Physics, Metaphysics & the Consciousness Connection 8 of 18

[visionz0]

i think each super system is a sub system of a greater super system.. and therefore on some level is finite.. and fundamenatal on some level.. on the level of its sub systems it is fundamental but on the levels of its supersystems is finite...

[beshakim]

if consciousness is not infinite then what is ?

[twcjr44]

@beshakim

Finite. Like any rreal system.

[irchristo]

@beshakim lots of things are infinite. Infinite resides within the system of the physical. It is not intangible. You've got to spend some time on these. Your consciousness isn't even continuous, so why would you ask if it is infinite?

[visionz0]

@beshakim nothing... nothing lasts forever... nothing is infinite :)

[tatsumakisempyukaku]

Yeah, I don't see how consciousness is ultimately finite. If all there is- is consciousness then it would be infinite would it not? I can see how relative to me it's finite but at it's source, I don't know.

[CottoFan1]

This sub system stuff sounds a like the teachings of kabbalah

[elvnsword]

@CottoFan1

I agree, there are a lot of teachings in the Kabbalah that this sounds very similar too... As well as the Collective Unconcious projection of Reality concept currently lauded by Wicca...

Added together you kinda get here...

[gilly1974]

thank you for posting this lovely lecture

[littlebones666]

I was enjoying this talk until he began to abuse the theory of evolution to further his propositons. Explaining evolution in terms of conscious choices boarders on plain ignorance. Im prepared to overlook this for the timebeing and watch the rest of the lecture, but it has cast a shadow of incredulity on the work thus far.

[lacrosse8097]

@ClubTropicanaPlease

Single cells do have awareness, they interact with their environment, reproduce, adapt to their environment, just like any other organism. The planet Earth has an awareness as well... do some research. I would list links and such but I am dedicating my time to my knowledge, as I have way too many links to go through.

[idiocracy101]

well it's his theory, he's spent time and effort trying to prove it, I would call you a moron by calling him a moron, but that wouldn't make me better than you.

I did lose a little respect for him when he said a few things, which is why i look at his ideas as plain theories and thoughts, perhaps more than educated ones. That's all. DOn't insult him for relating the evolution of conciousness to a binary system. It could as well be possible, but perhaps improbable.

[atessmann]

The idea of a divine spark in the mind of each person, which is present in every religion of the world, is not so wrong then. It is like a radio transmitter or gate to connect a subsystem to the major one. Makes sense. You need to go over your senses to experience the other realms. "The Kingdom of Heaven is within you".

[3gyptianFlo]

"it just don't matter" loool

[MidnightDC696969]

infinity exists within the finate structure...

theres my 2cents =)

[samann95014]

"We all live in different virtual digital realities which are slightly different from each other's. This is what few parallel realities are & each observer in each of these realities is nobody but me" ... - Sam Ann 95014 :)

[idiocracy101]

where did you get this reference from exactly? I have believed that we're all one conciousness experiencing itself subjectively but haven't really been able to understand it more profoundly. Get back to me.

[idiocracy101]

ah, just realized you were quoting yourself. nice!

[IbringUnderstanding]

here is the the only truth. You are what you think rather than what you eat. your body is what you eat but thats your body and not you. a finite system makes less sense than infinty. with out infinity you cant have a boundary and within a boundary infinity is present. call it fractal if u like but fractal is a coined word to deal with infinity. the same regression he speaks of in finding origins also occurs with finding a boundary. There is something outside the boundary.

[7051matt]

Thanks for the answers Tom. Much appreciated.

You say the data is real, and data is just information.

So consciousness is creating simulations out of information and then processing, experiencing and learning about them as if it is un aware of their origins to make them seem as real as possible?

That really does seem like a game is being played. To see what will actually happen rather than just knowing what the different possibilities or probabilities are.

[twcjr44]

The larger consciousness system is creating simulations out of information and then letting very limited subsets of itself experience these virtual realities in order to exercise their free will intents in the hopes of lowering their entropy (evolving). As they evolve, the entire system evolves. To optimize the learning environment, these subsets start each incarnation with no intellectual awareness of the larger system or of previous incarnations.

[7051matt]

You say consciousness must be finite because it is a real system and all real systems are finite.

You also say that consciousness is the only thing that is fundamentally real.

Therefore it is the only real system. so a comparison to another system is not possible as they are all an illusion.

[twcjr44]

Consciousness is a finite real system. It is the only thing that is real. All reality frames are virtual -- i.e., data. The data is real. The realities (simulations) the data create are virtual.

