal, and the nasal consonants are also neglected in this sound synthesizer.

[mayoi1960]

I saw a link to this on Textkit, and must say "Well done!"

[MaBu888]

It's good that the Spanish and Brazilian Portuguese like this recitation. Especially the nasalized um em am im, very similar to some forms of Brazilian Portuguese like the poster before me, he teaches Portuguese in his videos.

[kakosuranosx]

Your Latin is so perfect that I could think you were Roman in other life.

Too perfect!

Congrats!

Great job!

[MaBu888]

And, the final ms are like thsi: they assimilate into other cononants like m, if the next word stars with a d: circundederunt, otherwise, the final m is silent and the preceding vowel,what ever that voewl is, is nasalized. This is not completely for certain, but some people use it. It would exlain why the -om in old Latin was seldom written and almost always written as -um in the republic. Therefore, there is a possibility, that um am em im were simply nasalised vowels with a trace of an m/(n).

[MaBu888]

More precise would be that -O was used instead of OM at first, then later -VM (and -VS) became the norm, because education became a little important and formal inscriptions had to have consistent grammar and spelling, otherwise there would be difficulty to distinguish between some of the cases, as accusative would use um and written as o and so on. By the way, your Latin video is just crazy good.

[MaBu888]

In my view, prose might have been recited with a stress accent without the Greek-fans bothering, but orations in the senate must have been with a pith accent. I believe the Italian pitch accent in modern times is the testament to how some Roman CITIzens used the pitch accent or at least imitated it to a very high degree. If there hadn't been any Greek influence, the Italian language would be pronounced with a stress accent and the syllables would be different, especially the vowels.

[calgaryfox]

Well done!

[CrescentArmada]

Thanks for this video, it's great. Exactly what I was looking for.

[habesnelatinum]

I hate elisions... :(

[tromba8]

bona recitatio est hac :) congratulationes tibi mitto Hispania :) quinque stellas quoque tibi do :)

[piscadil]

Impressive indeed, my friend. Like a Roman you are.

[DavidGBrault]

Wow. I am really impressed. Now I want to try to pronounce all Latin verse as you pronounce it. The musical notes on the bottom of the screen are really helpful- and they must have taken a really long time to create. Anyway, let me say it again, I am really impressed.

[astralentity]

Unfortunately since I watch too much sci fi, classical latin sounds like alterran, which is the same language but spelled differently for the show and given it's own alphabet based on linear glyphs.

[pandemonio81]

but if you pronunce all the normal stresses and not the ictus as a stress, you sometime obtain consecutive stresses. Is not it horrible for a "classic ear"?

[Winge42]

I don't know of anyone alive with a truly "classic ear", so I can't ask. Seriously though, I don't understand why it would be horrible? If it is indeed the case that they pronounced a phrase such as "quis Gracchi..." with two consecutive stressed syllables in prose, I don't really see any major reason why they wouldn't do so in poetry as well.

[pandemonio81]

well, I don't open a book of latin prosody since I standed the examination of latin literature at the university, besides I studied modern and not classic humanities. But I remember very well not only the severe reaction of the professor if you pronunced two stresses consecutively within a hexameter, but also I remember that i read that in several texts from different scholars.

[pandemonio81]

Even in the romance literatures, for example in the italian one, the poets usually avoid putting consecutive stresses because of the reminiscence of that classic principle ("nel mèzzo del cammín di nòstra víta"): within the hendecassillable if you find two consecutive stresses , they usually are on the sixth and on the seventh syllab.

[pandemonio81]

By the way in the romance literatures it's not an unbreakable rule and there are exceptions. As I said i will do some research considering your opinions on the ictus, then i will show you also some source about this other issue of the consecutive stresses.

