REFUTING UNIVERSALISM 02- Revelation 20:10 (Forever & Ever)

[kelleylemons]

Funny how they need to change so much in the Bible to "fit" their ideas. Words like believe, hell, saved, forever and even torment is not really torment. Yep getting closer to the one world religion...new age. Alice Bailey predicted the emergence of the universal church back in 1919. She worshipped lucifer and channeled many ascended masters. She also said there was no hell

[kelleylemons]

this is good but you left out the most important verse in Rev 14:11 because it is specific to the ones that take the mark. Rev 20:10 just talks about the beast, false prophet and devil. They may still try to say only those three will be tormented

[doctorh2005]

@kelleylemons

Thanks for your comment. I did consider REV.14:11 but they may say "but thats the old manuscripts; the latest manuscripts contain only "forever" and not "forever and ever".

So despite their argument (which does not stand) I looked through the latest manuscripts and picked out those verses which CLEARLY say "forever AND EVER".

Although... REV.14:11 does still say there will be torment forever and ever - and the Universalists say there will be NO eternal torment for ANYBODY.

[doctorh2005]

@101catsville

/// Feeling threatened doctorh2005? ///

Ad Hominem.

/// david1611kjv knows what he's talking about ///

Yes - he does know what what he's talking about is unscriptural, and that he's being irrational.

/// you and others like you just cant stand the fact that EVERYONE WILL BE SAVED! ///

Ad Hominem and Appeal to Emotion fallacy.

The question is not what people subjectively FEEL, but what Scripture OBJECTIVELY SAYS. And Scripture is against Universalism.

[matmicmj]

PEACE 

[doctorh2005]

@david1611kjv

/// if we were such a joke then you could do it conclusively in one or two videos ///

I have - for your information, you have STILL yet to have given a Biblical answer for REVELATION 5:9 and ACTS 15:14.

Stop avoiding your biggest problems which decimate Universalism! :-)

REVELATION 5:9 says...

Christ's atonement ransomed people for God "FROM" every tribe, and "FROM" every nation, and "FROM" every people and "FROM" every language.

Therefore, you are proved wrong.

[david1611kjv]

@doctorh2005 "Christ's atonement ransomed people for God "FROM" every tribe, and "FROM" every nation, and "FROM" every people and "FROM" every language.

Therefore, you are proved wrong."

on the contrary i will say this again and you really must look it up or you will continue to be blind.

a statement of fact is not a statement of limitation, Christ gave himself a randsom for all if you didnt notice, without the knowledge of fact and limitation quotes this is a clear contradiction cant you see?

[doctorh2005]

@david1611kjv

/// Christ gave himself a randsom for all ///

You missed two important words that complete the jigsaw...

The Word says....for all "WHO BELIEVE" [in this lifetime alone].

This is therefore not a contradiction.

IN FACT..... REVELATION 5:9 proves that not "all" will ultimately be saved - for to "TAKE FROM" something, you are not taking the WHOLE

Comprenday?

You are the blind one - and a laughable one aswell.

[doctorh2005]

To all youtube:

It is blatently obvious that youtube-user "david1611kjv" doesnt have the capacity or the maturity to engage in rational dialogue as all he has to support his Universalism is his own wild imagination, fallacious arguements, Ad Hominems, bogus websites created by people who dont even have half a brain between them, and his own biased man-centred "opinion".

Whereas, I have the Word of God, which clearly trumps all of his arguements put together.

Who is on the Lord's side???

[doctorh2005]

@david1611kjv

/// see hebrews 9;26 and compare with matthew13;39-40 ///

HEB.9:26 is figurative for "in eternity" - (which is "outside" our human perception of time).

MATT.13:39-40 actually SUPPORTS what I just said - that there are only TWO ages/dispensations.... "THIS age", and "the age TO COME". The first is refering to this present wicked world where sin and Satan abound. The second refers to after the Judgement, when the wicked are cast into the lake of fire and sin is retributed.

[david1611kjv]

"Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has "no forgiveness either in THIS AGE or the AGE TO COME" - thats another proof against Universalism.".....yeah suuuuuure it is............you are just blabbering nonsense, if you would read your bible a little closer then it will tell you that the ages COME TO AN END!.........if this was an unpardonable sin then it would read "in this age or the ages to come, and even after the ages".doh!!!!silly you

[doctorh2005]

@david1611kjv

/// if you would read your bible a little closer then it will tell you that the ages COME TO AN END!.........///

What chapter and verse states that?????

[doctorh2005]

@david1611kjv

/// if this was an unpardonable sin then it would read "in this age or the ages to come, and even after the ages" ///

Nope.

There are only "2" ages.... "This age" and "the age to come".

Jesus described "this age" as evil, wicked and where death abounds.... But He described "the age to come" as "ETERNAL".

All the other references to "ages and ages" are simply FIGURATIVE, and not literal.

Gotchya!

[david1611kjv]

if you think that universalism hangs on this one phrase and concept then you are most definetely mistaken, mistranslations are one thing, but the plainness of scripture is quite another..."every knee will bow and every toungue will confess jesus as lord to the glory of the father, no man can confess but by the spirit of God, confession is made unto salvation" refute that Einstein

[doctorh2005]

@david1611kjv

/// mistranslations are one thing ///

Its not a mistranslation. The Greek phrase "eis tous aiōnas tōn aiōnōn" represents the "duration" of the torment. In all 11 other places where that phrase is used, it HAS to mean "forever and ever".

Sorry but that is just one stone you cannot lift.

[doctorh2005]

@david1611kjv

/// ..."every knee will bow and every toungue will confess jesus as lord to the glory of the father, no man can confess but by the spirit of God, confession is made unto salvation" ///

Equivocation.

"Salvific" Confession unto salvation happens only during THIS lifetime - not in the next.

"It is appointed for man to die once, and then will come the judgement" (HEBREWS 9:27)

"NOW is the favourable time, NOW is the day of Salvation [not in the next life]" (2CORINTH 6:2)

[david1611kjv]

@doctorh2005 ""Salvific" Confession unto salvation happens only during THIS lifetime"....what kind of unscriptural poppycock is this?...the scriptures you quote to substanciate this ridiculous statement say nothing of the sort....stop seeing something that is just not there

[doctorh2005]

@david1611kjv

/// the scriptures you quote to substanciate this ridiculous statement say nothing of the sort ///

Yep. they do.

TODAY is the day of salvation (not in the age to come).

Its appointed for man to die once, and then the judgement.

Btw.... Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit has "no forgiveness either in THIS AGE or the AGE TO COME" - thats another proof against Universalism.

Nowhere does it say that the "age to come" will end.

[luckybAdam]

very interesting