[whitewalls1222]

@twcjr44 how is consciousness finite? does that mean one day there will be nothing but oblivion?

[7051matt]

The 2nd assumption is that consciousness evolves, and that is based on the fact we see evolution all around us.

Everything around us including our individual selves is an illusion, therefore not a very stable thing to base such a large assumption on.

[twcjr44]

The second assumption is not based on the evolution of physical systems. Evolution, is a fundamental principal based on the fact that self-modifying systems having criteria that defines the systems goal, modify themselves to meet that goal. Self modifying virtual systems such as our physical reality are not exceptions.

We say that the physical objective reality is "illusion" because it is virtual (digital simulation) but the data that creates it the virtual reality -- is as real as real gets.

[7051matt]

Is consciousness finite in terms of time or did consciousness create time? if so it would be timeless and therefore infinite with regards to time.

Or is it just finite in terms of capacity and ability?

It seems to me that something must be infinite (in terms of time) because if at any point there was absolutely nothing then there would always be nothing because you can't get something from nothing.

Or am I wrong?

[AeroLynda123]

Here is an excellent example of what I am saying. "We are an indivuated unit of Consciouness" just like NDW says each human is an individuation of God. "Everything is an expression of Consciousness" - everything is an expression of God. We are one with all that is. All that is is God. Just my beliefs, I don't expect anyone else to agree. But I have been waiting all my life for the marriage of science & spirituality, and thanks to your work, I am more optimistic than ever that it's almost here!

[twcjr44]

Dream and dreamer work for me -- they are less precise and thus deliver fewer logical consequences, but there is nothing wrong with picking your own metaphor.

[whitenightf3]

This is what the Gnostics taught. Tom you should team up with Sheldrake, Lipton and Schwartzs and Josephson et al

I don't like the idea that we are in a simulation although I understand that we are the programmer.

I prefer to think in terms of Dream and Dreamer we are I AM!

[piwacket33]

why does it HAVE to be finite?

[twcjr44]

There is no such thing as infinite -- that is a mathematical abstrasction that can only be approached but never reached. An infinite real system is logically impossible.

[twcjr44]

I agree completely. Though the larger consciousness system must be finite, it appears infinite, Immeasurable, and limitless to us because of our limitations.  I agree entirely.

[trzalica]

I'm having trouble with finite/infinite concepts.

I remember when I was a kid, and I was asking myself - How large is universe, infinity was... hard answer. But, if it's in something(finite) in what that something is ? And how many 'somethings' are. Infinite number ?

So .. is it possible, that consciousness itself is 'in something'(another system) .. ?

[twcjr44]

Yes, that is possible -- exactly what it might be, if anything, is hard to know because one would have to get out of (go beyond) consciousness to experience it -- since we are consciousness, that is problematical. This is all discussed in the books.

[INFINITEconscious]

Finite - Having bounds or limits; not infinite; measurable.

The human mind cannot fathom consciousness in its entirety, therefore to us, it is infinite, Immeasurable, limitless, and forever will be.

[12thDecember]

Finite consciousness? As in Consciousness per se, or consciousness as we experience it in our virtual reality?

I can accept that the consciousness we share on Earth is finite, but if our shared finite consciousness is part of an even greater Consciousness beyond our realm and it is composed of many consciousness realms, then I can imagine Consciousness extending into infinity with never-ending expansion.

By the way, stomach bacteria do exist; Helicobacter pylori is one of them.

[twcjr44]

Well, there goes a favorite analogy of mine further down the tube -- Bummers! The little wimps can't stand the acid, huh? Id switch my analogy to the colon but those little guys down there have a reputation for not being very bright or mature -- the way I hear it , they are always trying to produce gas at the most inopportune moments because they think its funny. Somehow I just dont belive the concept of a brilliant colonic bacterium is gonna work.

[AeroLynda123]

I think you missed your calling, Tom. You are a comedian at heart. Gotta love that scatalogical humor. Glad to see I have someone new to blame (colonic bacteria), I usually blame it on my dog :)

[rayanneflowers]

bacteria can't exist inside the stomach....

they live in the colon

[TheProdigySupreme]

wrong

[rayanneflowers]

what the-

[Mnyamhotep]

Enlightening and Insightful , I like that

[relV6]

I love this big toe

[yesokdogod123]

reality is just a refrace point in the joke.

[97pattan]

this clip is the substance

[eman737]

makes so much sense