[pandemonio81]

of course i meant "hendecasyllable"

[Winge42]

Oh, then I see what you mean. But your professors reaction was surely founded in the assumption that the ictus should be stressed, and in that case, it would indeed be a severe error if two consecutive syllables were stressed. Similarly, modern Italian poetry is stress based, i.e. the meter regulates the alternation of stressed and unstressed syllables, as you describe. My point is that stress played no such role in classical Latin poetry, and hence no such restriction would apply.

[pandemonio81]

Yes, we know the latin poetry is based on the alternation of short and long syllable and the romance one on the alternation of tonic and atonic syllabs. But I'm also saying that in my opinion the romance poets considered the ictus stressed too, and they didn't write two consecutive stressed syllabes also because the classic poets didn't write two consecutive syllabes marked by the ictus that had the same phonetic role the stress has.

[pandemonio81]

Besides if you don't consider the ictus as a stress, what was its role for you? we needn't anything to know when a new foot begins and we needn't anything to know when a new tonic syllab appears except the sound it has.

[Winge42]

As I explained, I regard the ictus as the rhythmical beat of the verse. In a procession of dactyls, the long syllables would evoke the sense of a clear beat, or pulse. True, in a largely trocheeic hexameter, the ictus would be less well defined, but it doesn't really matter, because the concept of ictus is in fact not that central or vital to the theory of classical verse!

[polychronistheo]

don't know if the latin hexametre sounded like that, but congratulations. For my part, I prefer the italian pronunciation for Latin, & the modern Greek one for ancient Greek, which is far from incorrect

[pandemonio81]

nEXT TIME I WILL READ SOMETHING FROM cICERO, But i need a good microphone, because for Virgil I used a fucking I-pod!!

[pandemonio81]

By the way,

if I understand well your thought although my english, i'm not agree totally with your comments on this page.

I believe it's right to replace the natural accent with the ictus. What is difficult for the modern readers it's to reproduce the long and the short syllabic sounds as you said. But differently from you I believe this aspect has nothing to do with the right replecement of the accent of the word that coincides with the position of the ictus when the words become poetry.

[Winge42]

I'm not really saying that it is wrong to stress the ictus, but I don't think it was the classical method. I believe that accentuation of the ictus began in late antiquity, and then mainly as a paedagogical tool to teach the meter. No classical author mentions a different stress in poetry; on the contrary, it is said that listeners to an orator would notice if he accidentally produced a verse in his prose speech: thus, the meter would be appreciated from the lengths of the syllables alone.

[pandemonio81]

Your point is interesting. I will do some reasearch about when i will have the time.

[ath4ever]

I AM IMPRESSED!!!!

[Harmaol88]

me too

[ath4ever]

Μου θυμίζει κάποιον άλλον που μπορεί να προφέρει λατινικά πολύ καλύτερα.....

[Harmaol88]

Apelle, figlio di Apollo, fece una palla di pelle di pollo, tutti i pesci vennero a galla per vedere la palla di pelle di pollo fatta da Apelle figlio di Apollo.

[Winge42]

Sorry, my Greek isn't as good as it should be... ;-) You are reminded of someone else? Are you thinking about anyone in particular?

[ath4ever]

Yes, this is what I said. Your Greek is very good!

[Winge42]

Oh, I send all my gratitude to Babel Fish.

[ath4ever]

Anyway, you are excellent and as I said, i am impressed

[pandemonio81]

Babel Fish, ahahahahah.

Ваши носки славны

[pandemonio81]

Nice work my swedish friend!

I knew in northern Europe you are used to read the latin "C" always with the guttural pronunciation. In Italy we often read in accordance with a later pronunciation also the diphtongs. As you can see, on my work I was talking about these differences with a german guy.

[Winge42]

Thank you! Well, the traditional Swedish pronunciation of Latin has sibilant C before fronted vowels as well, but indeed the classical (restored) pronunciation is what is mainly taught in schools here nowadays.

[pandemonio81]

For us italians to use always the later pronunciation of them it's just more "comfortable" because it's identical to the italian one.